Q&A with Praetorian - National Level Competitor

[leborg]

Ok first off the cycle for the show was way overkill and not run correctly...i wont really get in to that right now because its over so let smove on.
To gain mass offseason its not about tonnes of gear or exotic stacks etc that is a complete newbie belief. A 16 week cycle with 4 compounds is all you need.
week 1-8 test cyp 200-250mg EOD
week 1-8 EQ/deca 150-200mg EOD
week 9-16 test enanthate 200-250mg EOD
week 9-16 tren acetate 75-100mg EOD

Orals not necessary, AI only if you have gyno issues, no dieting compounds at the end...

P

Hi P.

I'm curious to know why you are suggesting EQ for only 8 weeks? I thought EQ was usually for 12+ weeks cycle?

Thanks.

[Praetorian]

HCG? and only run it for a week?

Usually two weeks of HCG.
P

[Praetorian]

Hi P.

I'm curious to know why you are suggesting EQ for only 8 weeks? I thought EQ was usually for 12+ weeks cycle?

Thanks.

Blood levels of EQ rise much faster than most people think they do...8 weeks is fine.
P

[fathead]

longish cycle is coming to a close in about 2 weeks from now... normally i run very mild pct protocols and have never used hcg. my testicles never really shrink up on me a whole lot (not that i notice) the only thing i ever find is that my libido decreases towards the end of the cycle (lots of equ+var and a low dose prop).

how would you recommend running hcg for a first timer here and would you think it would help with libido? also what would you use for pct in my situtaion... keeping in mind clomid makes me crazy and get brutal ance.

thanks

[Praetorian]

longish cycle is coming to a close in about 2 weeks from now... normally i run very mild pct protocols and have never used hcg. my testicles never really shrink up on me a whole lot (not that i notice) the only thing i ever find is that my libido decreases towards the end of the cycle (lots of equ+var and a low dose prop).

how would you recommend running hcg for a first timer here and would you think it would help with libido? also what would you use for pct in my situtaion... keeping in mind clomid makes me crazy and get brutal ance.

thanks

Depending on your age you be able to get away with running 1000iu HCG ETD for a total of 5000iu. Start clomid after that at 50mg BID for two weeks. Concurrently run 12.5mg aromasin ED until a week after finishing the clomid...then get blood work done. If you have acne issue try using Apo-Amoxi-Clav 500-125mg...its an antibiotic which will prevent or clear acne quite quickly and does not affect protein synthesis...ask your Dr for it.
As for clomid making you crazy...youll have to deal with it...try taking 5-HTP and Gaba...should help moods.
P

[Vitamin S]

Hey P,

if one is on a 16 or 20 week pre-contest diet, can they get away by just using an eca stack or say something like vpx meltdown for the duration or are other hardcore fat burners such as clen, t3 etc needed.

i can't tolderate clen bad cramps, and don't wanna try t3.

i know diet and cardio are the key but just curious. thanks.

[fathead]

Depending on your age you be able to get away with running 1000iu HCG ETD for a total of 5000iu. Start clomid after that at 50mg BID for two weeks. Concurrently run 12.5mg aromasin ED until a week after finishing the clomid...then get blood work done. If you have acne issue try using Apo-Amoxi-Clav 500-125mg...its an antibiotic which will prevent or clear acne quite quickly and does not affect protein synthesis...ask your Dr for it.
As for clomid making you crazy...youll have to deal with it...try taking 5-HTP and Gaba...should help moods.
P

etd= every 2 days?

so 1000ius hcg every other day starting when? and the clomid etc starting immediately after the last shot hcg? and what is the timing of all of these steps in relation to the gear?

i plan to be on low dose prop and a bunch of equ and var until the end of sept...

[ubcpower]

P, what do you know about L-Carnitine? experiences with it? possibly an alternative to use with caffeine instead of ephedrine which i know you are opposed to?

[Praetorian]

Hey P,

if one is on a 16 or 20 week pre-contest diet, can they get away by just using an eca stack or say something like vpx meltdown for the duration or are other hardcore fat burners such as clen, t3 etc needed.

i can't tolderate clen bad cramps, and don't wanna try t3.

i know diet and cardio are the key but just curious. thanks.

ECA is by far much harsher on the body then clen. The sides and after effects are more drastic and longer lasting. T3 if used responsibly is actually quite safe with few sides. Cramps from clen come from incorrect dosing, not ramping up correcly, taurine deficiency...all of which can be alleviated with the correct information.
If your diet is tight and you are not shying away from cardio...i would always recommend clen over ECA. It is also much better at fat burning then ECA by far.

P

[Praetorian]

etd= every 2 days?

so 1000ius hcg every other day starting when? and the clomid etc starting immediately after the last shot hcg? and what is the timing of all of these steps in relation to the gear?

i plan to be on low dose prop and a bunch of equ and var until the end of sept...

ETD=every third day. EOD is every other day. You should stop the var and EQ now. The prop keep running at 100mg EOD until the end of Sept. Start the HCG 2nd week of Sept at the same time drop the prop to 100mg 3 times week, the fllowing week drop to 100mg twice per week.
Oct week 1 prop 100mg EOD
Oct week 2 prop m-w-f +HCG 1000IU ETD +aromasin 12.5mgED
Oct week 3 Prop m-f + HCG 1000IU ETD+aromasin 12.5mgED
Oct week 4 Clomid 50mg twice daily +aromasin 12.5mgED
Nov week 1 Clomid 50mg twice daily +aromasin 12.5mgED
Nov week 2 same as above if needed
Nov week 3 blood work

P

[Praetorian]

P, what do you know about L-Carnitine? experiences with it? possibly an alternative to use with caffeine instead of ephedrine which i know you are opposed to?

Basically it is required to transport fatty acids into the mitochondria of the cell during the breakdown of fats for the generation of energy. The body does produce L-carnitine on its own. Taking more supposedly may increase the amount of fatty acid transport...hence an increase in fat loss. Ive never used it so i cant say from experience but i have not seen any dramatic evidence yet.
It is nothing like ephedrine which is a stimulant and works much differently.

If you want an alternative I would suggest Lipolyze (non stimulant based fat burner) by Species along with a small amount of caffeine.

P

[Vitamin S]

ok thanks P

if not too much to ask or if its already been posted what is the correct way to take t3 and clen like dosages length ramping up/down.

also how much taurine is needed and how long before starting clen should one start.

thanks.

[Praetorian]

ok thanks P

if not too much to ask or if its already been posted what is the correct way to take t3 and clen like dosages length ramping up/down.

also how much taurine is needed and how long before starting clen should one start.

thanks.

T3 start at 25mcg daily and increase by 12.5mcg every two weeks to a max of 75mcg. (best to split the dose through the day instead of all at once)
Clen start at 20mcg twice daily and increase by 20mcg every two weeks to a max of 120mcg daily.
Start taurine 000mg daily with clen...up to 1000mg twice daily if symptoms persist.
P

[LIVEHARD]

I'm very close to my PCT time

for body fat loss CKD or KETO i want to be down to under 10% BF

Before my next cycle and I dont want to loose muscle

[Praetorian]

I'm very close to my PCT time

for body fat loss CKD or KETO i want to be down to under 10% BF

Before my next cycle and I dont want to loose muscle

I would never diet on PCT.
P

[Vitamin S]

okay thanks P

so the clen works out to be 12 weeks out of show, and t3 works out to be 10 weeks from show right?

can these be taken togethor? if i want to only pick one which is more effective?


clen (splitting this twice a day)
week 1 20
week 2 20
week 3 40
week 4 40
week 5 60
week 6 60
week 7 80
week 8 80
week 9 100
week 10 100
week 11 120
week 12 120

and t3 (splitting this thru out the day)
week 1 25
week 2 25
week 3 37.5
week 4 37.5
week 5 50
week 6 50
week 7 62.5
week 8 62.5
week 9 75
week 10 75


also i don't see you mention tapering it dow? can i stop cold turkey or what is the method of coming off?

and taurine is that 000mg suppose to read 1000mg?

thanks again big guy

[Vitamin S]

hey P,

forearms locking up?

u have heard of exp this before?

when ever i do back and biceps this happens to me? im considering splitting them up but sometimes due to busy schedule in the week i throw them after back.

about 2-3 hours later they start locking up like last night i made a fast sudden move to grab the cell phone and the damn forearms locked up and it was spasming when i was trying to release very annoying and painfull. its like uncontrollbe unvoluntary action.

a few things i notcied, this happens regardless of straps or not. but the one thing i did notice is that when i do v-bar pull downs to chest this happens or v-bar ros to chest.

im confused as i am not missing elctrolytes etc, i only get this when i do back and im fully hydrated.

any thoughts?

[metalman]

P,

Just read the whole thread. Thanks a ton for what you are contributing here, it is very much appreciated by all. Quick question for you.

-How much do you or any other reputable bodybuilding coaches charge, and would you recommend any serious beginner(never competed) athlete to get a coach?

[Praetorian]

okay thanks P

so the clen works out to be 12 weeks out of show, and t3 works out to be 10 weeks from show right?

can these be taken togethor? if i want to only pick one which is more effective?


clen (splitting this twice a day)
week 1 20
week 2 20
week 3 40
week 4 40
week 5 60
week 6 60
week 7 80
week 8 80
week 9 100
week 10 100
week 11 120
week 12 120

and t3 (splitting this thru out the day)
week 1 25
week 2 25
week 3 37.5
week 4 37.5
week 5 50
week 6 50
week 7 62.5
week 8 62.5
week 9 75
week 10 75


also i don't see you mention tapering it dow? can i stop cold turkey or what is the method of coming off?

and taurine is that 000mg suppose to read 1000mg?

thanks again big guy

You run both compounds together for 16 weeks...the total length of the diet. Once you hit the max dose just leave it there and continue to the end. Yes you need to taper.
T3 after show drop to 25mcg daily for 10 days then 12.5 mcg daily for 7 days then 12.5 mcg EOD for 7 days done.
Clen drop to 20mcg twice daily for 10 days then 20mcg daily for 7 days done
Yes 000 was meant to mean 1000mg.
P

[Praetorian]

P,

Just read the whole thread. Thanks a ton for what you are contributing here, it is very much appreciated by all. Quick question for you.

-How much do you or any other reputable bodybuilding coaches charge, and would you recommend any serious beginner(never competed) athlete to get a coach?

A beginner needs to get a few years of serious training under their belt in order to put on some size prior to competing. It woudl be a good idea to at least check with an experienced trainer (someone who lifts decent weight...ie 500 deads, 400 bench, 5oo squat) to learn the correct way to train to begin with. Once you figure out the correct technique and how to focus you can work on yoru own. When preparing for a contest I would then suggest finding a good coach...someone with a decent track record of athletes.
P

[Vitamin S]

THANKS AGAIN P,

if i plan on starting pct right after my show how would i taper the clen and t3 as outline by you into that. i mean isn't it catabolic to be on t3 and clen?? i would stop all cardio while on pct and intensity would be high but shorter duration workouts.

thanks.

[Praetorian]

THANKS AGAIN P,

if i plan on starting pct right after my show how would i taper the clen and t3 as outline by you into that. i mean isn't it catabolic to be on t3 and clen?? i would stop all cardio while on pct and intensity would be high but shorter duration workouts.

thanks.

After the show drop test to 500mg weekly for two weeks and at the same time start the T3 and clen taper...once finished start PCT. You can still do a bit of cardio....3 times weekly 20-30 min low intensity is ok. Workouts would be less volume and not to failure.
P

[tiramisu]

Cardio while Bulking?

I'm just about week 6 of a 12 week bulking cycle and unsurprisingly I'm getting bulky.
1-6 250 test e eod / 200 npp eod
7-12 250 test e eod / 100 tren a eod

I'm using a DC style template and both strength and size are going up visibly
Weight is up from 210 @ 10% to 230 @ 14 % (I think I've accumulated a little under 10 pounds of meat so far)

The plan was/is no cardio for the first 6 weeks and eat like a horse (4k, lots of protein and no significiant constraint on carbs/fat but no shit food)

THEN 6 weeks constraining carbs/fat (3k cals) with progressively increasing low intensity cardio starting @ 1 hour 4 days / week and increasing to 1 hour 7 days per week with a goal of coming down to 220 @ 8% ( about 13 pounds of meat)

Last year I simply kept eating from sept-dec going up to 250 and fat and keto diieted down to 210 @ 10% over 20 weeks. It did put 30 pounds of meat on.

So the question is:

Is this a good/average/weak plan or simply the ravings of a retarded monkey?
And what is this fascination I have with meat?

thanks,
t.

[Jimdawg]

I'm an amateur level bodybuilder and have only done a few shows. I've always placed top three for the shows that I've done the past 2 years, but from talking to the guys who take overall, they don't cycle off. If they do it is for a month or two tops. I thought the general rule was time on = time off, rather than coasting through to your next cycle with a 250mg shot of test at the least. What is your take on coasting through rather than taking a lot of time off?

[Praetorian]

Cardio while Bulking?

I'm just about week 6 of a 12 week bulking cycle and unsurprisingly I'm getting bulky.
1-6 250 test e eod / 200 npp eod
7-12 250 test e eod / 100 tren a eod

I'm using a DC style template and both strength and size are going up visibly
Weight is up from 210 @ 10% to 230 @ 14 % (I think I've accumulated a little under 10 pounds of meat so far)

The plan was/is no cardio for the first 6 weeks and eat like a horse (4k, lots of protein and no significiant constraint on carbs/fat but no shit food)

THEN 6 weeks constraining carbs/fat (3k cals) with progressively increasing low intensity cardio starting @ 1 hour 4 days / week and increasing to 1 hour 7 days per week with a goal of coming down to 220 @ 8% ( about 13 pounds of meat)

Last year I simply kept eating from sept-dec going up to 250 and fat and keto diieted down to 210 @ 10% over 20 weeks. It did put 30 pounds of meat on.

So the question is:

Is this a good/average/weak plan or simply the ravings of a retarded monkey?
And what is this fascination I have with meat?

thanks,
t.

To be quite honest it does not seem very efficient at all. In the offseason your goal is muscle and a maximum amount with minimum fat. Thus eating should be regulated for that. The carb intake will be moderate for each mea and if weight gain is evident without much fat it can remain there. If not it can be increased. If you are putting too much fat on then your diet is off. You shouldnt be doing that much cardio to prevent fat gain. As well offseason and dieting are two distinct phases. You dont combine the two. Once you finish offseason you can transition into a diet phase and the primary goal is fat loss. This way is much more efficient and less taxning on the CNS.
P

[Praetorian]

I'm an amateur level bodybuilder and have only done a few shows. I've always placed top three for the shows that I've done the past 2 years, but from talking to the guys who take overall, they don't cycle off. If they do it is for a month or two tops. I thought the general rule was time on = time off, rather than coasting through to your next cycle with a 250mg shot of test at the least. What is your take on coasting through rather than taking a lot of time off?

You are either on or off...there is nothing else. Coasting, bridging, whatever you want to call it equals on...period! If you cant come off , run PCT and normalize your hormones etc you shouldnt be taking gear. These guys you speak of wont go far nor are they very intelligent so my advice to you is dont listen to them. Going off doesnt have to mean muscle loss and crashing...thats doing things incorrectly. You dont need to be off for as long as you were on either...8 weeks is normally sufficient for most to balance hormones and be ready for another cycle. Blood work is essential and youll need to do that after PCT prior to starting another cycle.
P

[Vitamin S]

when u mention 8 weeks is enough time to go back on a cycle is that after pct or is that with pct included?

[Praetorian]

when u mention 8 weeks is enough time to go back on a cycle is that after pct or is that with pct included?

I didnt say 8 weeks is enough...i said it normally is enough...and that blood work will determine if that is the case. The 8 weeks inlcludes PCT.
P

[L3]

Hey P,

I am having ~1800 calories from mostly complex carbs (about 90%) from about 8am to 5pm, then i workout, then i have another ~900 calories mixed complex and simple.

On top of that animal protein and minimal fat.

My problem, ive been feeling like absolute shit pretty much since i started this diet, could this amount of carbs be a factor from the nutritional perspective?

Its been suggested to me to try ALA with every meal for insulin control, any thoughts on that?

Thanks a lot!

[BEANPOLENB]

Hi praetorian, thanks for the doing this thread. Do you think that your 16 week bulking cycle is overkill for a non-competitive bodybuilder? I'm bulking up for a firefighting course and wrestling. My cycle history is 10 weeks 500 mg/week test and 17 weeks 750 test+400 deca+dbol all with no sides except hcg(acne on shoulders).

[Praetorian]

Hey P,

I am having ~1800 calories from mostly complex carbs (about 90%) from about 8am to 5pm, then i workout, then i have another ~900 calories mixed complex and simple.

On top of that animal protein and minimal fat.

My problem, ive been feeling like absolute shit pretty much since i started this diet, could this amount of carbs be a factor from the nutritional perspective?

Its been suggested to me to try ALA with every meal for insulin control, any thoughts on that?

Thanks a lot!

Try having 6-7 balanced meals daily. 50g pro+50g carbs +15g fat....see how that goes...you can adjust the fat content for extra calories and the carb content for more energy if required....see how you feel first.
P

[z83]

Hey P,

What's your Mr O prediction ?

[gsxr750]

Eating regular whole eggs instead of the Omega-3 whole eggs recommended in some diets, going to make or break me dieting?

I can get regular eggs about 1/4 the price that's the only reason I ask..

Thanks P!

[GYMBRAT]

Hey Pra what's your take on training a sore body part, yay or nay?

[Praetorian]

Hey P,

What's your Mr O prediction ?

Top 5

1. Kai Greene
2. Phil Heath
3. Victor Martinez
4. Dexter Jackson
5. Dennis Wolf

P

[Praetorian]

Eating regular whole eggs instead of the Omega-3 whole eggs recommended in some diets, going to make or break me dieting?

I can get regular eggs about 1/4 the price that's the only reason I ask..

Thanks P!

Wont make any difference in your conditioning...youll just be eating more saturated fat which is not that healthy.
P

[Praetorian]

Hey Pra what's your take on training a sore body part, yay or nay?

Yes you can train a sore bodypart...as long as you give it a few days rest.
P

[Sandwiches]

...

[gsxr750]

^^ LOL!

Thanks P.

[Praetorian]

hey P.. apple bottom jeans, boots with the _ _ _?

fur

P

[GYMBRAT]

Yes you can train a sore bodypart...as long as you give it a few days rest.
P

cool thanks

[Sandwiches]

...

[Talo]

BCAA's would you recommend taking them in doses during training , pre / post or taking them all day long sipping on them in say a 4L jug with aprox 30g BCAA's ?

[Praetorian]

BCAA's would you recommend taking them in doses during training , pre / post or taking them all day long sipping on them in say a 4L jug with aprox 30g BCAA's ?

I dont recommend them. If you are getting adequate protein from food and a good whey isolate there is no need for BCAA's...you are getting more then enough.
P

[Talo]

Thanks

[_Ragnar_]

Whats your take on knee wraps. I have had knee problems for the better part of my life and don`t want to risk injury and have to miss work.

[Praetorian]

Whats your take on knee wraps. I have had knee problems for the better part of my life and don`t want to risk injury and have to miss work.

Ive used knee wraps for the last 20 years training....but only on my reallyheavy sets...ie 500lbs and over. This of course is relative to most people. I wouldnt advise using them until you can push some decent weight ie maxing around 405 for a few reps. Also you need to learn how to wrap correctly. Wraps work by increasing internal pressure and thus providing stability.
P

[kloan]

.......

[Praetorian]

Hi praetorian, thanks for the doing this thread. Do you think that your 16 week bulking cycle is overkill for a non-competitive bodybuilder? I'm bulking up for a firefighting course and wrestling. My cycle history is 10 weeks 500 mg/week test and 17 weeks 750 test+400 deca+dbol all with no sides except hcg(acne on shoulders).

Sorry B must have just missed it...my 16 week offseason program is designed based on the individual clients needs, experience , history etc. So the program is different for everyone.
Not all clients are BB's so it changes depending on there goals.
P

[L3]

hey P, thanks for the response... now i'm gonna take it into a different direction if you would please give your input:

im tired of playing the mass game for a variety of reasons. i'm planning to start the Palumbo Diet next week...but ive been on 250Test E EOD since August 1st. My last shot was 2 days ago. I don't want to diet on PCT, so i was thinking about extending my cycle for 2 months. I would go down to 500mg EW instead of 750.

My body responds very well to keto, and 8 weeks will have me down at the bf i want. When i start PCT i will reintroduce carbs.

Does this seem reasonable?

[Praetorian]

hey P, thanks for the response... now i'm gonna take it into a different direction if you would please give your input:

im tired of playing the mass game for a variety of reasons. i'm planning to start the Palumbo Diet next week...but ive been on 250Test E EOD since August 1st. My last shot was 2 days ago. I don't want to diet on PCT, so i was thinking about extending my cycle for 2 months. I would go down to 500mg EW instead of 750.

My body responds very well to keto, and 8 weeks will have me down at the bf i want. When i start PCT i will reintroduce carbs.

Does this seem reasonable?

The cycle would be 16 weeks total I assume...500 test per week is fine for dieting...that would work...youll need a decent PCT...HCG most likely.
P

[L3]

The cycle would be 16 weeks total I assume...500 test per week is fine for dieting...that would work...youll need a decent PCT...HCG most likely.
P

20 weeks total, been on hcg the entire time.

thanks!

[Praetorian]

20 weeks total, been on hcg the entire time.

thanks!

You may still need it for recovery...thats a long cycle.
P

[nii]

You mentioned earlier that mixing hcg and any hormone (ie test) in a syringe will most likely make the hcg ineffective. Point taken.

What about instead of using bac water for hcg you use B12? Would this in any way harm the hcg?

[Praetorian]

You mentioned earlier that mixing hcg and any hormone (ie test) in a syringe will most likely make the hcg ineffective. Point taken.

What about instead of using bac water for hcg you use B12? Would this in any way harm the hcg?

I would suggest using the HCG as the manufacturer intended...that means not with B12. If you want to take B12 fine take it...but take the HCG the correct way.
P

[GYMBRAT]

Just curious, how long you figure it takes to start dropping muscle/strength etc from having no access to a gym? Is it a complete 1 step forward 2 steps back scenario, if off for say a mth or two? Or does "Muscle Memory" play a decent factor?

Thanks
GB

[fathead]

so sounds like you shouldn't mix hcg and gh in the same slin pin....

can you take them both at the same time (ie 7am) if you use 2 different pins? any reason to change this timing?

[Praetorian]

[QUOTE=GYMBRAT;271370]Just curious, how long you figure it takes to start dropping muscle/strength etc from having no access to a gym? Is it a complete 1 step forward 2 steps back scenario, if off for say a mth or two? Or does "Muscle Memory" play a decent factor?

Thanks
GB[/QUOTED

Difficult to say...some hold it longer than others. It does return fairly quickly with muscle memory yes. One or two weeks off shouldnt cause any issues however more than that can.
P

[Praetorian]

so sounds like you shouldn't mix hcg and gh in the same slin pin....

can you take them both at the same time (ie 7am) if you use 2 different pins? any reason to change this timing?

I would never mix them no. You can take them at the same time no problem.
P

[Talo]

I've never taken anything other than natural supplements to help me in the gym , but I have always thought about doing something more. I'm 31yrs old 235lbs aprox 16% bf. My strength is still coming up with my current training , but my size has stalled , if and when I put on weight it's usually in the mid section.

What would you suggest a good starting point be if I wanted to increase my strength and lower my bodyfat while holding on to my 235lbs ? I feel like my diet could use some tweaking , but I've got a grasp on that.

Thanks.

[Shaun73]

prae, I noticed you like to pin long esters eod. Does it really make a difference if i pin for example test e and deca 2x a week? Its just soo much more convenient that way. Im doing a short ester cycle for my show prep right now and i hate pinning ed or eod. Im running test prop, eq, tran,ace and winny. Its also kinda bait pinning ed as i live with my family and dont have much privacy.

[Praetorian]

I've never taken anything other than natural supplements to help me in the gym , but I have always thought about doing something more. I'm 31yrs old 235lbs aprox 16% bf. My strength is still coming up with my current training , but my size has stalled , if and when I put on weight it's usually in the mid section.

What would you suggest a good starting point be if I wanted to increase my strength and lower my bodyfat while holding on to my 235lbs ? I feel like my diet could use some tweaking , but I've got a grasp on that.

Thanks.

If you want to lower bodyfat you need to diet and preferrably do cardio as well. By dropping bodyfat your weight will go down...and your strength may dip slightly but should stabalize in a few weeks. Once this happens you can continue to drop fat and lean out while maintaining strength levels. Once you reach your desired bodyfat level you can return to a lean mass program and put on some muscle and improve strength. The overall effect once you gained some lean mass would be similar bodyweight but leaner and stronger.
P

[Praetorian]

prae, I noticed you like to pin long esters eod. Does it really make a difference if i pin for example test e and deca 2x a week? Its just soo much more convenient that way. Im doing a short ester cycle for my show prep right now and i hate pinning ed or eod. Im running test prop, eq, tran,ace and winny. Its also kinda bait pinning ed as i live with my family and dont have much privacy.

Twice weekly will work for test E and deca...its not ideal but it does work.
P

[gsxr750]

I'm 6'1 at 218 roughly 18-20% body fat. I've dietted down to 196 @ 10% and felt I could use a little more mass.

I am contemplating just starting a bulk cycle at 215 @ 20% and then worrying about dieting come spring. (Maybe get 2 bulkers in before then)

Do you recommend against this? Should I really diet down more before 'bulking'? If so why?

My cycle would consist of 500mg Test-E/week and 600mg of EQ.

My diet would be strict based around the Palumbo bulk diet

Thanks P

[Vee79]

P,
Was wondering your thoughs and if you have any experience using both metformin and insulin during a carb load and/or also just post workout during a lean mass/bulk phase.

Was interested in you protocols in each scenario.

I've seen some protocols on other sites, but hey, it ain't you!!!

THANKS!!!

[Vee79]

P,
Was wondering your thoughs and if you have any experience using both metformin and insulin during a carb load and/or also just post workout during a lean mass/bulk phase.

Was interested in you protocols in each scenario.

I've seen some protocols on other sites, but hey, it ain't you!!!

THANKS!!!

[Praetorian]

I'm 6'1 at 218 roughly 18-20% body fat. I've dietted down to 196 @ 10% and felt I could use a little more mass.

I am contemplating just starting a bulk cycle at 215 @ 20% and then worrying about dieting come spring. (Maybe get 2 bulkers in before then)

Do you recommend against this? Should I really diet down more before 'bulking'? If so why?

My cycle would consist of 500mg Test-E/week and 600mg of EQ.

My diet would be strict based around the Palumbo bulk diet

Thanks P

As long as you dont put much fat on during the gaining cycle you should be fine. The Palumbo offseason should keep fat gain in check...500 test is a bit low with 600EQ...have you done many cycles?
P

[gsxr750]

No sir, highest I ever went was 150mg Test-E 2x a week with anavar and HCG.

I have prescribed delatestryl Test-E at 200mg/mL + HCG, and EQ at 300mg/mL. Also anavar. What would you recommend?

I've never done a bulk cycle with AAS only dietted

[Praetorian]

P,
Was wondering your thoughs and if you have any experience using both metformin and insulin during a carb load and/or also just post workout during a lean mass/bulk phase.

Was interested in you protocols in each scenario.

I've seen some protocols on other sites, but hey, it ain't you!!!

THANKS!!!

Ive tried both insulin and metformin during a carb load...both times ended up with too much water retention. I run a keto diet and thus am very sensitive to carbs when carbing up...i find it is really unnecessary to use slin or met when carbing. It just adds in another variable that can backfire. I prefer to keep things simple.
P

[Praetorian]

[QUOTE=gsxr750;273897]No sir, highest I ever went was 150mg Test-E 2x a week with anavar and HCG.

I have prescribed delatestryl Test-E at 200mg/mL + HCG, and EQ at 300mg/mL. Also anavar. What would you recommend?

I've never done a bulk cycle with AAS only dietted[/QUOT

IMO 500test E plus 400EQ should be plenty. Im not fond of orals...I've found even var kills appetite.
P

[gsxr750]

Thank you very much as always P. I will start this soon with 110% dedication. I hope you don't mind if I continue to chime in here and pick your brain as I progress

Going to do at least 14 weeks.

1-14 (250mg Test-E 2x a week)
1-14 (200mg EQ 2x a week)

350iu HCG 3x a week throughout
1.25mg finasteride ED

1-Shoulders/traps/calves
2-Biceps/triceps
3-Legs
4-Off(abs, cardio)
5-Chest
6-Back
7-Off(abs, cardio)

MEAL 1:
6 whole eggs with 1 cup of Oatmeal

MEAL 2: (pre-workout)
55g Whey Protein + 40g oatmeal + tablespoon of Natural PB

GYM: WEIGHT TRAINING

MEAL 3: (post-workout)
55g Whey Protein + 50g oatmeal ground into shake

MEAL 4:
8oz lean meat + 1/3 cup nutts + 1 cup brown rice

MEAL 5:
8oz red meat + salad with 2 tablespoon of olive oil and vinegar + 1 baked potato or yam

MEAL 6: Repeat One of Above

MEAL 7: 5 whole eggs




Any glaring problems there?

[Praetorian]

Thank you very much as always P. I will start this soon with 110% dedication. I hope you don't mind if I continue to chime in here and pick your brain as I progress

Going to do at least 14 weeks.

1-14 (250mg Test-E 2x a week)
1-14 (200mg EQ 2x a week)

350iu HCG 3x a week throughout
1.25mg finasteride ED

1-Shoulders/traps/calves
2-Biceps/triceps
3-Legs
4-Off(abs, cardio)
5-Chest
6-Back
7-Off(abs, cardio)

MEAL 1:
6 whole eggs with 1 cup of Oatmeal

MEAL 2: (pre-workout)
55g Whey Protein + 40g oatmeal + tablespoon of Natural PB

GYM: WEIGHT TRAINING

MEAL 3: (post-workout)
55g Whey Protein + 50g oatmeal ground into shake

MEAL 4:
8oz lean meat + 1/3 cup nutts + 1 cup brown rice

MEAL 5:
8oz red meat + salad with 2 tablespoon of olive oil and vinegar + 1 baked potato or yam

MEAL 6: Repeat One of Above

MEAL 7: 5 whole eggs




Any glaring problems there?

Looks good to me.
P

[Vitamin S]

Hi P,

can u hover over my lean mass off season diet below and provide feedback (thoughts, changes etc) thanks.

Meal 1
50g whey protein shake
1tbsp Extra Virgin Olive Oil
1 cup oatmeal in water with pack of splenda
Meal 2
1 cup egg whites
1/3 cup cashews
Meal 3
50g whey protein shake
3 tbsp natural peanut butter
Meal 4
8oz of lean meat
1/3 cup almonds
Meal 5 (post workout shake)
50g whey protein shake
½ cup dextrose with ½ cup maltodextrin
Meal 6
8oz of lean meat
1 medium-large sized boiled potato
1 bowl of large mixed green salad with 2tbsp ranch dressing or similar
Meal 7
50g whey protein shake
1tbsp Extra Virgin Olive Oil
Supplements
Preworkout – superpump 250 or equivalent
Vitamin C 2 grams daily in 2 dosages
Vitamin E with selenium split into 2 dosages
Fish Oils split into 2 dosages

Also if I am trying to gain size/muscle but not at the expense of too much fat gain, what is the max amout of cardio (frequency and duration) I can slap at the end of my workout? Ill keep it low intensity around 120-125bpm.

Thanks again P

[Praetorian]

Hi P,

can u hover over my lean mass off season diet below and provide feedback (thoughts, changes etc) thanks.

Meal 1
50g whey protein shake
1tbsp Extra Virgin Olive Oil
1 cup oatmeal in water with pack of splenda
Meal 2
1 cup egg whites
1/3 cup cashews
Meal 3
50g whey protein shake
3 tbsp natural peanut butter
Meal 4
8oz of lean meat
1/3 cup almonds
Meal 5 (post workout shake)
50g whey protein shake
½ cup dextrose with ½ cup maltodextrin
Meal 6
8oz of lean meat
1 medium-large sized boiled potato
1 bowl of large mixed green salad with 2tbsp ranch dressing or similar
Meal 7
50g whey protein shake
1tbsp Extra Virgin Olive Oil
Supplements
Preworkout – superpump 250 or equivalent
Vitamin C 2 grams daily in 2 dosages
Vitamin E with selenium split into 2 dosages
Fish Oils split into 2 dosages

Also if I am trying to gain size/muscle but not at the expense of too much fat gain, what is the max amout of cardio (frequency and duration) I can slap at the end of my workout? Ill keep it low intensity around 120-125bpm.

Thanks again P

You arent going to grow much on that at all...you need carbs offseason to spare protein and for energy not to mention a boost in insulin. I would eliminate the cardio as well...you either grow, maintain, or diet...stop trying to do more than one.
P

[Vitamin S]

so how much more should i add, i assume i should just add more carbs how much??

is the protein and fat fine? i weight 215 at 11 percent body fat?


so no cardio at all, i was only gonna do 30 mins 3 x a week for quality lean muscle instead of sloppy muscle or 20mins every other workout (low intensity) after weights.


thanks P

[Praetorian]

so how much more should i add, i assume i should just add more carbs how much??

is the protein and fat fine? i weight 215 at 11 percent body fat?


so no cardio at all, i was only gonna do 30 mins 3 x a week for quality lean muscle instead of sloppy muscle or 20mins every other workout (low intensity) after weights.


thanks P

6-8 meals 50gpro+50g carbs+15-20gfat...save the cardio for dieting.
P

[leborg]

Hi P.

During my 2 last cycles, I got severe pain in my calves. The pain was located on the outside of the calves. My calves were on fire just doing a 5 minutes walk. I tried massages, streatching, heat and cold, but nothing worked. I searched this forum as well as others, but didn't find anything useful to help me. My calves and legs are very well developped, a lot more than my upper budy.

Cycles looks like this:
end of winter - early spring 09 cycle:

week 1-12: 500 mg/week test400
week 7-12: 50 mg/day winstrol
pct: nolva

mid summer cycle 09

week 1-12: 500 mg/week test 400
week 6-12: 75 mg/eod tren a
week 1-12 : proviron 50 mg/day
week 1-12: 300 mg hcg/e3d
week 1-12: adex ( don't remember the dosage)

diet was fine, low carbs, high fat and proteins, around 3000-3500 cal for cycle 1 and 2750 cal for cycle 2. I didn't bloat very much, and I didn't get fat at all. My goal was to gain some lean mass during winter, and to cut during summer. Taurine, potassium, magnesium, multi vitamins, it didn't help me either.

Are you familiar with a situation like this? What should I do to prevent this during my winter 2010 cycle?

(Sorry for the grammar and ortograph guys, blame stupid PQ's unilingual french schools :D)

[Praetorian]

Hi P.

During my 2 last cycles, I got severe pain in my calves. The pain was located on the outside of the calves. My calves were on fire just doing a 5 minutes walk. I tried massages, streatching, heat and cold, but nothing worked. I searched this forum as well as others, but didn't find anything useful to help me. My calves and legs are very well developped, a lot more than my upper budy.

Cycles looks like this:
end of winter - early spring 09 cycle:

week 1-12: 500 mg/week test400
week 7-12: 50 mg/day winstrol
pct: nolva

mid summer cycle 09

week 1-12: 500 mg/week test 400
week 6-12: 75 mg/eod tren a
week 1-12 : proviron 50 mg/day
week 1-12: 300 mg hcg/e3d
week 1-12: adex ( don't remember the dosage)

diet was fine, low carbs, high fat and proteins, around 3000-3500 cal for cycle 1 and 2750 cal for cycle 2. I didn't bloat very much, and I didn't get fat at all. My goal was to gain some lean mass during winter, and to cut during summer. Taurine, potassium, magnesium, multi vitamins, it didn't help me either.

Are you familiar with a situation like this? What should I do to prevent this during my winter 2010 cycle?

(Sorry for the grammar and ortograph guys, blame stupid PQ's unilingual french schools :D)

Was the pain near the front part of the lower leg ie compartmental syndrome or the calf belly (gastrocnemius) itself?
The cycle really doesnt make any difference regarding the calf issue...but you should plan them better for growth and dieting.
Winstrol offseason is useless not to mention terrible on joints and tendons. I would suggest 500test E plus 400EQ weekly instead. Nolva only for PCT is unlikely to allow for fast recovery. For dieting the cycle looks fine except the proviron is completely redundant if you are running an AI...which by the way is much better at estro control then proviron. 300iu EOD of HCG is overkill...500iu twice weekly is fine.
P

[leborg]

Was the pain near the front part of the lower leg ie compartmental syndrome or the calf belly (gastrocnemius) itself?
The cycle really doesnt make any difference regarding the calf issue...but you should plan them better for growth and dieting.
Winstrol offseason is useless not to mention terrible on joints and tendons. I would suggest 500test E plus 400EQ weekly instead. Nolva only for PCT is unlikely to allow for fast recovery. For dieting the cycle looks fine except the proviron is completely redundant if you are running an AI...which by the way is much better at estro control then proviron. 300iu EOD of HCG is overkill...500iu twice weekly is fine.
P

I'm not sure if it is the gastrocnemius or the soleus. The pain is located near the calf belly, but on the side of the small toe. It's hard to say exactly where the pain is coming from. I got a burn feeling, like if my calves were full of lactic acid.

You're right about PCT. I will never cycle again without hcg (is 300ui e3d ok?)I have clomid, nolva, adex and aromasin if needed. Next cycle will be test E and EQ, as you said.

Thanks for your time.

[Vitamin S]

thanks p will follow as u outlined,

1. if i feel like im putting on fat i know if the quality and source of food is right i shouldn't be, would i change diet, ie drop a few carbs or fats, or leave it be?

2. all of my carbs will be low glycemic only time is post workout ill be using waxy maize unless u suggest a better alternative (would it be wise to still add fats to this meal, or skip the fats in the post workout shake)?

thanks

[powerrack]

Hey bro, any tips for longer limbed guys in the gym, trying to stick to the meat and potatoe movements. I'm 6'2" and always find benching, etc a huge long range of motion. I feel as if I'll never move huge poundages with these long arms and legs. I've never benched more then 315, never squatted more then 455, deadlifting seems to be fine the long arms seem to help.

[Praetorian]

Hey bro, any tips for longer limbed guys in the gym, trying to stick to the meat and potatoe movements. I'm 6'2" and always find benching, etc a huge long range of motion. I feel as if I'll never move huge poundages with these long arms and legs. I've never benched more then 315, never squatted more then 455, deadlifting seems to be fine the long arms seem to help.

First off you need to learn how to do a proper bench. I know everyone thinks they are doing it correctly but are really not even close. Watch this video and learn the proper technique to press. This is not just for powerlifting this is for BB as well...benching is done correctly or incorrectly...there is no such thing as benching for BB...thats BS and leads to injuries.
P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh3t6T-nqP0&feature=player_embedded

[Praetorian]

thanks p will follow as u outlined,

1. if i feel like im putting on fat i know if the quality and source of food is right i shouldn't be, would i change diet, ie drop a few carbs or fats, or leave it be?

2. all of my carbs will be low glycemic only time is post workout ill be using waxy maize unless u suggest a better alternative (would it be wise to still add fats to this meal, or skip the fats in the post workout shake)?

thanks

You will always gain some fat while putting on muscle...get used to it...it is inevitable. If you arent you are eating much too clean and not anywhere near enough food an dyou wont make the gains necessary to put on significant muscle either. If you want to build muscle you need to eat....alot. The idea is to make it predominantly muscle with a little bit of fat.
No fat post workout while on a gaining plan.
P

[natenator]

First off you need to learn how to do a proper bench. I know everyone thinks they are doing it correctly but are really not even close. Watch this video and learn the proper technique to press. This is not just for powerlifting this is for BB as well...benching is done correctly or incorrectly...there is no such thing as benching for BB...thats BS and leads to injuries.
P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh3t6T-nqP0&feature=player_embedded
GREAT video!!!!!!!

[natenator]

You will always gain some fat while putting on muscle...get used to it...it is inevitable. If you arent you are eating much too clean and not anywhere near enough food an dyou wont make the gains necessary to put on significant muscle either. If you want to build muscle you need to eat....alot. The idea is to make it predominantly muscle with a little bit of fat.
No fat post workout while on a gaining plan.
P
Got any more vids like this to share????

[nitrous]

Got any more vids like this to share????

agreed great video! i had to send it to my buddy.. the guy likes to do that little pre bounce and it's really annoying

[Praetorian]

Another good rant-Dave Tate

Refuse and Resist

I will not be as "others"

Came into work today the same as I have any other day over the past month, to much to do and not enough time. I do however get the most important done and that's all that matters.

I made my way into Jim's office and he stated "Not training again today". Maybe he noticed I was wearing my "good" t-shirt and sweat pants and took this as a clue.

It took me about 2 seconds to tell him "nope, just not my thing right now"

He then told me that this "was" my thing.

I had to think for a minute then got what he was saying.

This is the thing when you speak to someone with a zillon.5 IQ. You need to stop and think sometimes because much it meant when little is said.

What he was saying is that I do not know how to "workout" and may have never "worked out" in my life. What I do is "train" and there is a difference.

I am writing this because most who read this site "train" and do not "workout". We who "train" are not as "others" who just go to the gym and do their thing. Our rules are pretty simple and we always manage to get the job done better than the "others" .

We design our programs on torn off pieces of cardboard we find in the back of the gym.

We know the golden rule to success is busting our asses into the ground.

We make training such a high priority that life becomes scheduled around it.

We understand weak points are developed from NOT doing the we do not like to do - so we do it.

We love it when the set gets hard and the weight get heavy.

We don't watch the clock - we are done when we get done.

We understand this is supposed to be hard and the road will not be easy and figure - so be it.

We may read all the training science and logic but always resort back to the same thing that has always worked - busting our asses.

Pain is measured by lack of progress not injuries.

We think about training when we get up in the morning and when we go to bed at night.

We love the sound of another plate being slapped on the bar, or the thud of dumbbells hitting the ground.

The gym is our place to do what we do, not wish about what we could be.

We know when to turn it on and when....

to turn it off.

I am in one of the "off" phases and unless I am going to go in the gym and bust my ass 100% then I am not going. To me it is freaking pointless. I would rather give 100% to something else at this time then give 50% in the gym.

I refuse to give 50% in the gym because this is what "others" do and I ing refuse to be like that, ever!

I had to give up many things in my training over the years but I will not give up busting my ass and be like every other lazy ass person who goes in the gym and gives a half ass effort. Worse yet, being in the industry, making my living in the industry and living a lie training like a half piece of . You can quote me on this one. The day I can no longer "train" and bust my ass in the gym with passion will be the same day I will remove myself from this industry.

Training to me deserves respect and not half ass efforts. I train not as much for the process as I do for the result. I will do what I have to do to get the results I am looking for. If it means I have to train 4 hours per day - so be it. If it means I have to train every day of the week - so be it. If it means whatever, then so be it. I will do what I gotta do when I have to do it. This is training to me. Training is about busting your ass for something others avoid because the road is too hard. Working out is an activity - a verb. Training is more than a verb. It is a way of life.

To give my training the respect it deserves I recharge and will return when I feel ready to go all out. To me working out is not an option. This is what "others" do and I will resist this with all I have.

I train and train my ass off because this is what I do. This is the life I choose and the decision I made. I am not in this to be like "others". I am in this to push myself to places I have not been before - to push the edge. I will never get to see what is over the edge by "working out". I will never find what I seek by the number of "workouts" I get in or how long I can do cardio for. I will never be satisfied with the same results anyone else can get. I am not the guy to show you how to "workout". I am not the one who can help you take the first step. I am not the one to motivate you to begin.

I could care less about this.

Hell, I have not trained people in years. I post this log so you can see what it takes for me to get the results I do (or not). I post this so you know you are not alone in your passion. I know what it is like to be surrounded by "others". I know what it feels like when everyone is on your ass about "what you do". I know what it feels like when NOONE understands. I know how it feels to think life is what happens in the gym and everything else is just intermission. Trust me. I know. We are not alone in our passion yet it seems so. So for the other two people out there - know I am with you.

I train because it is what keeps me from being like the rest. Training is my way to not be like the "others". I am not writing this to try and change the world but so the world does not change me - it is that simple.

P

[Talo]

Dave is KING :) I love reading his articles and have many of his books. If you ever want to pick something up by him they are cheat and very informative.

[phatkid77]

****!!! i just watched the vid.... i got the feet dance down...solid....fack

phats

[gsxr750]

P;

My schedule is making it almost impossible to eat every 1.5 - 2 hours on the Palumbo bulker. I have no choice but to combine a few of the meals. Will this cause problems, or anything you'd recommend until my schedule is sorted out?

MEAL 1:
6 whole eggs with 1 cup of Oatmeal + 8oz lean meat + 1/3 cup nutts + 1 cup brown rice

MEAL 2: (pre-workout)
55g Whey Protein + 40g oatmeal + tablespoon of Natural PB

MEAL 3: (post-workout)
55g Whey Protein + 50g oatmeal ground into shake

MEAL 4:
8oz red meat + salad with 2 tablespoon of olive oil and vinegar + 1 baked potato or yam + 55g Whey Protein + 40g oatmeal + tablespoon of Natural PB

MEAL 5: 5 whole eggs

[Praetorian]

[QUOTE=gsxr750;275665]P;

My schedule is making it almost impossible to eat every 1.5 - 2 hours on the Palumbo bulker. I have no choice but to combine a few of the meals. Will this cause problems, or anything you'd recommend until my schedule is sorted out?

MEAL 1:
6 whole eggs with 1 cup of Oatmeal + 8oz lean meat + 1/3 cup nutts + 1 cup brown rice

MEAL 2: (pre-workout)
55g Whey Protein + 40g oatmeal + tablespoon of Natural PB

MEAL 3: (post-workout)
55g Whey Protein + 50g oatmeal ground into shake

MEAL 4:
8oz red meat + salad with 2 tablespoon of olive oil and vinegar + 1 baked potato or yam + 55g Whey Protein + 40g oatmeal + tablespoon of Natural PB

MEAL 5: 5 whole eggs[/QUO


You only need to eat approx every three hours...which is very easy when using shakes etc...you can get in 6-7 meals easily doing this.
P

[Vitamin S]

hey p,

dave tate says to really mass up u have to do the opposite of a cutter and that is to slow metabolism down by eat lots but less often. so intead of 6 smaller meals he says eat 3 large meals with same daily nutrient breakdown?

does this make sense, would i be able to do that with palumo bulker just combine the 6 meals into 3 with (meal/shake) being one meal.

[z83]

hey p,

dave tate says to really mass up u have to do the opposite of a cutter and that is to slow metabolism down by eat lots but less often. so intead of 6 smaller meals he says eat 3 large meals with same daily nutrient breakdown?

does this make sense, would i be able to do that with palumo bulker just combine the 6 meals into 3 with (meal/shake) being one meal.

curious about the answer

[Praetorian]

hey p,

dave tate says to really mass up u have to do the opposite of a cutter and that is to slow metabolism down by eat lots but less often. so intead of 6 smaller meals he says eat 3 large meals with same daily nutrient breakdown?

does this make sense, would i be able to do that with palumo bulker just combine the 6 meals into 3 with (meal/shake) being one meal.

I dont think that would work all that great for you. Dave is an elite PL and his training is much different than yours not to mention he carries alot more weight so he can eat more. I found for young guys trying to gain you need to eat more often but also not as clean as most do. Things like peanut butter, burgers, pasta with meatsauce etc are necessary because young guys tend to have fairly high metabolisms. I would suggest 6 larger meals not small meals add more fats to each meal (olive oil) to up the calories.
The biggest mistake guys make offseason is eating too little...and not training intensely enough.
P

[Vitamin S]

sounds good P.

if i am only able to train monday to friday, since i work long hours on weekends, would this be okay for an off season routine trying to bulk up.

monday - chest/abs
tuesday - back
wednesday - shoulders
thursday - legs/abs
friday - arms

[Praetorian]

Looks fine.
P

[cheesesteak]

What's your best advice for someone who always second guesses himself? Tough habit for me to break when I lose focus.

[L3]

Hey P,

Can you approximate how long after my cheat meal on a keto diet i will have the most volume in my muscles? 6, 12, 24 hours?

Getting ready for halloween.... you know how it is :).

Appreciate the input as always!

[natenator]

Hey P,

Can you approximate how long after my cheat meal on a keto diet i will have the most volume in my muscles? 6, 12, 24 hours?

Getting ready for halloween.... you know how it is :).

Appreciate the input as always!
LMAO! Your hilarious hahaha

[Vitamin S]

Hey p,

i have always wondered how these pros stay soo damn lean in off seaon like markuz ruhl and cutler with visible abs when the flex in their heaviest weight off season?

also why is it some pros such as cutler or ronnie back in the day even when off season still have some stirations, and overall tightness, where as guys like trey brewer or even centaponi etc to some extent have that diminish and start looking like powerlifters as oppose to bodybuilders, liek can't tell where one muscle starts and ends??

is it just boat loads of gh and t3 even off season, or just tighter dietin and muscle maturarity density.

[JonnyO]

Hey p,

i have always wondered how these pros stay soo damn lean in off seaon like markuz ruhl and cutler with visible abs when the flex in their heaviest weight off season?

also why is it some pros such as cutler or ronnie back in the day even when off season still have some stirations, and overall tightness, where as guys like trey brewer or even centaponi etc to some extent have that diminish and start looking like powerlifters as oppose to bodybuilders, liek can't tell where one muscle starts and ends??

is it just boat loads of gh and t3 even off season, or just tighter dietin and muscle maturarity density.

I noticed this as well, and you may also notice that their lower extremeties arent nearly as lean as their mid section is. Their legs and glutes are very soft as well as their lower back, even though when flexing their abs are showing. Some mistake because they have abs when flexed their bodyfat is low, which is not the case.

[Vitamin S]

yes JonnyO good point, very true. i kow guys that have abs at 11-12 percent when flexed and others when at 10 they don't even see all six i guess its genetics and holding more adipose tissue in belly.

i think guys like david henry are much drier then some heavier guys too, also i've seen some guys that are natural harder and dry as a leaf then some pros, i think it comes down to how hard the guy has dieted, much harder if your natty thats all u can go by.

[Praetorian]

What's your best advice for someone who always second guesses himself? Tough habit for me to break when I lose focus.

Find a decent BB coach.
P

[Praetorian]

Hey P,

Can you approximate how long after my cheat meal on a keto diet i will have the most volume in my muscles? 6, 12, 24 hours?

Getting ready for halloween.... you know how it is :).

Appreciate the input as always!

No idea everyone is different.
P

[Praetorian]

Hey p,

i have always wondered how these pros stay soo damn lean in off seaon like markuz ruhl and cutler with visible abs when the flex in their heaviest weight off season?

also why is it some pros such as cutler or ronnie back in the day even when off season still have some stirations, and overall tightness, where as guys like trey brewer or even centaponi etc to some extent have that diminish and start looking like powerlifters as oppose to bodybuilders, liek can't tell where one muscle starts and ends??

is it just boat loads of gh and t3 even off season, or just tighter dietin and muscle maturarity density.

GH allow syou to remain fairly lean offseason yet eat a tonne of food. The pics you see of most pro BB offseason are not actually offseason...they usually have lost some fat and water for those pics. If youve seen Jay, Ronnie, or Dorian in true offseason they are far from lean.
P

[powerrack]

First off you need to learn how to do a proper bench. I know everyone thinks they are doing it correctly but are really not even close. Watch this video and learn the proper technique to press. This is not just for powerlifting this is for BB as well...benching is done correctly or incorrectly...there is no such thing as benching for BB...thats BS and leads to injuries.
P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh3t6T-nqP0&feature=player_embedded

Hey thanks bro, great link, I used to read a lot of Dave Tate material, but was unaware of these vids on youtube.

[Pharaoh Sphinx]

Hey P.

Dunno if any of these questions have been asked as this threads way to long.

1) When I started cycling my reps/sets/rest-times in changing amounts every week set in a 6 week cycle to create constantly changing variables of intensity to shock the system I started growing significantly faster, have you ever experimented with such a workout concept and if so what were your observations?

2) I always workout in the morning as it sets me up for the day mentally. But sometimes it can be hard to get goin on the workout. What time of day do you prefer to workout and what is your pre-workout meal that youve found gives you your best workouts, how long before the workout do you consume it, and also mention any supplements you take pre-workout?

3) Sometimes theres days when you just dont want to workout, got any tricks/tips for how you get through those days and hammer it out as intense as you do on your good days??

[Praetorian]

Hey P.

Dunno if any of these questions have been asked as this threads way to long.

1) When I started cycling my reps/sets/rest-times in changing amounts every week set in a 6 week cycle to create constantly changing variables of intensity to shock the system I started growing significantly faster, have you ever experimented with such a workout concept and if so what were your observations?

2) I always workout in the morning as it sets me up for the day mentally. But sometimes it can be hard to get goin on the workout. What time of day do you prefer to workout and what is your pre-workout meal that youve found gives you your best workouts, how long before the workout do you consume it, and also mention any supplements you take pre-workout?

3) Sometimes theres days when you just dont want to workout, got any tricks/tips for how you get through those days and hammer it out as intense as you do on your good days??


1) I dont believe in switching things up like that...you need some constants to be able to gauge progress...I use different exercises on a bi-weekly basis but your sets and reps should fall into the category designed for your goals...ie strength, size etc You may see some progress but youll stagnate over time and never hit your potential.

2)I prefer to train in the evening 7pm or so...i like to have most of my meals in before training. Preworkout chicken+rice, steak and potatoe etc, supps before training bit of caffeine thats about it.

3) Ask yourself what you really want...if it is BB then there should be no doubt as to going to the gym!

P

[Vitamin S]

P just wondering what isolation or any exercise for that matter really targets rear delts the best, esp in off season where heaiver weight can be used. i know indirectly rows, and back work hit it too, but i wanna bring that part up this off season to give shoulder more 3d look .

thanks.

[natenator]

P just wondering what isolation or any exercise for that matter really targets rear delts the best, esp in off season where heaiver weight can be used. i know indirectly rows, and back work hit it too, but i wanna bring that part up this off season to give shoulder more 3d look .

thanks.
reverse cable cross-overs (high pully)
bentover DB laterals
reverse pec deck
bent over cable lateral

[ubcpower]

Hey P,
this is kind of a nit-picky question but thought id ask ya. For a.m. fasted state cardio, lets say im using my elliptical at home and i want to maintain a heart rate of around 115-125 bpm. If I am able to achieve this target heart rate at both a lower intensity (Level 10) with a faster pace of 7mph or a higher intensity (level 20) with a slower pace 3mph.....which one do you feel would be better for fburning and less likely to burn muscle? Oh, and not that its really accurate but both options come out to about the same calories burnt on the reader.

thx man

[Praetorian]

Simple answer...the higher the intensity the more chance of burning muscle.
P

[MMASTAR]

what are your thoughts on peptides prea? are you a fan or not so much?

[Praetorian]

You want to use something that works...use real GH. If peptides worked all the pros would be using them...show me one who does?
P

[gustavo77]

Hey bro, couple of quick questions here. I am gonna start another run of GH soon, starting at 2iu per day and working my way up to 4-6iu per day over the course of 1-2 months. Anyways, i am turning 35 in a couple of weeks ( :( ), so should i start taking my GH 1 hour prior to bed time or take it first thing in the morning on the empty stomach like i have in the past?? Also, should i limit my carb intake at night if i am taking it before bed??

Thanks.

[Vitamin S]

hey P what is your intake on protein cycling off season? i was reading what george farrah was saying on another board about how some pros carb cycle pre-contest, would this approach work well with protein in off season (like if your usually have 400g a day and u up it to 500 for a few days and back down again for 3-4 days etc).

i know i also read not sure how true it is but in flex magainze they asked branch about his diet off season and he mentioned he will usually go like 100g above his daily protein intake for 2-3 days and he can really tell the difference in terms of fullness.

make sense but not sure what ur thought?

[Praetorian]

Hey bro, couple of quick questions here. I am gonna start another run of GH soon, starting at 2iu per day and working my way up to 4-6iu per day over the course of 1-2 months. Anyways, i am turning 35 in a couple of weeks ( :( ), so should i start taking my GH 1 hour prior to bed time or take it first thing in the morning on the empty stomach like i have in the past?? Also, should i limit my carb intake at night if i am taking it before bed??

Thanks.


Exogenous GH is best taken during times of low endogenous output...thus the best times would be in the morning with breakfast and late afternoon. The body produces natural GH in a pulsatile fashion with the largest pulse being about 2-3 hours after falling asleep (during REM) thus taking GH close to bedtime would tend to blunt this pulse...this would still work but why not take advantage of your natural GH as well. I prefer morning and post workout.
P

[Praetorian]

hey P what is your intake on protein cycling off season? i was reading what george farrah was saying on another board about how some pros carb cycle pre-contest, would this approach work well with protein in off season (like if your usually have 400g a day and u up it to 500 for a few days and back down again for 3-4 days etc).

i know i also read not sure how true it is but in flex magainze they asked branch about his diet off season and he mentioned he will usually go like 100g above his daily protein intake for 2-3 days and he can really tell the difference in terms of fullness.

make sense but not sure what ur thought?

Im not sure how effective cycling protein would be. It is true however that offseason when we are ingesting more carbs...which are protein sparing we actually need less protein overall. I dont believe in over consuming protein...the body has to work very hard to get rid of unnecessary protein and that will slow gains...not to mention increase fat stores ie neoglucogenesis. I try to consume 1.5g per lb bodyweight on average.
P

[gustavo77]

Exogenous GH is best taken during times of low endogenous output...thus the best times would be in the morning with breakfast and late afternoon. The body produces natural GH in a pulsatile fashion with the largest pulse being about 2-3 hours after falling asleep (during REM) thus taking GH close to bedtime would tend to blunt this pulse...this would still work but why not take advantage of your natural GH as well. I prefer morning and post workout.
P

Firstly, thank you for answer.

I understand that GH taking near bedtime will blunt natural GH output during sleep but i thought that the output at my age (almost 35) would be negligible.

So, at almost 35 years of age i am still producing a fair amount of GH during REM sleep??

Also, are a proponent of not eating carbs around the time GH is taken??

[JacktheThriller]

hey P this thread is awesome

What's your opinion on stimulants on Palumbo diet?
Limited or leave them out?

I'm not running any gear if that makes a difference.

[Praetorian]

Hey bud! What would you recommend for a cure or aid (of the legal nature), for those such as I who continuously hold subcutaneous fat? I constantly do cardio (atleast 30 min/day), drink 4-6 L. of water/day, always eat clean and watch my fat/carb/sodium intake. I'm by no means fat, but I always hold a thick layer of fat. Even when I lean out I have no vascularity and am smooth. Thanks so much, it's greatly appreciated!

Simple answer is you need a proper diet, training and cardio schedule. If you were lean you would be vascular. If you are smooth....thats fat...plain and simple.
P

[Praetorian]

Firstly, thank you for answer.

I understand that GH taking near bedtime will blunt natural GH output during sleep but i thought that the output at my age (almost 35) would be negligible.

So, at almost 35 years of age i am still producing a fair amount of GH during REM sleep??

Also, are a proponent of not eating carbs around the time GH is taken??

Your natural GH production is obviously lower than say a teenager...but it still is worth harnessing. Eating carbs around the time of taking GH makes no difference...GH is commonly taken in the morning with breakfast anyway....the idea being the IGF output will help push the nutrients into the cells...similar to insulin.
P

[Praetorian]

hey P this thread is awesome

What's your opinion on stimulants on Palumbo diet?
Limited or leave them out?

I'm not running any gear if that makes a difference.

The Palumbo dietwill work for anyone on gear or not...stimulants should be avoided as they increase cortisol production...ie muscle loss...the odd cup of coffee is fine.
P

[gustavo77]

Your natural GH production is obviously lower than say a teenager...but it still is worth harnessing. Eating carbs around the time of taking GH makes no difference...GH is commonly taken in the morning with breakfast anyway....the idea being the IGF output will help push the nutrients into the cells...similar to insulin.
P

Awesome...thanks again bro.

[Vitamin S]

hey p,

i know after weights its good to consume fast carbs and protein within the anabolic window time period (i consume waxy maize and whey isolate within 20-30mins after working out)

would the same be true if one was doing a bit of cardio after weights?? or would you wait longer to further prolong the fat burning effects??

thanks

[wan2lrn]

Having major shoulder surgery done anytime soon and could be off of work and working out for up to a year. What do you recommend for speeding up the healing process? GH, adequan, etc?

[Praetorian]

hey p,

i know after weights its good to consume fast carbs and protein within the anabolic window time period (i consume waxy maize and whey isolate within 20-30mins after working out)

would the same be true if one was doing a bit of cardio after weights?? or would you wait longer to further prolong the fat burning effects??

thanks

Are you dieting? If so I recommend a keto diet and thus no carbs in the post workout shake at all.
P

[Praetorian]

Having major shoulder surgery done anytime soon and could be off of work and working out for up to a year. What do you recommend for speeding up the healing process? GH, adequan, etc?

In the long term GH may help. I am not sure if Adequan would help but if you can afford it easily it wouldnt hurt. A good balanced diet, plenty of water, plenty of rest, good sleeps will all help. Once the surgery is finished check with a good sports medicine Doc for rehab...ie physio referral etc
P

[Vitamin S]

no im not dieting, but im not the leanest either so i want to keep my body fat levels in check by doing maybe 20 mins of post workout cardio every other workout or about 2-3 times a week.

also whats the highest a bb should get in terms of body fat percent in off season.

thanks

[Praetorian]

no im not dieting, but im not the leanest either so i want to keep my body fat levels in check by doing maybe 20 mins of post workout cardio every other workout or about 2-3 times a week.

also whats the highest a bb should get in terms of body fat percent in off season.

thanks

Make sure your diet is decent and you can do a bit of cardio offseason...I would suggest doing the cardio at another time than post workout...if you are trying to grow then postworkout is prime for fuel.
P

[MMASTAR]

hey prae, just curious what your stand by supplements are, which ones you wouldnt train with out, thanks.

[Praetorian]

hey prae, just curious what your stand by supplements are, which ones you wouldnt train with out, thanks.

Supps I use daily:

1. A good whey isolate powder
2. Creatine Monohydrate (Creapure)
3. Omega 3-6 fatty acids
4. Waxy Maize carbohydrate powder
5. A decent fiber supplement
6. A decent joint support

P

[JacktheThriller]

Hey P what is your opinion of people that are on gear benching under 200pds?

[JacktheThriller]

Could I get you to elaborate on this? I'm currently in a bulking phase and was going to include a cardio day (between lifting days) consisting of 20 minutes running, 20 mintes abs, followed with 20 minutes arc trainer. Is it just for running or all cardio? Is the stair stepper alright instead? Thanks in advance!

cch


i believe he means keep all your cardio low intensity, runing is high intesity, keep the heart rate low, uphill walking, or bicycle. High intesity cardio switches the body over to endurance mode and off of strength mode, to be simplistic

[nitrous]

Hey P when using a fiber supplement i know you would see a big benefit when cutting but what about when you are bulking? I had fiberlyze in mind.

[trainharder]

My apologies if this has been covered before in an earlier page:

What's your view on High Intensity Interval Training? Even though it's high intensity, would it really cause muscle loss if it's only 20 minutes long (5 min warmup, and 15 of intervals)

[Praetorian]

Hey P what is your opinion of people that are on gear benching under 200pds?

If you cant bench 200lbs you have no business touching gear.
P

[natenator]

If you cant bench 200lbs you have no business touching gear.
P
can we say 225??? lol

[Praetorian]

Could I get you to elaborate on this? I'm currently in a bulking phase and was going to include a cardio day (between lifting days) consisting of 20 minutes running, 20 minutes abs, followed with 20 minutes arc trainer. Is it just for running or all cardio? Thanks in advance!

cch

Offseason HIT cardio is ok on a limited basis....i woudl prefer the use of the stairclimber (Gauntlet) because running will wreak havoc on your joints. I woud only use HIT cardio offseason to improve cardio vascular efficiency and appetite...10-15 mins is usually more than enough.
P

[Praetorian]

i believe he means keep all your cardio low intensity, runing is high intesity, keep the heart rate low, uphill walking, or bicycle. High intesity cardio switches the body over to endurance mode and off of strength mode, to be simplistic

When dieting avoid HIT cardio...of course my diet is keto this is the reason why...if you are eating carbs HIT can be used effectively but I find that route very inefficient.
P

[Praetorian]

Hey P when using a fiber supplement i know you would see a big benefit when cutting but what about when you are bulking? I had fiberlyze in mind.

I dont use as much offseason but it does help keep things moving...especially with all the food we eat offseason.
P

[The Brick]

Hey P,

Apologies if this has been asked, but just curious as to what kinda of training split you follow?

[Praetorian]

Hey P,

Apologies if this has been asked, but just curious as to what kinda of training split you follow?

I prefer a 5 day split...two days on one off followed by three on one off...each muscle group trained once per week on its own day...chest, back, shoulders, arms, legs.
P

[Vitamin S]

hey P,

does hgh need to be tapered up and down?

[Praetorian]

hey P,

does hgh need to be tapered up and down?

It is dose dependant. If you are only running 2iu then no you can start with that...if you plan on running 6-10 iu then yes I would suggest tapering up starting from 2iu and move up 1iu per week...this will help avoid sides such as carpel tunnel etc.
P

[The Brick]

I prefer a 5 day split...two days on one off followed by three on one off...each muscle group trained once per week on its own day...chest, back, shoulders, arms, legs.
P

What kind of volume? sets/reps?

Always interested in what the more advanced guys do for training...

Thanks!

[waderow]

not sure if you talked about this P, but suicide grip bench press....

I worked out with a IFBB pro once, and he insisted I press this way. With him spotting I wasn't so apprehensive, but normally I have no spotter, or if I do, the spotter is a fag that I grab out of the pool of fags in my gay gym. Someone to get the bar moving if I fail and nothing more, and even that simple task may be asking for too much.

I like the idea of having the forearm line up better with the bar, but is it necessary? What are your feelings?

[Praetorian]

not sure if you talked about this P, but suicide grip bench press....

I worked out with a IFBB pro once, and he insisted I press this way. With him spotting I wasn't so apprehensive, but normally I have no spotter, or if I do, the spotter is a fag that I grab out of the pool of fags in my gay gym. Someone to get the bar moving if I fail and nothing more, and even that simple task may be asking for too much.

I like the idea of having the forearm line up better with the bar, but is it necessary? What are your feelings?

Using a false grip while bench pressing is a big mistake IMO. The idea that the forearm lines up better is complete and utter BS. Also it only takes one slip and spotter or not the bar is coming down onto you...ive seen guys drop 405lbs onto themselves doing this...very very dangerous. Not to mention you cannot perform what I consider a correct bench press this way because you are not controlling the bar....the bar is controlling you. You need to squeeze and almost tear the bar apart...tightness is key in the bench press.
One other word of advice...just because someone is an IFBB pro doesnt necessarily mean they know or understand anything about training, nutrition, or aas....believe me on this!!! In many cases it just means they have fantastic genetics...that is all. Just look at some of the in the trench training videos on MD....some are absolutely awful.
P

[Praetorian]

Hey P! The goal is to bulk up. I have a 4 day split. Currently, in this training, I work up to my max weight (that I think I can do 5 reps of) and then do 2 sets to failure, for all my heavy exercises. Is this wrong? Typically I can always match my reps in the 2nd set but is it overloading the muscle and risking injury? I don't mind the extra work, love it actually.. but just wondering if it's beneficial or simply a hindrance... Thanks!

cch

I would suggest three sets to failure. If you are getting the same amount of reps on your second set as your first set with the same weight then your intensity level on your first set is too low or you need to increase the weight.
Here is an example...warm up set 135 for 10, warm up set 185 for 8, warm up 225 for 6, warm up 275 for 2...first working set 315 for 5, second working set 275 for 7-8, third working set, 225 for 9-10.
P

[The Brick]

What kind of volume do you do personally? sets/reps?

Always interested in what the more advanced guys do for training...

Thanks!

[Praetorian]

What kind of volume do you do personally? sets/reps?

Always interested in what the more advanced guys do for training...

Thanks!

Generally three sets to failure on most exercises...it varies however week to week depending on recovery.
P

[gsxr750]

Is there a disadvantage to eating so much whey? I am just trying to eat on a budget. It's only costing me about $20 a week to eat like this for my bulker, and curious to your input. Very much appreciated as always. Currently 6'1 at 240

1- 4 whole eggs 6 egg whites, 2/3 cup dry oatmeal
2- 2 scoups whey, 1 cup whole wheat pasta, 1 tbsp pb
3- 1 steak (size of hockey puck), 1 scoup whey, 1 potatoe
4- 2 scoups whey, 1 cup whole wheat pasta, 1 tbsp olive oil
5- 2 scoups whey, 1 bagel, 1 tbsp pb
6- 2 scoups whey, 2/3 cup dry oatmeal

[Praetorian]

Is there a disadvantage to eating so much whey? I am just trying to eat on a budget. It's only costing me about $20 a week to eat like this for my bulker, and curious to your input. Very much appreciated as always. Currently 6'1 at 240

1- 4 whole eggs 6 egg whites, 2/3 cup dry oatmeal
2- 2 scoups whey, 1 cup whole wheat pasta, 1 tbsp pb
3- 1 steak (size of hockey puck), 1 scoup whey, 1 potatoe
4- 2 scoups whey, 1 cup whole wheat pasta, 1 tbsp olive oil
5- 2 scoups whey, 1 bagel, 1 tbsp pb
6- 2 scoups whey, 2/3 cup dry oatmeal

Generally for gaining muscle whole food is preferred. I do use shakes thru the day but I alternate ie shake-whole food-shake. I would recommend 6-7 meals with 3 shakes. What you are doing woudl suffice in a pinch but overall I think it will slow progress.
P

[waderow]

Generally for gaining muscle whole food is preferred. I do use shakes thru the day but I alternate ie shake-whole food-shake. I would recommend 6-7 meals with 3 shakes. What you are doing woudl suffice in a pinch but overall I think it will slow progress.
P

side note.... a few guys have reported on various forums that supplement rich diets have PERMANENTLY damaged their digestive tracts

[waderow]

P, I see you stated test is the base of all cycles, and I suppose I agree, but a few very large men have raved about anabolic only cycles and go so far as to say they would never touch test....
what are your thoughts?

[Praetorian]

side note.... a few guys have reported on various forums that supplement rich diets have PERMANENTLY damaged their digestive tracts

Alternating shakes and whole food meals will not damage your digestive tract. A protein shake consisting of milk/water+whey+olive oil+banana+oatmeal, etc is considered a balanced meal and in no way will harm your digestive system. Anecdotal evidence is a dangerous thing..please take it with a grain of salt.
P

[waderow]

Alternating shakes and whole food meals will not damage your digestive tract. A protein shake consisting of milk/water+whey+olive oil+banana+oatmeal, etc is considered a balanced meal and in no way will harm your digestive system. Anecdotal evidence is a dangerous thing..please take it with a grain of salt.
P

of course, but I would never ignore it either

[Praetorian]

P, I see you stated test is the base of all cycles, and I suppose I agree, but a few very large men have raved about anabolic only cycles and go so far as to say they would never touch test....
what are your thoughts?

An anabolic only cycle will cause some sides that most are not willing to accept. A loss of libido...without test this can happen even using anavar alone....this leads to depression and a host of other issues. The other consideration is to get the same level of anabolism from a straight anabolic cycle will mean you have to increase the dosage dramatically to equate to a cycle including test. In this sport over time their are general rules that you eventually learn...one is test is a base of any cycle...if you are a serious BB....if you are a fitness model..fine do some var or primo and grab your bikini.
P

[Praetorian]

of course, but I would never ignore it either

If shakes caused digestive damage there would be a massive amount of people out their with damaged digestion....this just isnt the case. The same fear is spread about anabolics and how taking a bit of test will certainly destry your liver, give you cancer, and youlll keel over in a few months.
P

[waderow]

i think the guys who had problems lived off whey and mass gainers. just some food for thought though, that a guy should always actually eat food and use supplements as supplements.

[ironwill]

i think the guys who had problems lived off whey and mass gainers. just some food for thought though, that a guy should always actually eat food and use supplements as supplements.

Most definitely agree here, my new diet i recvd from an astute trainer has 1 shake per day, everything else is all food, whole good food, i feel and see a major difference already, big time, i was a 3-4 shake a day guy with 3 meals/ day prior....
Big differences ....
probiotics also very important imo......

[Praetorian]

i think the guys who had problems lived off whey and mass gainers. just some food for thought though, that a guy should always actually eat food and use supplements as supplements.

Common sense exactly.
P

[Praetorian]

Most definitely agree here, my new diet i recvd from an astute trainer has 1 shake per day, everything else is all food, whole good food, i feel and see a major difference already, big time, i was a 3-4 shake a day guy with 3 meals/ day prior....
Big differences ....
probiotics also very important imo......

Most if the issue actually is what the shake consists of. Many pros will tell you for the amount of food they eat shakes are the only way they survive. I prefer whole food meals to shakes but consuming 5-7k calories can be a chore to eat if whole foods not to mention preparation. I see no difference in muscular gains or while dieting if shakes are used properly.
P

[ironwill]

Most if the issue actually is what the shake consists of. Many pros will tell you for the amount of food they eat shakes are the only way they survive. I prefer whole food meals to shakes but consuming 5-7k calories can be a chore to eat if whole foods not to mention preparation. I see no difference in muscular gains or while dieting if shakes are used properly.
P

I agree, my point was i was overusing shakes imo, and not enough nutrients that can enhance thyroid, endocrine system, and hormones period, i was taking in to much due to convenience.....
I feel and look way better now with the changes made a few weeks ago....

Thanks for keeping this going Prae, great thread and still learning stuff...

[Mastagon]

I've never really been happy with using a shake to entirely replace a meal. Even when the shakes are loaded with quality whey, whole eggs, olive oil etc, I find they clear through me too quickly. At best, I found they can just fill the gaps between whole food meals...

[Praetorian]

I've never really been happy with using a shake to entirely replace a meal. Even when the shakes are loaded with quality whey, whole eggs, olive oil etc, I find they clear through me too quickly. At best, I found they can just fill the gaps between whole food meals...

Its psychological...the transit time of a shake as long as it has an adequate amount of fat is the same.
P

[Adonis13]

i find shakes a must have, its almost impossible for me to eat the amount of whole food to get what i need to grow, shakes with proper ingredients have defonatly helped keep me in the ranges i need to be.

hey P... im trying to put together my final bulk cycle before comp time, im thinking of 800cyp, 500 deca, and adding in abombs for first 6 weeks, this sound like a good gaining cycle for 6'2, 265?

[Mastagon]

Its psychological...the transit time of a shake as long as it has an adequate amount of fat is the same.
P

What I mean was, physically my stomach empties very quickly. Along with this, I just assumed that as the nutrients are suspended in liquid, they are more easily absorbed and require less activity by the digestive system to be processed out of the body. As in liquid matter is is passed easier than solid. Or is the difference in processing speed not really an issue, like its negligible, and relatively the same for both types once the nutrients get dumped into the blood stream?

[waderow]

a steak is in your belly longer then a shake.... without any doubt

[Praetorian]

i find shakes a must have, its almost impossible for me to eat the amount of whole food to get what i need to grow, shakes with proper ingredients have defonatly helped keep me in the ranges i need to be.

hey P... im trying to put together my final bulk cycle before comp time, im thinking of 800cyp, 500 deca, and adding in abombs for first 6 weeks, this sound like a good gaining cycle for 6'2, 265?

Cycle sounds good...i dont like orals especially a50 it kills appetite...but if you are set on using them then start week 5 for the synergistic effect.
P

[Praetorian]

a steak is in your belly longer then a shake.... without any doubt

Transit time can be measured and it has many times in a variety of studies showing that even whey isolate releases amino accid into the blood relatively the same as whole food if combined with adequate fat. The difference is negligible.
P

[Adonis13]

Cycle sounds good...i dont like orals especially a50 it kills appetite...but if you are set on using them then start week 5 for the synergistic effect.
P

im not a huge fan of orals either, but for strength increase ad possible size its one of the tops. thanks P

[A_N_T]

i have read all this thread-Praetorian my respect for you!
ill compete in 20 days...on Universe in Germany...
last time i used this kind for pluming of water:
1- 100mg spironolactone 5 litres of the distilled water 20 ml of kaly
2- 200 mg spironolactone 8 litres of the distilled water 30 ml of kaly
3- 400 mg spironolactone 5 litres of the distilled water 20 ml of kaly
4- 400 mg spironolactone + 12.5 mg triamteren 6mg gidrohlortiazide 1 litres of the distilled water 10 ml of kaly
5-400 mg spironolactone + 25 mg triamteren 12.5mg gidrohlortiazide 1 litres of the distilled water 10 ml of kaly
6-show day without water 25 mg triamteren 12.5mg gidrohlortiazide
ive lost 17 pound of Weight...
What will you advise me? this time i have a new scheme....14542

14543
this pics week before show and the show day...

[Praetorian]

i have read all this thread-Praetorian my respect for you!
ill compete in 20 days...on Universe in Germany...
last time i used this kind for pluming of water:
1- 100mg spironolactone 5 litres of the distilled water 20 ml of kaly
2- 200 mg spironolactone 8 litres of the distilled water 30 ml of kaly
3- 400 mg spironolactone 5 litres of the distilled water 20 ml of kaly
4- 400 mg spironolactone + 12.5 mg triamteren 6mg gidrohlortiazide 1 litres of the distilled water 10 ml of kaly
5-400 mg spironolactone + 25 mg triamteren 12.5mg gidrohlortiazide 1 litres of the distilled water 10 ml of kaly
6-show day without water 25 mg triamteren 12.5mg gidrohlortiazide
ive lost 17 pound of Weight...
What will you advise me? this time i have a new scheme....


this pics week before show and the show day...


Hi ANT....your condition is very good the day of the show however you are quite flat. 17 lbs of water is way too much to lose...thus you would have lost alot from your muscle which is the reason why you ended up flat.
Spironolactone is NOT a good choice of diuretic for a BB as I have said many times. It blocks adosterone and in doing that you will excrete sodium through the kidneys and hence water will follow. However once this happens because aldosterone is blocked (takes some time to normalize) you can no longer reabsorb sodium thus no pump, inability to carb up effectively, and the muscle flattens dramatically. Also a huge no-no is distilled water, Distilled water because it is basically mineral free will act somewhat like a magnet and pull minerals from your body. This will lead to further problems including cramping, severe elctrolyte imbalance, cardiac issues.

The good news....the solution is quite simple...prior to the show keep water intake moderate...ie 4-6 litres daily. Keep sodium moderate throughout the diet and do not drop sodium except the day before the show...cut out any excess sodium but what is naturally present is fine...ie eggs etc do not go zero sodium. On Friday before a Saturday show start Dyazide (hydrochlorothyazide + triamterene) 1/2 tab at 7pm, 1/2 tab at 12am, 1/2 tab at 5am, and 1/2 tab with your lunch at noon. Cut all water at 8pm Friday...make sure to reintroduce sodium on Saturday...ie some salt on your eggs for breakfast, salted peanut butter etc.
Pulling water prior to a contest is only a last minute fine tuning...you are not making drastic changes....you should never drop 17lbs...thats crazy.
A week out you should be shredded....from there is minimal changes thats it.
P

[dremen]

Hi ANT....your condition is very good the day of the show however you are quite flat. 17 lbs of water is way too much to lose...thus you would have lost alot from your muscle which is the reason why you ended up flat.
Spironolactone is NOT a good choice of diuretic for a BB as I have said many times. It blocks adosterone and in doing that you will excrete sodium through the kidneys and hence water will follow. However once this happens because aldosterone is blocked (takes some time to normalize) you can no longer reabsorb sodium thus no pump, inability to carb up effectively, and the muscle flattens dramatically. Also a huge no-no is distilled water, Distilled water because it is basically mineral free will act somewhat like a magnet and pull minerals from your body. This will lead to further problems including cramping, severe elctrolyte imbalance, cardiac issues.

The good news....the solution is quite simple...prior to the show keep water intake moderate...ie 4-6 litres daily. Keep sodium moderate throughout the diet and do not drop sodium except the day before the show...cut out any excess sodium but what is naturally present is fine...ie eggs etc do not go zero sodium. On Friday before a Saturday show start Dyazide (hydrochlorothyazide + triamterene) 1/2 tab at 7pm, 1/2 tab at 12am, 1/2 tab at 5am, and 1/2 tab with your lunch at noon. Cut all water at 8pm Friday...make sure to reintroduce sodium on Saturday...ie some salt on your eggs for breakfast, salted peanut butter etc.
Pulling water prior to a contest is only a last minute fine tuning...you are not making drastic changes....you should never drop 17lbs...thats crazy.
A week out you should be shredded....from there is minimal changes thats it.
P


Wow bro you are full of good info, glad your around:hu

[A_N_T]

thank you for your advise!
spironolactone is very popular among russian BB...
and iam afraid of being not dry enough...
to tell the truth i dont add salt to my meals at all...but there is a sodium in protein shakes that i drink (about 600 mg) and i think in chicken breast there is some sodium too...and in vegetables...
so its only 1 tab of Dyazide a day? its 25 mg triamteren 12.5mg hydrohlortiazide?
i know that 17 pounds its to much...and i look flat...ive ate 600 grams(rice) of carbs the day before show and about 200 (rice and fast carbs like honey) in a show day..
what would you recommend in carb loading?
how will last week look like in diet?

[Praetorian]

thank you for your advise!
spironolactone is very popular among russian BB...
and iam afraid of being not dry enough...
to tell the truth i dont add salt to my meals at all...but there is a sodium in protein shakes that i drink (about 600 mg) and i think in chicken breast there is some sodium too...and in vegetables...
so its only 1 tab of Dyazide a day? its 25 mg triamteren 12.5mg hydrohlortiazide?
i know that 17 pounds its to much...and i look flat...ive ate 600 grams(rice) of carbs the day before show and about 200 (rice and fast carbs like honey) in a show day..
what would you recommend in carb loading?
how will last week look like in diet?



Spironolactone may be popular that doesnt make it a good choice...smoking is quite popular too...it still kills thousands of people per year. You need to have sodium in your diet...without it you cannot carb up effectively...you said you took in 600g carbs yet you were still flat....why....lack of sodium plus distilled water...big no no!! Normally Dyazide contains 50mg Triamterene and 25mg Hydrochlorothyazide...two tabs is all you need taken 1/2 at a time. If you restrict sodium you will retain water...low sodium equals high aldosterone levels...not good. Use condiments with sodium ie hot sauce, mustard, etc Carbing up should start thursday. If you want specific details on the last week prep I do provide consulting services.
P

[A_N_T]

thank you for advice!
how can i get this consultation? :)
you think sodium that i take is not enough?
so i should use condiments with sodium in show day only or all week exept day before show?
what do you think about useing insulin in carb loading?
and about water delay by GH?

[Praetorian]

thank you for advice!
how can i get this consultation? :)
you think sodium that i take is not enough?
so i should use condiments with sodium in show day only or all week exept day before show?
what do you think about useing insulin in carb loading?
and about water delay by GH?

pm ME for information on consultations.

You need to be having moderate amounts of sodium every day...especially while dieting...the only day you restrict sodium is Friday before a saturday show.
Never use insulin for carb loading...you are very carb sensitive already because of the lowered carbs while dieting...there is no need for insulin...it will also cause water retention
You will not retain water on GH if you are using 4-6 iu or less
P

[A_N_T]

thanks!
for now i use GH 25iu ED...its a blue tops...
what do you thunk about increasing insulinresistation while low carb dieting and by using GH? and about useinf metfomin to slow down this effect?
you post recommendation to use clenbuterol for 16 weeks and what do you think about downregulation of b-2 adreanorecepters?

[ubcpower]

thanks!
for now i use GH 25iu ED...its a blue tops...
what do you thunk about increasing insulinresistation while low carb dieting and by using GH? and about useinf metfomin to slow down this effect?
you post recommendation to use clenbuterol for 16 weeks and what do you think about downregulation of b-2 adreanorecepters?

woah???????????

[Vitamin S]

how does this (Humalog) Slin routine look?


i plan on starting at 5iu pwo ( (i won't ever use it pre-workout or mornings just only pwo and only 3-4 times a week for a month and take a month or so off before using it again)

protocal :
after gym - go home and pin 5iu sub-q (unless IM is perferred or site specific such as biceps etc)

immediatly after i will have a cocktail ready consisting of 50 grams of waxy maize with 1 serving of size-on creatine which works out to be 80grams of carbs not sure if this ratio is to high compared to the standard 10g carbs per 1iu. if so i can lower the waxy maize to 20g to balance it out. but i would rather error on the size of caution and adjust downwards as needed after i assess my tolerance.

15 mins after this i will have 50g of whey isolate.

75mins later have a meal of carbs and protein (using white rice and chicken breast- no fats in this meal)

2 hours later have another smaller portion of white rice and chicken breast again no fats as i prolly still are in the humalog active window period.

1 hour later (whey protein / with natty peanut butter shake)

30 mins later bed time.

i will have coke on hand as well as orange juice if i go hypo. and will be at home not leaving the house.

is dextrose a must or is waxy maize okay for the first pwo shake?

thanks P

[dremen]

how does this (Humalog) Slin routine look?


i plan on starting at 5iu pwo ( (i won't ever use it pre-workout or mornings just only pwo and only 3-4 times a week for a month and take a month or so off before using it again)

protocal :
after gym - go home and pin 5iu sub-q (unless IM is perferred or site specific such as biceps etc)
thanks P


Ummm i could be wrong, but every guy i know that runs slin inject right after workout, like in the gym bathroom. From what i've always thought you need to inject slin within 30 minutes of workout for it to really work good?

Correct me if im wrong please.

[Praetorian]

thanks!
for now i use GH 25iu ED...its a blue tops...
what do you thunk about increasing insulinresistation while low carb dieting and by using GH? and about useinf metfomin to slow down this effect?
you post recommendation to use clenbuterol for 16 weeks and what do you think about downregulation of b-2 adreanorecepters?

25i's daily...is that correct? or 2.5ius daily? GH can increase insulin resistance normally this is associated with high dosages and extended cycles. Metformin may help in the short term ie when eating but taking IGF-1 will reverse the situation . Thus after a long GH cycle it is probably a good idea to run a cycle of IGF-1 to normalize glucose tolerance. B2 receptors will not down grade significantly in 16 weeks as long as you increase the dosage a small amount every two weeks up to a maximum of 120-150mcg daily is sufficient.
P

[Praetorian]

Ummm i could be wrong, but every guy i know that runs slin inject right after workout, like in the gym bathroom. From what i've always thought you need to inject slin within 30 minutes of workout for it to really work good?

Correct me if im wrong please.

No insulin can be used at a variety of times throughout the day(depending on the type used also). However if it is not required....most do not need it...it will simply make you fat.
P

[Vitamin S]

hey P,

i always wondered if the carb content of say rice and oats changed from dry to cooked? i have read it stays the same, and read that it goes to half ex. 1/2 cup of dry brown rice is 34 carbs and cooked its 17 does this make sense, this could be throwing my carbs off lol if it is the case.

i have always gone by the package and used the carb content when dry and assumed it stayed the same when cooked?

thx

[Praetorian]

how does this (Humalog) Slin routine look?


i plan on starting at 5iu pwo ( (i won't ever use it pre-workout or mornings just only pwo and only 3-4 times a week for a month and take a month or so off before using it again)

protocal :
after gym - go home and pin 5iu sub-q (unless IM is perferred or site specific such as biceps etc)

immediatly after i will have a cocktail ready consisting of 50 grams of waxy maize with 1 serving of size-on creatine which works out to be 80grams of carbs not sure if this ratio is to high compared to the standard 10g carbs per 1iu. if so i can lower the waxy maize to 20g to balance it out. but i would rather error on the size of caution and adjust downwards as needed after i assess my tolerance.

15 mins after this i will have 50g of whey isolate.

75mins later have a meal of carbs and protein (using white rice and chicken breast- no fats in this meal)

2 hours later have another smaller portion of white rice and chicken breast again no fats as i prolly still are in the humalog active window period.

1 hour later (whey protein / with natty peanut butter shake)

30 mins later bed time.

i will have coke on hand as well as orange juice if i go hypo. and will be at home not leaving the house.

is dextrose a must or is waxy maize okay for the first pwo shake?

thanks P

That looks fine...you wont go hypo on 5ius with that much food. I would suggest adding the protein to the waxy maize in your first shake.
P

[Praetorian]

hey P,

i always wondered if the carb content of say rice and oats changed from dry to cooked? i have read it stays the same, and read that it goes to half ex. 1/2 cup of dry brown rice is 34 carbs and cooked its 17 does this make sense, this could be throwing my carbs off lol if it is the case.

i have always gone by the package and used the carb content when dry and assumed it stayed the same when cooked?

thx

The carb content shouldnt change...not significantly anyway.
P

[A_N_T]

25i's daily...is that correct? or 2.5ius daily? GH can increase insulin resistance normally this is associated with high dosages and extended cycles. Metformin may help in the short term ie when eating but taking IGF-1 will reverse the situation . Thus after a long GH cycle it is probably a good idea to run a cycle of IGF-1 to normalize glucose tolerance. B2 receptors will not down grade significantly in 16 weeks as long as you increase the dosage a small amount every two weeks up to a maximum of 120-150mcg daily is sufficient.
P

yes 25 iu daily. my protocol is:5 iu in the morning ED for 5 weeks, then 1 week 15 iu ED 10 iu in the morning 5 iu before bedtime, and now already for 5 days 25 iu ED 10iu in the morning 10 iu in late afternoon (3pm) and 5 iu before bed...thats why i asked about water rotatin by GH...
next week iam going to use IGF-1 lr3 100 mcg ED...what is the best way to use it how do you think?
clen i usually take 160 ED....for 2 weeks then 2 weeks ECA..

[Praetorian]

yes 25 iu daily. my protocol is:5 iu in the morning ED for 5 weeks, then 1 week 15 iu ED 10 iu in the morning 5 iu before bedtime, and now already for 5 days 25 iu ED 10iu in the morning 10 iu in late afternoon (3pm) and 5 iu before bed...thats why i asked about water rotatin by GH...
next week iam going to use IGF-1 lr3 100 mcg ED...what is the best way to use it how do you think?
clen i usually take 160 ED....for 2 weeks then 2 weeks ECA..

25iu daily is complete overkill ...while dieting there is no need to go over 6iu daily. On 25iu yes you would probably have some serious water retention...I would really suggest lowering the dosage.
IGF-1 will help with reversing insulin resistance if that even is an issue for you however it should be used once the diet is finished not during. There is no advantage to using IGF-1 while dieting as it does not aid in fat loss...the only thing will do is act as a decent glucose disposal agent but since you are dieting and your carb intake is low anyway there is no need for a GDA. Save the IGF for after the contest(20-40mcg daily is enough-post workout). Clen at 160 mcg per day is fine...however alternating clen and ECA is not a good idea as they both stimulate B2 cells so in essence you are not allowing B2 cells to upregulate and you are losing valuable time for fat loss because ECA is not as effective as clen...run the clen right through...scrap the ECA.

P

[natenator]

yes 25 iu daily. my protocol is:5 iu in the morning ED for 5 weeks, then 1 week 15 iu ED 10 iu in the morning 5 iu before bedtime, and now already for 5 days 25 iu ED 10iu in the morning 10 iu in late afternoon (3pm) and 5 iu before bed...thats why i asked about water rotatin by GH...
next week iam going to use IGF-1 lr3 100 mcg ED...what is the best way to use it how do you think?
clen i usually take 160 ED....for 2 weeks then 2 weeks ECA..
not to be a dick but it sounds like you are trying to make up for a shitty diet

[Vitamin S]

P,

i read somewhere that anti-estrogens and perhaps even AI when taken during cycle to reduce water retention and or gyno also decrease IGF-1 levels. is this true or is it the other way around. either way can you elaborate as to why?

thx

[A_N_T]

my diet is: 2200 ccals. 400 protein 100 carbs(from morning oats-the real oats that needs to cook and salad) and about 20 fat. i dont think that it is shitty diet :)
when i started use 15 iu GH and add 30 iu insulin (for 5 days) i gained 8.5 pounds...and water rotation becomes pretty high...then i dropped insulin and add GH and T3 (12.5 mg) add more cardio, reduce callories a little bit.... and the weight is still 237....and i dont lnow why?? water rotation is not so high as it was weeek ago...
and what do you think about oppression of thyroid gland by GH?

[ubcpower]

A N T, you have a lot of specific , time consuming q's , why dont you hire Praetorian for his services?

[natenator]

A N T, you have a lot of specific , time consuming q's , why dont you hire Praetorian for his services?
As opposed to Vitamin S and his 15000 posts in this thread???

[A_N_T]

:)
yes they are specific! but i think my questions and answers for them are much more interesting for everybody and for Praetorian (i think too) then the questions like i have testosteron propionate what should i do?.....

[Praetorian]

P,

i read somewhere that anti-estrogens and perhaps even AI when taken during cycle to reduce water retention and or gyno also decrease IGF-1 levels. is this true or is it the other way around. either way can you elaborate as to why?

thx

Taking AI's or even SERM's ie tamoxifen has been show to decrease the effectiveness of aas during a cycle yes. Whether it is because of lowered IGF-1 levels or other reasons is still debatable...the consensus is to use these compounds only if necessary during an offseason cycle.
P

[Praetorian]

my diet is: 2200 ccals. 400 protein 100 carbs(from morning oats-the real oats that needs to cook and salad) and about 20 fat. i dont think that it is shitty diet :)
when i started use 15 iu GH and add 30 iu insulin (for 5 days) i gained 8.5 pounds...and water rotation becomes pretty high...then i dropped insulin and add GH and T3 (12.5 mg) add more cardio, reduce callories a little bit.... and the weight is still 237....and i dont lnow why?? water rotation is not so high as it was weeek ago...
and what do you think about oppression of thyroid gland by GH?

A decent precontest diet is not static..it changes as the body drops fat and adapts to calories, cardio etc. 20g fat is really low...I would say you may be lacking essential fats. Again 6iu's per day while dieting is plenty...you are not building muscle you are maintaining...and dropping as much fat as possible. GH does not suppress thyroid...I posted this before...GH actually increases the conversion of inactive thyroid T4 to active thyroid T3. If you took a blood test and looked at your TSH you would find it suppressed...this means you have more active thyroid than normal...not less.
P

[A_N_T]

i added fat and reduce carbs...and cardio begin to work! for this 4 days ive lost 1 pound :) and i become more lean...and my strenght increased! maybe GH start working....
ive read your post about thyroid in another thread....i understand-thank you for answering!

[Vitamin S]

P,

how come some of these new amateurs yet to turn pro such as trew brewyer and others look bloated and puffy still when in contest shape like 1 week out and even i noticed evan centaponi when he won his ifbb pro new york show?

is it because they are growing too fast and don't have enough mature aged dense muscle yet? or is it the inuslin abuse and packing on mad weight off season and having troubles coming in paper thin?

i just noticed that when looking at ronny rockwell or others they have that aged dense muscle grainy look like dorian did and so does dexter jackson?

[natenator]

P,

how come some of these new amateurs yet to turn pro such as trew brewyer and others look bloated and puffy still when in contest shape like 1 week out and even i noticed evan centaponi when he won his ifbb pro new york show?

is it because they are growing too fast and don't have enough mature aged dense muscle yet? or is it the inuslin abuse and packing on mad weight off season and having troubles coming in paper thin?

i just noticed that when looking at ronny rockwell or others they have that aged dense muscle grainy look like dorian did and so does dexter jackson?

I'm curious where you see bloated in Evan?

[Vitamin S]

i guess not soo much bloat like water retnetino just the muscles seem not grainy enough

[Praetorian]

i guess not soo much bloat like water retnetino just the muscles seem not grainy enough

It comes with muscle maturity...youll see it on most of the guys who have been training for a longer time. Also it depends on the last week prep and how water is manipulated. Dorian was the king of grainy...you had to see him to truly understand...pictures or videos never did him justice.
P

[A_N_T]

Hi Praetorian! ive tried dyazine like you told...and i like it! ive lost 6.5 pounds and i was not flat...but i still had lots of water under my skin...i did not felt bad! it was easy to pose! :)
14768

[Praetorian]

Hi Praetorian! ive tried dyazine like you told...and i like it! ive lost 6.5 pounds and i was not flat...but i still had lots of water under my skin...i did not felt bad! it was easy to pose! :)


Just taking dyazide is not the answer. To look dry and to be full requires you do everything correctly. Namely sodium and water manipulation, amount of carb up, amount of gh taken, correct diet etc. If everything is done as it should be you would not be holding water under the skin at all...this is where coaching comes into play. It appears from the pic that you are still retaining 4-6lbs of water sub q...retaining that much water dictates that something is drastically wrong with your diet, carb up process, cycle, etc...something needs to change....a week out from the show you should be quite dry before taking a diuretic.
P

[nii]

question about benching properly. watched the vids and have implemented into my routine for several weeks now. when using dbs however, as you bring the db down, your wrists (and db) naturally want to go parallel with ur body. what is the proper way to keep your wrists, let them naturally go parallel with ur body on the way down, then as you press let them go perpendicular, or try and keep them perpendicular all the way down. Or a mix between the two?

[Praetorian]

question about benching properly. watched the vids and have implemented into my routine for several weeks now. when using dbs however, as you bring the db down, your wrists (and db) naturally want to go parallel with ur body. what is the proper way to keep your wrists, let them naturally go parallel with ur body on the way down, then as you press let them go perpendicular, or try and keep them perpendicular all the way down. Or a mix between the two?

When using dumbbells I try to emulate the same style I would use with a barbell...thus the wrists would remain the same way not turned into the body.
P

[Mastagon]

what is the negative side of allowing them to turn in a little

[A_N_T]

Praetorian what do ypu think about useing oxymetolone one day before show and at the show day to muscle pump?
and what about an infra-red sauna the day before show-to reduce water under skin?

[Praetorian]

what is the negative side of allowing them to turn in a little

I dont see it being a negative side...I just prefer to be consistent in my lifts...this enables more intense focus thus higher intensity because exercise form after awhile becomes instinctive.
P

[Praetorian]

Praetorian what do ypu think about useing oxymetolone one day before show and at the show day to muscle pump?
and what about an infra-red sauna the day before show-to reduce water under skin?

No anadrol the day before....unnecessary and if your cycle is good ie tren, winny, halo etc....it is redundant. No infra red sauna or any kind of sauna for that matter that is asking for trouble.
P

[A_N_T]

my cycle is 100 mg propionate ED 100 mg winny ED proviron (mesterolone) 50 mg ED....
what kind trouble?
tren acetat 75 mg ED is enouth?

[Praetorian]

my cycle is 100 mg propionate ED 100 mg winny ED proviron (mesterolone) 50 mg ED....
what kind trouble?
tren acetat 75 mg ED is enouth?

A sauna will pull water everywhere including muscle....it also pulls electrolytes which will leave you flat...thats not what a BB wants. 75 tren ED is fine.
P

[Vitamin S]

P,

in regards to PCT or being off a cycle, should ones diet (or macro-content change) and training routine.

i still eat the same as i would if on cycle, but my training is not as long, i still use the same poundages to retain as much strength and muscle belly size, but i have cut the sets down and reps as well, and even some exercises, just stick to the one's that will keep overall size the most (like only 2-3 exercises per body part).

would it be wise to use insulin post workout when off cycle?

any other supplements you can recommend other than creatine and natural test boosters to aid in training?

thanks P

[gustavo77]

A sauna will pull water everywhere including muscle....it also pulls electrolytes which will leave you flat...thats not what a BB wants. 75 tren ED is fine.
P

Just to add on to this, what are your thoughts on taking a dry saunas post workout in the off season. I usually take a sauna after i train and drink my PWO drink while kicking it in there. Find it very relaxing. Do you think this will hinder recovery or effect gains since i am dehydrating my muscles and depleting them of electrolytes for a short period of time??

[Vitamin S]

Hey P,

i read chris aceto on his website saying

For many bodybuilders, building mass requires about 17-20 calories per pound of body weight, which for the 200 pounder comes out to 3400-4000 calories a day.

is he talking about overall bodyweight, or just lean body tissue?

thx

[Praetorian]

Just to add on to this, what are your thoughts on taking a dry saunas post workout in the off season. I usually take a sauna after i train and drink my PWO drink while kicking it in there. Find it very relaxing. Do you think this will hinder recovery or effect gains since i am dehydrating my muscles and depleting them of electrolytes for a short period of time??

Offseason they can be quite beneficial...i doubt it would hinder recovery....may help in fact...as long as you get the pwo nutrition as well.
P

[Praetorian]

Hey P,

i read chris aceto on his website saying

For many bodybuilders, building mass requires about 17-20 calories per pound of body weight, which for the 200 pounder comes out to 3400-4000 calories a day.

is he talking about overall bodyweight, or just lean body tissue?

thx

I cant say for sure as i havent read the article but normally people quote that as body weight not lean mass...it really depends on the person...ive seen it quoted both ways....the main idea is you do have to eat alot of food.
P

[Praetorian]

P,

in regards to PCT or being off a cycle, should ones diet (or macro-content change) and training routine.

i still eat the same as i would if on cycle, but my training is not as long, i still use the same poundages to retain as much strength and muscle belly size, but i have cut the sets down and reps as well, and even some exercises, just stick to the one's that will keep overall size the most (like only 2-3 exercises per body part).

would it be wise to use insulin post workout when off cycle?

any other supplements you can recommend other than creatine and natural test boosters to aid in training?

thanks P

watch your calorie intake...when off you dont burn as much...never use insulin off cycle youll just get fat...creatine, there are no good test boosters out there now since 6oxo is off the market...gh if u can afford it 2iu daily helps with hpta recovery and libido
P

[musclehead123]

Hi Praetorian,

For bulking what rep tempo would you suggest for it to be optimal. Also how much rest do you recommend would be optimal between sets and exercises.

Thanks

P.S. much respect to you bro for all this knowledge you are sharing with us.

[Praetorian]

Hi Praetorian,

For bulking what rep tempo would you suggest for it to be optimal. Also how much rest do you recommend would be optimal between sets and exercises.

Thanks

P.S. much respect to you bro for all this knowledge you are sharing with us.

Rep tempo should be the amount of time it takes to lower the weight under control and explode up to completion...if you are doing a set of 10 reps then treat it as ten sets of one.Enough rest between sets to get your heart rate back to normal...never by the clock.
P

[gustavo77]

Offseason they can be quite beneficial...i doubt it would hinder recovery....may help in fact...as long as you get the pwo nutrition as well.
P

Thanks P. I always wondered...I do enjoy taking them, just find it kills my pumps after a workout but i do take in carbs, electrolytes and glutamine while i am in the sauna so...

[gustavo77]

Rep tempo should be the amount of time it takes to lower the weight under control and explode up to completion...if you are doing a set of 10 reps then treat it as ten sets of one.Enough rest between sets to get your heart rate back to normal...never by the clock.
P

This is how i have been training, not sloppy but controlled on the negative and explosive to the top. I noticed Cutler trains like this so i thought i would give it a try, works very, very well.

[Benny62]

i'e been off the juice for almost 3 months and my back is breaking out with acne still! i've never had this problem before. i went to the doc and he has me on 2 topical antibiotics. it is discouraging after the great gains i got to come off and have this terrible acne on my chest and back? any suggesionsd?

[Vitamin S]

did you run a proper pct, depending on the ester you ran it could be possible that you have high levels of androgens circulating which would be testosterone hence the acne you are getting from high sebum levels from the testosterone.

in short if im correct lol your test / estrogen ratios are wacked out, did u get a bllood report done, should give you the reason why.

[Praetorian]

i'e been off the juice for almost 3 months and my back is breaking out with acne still! i've never had this problem before. i went to the doc and he has me on 2 topical antibiotics. it is discouraging after the great gains i got to come off and have this terrible acne on my chest and back? any suggesionsd?

Many people get worse acne while off...namely because test levels have not stabalized like when on. Get the generic version of Augmentin an oral antibiotic...it will clear things up quickly...500mg twice daily to start.
Regular showers and 6-8g pantothenic (B5) per day..split the dose twice daily.
P

[trainharder]

What's your view on frontloading long esters such as Test-E and EQ?

(i.e. Doing 1g of Test-E for the first 2 weeks and 1.2g of EQ for the first 2 weeks, then lowering to 500mg and 600mg/wk)

[Praetorian]

What's your view on frontloading long esters such as Test-E and EQ?

(i.e. Doing 1g of Test-E for the first 2 weeks and 1.2g of EQ for the first 2 weeks, then lowering to 500mg and 600mg/wk)

More efficient to use a short ester concurrently the first few weeks.
P

[Rhinobolt10]

Hey man,

I know this is retarded... but is there a protocol for missing a GH shot?

Just started and yeah... already missed a shot... totally stupid.

Just wondering what I should do if it ever comes up again... and I'll be doing my very best to make sure that doesn't happen.

[Praetorian]

Hey man,

I know this is retarded... but is there a protocol for missing a GH shot?

Just started and yeah... already missed a shot... totally stupid.

Just wondering what I should do if it ever comes up again... and I'll be doing my very best to make sure that doesn't happen.


Are you doing multi shots per day...if so take it when you remember as long as its a few hours before your next one...if you are taking one per day...take it when u remember that day....otherwise if its the next day dont worry about...just continue on.
P

[beretta96]

I have a problem building my back. I hurt it badly when I was a kid racing dirt bikes and it doesn't take much to aggravate it. When I work out my back I use machines exclusively. I don't dare use a squat rack, or do deadlifts and such for fear of putting it out again. It usually takes 2-3 weeks to get back to normal.

Is this something I have to live with or are there any alternatives that you may know about?

thanks.

P.S. thanks for all the info here just reading everyone's questions I'm learning quite a bit.

[Praetorian]

I have a problem building my back. I hurt it badly when I was a kid racing dirt bikes and it doesn't take much to aggravate it. When I work out my back I use machines exclusively. I don't dare use a squat rack, or do deadlifts and such for fear of putting it out again. It usually takes 2-3 weeks to get back to normal.

Is this something I have to live with or are there any alternatives that you may know about?

thanks.

P.S. thanks for all the info here just reading everyone's questions I'm learning quite a bit.


About 15 years ago i was squatting with 660 on the bar and i had the old pwer collars ....spin close and wing nuts....well they let go for some reason and the weight slid about 6-8 inches to the left on one side which torqued the bar down on that side and into a slight twist...I let it go but the damage was done to my spine. I went thru physio etc and was back squatting in 6 weeks or so. I decided to prevent further injury i would only do smith squats and no deadlifts. I had recurring back pain and lock ups consistently for a year. I then decided to go back to regular squats and to start deadlifting again...Ive never had a back problem since. I would always suggest caution and start with very light weights first...machines tend to be very specific and allow weak areas to develop whereas free weights prevent this by forcing core stabalization. Give the free weights a chance...but take your time, use perfect technique, and allow your body to adapt first...dont rush into heavy weights.
P

[#8]

I really like to do heavy dumbbell rows as my first exercise on back day. I usually then move to pulldowns after that (or other cable work).

I have not been doing regular dead lifts due to knee problems but I am feeling more confident after some physio.

Can I do heavy deadlifts and heavy dumbbell rows on the same day or is that too much?

[Praetorian]

I really like to do heavy dumbbell rows as my first exercise on back day. I usually then move to pulldowns after that (or other cable work).

I have not been doing regular dead lifts due to knee problems but I am feeling more confident after some physio.

Can I do heavy deadlifts and heavy dumbbell rows on the same day or is that too much?

I dont see any issue with that.
P

[beretta96]

About 15 years ago i was squatting with 660 on the bar and i had the old pwer collars ....spin close and wing nuts....well they let go for some reason and the weight slid about 6-8 inches to the left on one side which torqued the bar down on that side and into a slight twist...I let it go but the damage was done to my spine. I went thru physio etc and was back squatting in 6 weeks or so. I decided to prevent further injury i would only do smith squats and no deadlifts. I had recurring back pain and lock ups consistently for a year. I then decided to go back to regular squats and to start deadlifting again...Ive never had a back problem since. I would always suggest caution and start with very light weights first...machines tend to be very specific and allow weak areas to develop whereas free weights prevent this by forcing core stabalization. Give the free weights a chance...but take your time, use perfect technique, and allow your body to adapt first...dont rush into heavy weights.
P


Should I use a belt for squats and deads even for the light weights or in my case starting fresh?

[Praetorian]

Should I use a belt for squats and deads even for the light weights or in my case starting fresh?

Initially you want to build up the strength of the back...on the really light stuff I would say no...you really have to go by feel. Once you go over 135lbs I would say use a small belt.
P

[kloan]

Initially you want to build up the strength of the back...on the really light stuff I would say no...you really have to go by feel. Once you go over 135lbs I would say use a small belt.
P

Really that low? I'm passed that weight but I don't use a belt.. could that be why my lower back got tweaked last time I did deads?

What do you recommend for a belt (for a 5'6" 180lb guy)?

[natenator]

Really that low? I'm passed that weight but I don't use a belt.. could that be why my lower back got tweaked last time I did deads?

What do you recommend for a belt (for a 5'6" 180lb guy)?
did you read that this guy has serious back problems and that;s why P is likely recommending a small belt to help him out as he works up in weight?

[kloan]

did you read that this guy has serious back problems and that;s why P is likely recommending a small belt to help him out as he works up in weight?

nope... missed it entirely. only read this page to see his last post... :o

[Praetorian]

Really that low? I'm passed that weight but I don't use a belt.. could that be why my lower back got tweaked last time I did deads?

What do you recommend for a belt (for a 5'6" 180lb guy)?

Please read berettas initial post...a good belt is one that is the same width all the way around...avoid anything that has a really wide part in the back...thats just ignorance on the part of the belt manufacturer.
P

[Praetorian]

Hey Prae,

if I understood correctly you load up the weight on your first working set and go to failure (around 5 reps), then drop the weight for your next working set and go to failure (around 7-8 reps), then drop the weight next working set again to failure (9-10 reps)

do you follow this method for all your exercises.... like for training chest if you did 4 different exercises with 3-4 sets per exercise would they all be done with the first set being the heaviest then dropping weight each set after with all sets going to failure?

also how much weight do you normally take off after each set? (10-20 lbs?)

The most important set...or should I say the set that imparts the most gains is the heaviest and the first. You have the most energy, focus, drive and fuel for this set...thus you want to make it count. What is the point of pyramiding up in weight while at the same time tiring yourself out...once you reach the heaviest set your zonked. Warm up sets are just that...warmups....stimulate blood flow, prepare the body for weight, prepare the mind for weight...do not exhaust yourself but warm up enough to avoid injuries.

Here is my typical bench routine as an example...

warm up...cable crossovers light weight 2 sets 20
warm up straight bar lat pulldowns....2 sets 15
warm up triceps pushdowns light weight 2 sets 15
warm up bench press 135lbs for 12
warm up bench press 225lbs for 10
warm up bench press 315lbs for 8
warm up bench press 405lbs for 6
warm up bench press 455lbs for 3
1st set bench press 495lbs for 6-10 (basically as many as possible to failure)
2nd set bench press 445lbs for as many as possible
3rd set bench press 405lbs for as many as possible

If i am feeling stronger that day...ill do one more warm up after 455 with 495 for a single then go for 545lbs for my first set and drop from there.

P

[Mastagon]

The most important set...or should I say the set that imparts the most gains is the heaviest and the first. You have the most energy, focus, drive and fuel for this set...thus you want to make it count. What is the point of pyramiding up in weight while at the same time tiring yourself out...once you reach the heaviest set your zonked. Warm up sets are just that...warmups....stimulate blood flow, prepare the body for weight, prepare the mind for weight...do not exhaust yourself but warm up enough to avoid injuries.

Here is my typical bench routine as an example...

warm up...cable crossovers light weight 2 sets 20
warm up straight bar lat pulldowns....2 sets 15
warm up triceps pushdowns light weight 2 sets 15
warm up bench press 135lbs for 12
warm up bench press 225lbs for 10
warm up bench press 315lbs for 8
warm up bench press 405lbs for 6
warm up bench press 455lbs for 3
1st set bench press 495lbs for 6-10 (basically as many as possible to failure)
2nd set bench press 445lbs for as many as possible
3rd set bench press 405lbs for as many as possible

If i am feeling stronger that day...ill do one more warm up after 455 with 495 for a single then go for 545lbs for my first set and drop from there.

P

Is this the entire routine, or just the warm-up and working sets for one exercise

[MMASTAR]

hey P, do you think for a first cycle it would be worth it to run test E at 300-400mg a week for 16 weeks as i would prefer slow steady gains to avoid to much attention, as well what would be a proper pct for this? the usual clomid 100 50 50 50? do you think a first cycle should have HCG in it? if so would you run it throughtout or just before pct? What would be best to have on hand in case of sides? Thanks!

[Praetorian]

Is this the entire routine, or just the warm-up and working sets for one exercise

Just the first exercise...I also include hammer inclines, dumbell incline flyes, and cables at the end.
P

[Praetorian]

hey P, do you think for a first cycle it would be worth it to run test E at 300-400mg a week for 16 weeks as i would prefer slow steady gains to avoid to much attention, as well what would be a proper pct for this? the usual clomid 100 50 50 50? do you think a first cycle should have HCG in it? if so would you run it throughtout or just before pct? What would be best to have on hand in case of sides? Thanks!


I would suggest 400-500mg weekly of test E for your first cycle. Gains will be steady but you will not blow up as long as your diet is tight...dont over eat carbs and you wont see much in the way of water retention etc. I would recommend keeping your first cycle to 12 weeks and small amounts of hcg concurrently would assist in speeding up PCT ie 500iu twice weekly. One week after your last shot of test continue with 500iu twice per week for two weeks, then start clomid at 50mg twice daily for two weeks. You should be fine after that. It would be a good idea to stay off for at least another 6-8 weeks.
You may want to run 12.5 mg aromasin with your PCT as well. Its a good idea to have it on hand during your cycle in case you run into any gyno issues...i doubt you would at that test dose but it is individualistic.
P

[MMASTAR]

Thanks P! do you start the hcg same week as the test or do you wait till the test kicks at week 3-4?? And your saying to leave a week in between last test shot and doing HCG at the end? then pct starts 3 weeks after last test shot correct? Do you belive in injecting hcg sub q or IM? Thanks for the help, i wouldnt ask if i didnt value your opinion.

so: week1-12 test e 400mg split in 2
week 1-12 hcg 1000IU split in 2
week 13 nothing
week 14-15 hcg 1000IU split in 2
week 16-17 clomid 100mg ED split in 2 and 12.5mg aromasin

Sound good?

[Praetorian]

Thanks P! do you start the hcg same week as the test or do you wait till the test kicks at week 3-4?? YOU CAN WAIT 2-3 WEEKS THATS FINE

And your saying to leave a week in between last test shot and doing HCG at the end? AFTER YOUR LAST TEST SHOT WAIT ONE WEEK THEN START HCG

then pct starts 3 weeks after last test shot correct? HCG LASTS TWO WEEKS THEN CLOMID STARTS AND LASTS TWO WEEKS

Do you belive in injecting hcg sub q or IM?
IM OR SUBQ EITHER WILL WORK FINE

Thanks for the help, i wouldnt ask if i didnt value your opinion.

so: week1-12 test e 400mg split in 2
week 1-12 hcg 1000IU split in 2
week 13 nothing
week 14-15 hcg 1000IU split in 2
week 16-17 clomid 100mg ED split in 2 and 12.5mg aromasin

Sound good?



P

[Vitamin S]

Hey P,

how does the below sound for a post workout cocktail (if anything listed is useless please mention)

2 scoops whey isolate (50grams)
40-80g of waxy maize
5-10g creatine monohyrdate micronized form
5g L-glutamine
1 pack of allmax aminocore 8.1g of BCAAs
1gram of Vitamin C powder

i try to use this when im on cycle or off cycle year round.

thanks again P

[Praetorian]

Hey P,

how does the below sound for a post workout cocktail (if anything listed is useless please mention)

2 scoops whey isolate (50grams) GOOD
40-80g of waxy maize GOOD
5-10g creatine monohyrdate micronized form GOOD
5g L-glutamine USELESS
1 pack of allmax aminocore 8.1g of BCAAs USELESS
1gram of Vitamin C powder PREFER TO TAKE IN THE MORNING BUT DOESNT HURT

i try to use this when im on cycle or off cycle year round.

thanks again P

P

[#8]

if one has had issues with anxiety in the past, would clen be way too much to handle? or maybe a blend like helios or lipo ex or something? ephedrine makes me look and feel like shit, i dont react well to it and im looking for a boost in terms of fat burning. i know how to eat and train, i just want some help.