Q&A with Praetorian - National Level Competitor

[Praetorian]

I just swiched back to a 5 day as of monday
1 back
2 chest
3 off
4 legs
5 shoulders
6 arms
7 off

I do a week heavy 6- 8 reps then medium 8-12 then a light 12-15rep

every week has a different volume exercise set scheme

how does that sound to you

i think i was burnt from working 16 hour days and bad eating poorly

I would suggest 5-6, 6-8, 8-10, 12-15 is a bit but ok now and then...vary intensity and exercises...
P

[LIVEHARD]

I would suggest 5-6, 6-8, 8-10, 12-15 is a bit but ok now and then...vary intensity and exercises...
P

Thanks P

So 12-15 reps over is over the top for size and strength gains ?
Test question you sat EOD for blood levels at 400mg per mil thats 1200mg week

unless doing 1/2ml 200mg eod ??

[-GeneticallyEnhanced-]

Hey, I'm an extreme newbie to the site but was just surfing around...

I've been strongly encouraged by many people who see me at the gym saying that I'm genetically gifted, and many people accuse me of cycling AAS. Aged 17, 5'11" and 180lbs (I'll get a check on my bf but it's quite low). I was just wondering if I should continue training hard to compete at 20 or go for it as soon as I can find myself a BB coach? And if I'm 'genetically gifted' what do you think I could naturally carry myself to without cycling on anything?

Thanks alot for your input!

[Tiamat]

Hey, I'm an extreme newbie to the site but was just surfing around...

I've been strongly encouraged by many people who see me at the gym saying that I'm genetically gifted, and many people accuse me of cycling AAS. Aged 17, 5'11" and 180lbs (I'll get a check on my bf but it's quite low). I was just wondering if I should continue training hard to compete at 20 or go for it as soon as I can find myself a BB coach? And if I'm 'genetically gifted' what do you think I could naturally carry myself to without cycling on anything?

Thanks alot for your input!

How long have you been training? Got any pics of your body (no need to put your face). And welcome to cbb :)
At 17 you are still naturally growing and full of test. Your bone platelets haven't finished growing and fusing yet. As soon as you cycle, they will fuse and that's where your bone structure will stop growing. I don't encourage it. Pre will have a better opinion than me but that's just my input.

[Praetorian]

Thanks P

So 12-15 reps over is over the top for size and strength gains ?
Test question you sat EOD for blood levels at 400mg per mil thats 1200mg week

unless doing 1/2ml 200mg eod ??

12-15 is quite high for size and strength...its a good change up now and then but 6-10 is the standard.
EOD but at 250mg...not 400mg.
P

[Praetorian]

Hey, I'm an extreme newbie to the site but was just surfing around...

I've been strongly encouraged by many people who see me at the gym saying that I'm genetically gifted, and many people accuse me of cycling AAS. Aged 17, 5'11" and 180lbs (I'll get a check on my bf but it's quite low). I was just wondering if I should continue training hard to compete at 20 or go for it as soon as I can find myself a BB coach? And if I'm 'genetically gifted' what do you think I could naturally carry myself to without cycling on anything?

Thanks alot for your input!

I would suggest getting in at least 2-3 years of training and see how things go...if you feel up to it try a local competition in the Junior Division. If you are genetically gifted youll grow fast and have a great physique in that time...but you wont ever know unless you do it. BF % means nothing...its how you look in the mirror. No one can really say what you would attain naturally...as in the Nike ad...just do it!
P

PS. aas are completely unnecessary at your age.

[LIVEHARD]

12-15 is quite high for size and strength...its a good change up now and then but 6-10 is the standard.
EOD but at 250mg...not 400mg.
P

My gear is dosed at 400mg per ml 150 tenth 150 tcyp 150 tdeconate

so a 1/2ml eod ?? or is 400mg eod that bad

i have been using 1ml 400mg every 3rd day

[Praetorian]

My gear is dosed at 400mg per ml 150 tenth 150 tcyp 150 tdeconate

so a 1/2ml eod ?? or is 400mg eod that bad

i have been using 1ml 400mg every 3rd day

1/2 ml EOD should be fine.
P

[LIVEHARD]

1/2 ml EOD should be fine.
P

Thanks Thats allot of holes but i pinn well so no worries

i prefered the straight test better but 400 for now how much difference

400 eod is to much i hear many use over a gram a week

[Praetorian]

Thanks Thats allot of holes but i pinn well so no worries

i prefered the straight test better but 400 for now how much difference

400 eod is to much i hear many use over a gram a week

1g per week is standard.
P

[LIVEHARD]

Can your size weight affect your dose ??

If your 5'2 150lbs VS a guy 6'5'' 300lbs ++

can your dose make a difference

For example will you get the same out of a G a week 150LBs Vs a guy 300+

[nisser]

Can clomid or nolva **** with sex drive?

I'm not very horny right now and I think it's due to one of these (my balls are up to size just fine).

I've done 2 weeks of 50mg clomid/20mg nolva ED and am thinking of cutting one of those out. Which is the likely culprit?

edit: Can high prolactin levels also do this? I've got no boob problems but maybe prolactin levels are high. I came off test p/tren a about 2.5 weeks ago.

[Praetorian]

Can your size weight affect your dose ??

If your 5'2 150lbs VS a guy 6'5'' 300lbs ++

can your dose make a difference

For example will you get the same out of a G a week 150LBs Vs a guy 300+

Of course...most drugs work this way.
P

[Praetorian]

Can clomid or nolva **** with sex drive?

I'm not very horny right now and I think it's due to one of these (my balls are up to size just fine).

I've done 2 weeks of 50mg clomid/20mg nolva ED and am thinking of cutting one of those out. Which is the likely culprit?

edit: Can high prolactin levels also do this? I've got no boob problems but maybe prolactin levels are high. I came off test p/tren a about 2.5 weeks ago.

Yes both can affect sex drive as they are in fact weak estrogens. However there are other variables at play here as well...is your testosterone level normal...have you fully recovered...I would bet this would be the culprit not the nolva or clomid. You need to get blood work done to be sure. Yes high prolactin can do this as well but I doubt yours would be elevated to that extent.
P

[LIVEHARD]

Of course...most drugs work this way.
P

I thought so

I was sure I need more T than an guy 150-180 LBS

The weight I trying to reach before im to old is

300-310 10-14% bf year round

Be nice to bench 450 - 500 LBS

[Big D]

I thought so

I was sure i need more T than I guy 150-180 my prime weight i trying to reach befor im to old is 300-310 10-14% bf year round

Be nice to bech 495 When you rock 5 plates for 2 or 3 reps feels great

its comming 365 for 4 today :yeah

huh ???

[LIVEHARD]

huh ???

FIXED

[C-money]

Yo P, the leaner im getting on keto, should i start having more frequent carb up meals? Ive read alot of gurus saying the leaner a guy gets the more frequent the carb up day, instead of a full week maybe every 5th day? Right now im pretty certain im around that 8-9 percent mark

[Praetorian]

Yo P, the leaner im getting on keto, should i start having more frequent carb up meals? Ive read alot of gurus saying the leaner a guy gets the more frequent the carb up day, instead of a full week maybe every 5th day? Right now im pretty certain im around that 8-9 percent mark

No, one refeed meal per week is enough, As you get leaner especially for clients the refeed meal is usually removed as well as some fat on the diet to really get down in BF.
P

[drdnj]

No, one refeed meal per week is enough, As you get leaner especially for clients the refeed meal is usually removed as well as some fat on the diet to really get down in BF.
P

Yikes!

[rockgym]

my buddy gave me hcg for my pct. i just now relalized when he gave it to me he had it in the fridge. i threw it in my sock droor.

what is the longest length of time it can be left out? by looking at the hcg, can u tell if its gone bad in any way?

[rockgym]

at what week should test levels go back to normal after running pct of nolva 40/40/20/20. when cycle was 12 wks test e 500mg ew?

when should i get my bloodwork done to see when levels have gone abck to normal range? after 4th week ?

[natenator]

Yikes!
I hear ya!!!

I've be happy to suffer more during the week if it means keeping the cheat meals in lol Even though I don't feel like eating them at the time I know I'll be pissed off once they get taken away. You hear that P? I do not want a low carb, pissed of Nate on your hands... hahaha

[JonnyO]

I hear ya!!!

I've be happy to suffer more during the week if it means keeping the cheat meals in lol Even though I don't feel like eating them at the time I know I'll be pissed off once they get taken away. You hear that P? I do not want a low carb, pissed of Nate on your hands... hahaha

Try going 10 weeks with not even as much as a mouthful or a lick of anything other than the diet, lol. Ya that sucked.

[LIVEHARD]

I'm going EOD with my Test cycle still feeling run down even after a week off


What could be wrong with gear to make you feel sick tired ??

What is Test FLU ??

I will keep you posted on eod

[Praetorian]

my buddy gave me hcg for my pct. i just now relalized when he gave it to me he had it in the fridge. i threw it in my sock droor.

what is the longest length of time it can be left out? by looking at the hcg, can u tell if its gone bad in any way?

Was it already reconstituted in water or was it still dry powder?
P

[Praetorian]

at what week should test levels go back to normal after running pct of nolva 40/40/20/20. when cycle was 12 wks test e 500mg ew?

when should i get my bloodwork done to see when levels have gone abck to normal range? after 4th week ?

Nolva by itself is lousy PCT. Your test levels will recover in time but it depends on many variables including the individual...so I cannot tell you a specific time frame. It could be 6 weeks it could be 6 months. I would suggest getting blood work done at the 6 weeks point just to see what is happening.
P

[Praetorian]

I hear ya!!!

I've be happy to suffer more during the week if it means keeping the cheat meals in lol Even though I don't feel like eating them at the time I know I'll be pissed off once they get taken away. You hear that P? I do not want a low carb, pissed of Nate on your hands... hahaha

Enjoy the easy part of dieting now...the fun begins soon!
P ;o)

[Praetorian]

I'm going EOD with my Test cycle still feeling run down even after a week off


What could be wrong with gear to make you feel sick tired ??

What is Test FLU ??

I will keep you posted on eod

You could still be overtrained and dealing with CNS issues...dont train to failure for now and just take it easy in the gym...see how you feel in a week or so.
Test flu is just a sick feeling you get when you start a cycle...the body will adapt after a few days to a week and youll feel fine. It also happens because guys take too much too soon....or just too high of a dose period.
P

[Praetorian]

Try going 10 weeks with not even as much as a mouthful or a lick of anything other than the diet, lol. Ya that sucked.

Who said BB wasnt fun!!!
P

[LIVEHARD]

?? MY mindhas been going 100 miles a hour ?? since the switch of gear

part of the reason i cant seam to sleep for more than a hour or two

Ant input on this

[Praetorian]

?? MY mindhas been going 100 miles a hour ?? since the switch of gear

part of the reason i cant seam to sleep for more than a hour or two

Ant input on this

Are you taking any stimulants ie caffeine, ephedrine, etc?
P

[natenator]

Try going 10 weeks with not even as much as a mouthful or a lick of anything other than the diet, lol. Ya that sucked.
if I was able to eat carbs it would be no problem. Carb diets I don't need the cheat meal bnecause I am already getting carbs! lol

[rockgym]

Was it already reconstituted in water or was it still dry powder?
P

still dry/unopened.
i asked same question in other forum here and some guys helped me out.
they said it can stay out of fridge for as long as you want it to, or until experation date if it hasnt been reconstituted yet, true?

[rockgym]

Nolva by itself is lousy PCT. Your test levels will recover in time but it depends on many variables including the individual...so I cannot tell you a specific time frame. It could be 6 weeks it could be 6 months. I would suggest getting blood work done at the 6 weeks point just to see what is happening.
P

im going to do this and let u know, thnx prae

[LIVEHARD]

Are you taking any stimulants ie caffeine, ephedrine, etc?
P

10 cups of coffee a day and smoking cigars

my strength has been down for the last two weeks seam to be nothing there no energy and i dont want to eat

lazy as F'k feel drained but I cant sleep mid day ??? for two hour any time ??

I CANT SLEEP AT NIGHT MYMIND RACES

[Praetorian]

still dry/unopened.
i asked same question in other forum here and some guys helped me out.
they said it can stay out of fridge for as long as you want it to, or until experation date if it hasnt been reconstituted yet, true?

It should be fine...it doesnt have to be refrigerated until reconstituted.
P

[rockgym]

It should be fine...it doesnt have to be refrigerated until reconstituted.
P

ok,great

[Praetorian]

10 cups of coffee a day and smoking cigars

my strength has been down for the last two weeks seam to be nothing there no energy and i dont want to eat

lazy as F'k feel drained but I cant sleep mid day ??? for two hour any time ??

I CANT SLEEP AT NIGHT MYMIND RACES

Wow thats alot of coffee/caffeine...sounds like you are overtrained...maybe some CNS fatigue. I would suggest cutting the coffee out or at least way down...get a decent adrenal support product...check your local health food store. You can use gaba and melatonin to help with sleep. Somalyze by Species works very well too. Also I would suggest cutting the volume of training to only one or two exercises per bodypart and one or two sets...dont train to failure...just an easy 8 reps or so for a few weeks.
P

[LIVEHARD]

Wow thats alot of coffee/caffeine...sounds like you are overtrained...maybe some CNS fatigue. I would suggest cutting the coffee out or at least way down...get a decent adrenal support product...check your local health food store. You can use gaba and melatonin to help with sleep. Somalyze by Species works very well too. Also I would suggest cutting the volume of training to only one or two exercises per bodypart and one or two sets...dont train to failure...just an easy 8 reps or so for a few weeks.
P

Thanks P called the DR he said melatonin 6-12mg before bed

He also said CNS He also said the AAS might have allot to do with it going from 500mg to over a gram

He said the aas affects will pass

[ubcpower]

Hey P,
i tried searching the thread but no luck on following:
1. What are your opinions/theories on ab training (offseason) , can u give an example of ab routine you use w/ success.
2. you mentioned earlier "adrenal support product...". as a natural competitor im kind of worried about CNS adrenal fatigue ...so a product such as this would be nice to use. Any examples of brands you know of or key ingredients with these products? can you go into more detail about these products ive never heard of them

[Praetorian]

Hey P,
i tried searching the thread but no luck on following:
1. What are your opinions/theories on ab training (offseason) , can u give an example of ab routine you use w/ success.

2. you mentioned earlier "adrenal support product...". as a natural competitor im kind of worried about CNS adrenal fatigue ...so a product such as this would be nice to use. Any examples of brands you know of or key ingredients with these products? can you go into more detail about these products ive never heard of them

1. I train abs year round 2-3 times weekly...not alot of volume but approx 6-8 total sets each time, crunches lying, standing with rope, kneeling with rope, leg raise, reverse crunches, planks. Ill pic two exercises and do 2-3 sets each about 15-20 reps.

2. A great product that i know works well through experience is called Reset AD by Palo Alto Labs. Key ingredients being pregnenolone and adrenal glandulars. A good injectable B12 will help as well.

P

[LIVEHARD]

CNS I have every symtome I'm going to try some 5-HTP

[L3]

Hey P,

I feel like my gains have stopped/slowed down to a trickle. I am ~10 weeks in. Ive varied intensity/volume on 4 week rotations...

Would it be more effective if i increased my complex carbs per meal, or increased my protein intake, or both? Right now im doin
50-55p/~50c/~15f (in grams) for 6 meals during the day
50p/60c post workout,
50p/~15f for 2 meals before bed

I am also sampling some Helios, so should be dropping bf% in the next couple weeks.

Thank you very much as always for your input!!!

[Praetorian]

CNS I have every symtome I'm going to try some 5-HTP

Get some Reset AD its much better!!
P

[Praetorian]

Hey P,

I feel like my gains have stopped/slowed down to a trickle. I am ~10 weeks in. Ive varied intensity/volume on 4 week rotations...

Would it be more effective if i increased my complex carbs per meal, or increased my protein intake, or both? Right now im doin
50-55p/~50c/~15f (in grams) for 6 meals during the day
50p/60c post workout,
50p/~15f for 2 meals before bed

I am also sampling some Helios, so should be dropping bf% in the next couple weeks.

Thank you very much as always for your input!!!

If you are trying to gain you shouldnt be taking helios! Either you gain or you diet...pick one!
P

[Praetorian]

Hey dude, Great thread. I've enjoyed what i've read so far, obviously I haven't made it through all 30 pages yet... but i've read has been great. I have a question for you, and if you already answered it, or don't want to answer it. That's completely cool. It's not so much about lifting and supplements as it is about the life.

What are the positives and negatives you've come to find over your years as a bodybuilder? Do you have any regrets? Things you would do over? Did you ever get mixed up in the bad things that some bodybuilders get mixed up in? If you haven't, have you ever seen others you know take the wrong path? I'm not asking to look down upon you in any way. A guy of your Title commands a lot of respect and I have that for you. Not only as a bodybuilder, but someone who cares about the sport and the athletes enough to take the time to answer these questions. I ask because it's no secret that some guys get lost along the way, some find themselves, some don't. That is life outside of bodybuilding as well. It just seems that, some bodybuilders won't learn lessons until it's too late. Have you any stories to share? Like I said previously, if this has been answered already, could you point me to the page. If you don't want to answer it, I totally understand as well. I'd just like to hear your philosophy on it all.


Interesting question...and a good one!
The key to being successful in BB is one learn to read. Ive read probably more than a million pages on everythg from anatomy to physics to pharmaceutical journals etc...understanding exactly what is happening is key...not anecdotal evidence which is the norm in the gym. Two- have balance in your life...if BB is the only thing in your life you will fail miserably...as they say get a life. You need other areas of interest...family, friends, relationships, career, education, etc without these you will burn out and be left with nothing. Getting to the top in any sport requires a support structure...people who love you and are honest enought to tell you the truth...not blow smoke up your ass. With a balanced life youll avoid the pitfalls most BB's fall into...ie rec drugs, party lifestyle, financial mismangement, failed relationships or marriages, suicide, jail etc
Ive seen most of these from others who couldnt deal with things very well...ive see guys OD on rec drugs, lose wives or GF's end up in jail because of tempers etc.
If you are a BB then act like a professional athlete...dress well, speak well, get educated, be industrious in business, learn to manage money, maintain and grow relationships, be honest, dont talk...just walk. Example...ss GSP says I dont talk shit...talking is easy...fighting thats difficult.
Dont act like the stereotypical meathead BB...act professional, demand respect and youll be successful.
I dont have any regrets because ive tried to follow the above rules...BB only lasts so long...life goes on afterwards so make sure to work hard and play hard.
P

[Big D]

Interesting question...and a good one!
The key to being successful in BB is one learn to read. Ive read probably more than a million pages on everythg from anatomy to physics to pharmaceutical journals etc...understanding exactly what is happening is key...not anecdotal evidence which is the norm in the gym. Two- have balance in your life...if BB is the only thing in your life you will fail miserably...as they say get a life. You need other areas of interest...family, friends, relationships, career, education, etc without these you will burn out and be left with nothing. Getting to the top in any sport requires a support structure...people who love you and are honest enought to tell you the truth...not blow smoke up your ass. With a balanced life youll avoid the pitfalls most BB's fall into...ie rec drugs, party lifestyle, financial mismangement, failed relationships or marriages, suicide, jail etc
Ive seen most of these from others who couldnt deal with things very well...ive see guys OD on rec drugs, lose wives or GF's end up in jail because of tempers etc.
If you are a BB then act like a professional athlete...dress well, speak well, get educated, be industrious in business, learn to manage money, maintain and grow relationships, be honest, dont talk...just walk. Example...ss GSP says I dont talk shit...talking is easy...fighting thats difficult.
Dont act like the stereotypical meathead BB...act professional, demand respect and youll be successful.
I dont have any regrets because ive tried to follow the above rules...BB only lasts so long...life goes on afterwards so make sure to work hard and play hard.
P

best advice ever :)

[ubcpower]

ya good post

[phatkid77]

hey P, whats your thoughts on refeed days/meals on a regular diet 50/50/20?
i understand the need whilst LOW/ZERO carbs....

i will add, i know what THE CHAD did...just thought i would get u to post some tidbits here...

phats

actually, basically...whats the purpose of it, if one is already eating 300-500 carbs a day, i guess is what im askin...llol

[bluenose]

i know what THE CHAD did...

Oh you do??? The secrets buds the secrets!

[nisser]

Going back to low libido during PCT...I'm starting to read that aromasin can also kill the sex drive. It sort of makes sense as I started having trouble 1 week into PCT which is how long it takes for aromasin to reach steady-state levels. It doesn't make sense to me. I thought high test/estrogen ratio is what gave you a high sex drive so dropping estrogen would help out, but that doesn't seem to be the case (same with letro). So I don't even know what my question is lol but maybe you have a reasonable explanation on how it works?

[Praetorian]

hey P, whats your thoughts on refeed days/meals on a regular diet 50/50/20?
i understand the need whilst LOW/ZERO carbs....

i will add, i know what THE CHAD did...just thought i would get u to post some tidbits here...

phats

actually, basically...whats the purpose of it, if one is already eating 300-500 carbs a day, i guess is what im askin...llol

Are you talking offseason? If so it is a good idea one to have a meal where you can eat whatever you like...eating like BB all the time gets very boring...two it ups the calories which are needed offseason.
P

[Praetorian]

Going back to low libido during PCT...I'm starting to read that aromasin can also kill the sex drive. It sort of makes sense as I started having trouble 1 week into PCT which is how long it takes for aromasin to reach steady-state levels. It doesn't make sense to me. I thought high test/estrogen ratio is what gave you a high sex drive so dropping estrogen would help out, but that doesn't seem to be the case (same with letro). So I don't even know what my question is lol but maybe you have a reasonable explanation on how it works?

An AI like aromasin stops the conversion of test to estrogen...dropping estrogen somewhat is fine to alleviate gyno issues or to get super hard for precontest. But dropping estro too low will cause unwanted side effects...namely zero libido. Estrogen is necessary for libido as well as for growth. That is why you should use it sparingly offseason only if required and not too high a dose while doing PCT.
P

[GYMBRAT]

Hey Prae, I was just curious on your take with my Shoulder dilemma....I have strong shoulders but they are my most lagging body part (especially my rear delts in particular)

I hit them hard once a wk like so:
seated rear db flys: 4x12
reverse peck-deck: 4x12
db shoulder press: 3x8
db lat raise: 3x8
front db raises: 3x8

I usually run it this way for 6-8 wks and then switch up my total rountine as well as switch from DB to BB

.....any thoughts on getting them to grow lol so to speak would be much appreciated..

Thanks Praetorian
GB

[nisser]

An AI like aromasin stops the conversion of test to estrogen...dropping estrogen somewhat is fine to alleviate gyno issues or to get super hard for precontest. But dropping estro too low will cause unwanted side effects...namely zero libido. Estrogen is necessary for libido as well as for growth. That is why you should use it sparingly offseason only if required and not too high a dose while doing PCT.
P

Alright thanks man. I'm hoping that's my culprit. I was only using 12.5mg ED and last dose was Wednesday so aromasin must be very effective on me. I'm hoping to get my mojo back any day soon lol

[Praetorian]

Hey Prae, I was just curious on your take with my Shoulder dilemma....I have strong shoulders but they are my most lagging body part (especially my rear delts in particular)

I hit them hard once a wk like so:
seated rear db flys: 4x12
reverse peck-deck: 4x12
db shoulder press: 3x8
db lat raise: 3x8
front db raises: 3x8

I usually run it this way for 6-8 wks and then switch up my total rountine as well as switch from DB to BB

.....any thoughts on getting them to grow lol so to speak would be much appreciated..

Thanks Praetorian
GB

I dont see any barbell military/shoulder presses? I also dont like switching up the entire routine every 6-8 weeks...how are you going to develop strength on an exercise doing that?
P

[GYMBRAT]

true, true I have been using dbs as well as bb for my press movements ie military presses......I just basically been trying anything to shock my shoulders into new growth with trying to switch it up....though I do know exactly what your sayin also bro

[phatkid77]

pffft...no secrect bluenose..haha

no P i meant whilst dieting.... if you were dieting for 16wks, would u still have the refeed day in there... i know it usually gets cut at 8 or 5wks out...just wonder what the purpose is if one is already eating carbs, and not on a keto type diet

phats

[Praetorian]

true, true I have been using dbs as well as bb for my press movements ie military presses......I just basically been trying anything to shock my shoulders into new growth with trying to switch it up....though I do know exactly what your sayin also bro

Switching things up to shock the muscle is...well in a word crap. Muscle growth comes from adaptation to a stimulus...changing things up just for the sake of change is silly. If a routine is working why change it...if it aint broke dont fix it!!
You need to develop strength is specific lifts....this wont happen if you switch things constantly.
P

[Praetorian]

pffft...no secrect bluenose..haha

no P i meant whilst dieting.... if you were dieting for 16wks, would u still have the refeed day in there... i know it usually gets cut at 8 or 5wks out...just wonder what the purpose is if one is already eating carbs, and not on a keto type diet

phats

While dieting even if you are eating carbs they will be on the low end. Thus having a refeed meal...not as often as keto but now and then still helps with thyroid and sanity.
P

[bluenose]

pffft...no secrect bluenose..haha

no P i meant whilst dieting.... if you were dieting for 16wks, would u still have the refeed day in there... i know it usually gets cut at 8 or 5wks out...just wonder what the purpose is if one is already eating carbs, and not on a keto type diet

phats


LoL.......I could tell you the " secret " was cow patties you might believe it!! I threw you a bone here and there!

[bluenose]

Also, the refed/ cheat meal what ever you like to to call them are only good if you are getting depleted not just feeling that way. Most people diet for 5 days and say they are so depleted I need a cheat meal.

[phatkid77]

I'm never depleted..hhaha (and keep feedin the sharks bones :) )

[Praetorian]

Also, the refed/ cheat meal what ever you like to to call them are only good if you are getting depleted not just feeling that way. Most people diet for 5 days and say they are so depleted I need a cheat meal.

This is not entirely true. What does depleted mean? You need to be depleted ie low carb intake to be in a fat burning mode. Most people will complain of being depleted after one week of dieting...when this is not the case. Whether on a keto or low carb diet the thyroid conversion of T4 to T3 will drop over time in addition to lowered leptin levels. Thus the metabolic rate can slow...not what you want. The additional carbs boost thyroid as well and give you an insulin spike. You arent completely filling glycogen stores on a refeed meal so the idea of going from depleted to full is misleading.
P

[bluenose]

This is not entirely true. What does depleted mean? You need to be depleted ie low carb intake to be in a fat burning mode. Most people will complain of being depleted after one week of dieting...when this is not the case. Whether on a keto or low carb diet the thyroid conversion of T4 to T3 will drop over time in addition to lowered leptin levels. Thus the metabolic rate can slow...not what you want. The additional carbs boost thyroid as well and give you an insulin spike. You arent completely filling glycogen stores on a refeed meal so the idea of going from depleted to full is misleading.
P

I guess what I was getting at was yes you have to be on low carbs/depleted and be on target with your diet to be ablee to utilized a refeed day properly. If not on low carbs/depleted then the use of a cheat day is counterproductive in my mind!

And yes what your saying is true!

[bluenose]

I'm never depleted..hhaha (and keep feedin the sharks bones :) )

LoL...you will have to start off small with chicken bones first bud!! One minute on the wagon next minute shark comments. Imagine!

[Praetorian]

I guess what I was getting at was yes you have to be on low carbs/depleted and be on target with your diet to be ablee to utilized a refeed day properly. If not on low carbs/depleted then the use of a cheat day is counterproductive in my mind!

And yes what your saying is true!


That is correct!
P ;o)

[GYMBRAT]

Switching things up to shock the muscle is...well in a word crap. Muscle growth comes from adaptation to a stimulus...changing things up just for the sake of change is silly. If a routine is working why change it...if it aint broke dont fix it!!
You need to develop strength is specific lifts....this wont happen if you switch things constantly.
P


....so basically what your saying P is dont switch it up unless youve hit a plateau.....correct?

[Praetorian]

....so basically what your saying P is dont switch it up unless youve hit a plateau.....correct?

Let me put it this way...please understand there is periodization and cycling in all training programs. This is to avoid injury as well as to avoid CNS burnout. But that is not the same as changing things up...if you are progressing using a program...why would you change it? That just doesnt make any sense.
If you've hit a plateau then you need to look at why...there could be many reasons.
P

[GYMBRAT]

get what your saying, cool gotcha P thanks again!

[natenator]

Let me put it this way...please understand there is periodization and cycling in all training programs. This is to avoid injury as well as to avoid CNS burnout. But that is not the same as changing things up...if you are progressing using a program...why would you change it? That just doesnt make any sense.
If you've hit a plateau then you need to look at why...there could be many reasons.
P
I could be wrong but I generallly follow the reason that food (lack of adding calories as you grow) as the main reason people plateau.

[Praetorian]

I could be wrong but I generallly follow the reason that food (lack of adding calories as you grow) as the main reason people plateau.

That is one reason but there are many others. Intensity level, attenuation, CNS fatigue, Overtraining, lack of sleep, stress, viruses, NSAIDs , improper form etc
P

[#8]

I am about to undergo some GH therapy to heal a badly bruised quad I received during a hockey game last week. What should my dosage amount / schedule look like? I need to heal ASAP. Please help.

[Praetorian]

I am about to undergo some GH therapy to heal a badly bruised quad I received during a hockey game last week. What should my dosage amount / schedule look like? I need to heal ASAP. Please help.

Well I hate to be the bearer of bad news but GH is not going to speed things up much at all. You are better off getting a good ART specialist to work on it. Contrast ice/heat, hyperbaric chamber(HBOT) if you can find one, spot on diet, rest.
P

[#8]

I have to take the chance of it helping a bit. I have no other choice. I will be combining it with ART therapy and proper diet / rest.

[nisser]

What's your opinion of cheat meals on maintenance diet? Should I have them? Weekly? What kind of cheat meals.

[Praetorian]

What's your opinion of cheat meals on maintenance diet? Should I have them? Weekly? What kind of cheat meals.

One cheat meal per week on a maintenance diet is fine. Preferably majority carbs.
P

[gsxr750]

What kind of things do you recommend for a cheat meal following a keto diet? Is it low fat? Pancakes? Toss me some ideas please! Just curious what will serve the purpose best..

[Benny62]

big ups P and MP, good read i've been offline for a while, good thread!

Question, if you are on a keto diet are t3's ineffective because of body chemistry due to diet?

[Praetorian]

big ups P and MP, good read i've been offline for a while, good thread!

Question, if you are on a keto diet are t3's ineffective because of body chemistry due to diet?

Definitely not...T3 is quite effective on a keto diet.
P

[Praetorian]

What kind of things do you recommend for a cheat meal following a keto diet? Is it low fat? Pancakes? Toss me some ideas please! Just curious what will serve the purpose best..

On a keto diet you want predominantly carbs...too much fat will fill you up too fast and you wont get the carb intake necessary. Pancakes with a bit of butter and maple syrup is great...you can also have a few bacon strips and eggs.
P

[pcruiser73]

Hey P, what is your take on the use of Metformin for both bulking and cutting.

Thanks

[Praetorian]

Hey P, what is your take on the use of Metformin for both bulking and cutting.

Thanks

I dont see the point....off season insulin works so much better....precontest your carb intake is minimal so it is undesirable.
P

[Vitamin S]

Hey P,

im on the palumbo diet, just for myself to see how lean i can get not competing or anything, just trying to get to single digit body fat to see a better picture of what muscle groups are lagging etc, before i start bulking again.

the question is im doing roughly 45g protein over six meals with 15g of fat over six meals.

that works out to total daily calories of 1080+810 = 1890

now im on week 10 and its not getting easier lol but say i decide to have some carbs and remove equivalent amount of fats in terms of calories

example i have now 40g carbs at dinner such as white basmati rice which is 160 calories, but remove 15-18grams of fat from one of the meals, since my total daily calories are same, would this be okay in terms of maintaing LBM while shedding body fat. i know it might throw me off ketosis, but for my own purposes will this hinder fat loss considerably.

thanks.

[Praetorian]

Hey P,

im on the palumbo diet, just for myself to see how lean i can get not competing or anything, just trying to get to single digit body fat to see a better picture of what muscle groups are lagging etc, before i start bulking again.

the question is im doing roughly 45g protein over six meals with 15g of fat over six meals.

that works out to total daily calories of 1080+810 = 1890

now im on week 10 and its not getting easier lol but say i decide to have some carbs and remove equivalent amount of fats in terms of calories

example i have now 40g carbs at dinner such as white basmati rice which is 160 calories, but remove 15-18grams of fat from one of the meals, since my total daily calories are same, would this be okay in terms of maintaing LBM while shedding body fat. i know it might throw me off ketosis, but for my own purposes will this hinder fat loss considerably.

thanks.

Yes it would throw you out of ketosis, yes it would hinder bodyfat loss! Either remain on a keto diet or dont. DP diet is not static...which means it changes as you go...that is the reason you contiune to drop BF every week and the reason you pay for his services.
P

[natenator]

Hey P,

im on the palumbo diet, just for myself to see how lean i can get not competing or anything, just trying to get to single digit body fat to see a better picture of what muscle groups are lagging etc, before i start bulking again.

the question is im doing roughly 45g protein over six meals with 15g of fat over six meals.

that works out to total daily calories of 1080+810 = 1890

now im on week 10 and its not getting easier lol but say i decide to have some carbs and remove equivalent amount of fats in terms of calories

example i have now 40g carbs at dinner such as white basmati rice which is 160 calories, but remove 15-18grams of fat from one of the meals, since my total daily calories are same, would this be okay in terms of maintaing LBM while shedding body fat. i know it might throw me off ketosis, but for my own purposes will this hinder fat loss considerably.

thanks.
just as a note here... you aren't on a Palumbo diet. If you were you would have hired him. Your on a Vitamin S diet which may or may not happen to be a similar keto style Palumbo diet but it is definitely NOT a true Palumbo diet.

[Vitamin S]

agree i am not paying for him or his services, i just read a guideline on another site rxmuscle.com posted by him and follwed, it if i was to compete i'd hire him and go all out, but im just trhying to lose body fat at the expense of msucle.

thanks.

[phatkid77]

Question about caffeine (I drink too much)

It raises corisol, I'm assuming caffeine pills have same effect...the only benefit I see is I can keep my water intake high instead of suckin back 4 coffee a day, thus not dehydrate and cramp??

Thoughts

[Praetorian]

Question about caffeine (I drink too much)

It raises corisol, I'm assuming caffeine pills have same effect...the only benefit I see is I can keep my water intake high instead of suckin back 4 coffee a day, thus not dehydrate and cramp??

Thoughts

Limit caffeine...prior to cardio and training is enough.
P

[phatkid77]

Cool, ill TRY...lol...sometimes need a fix

And since insulin was just discussed... How would u, or would u run it if only working out 3x week, but also want a lean bulk not sloppy

[phatkid77]

Stupid frigggin blackberry..
I just wanted to add, I don't think I'm ready to try insulin...always intrigued me however...but since my 5 yrs "off" my latest cycle was 300mg test...lol, nxt one is 500mg...maybe not worth it until I'm up to 1000mg and close to stopped growing ???

[Praetorian]

Stupid frigggin blackberry..
I just wanted to add, I don't think I'm ready to try insulin...always intrigued me however...but since my 5 yrs "off" my latest cycle was 300mg test...lol, nxt one is 500mg...maybe not worth it until I'm up to 1000mg and close to stopped growing ???

Dont worry about insulin for the next few years...concentrate on perfecting your diet, training etc.
P

[phatkid77]

grrrrrrr..lol
thanks P... as i said..just curios..

phats

[pcruiser73]

While on the topic of insulin, is it worth playing with unless you are a national level competitor? What would the difference be in muscle gains in a year with all other things being equal. Say I gained 10 pounds of real muscle in a year with AAS and GH, spot on diet, etc. What would insulin do for me? Is insulin something you start throwing in when you have reached your limit in size with gear and GH.

[Praetorian]

While on the topic of insulin, is it worth playing with unless you are a national level competitor? What would the difference be in muscle gains in a year with all other things being equal. Say I gained 10 pounds of real muscle in a year with AAS and GH, spot on diet, etc. What would insulin do for me? Is insulin something you start throwing in when you have reached your limit in size with gear and GH.

Insulin is only necessary if your gains have come to a halt with aas and GH. Prolonged use of GH can result in insulin resistance which will prevent additional muscle gains with exogenous insulin. Using insulin when unnecessary will result in a large deposit of body fat. It is impossible to say what gains would occur by using it...its very individualistic.
P

[Timbo89]

how effective doo you find anavar for cutting? with a good diet and exercise routine as well of course.

[Skyblob]

Hey bro! Thanks for all your advices!

Here are my questions .

- What do you think about the Big Beyond Belief program? i want to try it for gaining mass during winter , i dont know if ill run the 4 day/week or 6day/week

-CJC-1295/GHRP-6 combo for mass with some test in it .. im 18 years old almost 19.
( im focusing mainly on diet and training )

-Im planning on competing in a couple months .. next year on may ( quebec de l'ouest ) and what would you suggest me for mass cycle this winter ?

Big thanks to you bro !!!

[natenator]

****ing 18 years olds and juice.

[Praetorian]

Hey bro! Thanks for all your advices!

Here are my questions .

- What do you think about the Big Beyond Belief program? i want to try it for gaining mass during winter , i dont know if ill run the 4 day/week or 6day/week

-CJC-1295/GHRP-6 combo for mass with some test in it .. im 18 years old almost 19.
( im focusing mainly on diet and training )

-Im planning on competing in a couple months .. next year on may ( quebec de l'ouest ) and what would you suggest me for mass cycle this winter ?

Big thanks to you bro !!!


You are much to young for aas period. Concentrate on training and diet. CJC and GHRP IMO are just a waste of money. I have no experience with the program you mentioned....the main thing you need to concentrate on is getting stronger on the basics and eating alot of clean food.
P

[Praetorian]

how effective doo you find anavar for cutting? with a good diet and exercise routine as well of course.

If you are female its great. For a male BB....test is a much better alternative.
P

[Benny62]

Ok, I know everyone loves test. I seem to be the opposite. I am very athletic and love cross training type of workouts blended with BB and powerlifting type workouts. I haven't enjoyed my test cycles as much as i have enjoyed Tren/w anabolic or an anabolic combo like deca/primo, primo/ var. But i really loved Test prop/Mast cycle for the winter. Is it just me? I find i feel like a lazy male lion when on test. I get stong and only want to push weights and find it easy to skip my cardio? Is there a way to counter this or what?

[LonelyBedouin]

Do your marcos change at all while on a cycle?

[Praetorian]

Ok, I know everyone loves test. I seem to be the opposite. I am very athletic and love cross training type of workouts blended with BB and powerlifting type workouts. I haven't enjoyed my test cycles as much as i have enjoyed Tren/w anabolic or an anabolic combo like deca/primo, primo/ var. But i really loved Test prop/Mast cycle for the winter. Is it just me? I find i feel like a lazy male lion when on test. I get stong and only want to push weights and find it easy to skip my cardio? Is there a way to counter this or what?

Test is the base of any cycle. Doing tren or deca without test is a recipe for disaster. You will feel like crap and most likely have no libido. Your diet will dictate your energy levels not the aas used. If your carbs are high youll most likely feel lethargic...increase your fat intake and lower carbs and youll feel better.
P

[Praetorian]

Do your marcos change at all while on a cycle?

Not really I just eat less meals.
P

[phatkid77]

how would you construct a workout routine for 3 days a week? for someone that needs to say...... gain muscle and lose fat....lol

i was just reading the bill starr 5x5...seems interesting....

phats

[Praetorian]

how would you construct a workout routine for 3 days a week? for someone that needs to say...... gain muscle and lose fat....lol

i was just reading the bill starr 5x5...seems interesting....

phats

First off you dont gain muscle and lose fat...pick one. If I was training three days per week I would do a puch, pull, legs routine.
P

[Vitamin S]

My current weekly routine is monday to friday, weekends off due to work hours.

it goes
monday - chest
tuesday - back
wednesday - legs
thursday -arms
friday - shoulders

is this effective like the order of exercises? or would i be better off throwing triceps with chest and biceps with back and taking extra day off?

i like to spread it out over 5 days as this way im doing something instead of being at home and bored, since i work weekends.

im dieting not sure if that makes a difference??

also can one double up on a lagging body part while dieting or makes no sense like hit upper chest twice a week, once with chest and once before i start shoulders on shoulder day?

[LIVEHARD]

So I added the EQ to my t 400 cycle I pin EOD now and I feel great

?? Do you think the EQ and the EOD had an effect

1200 mg T a week 900 mg EQ week

[Praetorian]

My current weekly routine is monday to friday, weekends off due to work hours.

it goes
monday - chest
tuesday - back
wednesday - legs
thursday -arms
friday - shoulders

is this effective like the order of exercises? or would i be better off throwing triceps with chest and biceps with back and taking extra day off?

i like to spread it out over 5 days as this way im doing something instead of being at home and bored, since i work weekends.

im dieting not sure if that makes a difference??

also can one double up on a lagging body part while dieting or makes no sense like hit upper chest twice a week, once with chest and once before i start shoulders on shoulder day?

I would switch the ams and shoulders days...also i would never train more than 3 days in a row without a rest day. Fine while dieting just get in a rest day. You dont build muscle while dieting...double up off season.
P

[Praetorian]

So I added the EQ to my t 400 cycle I pin EOD now and I feel great

?? Do you think the EQ and the EOD had an effect

1200 mg T a week 900 mg EQ week

The EOD pinning will make you feel better...more stableblood levels...the eq doesnt help with feeling better...just an added anabolic.
P

[ubcpower]

Hey P,
in your opinion what are the crucial modifications and differences in terms of training , diet and cardio for the offseason between natural and enhanced competitors?

[LIVEHARD]

I was getting tingeing in the nips on Test only I was using and anti E

since I added the EQ those sides are gone ??

[Praetorian]

Hey P,
in your opinion what are the crucial modifications and differences in terms of training , diet and cardio for the offseason between natural and enhanced competitors?

A natural athlete must be much more precise in terms of training volume, diet, and cardio offseason. An enhanced athlete can have higher volume, be less strict on diet, and get away with very little cardio.
P

[Praetorian]

I was getting tingeing in the nips on Test only I was using and anti E

since I added the EQ those sides are gone ??

EQ has no effect on reducing estrogen sides...it does actually aromatize itself...your blood levels of whatever anti E you are using most likely got into the necessary range.
P

[LIVEHARD]

I Think EOD played the biggest role when I swiched to EOD thats when I add the EQ and droped the anti E's

No sides feel great thanks P

[Jimdawg]

I read in several of your posts that you would start dbol at week 4 in a cycle when taken w/ test. Just curious why it wouldn't be used for the first 4 weeks until test kicks in as opposed to only starting at week 4 for 4-5 weeks.

Thanks

[Praetorian]

I read in several of your posts that you would start dbol at week 4 in a cycle when taken w/ test. Just curious why it wouldn't be used for the first 4 weeks until test kicks in as opposed to only starting at week 4 for 4-5 weeks.

Thanks

The idea is to get the synergistic effect of both compounds...ie 1+1=3
The sum of the parts are not equal to the whole...this means you get more out of two compounds used together than one at a time back to back. If running test prop or susp then start dbol the same time. If running long esters then start week 4.
P

[Praetorian]

I was getting tingeing in the nips on Test only I was using and anti E

since I added the EQ those sides are gone ??

EOD equals stable blood levels=less sides=feeling better.
P

[Jimdawg]

The idea is to get the synergistic effect of both compounds...ie 1+1=3
The sum of the parts are not equal to the whole...this means you get more out of two compounds used together than one at a time back to back. If running test prop or susp then start dbol the same time. If running long esters then start week 4.
P

Good to know. That makes a lot of sense when you really think about. Thanks a million.

[bigtavi8]

Hey P is there any supplements, vitamins, etc. That you recomend taking to maximize gains and health while on cycle. Just say a bread and butter test run is there anything besides diet and pounds of food that are neccesary.

[Praetorian]

Hey P is there any supplements, vitamins, etc. That you recomend taking to maximize gains and health while on cycle. Just say a bread and butter test run is there anything besides diet and pounds of food that are neccesary.

IMO essentials include EFA's (fish oil caps), multivitamin, vitamin C, joint support (MSM+glucosamine-Arthrolyze is one of the best), Creapure brand creatine mono, whey protein.
P

[ubcpower]

P, it seems everywhere i read these days some bodybuilder or powerlifter is suffering from hernia problems and needing ot get surgery...etc. Is there anything that one can do to ensure this doesnt happen? things to stay away from particularly in training that you know of? thanks

[gsxr750]

Do you know of a few people who had gyno surgery? Any doctors you'd recommend or heard good things about?

Thanks!

[MMASTAR]

What is the maximum daily dosage of clen that is "safe"?

[Praetorian]

P, it seems everywhere i read these days some bodybuilder or powerlifter is suffering from hernia problems and needing ot get surgery...etc. Is there anything that one can do to ensure this doesnt happen? things to stay away from particularly in training that you know of? thanks

IMO a strong core is essential. Here is an article that helps explain things.
P

http://stanford.wellsphere.com/exercise-article/how-to-prevent-sports-hernias-warning-may-be-illegal-in-19-states/623440

[Praetorian]

Do you know of a few people who had gyno surgery? Any doctors you'd recommend or heard good things about?

Thanks!

I know of afew guys that have had it but I do not know which surgeons did the work. Most guys go to there GP and get a referral to a specialist.
I know of a good one in NY but it would cost you.
P

[Praetorian]

What is the maximum daily dosage of clen that is "safe"?

There is really no "safe" dosage however most guys tolerate up to 120-150mcg daily without much in the way of sides. I rarely have my clients go above 120mcg daily.
P

[Vitamin S]

i picked up some ground flax seed as another fat source. am i able to throw it into my protein shake and blend it, or will it ruin the flax similar too how udo's oil is't suppose to be blended or vigouralsy shaked.

[Praetorian]

That will work fine.
P

[Jimdawg]

I find it hard to eat more after the show in the off-season. I get stuck in eating purely clean foods in smaller quantities. I am use to my meal carb source coming from Oatmeal, brown rice and sweet potatoes. In the off-season is it kosher to eat white potatoes, whole-wheat pasta or w.w bagels along side protein? Also, would you recommend carbs w/ dinner or nightime meal in the off-season? Thanks.

[Praetorian]

I find it hard to eat more after the show in the off-season. I get stuck in eating purely clean foods in smaller quantities. I am use to my meal carb source coming from Oatmeal, brown rice and sweet potatoes. In the off-season is it kosher to eat white potatoes, whole-wheat pasta or w.w bagels along side protein? Also, would you recommend carbs w/ dinner or nightime meal in the off-season? Thanks.

Yes you can use those carb sources offseason...prior to bed i prefer a casein protein like cottage cheese with a fat source...ideally your last meal should be protein and fat.
P

[LIVEHARD]

I have ask this before I want to reconfirm ??

Why do you feel a 5 day split is better than a 4

Is this a good split ??

1 chest
2 back
3 off
4 legs
5 shoulders
6 arms
7 off
repeat
anything you might switch up order wise ??

or a 4 day
1 back
2 shoulders triceps
3 off
4 legs
5 chest biceps
6 off
repeat
The 4 day hits all groups over 6 days VS the 5 day over 7

I ask because as of Monday my work slows to normal and i have more time to focus on the gym !! Diet !!

[LIVEHARD]

Am or PM Workouts ???

I have a choice train at 9-10 am or at 11 pm at night

Do you fell AM is beter than a PM workout or Visa Versa

[Jimdawg]

I appreciate you taking the time to answer our questions. I do have one more...

After running a cycle, say Test / var, Test / EQ, or Test / Win, I use PCT and take the same time off then I was on the gear, but by the time I start a cycle again, I only have kept 3-5 lbs from my cycle that I had gained 10-15lbs from. Is it normal to only gain 3-5lbs in the long run once everythign is said and done on each cycle or should I be consulting somebody in regards to running better cycles and controlling my off periods? Thnx

[LIVEHARD]

Core strength ??

How big a role dose core strength play in over all strength ?

How would you train your core ?? X a week ?

What exercises are best over all ??

[Praetorian]

I have ask this before I want to reconfirm ??

Why do you feel a 5 day split is better than a 4

Is this a good split ??

1 chest
2 back
3 off
4 legs
5 shoulders
6 arms
7 off
repeat
anything you might switch up order wise ??

or a 4 day
1 back
2 shoulders triceps
3 off
4 legs
5 chest biceps
6 off
repeat
The 4 day hits all groups over 6 days VS the 5 day over 7

I ask because as of Monday my work slows to normal and i have more time to focus on the gym !! Diet !!

Both workouts are very good. I prefer the 5 day split because the workout is faster...less time in the gym and you can concentrate on a single bodypart.
I like the first one best!!
P

[Praetorian]

Core strength ??

How big a role dose core strength play in over all strength ?

How would you train your core ?? X a week ?

What exercises are best over all ??

Core strength is critical in overall strength. Best exercises for core would include squats, deads, bent rows, and good mornings. Also you need to work abdominals correctly...standing rope crunches and lying planks are two of the best exercises. I dont believe in having a specific day for core the above exercises will suffice. Stay away from any balancing acts on bosu balls etc thats is just BS.
P

[Praetorian]

Am or PM Workouts ???

I have a choice train at 9-10 am or at 11 pm at night

Do you fell AM is beter than a PM workout or Visa Versa

Hmm not much of a choice...in this case I would go with am...but get up early and get some food into you. 11pm at night is too late to lift heavy IMO.
P

[Praetorian]

I appreciate you taking the time to answer our questions. I do have one more...

After running a cycle, say Test / var, Test / EQ, or Test / Win, I use PCT and take the same time off then I was on the gear, but by the time I start a cycle again, I only have kept 3-5 lbs from my cycle that I had gained 10-15lbs from. Is it normal to only gain 3-5lbs in the long run once everythign is said and done on each cycle or should I be consulting somebody in regards to running better cycles and controlling my off periods? Thnx

First off var and winny are useless offseason for males. Your cycles should be test+EQ, test+deca, or test+tren...depending on your experience and cycle history. Most of the weight gained on a cycle is not muscle...so dont expect to keep it all. After running PCT get blood work done to see where your levels are and you may be able to start earlier.
P

[LIVEHARD]

core ? I was planning on working core before bed at home.

Can you post a sample core routine I can do at work or home ??

ever other day I'll assume this is ok ?

Regarding flexibility I started a stretching routine in the evening before bed ED

How great a role dose flexibility play in muscle growth ?

I am finding as i get bigger and stronger I'm loosing range of motion

Is ED stretching a good idea ??

[Praetorian]

core ? I was planning on working core before bed at home.

Can you post a sample core routine I can do at work or home ??

ever other day I'll assume this is ok ?

Regarding flexibility I started a stretching routine in the evening before bed ED

How great a role dose flexibility play in muscle growth ?

I am finding as i get bigger and stronger I'm loosing range of motion

Is ED stretching a good idea ??

Most core exercises are done in the gym...ie squats, deads etc. Some can be done at such as abdomnal work ie planks,

Here is a link to some good programs...

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_repair/21st_century_core_training

Stretching is very important in performance and growth. Stretching should always be performed after training.
P

[LIVEHARD]

So stretching before bed ZZZ is not good ?

I found it help me relax and ZZZ

any good links to proper stretching ??

[Praetorian]

So stretching before bed ZZZ is not good ?

I found it help me relax and ZZZ

any good links to proper stretching ??

Stretching before bed is fine...post workout is best.

Do a search on google for PNF stretching...that works the best.
P

[C-money]

Hey P, what your take on "up the dose, lift the most"?:D

[LIVEHARD]

The Stretching Institute ??

What's your take on this place

[Praetorian]

Hey P, what your take on "up the dose, lift the most"?:D

Ignorance fosters incompetence and leads to health problems...whom ever follows that advice is a moron.
P

[Praetorian]

The Stretching Institute ??

What's your take on this place

May be good information but its unnecessary to spend money to get it. Its all over the internet for free. Just search for it.
P

[swole44]

hey P,

do you think eating a dozen whole eggs a day is a really bad thing? like 6 in the morning and 6 at night?

should i switch to egg whites?

[LIVEHARD]

Regarding training in the AM If i train at 9-930am

what time should i be up to eat at and how much food in take and time is required before training :bch

[ubcpower]

hey P,

do you think eating a dozen whole eggs a day is a really bad thing? like 6 in the morning and 6 at night?

should i switch to egg whites?

x2 , im eating 11/day right now and really would like to follow this offseason diet for a while... doing cardio too though if that matters

[bigtavi8]

P if one has problem with coming off and have rough PCT would it be smart to taper down on the dose the last few weeks. On a 15 week test cycle at 500mg.ew would you say cut 100mg per shot starting week 13 or something???

[Praetorian]

hey P,

do you think eating a dozen whole eggs a day is a really bad thing? like 6 in the morning and 6 at night?

should i switch to egg whites?

As long as you are eating Omega 3 eggs that is perfectly fine.
P

[Praetorian]

x2 , im eating 11/day right now and really would like to follow this offseason diet for a while... doing cardio too though if that matters

See post above.
P

[Praetorian]

P if one has problem with coming off and have rough PCT would it be smart to taper down on the dose the last few weeks. On a 15 week test cycle at 500mg.ew would you say cut 100mg per shot starting week 13 or something???

At 500mg per week if its a long ester there is no need to taper. Start HCG one week after your last shot of test...youll still have test in your system while priming it for recovery.
P

[Praetorian]

Regarding training in the AM If i train at 9-930am

what time should i be up to eat at and how much food in take and time is required before training :bch

I would eat at 6-6:30 then have another small shake about 45 minutes before training.
P

[LIVEHARD]

I would eat at 6-6:30 then have another small shake about 45 minutes before training.
P

Only birds wake up that early.

I guess ill try and start ?? Or

I dont get home from work till 12 midnight I'll start pushing my workouts to 10-11am thats another option

gym is less busy and this hotttie trains around noon LOL

maybe ill get some fun cardio in after LOL

Thanks P

[nisser]

How long should I stay off clen before clearing everything so I can restart using it again?

[Vitamin S]

Hey P

if hcg is not available to use as pct, what else can be taken and for how long and what amount to restore the hpta axis as best as possible?

also any other supps to take alongside such as test booster, etc

is the pct included in the time off between cycles

tjx

[Praetorian]

How long should I stay off clen before clearing everything so I can restart using it again?


Why would you need to go back on so quickly? I would go off for a few months at least.
P

[Praetorian]

Hey P

if hcg is not available to use as pct, what else can be taken and for how long and what amount to restore the hpta axis as best as possible?

also any other supps to take alongside such as test booster, etc

is the pct included in the time off between cycles

tjx

HCG is an integral part of PCT...if you have been on any kind of serious cycle it will take a long time to recover without it. You can run clomid and nolva for 3 weeks with an off period in between and a small amount of an AI ...ie aromasin 12.5mg EOD.
50mg clomid twice daily
20mg nolva once per day
ZMA may help if you are deficient

It will just take extra time to recover...get blood work done two weeks after the clomid/nolva run to see where your endo test level is.
P

[nisser]

Why would you need to go back on so quickly? I would go off for a few months at least.
P

Used it for PCT, was going to start cutting after but life got hectic so stopped using it.

[Praetorian]

Used it for PCT, was going to start cutting after but life got hectic so stopped using it.

I would take a month or so off at least.
P

[Vitamin S]

In your opinion...

what are the top 3 exercises for building back width (the area around the upper lats) kind of the area where most are saying dennis wolfe lacks.

i know genetics plays a role and smaller waist broader shoulders helps, but what top 3 exercises are crucial and sets and reps to really target it.

for overall thickness i do deads, and seated row.

thanks.

[LIVEHARD]

Cardio question ??

I was wondering ??

If I did my cardio at night after work around midnight 3 days a week

Would it have a negative effect on my muscle mass ??

Would evening cardio still help with BF loss ??

Could doing cardio that late effect my sleep ??

[Praetorian]

In your opinion...

what are the top 3 exercises for building back width (the area around the upper lats) kind of the area where most are saying dennis wolfe lacks.

i know genetics plays a role and smaller waist broader shoulders helps, but what top 3 exercises are crucial and sets and reps to really target it.

for overall thickness i do deads, and seated row.

thanks.

The top three overall back exercises bar none are deads, bent rows, and chins.
Chins are probably the best for width, with straight arm or nautilus pullover being second. Bent rows do build some width along with thickness. If you train these exercises and add in a few others youll build a decent back.
P

[Praetorian]

Cardio question ??

I was wondering ??

If I did my cardio at night after work around midnight 3 days a week

Would it have a negative effect on my muscle mass ??

Would evening cardio still help with BF loss ??
Could doing cardio that late effect my sleep ??


IF YOUR DIET IS DECENT IT SHOULDNT AS LONG AS IT NOT OVERLY INTENSE

YES IT WOULD

IT MIGHT...SOME PEOPLE FIND IT DIFFICULT TO SLEEP AFTERWARDS SOME DONT...ITS INDIVIDUALISTIC

p

[LIVEHARD]

IF YOUR DIET IS DECENT IT SHOULDNT AS LONG AS IT NOT OVERLY INTENSE

YES IT WOULD

IT MIGHT...SOME PEOPLE FIND IT DIFFICULT TO SLEEP AFTERWARDS SOME DONT...ITS INDIVIDUALISTIC

p

I guess i should eat after i run at night ??

I was planning 5 k slow low Intensity

Everyone says post workout and fasted AM

The evening run/ walk fit into my life way easier so its ok 3 days a week EOD

[LIVEHARD]

Starting week 13 of my cycle

for the first 4 weeks it was T400 at 800 mg week and 30mg dbol

week 4-7 the T only added the eq 6 weeks ago

now my doses are 1200 T400 and 900 Eq a week EOD pinning

I was thinking of adding the Dbol again since you recommended it as a mid cycle addition

Im running this one for 22-24 weeks

[Praetorian]

I guess i should eat after i run at night ??

I was planning 5 k slow low Intensity

Everyone says post workout and fasted AM

The evening run/ walk fit into my life way easier so its ok 3 days a week EOD

Walking is fine...running is not. Not if you are trying to build muscle.
P

[Praetorian]

Starting week 13 of my cycle

for the first 4 weeks it was T400 at 800 mg week and 30mg dbol

week 4-7 the T only added the eq 6 weeks ago

now my doses are 1200 T400 and 900 Eq a week EOD pinning

I was thinking of adding the Dbol again since you recommended it as a mid cycle addition

Im running this one for 22-24 weeks

Im not a fan of orals...they tend to kill appetite...IMO I dont think you need the dbol.
P

[LIVEHARD]

I'm not a fan of orals...they tend to kill appetite...IMO I don't think you need the dbol.
P

I asked because i hated my run on the dbol I don't mind pinning !

So I should walk and if i do fasted 6-10k walk not a run

Should i ever run ?? up the intensity

[Praetorian]

I asked because i hated my run on the dbol I don't mind pinning !

So I should walk and if i do fasted 6-10k walk not a run

Should i ever run ?? up the intensity

Skip the dbol...only run if you want to be skinny otherwise walk.
P

[LIVEHARD]

Walking VS running

for fat loss ?

So you think walking is enough ??

how far ??

how long ??

how many times a week ??

[Skyblob]

I walk 45 minutes rapid walk everyday after my workout .. I walk to get home

[Praetorian]

Walking VS running

for fat loss ?

So you think walking is enough ??

how far ??

how long ??

how many times a week ??




Running will cause muscle loss...never run while dieting.

I dont think walking is enough...I know!

On a 16 week diet start with 45 mins once per day...by the end youll be doing 2-2.5 hours daily. (a fairly brisk walk)

P

[LIVEHARD]

Running will cause muscle loss...never run while dieting.

I dont think walking is enough...I know!

On a 16 week diet start with 45 mins once per day...by the end youll be doing 2-2.5 hours daily. (a fairly brisk walk)

P

Am ? Post workout ? or Pm after work midnight ?

Im still trying to put mass on i just want to drop some BF

[Praetorian]

Am ? Post workout ? or Pm after work midnight ?

Im still trying to put mass on i just want to drop some BF


While DIETING (ie for fat loss) cardio is done on an empty stomach...ie first thing in the morning and post workout.


You are NOT going to put on mass while losing bodyfat sorry not going to happen. Choose one...gain mass or lose fat!!
P

[phatty]

im planning on doing provincials in june /10. im currently on and been making some good gains but i think i should parolly go off till end of december and then do a 10 week bulk and then start dieting for the show. does that sound alright or should i just stay off untill 16 weeks out the start juicin and dieting. i want to come in about 230 or so and i dont think i will be able to hold all my size for that long off.
thanks

[Praetorian]

im planning on doing provincials in june /10. im currently on and been making some good gains but i think i should parolly go off till end of december and then do a 10 week bulk and then start dieting for the show. does that sound alright or should i just stay off untill 16 weeks out the start juicin and dieting. i want to come in about 230 or so and i dont think i will be able to hold all my size for that long off.
thanks

If you are planning on the provincials for June 2010 then you woudl have to start dieting sometime in April depending on the contest date. How long have you been on? Depending on your answer you could go off ...run PCT for 6-8 weeks and get in a lean mass cycle prior to MArch. Then in March run PCT again and prepare for a 16 week precontest diet come mid April.
If you are thinking of coming in at 230lbs I would assume you are approx 280lbs now and fairly lean...is that correct?
P

[LIVEHARD]

While DIETING (ie for fat loss) cardio is done on an empty stomach...ie first thing in the morning and post workout.


You are NOT going to put on mass while losing bodyfat sorry not going to happen. Choose one...gain mass or lose fat!!
P

I guess it mass and i'll diet for next summer. As you know summer is over in To another 8 week and its the season of grey slushhhh !!


Thanks P

So I'm around 285LBS at 6'4.5'' Tall 15% ish BF whatking of Cal intake do I need to build lean muscle mass ??

[LIVEHARD]

I just found the Arnold Schwarzenegger Encyclopedia of modern BB

Also The Muscle Mag ( Robert Kennedy ) Encyclopedia of BB A-Z

Both books were the latest editions

They were on sale at a local book store for 54$ for both

I figured WTH its something to read at work !!

Are any of these book any good ???

Do they provide up to date knowledge of diet and training ????

There both big enough F'k me LOL

[phatty]

If you are planning on the provincials for June 2010 then you woudl have to start dieting sometime in April depending on the contest date. How long have you been on? Depending on your answer you could go off ...run PCT for 6-8 weeks and get in a lean mass cycle prior to MArch. Then in March run PCT again and prepare for a 16 week precontest diet come mid April.
If you are thinking of coming in at 230lbs I would assume you are approx 280lbs now and fairly lean...is that correct?
P

yah about 280 decently lean- i did juniors and came in at 220 maybe a little heavier contest day and i im about 15 pounds heavier and leaner than i was when i started dieting for that show. i think i was about 265 before dieting down for that show. ive only been on for about 6 weeks right now taking about 1000 mg test enth/prop blend, 6 units of hgh and 8 iu of slin morning and after workout.

[Praetorian]

yah about 280 decently lean- i did juniors and came in at 220 maybe a little heavier contest day and i im about 15 pounds heavier and leaner than i was when i started dieting for that show. i think i was about 265 before dieting down for that show. ive only been on for about 6 weeks right now taking about 1000 mg test enth/prop blend, 6 units of hgh and 8 iu of slin morning and after workout.

It will all depend on the condition you bring. Thats why I hate numbers...230 means nothing if you arent pealed. Many guys talk numbers and come in smooth...that doesnt win shows. I count christmas tree lower back and striated glutes as the defacto standard on what lean really means. When you were 220 in the juniors did you have striated glutes? If not you may not come in at 230 but 218-220...the number however isnt important...your condition is!
P

[Praetorian]

I just found the Arnold Schwarzenegger Encyclopedia of modern BB

Also The Muscle Mag ( Robert Kennedy ) Encyclopedia of BB A-Z

Both books were the latest editions

They were on sale at a local book store for 54$ for both

I figured WTH its something to read at work !!

Are any of these book any good ???

Do they provide up to date knowledge of diet and training ????

There both big enough F'k me LOL

They are a good overall look at BB...not something I would base training and diet on today however...but a good read.
P

[LIVEHARD]

They are a good overall look at BB...not something I would base training and diet on today however...but a good read.
P

What are the issues with the Diets and the Training ??

[tiramisu]

When did striated glutes become a minimum measure of conditioning? I don't understand the judging criteria terribly well and they seem to move over time ??

In a lot of ways it seems like bodybuilding can become a dieting contest rather than a body building contest if the field is weak. When I look at Shelby Starnes for example I see incredible conditioning and good to excellent genetics but limited body building. In competition however the judges see a body builder good enough to win his class. When I look at Zoa Linsey or Shawn Rhoden I see a body builders who are class winners without over dieting.

How/When did the IFBB start scoring up the extreme conditioning? I know turtle tummy really got started with Dorian but outside of Munzer I don't know much about the history of crazy conditioning.

[bigtavi8]

**** man you were 220 at juniors. Dam thats mass. I was 177 and the class winner and overall winner was 183. You had 40 pounds of lean mass on me. Good work man!

[Praetorian]

When did striated glutes become a minimum measure of conditioning? I don't understand the judging criteria terribly well and they seem to move over time ??

In a lot of ways it seems like bodybuilding can become a dieting contest rather than a body building contest if the field is weak. When I look at Shelby Starnes for example I see incredible conditioning and good to excellent genetics but limited body building. In competition however the judges see a body builder good enough to win his class. When I look at Zoa Linsey or Shawn Rhoden I see a body builders who are class winners without over dieting.

How/When did the IFBB start scoring up the extreme conditioning? I know turtle tummy really got started with Dorian but outside of Munzer I don't know much about the history of crazy conditioning.

Have you watched a pro show anytime recently...if you are not conditioned...ie striated glutes, separated hams etc you arent in the first call out. This level trickles down to the NPC and the CBBF...have you seen the progression at the Ontarios in the last five years? Go to RXMuscle and go through the play by play on every pro show this year...find the common denominator.
P

[Praetorian]

What are the issues with the Diets and the Training ??

They are similar to what you would read in the magazines...not reality.
P

[phatty]

well im 6'1 so its really not all that impressive. i got second heavy weights and the guy who beat me had been to nationals before and lookk really outta place he had to requalify cause he moved provinces or something he was saying. He did nationals this year and placed like 14th in heavyweights and looked like shit compared to the junior show. now i know your going to say thats because he was standing next to national guys but he was full of water and had hardly any definition from looking at his individuals on md.com.

as for my show i coulda prolly came in a little tighter too im not really looking for a number to come in at just trying to give you an idea of where i am. thanks P!

[phatty]

**** man you were 220 at juniors. Dam thats mass. I was 177 and the class winner and overall winner was 183. You had 40 pounds of lean mass on me. Good work man!

oops i never really meant juniors just amatuers- here you have to do an amatuer show once before you can go to provincials. supposed to be everyones first show i think but some guys go in it twice

[Praetorian]

well im 6'1 so its really not all that impressive. i got second heavy weights and the guy who beat me had been to nationals before and lookk really outta place he had to requalify cause he moved provinces or something he was saying. He did nationals this year and placed like 14th in heavyweights and looked like shit compared to the junior show. now i know your going to say thats because he was standing next to national guys but he was full of water and had hardly any definition from looking at his individuals on md.com.

as for my show i coulda prolly came in a little tighter too im not really looking for a number to come in at just trying to give you an idea of where i am. thanks P!

No prob I hear ya...stay focused off season and you should do well come comtest time.
P

[LIVEHARD]

Whats the longest time you would run a cycle

By the time i finish the EQ of my T/EQ cycle i will be into 22 weeks

If you remember the first 8 weeks were T only twice a week 800mg/week

Now im running 1200mgT/900mg/EQ week Mon Wed Fri

How long is my max time before PCT

How long should i be off AAS ?? Some say Time on + PCT = Time off

[Praetorian]

Whats the longest time you would run a cycle

By the time i finish the EQ of my T/EQ cycle i will be into 22 weeks

If you remember the first 8 weeks were T only twice a week 800mg/week

Now im running 1200mgT/900mg/EQ week Mon Wed Fri

How long is my max time before PCT

How long should i be off AAS ?? Some say Time on + PCT = Time off

I would say its time to go off anytime now...22 weeks is a long time on.



PCT will last 2 weeks HCG+3 weeks clomid + off time 4-6 weeks = total close to 12 weeks Get blood work done 2 weeks after finishing clomid.

P

[LIVEHARD]

I would say its time to go off anytime now...22 weeks is a long time on.



PCT will last 2 weeks HCG+3 weeks clomid + off time 4-6 weeks = total close to 12 weeks Get blood work done 2 weeks after finishing clomid.

P

i just entered week 13

What are the negatives with being on too long

[Praetorian]

i just entered week 13

What are the negatives with being on too long

16 weeks is about right...then you can start PCT. Being on too long makes recovery much more difficult other sides that could develop. generally after 16 weeks you usually feel like coming off anyway...its good to give your body a break and clean out...thus making the next cycle much more productive.
P

[LIVEHARD]

16 weeks is about right...then you can start PCT. Being on too long makes recovery much more difficult other sides that could develop. generally after 16 weeks you usually feel like coming off anyway...its good to give your body a break and clean out...thus making the next cycle much more productive.
P

i guess ill be ready for pct oct 1st thanks

[phatkid77]

A. do you think hitting weak bodypart (legs) 2x week is that beneficial?

b. about staying on too long...what would your theory be about someone thats does blasts while on HRT....so never off of say the 100mg/wk prescription...what would you do then?? take 6-8wks off any "extras" or even drop the test and run a pct....even tho YOU WILL NOT GO BACK TO A NORMAL LEVEL...JUST THE LOW LEVEL...

thanks P

phats

[dremen]

Praetorian i have a few questions please.

First im 6'2'', 210lb.s, early 30's. This is my lifting routine, do you see any problems with it and if so please post up what u think would be better. Im looking to bulk up to 220lbs natural. Protein/300, cals/4000 ED.

Monday/chest,biceps,abs
Tuesday/back,traps,calfs
Wednsday/Off
Thursday/quads,hams
Friday/Deltoids,triceps
Saturday/calfs,forearms


Also my right tricept(the T) is a lot smaller then my left tricept and was wondering what movement would be best to use to make it grow better?


Thanks very much for any help you can give:D

[Praetorian]

A. do you think hitting weak bodypart (legs) 2x week is that beneficial?

b. about staying on too long...what would your theory be about someone thats does blasts while on HRT....so never off of say the 100mg/wk prescription...what would you do then?? take 6-8wks off any "extras" or even drop the test and run a pct....even tho YOU WILL NOT GO BACK TO A NORMAL LEVEL...JUST THE LOW LEVEL...

thanks P

phats


a) Normally if your legs are a weak bodypart it means you are not training then as diligently as you should...doing that twice per week doesnt make things better. One intense leg session is more then enough per week...but that means busting some ass.

b) you can be on an HRT dose indefinitely...but you cannot be on a supraphysiological dose indefinitely...you need you cycle the "on" time just liek everyone else.

P

[Praetorian]

Praetorian i have a few questions please.

First im 6'2'', 210lb.s, early 30's. This is my lifting routine, do you see any problems with it and if so please post up what u think would be better. Im looking to bulk up to 220lbs natural. Protein/300, cals/4000 ED.

Monday/chest,biceps,abs
Tuesday/back,traps,calfs
Wednsday/Off
Thursday/quads,hams
Friday/Deltoids,triceps
Saturday/calfs,forearms


Also my right tricept(the T) is a lot smaller then my left tricept and was wondering what movement would be best to use to make it grow better?


Thanks very much for any help you can give:D

Your routine looks good...no changes needed. If one tricep is smaller than the other you need to do isolateral (one arm ) movements to bring up the weak tricep. Cable reverse pulldowns are a great exercise for this. Try adding 3-4 extra sets for the weak try per tricep workout.

For your diet make sure you are getting 6-7 meals with 50g pro in each one...that would mean 300-350g per day.
P

[dremen]

Your routine looks good...no changes needed. If one tricep is smaller than the other you need to do isolateral (one arm ) movements to bring up the weak tricep. Cable reverse pulldowns are a great exercise for this. Try adding 3-4 extra sets for the weak try per tricep workout.

For your diet make sure you are getting 6-7 meals with 50g pro in each one...that would mean 300-350g per day.
P

Thanks man.

Hey do you know of anything aside from Beano that bodybuilders use to keep gas at bay?

Im taking pro-biotic pills right now(otc)and they have helped get rid of the bloat/gas that i get when bulking, but im looking for something better.

Thanks.

[Praetorian]

Thanks man.

Hey do you know of anything aside from Beano that bodybuilders use to keep gas at bay?

Im taking pro-biotic pills right now(otc)and they have helped get rid of the bloat/gas that i get when bulking, but im looking for something better.

Thanks.

Try a good digestive enzyme. The NOW brand makes a good one called Super Enzymes.
P

[LIVEHARD]

The Paulo Alto product you recommended reset AD

I cant find it anywhere ??

Melontan II any experience with this ??

The species brand of ISO whey any good I use allmax right now

[Praetorian]

The Paulo Alto product you recommended reset AD

I cant find it anywhere ??



Melontan II any experience with this ??




The species brand of ISO whey any good I use allmax right now



http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/palo/reset.html?CJAID=10510634&CJPID=1153233

"works very well if you get it froma reputable company"

"very good protein, mixes and tastes great"

P

[phatkid77]

thanks P...
yeah i need to hit legs much harder, but i have long femur like a terranasaurus for christ sakes...lol... and carry minimal fat there....so hard to gain.... need to up the volume i think..... the bastard are only 26.5"

love the word supraphysiological...haha

phats

[phatkid77]

heres the long boned bastards for your inspection...any hints are welcomed... :)

this is after 6months on HRT I THINK??

http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2141&page=5

[dremen]

thanks P...
yeah i need to hit legs much harder, but i have long femur like a terranasaurus for christ sakes...lol... and carry minimal fat there....so hard to gain.... need to up the volume i think..... the bastard are only 26.5"

love the word supraphysiological...haha

phats


If your looking to get your quads, hams, calfs bigger then you need at least 5-6k in cals per day and 300-400 in protien if your a tall dude like me or if they just won't get bigger.

At the end of each leg workout do isolated movements like leg extentions one leg at a time, same for quads and calfs. If find my legs grow better if i hit them HARD on leg day and then eat eat eat.

I do my squats, decline leg presses, squat machine and then i do quads and hams together. Do one set with quads then one with hams and i continue to hit quads/hams for 20 minutes till they are SUPER pumped and totaly rubber.

All in all leg day kills me and is the longest i spend in the gym each week, about 1.5 hours. I drink protien shake during leg workouts as well cause im in there so long.

[phatkid77]

thanks..im not super tall...but at 5;11" with less than ideal muscle bellies...lol

phats

[Praetorian]

[QUOTE=phatkid77;260786]heres the long boned bastards for your inspection...any hints are welcomed... :)

this is after 6months on HRT I THINK??


Free barbell squats should be the bread and butter of your leg day. You need to warm up fully and get in at least 4 good working sets. warm up to your heaviest weight that you fail at 5-6 reps with...that is your first set. After that drop the weight slightly and go for 7-8 reps, drop again and hit 10 reps, drop once more and go for 12-15 reps. Once done hit the leg press for 3 sets of 8-12 reps. Once finished there do 2-3 sets of leg extensions...not too heavy but higher reps 15-20. Thats it for quads...just remember each working set is done with everything you have...full deep ass to calves reps and not stopping until failure. If you dont throwup the first time you're not going hard enough.
After quads move on to hams...stiff legged deads, leg curls, and Glute ham raises.
You should not eat anything durind this workout..it wont stay down...just drink plenty of water...a decent preworkout meal will supply all the required energy. your leg workout will probably last 1.5 hours or so. You need to lean to love pain...it will become your friend.
P

[phatkid77]

THANKS P....
i gotta buckle down and hammer these fawkers for sure..im always alittle easy on them as per outside sports....i like to be able to walk....lol, fack it... bring on the pain...not sure i have it in me to puke....lol

ive been doing similar in all workouts...droping everyset...
bluenose had me doing hacks with a frog like stance b4... i like the hacks VS legpress..for some reason

i got 7-8mnths to make something happen... :)

phats

[Praetorian]

THANKS P....
i gotta buckle down and hammer these fawkers for sure..im always alittle easy on them as per outside sports....i like to be able to walk....lol, fack it... bring on the pain...not sure i have it in me to puke....lol

ive been doing similar in all workouts...droping everyset...
bluenose had me doing hacks with a frog like stance b4... i like the hacks VS legpress..for some reason

i got 7-8mnths to make something happen... :)

phats

I avoid hacks as it puts alot of stress on the knee..leg presses are better for mass.
P

[phatkid77]

yeah i did notice smoe knee discomfort... out!, presses in...

sorry, trying not to be a S vitamin :)

phats

[Jimdawg]

For the past couple of years I noticed that my right lat appears to be higher, wider and thicker, while my left lat appears to insert lower on my back, therefor making it look smaller and longer. I'm just wondering if doing 4 extra sets on back day to this side will sort out the problem or do you think it is an insertion problem and if so how does one get that sorted out?

[phatkid77]

hey P what do u think of this for the quads...lol
1-20 500mg test
1-6 tren 75mg EOD
1-4 dbol 40mg ED
6-9 abomb 50mg/day
10-14..just test
14-20 tren 75mg EOD,
14-20 winny 25mg ED
reason for 14-20...is a possible vacation to dominican, so harden up a bit

i wanted to try deca, but didnt think i could run tren long after stopping, but i see on page 1 you stated to do tren the week after deca, i presume this is OK??

this would be to add muscle, take 14wks of just test, then at 16wks out devise and start contest prep....possibly

thanks
phats

[dremen]

I avoid hacks as it puts alot of stress on the knee..leg presses are better for mass.
P

Hack squats ****ing suck:beat

[dremen]

Praetorian: I may need to stretch my gear out a lil longer then i thought i would need to and i was wondering what you think about taking prop@100mg every 3 days rather then EOD?

Thanks.

[phatkid77]

Well, had a REALLY good leg workout in!!! Even cursed praetorian on my 3rd set of squats...lol
I was jacked, either 40mg dbol and or the 200mg caffeine pill (first time with both) but felt really good!

[dremen]

Well, had a REALLY good leg workout in!!! Even cursed praetorian on my 3rd set of squats...lol
I was jacked, either 40mg dbol and or the 200mg caffeine pill (first time with both) but felt really good!

Try the dbol at 80mg for a day or 2:)

That's some jacked shit right there dude....lol

[gojimmygo]

Hey P sorry if it's been asked before but what do you think of test only cycles in the off season? I'm not finding deca/eq add all that much benefit(except for my joints but a little water retention from test seems to help this too)and orals kill my guts.Thanx brother.
Jimmy

[alexander]

1.Do you believe in Adrenal Fatigue???

2.Would you recommend supplementing with Dhea? Pregnenolone? adrenal Glandular?

3.Do you think its a myth or it can happen?

Thank you

[Praetorian]

Hey P sorry if it's been asked before but what do you think of test only cycles in the off season? I'm not finding deca/eq add all that much benefit(except for my joints but a little water retention from test seems to help this too)and orals kill my guts.Thanx brother.
Jimmy

Depends on your goals...if you are only looking for some additional size etc its fine...if you are competitibe its not.
P

[Praetorian]

1.Do you believe in Adrenal Fatigue??? YES it is very real...you can thank ephedrine for alot of it!!!!

2.Would you recommend supplementing with Dhea? Pregnenolone? adrenal Glandular? Reset AD ...it has Preg and gland in it...bb.com has it.

3.Do you think its a myth or it can happen? Very real!

Thank you

P

[Praetorian]

For the past couple of years I noticed that my right lat appears to be higher, wider and thicker, while my left lat appears to insert lower on my back, therefor making it look smaller and longer. I'm just wondering if doing 4 extra sets on back day to this side will sort out the problem or do you think it is an insertion problem and if so how does one get that sorted out?

You cannot change the insertion point that is genetic...you can prioritize the weak side to balance as best you can with extra sets, etc.
P

[Praetorian]

hey P what do u think of this for the quads...lol
1-20 500mg test
1-6 tren 75mg EOD
1-4 dbol 40mg ED
6-9 abomb 50mg/day
10-14..just test
14-20 tren 75mg EOD,
14-20 winny 25mg ED
reason for 14-20...is a possible vacation to dominican, so harden up a bit

i wanted to try deca, but didnt think i could run tren long after stopping, but i see on page 1 you stated to do tren the week after deca, i presume this is OK??

this would be to add muscle, take 14wks of just test, then at 16wks out devise and start contest prep....possibly

thanks
phats

Whats your cycle history?
P

[Praetorian]

Praetorian: I may need to stretch my gear out a lil longer then i thought i would need to and i was wondering what you think about taking prop@100mg every 3 days rather then EOD?

Thanks.

Creates uneven blood levels...so you may not feel the best etc..but if you must.
P

[phatkid77]

hey P, i had a layoff after the BB show i did in 2003, quit training, crashed...long ass cycle i never recovered from im thinking....thus HRT now...or im betting i was always low
the doozy for the show was
wk 18-10 800mg of enanthate
wk 18-12 A-50's (100mg/day for 1st week, then 75, then 50 )
wk 13-1 400mg equipoise
wk 10-1 700mg prop, dropping dose for the last 4 wks
wk 12-6 75mg fina EOD
wk 10-1 ~300mg/ winny/wk
and 300 mg/wk masteron
pretty sure i did sust EOD for bulking...young and stupid...looked like hell, diet was subpar...ect ect...

since on HRT of 150wk, i just ended my first blast(since 6yr lay off) i did....
300mg test E for 12wks
500mg EQ for 12
tren at 50mg EOD for 8
tried winny + 25mg ED 6wks after (loved)
VAR 40-60mg for 6wks (could do without back and calf cramps)
basically just wanted to try a couple bursts of compounds i hadnt used to see if i would use for competition in future or such.....

phats

[nitrous]

hey Praetorian what do you think of throwing in no-xplode or superpump 250 to throw in for some extra drive during PCT to help you continue lifting heavy?

[Praetorian]

hey P, i had a layoff after the BB show i did in 2003, quit training, crashed...long ass cycle i never recovered from im thinking....thus HRT now...or im betting i was always low
the doozy for the show was
wk 18-10 800mg of enanthate
wk 18-12 A-50's (100mg/day for 1st week, then 75, then 50 )
wk 13-1 400mg equipoise
wk 10-1 700mg prop, dropping dose for the last 4 wks
wk 12-6 75mg fina EOD
wk 10-1 ~300mg/ winny/wk
and 300 mg/wk masteron
pretty sure i did sust EOD for bulking...young and stupid...looked like hell, diet was subpar...ect ect...

since on HRT of 150wk, i just ended my first blast(since 6yr lay off) i did....
300mg test E for 12wks
500mg EQ for 12
tren at 50mg EOD for 8
tried winny + 25mg ED 6wks after (loved)
VAR 40-60mg for 6wks (could do without back and calf cramps)
basically just wanted to try a couple bursts of compounds i hadnt used to see if i would use for competition in future or such.....

phats

Ok first off the cycle for the show was way overkill and not run correctly...i wont really get in to that right now because its over so let smove on.
To gain mass offseason its not about tonnes of gear or exotic stacks etc that is a complete newbie belief. A 16 week cycle with 4 compounds is all you need.
week 1-8 test cyp 200-250mg EOD
week 1-8 EQ/deca 150-200mg EOD
week 9-16 test enanthate 200-250mg EOD
week 9-16 tren acetate 75-100mg EOD

Orals not necessary, AI only if you have gyno issues, no dieting compounds at the end...

P

[Praetorian]

hey Praetorian what do you think of throwing in no-xplode or superpump 250 to throw in for some extra drive during PCT to help you continue lifting heavy?

Absolutely NOT. PCT is a time to recover, reduce volume and intensity, limit cortisol output as much as possible.
P

[nitrous]

Absolutely NOT. PCT is a time to recover, reduce volume and intensity, limit cortisol output as much as possible.
P

i am planning on reducing volume and cutting out any forced reps... but as far as i know i should still be lifting heavy on the low volume reps i am doing..

ya you are still right i see they have Caffeine in them which would raise cortisol.. ah well no new supps for me lol

Thanks Praetorian

[Vitamin S]

Hey P,

about GH. i keep hearing as i have not tried it yet that people retain water from it esp higher doses, sore joints and swelling in face and hands etc.

how do the pros deal with it or even national level bbers? i mean they come in dry as a leaf etc at the olympia some of these guys they must be on GH and if that was the case why are they not bloated from water and all puffy.

is it dose dependetn, genetics or slowly ramping up and down ???

thanks.

[phatkid77]

thanks P... yeah, brutal cycle...way too much, counter productive i think..lol

ive tried cyp 2x, and i swear... i didnt feel anything...2 different brands too.. may try a 3rd then...lol
i take .25mg ADEX EOD, as my estrogen is high on HRT.....

ps... my legs are still killing from monday PRAETORIAN inspired session!

phats

[nisser]

I know drinking on cycle is bad (and have never done it in the past, save a beer or two here) but the only way to avoid it this winter bulker is to wait much longer than I have to before starting.

In short, my bday is gonna overlap with the 4 weeks of dbol in my next cycle and I'm wondering if it's such a terrible thing to get shitfaced for that one night?

[Praetorian]

i am planning on reducing volume and cutting out any forced reps... but as far as i know i should still be lifting heavy on the low volume reps i am doing..

ya you are still right i see they have Caffeine in them which would raise cortisol.. ah well no new supps for me lol

Thanks Praetorian

You still lift heavy yes...but within reason and not to failure while on PCT.
P

[Praetorian]

Hey P,

about GH. i keep hearing as i have not tried it yet that people retain water from it esp higher doses, sore joints and swelling in face and hands etc.

how do the pros deal with it or even national level bbers? i mean they come in dry as a leaf etc at the olympia some of these guys they must be on GH and if that was the case why are they not bloated from water and all puffy.

is it dose dependetn, genetics or slowly ramping up and down ???

thanks.

You wont retain water on 4iu per day or less...above that it is individualistic but i have run 8-10 without much water retention at all. Prior to a show a few weeks out drop th egh to 4iu per and a mild diuretic will take care of anything else. You must ramp up if it is good gh or you will get sore joints...start at 2iu per day and add 1iu each week. While dieting you dont need alot of gh...4iu is fine...you are not building muscle...you are maintaining muscle and burning fat.
P

[Praetorian]

I know drinking on cycle is bad (and have never done it in the past, save a beer or two here) but the only way to avoid it this winter bulker is to wait much longer than I have to before starting.

In short, my bday is gonna overlap with the 4 weeks of dbol in my next cycle and I'm wondering if it's such a terrible thing to get shitfaced for that one night?

A drink or two is ok more than that is uncalled for...it all depends on whats important to you.
P

[phatkid77]

whilst on GH...me and blue were throwing theories around... and i ve seen a few recommend GH for 16wk diet prep....but everything u read online is must be ran 6mnths or more to see results??
im guessing this is in regards to muscle building? cause i would think GH for whaqt u stated... muscle preservation a nd fatloss should be immediate?

phats

[Praetorian]

thanks P... yeah, brutal cycle...way too much, counter productive i think..lol

ive tried cyp 2x, and i swear... i didnt feel anything...2 different brands too.. may try a 3rd then...lol
i take .25mg ADEX EOD, as my estrogen is high on HRT.....

ps... my legs are still killing from monday PRAETORIAN inspired session!

phats

An HRT dosage will produce very little estrogen. Unless you are seeing side effects ie gyno there is no need for AI.
P

[Praetorian]

whilst on GH...me and blue were throwing theories around... and i ve seen a few recommend GH for 16wk diet prep....but everything u read online is must be ran 6mnths or more to see results??
im guessing this is in regards to muscle building? cause i would think GH for whaqt u stated... muscle preservation a nd fatloss should be immediate?

phats

Bingo!
P

[phatkid77]

well, ive had alittle lump under one nipple for years...cause...unknown...but my blood tests shown my estrogen to triple on HRT....so i pushed for a script for ADEX :)

phats

[phatkid77]

frig... i "might" be able to try and swing the regime....lol

phats

edit..500iu...maybe not!! lol fack

[nitrous]

You still lift heavy yes...but within reason and not to failure while on PCT.
P

hmm not even to failure. good to know, thank you

[Praetorian]

hmm not even to failure. good to know, thank you

As i said before PCT is a time for recovery. Your cortisol levels are high, you have little anabolic support, and your body basically needs a break (CNS). This is NOT the time to be pushing heavy weights to failure...you are NOT building muscle!

PCT=recovery
ON cycle = growth
Dieting =maintaining muscle-dropping fat

As you can see the only growth taking place is while on cycle...thats the time to go hard, heavy and to failure.
P

[nitrous]

As i said before PCT is a time for recovery. Your cortisol levels are high, you have little anabolic support, and your body basically needs a break (CNS). This is NOT the time to be pushing heavy weights to failure...you are NOT building muscle!

PCT=recovery
ON cycle = growth
Dieting =maintaining muscle-dropping fat

As you can see the only growth taking place is while on cycle...thats the time to go hard, heavy and to failure.
P

lets assume i am on test e.. you start pct 2 weeks after your last shot.. so between your last shot and when you start PCT (the 2 week period) do you continue to lift to failure? i have been.. even put up a new record in one of my lifts and its pretty late now as i'm starting my PCT tuesday but it would be good to know for next time

[nisser]

A drink or two is ok more than that is uncalled for...it all depends on whats important to you.
P

Enjoying life is important to me. Having said that, would getting absolutely trashed for 1 night give me major liver problems (ex. Jaundice) or is that something I would get from chronic liver abuse?

[Praetorian]

lets assume i am on test e.. you start pct 2 weeks after your last shot.. so between your last shot and when you start PCT (the 2 week period) do you continue to lift to failure? i have been.. even put up a new record in one of my lifts and its pretty late now as i'm starting my PCT tuesday but it would be good to know for next time

You should start HCG one week after your last shot of long ester test. Yes you can still lift heavy during this time as you have plenty of test in your system.
P

[Praetorian]

Enjoying life is important to me. Having said that, would getting absolutely trashed for 1 night give me major liver problems (ex. Jaundice) or is that something I would get from chronic liver abuse?

One night shouldnt...jaundice is usually chronic.
P

[nitrous]

You should start HCG one week after your last shot of long ester test. Yes you can still lift heavy during this time as you have plenty of test in your system.
P

HCG? and only run it for a week?