Q&A with Praetorian - National Level Competitor

[MuSuLPhReAk]

He will be first to have a thread in the Q&A section. Let's see how this goes :)

[Tiamat]

Can you tell us a bit about yourself?

[ironwill]

from the other thread.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praetorian
Well everyone has to learn...the easy way or the hard way i guess. Trust me when i tell you BB is a simple endeavour...train like a machine albeit correctly, eat like a machine, get adequate rest, and run a decent cycle. Youll notice that i put cycle last...because it is the least important. Guys who make the cycle the most important thing always fail!! There is no magic in BB its called genetics and work ethic. Without these it really makes little difference what drugs you are using period! You have a decent physique and you can improve dramatically but its not going to be because you started slin pre workout LOL. A simple offseason cycle such as this will give you optimum growth:
1-8 test C 250mg EOD
1-8 deca 150mg EOD
9-16 test E 250mg EOD
9-16 tren ace 100mg EOD
1-16 GH 6-8 iu ED
1-16 Slin 8iu am, 8iu post workout (if needed)
PCT including GH, HCG, Aromasin, Clomid

Thats about as complicated as it gets.
Diet should be 7-8 meals daily 50g pro+50g carbs+20g fat
Training 5 days per week 1 bodypart per day
Constantly improve your strength...ie aim for triple 5's...500 bench, 500 deads, 500 squat all for reps...it will take some time but thats your goal.
P




Thanks Prae...I appreciate it....I will do pretty much the same cycle as you posted, minus the tren as i really dont handle it well, i break out like a mofo, and feel like garbage. I will add in the deca, i was going to do test only, when i do this cycle it will be by far my biggest to date, wanted to do my first show on fairly low dose to see if i could even hold my own before delving deeper, i did ok, so up a notch........
Im on pct now and then a few weeks of pcr, then back on....will be 12 weeks pcr, and pct collectively...The cycle always has been and will be last on my list as well, i didnt even start aas until a few yrs ago..
I do realize that it is simple, eat lift rest repeat...My biggest problem is my career...i am managing that much better this yr, so im hoping for the best..
the meal plan you made out is exactly what i am doing now and will do all off season, 50,50,20....
my lifts on squats are in the mid-hi 500s, deads the same, my chest will have a hard time getting in the 500s, i can do 400s, but jeebus, 500s??? I dont know if i can, but i will try...
1 question, how would dbol work about 5-6 weeks into my cycle for 5-6 weeks length of time??
Thanks again, i appreciate it...
I realize there is no magic bullets, but i need to do better, and im looking for all the tools i can, not meaning drugs either..
Ill be in touch when ive put on the mass, for help cutting...for sure..


QUESTION....should my foods stay relatively the same all off season, or should i switch up the carb sources, and protein sources etc????
use extra fats such as olive oils and fish oils etc, and how many shakes with protein are optimal to consume, or does it make a difference??

[ironwill]

Thank-you for doing this for us Praetorian....appreciated immensely..

[Praetorian]

Thanks MP...here is a brief introduction:

I began serious training in 1987 at 19 years old 5'11 and 175lbs lean...I hit 200lbs after 6 months training and 240lbs by 1993 all with out the aid of any aas etc. at that point I contemplated competing and decided I may have a chance to do well. After my fist cycle I hit 275lbs and did my first competition in 1996 winning the heavyweight and overall title. I started in PL but moved to my passion BB after a few years. My best lifts in the gym are 585lb bench press, 705lb deadlift and 748lb squat at 275lbs....the deadlift was done at 225lbs...all raw lifts.I have competed on and off since then and took 3rd at the Nationals in 2008. I am preparing for the Nationals 2010 and the North Americans as well. I have trained alongside word class powerlifters, IFBB Pro bodybuilders and National level BB as well. I have been doing Physique coaching for the last 10 years. I have lived in The Mecca training at Golds as well as In San Diego Pacific Beach Golds and Las Vegas as well. I have friends who are IFBB Pros as well as many contacts in the sport.
At 41 years old I do have vast pool of knowledge but I am the first to admit I am still learning and will continue to do so as long as the passion to lift is there.
I welcome your questions and will do my best to answer them concisely and accurately.
P

[tiramisu]

woo hoo...


I'm in my 4rth week of 8 of PCT.
How should I organize my macros and cardio to sustain gains and break 10% bf?

Over the last couple of months as I tapered off and then entered PCT my weight and body comp have been depressingly stable although I can see small but visible improvements in definition in the mirror/pictures

I've been eating 1.5-2 grams of protein and just (2 weeks) switched to doing short intense workouts (Transitioning to a DC Template) and 1 hour of low intensity cardio 4 days a week.

I was doing 20 minute sessions of cardio previously and am hoping the additional volume will help without burning off the muscle.

220 pounds @ ~12% using the calipers, 42 years.
Coming off of 20/16 weeks of test/tren
8 week pct - nolva 40/40/20/20
HCG pre pct

[Praetorian]

QUESTION....should my foods stay relatively the same all off season, or should i switch up the carb sources, and protein sources etc????
use extra fats such as olive oils and fish oils etc, and how many shakes with protein are optimal to consume, or does it make a difference??

YES THE SAME FOOD CAN BE USED...JUST ADD IN MORE CARBS START WITH 30G PER MEAL AND WORK YOUR WAY UP TO ABOUT 50-60. I WOULD TRY FOR 3-4 MEAL AND 3-4 SHAKES GIVE OR TAKE. MAKE SURE TO GET YOUR ESENTIAL FATS...TRY TO KEEP FATS TO 20G PER MEAL OR SO.
p

[Praetorian]

I'm in my 4rth week of 8 of PCT.
How should I organize my macros and cardio to sustain gains and break 10% bf?

CARDIO SHOULD BE LIMITED DURING PCT...6 MEALS PER DAY JUST LIKE DIETING JUST INCREASE CARB INTAKE TO ABOUT 30G PER MEAL.
50G PRO-30G CARBS-20G FAT
p

[Praetorian]

1 question, how would dbol work about 5-6 weeks into my cycle for 5-6 weeks length of time??

YOU CAN START IT WEEK 4-5...AS LONG AS IT DOESNT KILL YOUR APPETITE.
P

[tiramisu]

I'm in my 4rth week of 8 of PCT.
How should I organize my macros and cardio to sustain gains and break 10% bf?

CARDIO SHOULD BE LIMITED DURING PCT...6 MEALS PER DAY JUST LIKE DIETING JUST INCREASE CARB INTAKE TO ABOUT 30G PER MEAL.
50G PRO-30G CARBS-20G FAT
p

Thanks a lot, that's the opposite of what I was thinking. I wouldn't have considered dropping my calories to 2080. I was worried that the calorie deficit through diet would make my body want to eat muscle and that using cardio would let me keep the calories up while increasing my metabolism/burn rate.

It's interesting that I've got it back asswards. Are you able to tell me why or is it the result of trying both and having seen the results?

thanks again.

[daande]

I have a question:

I feel like my back and shoulders are my two lagging body parts..I have a big chest/arms/legs..Could you please give us a sample of how I can make my shoulders and back bigger?

[Praetorian]

Thanks a lot, that's the opposite of what I was thinking. I wouldn't have considered dropping my calories to 2080. I was worried that the calorie deficit through diet would make my body want to eat muscle and that using cardio would let me keep the calories up while increasing my metabolism/burn rate.

It's interesting that I've got it back asswards. Are you able to tell me why or is it the result of trying both and having seen the results?

thanks again.

JUST AN FYI...YOU SHOULDNT BE TRYING TO LEAN OUT DURING PCT...THAT IS A MISTAKE THAT COULD COST YOU MUSCLE...PCT IS A TIME TO RECOVER...NOT GAIN...NOT LOSE.
P

[Praetorian]

I have a question:

I feel like my back and shoulders are my two lagging body parts..I have a big chest/arms/legs..Could you please give us a sample of how I can make my shoulders and back bigger?

YOU NEED TO PRIORITIZE THESE BODY PARTS...THUS DO THEM FIRST IN THE WEEK WHEN YOU HAVE THE MOST ENERGY. ALSO BACK IS A TOUGH MUSCLE BECAUSE YOU NEED A GOOD MIND MUSCLE CONNECTION...YOU CANNOT SEE IT LIKE CHEST ETC. YOU NEED TO PULL FROM THE ELBOWS...INSTEAD OF THE HANDS.
CONCENTRATE ON THE BASICS AS WELL...DEADS, BENT ROWS, CHINS THESE WILL BUILD POWER AND SIZE. DELTS NEED TO BE TRAINED WITH A PRESSING MOVEMENT AND A LATERAL RAISE TYPE MOVEMENT. I ALWAYS WORK A COMPOUND MOVEMENT FIRST THEN MOVE ON TO THE MORE ISOLATION TYPE MOVEMENT. SEATED MILITARY PRESSES THEN LATERAL RAISES.
P

[daande]

Thanks for This Mp, and Praetorian . This is a cool idea!

Very good idea!

[C-money]

Hey P what your view on cheat meals/refeeds.. especially when a guy is around 8% bf? Should they be avoided for maximum results? Or do you feel that they are needed to get max results? Thanks bro!

[GYMBRAT]

Thanks for This Mp, and Praetorian . This is a cool idea!

YES! This is an AWESOME idea, it's like having a pro trainer in your own living room...

[GYMBRAT]

wtf happed there, oops

[GYMBRAT]

do you agree with the idea of getting up in the middle of the night for a shake or some sort of protein source?

thanks P

[Praetorian]

Hey P what your view on cheat meals/refeeds.. especially when a guy is around 8% bf? Should they be avoided for maximum results? Or do you feel that they are needed to get max results? Thanks bro!


IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE DIET YOU USE AND THE TIMING. CHEAT IS A BAD TERM AS WELL AS IT INVOKES GUILT...REFEED IS BETTER. THE REFEED MEAL ON A KETO DIET IS ESSENTIAL TO RAISE T4 TO T3 CONVERSION...AS WELL IT HELPS KEEP YOU SANE AND HELPS FILL GLYCOGEN STORES FOR TRAINING. I WOULD ELIMINATE IT THE LAST FEW WEEKS HOWEVER.
P

[Praetorian]

do you agree with the idea of getting up in the middle of the night for a shake or some sort of protein source?

thanks P
NOT REALLY...I THINK 8 SOLID HOURS OF SLEEP IS MORE IMPORTANT. IVE DONE IT IN THE PAST BUT DIDNT SEE MUCH IMPROVEMENT SO I DONT DO IT ANYMORE.
P

[C-money]

IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE DIET YOU USE AND THE TIMING. CHEAT IS A BAD TERM AS WELL AS IT INVOKES GUILT...REFEED IS BETTER. THE REFEED MEAL ON A KETO DIET IS ESSENTIAL TO RAISE T4 TO T3 CONVERSION...AS WELL IT HELPS KEEP YOU SANE AND HELPS FILL GLYCOGEN STORES FOR TRAINING. I WOULD ELIMINATE IT THE LAST FEW WEEKS HOWEVER.
P


Thanks bro, im doing a modified palumbo diet this time around. would you recommend keeping it clean as possible, like lots of oats and fruits, or do you think pizza/pastas, chocolate is acceptable? Thanks again

[nisser]

What's your opinion on HCG use? Use during cycle with what kind of dosage or at the end? If one were to use it at the end of a cycle with short esters test prop/tren A (where there's no lag between clomid/nolva use), how would you administer it?

[Praetorian]

Thanks bro, im doing a modified palumbo diet this time around. would you recommend keeping it clean as possible, like lots of oats and fruits, or do you think pizza/pastas, chocolate is acceptable? Thanks again

IF YOU ARE TALKING CHEAT MEAL...I TRY TO KEEP IT MOSTLY CARBS..IE PANCAKES WITH BUTTER AND SYRUP, WHIPPED CREAM AND STRAWBERRIES, PASTA WITH MEAT SAUCE AND CAKE AND ICE CREAM FOR DESERT. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THE CARBS...THEN GET IN YOUR PROTEIN AND LASTLY A IT OF FAT...TOO MUCH FAT AND YOU CANT EAT ENOUGH CARBS...IE PIZZA ISNT A GOOD CHOICE.
P

[Praetorian]

What's your opinion on HCG use? Use during cycle with what kind of dosage or at the end? If one were to use it at the end of a cycle with short esters test prop/tren A (where there's no lag between clomid/nolva use), how would you administer it?

DURING THE CYCLE IS FINE TO KEEP THE TESTES SENSITIZED TO LH. FOR LONG ER AND STRONGER CYCLE YOU WILL NEED IT AT THE END BECAUSE CLOMID/NOLVADEX WILL NOT STIMULATE ENOUGH LH TO KICKSTART THE TESTES. WITH LONG ESTER DROP EVERYTHING BUT 500MG PER WEEK TEST. START HCG 1 WEEK AFTER LAST TEST SHOT 2000IU EOD FOR TWO WEEKS THEN START CLOMID. RUN AN AI CONCURRENTLY. FOR SHORT ESTER DROP EVERYTHING BUT TEST KEEP IT TO ABOUT 300MG PER WEEK AND START HCG IMMEDIATELY AFTER LAST TEST SHOT. SAME CYCLE AS ABOVE.
P

[L3]

DURING THE CYCLE IS FINE TO KEEP THE TESTES SENSITIZED TO LH.

if this is the dosing protocol we took, is there a need for the large doses of HCG at the end of cycle?

if a large dose is needed, will that be used while SERM & AI are in the system, or can we start the SERM&AI three days after the "big" HCG shot (as i planned)

[Praetorian]

if this is the dosing protocol we took, is there a need for the large doses of HCG at the end of cycle?

if a large dose is needed, will that be used while SERM & AI are in the system, or can we start the SERM&AI three days after the "big" HCG shot (as i planned)

THATS VERY INDIVIDUALISITIC...IVE RUN 500IU TWICE DAILY WHILE ON CYCLE AND STILL REQUIRED 2000IU EOD TO RECOVER...BUT I WAS 40 AT THE TIME...SOMEONE YOUNGER MAY NOT.
P

[JonnyO]

IF YOU ARE TALKING CHEAT MEAL...I TRY TO KEEP IT MOSTLY CARBS..IE PANCAKES WITH BUTTER AND SYRUP, WHIPPED CREAM AND STRAWBERRIES, PASTA WITH MEAT SAUCE AND CAKE AND ICE CREAM FOR DESERT. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THE CARBS...THEN GET IN YOUR PROTEIN AND LASTLY A IT OF FAT...TOO MUCH FAT AND YOU CANT EAT ENOUGH CARBS...IE PIZZA ISNT A GOOD CHOICE.
P

If on a Keto diet, how many days would you suggest going keto and how many for refeed?

Also what about fat intake for the refeed days/s?

And lastly how many grams of carbs would you recommend per lb of bodyweight for the refeed day/s?

[Praetorian]

If on a Keto diet, how many days would you suggest going keto and how many for refeed?

Also what about fat intake for the refeed days/s?

And lastly how many grams of carbs would you recommend per lb of bodyweight for the refeed day/s?

A SINGLE REFEED MEAL, A REFEED DAY IS TOO MUCH...IT WILL SOW FAT LOSS

FAT INTAKE IS LOW ON REFEED MEAL

400-500 FOR THE MEAL DEPENDING ON THE INDIVIDUAL

P

[daande]

IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE DIET YOU USE AND THE TIMING. CHEAT IS A BAD TERM AS WELL AS IT INVOKES GUILT...REFEED IS BETTER. THE REFEED MEAL ON A KETO DIET IS ESSENTIAL TO RAISE T4 TO T3 CONVERSION...AS WELL IT HELPS KEEP YOU SANE AND HELPS FILL GLYCOGEN STORES FOR TRAINING. I WOULD ELIMINATE IT THE LAST FEW WEEKS HOWEVER.
P

What are your favorite things to eat on a "refeed" meal? Could you give us a sample of what you would refeed with?

[#8]

Why do you recommend switching test esters (test E / test C) halfway through the cycle?

what benefit does this have over running the same one all the way through?

[Praetorian]

Why do you recommend switching test esters (test E / test C) halfway through the cycle?

what benefit does this have over running the same one all the way through?

THE BODY ADAPTS TO DRUGS OVER TIME...IT MAY JUST BE PARANOIA...BUT I LIKE TO CHANGE THINGS UP EVERY 8 WEEKS.
P

[JonnyO]

A SINGLE REFEED MEAL, A REFEED DAY IS TOO MUCH...IT WILL SOW FAT LOSS

FAT INTAKE IS LOW ON REFEED MEAL

400-500 FOR THE MEAL DEPENDING ON THE INDIVIDUAL

P

How about when someone is using the keto diet to maintain or not necessarily fat loss as a primary goal?

[daande]

What would be a good bulking cycle for someone who wanted to stay away from nandrolones such as deca and tren?

[Praetorian]

How about when someone is using the keto diet to maintain or not necessarily fat loss as a primary goal?

IF YOU WERE MAINTAINING YOU SHOULDNT BE IN KETOSIS YOUD BE EATING SOME CARBS.
P

[Praetorian]

What would be a good bulking cycle for someone who wanted to stay away from nandrolones such as deca and tren?

IF EQ IS TOLERABLE...

250MG TEST E EOD
150-200MG EQ EOD
P

[tiramisu]

Do you include PCT in your cycles or do you use hrt/cruise dosages of test in between or C) other?

[z83]

could you give us an example of what you eat during the day ?

[JonnyO]

IF YOU WERE MAINTAINING YOU SHOULDNT BE IN KETOSIS YOUD BE EATING SOME CARBS.
P

Could someone utilize a Keto diet say 5 days on, then a full 2 days refeed of 1000g carbs per day, do you think one could make gains on a program as such?

[GYMBRAT]

NOT REALLY...I THINK 8 SOLID HOURS OF SLEEP IS MORE IMPORTANT. IVE DONE IT IN THE PAST BUT DIDNT SEE MUCH IMPROVEMENT SO I DONT DO IT ANYMORE.
P

Hey thanks a bunch P, your gonna get bombarded with questions lol :popc2

[Praetorian]

Do you include PCT in your cycles or do you use hrt/cruise dosages of test in between or C) other?

I NEVER CRUISE OR BRIDGE...IM ON OR OFF THATS IT.
SO YES PCT IS NECESSARY.
P

[Praetorian]

could you give us an example of what you eat during the day ?

6-8 MEALS PER DAY...50G PRO + 50G CARBS + 20G FAT A VARIETY OF PROTEIN SOURCES CHICKEN BREAST, STEAK, EGGS, LEAN GROUND BEEF, SALMON, WHEY ISOLATE, ETC CARB SOURCES INLCUDE POTATOE, RICE, PASTA, WHOLE WHEAT BREAD, OATMEAL, WAXY MAIZE
P

[Praetorian]

Could someone utilize a Keto diet say 5 days on, then a full 2 days refeed of 1000g carbs per day, do you think one could make gains on a program as such?

THE GAINS WOULD BE MINIMAL...YOU NEED CARBS TO GROW...INSULIN IS NECESSARY(ENDOGENOUS)
P

[Praetorian]

Hey thanks a bunch P, your gonna get bombarded with questions lol :popc2

NO PROBLEMO.
P

[Big D]

this is a great Idea thanks for doing this P.

I have a question

i've been eating 7 meals/day

50g pro + 50g carb + 10g fat

my source of protein is eggs whites and whey isolate and my carbs are oats and my fats is olive oil,

just wondering do you see anything wrong with that ?

[SteveKing]

WHO ARE YOU?

[Sean Summers]

I have a question

i've been eating 7 meals/day

50g pro + 50g carb + 10g fat

my source of protein is eggs whites and whey isolate and my carbs are oats and my fats is olive oil,

just wondering do you see anything wrong with that ?


Where's the BEEF????
SS

[L3]

P, how would you train around a knee injury?




Where's the BEEF????
SS

i think its safe to say if Big D wanted your input he would have posted in the "Q& A with Sean Summers" thread

[O-Train]

What style of training do you use? Volume, high intensity etc... set/rep scheme, split?

Any suggestions on improving chest development. I've always been weak on pressing movements involving the chest.

[Praetorian]

Where's the BEEF????
SS

Great point SS!!
P

[Praetorian]

What style of training do you use? Volume, high intensity etc... set/rep scheme, split?

Any suggestions on improving chest development. I've always been weak on pressing movements involving the chest.

I train high intensity lower volume. Large muscle groups 4 execises 2-3 working sets, smaller muscle groups 3 exercises 2-3 working sets.

To improve chest development you need to really master correct pressing technique especially bench pressing. Once you do this you can carry it over to other exercises like dumbbells etc.
P

[Ritch]

Sweet thread! Props to P for giving us his time here.

[Praetorian]

[QUOTE=legaliz3;221638]P, how would you train around a knee injury?


First off you need a correct diagnosis of the issue at hand. Once this is done you can construct your training around that. Because there are a variety of knee problems that can occur the training would be specific to the type of injury.
Sometime rest is required prior to any training.
P

[Skyblob]

Hey bro! btw thanks for you help ;)

My question is ... I am on 9 weeks of Test P and Tren A (100/90) *dosage* .. and its been 1 week im off of tren a.. can i loose muscle if im only on test P? Btw im on a CKD diet. Although.. my strength is the same but im less defined and less full without tren.. in the mirror i look less muscular .. is it because tren keeps you full or idk ? and is it ok to continue CKD with only 100mg test EOD without tren?

Thanks :)

[C-money]

K P, my mouth tastes really sweet these last few days... and im guessing thats telling me im in ketosis(ive had this taste before when i got shredded)... Last night I had a carb up/refeed day and ate lots of oats with honey.. woke up this morning and mouth still tasting very sweet... am i still in ketosis you think? My cheat wasent crazy filled with junk and sugar. Thanks again brah!

[Praetorian]

Hey bro! btw thanks for you help ;)

My question is ... I am on 9 weeks of Test P and Tren A (100/90) *dosage* .. and its been 1 week im off of tren a.. can i loose muscle if im only on test P? Btw im on a CKD diet. Although.. my strength is the same but im less defined and less full without tren.. in the mirror i look less muscular .. is it because tren keeps you full or idk ? and is it ok to continue CKD with only 100mg test EOD without tren?

Thanks :)

No you wont lose muscle ...you can relax. Without the tren you will look less defined and less full because it is a very strong androgen that doesnt aromatize. It is only cosmetic your leaness hasnt changed.
P

[Praetorian]

K P, my mouth tastes really sweet these last few days... and im guessing thats telling me im in ketosis(ive had this taste before when i got shredded)... Last night I had a carb up/refeed day and ate lots of oats with honey.. woke up this morning and mouth still tasting very sweet... am i still in ketosis you think? My cheat wasent crazy filled with junk and sugar. Thanks again brah!

Was it a refeed meal or refeed day? If it was a meal you woudl be back in ketosis...if it was a refeed day you wouldnt be.
P

[Sean Summers]

i think its safe to say if Big D wanted your input he would have posted in the "Q& A with Sean Summers" thread

Great. Here we go...another Internet tough guy.


Great point SS!!
I'm glad someone agrees.

Great thread Praetorian!

SS

[Skyblob]

No you wont lose muscle ...you can relax. Without the tren you will look less defined and less full because it is a very strong androgen that doesnt aromatize. It is only cosmetic your leaness hasnt changed.
P

Ight thanks bro ;)

[gustavo77]

I think i speak for all us when i say that your time and knowledge are invaluable Praetorian and we thank you for share both with us. I am learning a ton already.

Our training styles are very similar P: high intensity/moderate volume. That said what do believe to be the best rep range for muscle growth P?? I stick between 8-15 reps to failure and beyond due to my age and joint health but think i could handle a little lower rep range for short periods of time if i thought it was truly beneficial. What do you think??

[LIVEHARD]

Hey bro first thanks for your time !!!

I just switched gear mid cycle from 750mg Tenth to 800mg T400

I started off this cycle 8 weeks ago I started with 30mg dbol and a-dex .5 EOD the first 4 weeks i ran test at 500mg week

I have dropped the Dbol and the A-dex no sides feeling great getting the same consistent gains with the T400 as with the T/enth


My strength is still there and my libido is going crazy

Now that I'm off the D/bol the water is leaving my system fast

Anything i could have done better ??????????

[Vitamin S]

if someone is following palumbo keto diet , and its spot on to maintain lean body mass while shreddy just body fat, how much test enanthate as a standalone steroid or support system would one run if weighing in at 220lbs while starting diet?

would 500mg weekly be enough to maintain lean body mass?

also how soon out of a competition would you add (assuming this is all u had to play with) masteron, var, tren, winny, halo, proviron etc to give the body that hard dense full look?

thanks.

[Big D]

Great. Here we go...another Internet tough guy.


SS

hahahah ya SS I was asking P.. :p

kidding

i'm happy taking advise from P or SS they're both top notch in my book.

[BAM]

This is a great and with that said..

These pearls of wisdom might be more easily navigated if each question was a different thread in Praetorian FAQ forum otherwise this thread will grow way too large and also it would allow others to chime in with further questions on said topic in an organized fashion. Maybe that is too much work.. (shrug).

Just throwing that out there.

[Praetorian]

Hey bro first thanks for your time !!!

I just switched gear mid cycle from 750mg Tenth to 800mg T400

I started off this cycle 8 weeks ago I started with 30mg dbol and a-dex .5 EOD the first 4 weeks i ran test at 500mg week

I have dropped the Dbol and the A-dex no sides feeling great getting the same consistent gains with the T400 as with the T/enth


My strength is still there and my libido is going crazy

Now that I'm off the D/bol the water is leaving my system fast

Anything i could have done better ??????????

The only thing Iwould have done differently is star the dbol 4-5 weeks in and th etest at 750mg. Also i wouldnt use an AI unless I was actuallly experiencing estro sides. Otherwise it seems like its working fine.
P

[Praetorian]

if someone is following palumbo keto diet , and its spot on to maintain lean body mass while shreddy just body fat, how much test enanthate as a standalone steroid or support system would one run if weighing in at 220lbs while starting diet?

would 500mg weekly be enough to maintain lean body mass?

also how soon out of a competition would you add (assuming this is all u had to play with) masteron, var, tren, winny, halo, proviron etc to give the body that hard dense full look?

thanks.

500mg weekly is fine to maintain muscle.
Masteron 4 weeks out
var redundant and unnecessary
tren 8 weeks out
winny 6 weeks out
halo 3 weeks out
proviron redundant and unnecessary (use an AI)

P

[L3]

P, any truth to using preparation-H on abdominals to reduce subcutaneous water retention?


Great. Here we go...another Internet tough guy.

my bad, didn't realise that competitive bb'ers are excused from trolling. :puff

[Vitamin S]

on dave's diet he recommends using a fiber supp like his fiberlyze. its a bit expense for the amount of servings but very low in carbs. now if i use benefiber or metamucil in my shakes will the amount of carbs in there say 6-8g of carbs per each serving through me out of ketosis?

i am only taking it with my first and last shake of the day.

[Praetorian]

P, any truth to using preparation-H on abdominals to reduce subcutaneous water retention?


my bad, didn't realise that competitive bb'ers are excused from trolling. :puff

Thats a last grasp at straws...will do very little. By a week out you should be pealed and dry...dropping water is a very fine adjustment...not a break the dam and let it flow type thing. A few pounds at best...if you are dropping alot of weight from water its coming from intracellular water...NOT what you want.
Prep H , epsom salt baths, etc are all last minute panic
P

[Praetorian]

on dave's diet he recommends using a fiber supp like his fiberlyze. its a bit expense for the amount of servings but very low in carbs. now if i use benefiber or metamucil in my shakes will the amount of carbs in there say 6-8g of carbs per each serving through me out of ketosis?

i am only taking it with my first and last shake of the day.

Sugar free benfibre or metamucil are fine if they work for you.
P

[Vitamin S]

general fat loss cardio question.

the two best times to do cardio are fasted first thing in morning so body taps into fat stores esp if your heart rate is kept to 120bpm or post workout when glycogen is low say after 40-60mins of intense training.

i have always wondered this scenario below

you were not able to do morning cardio, you ate like shit all day, and you go go the gym in evening to do low intensity cardio. how long does it take while doing cardio for your body to actually use up liver glycogen as fuel and then fat stores (fat stores is where the fat burning starts)

in another words if i was to do 1 hour cardio, how much would i tack on to make sure that the whole 1 hour cardio was done glycogen depleted? cauze otherwise no sense in doing it as im just burning of the days food i ate right?

thanks again for your inputs much appreciated.

[natenator]

on dave's diet he recommends using a fiber supp like his fiberlyze. its a bit expense for the amount of servings but very low in carbs. now if i use benefiber or metamucil in my shakes will the amount of carbs in there say 6-8g of carbs per each serving through me out of ketosis?

i am only taking it with my first and last shake of the day.
not to needlessly chime into P's thread but spend the $$ on fiberlyze. I've been using it for several months now (even when n ot on a keto diet) and feel it works better than anything else out there.

I ran out of fiberlyze and had to resort to metamucil and trust me when my gut says it NOTICED the change.

[Vitamin S]

dave palumbos says eca stacks or similar stimulants are not good for muscles, since they raise cortisol???

is this a concern when dieting ?? i mean most people say eca stack best tried and tested for fat loss and lots of competitors using it, will i notice lots of muscle loss if i use it, i was old ephedrine spares muscle?

[fathead]

if trying to get shredded.... how long should one be doing low intensity cardio for after training?

currently i do it in the am (40 minutes... fasted state) but have considered doing it post training (or perhaps both). it seems like 30+ minutes after training is a lot as im usually bagged and want to eat!

also is it ok to eat immediately after finishing your cardio or does this halt fat loss? thanks

[Praetorian]

general fat loss cardio question.

the two best times to do cardio are fasted first thing in morning so body taps into fat stores esp if your heart rate is kept to 120bpm or post workout when glycogen is low say after 40-60mins of intense training.

i have always wondered this scenario below

you were not able to do morning cardio, you ate like shit all day, and you go go the gym in evening to do low intensity cardio. how long does it take while doing cardio for your body to actually use up liver glycogen as fuel and then fat stores (fat stores is where the fat burning starts)

in another words if i was to do 1 hour cardio, how much would i tack on to make sure that the whole 1 hour cardio was done glycogen depleted? cauze otherwise no sense in doing it as im just burning of the days food i ate right?

thanks again for your inputs much appreciated.

Thats impossible to say, depends on many things...ie how many carbs you ate, how much glycogen you burned thru the day, how long you trained etc...if you cant do cardio morning and post workout do it when you can...just get it in...thats the best you can do. There is always sense in doing cardio if you are dieting...thats a BS excuse for being lazy!
P

[Praetorian]

dave palumbos says eca stacks or similar stimulants are not good for muscles, since they raise cortisol???

is this a concern when dieting ?? i mean most people say eca stack best tried and tested for fat loss and lots of competitors using it, will i notice lots of muscle loss if i use it, i was old ephedrine spares muscle?

Stimulants raise cortisol...the more you take the more cortisol youll get...and yes cortisol is catabolic...simple math. Yes they do help with fat loss but no where near the amount that clen does. They pale in comparison. As well you will become reliant on stimulants over time as your adrenal glands get over stimulated...eventually you will have to come off and trust me it wont be pretty.
P

[Praetorian]

if trying to get shredded.... how long should one be doing low intensity cardio for after training?

currently i do it in the am (40 minutes... fasted state) but have considered doing it post training (or perhaps both). it seems like 30+ minutes after training is a lot as im usually bagged and want to eat!

also is it ok to eat immediately after finishing your cardio or does this halt fat loss? thanks

Cardio is not static....you start at a certain level...say 30 min once a day and it gradually increases with time. Eventually youll be doing it 2-3 times per day to get shredded. Depending on your diet will determin cardio type ie low intensity or HIT or a combo of both. Yes eating after cardio is fine...it wont halt fat loss.
P

[Vitamin S]

if im eating 15grams of healthy fat with each meal, and forget to eat it with one meal can i double up on another meal in the case with palumbo keto diet? or is that bad and i should just go to next meal?

also i heard AI like arimidex will weeken immune system since they lower estrogen levels, any truth. what is a safe dosage of arimidex on cycle before the positives outway the negatives?

also if eca is not good and clen better, what can be done to prevent cramping while on clen?? what is the best way to take clen ie lenght, and dosage.

thanks again.

[natenator]

if im eating 15grams of healthy fat with each meal, and forget to eat it with one meal can i double up on another meal in the case with palumbo keto diet? or is that bad and i should just go to next meal?

also i heard AI like arimidex will weeken immune system since they lower estrogen levels, any truth. what is a safe dosage of arimidex on cycle before the positives outway the negatives?

also if eca is not good and clen better, what can be done to prevent cramping while on clen?? what is the best way to take clen ie lenght, and dosage.

thanks again.
lol are you using this question and answer period to try and get him to do your own prep program? Seems like it...

[C-money]

lol are you using this question and answer period to try and get him to do your own prep program? Seems like it...

That was my plan!:p jk......kinda

[ironwill]

on dave's diet he recommends using a fiber supp like his fiberlyze. its a bit expense for the amount of servings but very low in carbs. now if i use benefiber or metamucil in my shakes will the amount of carbs in there say 6-8g of carbs per each serving through me out of ketosis?

i am only taking it with my first and last shake of the day.

Metamucil kind of sucks, bad gas etc....benefiber isnt as bad, it is what CC and i used for prep, i havent tried fiberlyze so i cannot comment, but benefibre works great.....I am interested in what Prae has to say about benefibre, have you used P??

[Praetorian]

both benefibre and metamucil constipate me...fiberlyze has been a godsend...trust me ive tried everthing.
P

[ironwill]

both benefibre and metamucil constipate me...fiberlyze has been a godsend...trust me ive tried everthing.
P
Thanks P, i will purchase some........:)

[Praetorian]

if im eating 15grams of healthy fat with each meal, and forget to eat it with one meal can i double up on another meal in the case with palumbo keto diet? or is that bad and i should just go to next meal?

also i heard AI like arimidex will weeken immune system since they lower estrogen levels, any truth. what is a safe dosage of arimidex on cycle before the positives outway the negatives?

also if eca is not good and clen better, what can be done to prevent cramping while on clen?? what is the best way to take clen ie lenght, and dosage.

thanks again.

Dieting = not missing meals or whats in them...get better organized. Taurine and sugar free tonic water will help cramping...make sure u are having sodium as well. Use aromasin it doesnt affect hdl. ive posted clen dosing on cbb many times...do a search youll find it.
P

[daande]

Dieting = not missing meals or whats in them...get better organized. Taurine and sugar free tonic water will help cramping...make sure u are having sodium as well. Use aromasin it doesnt affect hdl. ive posted clen dosing on cbb many times...do a search youll find it.
P

I think youve posted it more than once for me haha.

[tex]

a lot of great info in this thread. thanks Pre!!!!! This is exactly what we need on this site!

[Vitamin S]

this is really great, a person of your knowledge able to help others out thanks man.

1. when on palumbo diet, the refeed meal i was reading he says make it last meal of the day so you don't cheat again, as for the composition he says get all the carbs you can eat in first, then protein, then fats.

he also says it takes generally 3 days to get into strong ketosis, does that mean if i am refeeding sat i wont be using ketones for energy till monday or tuesday? this wouldn't slow fat loss down would it.

2. what is the minimum amount of days in between chest and shoulders one should take since they get smashed during chest for optimum shoulder workout.

3. when dieting is it okay to hit certain body parts twice a week to bring them up or is this not gonna happen in a caloric defecient.

thanks again

[nisser]

Are you a fan of multiple compounds at lower dosages or fewer at higher dosages? Which do you think works better or is it dependent on individuals? Would you do a test/deca/eq cycle at moderate dosages or test/deca at higher?

[Praetorian]

this is really great, a person of your knowledge able to help others out thanks man.

1. when on palumbo diet, the refeed meal i was reading he says make it last meal of the day so you don't cheat again, as for the composition he says get all the carbs you can eat in first, then protein, then fats. TRY TO GET 400G CARBS MAX

he also says it takes generally 3 days to get into strong ketosis, does that mean if i am refeeding sat i wont be using ketones for energy till monday or tuesday? this wouldn't slow fat loss down would it.72 HOURS INITIALLY WHEN YOU START THE DIET, 8 HOURS AFTER A CHEAT MEAL

2. what is the minimum amount of days in between chest and shoulders one should take since they get smashed during chest for optimum shoulder workout. AT LEAST 2 DAYS

3. when dieting is it okay to hit certain body parts twice a week to bring them up or is this not gonna happen in a caloric defecient. YOU ARENT BUIDLING MUSCLE WHEN DIETING PERIOD...SO NO SENSE IN THAT

thanks again

P

[Praetorian]

Are you a fan of multiple compounds at lower dosages or fewer at higher dosages? Which do you think works better or is it dependent on individuals? Would you do a test/deca/eq cycle at moderate dosages or test/deca at higher?

I believe in optimum dosages. The dose that produces the most gains and least sides. Lower dose cycling is an excuse for guys to think they are safer(NOT) and then they can also call other guys using higher doses abusers etc. "If i took that much I'd be huge like him too" biggest pussy excuse going. Take the proper amount or dont take any. Too low is not good because you still will see sides yet you get very little out of it...too high is no good because sides become health threatening.
Deca and EQ together is redundant...use one or the other. Keep things simple...test+deca/EQ/tren+maybe some dbol....perfect offseason if you cant grow on this I would suggest beach volley ball not BB.
P

[ironwill]

I believe in optimum dosages. The dose that produces the most gains and least sides. Lower dose cycling is an excuse for guys to think they are safer(NOT) and then they can also call other guys using higher doses abusers etc. "If i took that much I'd be huge like him too" biggest pussy excuse going. Take the proper amount or dont take any. Too low is not good because you still will see sides yet you get very little out of it...too high is no good because sides become health threatening.
Deca and EQ together is redundant...use one or the other. Keep things simple...test+deca/EQ/tren+maybe some dbol....perfect offseason if you cant grow on this I would suggest beach volley ball not BB.
P
What do you call to small of a dose??

[Praetorian]

What do you call to small of a dose??

Its depends on a variety of things...ie cycle history, body weight, age etc
But since you asked....250mg test weekly is too low for anything performance wise except HRT.
P

[nisser]

Why do you consider deca and eq redundant? EQ doesn't have any progesterone receptor interaction as far as I know.

[ironwill]

Its depends on a variety of things...ie cycle history, body weight, age etc
But since you asked....250mg test weekly is too low for anything performance wise except HRT.
P
cool, just making sure im not to low of a low...lol....
That would explain how i added quite a few lbs while dieting...I was at 200 or so mg per week for a couple of months before my prep started, trying to bridge because i was halfway through a prep and had to move and didnt have enough time to completely stop and restart, so i lowered doses as i said...Then when i went to my contest cycle (higher doses), i grew while dieting, like about 12 lbs i think when i finished and got way, way leaner...I was thinking that was why, but i figured super low dose was better than no dose, or to high for to long....
What woukld one do in a situation like that?? Moving because of career, halfway through prep, then another contest about 20 weeks away??
Stop everything, or Stay higher for a much longer duration, In case i get caught again??
Thanks in advance...:)

[Praetorian]

Why do you consider deca and eq redundant? EQ doesn't have any progesterone receptor interaction as far as I know.

Both produce very similar gains, a bit more water retention with deca, not so much with eq. Deca is a progestin but EQ will aromatize..about half as much as test. You can use them in the same cycle I just choose to use something more effective ie tren, dbol, etc
P

[Praetorian]

cool, just making sure im not to low of a low...lol....
That would explain how i added quite a few lbs while dieting...I was at 200 or so mg per week for a couple of months before my prep started, trying to bridge because i was halfway through a prep and had to move and didnt have enough time to completely stop and restart, so i lowered doses as i said...Then when i went to my contest cycle (higher doses), i grew while dieting, like about 12 lbs i think when i finished and got way, way leaner...I was thinking that was why, but i figured super low dose was better than no dose, or to high for to long....
What woukld one do in a situation like that?? Moving because of career, halfway through prep, then another contest about 20 weeks away??
Stop everything, or Stay higher for a much longer duration, In case i get caught again??
Thanks in advance...:)

I very much doubt you gained 12 lbs while dieting In fact I would be shocked if you gained 1lb. You cannot grow on a calorie deficit...the best one can hope for is to maintain all of his muscle...thats doing great. Its an illusion guys see in the mirror but LBM hasnt really changed.
P

[ironwill]

I very much doubt you gained 12 lbs while dieting In fact I would be shocked if you gained 1lb. You cannot grow on a calorie deficit...the best one can hope for is to maintain all of his muscle...thats doing great. Its an illusion guys see in the mirror but LBM hasnt really changed.
PI will bet you money on it i did........i am not an idiot and dont talk through, or out my ass, i can prove it by pics in my journal, and a couple of educated members saw me in person and can back up my claims, im not a talker........without a doubt i did......Just needed some help with figuring out why....

[natenator]

I will bet you money on it i did........i am not an idiot and dont talk through, or out my ass, i can prove it by pics in my journal, and a couple of educated members saw me in person and can back up my claims, im not a talker........without a doubt i did......Just needed some help with figuring out why....
lol

[physique]

also have any of u guys tried fierbteq by VPX?
way cheaper then fiberlyze.

[ironwill]

k im confused
first one 11.5 weeks out.......avi better pose...
second one 2 weeks out 10 lbs higher weight weight???same hat...

[steve_d]

I wouldn't be surprised if he did gain that much muscle. Why not? I've gained muscle while dieting naturally, so with gear it seems even more likely.

I think the key factor is how far you are away from your genetic or assisted potential. I am not the expert, but I speak from my own experience as well as others I've trained as well as others I train with. Once you've put on as much or almost as much muscle as you can get, then sure, you'll lose muscle while dieting (or not gain). But for someone with little experience, they CAN gain while dieting as long as they aren't in ridiculous caloric deficit. I suspect that is the same for someone just starting out on the "enhanced" side. They too can gain while dieting.

Sorry if I am hi-jacking...I just wanted to put that out there because I agree with ironwill

[Praetorian]

I will bet you money on it i did........i am not an idiot and dont talk through, or out my ass, i can prove it by pics in my journal, and a couple of educated members saw me in person and can back up my claims, im not a talker........without a doubt i did......Just needed some help with figuring out why....


Chill brother...ease up....im only having a discussion with you. The fact is in 10 years Ii have yet to see anyone...gain any muscle while in a calorie deficit...no need to get defensive...im not calling you out here. Lets put it this way...both Dorian and Ronnie with probably the best genes on the planet do not gain muscle while dieting the odds are that someone with lest say slightly less genetic potential gained 12 lbs. I never called you an idiot nor did i say you talk out of your ass...and in reality the only way to prove this is to measure a LBM gain over time via hyrdostatic testing. I wont argue you probably look much better in your after pics....that in no way proves a LBM gain however.
You may truly believe you have and thats ok...but when it comes down to statistical testing youll find that you didnt even though the visual outcome is very dramatic.
P

[ironwill]

you need to chill out, bro...seriously where did you see an attack...jeebus its friday take a break, maybe answerting to many questions.....you said you doubted it, i said ill bet, so if that offends you, then there is a problem, i dont react very often, so i probably wont start with you....so settle down and back on topic...now you cant say you have never seen it before, you learned something...its a good day..
the scale was the same throughout whole contest i didnt move from scale to scale.....my waist went way down, the mirror and educated eyes saw what i saw, and my weight stayed the same....I dont need hydro test for that.....fat left the bldg, and scale didnt move, so 1+1 = 2 ........
forget about it...
wow...sorry i asked....

[steve_d]

both Dorian and Ronnie with probably the best genes on the planet do not gain muscle while dieting the odds are that someone with lest say slightly less genetic potential gained 12 lbs.
P

Agree with this, however, I bet if you took those two guys when they were 20 years old, and put them on a slight calorie deficit, they could still have gained! This is kinda what I meant above with the whole genetic potential thing,.

[Praetorian]

I wouldn't be surprised if he did gain that much muscle. Why not? I've gained muscle while dieting naturally, so with gear it seems even more likely.

I think the key factor is how far you are away from your genetic or assisted potential. I am not the expert, but I speak from my own experience as well as others I've trained as well as others I train with. Once you've put on as much or almost as much muscle as you can get, then sure, you'll lose muscle while dieting (or not gain). But for someone with little experience, they CAN gain while dieting as long as they aren't in ridiculous caloric deficit. I suspect that is the same for someone just starting out on the "enhanced" side. They too can gain while dieting.

Sorry if I am hi-jacking...I just wanted to put that out there because I agree with ironwill

Most people (genetic freaks aside ie Dorian-Ronnie) cannot gain 12lbs of muscle in a year using gear...and youd like us to believe you gained muscle while in a calorie deficit while natural. Thats far fetched to say it mildly BUT I being open minded I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Get your LBM measured first at a University hydrostatic testing facility then diet and then test again and show us the gain. As well please explain while in a calorie deficit what is being used to build this muscle?
P

[ironwill]

Most people (genetic freaks aside ie Dorian-Ronnie) cannot gain 12lbs of muscle in a year using gear...and youd like us to believe you gained muscle while in a calorie deficit while natural. Thats far fetched to say it mildly BUT I being open minded I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Get your LBM measured first at a University hydrostatic testing facility then diet and then test again and show us the gain. As well please explain while in a calorie deficit what is being used to build this muscle?
P

im not a freak whatsoever, but i will again bet good money on here for all to see that it can be done adding 12 lbs of muscle from now until june 21 next yr, would you like to place this wager with me sir????:popc

[natenator]

im not a freak whatsoever, but i will again bet good money on here for all to see that it can be done adding 12 lbs of muscle from now until june 21 next yr, would you like to place this wager with me sir????:popc
He's offering a valid (and experienced) reason to what you may have saw/experienced yet you are getting defensive and calling him out? Why such hostility?

[steve_d]

I didn't gain 12 pounds or anything! I've gained about 2-3 pounds per year at most since I started 12 years ago. My first show I was 17, and started dieting at 150 pounds with no abs, and was 149 with a 6 pack 1 week out. Its true that some of that weight wasn't pure LBM - but I think when most of us talk about "gaining muscle" we think of it as what the scale says vs what the mirror says.

I don't think ironwill gained 12 pounds, but rather his body went through a drastic change in terms of muscles ability to hold onto water/glycogen and appear larger and fuller.

Again, while its true those freaks don't gain 12 pounds per year, I would bet that in the first year of gear they gained close to, if not, that much! I've seen it so many times, a guy will be natural, and the year after come in 10-15 pounds bigger on stage AND appear leaner.

[Praetorian]

you need to chill out, bro...seriously where did you see an attack...jeebus its friday take a break, maybe answerting to many questions.....you said you doubted it, i said ill bet, so if that offends you, then there is a problem, i dont react very often, so i probably wont start with you....so settle down and back on topic...now you cant say you have never seen it before, you learned something...its a good day..
the scale was the same throughout whole contest i didnt move from scale to scale.....my waist went way down, the mirror and educated eyes saw what i saw, and my weight stayed the same....I dont need hydro test for that.....fat left the bldg, and scale didnt move, so 1+1 = 2 ........
forget about it...
wow...sorry i asked....


I am perfectly chill....its friday brother LOL....never been better. I dont take anything personally trust me on this ive been at it too long. I only present the facts and experience i have seen. And there are always those that object strenuously and thats ok...everyone has their opinion. As i said I highly doubt it but you might prove me wrong...that would take facts but im open to it.
P

[L3]

P, are deadlifts a necessity in order to develop a good lower back physique? Heavy bent over rows seem to be working for me, if i am healthy enough in the future to compete, will deadlifts make or break my chance of winning the weight class?


words
here i go putting on my "Internet Tough Guy" Hat (thanks SS)... IW you're fagging up the thread. the point of this PARTICULAR forum is to learn, not argue!

[natenator]

Again, while its true those freaks don't gain 12 pounds per year, I would bet that in the first year of gear they gained close to, if not, that much! I've seen it so many times, a guy will be natural, and the year after come in 10-15 pounds bigger on stage AND appear leaner.

The difference here is said person didn't gain those 12lbs while in contest prep dieting they gained them through a mass gaining season. What 's being said is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to gain 12lbs of muscle while DIETING in a caloric deficit.

[Praetorian]

im not a freak whatsoever, but i will again bet good money on here for all to see that it can be done adding 12 lbs of muscle from now until june 21 next yr, would you like to place this wager with me sir????:popc


I am intrigued...are you talking dieting now as in your post or offseason? And does that include my offseason program because then it may be possible and the bets off...lol just kidding.
P ;o)

[Praetorian]

I didn't gain 12 pounds or anything! I've gained about 2-3 pounds per year at most since I started 12 years ago. My first show I was 17, and started dieting at 150 pounds with no abs, and was 149 with a 6 pack 1 week out. Its true that some of that weight wasn't pure LBM - but I think when most of us talk about "gaining muscle" we think of it as what the scale says vs what the mirror says.

I don't think ironwill gained 12 pounds, but rather his body went through a drastic change in terms of muscles ability to hold onto water/glycogen and appear larger and fuller. BINGO- I COMPLETELY AGREE!!!!

Again, while its true those freaks don't gain 12 pounds per year, I would bet that in the first year of gear they gained close to, if not, that much! I've seen it so many times, a guy will be natural, and the year after come in 10-15 pounds bigger on stage AND appear leaner. WE ARENT TALKING FIRST YEAR OF TRAINING OR FIRST CYCLE ...THE POST WAS "CALORIE DEFICIT"


By the way im not yelling lol caps are just to separate my comments...im smiling actually. ;o)
P

[ironwill]

Most people (genetic freaks aside ie Dorian-Ronnie) cannot gain 12lbs of muscle in a year using gear...and youd like us to believe you gained muscle while in a calorie deficit while natural. Thats far fetched to say it mildly BUT I being open minded I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Get your LBM measured first at a University hydrostatic testing facility then diet and then test again and show us the gain. As well please explain while in a calorie deficit what is being used to build this muscle?
P
this is the part im referring to, i am saying i believe (know) that a person can gain 12 lbs in one year on gear,,,,no hostility or defensiveness whatsoever, i would like to make it interesting however.....
I will bet that I can gain 12 lbs in 1 yr, less than a yr, in 11 months using gear, by june 21st next yr i will be 12 lbs heavier and dieted down leaner than i was this year,,i will do my own off season or through you, its no difference to me,(no cheating offering me a low protein diet lol)...can we put some money where our experiences and mouths are...Not calling you out, as ive been a board person many, many yrs and you wont find very many posts where i have done that...EVER, so again, i wouldnt start with someone with whom i have respect for.....
So can we bet??
1 yr full trng ...Or ill pay you the equivalent to that with you not trng me, if i were to lose??
Im up for it with a lot of witnesses, i do Believe. brotha.....:greet

[steve_d]

The difference here is said person didn't gain those 12lbs while in contest prep dieting they gained them through a mass gaining season. What 's being said is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to gain 12lbs of muscle while DIETING in a caloric deficit.

I'll agree to that. But I have a question...Is it possible to gain ANY muscle without gaining bodyfat (or actually losing bodyfat) ? The simple math is that to grow you need additional calories. So let's say I maintain at 2000 - then let's add gear to the mix, then let's up the calories to 2100. Would I not start gaining? Ever so slowly that is...

If the above has any truth to it, then for sure you can gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously. I know some competitors that only cycle during contest prep. They start dieting say at 180 pounds at say 14-15% (no abs) - then on contest day, they are 175 pounds, at 5% with striated glutes...So IS it possible to gain muscle AND lose fat? My thoughts are yes.

[C-money]

Most people (genetic freaks aside ie Dorian-Ronnie) cannot gain 12lbs of muscle in a year using gear...and youd like us to believe you gained muscle while in a calorie deficit while natural. Thats far fetched to say it mildly BUT I being open minded I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Get your LBM measured first at a University hydrostatic testing facility then diet and then test again and show us the gain. As well please explain while in a calorie deficit what is being used to build this muscle?
P

I agree that you cant do it naturally, no way in hell... on gear i think its possible to maintain muscle mass, and maybe slightly gain.. Just from my experience, ive done cutting diets below 1800 cals on test e and my strength and weight goes up and bf percentage significantly goes down.. Thats just with my experience...

[Praetorian]

P, are deadlifts a necessity in order to develop a good lower back physique? Heavy bent over rows seem to be working for me, if i am healthy enough in the future to compete, will deadlifts make or break my chance of winning the weight class?


here i go putting on my "Internet Tough Guy" Hat (thanks SS)... IW you're fagging up the thread. the point of this PARTICULAR forum is to learn, not argue!

You can build a decent back without deads...however when i see someone who has a truly freaky back it inevitably comes down to serious deads.
I know pros that dont deadlift and have a good back...I prefer to go with guys like Dorian or Ronnie and keep them in. For most of my clients when i added deads to their routines..there backs became a much more dominant muscle group.
P

[Praetorian]

I'll agree to that. But I have a question...Is it possible to gain ANY muscle without gaining bodyfat (or actually losing bodyfat) ? The simple math is that to grow you need additional calories. So let's say I maintain at 2000 - then let's add gear to the mix, then let's up the calories to 2100. Would I not start gaining? Ever so slowly that is...BU YOU ARE NO LONGER IN A CALORIE DEFICIT ARE YOU? THUS YOU ARE MAINTAINING NOT LOSING BF.

If the above has any truth to it, then for sure you can gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously. I know some competitors that only cycle during contest prep. They start dieting say at 180 pounds at say 14-15% (no abs) - then on contest day, they are 175 pounds, at 5% with striated glutes...So IS it possible to gain muscle AND lose fat? My thoughts are yes. YOU SAID IT YOURSELF TO GROW YOU NEED ADDITIONAL CALORIES...PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW YOU GROW WHILE IN A CALORIE DEFICIT...FROM WHAT?


P

[Praetorian]

this is the part im referring to, i am saying i believe (know) that a person can gain 12 lbs in one year on gear,,,,no hostility or defensiveness whatsoever, i would like to make it interesting however.....
I will bet that I can gain 12 lbs in 1 yr, less than a yr, in 11 months using gear, by june 21st next yr i will be 12 lbs heavier and dieted down leaner than i was this year,,i will do my own off season or through you, its no difference to me,(no cheating offering me a low protein diet lol)...can we put some money where our experiences and mouths are...Not calling you out, as ive been a board person many, many yrs and you wont find very many posts where i have done that...EVER, so again, i wouldnt start with someone with whom i have respect for.....
So can we bet??
1 yr full trng ...Or ill pay you the equivalent to that with you not trng me, if i were to lose??
Im up for it with a lot of witnesses, i do Believe. brotha.....:greet

LOL ok heres the bet...get your LBM test hydrostatically and post the certificate from University testing facilty here in Ontario. Take the offseason and do what you have to do....and prior to your diet next year well measure it again together. If you gained 12lbs of lean muscle...i will provide my 16 week precontest prep for free.
But what about the original post....12lbs while dieting?? Are we in agreement on that?
P

[steve_d]

I only have a theory, and it might sound dumb, but it sort of makes sense. In my opinion, your body doesn't select the calories in a specific order:

1. calories for breathing, thinking, talking, blinking,
2. calories for working out and exercising
3. calories for putting on muscle.
4. calories for maintaining current fat level, or putting on fat.

I think the calories get in and are spread through all four.

So in my mind, if you are in a slight calorie deficit, then why can't some of those calories get put into the first 3, without any calories left for #4. hence you start losing weight. I know it might sound dumb to most, but I think in theory its possible especially on gear.

[ironwill]

LOL ok heres the bet...get your LBM test hydrostatically and post the certificate from University testing facilty here in Ontario. Take the offseason and do what you have to do....and prior to your diet next year well measure it again together. If you gained 12lbs of lean muscle...i will provide my 16 week precontest prep for free.
But what about the original post....12lbs while dieting?? Are we in agreement on that?
P
are alberta universities not good enough???It will cost me more to fly there and back than your prep will cost me.....I will do it here if you accept a certificate from here...I am not, nor would i ever lie or forge something so thats a non issue, i can get witnesses if you desire...lets bet dammit, i want free prep...
As far as my gaining while dieting, i dont know what to say other than i lost a lot of fat, and inches very visible, yet the scale stayed the same.....I dont know how much i THINK or fantasized that i gained...
so im still thinking about it, and i can agree to disagree, but the mirror and scale do not lie....
Back to the wager, im not a betting man , but i will for this..
i was thinking that if i was in equal, or better (preferable) condition to last yr at weigh in nite with 12 lbs added to my frame, then i must have gained 12 lbs of LBM....NO???
thanx for stopping the yelling...lolol...jk..

[Praetorian]

I only have a theory, and it might sound dumb, but it sort of makes sense. In my opinion, your body doesn't select the calories in a specific order:

1. calories for breathing, thinking, talking, blinking,
2. calories for working out and exercising
3. calories for putting on muscle.
4. calories for maintaining current fat level, or putting on fat.

I think the calories get in and are spread through all four.

So in my mind, if you are in a slight calorie deficit, then why can't some of those calories get put into the first 3, without any calories left for #4. hence you start losing weight. I know it might sound dumb to most, but I think in theory its possible especially on gear.

When in a calorie deficit preserving life prevails over everything else...the body is battling to preserve what it has...hence lowering thormone levels ie thyroid, leptin etc...building muscle is the last thing it is trying to do.
P

[Praetorian]

are alberta universities not good enough???It will cost me more to fly there and back than your prep will cost me.....I will do it here if you accept a certificate from here...I am not, nor would i ever lie or forge something so thats a non issue, i can get witnesses if you desire...lets bet dammit, i want free prep...
As far as my gaining while dieting, i dont know what to say other than i lost a lot of fat, and inches very visible, yet the scale stayed the same.....I dont know how much i THINK or fantasized that i gained...
so im still thinking about it, and i can agree to disagree, but the mirror and scale do not lie....
Back to the wager, im not a betting man , but i will for this..
i was thinking that if i was in equal, or better (preferable) condition to last yr at weigh in nite with 12 lbs added to my frame, then i must have gained 12 lbs of LBM....NO???
thanx for stopping the yelling...lolol...jk..

I did not realize you were in Alberta yes that would be fine lol. Ill take the bet more so that it gives you motivation to exceed yourself. My goal for all my clients. Visually looking at a physique presents a few problems...one being it can appear leaner and harder from different drug use...ie halo...thus people assume they are leaner which in fact they are not. This happens ALL the time with tren...everyone thinks they are losing fat while getting bigger...not the case...the androgen is making them appear harder. As well add in an AI and estro is reduced thus again the physique appears leaner...not the case.
This is why so many think they have gained while dieting...unfortunately you cannot build muscle without calories...what is it growing on air?
You need to measure LBM period to be sure.
P

[ironwill]

I did not realize you were in Alberta yes that would be fine lol. Ill take the bet more so that it gives you motivation to exceed yourself. My goal for all my clients. Visually looking at a physique presents a few problems...one being it can appear leaner and harder from different drug use...ie halo...thus people assume they are leaner which in fact they are not. This happens ALL the time with tren...everyone thinks they are losing fat while getting bigger...not the case...the androgen is making them appear harder. As well add in an AI and estro is reduced thus again the physique appears leaner...not the case.
This is why so many think they have gained while dieting...unfortunately you cannot build muscle without calories...what is it growing on air?
You need to measure LBM period to be sure.
P
Cool, and thank-you for the explanation, i cant do tren, nor tried halo.....i did add in an AI, added in prop, and clen, and winny...maybe that was part of it...BUT....lol..

I am mostly taking the bet to motivate myself and keep me moving up as well, because if i look like a fool and not do what i started out to do, then ill be a fool...lol....especially in front of others, but im more motivated by saying i will do something and worry about failure more in myself than anything...so we have a bet...im so excited....lol...I will get in to do a hydro test soon as i find out where and what to do...then we can clearly state details on how we can set the ground rules...so far, start now with a hydrotest....Then ill post it, then prior to prep about 18 weeks out ill do it again, if i gained 12 lbs of lbm, i get free trng...If i am not at least that much, ill pay you double.....sound good so far, im saving this to my favorites ..thanx for motivation P..

One question, i am pretty sure youve been waiting for it....KEVIN LEVRONE, what the hell did he do then every yr for his last few, gained while prepping...

[Praetorian]

Cool, and thank-you for the explanation, i cant do tren, nor tried halo.....i did add in an AI, added in prop, and clen, and winny...maybe that was part of it...BUT....lol..

I am mostly taking the bet to motivate myself and keep me moving up as well, because if i look like a fool and not do what i started out to do, then ill be a fool...lol....especially in front of others, but im more motivated by saying i will do something and worry about failure more in myself than anything...so we have a bet...im so excited....lol...I will get in to do a hydro test soon as i find out where and what to do...then we can clearly state details on how we can set the ground rules...so far, start now with a hydrotest....Then ill post it, then prior to prep about 18 weeks out ill do it again, if i gained 12 lbs of lbm, i get free trng...If i am not at least that much, ill pay you double.....sound good so far, im saving this to my favorites ..thanx for motivation P..

One question, i am pretty sure youve been waiting for it....KEVIN LEVRONE, what the hell did he do then every yr for his last few, gained while prepping...

No need to pay me double....the going rate is fine.
P


PS kevin Levrone in an enigma...i dont think he has human genes...nuff said

[tiramisu]

IFBB card holders have a special ability to lie about height, weight, body composition that amateurs have not yet learned the secret of

[ironwill]

here i go putting on my "Internet Tough Guy" Hat (thanks SS)... IW you're fagging up the thread. the point of this PARTICULAR forum is to learn, not argue!
last time i checked you learn through healthy debate......now get off my ass dudes, Prae is a big boy and can fend for himself....
u wanna be a sheep, go ahead, i ask and challenge and hope to learn, if you want to tell me off in the process so be it...get a grip...
It serves one well in the real and internet world.

[gsxr750]

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to respond to all of our questions..

My question is:

What foods and or supplements do you recommend for controlling appetite while starting or maintaining a keto diet? I know you're not a big fan of ECA so just curious what else has worked for you or your clients.

Thanks bud

[nottobig]

What are your thoughts on the diff between UG and Human Grade products? Have you done a prep for a show just with UG and did you find that you had to use a higher dosage?

[Praetorian]

IFBB card holders have a special ability to lie about height, weight, body composition that amateurs have not yet learned the secret of

Yes this also is true, the weights you hear are rarely accurate. Notice at the weigh in the guys are stepping on the scale fully clothed with shoes or boots on etc.
P

[Praetorian]

What are your thoughts on the diff between UG and Human Grade products? Have you done a prep for a show just with UG and did you find that you had to use a higher dosage?

Ive used both...UG wasnt around back in the mid 90's all we had was human or real vet. The problem with human is as it has always been is it real. With the advent of UG gear and the decline of human there is more and more faked human gear out there. It is also impossible to tell from packaging etc So odds are if you are using human gear you need a very reliable source or you could be getting fake stuff...even the source may not know its fake...so there is always that risk. With UG gear it doesnt really pay to fake it since the cost is so reasonable. The problem with UG gear is cleanliness/sterility etc and dosing. Some is very dirty, under dosed etc. So again the source is very important.
I used exclusive UG for my last prep...dosed exactly as it said on the vial...no issues.
P

[Praetorian]

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to respond to all of our questions..

My question is:

What foods and or supplements do you recommend for controlling appetite while starting or maintaining a keto diet? I know you're not a big fan of ECA so just curious what else has worked for you or your clients.

Thanks bud

Inherent to the keto diet is lack of hunger. I know you may think you are really hunger but try low fat low carb the traditional BB diet...youll go crazy. Ketosis in itself blunts hunger, so does clen...i dont use ECA etc as you know. When I diet i look forward to my cheat meal and use that to help get thru the day. My hunger doesnt really kick in hyper drive until I start no fat days....then its pure will power. I have never used appetite suppressants. You can try dexatrim from your local drug store it may help...hoodia is supposed to as well.
P

[MMASTAR]

Hey Prae, thanks in advance for doing this.. what is proper PCT protocol for a 10 week var cycle at 60mg ed and last 5 weeks t bol at 60 mg ed as well? I know oral only is not the way to go and i should have had a test base.. now i know. Thanks

[Praetorian]

Hey Prae, thanks in advance for doing this.. what is proper PCT protocol for a 10 week var cycle at 60mg ed and last 5 weeks t bol at 60 mg ed as well? I know oral only is not the way to go and i should have had a test base.. now i know. Thanks

Wow thats a long time on orals...run a good liver cleanse after as well. Anavar is not very suppressive...tbol as well. If you are young...ie under 30...3 weeks of clomid 50mg BID(twice daily) would probably be enough.
P

[MMASTAR]

Thanks, I have some nolvadex on hand, could i just use that? Do you prefer one over the other?

[Praetorian]

Thanks, I have some nolvadex on hand, could i just use that? Do you prefer one over the other?

I prefer clomid...but since you have nolva on hand you can try it.
P

[LIVEHARD]

I'm running a cycle of T400 right now. I switched from 500mg's of Tenth a week too 800mg's week T400

I'm am thinking of adding Eq to the mix I am 7 weeks in starting week 8 of my run.

What would be the best way to add and administer the EQ with the T400

also they come from two different labs. I have no issue with this though some might.

How long should i run the EQ i have 12 weeks left of a twenty weeker ?

With the addition of the EQ how is my AI's I'm off them as of now no with sides great gains of the T400

[Praetorian]

I'm running a cycle of T400 right now. I switched from 500mg's of Tenth a week too 800mg's week T400

I'm am thinking of adding Eq to the mix I am 7 weeks in starting week 8 of my run.

What would be the best way to add and administer the EQ with the T400

also they come from two different labs. I have no issue with this though some might.

How long should i run the EQ i have 12 weeks left of a twenty weeker ?

With the addition of the EQ how is my AI's I'm off them as of now no with sides great gains of the T400


Add the EQ in at 150mg EOD. Run it to week 18. The test should be EOD as well. This keeps blood levels very stable and all but eliminates sides. You shouldnt need an AI EQ aromatizes very little and if you are having no issues with the test leave it out.
P

[nitrous]

Praetorian this section is awesome.. we are lucky to have your help

[LIVEHARD]

Add the EQ in at 150mg EOD. Run it to week 18. The test should be EOD as well. This keeps blood levels very stable and all but eliminates sides. You shouldnt need an AI EQ aromatizes very little and if you are having no issues with the test leave it out.
P

Done deal

Happy Pinning !!!!!!!!:yeah

[nisser]

If you had to pin 3ml but wanted to split it into 2 sites (2ml + 1mL), how would you recommend to do it in the safest, most aseptic way possible?

[Ron Partlow]

IFBB card holders have a special ability to lie about height, weight, body composition that amateurs have not yet learned the secret of

ANother famous trick by people on message boards, not just pros, is to post pics after 3-4 weeks of dieting and say they are their starting/before pics. Then everyone thinks they stay in way better shape than they really do.

[ubcpower]

Hey P,
sorry if youve answered this but ...calves? your thoughts on training them for someone who has stubborn calves and poor genetics when it comes to this bpart...thx

[Praetorian]

If you had to pin 3ml but wanted to split it into 2 sites (2ml + 1mL), how would you recommend to do it in the safest, most aseptic way possible?

Load a 3cc syringe and inject 2cc, then change the tip and inject the last cc.
P

[Praetorian]

ANother famous trick by people on message boards, not just pros, is to post pics after 3-4 weeks of dieting and say they are their starting/before pics. Then everyone thinks they stay in way better shape than they really do.

Sneaky bastards eh...lol
P

[Praetorian]

Hey P,
sorry if youve answered this but ...calves? your thoughts on training them for someone who has stubborn calves and poor genetics when it comes to this bpart...thx

My calves have always been stubborn but they do respond if I am consistent in my training...I usually train calves 2-3 times per week. I like to stick to one exercise each time...ie standing, seated, donkeys, etc and do 5 sets of 10-15 reps. Then ill do single leg bodyweight only raise off a block or stairs etc I found if you go slow and deliberate on these and hold the top part they work wonders.
P

[Vitamin S]

off season training vs pre-contest training?

praetorian, would you keep these the same or change it up. like for instance if in the off-seaon for chest im doing mostly incline benching, flat bench and decline and some peck deck, would i change it when it is time for pre-contest training to more flyes inner pec work for detail and seperation?

what i am getting to at is, i was told that diet and cardio is what will define and cut you up and not the actual exercises. like to get the chest seperation nice and deep for examle would you do flyes from different angles to make it more visible or just stick to the basics and let the diet and cardio, lean you out enough for it to be visible.

would the same go for back and other body parts. i always keep the weight heavy good form and go for 4-6 reps for pushing and 6-8 for pulling and 10-12 for the smaller muscles to keep that dense hard look.

i was told biggest mistake to go is light when dieting and trying to cut up as that is when the muscle bellies go flat and you don't keep that hard dense muscle, and heavy is the way to go.

whats ur say on that?

thx

[gsxr750]

Another 'keto' question if I may?

I'm trying to help a good friend get into a keto diet. He is having a hard time with the cravings and hunger during the first week or two.

I was thinking instead of having him try and start right off with a Palumbo style meal plan, what if he just ate Fat/Protein with no calorie limits for the first 2 weeks?

I mean, would that not work for switching him into ketosis still or would excess calories prevent it? If he's having the cravings / hunger problems why not have him just eat larger portions of steak or fats or whatever until full, just until he's switched over into keto and then start restricting the diet / calories? Would that work?

[Praetorian]

off season training vs pre-contest training?

praetorian, would you keep these the same or change it up. like for instance if in the off-seaon for chest im doing mostly incline benching, flat bench and decline and some peck deck, would i change it when it is time for pre-contest training to more flyes inner pec work for detail and seperation?

what i am getting to at is, i was told that diet and cardio is what will define and cut you up and not the actual exercises. like to get the chest seperation nice and deep for examle would you do flyes from different angles to make it more visible or just stick to the basics and let the diet and cardio, lean you out enough for it to be visible.

would the same go for back and other body parts. i always keep the weight heavy good form and go for 4-6 reps for pushing and 6-8 for pulling and 10-12 for the smaller muscles to keep that dense hard look.

i was told biggest mistake to go is light when dieting and trying to cut up as that is when the muscle bellies go flat and you don't keep that hard dense muscle, and heavy is the way to go.

whats ur say on that?

thx

Training doesnt change much from offseason to precontest. The weights may lighten somewhat as strength declines a bit due to water loss etc I also keep my reps in the 5-10 range never going for triples or lower as that can lead to injury. The rep range whether pushing or pulling really isnt any different. You need to train heavy to retain muscle...training light leads to muscle loss. All exercises i try to stick with 1st set 5-6, second 6-8 third 8-10 on all muscle groups. Diet and cardio will remove the fat and provide the defined separated look...not training.
P

[Praetorian]

Another 'keto' question if I may?

I'm trying to help a good friend get into a keto diet. He is having a hard time with the cravings and hunger during the first week or two.

I was thinking instead of having him try and start right off with a Palumbo style meal plan, what if he just ate Fat/Protein with no calorie limits for the first 2 weeks?

I mean, would that not work for switching him into ketosis still or would excess calories prevent it? If he's having the cravings / hunger problems why not have him just eat larger portions of steak or fats or whatever until full, just until he's switched over into keto and then start restricting the diet / calories? Would that work?

Start him on the Palumbo diet. He doesnt need excess calories...he needs to understand that dieting takes sacrafice and commitment. Giving him excess calories and then taking them away after is not going to help...he will still complain. He will only have issues for 3 days until he switches to ketosis then he will be fine.
Tell him to suck it up.
P

[Vitamin S]

would it make sense to double up on some body parts such as rear delts or calves while dieting for a show to bring it up, or is that not a good idea since ur in a restricted caloric state and could lead to overtraining muscle loss?

[natenator]

would it make sense to double up on some body parts such as rear delts or calves while dieting for a show to bring it up, or is that not a good idea since ur in a restricted caloric state and could lead to overtraining muscle loss?
answered in the tread already.

[Praetorian]

As Nate said I believe i answered this already....you dont build muscle while dieting.
P

[C-money]

Hey P, what do you think is the best route to take for MAXIMUM results, doing lots of short cycles, or staying on longer 20 plus week cycles, or staying on and blast n cruisin?

[Praetorian]

One...you are either on or off...there is no such thing as blast and cruise...that BS was made up by someone who didnt want to come off.
Two...you need time to build muscle...it doesnt happen in 4-6 weeks...12-16 weeks cycles IMO are best.
P

[L3]

P, say one is in their off-season. And they would like to appear "leaner" (less bloated/less subq water) than usual on a particular night (ie Saturday), while maintaining the "full" look of their muscles.

What carb/water/sodium/herbal diuretic/excercise protocol would you reccomend, if you only had 6 days notice (starting on the monday of that week).

Thanks!!!

[natenator]

P, say one is in their off-season. And they would like to appear "leaner" (less bloated/less subq water) than usual on a particular night (ie Saturday), while maintaining the "full" look of their muscles.

What carb/water/sodium/herbal diuretic/excercise protocol would you reccomend, if you only had 6 days notice (starting on the monday of that week).

Thanks!!!
hot date? lol

[L3]

hot date? lol

:rolleyes:
maaaaybe

[Praetorian]

P, say one is in their off-season. And they would like to appear "leaner" (less bloated/less subq water) than usual on a particular night (ie Saturday), while maintaining the "full" look of their muscles.

What carb/water/sodium/herbal diuretic/excercise protocol would you reccomend, if you only had 6 days notice (starting on the monday of that week).

Thanks!!!

Well most offseason BB are lets say "smooth" I think would be politically correct. ;o) So I dont know how much difference it will really make.
But...you could drop carbs for 5 days, make sure you are drinking plenty of water and keep sodium intake normal...drop sodium the day before and take a herbal diuretic with every meal that day and add some cabr sback in to each meal. . Stop water intake around 6-7 pm.
P

[nitrous]

Hey Praetorian when offseason dieting (so trying to build muscle) you recommended
(6-8 MEALS PER DAY...50G PRO + 50G CARBS + 20G FAT)

that works out to: 35p/35c/30f
Razor Ripped suggested: 40p/30c/30f
Dave Palumbo suggested: 50p/25c/25f

1. I want to make sure i didnt read into what you said to much and that i am correct with the macronutrient break up i looked at?

2. Do you suggest when in the offseason all meals being the same size for protein/carbs/fat or having more of the carbs in the morning and before and after the workout with less carbs for the rest of the day?

[Praetorian]

Hey Praetorian when offseason dieting (so trying to build muscle) you recommended
(6-8 MEALS PER DAY...50G PRO + 50G CARBS + 20G FAT)

that works out to: 35p/35c/30f??? NOT SURE WHAT THIS IS
Razor Ripped suggested: 40p/30c/30f
Dave Palumbo suggested: 50p/25c/25f

1. I want to make sure i didnt read into what you said to much and that i am correct with the macronutrient break up i looked at?

50 50 20 ISA STARTING POINT ADJUSTED ACCORDING TO THE INDIVIDUAL CLIENTS NEEDS AND RESPONSES

2. Do you suggest when in the offseason all meals being the same size for protein/carbs/fat or having more of the carbs in the morning and before and after the workout with less carbs for the rest of the day?

THE LAST MEAL BEFORE BED DOESNT NEED MANY CARBS OTHERWISE ALL SIMILAR


P

[nitrous]

35p/35c/30f meaning 35% protein/35% carbs/30% fat

but you answered my question thank you

[Praetorian]

35p/35c/30f meaning 35% protein/35% carbs/30% fat

but you answered my question thank you

Im talking grams per meal here...so is Dave P...overall percentages doesnt really matter.
P

[nitrous]

Im talking grams per meal here...so is Dave P...overall percentages doesnt really matter.
P

sounds good.. my current diet was working alright till i strayed away from it terribly and looking at switching things up a bit.. i'll be trying the 50g protein 50g carbs and 20g fat and go from there.. i guess the only way to know if it isnt working is if i am putting on too much fat but my first instinct will be to do more cardio instead of eating less carbs but it will just take some trial and error..

[Praetorian]

sounds good.. my current diet was working alright till i strayed away from it terribly and looking at switching things up a bit.. i'll be trying the 50g protein 50g carbs and 20g fat and go from there.. i guess the only way to know if it isnt working is if i am putting on too much fat but my first instinct will be to do more cardio instead of eating less carbs but it will just take some trial and error..

These macros are for offseason so increasing cardio is not an option...that would limit gains. You need to adjust macros to suit your body and size. As I said this is only an outline...it has to be adjusted to the individual.
P

[nitrous]

These macros are for offseason so increasing cardio is not an option...that would limit gains. You need to adjust macros to suit your body and size. As I said this is only an outline...it has to be adjusted to the individual.
P

offseason i try to do 30 minutes of cardio <130bpm on off gym days.. is that too much to the point i am limiting gains? i figured as long as i keep the heart rate low i should be good to go

[#8]

Almost every night about 30 minutes before bed I have a shake that consists of 21g whey, and approx 25g egg white (from the carton). I mix that together so it doesnt taste nasty and down it.

I figure the albumin slow releases longer than the iso whey so I'm good to go for several hours while sleeping.

Does this make sense? Do you recommend this?

[GYMBRAT]

Hey Praetorion, do you recommend sticking to basically all compound type low rep movements when adding size, or would you still incorporate the more shaping higher rep movements with ones workout program as well?

thanks again
GB

[Praetorian]

offseason i try to do 30 minutes of cardio <130bpm on off gym days.. is that too much to the point i am limiting gains? i figured as long as i keep the heart rate low i should be good to go

Offseason you have plenty of glycogen so there is no need to keep your heart rate low. As well 30min low intensity will not be doing much in the way of fat burbing offseason. I would suggest a shorter duration ie 10-15min and higher intensity...stairclimber.
This does two things....helps you out cardiovascular wise, increases appetite...burns a few calories.
Keep it to 2-3 times per week maximum.
IMO i would rather lower carb intake than do cardio.
P

[Praetorian]

Almost every night about 30 minutes before bed I have a shake that consists of 21g whey, and approx 25g egg white (from the carton). I mix that together so it doesnt taste nasty and down it.

I figure the albumin slow releases longer than the iso whey so I'm good to go for several hours while sleeping.

Does this make sense? Do you recommend this?

Egg whites wont slow transit time by much...I would suggest 40g whey plus 1.5 Tbsp natural peanut butter.
P

[Praetorian]

Hey Praetorion, do you recommend sticking to basically all compound type low rep movements when adding size, or would you still incorporate the more shaping higher rep movements with ones workout program as well?

thanks again
GB


The basics are a necessity but I like to incorporate a variety of exercises in my training...IMO balance is best.
P

[Vitamin S]

i have ran into some good deals on protein powders isolate and others that contain soy lecithin as an ingredient, i use stricly isolate when cutting down, off season only use concentrate or isolate post workout.

the amount of soy lecithin in the 5lbs tubs is probably little trace amounts as i hear its used as a thickening agent so the shakes turn out better, is this amout enough to cause any estrogen related sides, like bloat or softness?

thanks.

[Vitamin S]

Is mayo acceptable as a fat source on the palumbo diet?

i read somewhere who posted this on another forum to him he said no, not sure i forgot the reasoning behind it, but if you read the numbers below taken off my mayo jar i don't understand why?

Brand: Hellmans Real Mayo

Nutrition Facts - per 1tbsp
calories 100
fat 10g
saturated fat 1g
trans fat 0g
polysatured fat 3g (2g from omega-6 and 1g from omega-3)
monosaturated fat 6g

cholestrol - 5mg
sodium 95mg
carbs 0g
fiber 0g
sugars 0g
protein 0.1g

makes no sense why we can't use it.

thanks.

btw - i have been using it as a fat source with my tuna at night in replace of a shake with peanut butter, is this a bad idea?

[Praetorian]

i have ran into some good deals on protein powders isolate and others that contain soy lecithin as an ingredient, i use stricly isolate when cutting down, off season only use concentrate or isolate post workout.

the amount of soy lecithin in the 5lbs tubs is probably little trace amounts as i hear its used as a thickening agent so the shakes turn out better, is this amout enough to cause any estrogen related sides, like bloat or softness?

thanks.

The amount is negligible i wouldnt worry about it.
P

[Praetorian]

Is mayo acceptable as a fat source on the palumbo diet?

i read somewhere who posted this on another forum to him he said no, not sure i forgot the reasoning behind it, but if you read the numbers below taken off my mayo jar i don't understand why?

Brand: Hellmans Real Mayo

Nutrition Facts - per 1tbsp
calories 100
fat 10g
saturated fat 1g
trans fat 0g
polysatured fat 3g (2g from omega-6 and 1g from omega-3)
monosaturated fat 6g

cholestrol - 5mg
sodium 95mg
carbs 0g
fiber 0g
sugars 0g
protein 0.1g

makes no sense why we can't use it.

thanks.

btw - i have been using it as a fat source with my tuna at night in replace of a shake with peanut butter, is this a bad idea?

No it is not acceptable...there are better choices for fat sources.
P

[L3]

P, about your comments on Ephedrine promoting cortisol release. Should one be concerned with that if they are using anabolics at the same time?

Thanks!!

[Praetorian]

P, about your comments on Ephedrine promoting cortisol release. Should one be concerned with that if they are using anabolics at the same time?

Thanks!!

All stimulants cause a release of cortisol...dose dependant. If dieting I would see a big problem...offseason not so much...but why even go there...doesnt make much sense when your main goal is anabolism. I would want to put all the cards in my favour not just some. I see guys using ephedrine to train and there training is as intense as some of my naps....please. A good cup of coffee will work wonders.
P

[LIVEHARD]

Emotions

Do you think AAS use has an effect on them ??

A positive or negative affect ??

For example I'm on right now 800mg T week.

I recently lost two close friends. On top of that.

There has been some politics and stress at work, usually I'm very calm and cool regarding matters like this.

I had to take a day off yesterday because I was an emotional train wreak

Up down angry sad all over the place.

Do you think my cycle may or could have added to this !!!

[Praetorian]

Emotions

Do you think AAS use has an effect on them ??

A positive or negative affect ??

For example I'm on right now 800mg T week.

I recently lost two close friends. On top of that.

There has been some politics and stress at work, usually I'm very calm and cool regarding matters like this.

I had to take a day off yesterday because I was an emotional train wreak

Up down angry sad all over the place.

Do you think my cycle may or could have added to this !!!

Yes of course...aas are hormones....hormones can affect how we feel etc
P

[Vitamin S]

is the mayo not a good source, just because it has no nutritional value where as almonds have value same with oil such as heart healthy, cause the numbers speak that its fine.

just wanting to know so i can explain to others, i don't doubt you just wanted to know exactly why?

thanks P

[Praetorian]

is the mayo not a good source, just because it has no nutritional value where as almonds have value same with oil such as heart healthy, cause the numbers speak that its fine.

just wanting to know so i can explain to others, i don't doubt you just wanted to know exactly why?

thanks P

Yes, it is better to choose a healthier fat...if you were only concerned with numbers then you could just use lard. You also need the carbs in the nuts and almond/PB butter on the diet.
P

[ironwill]

Yes, it is better to choose a healthier fat...if you were only concerned with numbers then you could just use lard. You also need the carbs in the nuts and almond/PB butter on the diet.
P

What are your thoughts on coconut oil...It is a saturated fat, but i sure do like it and have read it is high in benefits as a fat as well..I primarily use, olive oil, coconut oil(dont know why its oil, its solid) and fish oils and nuts...are these good choices and is cocnut oil beneficial as i assume it to be??
TIA...

[Praetorian]

What are your thoughts on coconut oil...It is a saturated fat, but i sure do like it and have read it is high in benefits as a fat as well..I primarily use, olive oil, coconut oil(dont know why its oil, its solid) and fish oils and nuts...are these good choices and is cocnut oil beneficial as i assume it to be??
TIA...

Coconut oil has many health benefits but being predominantly comprised of MCFA (medium chain fatty acids) its great for offseason but not good for dieting. The body will prefer them as fuel prior to bodyfat so it will affect fat loss.
P

[ironwill]

Thanks again P....i only use it offseason i forgot to mention...

[Vitamin S]

ok P so are the carbs needed just to fuel the workout out? how bout days you don't do workout such as days off or only cardio, is it better to stick with oils as they have no carbs for fat or is it okay to have the nuts and peanut butter on days off too.

[LIVEHARD]

Yes of course...aas are hormones....hormones can affect how we feel etc
P

Thanks P its been a fun ride the last few days NOT !!!!!!!

[GYMBRAT]

The basics are a necessity but I like to incorporate a variety of exercises in my training...IMO balance is best.
P

sounds great, many thanks to you sir once again P

[Praetorian]

ok P so are the carbs needed just to fuel the workout out? how bout days you don't do workout such as days off or only cardio, is it better to stick with oils as they have no carbs for fat or is it okay to have the nuts and peanut butter on days off too.

Yes they are necessary for training. You are starting to over think things...just follow the diet as it is daily.
P

[Vitamin S]

thanks again P, not trying to overthink thigns just trying to be knowledglbe so when someone asks i can give a proper answer, but thanks for your inputs to my and others quetsions lucky to have youl.

[gsxr750]

Yes, it is better to choose a healthier fat...if you were only concerned with numbers then you could just use lard. You also need the carbs in the nuts and almond/PB butter on the diet.
P

Thanks for the info. I was always curious about that too. I see some diets that recommend some extra virgin olive oil instead of natty PB for fats. That's why I always wondered if maybe olive oil Helmans mayonaise would be OK in the diet to make tuna more tolerable, Eggs hard boiled into some Egg Salad or Devilled.. etc..

[Praetorian]

Thanks for the info. I was always curious about that too. I see some diets that recommend some extra virgin olive oil instead of natty PB for fats. That's why I always wondered if maybe olive oil Helmans mayonaise would be OK in the diet to make tuna more tolerable, Eggs hard boiled into some Egg Salad or Devilled.. etc..

On a keto diet you need the carbs from nuts, egg yolks, nut butters, salad etc for training you cannot use ketones.
P

[nitrous]

Yes, it is better to choose a healthier fat...if you were only concerned with numbers then you could just use lard. You also need the carbs in the nuts and almond/PB butter on the diet.
P

just to jump in here for a second.. when i cook my eggwhites i ususally throw in 3 eggs = 15g of fat along with the eggwhites.. are the egg yolks a bad source of fat? i've always thought they were good to go but since we are on the topic i thought i'd ask

[ironwill]

Prae, what do you think of MGF...Is it useful as some reports claim it to be...??

[ubcpower]

Hey P,
If someone wants to stay quite lean in the offseason and is able to do LIT a.m. cardio on an empty stomach on teh elliptical do you think it would be more beneficial to do a longer session a few times a week or more smaller sessions.
Ex. 2x40min a.m. sessions
or 3-4 30 min a.m. session
Thanks again for doing this for us bro!

[Praetorian]

just to jump in here for a second.. when i cook my eggwhites i ususally throw in 3 eggs = 15g of fat along with the eggwhites.. are the egg yolks a bad source of fat? i've always thought they were good to go but since we are on the topic i thought i'd ask

Buy Omega 3 eggs...they are a good source of fat yes.
P

[Praetorian]

Prae, what do you think of MGF...Is it useful as some reports claim it to be...??

Useless!
P

[Praetorian]

Hey P,
If someone wants to stay quite lean in the offseason and is able to do LIT a.m. cardio on an empty stomach on teh elliptical do you think it would be more beneficial to do a longer session a few times a week or more smaller sessions.
Ex. 2x40min a.m. sessions
or 3-4 30 min a.m. session
Thanks again for doing this for us bro!

I would suggest HIT cardio for shorter(10-15min max) sessions 2-3 times per week max...LIT wont do much except burn some glycogen.
P

[nitrous]

Buy Omega 3 eggs...they are a good source of fat yes.
P

thank you sir:greet

[Van Zan]

This section should have subsection so one dont have to read all the 20 pages to find whats is looking 4

Diet - off season - contest prep

training

AS

HGH

PCT

[natenator]

This section should have subsection so one dont have to read all the 20 pages to find whats is looking 4

Diet - off season - contest prep

training

AS

HGH

PCT
want some cheese with that whine?

It's a good read nonetheless.

[Van Zan]

want some cheese with that whine?

It's a good read nonetheless.

Yeah I want some cheese :lick

[waderow]

Thanks for doing this P

Between cycles, how long should one wait after recovery to cycle again?

Example, came off a 25 week cycle about 2 months ago, and am now recovered. Of course I want to get on ASAP, as I lost very little muscle over PCT, but do not want to damage myself beyond an acceptable risk.... I have read often a good rule of thumb is to be "off" as long as you were on? Any logic to this? Seems like a good way to stay the same size

[Vitamin S]

what is your say on the anabolic window time period. i was told after your workout there is a certain time 30-40 mins to consume your High GI carbs with protien shake?? but i have also read that this is bs as the body doesn't know and all meals after working out including the next 6 up towards the following day as just as crucial, and this whole anabolic window - reload of the glycogen is a myth and only important if your a marathon runner where they are heavily depelted.

i've been doing 50g protein and 50g dextrose as a post workout shake within 30 mins of leavingin the gym.

if cardio is included after weights, your body is still burning fat for some time after you are finished cardio, not sure the amoutn of time but should one wait a certain number of mins or hours before eating anything such as protein/carbs so as to not slow down fat loss?

also if you do weights first thing on empty stomach is it really bad on muscle loss regardless if your on juice or not? i mean what about the 6-7 meals you will have afterwords, and meal from night before, isn't that enough to recuperate and build muscle or is it crucial you ingest some form of protien 20-40g before hitting the weights???

[Praetorian]

Thanks for doing this P

Between cycles, how long should one wait after recovery to cycle again?

Example, came off a 25 week cycle about 2 months ago, and am now recovered. Of course I want to get on ASAP, as I lost very little muscle over PCT, but do not want to damage myself beyond an acceptable risk.... I have read often a good rule of thumb is to be "off" as long as you were on? Any logic to this? Seems like a good way to stay the same size

Being off as long as you were on is an old myth. The idea is to normalize your HPTA as well as any other functions that may have been affected...ie liver, HDL etc If these are normal....ie blood work to prove it....then you arent going to get "more" normal by staying off longer. Thats not to say training clean for awhile isnt a good thing. On the other hand if values are not normalized then you shoudl remain off until they are...even if it was longer than when you were on.
The main idea is to keep healthy. Regular blood work, correct cycling, avoiding unnecessary dosages and compounds will all help. The only way to know for sure of you are normal is blood work...feeling good is not reliable.

P

[Praetorian]

what is your say on the anabolic window time period. i was told after your workout there is a certain time 30-40 mins to consume your High GI carbs with protien shake?? but i have also read that this is bs as the body doesn't know and all meals after working out including the next 6 up towards the following day as just as crucial, and this whole anabolic window - reload of the glycogen is a myth and only important if your a marathon runner where they are heavily depelted.

i've been doing 50g protein and 50g dextrose as a post workout shake within 30 mins of leavingin the gym.

if cardio is included after weights, your body is still burning fat for some time after you are finished cardio, not sure the amoutn of time but should one wait a certain number of mins or hours before eating anything such as protein/carbs so as to not slow down fat loss?

also if you do weights first thing on empty stomach is it really bad on muscle loss regardless if your on juice or not? i mean what about the 6-7 meals you will have afterwords, and meal from night before, isn't that enough to recuperate and build muscle or is it crucial you ingest some form of protien 20-40g before hitting the weights???

I always strive to get a post workout shake in within 30 min...then a balanced meal about an hour later.
If you are doing cardio post workout you should be dieting...not offseason...you can have a shake immediately after that is fine.
Never ever train without eating prior.
P

[IronMan]

Praetorian this section is awesome.. we are lucky to have your help

I HIGHLY agree! We are very lucky to have his help, knowledge, and imput!

As well as other good knowledgable guys such as Sean Summers, etc...

[IronMan]

Being off as long as you were on is an old myth. The idea is to normalize your HPTA as well as any other functions that may have been affected...ie liver, HDL etc If these are normal....ie blood work to prove it....then you arent going to get "more" normal by staying off longer. Thats not to say training clean for awhile isnt a good thing. On the other hand if values are not normalized then you shoudl remain off until they are...even if it was longer than when you were on.
The main idea is to keep healthy. Regular blood work, correct cycling, avoiding unnecessary dosages and compounds will all help. The only way to know for sure of you are normal is blood work...feeling good is not reliable.

P

VERY well put P! I'm loving this new thread lol. Can't stop reading it. I should have been stocking my store shelves and cleaning etc.... But instead I've been reading your post's and reply's non stop lol. LOVE IT. Oh and I should have taken your advice on the Aldactone and Diazide protocal for my recently past contest. I'll PM you with how bad my results were by not stopping the aldactone and still adding the diazide with it was. Wasn't a good time at all lol.

[IronMan]

What I was trying to say was you were right, I didn't completely follow your advice, and I really should have!

oops wrong button, sorry IW

[Praetorian]

We all live and learn.
;o)
P

[Van Zan]

where is my cheese

[ironwill]

What I was trying to say was you were right, I didn't completely follow your advice, and I really should have!

oops wrong button, sorry IW

I did the same damn thing dude...prae told me so, and i couldnt get the proper diuretic, and sufferd, and lost a lot of my look in the process...I wanted to listen just asked to late...cest la vie, it makes me stoked for nxt yr now...

[IronMan]

Yah same here. I've learnt alot about my body this year. Learnt what to do, and what not to do. But will probably make some mistakes next year too lol. Always learning. My body might respond differently next year to the same diet and other programs. Who knows.... So its good to have someone who has been there, and don't that many times over so we can learn from there mistakes.

[gicantor]

P,what is your opinion on tapering off? Like say going from 750mg to 500mg to 250mg then into PCT?

[MMASTAR]

Couple quick questions and thanks in advance. When doing a keto diet should i limit protein? Ive been doing about 40-45 grams protein and 10-15 grams fat 6 times per day. Should i have more fat? What do you think about using a fat burner during PCT, was thinking lipo ex. Got 8 weeks to drop 15 lbs, have 10 days left on var t-bol cycle. Any tips would be great. Thanks.

[nisser]

If you were going to take 35mg of dbol per day (25mg and 10mg pill), when in the day would you take which pill?

[Praetorian]

P,what is your opinion on tapering off? Like say going from 750mg to 500mg to 250mg then into PCT?

I drop to 500mg weekly for two weeks then start PCT one week after last shot.
P

[Praetorian]

Couple quick questions and thanks in advance. When doing a keto diet should i limit protein? Ive been doing about 40-45 grams protein and 10-15 grams fat 6 times per day. Should i have more fat? What do you think about using a fat burner during PCT, was thinking lipo ex. Got 8 weeks to drop 15 lbs, have 10 days left on var t-bol cycle. Any tips would be great. Thanks.

For a 200lb BB 45g pro and 15-20g fat is fine 6 times per day. Clen is what is what I would use during PCT...NO stimulant based fat burners...they raise cortisol and your levels during PCT are already elevated...BAD idea.
P

[Praetorian]

If you were going to take 35mg of dbol per day (25mg and 10mg pill), when in the day would you take which pill?

I would split the 25mg pill and take the three doses every 4 hours.
P

[IronMan]

I've read some recent articles based on medical studies which found solid results that Chromium Picolinate successfully blocked and inibitied cortisol production

[MMASTAR]

I dont want to use clen because of the negative effect it has on cardio, i have heard albuterol is acctually good for strength gain and cardio as well as fat lose, but i already know your opinion on that. Anything else i can do to aid in fat lose during pct? And is a refeed day necessary? i feel like it hinders fat lose. Thanks.

[nisser]

I would split the 25mg pill and take the three doses every 4 hours.
P

How would you split it without getting another capsule?

And if that isn't an option?

[Praetorian]

I've read some recent articles based on medical studies which found solid results that Chromium Picolinate successfully blocked and inibitied cortisol production

In whom? and how much?
P

[Praetorian]

I dont want to use clen because of the negative effect it has on cardio, i have heard albuterol is acctually good for strength gain and cardio as well as fat lose, but i already know your opinion on that. Anything else i can do to aid in fat lose during pct? And is a refeed day necessary? i feel like it hinders fat lose. Thanks.

How does clen have a negative effect on cardio? Some of my clients do 2.5 hours of cardio daily on 120mcg clen...no effect what so ever!!

Albuterol is useless at fat burning period...thats not my opinion either.

You dont strive for fat loss on PCT thats not smart!! Do it on a regular diet. A refeed day/meal is diet dependant.

What you feel doesnt matter ....guys dont seem to get this...what works matters...leave the feelings for relationships! ;o)
P

[natenator]

Some of my clients do 2.5 hours of cardio daily

fuk lol

[IronMan]

it was in humans and I think I remember the dose being 200mcg's 3 times a day. I'll find the studie and post it.

[Praetorian]

How would you split it without getting another capsule?

And if that isn't an option?

You always have the option of either breaking the tab or splitting the capsule into two...just empty out some cheap gel cap supps and use them.
Id rather do things the right way even if its more difficult.
P

[drdnj]

fuk lol

My thought exactly

[Praetorian]

it was in humans and I think I remember the dose being 200mcg's 3 times a day. I'll find the studie and post it.

Please post the % of cortisol blocked as well. If it was significant the pharms would be screaming because it would make cytadren obselete...i dont see any new advances against cushings disease lately.
P

[JonnyO]

VERY well put P! I'm loving this new thread lol. Can't stop reading it. I should have been stocking my store shelves and cleaning etc.... But instead I've been reading your post's and reply's non stop lol. LOVE IT. Oh and I should have taken your advice on the Aldactone and Diazide protocal for my recently past contest. I'll PM you with how bad my results were by not stopping the aldactone and still adding the diazide with it was. Wasn't a good time at all lol.

I experimented with Aldactazide going into Dyazide my last show and it worked out very well.

[Praetorian]

I experimented with Aldactazide going into Dyazide my last show and it worked out very well.

Most guys have very little understanding of how Aldactone works...if they did they wouldnt touch it with a ten foot pole. This is the very simple case of a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
P

[JonnyO]

Most guys have very little understanding of how Aldactone works...if they did they wouldnt touch it with a ten foot pole. This is the very simple case of a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
P

I am fully aware of Aldactones actions and mechanisms, I had nothing to lose, had some Aldactazide on me I've never tried, so why the hell not I had nothing to lose, and it worked out well. I started it a day and a half out from the show, not all week like you may be thinking. Anyways....it worked, and boy did it work FAST too. A lot faster than Diazide alone.

[Praetorian]

I am fully aware of Aldactones actions and mechanisms, I had nothing to lose, had some Aldactazide on me I've never tried, so why the hell not I had nothing to lose, and it worked out well. I started it a day and a half out from the show, not all week like you may be thinking. Anyways....it worked, and boy did it work FAST too. A lot faster than Diazide alone.

The post was not directed at you personally but at BB's in general. However as I said if guys understood how aldactone works they would never use it. The other issue is Aldactazide is a combination diuretic as you know comprised of Aldactone(Spironolactone) and hydrochlorothyazide...where as Dyazide is Triamterene and hydrochlorothiazide. In this regard Aldactazide would be a slower acting diuretic NOT faster as the difference Aldactone technically takes time..ie days to block aldosterone and the other component hydrochlorothyazide is the same. The main issue however is how Spironolactone works in the body. It is an aldosterone blocker...this takes a few days to be completely effective...not overnight. When aldosterone is blocked the kidneys will excrete sodium and hence water will follow. However with aldosterone being inhibited here is the kicker...sodium cannot be reabsorbed. This is the main issue with spironolactone...without the ability to reabsorb sodium, blood pressure will remain low, you wont be able to carb up effectively, and you wont be able to get a pump backstage not to mention vascularity will be nonexistant. This is the situation many BB find themselves in and it is impossible to get out of in time to compete on stage.
You had everything to lose by taking aldactazide because one thing you never do before a show is try something you have never done or dont know the outcome. The timing of taking it only 36 hours out prevented most of the inhibition of aldsoterone so the diuretic effect you saw was 90% hydrochlorothyzides action.
Thats a huge risk to take and one that will backfire eventually...a great way to ruin 16 weeks of hard dieting. Consider yourself lucky!
P

[JonnyO]

Thats a huge risk to take and one that will backfire eventually...a great way to ruin 16 weeks of hard dieting. Consider yourself lucky!
P

Thats the thing, I dieted for 3 days for this show...so as I SAID I had NOTHING to lose! But thanks anyways.

[Vitamin S]

lol 3 days, i bet palumbo wants to know what your secret is eh?

[BritishColumbian]

You answered all my questions and then some. Thanks P! Great thread!
Green 4 u

[JonnyO]

lol 3 days, i bet palumbo wants to know what your secret is eh?

I doubt it.

[LIVEHARD]

I have been training hard for twelve week no with missed workouts.

I just finished week 8 of a Test 400 cycle


I took this week off feeling burnt working long shifts the last few weeks diet and ZZZ's got a bit F'ked up hence the burn out

I switched gyms and I'm starting a 5 day split as of monday


HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT A WEEK OFF MID CYCLE ??

[IronMan]

My problem was I started taking Aldactone 7 days before the show, 25 mgs 2 times per day 1 25mg in the am and pm. Then I got ahold of some Aldactizide 25/25 and took it starting wensday 4 days out from my saturday show. I looked my best 2-3 days out, then the last 2 days before the show I pissed out 17lbs of freaking water, mostly out of my muscles. I completely flattened out like a pancake. Shook horrible while I was trying to pose, and felt as if I was going to f@#king die. I SHOULD have listened to Praetorians advice and I would have looked and felt MUCH better. Dammit lol. Here is a pic 3 days out from the show, and a pic 2 days out, and finally the last 2 pics the day of the show. You can see how much I flattened out the day of the show.

[ironwill]

you are invisible

[IronMan]

LOL can someone make those pics smaller

[gsxr750]

Crazy pics IronMan.. you look awesome.. no homo. Can I ask your age?

[Vitamin S]

How much cardio would one need to do if its HIIT to equal 1 hour of low intensity cardio at a heart rate of 120bpm?

im just bored of it to do it that long or sometimes no time and was looking to for an alternative, i know HIIT can be done in shorter time, so how much would be equal to that, or ball park figure??

thanks

[JonnyO]

Ironman, looked his best 2-3 days out from the show, I took it starting Thursday night, giving me 2 days. I peaked for the morning show for sure was my tightest, I had no problem filling out either doing things the way I did them. My problem was for the night show was not related to diuretics at all, hack I was still very tight at night, but WAY fuller. Sometimes I think the judges at certain levels go for that look over the more conditioned guy if it's a close one.

[IronMan]

Crazy pics IronMan.. you look awesome.. no homo. Can I ask your age?

Turned 27 April 30th. Just a young lad.

[LIVEHARD]

YOu looked great well done !!!!!!!!!!!! :flagC

[Praetorian]

Turned 27 April 30th. Just a young lad.

You can definitely see how much you flattened out...next time youll do much better!!
P

[Praetorian]

I have been training hard for twelve week no with missed workouts.

I just finished week 8 of a Test 400 cycle


I took this week off feeling burnt working long shifts the last few weeks diet and ZZZ's got a bit F'ked up hence the burn out

I switched gyms and I'm starting a 5 day split as of monday


HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT A WEEK OFF MID CYCLE ??

I dont like to do it...but sometimes its necessary...I always take a week twice a year minimum...as well I cycle my trainging to avoid CNS burnout.
P

[Praetorian]

How much cardio would one need to do if its HIIT to equal 1 hour of low intensity cardio at a heart rate of 120bpm?

im just bored of it to do it that long or sometimes no time and was looking to for an alternative, i know HIIT can be done in shorter time, so how much would be equal to that, or ball park figure??

thanks

You cant really equate the two...one is used on low carb low fat diets and the other on keto normally...they both use different fuel sources...its not just equivalent calories.
P

[LIVEHARD]

I dont like to do it...but sometimes its necessary...I always take a week twice a year minimum...as well I cycle my trainging to avoid CNS burnout.
P

Cycle training ?? CNs burnout ?? please explain

[Praetorian]

Cycle training ?? CNs burnout ?? please explain

CNS-central nervous system...burnout from training too many times to failure, too many sets, training HIT for too long etc

Cycling training, ie trainign HIT for a few weeks then upping volume and lowering intensity, changing reps schemes, using a variety of exercises ie conjugate method...not doing heavy bench every monday etc
P

[LIVEHARD]

CNS-central nervous system...burnout from training too many times to failure, too many sets, training HIT for too long etc

Cycling training, ie trainign HIT for a few weeks then upping volume and lowering intensity, changing reps schemes, using a variety of exercises ie conjugate method...not doing heavy bench every monday etc
P

I just swiched back to a 5 day as of monday
1 back
2 chest
3 off
4 legs
5 shoulders
6 arms
7 off

I do a week heavy 6- 8 reps then medium 8-12 then a light 12-15rep

every week has a different volume exercise set scheme

how does that sound to you

i think i was burnt from working 16 hour days and bad eating poorly