Q&A with Praetorian - National Level Competitor

[Praetorian]

Could I get you to elaborate on why glutamine is useless? Thanks!

Glutamine is useful for intenstinal tract support immune support. Any anabolic activity you have heard of is a result of studies performed with glutamine administered via IV NOT orally. Almost all glutamine is destroyed or used up in the gut and never makes it to the bloodstream.
P

[Praetorian]

if one has had issues with anxiety in the past, would clen be way too much to handle? or maybe a blend like helios or lipo ex or something? ephedrine makes me look and feel like shit, i dont react well to it and im looking for a boost in terms of fat burning. i know how to eat and train, i just want some help.

Clen is a beta 2 specific agonist...ephedrine (lipo ex) and helios (clen +yohimbe)
contain ingredients that are not strickly beta 2 agonists which means they have stimulant effects...anxiety being one of them. Out of all those choices clen would be your best bet. Start with a low dose and slowly increase it every two weeks. Once you get past the first week you should be fine. You can use gaba to circumvent most sides the first week and thereafter if required.
P

[Vitamin S]

P,

how true is the below answer given to another user considering using Clen during pct for muscle retention?



I usually use a moderate dose of clen during my PCT. Without going into a super long explanation, cortisone receptors are created in large numbers during a steroid cycle but cortisone itself is kept at bay by the steroids. So when you stop using the steroids then the cortisone goes nuts in your body, and that leads to a huge increase in cortisol. Cortisol is a stress hormone that can cause muscle breakdown and stop glycogen from being used by the muscle cells.

The point is this, clenbuterol blocks these abundant cortisone receptors and that leads to a lesser amount of cortisol in the body. You don't need to run a full on cycle of clen to get this benefit either. A moderate dose of 40-60mcg for 6 or all the way up to 12 weeks after a cycle can really help the body get back to normal without putting on extra fat or losing your newly gained muscle mass.

[Jimdawg]

I remember reading that during PCT and time off in between regular cycles, that we shouldn't train to failure. Should I be training with higher rep ranges 12-15 and more isolated movements if I normally do a lot of heavy 6-10 rep compound movements?

[Praetorian]

P,

how true is the below answer given to another user considering using Clen during pct for muscle retention?



I usually use a moderate dose of clen during my PCT. Without going into a super long explanation, cortisone receptors are created in large numbers during a steroid cycle but cortisone itself is kept at bay by the steroids. So when you stop using the steroids then the cortisone goes nuts in your body, and that leads to a huge increase in cortisol. Cortisol is a stress hormone that can cause muscle breakdown and stop glycogen from being used by the muscle cells.

The point is this, clenbuterol blocks these abundant cortisone receptors and that leads to a lesser amount of cortisol in the body. You don't need to run a full on cycle of clen to get this benefit either. A moderate dose of 40-60mcg for 6 or all the way up to 12 weeks after a cycle can really help the body get back to normal without putting on extra fat or losing your newly gained muscle mass.

The idea of using clen for PCT is valid due to its anti-catabolic properties however the reasoning behind this argument stated in the post is not entirely correct. Clenbuterol is used during PCT to combat higher cortisol levels yes...but it does not block cortisol or its receptors. To do this would require a drug like Cytadren which is used for controlling excess cortisol levels in pateints with Cushings disease. Also cortisol doesnt "go nuts" in your body....removing aas just shifts the balance from anabolic to catabolic because cortisol is no longer being "overpowered" lets say by the anabolic effect. Clenbuterol supposedly reduces the rate of protein reduction within the cell thus leaving a higher nitrogen balance and thus an anticatabolic effect....60mcg ED is normally suffiicient for this. Also the idea that you will put on fat because of higher cortisol levels is not entirely true either...it is very dependant on your diet. If you keep your diet tight and run correct PCT you will not put on fat.
P

[Praetorian]

I remember reading that during PCT and time off in between regular cycles, that we shouldn't train to failure. Should I be training with higher rep ranges 12-15 and more isolated movements if I normally do a lot of heavy 6-10 rep compound movements?

Yes during PCT you should refrain from training to failure but you still want to keep the weight relatively heavy and use compound movements. Reducing the weights and moving to higher reps and isolation movements will result in muscle loss. Train heavy but just avoid the danger zone ie 1-3 rep range....keep the reps 6-10 and youll be fine.
P

[Vitamin S]

so P

taking 50mcg clen for pct purposes would u take it at breakfast or use it like a preworkout stimulant?

[natenator]

so P

taking 50mcg clen for pct purposes would u take it at breakfast or use it like a preworkout stimulant?
Clen is not a stimulant

[Praetorian]

so P

taking 50mcg clen for pct purposes would u take it at breakfast or use it like a preworkout stimulant?

Take it at breakfast...you can split it up say 25 morning and 25 afternoon.
Clen is not a stimulant so taking it preworkout is will not give you stimulant like effects...
P

[Talo]

I always thought that Clen was a stim . I'm sure others did too.

Never taken it , but thanks for the clarrity .

I also see it's a lot healthier / safer than taking an ECA stack , true ?

[Praetorian]

I always thought that Clen was a stim . I'm sure others did too.

Never taken it , but thanks for the clarrity .

I also see it's a lot healthier / safer than taking an ECA stack , true ?

Yes like you many think it is a stimulant based on the misinformation spread by the Anabolic Review and similar publications as well as the internet...which by the way are full of incorrect information and assumptions. Clen is a beta 2 agonist thus it doesnt directly affect the same organs that stimulants such as Ephedra and caffiene would. Clen lowers blood pressure it does not raise blood pressure...the increase in heart rate that you feel is the body trying to normalize from the lowered blood pressure.
Yes it is much safer than ECA not to mention MUCH more effective at fat burning.
P

[drdnj]

P,
In my last few days of PCT.....As per your advice I lowered intensity on my workouts. Now that I am on the upswing should I train to failure again? (BTW-I will be consulting your services again for lean mass gain in the new year).

Just wondering how I should be training before I get into the full lean mass gain period.

D

[Praetorian]

P,
In my last few days of PCT.....As per your advice I lowered intensity on my workouts. Now that I am on the upswing should I train to failure again? (BTW-I will be consulting your services again for lean mass gain in the new year).

Just wondering how I should be training before I get into the full lean mass gain period.

D

Have you had blood work done after PCT? If you are feeling good...mood, motivation, morning wood etc...that usually is a sign of recovery....however blood work is the confirmation. If you are recovered yes you can increase intensity and push to failure.
P

[BAM]

I'm not sure if this question has already been answered but here goes..

I have read that an AI is recommended during hcg therapy. Is Proviron a suitable candidate as a AI in this situation, or would the androgenic properties of proviron retard the effect of hcg?

[Praetorian]

I'm not sure if this question has already been answered but here goes..

I have read that an AI is recommended during hcg therapy. Is Proviron a suitable candidate as a AI in this situation, or would the androgenic properties of proviron retard the effect of hcg?

Proviron is not a good choice for PCT. One it is no where near as effective as third generation AI's such as aromasin or femara. Two the androgenic aspect will delay recovery. There really is no good reason to use Proviron these days....its been replaced by much better products.
P

[BAM]

Proviron is not a good choice for PCT. One it is no where near as effective as third generation AI's such as aromasin or femara. Two the androgenic aspect will delay recovery. There really is no good reason to use Proviron these days....its been replaced by much better products.
P

To clarify, I am speaking about using hcg (with proviron as an AI) prior to clomid therapy and ceasing proviron once the clomid therapy has started. Does his scenario make any difference?

[Praetorian]

To clarify, I am speaking about using hcg (with proviron as an AI) prior to clomid therapy and ceasing proviron once the clomid therapy has started. Does his scenario make any difference?

I understand...again it is weaker than true AI's and the androgen component will delay recovery....use aromasin or femara...youll be better off.
P

[Vitamin S]

P,

when using clen what is the best thing to take to avoid cramps and involuntary contractions? i will be using 25mcg twice per day alongside my PCT therapy?

i heard quinne is very helpfull, please advise?

thanks you.

[Praetorian]

P,

when using clen what is the best thing to take to avoid cramps and involuntary contractions? i will be using 25mcg twice per day alongside my PCT therapy?

i heard quinne is very helpfull, please advise?

thanks you.

Quinine sulfate is a prescription medication used to combat nightly leg cramps...yes it would work but it doesnt really address the root cause and its not something you want to take over long period of time. Quinine is normally used th elast few days before a contest when a BB is using something like lasix as a diuretic.
Clen does cause a loss of taurine in the body which can lead to cramping as well it does have somewhat of a diuretic effect which can lead to sodium and water loss.
There are a number of things you can do...make sure you drink enough water, supplement with taurine, get some sugar free tonic water which is a natural source of quinine.
P

[gregdoucette]

Quinine its called its used to treat nocturnal leg cramps, your doctoc can prescribe it for you. Its even legal to use in drug tested shows.

[buildinthaskinnys]

Is there an echo in here?

[buildinthaskinnys]

Ok so with my piss poor genetics for building muscle and strength and coupled with an extemely fast metabolism, I am eating just 3 meals a day of about 1000 calories per meal macros like this 100-120 grams carbs 60-80 grams protein and 20-30 grams fat, (I should note, that I do not count pre/post workout supplements) so far my strength is up and I feel like Im growing (like I can actually feel that way) The reason I feel that this is best for me, is that I have essentially slowed down my metabolism, my theory is that my body is using more energy to digest and process the food than to burn it, kind of the reverse of eating 6-8 small meals to speed up the metabolism, thoughts on this?

[Praetorian]

Ok so with my piss poor genetics for building muscle and strength and coupled with an extemely fast metabolism, I am eating just 3 meals a day of about 1000 calories per meal macros like this 100-120 grams carbs 60-80 grams protein and 20-30 grams fat, (I should note, that I do not count pre/post workout supplements) so far my strength is up and I feel like Im growing (like I can actually feel that way) The reason I feel that this is best for me, is that I have essentially slowed down my metabolism, my theory is that my body is using more energy to digest and process the food than to burn it, kind of the reverse of eating 6-8 small meals to speed up the metabolism, thoughts on this?

Your theory may sound logical but in reality the body can only digest a certain amount of food efficiently in a specific time frame. You may gain weight over time but it most likely will be predominantly fat not muscle and I dont believe that is what you are striving for. The body to be anabolic pefers to have nutrients when it needs them....thus a constant supply of amino acids for building and a constant suppy of energy for its metobolic requirements.
By trying to slow down your metabolism you are also slowing down protein synthesis and most likely dropping hormone levels. I know you may think you have bad genetics for building muscle but these same genetics will keep you very lean while at the same time you can eat alot of what most others cannot. I had the same issue when I was young...I always had a six pack of abs but I could eat pizza and ice cream daily. When I really started to gain weight was when I organized my eating habits and had regular meals every few hours....I put on muscle yet stayed very lean. You may gain muscle slowly but it will be quality while at the same time you dont have to worry much about getting fat.
P

[JacktheThriller]

hey P,

I recently made a solid strength gain of 60 pds in the squat
what do u estimate ive added in mussle tissue to achieve this?

Basically how much more muscle does it take to lift 60 pds more

[Praetorian]

hey P,

I recently made a solid strength gain of 60 pds in the squat
what do u estimate ive added in mussle tissue to achieve this?

Basically how much more muscle does it take to lift 60 pds more

Thats difficult to say...Ive helped guys with their technique and they have added 50lbs in a single training session. The reason being you may have significant power but if you are not able to channel it correctly it will be difficult to hit optimal poundages. On the other hand if your technique is good and the increase has been slowly over time then I would say yes you probably have gained some muscle...the actual amount is very difficult to say because it most likely would be spread around such as glutes, hams, quads, back etc....not just quads. You would also need to take fibre type into consideration as everyone has a different ratio. As long as your strength is increasing over time...than i think you can safely say you are progressing muscular wise.
P

[JacktheThriller]

ok lol thanks

Another question

When your dieting do u change ur calorie intake weekly due to losses in bodyweight?

[nii]

Ive helped guys with their technique and they have added 50lbs in a single training session.
P

I never understood when pp say this. When someone doesnt have proper form, its usually because they are compensating with other muscles, which makes them think they can life more then they actually can. As soon as you do a press or life correctly, you isolate the primary muscle more which usually leads to a decrease in weight, but an increase in muscle accuracy. A typical example is bi's, when curling, pp compensate by swinging their body or lack of ROM, once you incorporate proper form and proper ROM, you dont NEED as much weight to stimulate said muscle, so the weight you use would actually go DOWN instead of up.

I can understand when PLers say that, because they just care about moving weight efficiently, but BBers care about hitting a muscle group efficiently.

Does what i say make sense? Or am i misunderstanding something.

[Praetorian]

ok lol thanks

Another question

When your dieting do u change ur calorie intake weekly due to losses in bodyweight?

Changes to the diet are usually made only after other routes have been exhausted...ie cardio, fat burning aids T3, Clen etc You want to make dietary changes minimally as there is little room to go once you start to lower calories.
Cardio is ramped up slowly the same as T3, Clen etc this all will allow you to continually drop fat and not allow the body to fully adapt. Usually around the 4-6 week out point is where I would start adjusting diet...depending on the clients condition.
P

[buildinthaskinnys]

Your theory may sound logical but in reality the body can only digest a certain amount of food efficiently in a specific time frame. You may gain weight over time but it most likely will be predominantly fat not muscle and I dont believe that is what you are striving for. The body to be anabolic pefers to have nutrients when it needs them....thus a constant supply of amino acids for building and a constant suppy of energy for its metobolic requirements.
By trying to slow down your metabolism you are also slowing down protein synthesis and most likely dropping hormone levels. I know you may think you have bad genetics for building muscle but these same genetics will keep you very lean while at the same time you can eat alot of what most others cannot. I had the same issue when I was young...I always had a six pack of abs but I could eat pizza and ice cream daily. When I really started to gain weight was when I organized my eating habits and had regular meals every few hours....I put on muscle yet stayed very lean. You may gain muscle slowly but it will be quality while at the same time you dont have to worry much about getting fat.
P

Ok, but then how can bodybuilders twice my size in muscle but same in relative height eat 6-8 meals between 800-1000 calories, such as Ronnie Coleman? Clearly their digestive tract is not larger than mine naturally, but they are eating meals as large as I am, but many times per day, How are they digesting this amount of food in a much shorter time and using it to boot?

[Praetorian]

I never understood when pp say this. When someone doesnt have proper form, its usually because they are compensating with other muscles, which makes them think they can life more then they actually can. As soon as you do a press or life correctly, you isolate the primary muscle more which usually leads to a decrease in weight, but an increase in muscle accuracy. A typical example is bi's, when curling, pp compensate by swinging their body or lack of ROM, once you incorporate proper form and proper ROM, you dont NEED as much weight to stimulate said muscle, so the weight you use would actually go DOWN instead of up.

I can understand when PLers say that, because they just care about moving weight efficiently, but BBers care about hitting a muscle group efficiently.

Does what i say make sense? Or am i misunderstanding something.

The logic behind curling makes sense yes mostly because it is not much of a compound movement so there really in only one plane of motion and one large muscle involved. However when you are talking compound movements like the bench or squat technique plays a huge role on how much weight is used and whether or not it is directed at the muscles correctly. Lets take the bench for example...most guys with no formal lifting education will just lie down on the bench, flat back, legs flailing around, drop the bar down elbows flared and push up. Doing this basically puts most of the emphasis on the front delts with very little on the pecs. It also rotates the shoulder joint dramatically which often leads to rotator cuff injuries etc. If the lifter corrected his technique you would find he has a large increase in power basically because he now has the ability to use the chest, back, and triceps in a much more effective manner. Correct technique allows you do use the entire muscular chain efficiently and will thus lead to strength increases...not to mention muscular increase due to the fact that you are actually now training the chest much more effectively then before.
P

[Praetorian]

Ok, but then how can bodybuilders twice my size in muscle but same in relative height eat 6-8 meals between 800-1000 calories, such as Ronnie Coleman? Clearly their digestive tract is not larger than mine naturally, but they are eating meals as large as I am, but many times per day, How are they digesting this amount of food in a much shorter time and using it to boot?

Because they carry more muscle they require more calories just to maintain there weight not to mention grow. But even large BB's ie Dorian Yates wasnt eating 8000cal daily...his meals were spread evenly thru the day and were in the range of 600-800 calories. Im not saying you cannot digest 1000 calories in a sitting which you no doubt can...but if your body doesnt require this much for maintaining and growing where is the excess going to go? Instead of over eating at each meal and having excess each time...give the body what is necessary to grow and try to keep that constant.
P

[Praetorian]

Hey P, just wondering if I could get you to have a peak at this thread VVV and give your take?

http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13269&page=2

As mentioned in my last post (in the thread).. do you think 1250iu's eod would suffice for the 16 days?

Thanks!

You have to remember the study was done on subjects some of whom were hypogonadal from using aas constantly for years. So there are many variables at play when you are considering dosage...length of cycle, type of aas used, age of subject, number of cycles subject has done, etc
I usually recommend 1500-2000iu EOD for two weeks...myself I require more to recovery quickly. If you read the package insert for HCG produced domestically in Canada the manufacturer recommends 4000-6000iu three times weekly for 5-6 weeks to correct hypogonadism So you see a pretty wide spectrum here. You can try say 1500 run PCT then have blood work done to check your free test levels. If you are not recovered after that you will know you require more. Ive had many clients run 2500 quite successfully as well.
P

[buildinthaskinnys]

Because they carry more muscle they require more calories just to maintain there weight not to mention grow. But even large BB's ie Dorian Yates wasnt eating 8000cal daily...his meals were spread evenly thru the day and were in the range of 600-800 calories. Im not saying you cannot digest 1000 calories in a sitting which you no doubt can...but if your body doesnt require this much for maintaining and growing where is the excess going to go? Instead of over eating at each meal and having excess each time...give the body what is necessary to grow and try to keep that constant.
P

Thanks!

[Benny62]

Hello P,

I've been off scince the middle of August. I ran a mixed mash cycle for around 7 months and got great results. My pct was human grade nolva, clomid for around 40 days. i have never experienced body acne like this before aand it isn't going away. i did run low doses of tren ace, with vat and t3. and tappered off as well. i went to the the doc and got some meds but its not helping. I'm pretty sure i'm back producing my own hormones because i get morning wood and balls are full and dropped. what gives though my fat% is climbing crazy and my skin is like a teenagers and i'm 34. should i ask the doc for hormone therapy? or will this balance and pass?

[Praetorian]

Hello P,

I've been off scince the middle of August. I ran a mixed mash cycle for around 7 months and got great results. My pct was human grade nolva, clomid for around 40 days. i have never experienced body acne like this before aand it isn't going away. i did run low doses of tren ace, with vat and t3. and tappered off as well. i went to the the doc and got some meds but its not helping. I'm pretty sure i'm back producing my own hormones because i get morning wood and balls are full and dropped. what gives though my fat% is climbing crazy and my skin is like a teenagers and i'm 34. should i ask the doc for hormone therapy? or will this balance and pass?

For the body acne I would suggest the Canadian generic version of Augmentin(APO-AMOXI CLAV 500-125mg, AMOX TR/POTASSIUM CLAVULANATE)...1000mg daily should clear up your skin within a week or so and wont affect protein synthesis. Also change your sheets regularily, shower twice daily, B5 4000mg twice daily, a tanning once per week can also help.
As for the the weight gain...how is your diet, have you had blood work done? I would suggest blood work one to confirm you are recovered (Free Test) and two to check thyroid levels(free T3 and T4 not just TSH)

P

[nii]

While on the subject. Do certain antibiotics disrupt protein synthesis? I was recently prescribed Minocycline (100mg ED)for my acne which is a bacteriostatic antibiotic, and from what i read interferes with bacterial protein production.

Wiki: "Bacteriostatic antibiotics inhibit growth and reproduction of bacteria without killing them; killing is done by bactericidal agents."

I'm guessing it isnt advised to run a small test only cycle concurrently?

[rockgym]

hey prae

i am running test c 600mg ew wks 1-12 and anadrol 100mg ed wks 8-12.
next week will be week 9 for me. i plan on getting a blood test for my total testosterone level, on day 5 of week 9, the day after i pin.

do you know how anadrol will effect my total testosterone on the blood test? will it raise it or lower it?

[Praetorian]

While on the subject. Do certain antibiotics disrupt protein synthesis? I was recently prescribed Minocycline (100mg ED)for my acne which is a bacteriostatic antibiotic, and from what i read interferes with bacterial protein production.

Wiki: "Bacteriostatic antibiotics inhibit growth and reproduction of bacteria without killing them; killing is done by bactericidal agents."

I'm guessing it isnt advised to run a small test only cycle concurrently?

Yes some antibiotics interfere with protein synthesis...tetracycline being one of them...exactly how much is debatable but if you can find something that doesnt or does minimally than I would choose that. I am not very familiar with minocycline but I would imagine it would be similar to tetracycline...I owudl have to look it up.
P

[Praetorian]

hey prae

i am running test c 600mg ew wks 1-12 and anadrol 100mg ed wks 8-12.
next week will be week 9 for me. i plan on getting a blood test for my total testosterone level, on day 5 of week 9, the day after i pin.

do you know how anadrol will effect my total testosterone on the blood test? will it raise it or lower it?

Being that you are on cycle your free test levels will be abnormally high...the anadrol will suppress endogenous test levels but they are most likely already suppressed due to the cyp. Why are you doing a blood test to check test levels during a cycle? Also you may want to stop teh anadrol a little earlier to allow the body to adjust prior to coming off and PCT.
P

[rockgym]

Being that you are on cycle your free test levels will be abnormally high...the anadrol will suppress endogenous test levels but they are most likely already suppressed due to the cyp. Why are you doing a blood test to check test levels during a cycle? Also you may want to stop teh anadrol a little earlier to allow the body to adjust prior to coming off and PCT.
P

my first cycle i was running test e 500mg ew. total test level was 1200

my 2nd cycle now my total test level came back at 1150. got that test at week 5. i switched sources of test at end of week 5 and am going to get blood test done at end of week 9, but im running anadrol also.

these free test levels are not abnormally high are they??

i am getting my blood test on cycle because its the only way i can tell if my gear is somewhat legit. i dont know any labs to get by gear checked at.

i was told by a couple of people that when running 600mg of test a wk my total test level should easily be in the 3000s.

what pct would you reccommend running? there are different views on pct nowadays. i have clomid,nolva,arimidex, hcg on hand.

[Praetorian]

my first cycle i was running test e 500mg ew. total test level was 1200

my 2nd cycle now my total test level came back at 1150. got that test at week 5. i switched sources of test at end of week 5 and am going to get blood test done at end of week 9, but im running anadrol also.

these free test levels are not abnormally high are they??

i am getting my blood test on cycle because its the only way i can tell if my gear is somewhat legit. i dont know any labs to get by gear checked at.

i was told by a couple of people that when running 600mg of test a wk my total test level should easily be in the 3000s.

what pct would you reccommend running? there are different views on pct nowadays. i have clomid,nolva,arimidex, hcg on hand.

Depending on the lab the range for total test is approx 250-1200....so you would be near the upper most part. I am not sure how conclusive this is for determining quality of gear...the anadrol should not affectthe total value that significantly. As for PCT I would recommend starting the hcg one week after your last test shot. 2000iu EOD for two weeks along with .5mg arimidex ED. Then run the clomid at 50mg twice daily along wth arimidex .5 mg EOD and you can add 10mg nolvadex twice daily as well if you like...run that for two weeks.
P

[rockgym]

Depending on the lab the range for total test is approx 250-1200....so you would be near the upper most part. I am not sure how conclusive this is for determining quality of gear...the anadrol should not affectthe total value that significantly. As for PCT I would recommend starting the hcg one week after your last test shot. 2000iu EOD for two weeks along with .5mg arimidex ED. Then run the clomid at 50mg twice daily along wth arimidex .5 mg EOD and you can add 10mg nolvadex twice daily as well if you like...run that for two weeks.
P

im lost bro, how is the range for total test 250-1200 when on testosterone??
before i ever jumped on a cycle, at the age of 24 my total test level was 600. isnt 1200 low when taking testosterone??

do you mind explaining to me why you think taking hcg,arimidex,nolva and clomid is the way to go for my pct? i am not questioning you, not at all. and i know there is no right answer when it comes to pct, but i just dont hear much about taking all 4 of these compounds for pct.

also i was wondering if you can check my diet. i havnt been growing much. and i think my training is good, maybe its my diet.

this is a non workout day

8am 8oz steak, 12 oz brown rice (after cooked)

10:30 - 11am 8oz steak, 12 oz brown rice (after cooked)

1:30-2 - 8oz chicken, 12 oz brown rice

4:30-5 8oz chicken w 12 oz brown rice - or 2 or 3 penut butter sandwiches (total 8-12tbsp pb) on ezekiel bread.

7:30-8 - 12 egg whites w 1 or 2 tbsp of macadamia nut oil

11-12 - 50g whey protein w milk or 12 egg whites.

i try and get in 7 meals but doesnt happen all the time. usually on workout days i get 7 in.

i take a multi everyday. i try and throw in some fish oils throughout the day and i try and get some brocolli in w at least 2 of my meals, sometimes just throw it in w my bag of rice.

[Praetorian]

im lost bro, how is the range for total test 250-1200 when on testosterone??
before i ever jumped on a cycle, at the age of 24 my total test level was 600. isnt 1200 low when taking testosterone??

do you mind explaining to me why you think taking hcg,arimidex,nolva and clomid is the way to go for my pct? i am not questioning you, not at all. and i know there is no right answer when it comes to pct, but i just dont hear much about taking all 4 of these compounds for pct.

also i was wondering if you can check my diet. i havnt been growing much. and i think my training is good, maybe its my diet.

this is a non workout day

8am 8oz steak, 12 oz brown rice (after cooked)

10:30 - 11am 8oz steak, 12 oz brown rice (after cooked)

1:30-2 - 8oz chicken, 12 oz brown rice

4:30-5 8oz chicken w 12 oz brown rice - or 2 or 3 penut butter sandwiches (total 8-12tbsp pb) on ezekiel bread.

7:30-8 - 12 egg whites w 1 or 2 tbsp of macadamia nut oil

11-12 - 50g whey protein w milk or 12 egg whites.

i try and get in 7 meals but doesnt happen all the time. usually on workout days i get 7 in.

i take a multi everyday. i try and throw in some fish oils throughout the day and i try and get some brocolli in w at least 2 of my meals, sometimes just throw it in w my bag of rice.


The 250-1200 range is for a normal male NOT on testosterone...being that you are on it is very difficult to say what your levels would be. If lets say your normal range now was 400...then your levels while on have tripled...but as I said I dont think that is a very good way to test whether your gear is good or not...there are just too many variables involved. Your diet actually looks fairly decent....you may want to add some good fats such as olive oil to the rice and chicken meals...do you use a PWO shake? What is your bodyweight now?

As for PCT HCG is required to sensitize the testes to LH prior to using a SERM such as Clomid and/or nolva. Clomid is used to stimulate LH as well as the pituitary...nolva works similarily not quite as good but it does help with HDL levels and it does block the estrogen receptor well. Arimidex or another AI is used in conjunction with HCG to prevent the conversion of testosterone to estrogen...which would delay recovery significantly. The nolvadex isn't absolutely necessary but it wont hurt.
P

[Benny62]

thanks P, do you sugesst clearing up body acne befor neext cycle or does it matter?

[rockgym]

The 250-1200 range is for a normal male NOT on testosterone...being that you are on it is very difficult to say what your levels would be. If lets say your normal range now was 400...then your levels while on have tripled...but as I said I dont think that is a very good way to test whether your gear is good or not...there are just too many variables involved. Your diet actually looks fairly decent....you may want to add some good fats such as olive oil to the rice and chicken meals...do you use a PWO shake? What is your bodyweight now?

As for PCT HCG is required to sensitize the testes to LH prior to using a SERM such as Clomid and/or nolva. Clomid is used to stimulate LH as well as the pituitary...nolva works similarily not quite as good but it does help with HDL levels and it does block the estrogen receptor well. Arimidex or another AI is used in conjunction with HCG to prevent the conversion of testosterone to estrogen...which would delay recovery significantly. The nolvadex isn't absolutely necessary but it wont hurt.
P

oh ok i gotcha now prae.

i primed for this cycle. week 1, while the test c hasnt yet kicked in obviously i started to bulk. started at 200pds and in 2 weeks i grew to 220. i stayed at 220 until just recently at end of week 8 here im now at 230. i think its from the anadrol that i started. i have gotten bigger and gained a good amount of muscle, but the scale still didnt move until i started the anadrol. and i have been eating like this consistantly like its my job.

i take 50g waxy w 5g leucine and 5g creatine mono immedietly pwo, then 30min later 50g whey then a hour after the weigh i eat a high protein and high carb meal w no fats.

good info on the pct, thanks for the help prae

[Benny62]

I definitely need to tighten up my diet, but i wanted to run a mild cycle like test cyp or var in january for 12 weeks but i don't want it to make my body acne worse. it's just the inflamatory kind and isn't scaring thank god. whats your opinion. wait for results of blood test?

[Praetorian]

thanks P, do you sugesst clearing up body acne befor neext cycle or does it matter?

It is a cosmetic issue...I myself would prefer clesr skin as most people would and if you are ever thinking of competing it doesnt look nice.
P

[Praetorian]

oh ok i gotcha now prae.

i primed for this cycle. week 1, while the test c hasnt yet kicked in obviously i started to bulk. started at 200pds and in 2 weeks i grew to 220. i stayed at 220 until just recently at end of week 8 here im now at 230. i think its from the anadrol that i started. i have gotten bigger and gained a good amount of muscle, but the scale still didnt move until i started the anadrol. and i have been eating like this consistantly like its my job.

i take 50g waxy w 5g leucine and 5g creatine mono immedietly pwo, then 30min later 50g whey then a hour after the weigh i eat a high protein and high carb meal w no fats.

good info on the pct, thanks for the help prae

30lbs is a huge increase in BW (15%) so I would say your cycle was very effective...test cyp wil take at least 3-4 weeks prior to becoming effective and most liekly 5-6 before you really feel results. You can take your whey protein with the waxy in your PWO shake...you dont have to wait 30min.
P

[Praetorian]

I definitely need to tighten up my diet, but i wanted to run a mild cycle like test cyp or var in january for 12 weeks but i don't want it to make my body acne worse. it's just the inflamatory kind and isn't scaring thank god. whats your opinion. wait for results of blood test?

The blood work is important as you need to check thyroid levels etc...the acne can be controlled with the above mentioned antibiotic without affecting much else.
P

[#8]

is post workout creatine dosing as essential as pre workout? should one always take creatine with a carb post workout to ensure maximum absorption when stores are depleted or is pre workout sufficient? 60-90 mins before workout is recommended i think.

[Praetorian]

is post workout creatine dosing as essential as pre workout? should one always take creatine with a carb post workout to ensure maximum absorption when stores are depleted or is pre workout sufficient? 60-90 mins before workout is recommended i think.

For creatine monohydrate 5g post workout and 5g in the morning is sufficient. If you follow this protocol pre workout is unnecessary.
P

[Vitamin S]

hey p

For creatine monohydrate 5g post workout and 5g in the morning is sufficient. If you follow this protocol pre workout is unnecessary.

im doing this exactly, but question is do you have to front load i have not just take it like this been about a week so far.

[pcruiser73]

Prae, what is the minimum iu per day of GH one can use and it still be effective for growth along with a test based cycle. Would it be worth it to use say 6iu per day with 1000mg test per week, or do you have to be around the 10iu mark before it makes a difference?

[Praetorian]

hey p

For creatine monohydrate 5g post workout and 5g in the morning is sufficient. If you follow this protocol pre workout is unnecessary.

im doing this exactly, but question is do you have to front load i have not just take it like this been about a week so far.

A front load is unnecessary...thats marketing hype.
P

[Praetorian]

Prae, what is the minimum iu per day of GH one can use and it still be effective for growth along with a test based cycle. Would it be worth it to use say 6iu per day with 1000mg test per week, or do you have to be around the 10iu mark before it makes a difference?

There are a few variables at work here....some include potency of gh, genetics of the individual, IGF-1 response...etc Another issue is that the liver can only produce a limited amount of IGF-1 mediated via GH and 6iu has been seen to illicit about the maximum IGF...that is if you are talking quality GH such as Humatrope etc. I think 4-6iu if run for a decent period of time ie 4-6 months would definitely make a difference as long as it is quality GH. For lower potency foreign GH you would probably need more.
P

[uphgrn]

Wow! lots of great information. Couple of questions;
>Is diet the main reasons why ASS affect people diferantly, for example some will claim that deca is only used for bulking, however some find they lean out after the intial water/weight gain.
>Us older guys that are on TRT for life, is their anything we should be doing after coming off cycle, when I stop the 12-16 week cycle and then go back to 150 test per week
>What has been your experiance on Tren, especially Tren E, how long before it actually kicked in, how long did you run it, how much did you use, and did the gains remain after stopping.

Again thanks for the great information

[Mastagon]

The most important set...or should I say the set that imparts the most gains is the heaviest and the first. You have the most energy, focus, drive and fuel for this set...thus you want to make it count. What is the point of pyramiding up in weight while at the same time tiring yourself out...once you reach the heaviest set your zonked. Warm up sets are just that...warmups....stimulate blood flow, prepare the body for weight, prepare the mind for weight...do not exhaust yourself but warm up enough to avoid injuries.

Here is my typical bench routine as an example...

warm up...cable crossovers light weight 2 sets 20
warm up straight bar lat pulldowns....2 sets 15
warm up triceps pushdowns light weight 2 sets 15
warm up bench press 135lbs for 12
warm up bench press 225lbs for 10
warm up bench press 315lbs for 8
warm up bench press 405lbs for 6
warm up bench press 455lbs for 3
1st set bench press 495lbs for 6-10 (basically as many as possible to failure)
2nd set bench press 445lbs for as many as possible
3rd set bench press 405lbs for as many as possible

If i am feeling stronger that day...ill do one more warm up after 455 with 495 for a single then go for 545lbs for my first set and drop from there.

P

Once the warmup is done, do you follow the same ascending reps, descending weight pattern for all exercises? Or do you change things up sometimes, or for training other muscle groups, do you advise against using this pattern for X bodypart.

Thanks,

-Mast

[Timbo89]

Hey, quick question about Test. Which do your prefer when dieting, cypionate or enanthenate?

[Praetorian]

Wow! lots of great information. Couple of questions;
>Is diet the main reasons why ASS affect people diferantly, for example some will claim that deca is only used for bulking, however some find they lean out after the intial water/weight gain.
>Us older guys that are on TRT for life, is their anything we should be doing after coming off cycle, when I stop the 12-16 week cycle and then go back to 150 test per week
>What has been your experiance on Tren, especially Tren E, how long before it actually kicked in, how long did you run it, how much did you use, and did the gains remain after stopping.

Again thanks for the great information

The main reason why aas affect people differently is genetics. Some people respond to specific drugs more than others...the same goes for advil, tylenol etc
This is the main difference between most IFBB pros and everyone else....they respond to aas and peptides extremely well.
After coming off a cycle I would still recommend blood work just to make sure all is ok...also a decent liver cleanse helps.
Tren works very well for me...I only use tren acetate because I get much more out of it...more aggression, faster acting etc...the overall effect just appears to be slightly better. I have never gone over 100mg daily and that woudl only be the last week before a contest...normally i would use 75-100mg EOD. Most gains you can retain with proper PCT, training, and nutrition...not all but most.
P

[Praetorian]

Once the warmup is done, do you follow the same ascending reps, descending weight pattern for all exercises? Or do you change things up sometimes, or for training other muscle groups, do you advise against using this pattern for X bodypart.

Thanks,

-Mast

Yes basically I do...except once you finish the first exercise you are warmed up quite well...so I shorten the warmup phase slightly for the next exercise say hammer strenth inclines....I still start lighter but I will ge the heavy stuff in 2-3 warmups instead of say 5. I use this method for all bodyparts. My first set is my heaviest set when I am completely warmed up but still fresh...then i drop from there.
P

[Mastagon]

so you do 2-3 warmups for every major exercise before the working sets. Why so many warmup sets? How does the cooldown time between major exercises warrant that. I realize that the time can vary, but how long do you usually wait between these major exercises? Would the advantage to doing this before every exercise just be injury prevention, or something else?

Thanks,

-Mast

[Praetorian]

so you do 2-3 warmups for every major exercise before the working sets. Why so many warmup sets? How does the cooldown time between major exercises warrant that. I realize that the time can vary, but how long do you usually wait between these major exercises? Would the advantage to doing this before every exercise just be injury prevention, or something else?

Thanks,

-Mast

Lets say I've finished bench press and have moved on to incline hammer...if my heaviest set will be 5 plates per side...ill do one warm up with 3 per side, then one warm up with 4 per side...then my first set with 5 per side, then drop to 4 for a set and 3.5 or 3 for a set.
You cannot jump right into your first heavy set...the movement is slightly different and you can still get injured. Between exercises usually the time it takes to set up the next piece of equipment.
P

[Mastagon]

Alright. I think I get it. I like this style, so I'll see where it can take me. Thanks.

[MMASTAR]

what do you think of shooting test e sub q??

[Vitamin S]

P,

whats your take on digestive enzymes? i was planning on taking them with only my solid meals, as the shakes these days are pretty much pre-digested and easy to assimilate. would this take away from the body natural enzymes when not taking them? i would probably only take them when on cycle when taking in greater amount of protein/fats?

thanks.

[Praetorian]

what do you think of shooting test e sub q??

AAS were designed to be shot IM not subq. Shooting subq will not give you the same absorption as IM...there is not one manufacturer of Pharm aas that on the package insert says shoot subq. Just keep it simple and follow the instructions.
P

[Praetorian]

P,

whats your take on digestive enzymes? i was planning on taking them with only my solid meals, as the shakes these days are pretty much pre-digested and easy to assimilate. would this take away from the body natural enzymes when not taking them? i would probably only take them when on cycle when taking in greater amount of protein/fats?

thanks.

If you are having digestive issues then yes I would recommend them. If not then I dont think they would be all that beneficial. Thus they wouldnt take away from the bodies natural digestive process being that you would only take them if you had issues.
P

[uphgrn]

What would you suggest for a chest workout for someone who cannot get the correct movement for a bench-press? Because of injuries and loss of movement I cannot get the correct arch anymore to do a correct bench and I find my shoulders are now working more than my chest and now my shoulders are getting to big and I'm starting to have some issues with rotator pain. I even find that cables are starting to bother my shoulders more and I do try to have the correct movement with arms bent and concentrating on the pec. Thanks.

[waderow]

AAS were designed to be shot IM not subq. Shooting subq will not give you the same absorption as IM...there is not one manufacturer of Pharm aas that on the package insert says shoot subq. Just keep it simple and follow the instructions.
P

the old school also used to do pyramid cycles and spot injections for growth.... Sub Q works just fine.

============================


STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED
WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE
INJECTIONS

M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang
Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University,
Hamilton, ON, Canada

Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen replacement has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous
(SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however, its physiological effects are unclear.

We therefore investigated the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using
SC therapy.

Patients and methods: Between May and September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving 10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism. Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for 41 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with
testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL 200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks. Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration is not officially approved by Health Canada. T levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection in week 6 and 8. At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels were measured however; the week 12 data are still being collected. Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit 0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l (p¼0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T (25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1 (27.46+12.91 nmol/l).

Patients tolerated this therapy with no adverse effects.

Conclusions: A once-week SC injection of 50–100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further evaluation.


================================================== ================================================== =====

Saudi Med J. 2006 Dec;27(12):1843-6

Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A pilot study report.

Al-Futaisi AM, Al-Zakwani IS, Almahrezi AM, Morris D.
Department of Medicine, College of Medicine & Health Sciences, PO Box 35, Postal Code 123, Al-Khod, Sultanate of Oman. Tel. +968 99475401. Tel/Fax. +968 24413419. E-mail: alfutaisi@squ.edu.om.

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low doses of subcutaneous testosterone in hypogonadal men since the intramuscular route, which is the most widely used form of testosterone replacement therapy, is inconvenient to many patients.

METHODS: All men with primary and secondary hypogonadism attending the reproductive endocrine clinic at Royal Victoria Hospital, Monteral, Quebec, Canada, were invited to participate in the study.

Subjects were enrolled from January 2002 till December 2002. Patients were asked to self-administer weekly low doses of testosterone enanthate using 0.5 ml insulin syringe. RESULTS: A total of 22 patients were enrolled in the study. The mean trough was 14.48 +/- 3.14 nmol/L and peak total testosterone was 21.65 +/- 7.32 nmol/L. For the free testosterone the average trough was 59.94 +/- 20.60 pmol/L and the peak was 85.17 +/- 32.88 pmol/L. All of the patients delivered testosterone with ease and no local reactions were reported.

CONCLUSION: Therapy with weekly subcutaneous testosterone produced serum levels that were within the normal range in 100% of patients for both peak and trough levels. This is the first report, which demonstrated the efficacy of delivering weekly testosterone using this cheap, safe, and less painful subcutaneous route.

[Praetorian]

the old school also used to do pyramid cycles and spot injections for growth.... Sub Q works just fine.

============================


STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED
WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE
INJECTIONS

M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang
Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University,
Hamilton, ON, Canada

Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen replacement has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous
(SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however, its physiological effects are unclear.

We therefore investigated the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using
SC therapy.

Patients and methods: Between May and September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving 10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism. Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for 41 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with
testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL 200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks. Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration is not officially approved by Health Canada. T levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection in week 6 and 8. At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels were measured however; the week 12 data are still being collected. Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit 0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l (p¼0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T (25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1 (27.46+12.91 nmol/l).

Patients tolerated this therapy with no adverse effects.

Conclusions: A once-week SC injection of 50–100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further evaluation.


================================================== ================================================== =====

Saudi Med J. 2006 Dec;27(12):1843-6

Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A pilot study report.

Al-Futaisi AM, Al-Zakwani IS, Almahrezi AM, Morris D.
Department of Medicine, College of Medicine & Health Sciences, PO Box 35, Postal Code 123, Al-Khod, Sultanate of Oman. Tel. +968 99475401. Tel/Fax. +968 24413419. E-mail: alfutaisi@squ.edu.om.

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low doses of subcutaneous testosterone in hypogonadal men since the intramuscular route, which is the most widely used form of testosterone replacement therapy, is inconvenient to many patients.

METHODS: All men with primary and secondary hypogonadism attending the reproductive endocrine clinic at Royal Victoria Hospital, Monteral, Quebec, Canada, were invited to participate in the study.

Subjects were enrolled from January 2002 till December 2002. Patients were asked to self-administer weekly low doses of testosterone enanthate using 0.5 ml insulin syringe. RESULTS: A total of 22 patients were enrolled in the study. The mean trough was 14.48 +/- 3.14 nmol/L and peak total testosterone was 21.65 +/- 7.32 nmol/L. For the free testosterone the average trough was 59.94 +/- 20.60 pmol/L and the peak was 85.17 +/- 32.88 pmol/L. All of the patients delivered testosterone with ease and no local reactions were reported.

CONCLUSION: Therapy with weekly subcutaneous testosterone produced serum levels that were within the normal range in 100% of patients for both peak and trough levels. This is the first report, which demonstrated the efficacy of delivering weekly testosterone using this cheap, safe, and less painful subcutaneous route.

The above study illustrates levels of testosterone stability using a low dose injection. It does not address the absorption issue especially since most BB are not doing low dose or low volume...how convenient is injecting 3cc subq with an insulin pin? With higher volume injects you are getting into absorption issues again.
For HRT I dont see an issue for low dose inject...some patients may prefer that over IM but for BB you are talking a much different context...IM is preferred.
P

[waderow]

The above study illustrates levels of testosterone stability using a low dose injection. It does not address the absorption issue especially since most BB are not doing low dose or low volume...how convenient is injecting 3cc subq with an insulin pin? With higher volume injects you are getting into absorption issues again.
For HRT I dont see an issue for low dose inject...some patients may prefer that over IM but for BB you are talking a much different context...IM is preferred.
P

or a combination.....

Some guys here do 250mg a week. Some 500. 1/2 cc E3d or 1cc E3d is childs play. A big guy banging 8-10cc per week isnt going to be using this. Obviously.

I used this method when I got above 3cc eod, and used this method to take the excess subQ, and keep the 3cc IM. It was a godsend.

[Praetorian]

or a combination.....

Some guys here do 250mg a week. Some 500. 1/2 cc E3d or 1cc E3d is childs play. A big guy banging 8-10cc per week isnt going to be using this. Obviously.

I used this method when I got above 3cc eod, and used this method to take the excess subQ, and keep the 3cc IM. It was a godsend.

Yes agreed low dose low volume it can be done...if you are hitting 2-3cc EOD which would be quite moderate dosing then IM is much preferred.
P

[Vitamin S]

Hey P,

regarding palumbos off-seaon diet he has outlined for the general mass on rxmuscle.com i noticed that there is no fats in his post-workout shake but there are fats with every other shake/meal is that because it would defeat the purpose of insulin spike when whey isolate is used with waxy maize? i know this wouldn't be wise if using insulin because its a storage hormone and one would be strong the fats along the carbs/protein?


also do whole nuts such as cashews, almonds etc have to be refridgerated or is it okay on the shelf?

lastly
do lower estrogen levels lower the immune systems ability to ward of a cold/flu especially during PCT when stuff like aromasin, nolvadex etc are used. just curious as i haven't been sick all year but now since starting PCT week 2 into it, i have a cold/flu symptoms?

thanks.

[Praetorian]

Hey P,

regarding palumbos off-seaon diet he has outlined for the general mass on rxmuscle.com i noticed that there is no fats in his post-workout shake but there are fats with every other shake/meal is that because it would defeat the purpose of insulin spike when whey isolate is used with waxy maize? i know this wouldn't be wise if using insulin because its a storage hormone and one would be strong the fats along the carbs/protein?


also do whole nuts such as cashews, almonds etc have to be refridgerated or is it okay on the shelf?

lastly
do lower estrogen levels lower the immune systems ability to ward of a cold/flu especially during PCT when stuff like aromasin, nolvadex etc are used. just curious as i haven't been sick all year but now since starting PCT week 2 into it, i have a cold/flu symptoms?

thanks.

Fats in the PWO shake will slow transit time and blunt the insulin response correct...leave the fats out offseason.

When purchasing whole nuts try to buy the raw ones not roasted etc and yes keeping them in the refrigerator is much better.

I would think any hormone imbalance whether it be lower estrogen or lower testosterone or increased cortisol will greatly affect the immune system. It is not uncommom for BB's to catch a cold while on PCT most likely due to these issues.
P

[uphgrn]

second part of my question; reverse grip bench press, any thoughts to this movement? thanks.

[Praetorian]

second part of my question; reverse grip bench press, any thoughts to this movement? thanks.

Used alot by powerlifters who have had shoulder injuries. Anthony Clarke was one who was famous for this lift...I watched him personally bench 700lbs raw with a reverse grip in a parking lot of a mall in San Diego. It puts more emphasis on the triceps and takes some off the the front delts by reducing shoulder rotation.
P

[Vitamin S]

P,

damn man gotta give it to you you seem to know all the asnwers probably from all the years u been in bodybuilding, good to have you hear aalways appreciate your advise and time you take out daily to answer our questions, im sure you have been asked them over and over again.

thanks for patience.

[Praetorian]

Glad its helping. I think it just means im getting old lol.
P ;o)

[uphgrn]

Thanks, I guess thats they way I'll have to go because of my shoulders, I do find the grip a bit awkward, harder on the wrists, but I can feel it more on the upper pec. Anymore suggestions for chest workout with sketchy shoulders. Thanks

[Praetorian]

Thanks, I guess thats they way I'll have to go because of my shoulders, I do find the grip a bit awkward, harder on the wrists, but I can feel it more on the upper pec. Anymore suggestions for chest workout with sketchy shoulders. Thanks

What is the issue with your shoulders?
P

[uphgrn]

Two issues; because my form has suffered on any type of bench due to restricted movement (I can't get the correct arch anymore) my shoulders have gotten to big because obviously they are being used instead of my pec, and secondly I slightly tore both doing wide chin ups, and now they both hurt when I do to much. I've tried changing positions and weight but in the end I'm having a hard time isolating my pecs it seems no matter how I lift my shoulders eventually take over. To the point when I use cables now I feel it in my shoulders and I'm pretty sure my movement on these is correct. I guess I'm asking if there is anything that really isolates the pec, and I do find the reverse grip bench is better so is there anything else? Thanks.

[Praetorian]

Two issues; because my form has suffered on any type of bench due to restricted movement (I can't get the correct arch anymore) my shoulders have gotten to big because obviously they are being used instead of my pec, and secondly I slightly tore both doing wide chin ups, and now they both hurt when I do to much. I've tried changing positions and weight but in the end I'm having a hard time isolating my pecs it seems no matter how I lift my shoulders eventually take over. To the point when I use cables now I feel it in my shoulders and I'm pretty sure my movement on these is correct. I guess I'm asking if there is anything that really isolates the pec, and I do find the reverse grip bench is better so is there anything else? Thanks.

You may also want to try a slight decline...this would also alleviate some shoulder stress. How about dumbbell flyes...how do you feel when you do them?
P

[uphgrn]

Same issue with flyes, I can do them, my form is good, but I can't go heavy anymore. I'll try the slight decline, I haven't done decline benches in some time because I didn't need lower pec help, but I'll see if it helps with the shoulder rotation. Sucks because I like doing shoulders, they respond well but I can't work them very much because they are past my pecs and they hurt to much when I go heavy, I end up walking out of the gym cradling both elbows looking like (excuse this expression) a retard, and its starting to get that way on chest days now. Thanks for the suggestions I'll let you know if it helps.

[A_N_T]

Hi Praetorian! i returned from competition, just want to show you results and ask your opinion.
i took first place in juniors!15314

15315

15316

[Delt King]

^^ You look great ^^

But those aren't juniors standing behind you! Did you do the open class also?

[Praetorian]

[QUOTE=A_N_T;331508]Hi Praetorian! i returned from competition, just want to show you results and ask your opinion.
i took first place in juniors!

Congrats ANT you look great...very nice side chest shot. If you can add some proportionate mass in the next few years youll do very well in the open class. My only critique would be the hams and glutes can tighten up a bit more and you could be slightly drier...but that is really just fine tuning.
Great work!
P

[A_N_T]

yes organizators asked me to compete in absolute category, but i am too small for it... :)

[A_N_T]

Congrats ANT you look great...very nice side chest shot. If you can add some proportionate mass in the next few years youll do very well in the open class. My only critique would be the hams and glutes can tighten up a bit more and you could be slightly drier...but that is really just fine tuning.
Great work!
P

thanks :) i know! i will try to gain some more meat :) how to make the hams and glutes tighten i dont know....

[Praetorian]

thanks :) i know! i will try to gain some more meat :) how to make the hams and glutes tighten i dont know....

The last 4 weeks of diet is when things need to really tighten up...running just protein and veggies for a few days then back to pro and fat helps drop that stubborn ham and glute fat...plus additional size in these areas makes a big difference as well.
P

[A_N_T]

last 3 weeks i competed every saturday so i ate 5 days only chicken breasts with flax oil and day before show and show day only rice...so i did 3 shows and from one to another i became better and better... i need more size-and i'll make it!
thanks for advice!

[Vitamin S]

P,

i have noticed that when ever i do heavy back and biceps the same day esp hammer curls, later in bed when i go to sleep my forearms terrible lock up and spasm and its quite painful, no other muscle does this just brachialis, pronator teres, and brachloradialis and supinator fukkkin kills so much.

not sure if straps would help with some movements, i also noticed when doing back alone without biceps if i do the close grip v bar lat pull downs they also lock up, so certain exercises does this to me, is this normal have you heard of this before.

thx

[rockgym]

30lbs is a huge increase in BW (15%) so I would say your cycle was very effective...test cyp wil take at least 3-4 weeks prior to becoming effective and most liekly 5-6 before you really feel results. You can take your whey protein with the waxy in your PWO shake...you dont have to wait 30min.
P

thanks for all the help prae.

i hear you, 30lbs is a big increase, but i gained 20 of those 30lbs off my rebound, before the testosterone started to kick in. thats why im just a bit dissapointed.

the only reason i waited 30min to take my protein after my waxy maize is because RazorR reccomended it. for digestive reasons i think. you dont believe the protein will slow down the absorbtion rate of the waxy?

and also big problem here. if you could help me out here this would be great. for 12 days now ive been taking anadrol 100mg ed. i have 50mg tabs. i take 1 tab morning and one tab like 5-7 hours later. after a week on it i gained 10lbs. at day 10 i think it really started to kick in. i felt a bit stronger and i began to get crazy lower back pumps. the back pumps were cool for about a day. day 11 it got pretty bad, but was horrible in that it seemed to transfer over to my stomach. bad stomach pains and i couldnt get to sleep, i was so uncomfortable, havnt had pain like this in awhile. i read somewhere about taking advil, but dont remember if it was good or bad. but i took a tab of advil and the pain went away in a hour and got to bed. next day i took 100mg of dbol again. when i took that 2nd tab the lower back pumps kicked in even more. it didnt go to my stomach though. but i had to get to sleep in like 4 or 5 hours and this stuff wasnt going away, i tried to go to bed, again wasnt happening. i took 1 advil tab, didnt help. so i took 2 and another hour later it eased down.

so my question to you is, can i continue to take 100mg of anadrol a day and just take 1 or 2 advil tabs the same day if i cant get to sleep? or can this really hurt my body in the long run??

or should i just drop the anadrol to 50mg a day and stay away from the advil most definetly??

i know you are not a doctor, but i was just wondering if you have any info on this.

[Praetorian]

last 3 weeks i competed every saturday so i ate 5 days only chicken breasts with flax oil and day before show and show day only rice...so i did 3 shows and from one to another i became better and better... i need more size-and i'll make it!
thanks for advice!

The issue is the flax oil...you should be eating strictly protein and a few veggies no fats except when carbing up.
P

[Praetorian]

I was always under the impression that salt=retention and water=flushing.. hmm.. typically my intake of sodium is quite low and I drink 4-5l of water per day.. With this much water how many mg's/g's would you recommend?

So I assume the goal is finding a happy medium?

Taking this into consideration.. in the last month before competition is it therefore advised to slowly decrease water and increase sodium thus creating the hard body?

Thanks Prae!

Excess sodium can cause water retention if you limit water intake. If you drink plenty of water you will flush out any excess sodium and you will have balanced electrolytes. Aldosterone is the hormone that determines water regulation in the body if you limit sodium the body will increase adosterone to tell the kidneys to recirculate sodium and hence water...this will lead to water retention. If you keep sodium levels moderate and drink plenty of water...aldosterone levels will drop and hence sodium will be flushed and the water goes with it. The happy medium is drink plenty of water...1-1.5 gallons daily and dont limit sodium...you dont need to measure it super strictly...just use condiments with sodium to taste etc.
The only time sodium is restricted is the day before a show...cut out all excess sodium but what is naturally present is food is fine...ie eggs etc. Water is always kept moderate until about 12-18 hours out from the show then it is cut.

Never taper water before a show...

-High water intake inhibits ADH release (high blood volume --> low anti-diuretic hormone release --> less water reabsorption in the kidneys)

-Tapering water causes ADH secretion to increase in response to the slow reduction in water intake. It is counterproductive to taper water!!!

P

[Praetorian]

thanks for all the help prae.

i hear you, 30lbs is a big increase, but i gained 20 of those 30lbs off my rebound, before the testosterone started to kick in. thats why im just a bit dissapointed.

the only reason i waited 30min to take my protein after my waxy maize is because RazorR reccomended it. for digestive reasons i think. you dont believe the protein will slow down the absorbtion rate of the waxy?

and also big problem here. if you could help me out here this would be great. for 12 days now ive been taking anadrol 100mg ed. i have 50mg tabs. i take 1 tab morning and one tab like 5-7 hours later. after a week on it i gained 10lbs. at day 10 i think it really started to kick in. i felt a bit stronger and i began to get crazy lower back pumps. the back pumps were cool for about a day. day 11 it got pretty bad, but was horrible in that it seemed to transfer over to my stomach. bad stomach pains and i couldnt get to sleep, i was so uncomfortable, havnt had pain like this in awhile. i read somewhere about taking advil, but dont remember if it was good or bad. but i took a tab of advil and the pain went away in a hour and got to bed. next day i took 100mg of dbol again. when i took that 2nd tab the lower back pumps kicked in even more. it didnt go to my stomach though. but i had to get to sleep in like 4 or 5 hours and this stuff wasnt going away, i tried to go to bed, again wasnt happening. i took 1 advil tab, didnt help. so i took 2 and another hour later it eased down.

so my question to you is, can i continue to take 100mg of anadrol a day and just take 1 or 2 advil tabs the same day if i cant get to sleep? or can this really hurt my body in the long run??

or should i just drop the anadrol to 50mg a day and stay away from the advil most definetly??

i know you are not a doctor, but i was just wondering if you have any info on this.

I would really suggest stopping the anadrol...the gains are not worth the health risk. Taking advil on top of anadrol is a huge no no...anadrol is liver toxic adding advil which is also harsh on the liver is just adding fuel to the fire...not good. As for the protein slowing the absoprtion of the waxy maize...insignificant...it not going to make the the any difference in how much muscle you gain.

P

[rockgym]

I would really suggest stopping the anadrol...the gains are not worth the health risk. Taking advild on top of anadrol is a huge no no...anadrol is liver toxic adding advil which is also harsh on the liver is just adding fuel to the fire...not good. As for the protein slowing the absoprtion of the waxy maize...insignificant...it not going to make the the any difference in how much muscle you gain.

P

ok thanks again prae for the help

[Praetorian]

P,

i have noticed that when ever i do heavy back and biceps the same day esp hammer curls, later in bed when i go to sleep my forearms terrible lock up and spasm and its quite painful, no other muscle does this just brachialis, pronator teres, and brachloradialis and supinator fukkkin kills so much.

not sure if straps would help with some movements, i also noticed when doing back alone without biceps if i do the close grip v bar lat pull downs they also lock up, so certain exercises does this to me, is this normal have you heard of this before.

thx

Your gripping muscles in your forearms are being used to the max...try wrapping your wrists prior biceps training....also on back exercises you can use lifting straps..that should help.

P

[buildinthaskinnys]

Praetorian, is there any evidence that pct actually works in helping the body recover from aas? These ancilliarys such as clomid, hcg and so forth were never designed for the recovering juicer so what makes people so sure that they are effective besides the bro-science that everyone seems to follow in regards to their usage? From what I understand all pre 90's bodybuilders tapered only when coming off. I also know that there are still bodybuilders using the taper off methods with success as i have read this on another board. thanks

[rockgym]

also prae, what should i get done for a blood test to make sure everything is ok? i get my medical paid for by the government so its all free. what should i get done to have my liver checked? and what else do you reccomend to have checked?

[Vitamin S]

Hey P,

regarding slin post workout. i started off at 10grams of carb per iu of insulin. should one find a sweet spot or just stick to the 10g per IU. i started of at 10g per iu and then tried 9g per iu and this also worked, not sure how low one needs to go if at all.

also i started off 10iu post workout and after a few weeks im now doing 15iu, i felt a bit more fuller at 15iu then i did at 10iu. is there a max limit or certain amount of IU's one should slowly move up over time?

and is one month off / on fine so one doesnt' become dependant on it?

thx

[Praetorian]

Praetorian, is there any evidence that pct actually works in helping the body recover from aas? These ancilliarys such as clomid, hcg and so forth were never designed for the recovering juicer so what makes people so sure that they are effective besides the bro-science that everyone seems to follow in regards to their usage? From what I understand all pre 90's bodybuilders tapered only when coming off. I also know that there are still bodybuilders using the taper off methods with success as i have read this on another board. thanks

Plenty of evidence is available. Not only is HCG and Clomid indicated as treatments for hypogonadism but Clomid is the defacto standard used by Endocrinologists to determine seconday hypogonadism via the Clomid stimulation test. On the package insert of Canadian produced HCG it will state the dosage recommended when using HCG as a treatment for hypogonadism.
There are also studies published where these compounds are used to treat secondary hypogonadism from prolonged aas usage in BB's.
This is not broscience at all...it is actual medical indications.
The tapering off method is insufficient for PCT in BB's who are not young and have done mutliple or long duration cycles. Young guys may recover quickly but as they age and as there usage increases they will find quick recovery extremely difficult without proper PCT.
The idea is to recover as quickly as possible hence saving most of your gains. Even without PCT most people will recover once the aas have been removed from their system however it may take months and thus the loss of most if not all gains, depression, loss of libido, etc...not what most people want.
P
P

[Praetorian]

also prae, what should i get done for a blood test to make sure everything is ok? i get my medical paid for by the government so its all free. what should i get done to have my liver checked? and what else do you reccomend to have checked?

Getting blood work done after every cycle is a no brainer...not getting it done is irresponsible. Once PCT is finished....wait two weeks and get blood work done.

Check these...

Biochemistry:
Glucose- fasting
HbA1C
TSH
Creatinine
Uric Acid
Sodium
Potassium
Chloride
CK
ALT
ALK Phosphates
Lipid assessment (cholesterol)
Urinalysis (chemical)
free testosterone

Hematology:
CBC
Urine

P

[Praetorian]

Hey P,

regarding slin post workout. i started off at 10grams of carb per iu of insulin. should one find a sweet spot or just stick to the 10g per IU. i started of at 10g per iu and then tried 9g per iu and this also worked, not sure how low one needs to go if at all.

also i started off 10iu post workout and after a few weeks im now doing 15iu, i felt a bit more fuller at 15iu then i did at 10iu. is there a max limit or certain amount of IU's one should slowly move up over time?

and is one month off / on fine so one doesnt' become dependant on it?

thx


Once you hit 10 iu I would split the dosage up...say one morning shot and one post workout shot. I dont see any need to go above 20iu split into two 10iu shots per day. You dont need to go one month on one off...you will not become dependant on insulin that is a myth. Taking exogenous insulin actually removes some stress from the pancreas in that it doesnt have to produces as much. Insulin is secreted everytime we eat...not just with carbs.
You can run slin th entire cycle....however I would only recommend it if you arent growing....if you take it and it is not required it will only make you fat.
P

[rockgym]

ok awesome

also do you reccomend taking Liv52 and milk thistle right after you finish running the orals? or take it while running orals? when and what products would you run for pct for the orlas? ive heard and read mixed views on this subject

[Praetorian]

ok awesome

also do you reccomend taking Liv52 and milk thistle right after you finish running the orals? or take it while running orals? when and what products would you run for pct for the orlas? ive heard and read mixed views on this subject

Liv52 or a good liver flush product such as those produced by Omga Alpha Pharmaceuticals woudl be a good idea after a cycle especially if orals were used. PCT is not any diffirent just because orals were used....the standard protocol with HCG, Clomid, Aromasin is fine.
P

[#8]

I have read various articles on the usage of microwaves to cook and or reheat food. Some articles claim that all the nutrients are destroyed once the inner temperature reaches a certain degree and it reduces the bio-availability of the food to next to nothing. Do you know body builders that use microwaves? Do you use one yourself? How much truth is there to this destruction of nutrients claim?

[Praetorian]

I have read various articles on the usage of microwaves to cook and or reheat food. Some articles claim that all the nutrients are destroyed once the inner temperature reaches a certain degree and it reduces the bio-availability of the food to next to nothing. Do you know body builders that use microwaves? Do you use one yourself? How much truth is there to this destruction of nutrients claim?

I think almost every BB that has competed has used a microwave probably more so then the average person. So many guys who have competed probably remember heating up their food from tupperware in the microwave sitting in a hotel room the day before a show. If that article were true I think we would have some pretty small BB walking around.
P

[natenator]

I think almost every BB that has competed has used a microwave probably more so then the average person. So many guys who have competed probably remember heating up their food from tupperware in the microwave sitting in a hotel room the day before a show. I that article were true I think we would have some pretty small BB walking around.
P
I wouldn't be able to eat tghe majority of my meals if not for a nuker.

[ubcpower]

Hey P,
What are your thoughts on using a keto style approach (say the palumbo diet) with only trace carbs in an offseason or lean gaining approach. Lets say one uses the Palumbo diet and adds just enough kcal from fats or protein to get them into a slight caloric surplus. Dave himself has been asked this question on his forum and his answer has always been "try it! im interested, please let me know"
I am under the impression that excess protein could potentially be stored as glycogen? But what if your surplus calories came from fat such as mac nut oil or something like that?

[Praetorian]

Hey P,
What are your thoughts on using a keto style approach (say the palumbo diet) with only trace carbs in an offseason or lean gaining approach. Lets say one uses the Palumbo diet and adds just enough kcal from fats or protein to get them into a slight caloric surplus. Dave himself has been asked this question on his forum and his answer has always been "try it! im interested, please let me know"
I am under the impression that excess protein could potentially be stored as glycogen? But what if your surplus calories came from fat such as mac nut oil or something like that?

Carbs are necessary offseason for growth. You need certain hormones to be sufficiently present to grow...insulin being one of them. I guess the question comes down to do you mind sacraficing muscle growth for remaining lean. If you eat more carbs....you will definitely gain more muscle...but you wont remain ripped. As a BB my answer would be yes i mind....id rather gain the most muscle possible and without overdoing the fat. I think Dave's answer as posted here reflects his frustration after getting asked that many times...ive seen him answer the question as I have above frequently. His offseason diet includes carbs in each meal...not a huge amount but 30-50g depending on the individual. If he thought it woud be better to reduce them I think he would have.
P

[rickyboy36]

Hey Prae..seeing we are talking about ketosis,how many pounds a week do your clients lose on average?

Im asking you this because ive lost a great deal so far in the pass two weeks.The thing is though,before i started my keto diet,i was on a regular low carb one for about 9-10 weeks and had lost maybe 10lbs.Now when i started my Keto diet 2 weeks ago i would say i was about in the 10-11% range.On top of that i lowered my calorie intake by 500 cals for a total of 2500 calories a day.I go to the gym twice a day.Weights in the morning followed by 20-30mins cardio(60mins overall) and then go back in at night for another 45 mins of cardio.I dropped 4lbs this week and im only using 1cc of test..no clen yet.Is it possible that the 4lbs is all water and fat?This is the first time i do a keto diet and im not sure what an average loss per week is with this type of diet..or what the safe amount is to lose.Like i said,im close to 10% and it doesnt seem right to lose that much so quickly especially seeing i had been dieting on a low carb diet for the past 10 weeks before starting..

Thanks!!

[Praetorian]

Hey Prae..seeing we are talking about ketosis,how many pounds a week do your clients lose on average?

Im asking you this because ive lost a great deal so far in the pass two weeks.The thing is though,before i started my keto diet,i was on a regular low carb one for about 9-10 weeks and had lost maybe 10lbs.Now when i started my Keto diet 2 weeks ago i would say i was about in the 10-11% range.On top of that i lowered my calorie intake by 500 cals for a total of 2500 calories a day.I go to the gym twice a day.Weights in the morning followed by 20-30mins cardio(60mins overall) and then go back in at night for another 45 mins of cardio.I dropped 4lbs this week and im only using 1cc of test..no clen yet.Is it possible that the 4lbs is all water and fat?This is the first time i do a keto diet and im not sure what an average loss per week is with this type of diet..or what the safe amount is to lose.Like i said,im close to 10% and it doesnt seem right to lose that much so quickly especially seeing i had been dieting on a low carb diet for the past 10 weeks before starting..

Thanks!!

It all depends on the client....males generally drop more per week than females...but about 2lbs per week is average. In the first few weeks a 6-10lb loss is quite common...and yes its mostly water due do glycogen depletion. Even dieting low carb you still have stores of glycogen...that is why it takes approx 72 hours to get into ketosis.
m not sure what your diet is specifically but if you are getting adequate fats you will not lose muscle. When I diet i lose about 10-13 lbs the first two weeks....mostly water....its relative...the bigger you are the more you will lose the first few weeks.
P

[pcruiser73]

What do you think about cycling carbs on a mass gaining program to help limit fat gain. For instance eating carbs at each meal on work out days and carbs only for 2 meals on non workout days?(this is simplified but you get the idea). This is based on eating 6-7 meals per day.

[Praetorian]

What do you think about cycling carbs on a mass gaining program to help limit fat gain. For instance eating carbs at each meal on work out days and carbs only for 2 meals on non workout days?(this is simplified but you get the idea). This is based on eating 6-7 meals per day.

Cycling carbs on a mass gaining program is fine but you need to do it by meal for men. If you limit carbs on non training (recuperation) days than you will be limiting growth. You grow when you rest not when you train. If you limit carbs the last meal or two during the day then you will remain leaner and should not limit muscle growth much.
P

[Vitamin S]

hey P

how is my pct? i know i should have hcg in there but this time around i didn't have access to it so here is what im doing?

20mg nolvadex for weeks 1-6
25mg aromasin for weeks 1-6
muscle pharm battle fuel as per label (had very good reviews on bb.com) as per label below claims:

Increases Natural Testosterone Output
Break Performance Plateaus
Supports Liver and Kidney Function
Lowers Estrogen
Supports Internal Organs for Optimal Function
Can be used for PCT Support

and lastly
collosal labs sex cycle as per label (as per label claims below)
Sex Cycle is ideal for those looking to support healthy sexual function after steroids or during a cutting (fat loss) cycle. Sex Cycle gives you incredible value, cGMP manufacturing and testing, all natural ingredients, incredible results.

i've dropped some more weight while on pct, probably all water since my strengh is the same.

i've also started some creatine, and since im still on gh im shooting slin post workout.

thx

[Praetorian]

hey P

how is my pct? i know i should have hcg in there but this time around i didn't have access to it so here is what im doing?

20mg nolvadex for weeks 1-6
25mg aromasin for weeks 1-6
muscle pharm battle fuel as per label (had very good reviews on bb.com) as per label below claims:

Increases Natural Testosterone Output
Break Performance Plateaus
Supports Liver and Kidney Function
Lowers Estrogen
Supports Internal Organs for Optimal Function
Can be used for PCT Support

and lastly
collosal labs sex cycle as per label (as per label claims below)
Sex Cycle is ideal for those looking to support healthy sexual function after steroids or during a cutting (fat loss) cycle. Sex Cycle gives you incredible value, cGMP manufacturing and testing, all natural ingredients, incredible results.

i've dropped some more weight while on pct, probably all water since my strengh is the same.

i've also started some creatine, and since im still on gh im shooting slin post workout.

thx

I definitely would have liked to see HCG in there and Clomid instead of Nolvadex but since that is what you have...
The aromasin may be too high at 25mgED...being that you are not using HCG you wont get a huge boost in endo test....so I doubt you would need 25mg ED...12.5mg ED should suffice with the 20mg nolvadex. I would also keep the GH in at 2iu per day...the slin is unnecessary. The OTC products are well lets just say iffy. Creatine is a good idea as well.
Watch your volume while training and avoid going to failure while running PCT.
P

[jamex]

Hi Praetorian,

On a ketogenic diet, does alcohol disrupt ketosis any differently than carbs? If one were to indulge excessively, would they still return to ketosis the next morning? Any other cautions regarding alcohol + keto beyond the obvious "alcohol has no place in a BB diet" ?

Also curious how effective keto is at 10% and less bf compared to higher bf. Can it still be used to drop right down to 6-7% or is that a different game altogether?

[Vitamin S]

hi p,

what u think about Phosphatidylserine as an otc- cortisol blocker ? can it be used during PCT and onwards?

[Praetorian]

Hi Praetorian,

On a ketogenic diet, does alcohol disrupt ketosis any differently than carbs? If one were to indulge excessively, would they still return to ketosis the next morning? Any other cautions regarding alcohol + keto beyond the obvious "alcohol has no place in a BB diet" ?

Also curious how effective keto is at 10% and less bf compared to higher bf. Can it still be used to drop right down to 6-7% or is that a different game altogether?

Alcohol will immediately halt the fat buring process and kick you out of ketosis....save the drinks for offseason. You will not get optimal results if you consume alcohol while dieting period.
Keto is extremely effective at 10% BF...it really doesnt matter what % the person is keto is very effective because of how it works with the body not against it as a low carb low fat diet does.
P

[Praetorian]

hi p,

what u think about Phosphatidylserine as an otc- cortisol blocker ? can it be used during PCT and onwards?

Its been hyped in many marketing campaigns due to the effect of high cortisol and fat deposition. I doubt it will be all that effective...I woudl suggest clen instead during PCT.
P

[jamex]

Alcohol will immediately halt the fat buring process and kick you out of ketosis....save the drinks for offseason. You will not get optimal results if you consume alcohol while dieting period.
Keto is extremely effective at 10% BF...it really doesnt matter what % the person is keto is very effective because of how it works with the body not against it as a low carb low fat diet does.
P

Figured the drinking is a no-no any time of year really. I'm pretty disciplined however new years eve more than likely will end up being an indulgent night. Just wondering if I know ahead of time, would there be any benefit in shifting the diet a certain way beforehand.

One other thing I'm curious about keto. I recall you mentioning veggies should be restricted to 2 meals a day (you may not have said restricted but indicated 2 meals regardless). I usually have lots of brocolli ,spinach and cellery on hand, and I know they're mostly fibre and nutrients. These are my ONLY direct carb sources during keto, I've cut everything else out aside from trace in nuts and nutbutters. Should I still limit these to 2 meals a day (generally pre and post for me) or are they safe to include in small amounts with every meal as long as overall carb count remains 30-50g total?

Thanks.

[beretta96]

Hi P,

I asked you once before about deadlifts and a previous back injury. Well I've been at it lately, it's been going OK, I did 135# today 3 sets of 10 with no belt of course. Would you have any links to good vids of proper technique? I check youtube but there seems to be a variation of technique. I don't want another injury and would like to know the proper way. My lower back hurts and feels tight after. I've only experienced this when I aggravate my back. It's very tolerable but not sure if this is from doing it right or wrong! Also, at what weight should I consider a belt? I'm thinking about a Toro or Inzer lever belt. Probably a Toro.

thanks again, it's much appreciated.

[Praetorian]

Figured the drinking is a no-no any time of year really. I'm pretty disciplined however new years eve more than likely will end up being an indulgent night. Just wondering if I know ahead of time, would there be any benefit in shifting the diet a certain way beforehand.

One other thing I'm curious about keto. I recall you mentioning veggies should be restricted to 2 meals a day (you may not have said restricted but indicated 2 meals regardless). I usually have lots of brocolli ,spinach and cellery on hand, and I know they're mostly fibre and nutrients. These are my ONLY direct carb sources during keto, I've cut everything else out aside from trace in nuts and nutbutters. Should I still limit these to 2 meals a day (generally pre and post for me) or are they safe to include in small amounts with every meal as long as overall carb count remains 30-50g total?

Thanks.

I wouldnt worry about changing the diet because of New Years...if you are are going out to have fun it wont make much difference.
Veggies are fibrous carbohydrate...too many can kick you out of ketosis...you need some cabrs while on a keto diet but you want to limit them to 50g max from veggies and trace carbs....2 meals is sufficient for veggies.
P

[Praetorian]

Hi P,

I asked you once before about deadlifts and a previous back injury. Well I've been at it lately, it's been going OK, I did 135# today 3 sets of 10 with no belt of course. Would you have any links to good vids of proper technique? I check youtube but there seems to be a variation of technique. I don't want another injury and would like to know the proper way. My lower back hurts and feels tight after. I've only experienced this when I aggravate my back. It's very tolerable but not sure if this is from doing it right or wrong! Also, at what weight should I consider a belt? I'm thinking about a Toro or Inzer lever belt. Probably a Toro.

thanks again, it's much appreciated.

Do a search on youtube for Andy Bolton and/or Ed Coan...two of the best.
P

[Vitamin S]

P,

a few questions regarding steroids and pregnancy,

1. does one have to be off steroids for a certain amount of time after PCT is done, before trying to have a baby? (my wife has never touched any AAS, so it would be me that is of concern)

2. does one even need to be off steroids at all?

3. would you get anything checked in terms of blood tests after PCT before trying?

4. any steroids one should avoid at all?

5. what about HGH effects on having a baby?

thanks so much.

[Vitamin S]

p,

throwing in fiber such as benefiber into protein shakes along with fats, would that further delay the transient time of the protien shake?

[Hugheser]

Excess sodium can cause water retention if you limit water intake. If you drink plenty of water you will flush out any excess sodium and you will have balanced electrolytes. Aldosterone is the hormone that determines water regulation in the body if you limit sodium the body will increase adosterone to tell the kidneys to recirculate sodium and hence water...this will lead to water retention. If you keep sodium levels moderate and drink plenty of water...aldosterone levels will drop and hence sodium will be flushed and the water goes with it. The happy medium is drink plenty of water...1-1.5 gallons daily and dont limit sodium...you dont need to measure it super strictly...just use condiments with sodium to taste etc.
The only time sodium is restricted is the day before a show...cut out all excess sodium but what is naturally present is food is fine...ie eggs etc. Water is always kept moderate until about 12-18 hours out from the show then it is cut.

Never taper water before a show...

-High water intake inhibits ADH release (high blood volume --> low anti-diuretic hormone release --> less water reabsorption in the kidneys)

-Tapering water causes ADH secretion to increase in response to the slow reduction in water intake. It is counterproductive to taper water!!!

P


Looks like someone read this month Muscular Development mag?

[Praetorian]

Looks like someone read this month Muscular Development mag?

Sorry I dont read MD. Ive posted this many times and on many boards in the last 7-8 years. The bottom part of the post is actually a summary of a post by Homonunculus maybe 9 years ago.
P

[Praetorian]

P,

a few questions regarding steroids and pregnancy,

1. does one have to be off steroids for a certain amount of time after PCT is done, before trying to have a baby? (my wife has never touched any AAS, so it would be me that is of concern) IN MOST CASES YES IT DOES HELP...ALSO GET BLOOD WORK DONE TO CHECK TEST AND FSH LEVELS

2. does one even need to be off steroids at all? NO NOT NECESSARILY..GUYS HAVE BEEN KNOW TO IMPREGNATE THEIR SPOUSES WHILE ON CYCLE

3. would you get anything checked in terms of blood tests after PCT before trying? FREE TEST, FSH, LH

4. any steroids one should avoid at all? ALL AAS WILL SUPPRESS HPTA SOME MORE THAN OTHERS...I DOUBT AVOIDING SOME WHILE USING OTHERS WILL MATTER MUCH

5. what about HGH effects on having a baby? FROM A MALE USING I DONT SEE ANY ISSUE....FEMALES SHOUDL NOT BE ON IT IF PREGNANT....BEST CASE SCENARIO GO OFF EVERYTHING DO PCT AND GET BLOOD WORK....THEN HAVE FUN!

thanks so much.


P

[Praetorian]

p,

throwing in fiber such as benefiber into protein shakes along with fats, would that further delay the transient time of the protien shake?

Soluble fibre slows the rate of digestion...insoluble(doesnt absorb water) speeds up the time food passes through the gut
P

[Hugheser]

so like omega bread and multigrain from demsters will slow digestion?

[Praetorian]

so like omega bread and multigrain from demsters will slow digestion?

If it contains soluble fibre yes.
P

[Vitamin S]

hey P,

what is a good natural test booster product one can take with or after pct?

[Ritch]

Long time reader, first time poster... I`ve been reading about formestane for years now and want to try it in the new year. On certain U.S forums the stuff has a big following, yet you don`t hear much about it here. CEL makes a transdermal one, and IBE makes an oral version claiming very high absorption. I may give both a try and was wondering if you have any experience or feedback from formestane.

Thanks.

[waderow]

Will be going into ketosis in a month, and will be cutting for 12 weeks.

I only have one opportunity to go to the gym daily, so my lifting and cardio will be same session.

Do you recommend pre wo cardio or post?

wade

[rickyboy36]

Hey Prae,say someone tolerates really well the sides you get from clen.How high can he go without it being counter productive?I mean if the guy can tolerate 300mgs a day could he go that high if he wanted to?

Thanks!

[Praetorian]

hey P,

what is a good natural test booster product one can take with or after pct?

6-oxo is the only effective OTC test booster....if you can still find it.
P

[Praetorian]

Long time reader, first time poster... I`ve been reading about formestane for years now and want to try it in the new year. On certain U.S forums the stuff has a big following, yet you don`t hear much about it here. CEL makes a transdermal one, and IBE makes an oral version claiming very high absorption. I may give both a try and was wondering if you have any experience or feedback from formestane.

Thanks.

Ive never used it....when AI's such as aromasin and femara are readily available and are gauranteed to work I dont see the point really.
P

[Praetorian]

Will be going into ketosis in a month, and will be cutting for 12 weeks.

I only have one opportunity to go to the gym daily, so my lifting and cardio will be same session.

Do you recommend pre wo cardio or post?

wade

Cardio should be done before eating breakfast and post workout...always on an empty stomach. You dont need to be in the gym for cardio....walking outside is fine...just dress for it.
P

[Praetorian]

Hey Prae,say someone tolerates really well the sides you get from clen.How high can he go without it being counter productive?I mean if the guy can tolerate 300mgs a day could he go that high if he wanted to?

Thanks!

The idea that more is better can lead to very serious adverse health issues. Ive never gone over 150mcg per day and I dont see any point in doing so...your results will not be reflective of that dosage. Severe cardiac issues can arise because of the lowered blood pressure. 120-150mcg ED max is all that is needed to get down to a competitive level of BF.
P

[Ritch]

Ive never used it....when AI's such as aromasin and femara are readily available and are gauranteed to work I dont see the point really.
P

For sure I `ve comtemplated that myself. Especially when the supps cost you more... One guy had bloodwork showing it was equally as good as 25mg of aromasin. But what I`m hoping for at least with the transdermal formestane is the "rush" everyone talks about. I`m gonna finish up my aromasin-nolvadex pct and wait a bit then give this stuff a try some time. As always thanks for your feedback!

[ubcpower]

Hey P,
Just wanted to thank you for all your effort answering our Q's on this thread this year. Hope you and your family have a good new years.

[rickyboy36]

Hey P,
Just wanted to thank you for all your effort answering our Q's on this thread this year. Hope you and your family have a good new years.

Yes,i thank you as well!!
Happy New-Years to you and your family..

[Talo]

I've always been under the impression that cardio after your weight session was no good unless you are going to have some protein and carbs , which to me would defeat the purpose.

The idea being that a good weight session 45-90 minutes will depleat you so if you were to continue on with cardio you would be burning more muscle then fat.

Does this hold true or just a myth in your opinion ?

[Praetorian]

Yes,i thank you as well!!
Happy New-Years to you and your family..

Thanks guys same to you!
P

[Praetorian]

I've always been under the impression that cardio after your weight session was no good unless you are going to have some protein and carbs , which to me would defeat the purpose.

The idea being that a good weight session 45-90 minutes will depleat you so if you were to continue on with cardio you would be burning more muscle then fat.

Does this hold true or just a myth in your opinion ?

when dieting your glycogen stores are limited...thus training will deplete glycogen stores even more...thus when finished and doing cardio fat will be the predominant fuel used. Times of very low glycogen levels are the best for fat burning cardio(before breakfast and post workout)...this is even more effective on a keto diet because muscle is inherently spared due to an abundance of fat and ketones.
P

[rickyboy36]

Ive got two questions Prae:

Seeing cardio is good after a weight training session when doing a keto diet,how long would you do it for?My weight training sessions are about 45 mins long..

When doing cardio on an empty stomach(again on a keto diet) is it absolutely necessary to use glutamine and bcaa's before and after?Or does your stomach really have to be empty..lol.And how long would you do it for if that's all you had to do?

Thanks!!

[Vitamin S]

Hey P,

right now i can't do any cardio in mornings due to work but i can after my weights in evening. how long should i wait after doing cardio to take my PWO shake. i know when just doing weights, i can slam it as soon as i leave the gym, but i heard if doing cardio one should wait an X amount of time as the body is still burning fat before ingesting food. and what if i was shooting slin with PWO shake?

thx

[Praetorian]

Ive got two questions Prae:

Seeing cardio is good after a weight training session when doing a keto diet,how long would you do it for?My weight training sessions are about 45 mins long..

When doing cardio on an empty stomach(again on a keto diet) is it absolutely necessary to use glutamine and bcaa's before and after?Or does your stomach really have to be empty..lol.And how long would you do it for if that's all you had to do?

Thanks!!

Normally I start with 45 minute cardio sessions once per day...in the morning. As the diet progresses your body will adapt to that level so you need to gradually increase cardio...I never do more than 60minutes during one session...so as I progress i split the cardio up into two session. By the time I am 6 weeks out or so I am up to two 60 minute sessions daily...low intensity cardio....ie quick pace walk on the treadmill or outside. Glutamine is useless for muscle building or sparing...any studies youve seen on glutamine for this have all been done using glutamin IV...not oral...it is mostly destroyed in the gut prior to ever reaching the bloodstream. For glutamine to work you would need to be hooked up to an IV. BCAA's are not necessary especially on a keto deit. The body is not concerned with using protein for fuel due to the primary fuel source being ketone bodies and fatty acids. If anything BCAA's taken prior to cardio will slow fat loss.
P

[Praetorian]

Hey P,

right now i can't do any cardio in mornings due to work but i can after my weights in evening. how long should i wait after doing cardio to take my PWO shake. i know when just doing weights, i can slam it as soon as i leave the gym, but i heard if doing cardio one should wait an X amount of time as the body is still burning fat before ingesting food. and what if i was shooting slin with PWO shake?

thx

You dont need to wait at all....as soon as you are finished have your shake.
P

[rickyboy36]

Normally I start with 45 minute cardio sessions once per day...in the morning. As the diet progresses your body will adapt to that level so you need to gradually increase cardio...I never do more than 60minutes during one session...so as I progress i split the cardio up into two session. By the time I am 6 weeks out or so I am up to two 60 minute sessions daily...low intensity cardio....ie quick pace walk on the treadmill or outside. Glutamine is useless for muscle building or sparing...any studies youve seen on glutamine for this have all been done using glutamin IV...not oral...it is mostly destroyed in the gut prior to ever reaching the bloodstream. For glutamine to work you would need to be hooked up to an IV. BCAA's are not necessary especially on a keto deit. The body is not concerned with using protein for fuel due to the primary fuel source being ketone bodies and fatty acids. If anything BCAA's taken prior to cardio will slow fat loss.
P

So if i understand correctly,you do 45 mins of cardio everyday in the morning and if that happens to fall on a day that you are suppose to weightlift,then you weightlift later on that day with no cardio.As time progresses you bring it up to an hour and you add another hour to your daily cardio.So that means if im weightraining that day (say im 6 weeks out)..i would do 60 mins of cardio on an empty stomach in the morning..then come in later in the day...workout for 45 mins and then straight after do another 60 min cardio session for a total of 2hrs 45 mins of training.Is this correct?

[Praetorian]

So if i understand correctly,you do 45 mins of cardio everyday in the morning and if that happens to fall on a day that you are suppose to weightlift,then you weightlift later on that day with no cardio.As time progresses you bring it up to an hour and you add another hour to your daily cardio.So that means if im weightraining that day (say im 6 weeks out)..i would do 60 mins of cardio on an empty stomach in the morning..then come in later in the day...workout for 45 mins and then straight after do another 60 min cardio session for a total of 2hrs 45 mins of training.Is this correct?

Yep you got it...start cardo sessions in the morning...at 45mins...then gradually add say 10 mintues every week to two weeks....until you hit 60 mins. Then split the sessions up. So if i was doing an hour in the morning I would then add 10 minutes so now im doing 70 minutes but split into 35 and 35 morning and post workout. Then you can add 5 minutes to each session every week or two until you hit 60 minutes for each session.
So as you say youll be doing 2hrs and 45 minutes of total training.
P

[tiramisu]

2 hours a day on the treadmill sounds dreadful. How do you keep it interesting?

[rickyboy36]

2 hours a day on the treadmill sounds dreadful. How do you keep it interesting?

if you're in luck your gym has a tv or nice women around workin out..hahaha

[rickyboy36]

I have a question about when comming OFF from a keto diet.A lot of people say that this is a very good time to make excellent gains because your insulin sensitivity is really high and your body is in a state where it will shuttle everything to the muscles.

In you opinion,how long does this window of opportunity last(in weeks)?And second,what do you do "special" in order for all this to workout?I would imagine a big carbload would be one(first 3 days).But how would your workouts and nutrition be?

Thanks again!!

[tiramisu]

Yet another clen question (god I hate clen). Would you start clen at the beginning of a 16 week cutting cycle or wait until upping the cardio was no longer effective.... Or would it depend more on the target weight loss than anything else?

[Praetorian]

Hey Prae

So, somewhere's on the site (I forget where).. there was mention that it takes 3-4 days to reach ketosis. True/False? If I'm not mistaken.. the once a week cheat meal would throw you out of ketosis? Therefore.. In the run of a week, wouldn't you only be in ketosis a max of 3 days? 4 if your dialed in? It just seems like it wouldn't compare to a low carb diet where every day you could use up your glycogen stores in workout, then catabolize fat during cardio post workout.. Just a thought..

Thanks!

It takes approx 72 hours to get into ketosis once carbs are removed from the diet. Once you are in ketosis it takes approx another two weeks for the body to not want to switch back to glucose even if carbs are eaten...ie cheat meal. The once per week cheat meal wil knock you out of ketosis for approx 8 hours. Remember you cannot fully restore liver and muscle glycogen with one meal thus you dont need another 72 hours to re-enter ketosis...only about 8 hours. Thus compared to a low carb diet where glucose is the primary fuel and fatty acids are not...the majority of the time glucose is being burned...a person in ketosis is using fat for fuel 24/7 less 8 hours....what appears more efficient?
P

[Praetorian]

I have a question about when comming OFF from a keto diet.A lot of people say that this is a very good time to make excellent gains because your insulin sensitivity is really high and your body is in a state where it will shuttle everything to the muscles.

In you opinion,how long does this window of opportunity last(in weeks)?And second,what do you do "special" in order for all this to workout?I would imagine a big carbload would be one(first 3 days).But how would your workouts and nutrition be?

Thanks again!!

Coming off a keto diet or a low carb diet(both increase insulin sensitivity) is one of the best times to make gains. The window last approx 6 weeks....ive timed it myself every single precontest diet and it works out to 40-42 days almost to a T. Gorging on carbs however is not the answer and will lead to health issues...ie peripheral edema...(possible cardiac arrrest) not good. Carbs will need to be added back to the diet in a very controlled manner(every other meal at first)...the key is to eat frequent but smaller meals and feed the body consistently. Training will have to be gradually increased in intensity as well....the body is very easily injured if heavy weights are added too early...not much joint support etc...add them slowly but consistently...take a good joint supp as well...taper off T3 and clen, drop all aas except test.
P

[Praetorian]

Yet another clen question (god I hate clen). Would you start clen at the beginning of a 16 week cutting cycle or wait until upping the cardio was no longer effective.... Or would it depend more on the target weight loss than anything else?

Both clen and T3 should be started day one of a 16 week diet and run right thru the contest....then taper off.
P

[rickyboy36]

Coming off a keto diet or a low carb diet(both increase insulin sensitivity) is one of the best times to make gains. The window last approx 6 weeks....ive timed it myself every single precontest diet and it works out to 40-42 days almost to a T. Gorging on carbs however is not the answer and will lead to health issues...ie peripheral edema...(possible cardiac arrrest) not good. Carbs will need to be added back to the diet in a very controlled manner(every other meal at first)...the key is to eat frequent but smaller meals and feed the body consistently. Training will have to be gradually increased in intensity as well....the body is very easily injured if heavy weights are added too early...not much joint support etc...add them slowly but consistently...take a good joint supp as well...taper off T3 and clen, drop all aas except test.
P

Tell me then..if someone was to go on a keto diet say for 4 weeks..then train 6 weeks after and then back onto a keto diet,could he make exceptional gains?Or does the keto diet have to be longer?

[Praetorian]

Tell me then..if someone was to go on a keto diet say for 4 weeks..then train 6 weeks after and then back onto a keto diet,could he make exceptional gains?Or does the keto diet have to be longer?

No you need to be on a diet including keto for a much longer time to get the necessary rebound effect...12-16 weeks.
P

[btufts]

So P, breaking up your carb meal into your last 2 or 3 meals of the day would only make your body want to use those carbs instead of storing them?

[natenator]

Question. I enountered a woman who wants to give keto a go but she has problems digesting fats. She had her gallbladder out but still experiences pain when eating fat without any carbs. She's tried keto before but always stopes due to the pains due to the fat intake.

Any suggestions on how to deal with such a person?

Thanks bud :)

[Praetorian]

So P, breaking up your carb meal into your last 2 or 3 meals of the day would only make your body want to use those carbs instead of storing them?

It is never a good idea to have your carbs the last few meals of the day...the ealier meals would be much better. If you are dieting then the last few meals would be carb free if on a low carb diet. The body will use carbs for fuel if it needs them...ie you are doing something physical...if you eat then later on during the day and dont do anything physical they will be stored.
P

[Praetorian]

Question. I enountered a woman who wants to give keto a go but she has problems digesting fats. She had her gallbladder out but still experiences pain when eating fat without any carbs. She's tried keto before but always stopes due to the pains due to the fat intake.

Any suggestions on how to deal with such a person?

Thanks bud :)

How much fat was in her keto diet? When you say carbs do you mean starchy or fibrous? Does she still get pain with fibrous only?
P

[Praetorian]

Hey P!

I've read many contradicting articles on going off of t3. Some say extended use over 6 weeks is dangerous and can cause permanent damage in terms of thyroid function, others say it can be used for months on end and function will return within a month or two at most. What do you believe?

Thanks!

Permanent thyroid damage from the use of T3 is a myth perpetuated by many uneducated people within the iron sport. Unless you have an underlying thyroid issue or use very high dosages it is very unlikley you will ever shut down your thyroid permanently. There are many studies that show women misdiagnosed with hypothyroidism who were prescribed thyroid meds for many years (10-20) after realizing the mistake they were taken off the medication and all of their thyroid functions returned to normal after 2-4 weeks. The endocrine system works in feed back loops...if more thyroid is seen in the blood then the body reduces endo thyroid production. Once the exo thyroid is removed then so is the negative feed back loop...hence thyroid production returns to normal. For men there is no need to go above 75mcg daily....for women 50mcg daily. A 16 week diet/cycle is perfectly fine...then taper off.
P

[natenator]

How much fat was in her keto diet? When you say carbs do you mean starchy or fibrous? Does she still get pain with fibrous only?
P
I can't say for sure how much fat was in there when she originally tried it but she did mention she found a palumbo template for a woman online somewhere.

Fiberous or starchy with less fat does not seem to pose an issue. Basicaly your typical low carb approach.

I cN try and get more details if you wish?

[Praetorian]

I can't say for sure how much fat was in there when she originally tried it but she did mention she found a palumbo template for a woman online somewhere.

Fiberous or starchy with less fat does not seem to pose an issue. Basicaly your typical low carb approach.

I cN try and get more details if you wish?

Id like to see the diet if you can get it.
P

[btufts]

It is never a good idea to have your carbs the last few meals of the day...the ealier meals would be much better. If you are dieting then the last few meals would be carb free if on a low carb diet. The body will use carbs for fuel if it needs them...ie you are doing something physical...if you eat then later on during the day and dont do anything physical they will be stored.
P

Sorry for the confusion, i meant doing the keto diet and on your refeed meal could you break it up within the last couple meals instead of one giant carb meal?

[Praetorian]

Sorry for the confusion, i meant doing the keto diet and on your refeed meal could you break it up within the last couple meals instead of one giant carb meal?

It is much more effective to have one cheat meal and make it the last meal of the day. On a keto diet you will not store the carbs as fat...they will go directly to replace muscle glycogen. The single larger meal creates more of a shock to the system effectively increasing T4 to T3 conversion.
P

[btufts]

It is much more effective to have one cheat meal and make it the last meal of the day. On a keto diet you will not store the carbs as fat...they will go directly to replace muscle glycogen. The single larger meal creates more of a shock to the system effectively increasing T4 to T3 conversion.
P


T4 to T3 conversion will increase metabolism correct? And excess T4 storage will eventually convert to RT3? this is bad right? I'm still learning this thyroid hormone stuff lol

[Praetorian]

T4 to T3 conversion will increase metabolism correct? And excess T4 storage will eventually convert to RT3? this is bad right? I'm still learning this thyroid hormone stuff lol

Yes in increase in T4 to T3 conversion creates more active thyroid..hence an increase in metabolism. Converting excess T4 into RT3 is not a bad thing as it prevents hyperthyroidism because the Thyroid will continue to produce T4.

T3 represents approximately 20% of thyroid hormones found in the body. When the body has enough T3 available, any excess T4 remaining in reserve, will be rendered inactive by the conversion of it into “Reverse T3” (RT3). This process is ongoing due to the fact that the thyroid gland continues to absorb iodine from things consumed in the diet, from which to continue producing hormones. In the case of T4 being converted into RT3, one iodine atom is removed from the inner ring of the iodine molecules. This process which also occurs mainly in the liver and kidneys is a safe-guard against over-stimulation of bodily metabolism from an excess of T3 hormone or “hyperthyroidism”

P

[btufts]

Yes in increase in T4 to T3 conversion creates more active thyroid..hence an increase in metabolism. Converting excess T4 into RT3 is not a bad thing as it prevents hyperthyroidism because the Thyroid will continue to produce T4.

T3 represents approximately 20% of thyroid hormones found in the body. When the body has enough T3 available, any excess T4 remaining in reserve, will be rendered inactive by the conversion of it into “Reverse T3” (RT3). This process is ongoing due to the fact that the thyroid gland continues to absorb iodine from things consumed in the diet, from which to continue producing hormones. In the case of T4 being converted into RT3, one iodine atom is removed from the inner ring of the iodine molecules. This process which also occurs mainly in the liver and kidneys is a safe-guard against over-stimulation of bodily metabolism from an excess of T3 hormone or “hyperthyroidism”

P


lol yeah i just read that actually, thats where i got that from

[rickyboy36]

It is never a good idea to have your carbs the last few meals of the day...the ealier meals would be much better. If you are dieting then the last few meals would be carb free if on a low carb diet. The body will use carbs for fuel if it needs them...ie you are doing something physical...if you eat then later on during the day and dont do anything physical they will be stored.
P

Hey Prae..couldnt someone have veggies and salad at this time though?These are carbs,but very slow digesting ones and will be used almost instantly as they arrive into the blood stream..right?

I was also wondering why we couldnt have a 4hour cheat if you will to COMPLETELY load up for training the following days.There has been research shoing that any amount of carbs can be eaten in a time frame of 4 hours without any spilling.Instead of having 500grams of carbs like you mentioned,we'd load up with 900grams.Of course for t3 purposes we would shock our body by eating alot of that in one sitting,but then eat the rest a bit later on.Now in a sense i know why you dont want to do this.Its because you want to get back into ketosis quickly.But i have a trick for that.The following day when i get up,i inject 2-3uis if humulin-r and eat my normal fat and protein meal.I then continue to inject evry 3rd hour in the same manner for a total of 3 injections.This way, and in a very SAFE MANNER,im back in ketosis in no time and have full of energy to workout.Plus no fat has been stored durin these injections because of the small amount of insulin in my body.Its just enough to empty the glycogen thats in my liver.Your thoughts??

Do you deplete your body by doing whole body workouts before your cheat meal?Again research shows that when depleting your body before a carbup more CARBS can enter the muscles without spilling.This of course would be utilized if ever a 900 gram carb protocol would be used like i pointed out above:)

[Praetorian]

Hey Prae..couldnt someone have veggies and salad at this time though?These are carbs,but very slow digesting ones and will be used almost instantly as they arrive into the blood stream..right?

I was also wondering why we couldnt have a 4hour cheat if you will to COMPLETELY load up for training the following days.There has been research shoing that any amount of carbs can be eaten in a time frame of 4 hours without any spilling.Instead of having 500grams of carbs like you mentioned,we'd load up with 900grams.Of course for t3 purposes we would shock our body by eating alot of that in one sitting,but then eat the rest a bit later on.Now in a sense i know why you dont want to do this.Its because you want to get back into ketosis quickly.But i have a trick for that.The following day when i get up,i inject 2-3uis if humulin-r and eat my normal fat and protein meal.I then continue to inject evry 3rd hour in the same manner for a total of 3 injections.This way, and in a very SAFE MANNER,im back in ketosis in no time and have full of energy to workout.Plus no fat has been stored durin these injections because of the small amount of insulin in my body.Its just enough to empty the glycogen thats in my liver.Your thoughts??

Do you deplete your body by doing whole body workouts before your cheat meal?Again research shows that when depleting your body before a carbup more CARBS can enter the muscles without spilling.This of course would be utilized if ever a 900 gram carb protocol would be used like i pointed out above:)

On a low carb type diet the latter meals can be fibrous carbs yes. On a keto diet no because that many carbs would still be too much for the day. On a keto diet you still have to limit total carbs to 50g or less. Any amount of carbs eaten whether it be fibrous or starchy will still be converted to fat by the liver if glycogen stores are full.
When it comes to the cheat meal over doing things will not help you. Over eating carbs and using insulin will still deposit fat if it is eaten during that time...2-3 iu doesnt matter. Also the idea is not to fully replenish glycogen stores because then it will take too long to get back into ketosis...insulin or not. Insulin only removes glucose from the blood stream it does not use up muscle or liver glycogen. Keep it simple and you will see much better results...one cheat meal to replace the last meal of the day once per week max 500g carbs.
There is no need to deplete your body with ful lbody workouts while on a keto diet...you are already depleted...hence ketosis.
P

[rickyboy36]

On a low carb type diet the latter meals can be fibrous carbs yes. On a keto diet no because that many carbs would still be too much for the day. On a keto diet you still have to limit total carbs to 50g or less. Any amount of carbs eaten whether it be fibrous or starchy will still be converted to fat by the liver if glycogen stores are full.
When it comes to the cheat meal over doing things will not help you. Over eating carbs and using insulin will still deposit fat if it is eaten during that time...2-3 iu doesnt matter. Also the idea is not to fully replenish glycogen stores because then it will take too long to get back into ketosis...insulin or not. Insulin only removes glucose from the blood stream it does not use up muscle or liver glycogen. Keep it simple and you will see much better results...one cheat meal to replace the last meal of the day once per week max 500g carbs.
There is no need to deplete your body with ful lbody workouts while on a keto diet...you are already depleted...hence ketosis.
P

You are right about insulin taking up whats in the blood and shuttles it to muscles and what have you..but once theres nothing more in the blood..the liver slowly empties itself out(its response to feeding the brain and heart)Once empty, ketosis is acheived so therefore you arrive at it much faster.

As for the depletion part..even in ketosis you are not completley depleted..I think it was Dan Duchaine and Lyle Mc donald who said depletion Guarantees no spillover no matter how many carbs are eaten in the first 4 hours following the workout.So i figured if this was true why not maximize the load while at the same time,not compromising the time it takes to get back into ketosis if the insulin protocol is followed

Actually the question is..would 300-400 grams make a difference in a calorie deficient state anyways?You wil have more energy,but you will also have more calories in you..

[natenator]

Id like to see the diet if you can get it.
P
Here you go sir:

Meal 1 - 2 whole, 6 egg whites 6:30

Meal 2 - 35g whey isolate, 1tbsp natural peanut butter 9:30

Meal 3 - 5oz chicken/turkey/tilapia with 1/4 cup (1oz) cashew, almonds or walnuts 12:30

Meal 4 - 5oz salmon or inside round with a green salad w/ 1tsp olive oil and vinegar OR 1 cup broccoli. 3:30

Meal 5 - 35g whey isolate, 1 tbsp natural peanut butter. OR. 2 whole, 6 egg whites. 6:30

Meat is raw weights.

[z83]

Hi P,

Is Palumbo 250lbs+ the best diet to keep muscle/loose bf ?
I'm sick of bulking and would like to see what's under the bloated look.
Gear assisted for the diet. (Test E and maybe very low dose of tren A...first time tren)

Thanks

z83

[Praetorian]

You are right about insulin taking up whats in the blood and shuttles it to muscles and what have you..but once theres nothing more in the blood..the liver slowly empties itself out(its response to feeding the brain and heart)Once empty, ketosis is acheived so therefore you arrive at it much faster.

As for the depletion part..even in ketosis you are not completley depleted..I think it was Dan Duchaine and Lyle Mc donald who said depletion Guarantees no spillover no matter how many carbs are eaten in the first 4 hours following the workout.So i figured if this was true why not maximize the load while at the same time,not compromising the time it takes to get back into ketosis if the insulin protocol is followed

Actually the question is..would 300-400 grams make a difference in a calorie deficient state anyways?You wil have more energy,but you will also have more calories in you..

The liver is the last place to be replenished with glycogen when the cheat meal is eaten. As well the liver is not fast enough to refill blood glucose levels enough to avoid hypoglycemia.
From the cheat meal the carbs eaten go to replenish muscle glycogen first. Insulin will remove glucose from the blood but not muscle glycogen. Glucagon is necessary for the liver to release glucose back into the blood...glucagon will only be present when insulin is low. ketosis is depletion of glycogen otherwise the body would readily use glucose for fuel as it is much preferred. If would take two to three days to fully replenish glycogen stores...and that would keep you out of ketosis for much too long even with insulin. Using insulin also as mentioned above reduces glucagon and thus fat burning.
Again overdoing the cheat meal will slow fat loss. Running this diet time and time again the best results come from a max of 500g carbs....ive tried more, ive tried multiple meal, ive tried insulin, cheat days etc...from experience 500g works best.
P

[Praetorian]

Here you go sir:

Meal 1 - 2 whole, 6 egg whites 6:30

Meal 2 - 35g whey isolate, 1tbsp natural peanut butter 9:30

Meal 3 - 5oz chicken/turkey/tilapia with 1/4 cup (1oz) cashew, almonds or walnuts 12:30

Meal 4 - 5oz salmon or inside round with a green salad w/ 1tsp olive oil and vinegar OR 1 cup broccoli. 3:30

Meal 5 - 35g whey isolate, 1 tbsp natural peanut butter. OR. 2 whole, 6 egg whites. 6:30

Meat is raw weights.

The issue with someone without a gallbladder is saturated fats. If you replace the saturated fats with essential fats she shoudl be fine. I have a client running a very similar diet who has also had her gallbladder removed and she has no issues. Also use a 2-2 method so two days use the above diet (no saturated fats) and then two day use a pro/veg diet. Essential fat scan be stored so that can also be an issue.
MEAL #1
10 Egg Whites

MEAL #2
SHAKE: 35g Whey Protein + fiberlyze

MEAL #3
“Lean Protein Meal”: 6oz chicken (or turkey, or tuna, or tilapia, flounder, sole or cod) +
1 cup green beans (or asparagus or cucumbers)

MEAL #4
“Lean Protein Meal”: 6oz whitefish (or chicken, or turkey, or tuna, or tilapia, flounder, sole or cod) + a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) or 1 cup green beans + lemon juice or vinegar

MEAL #5
SHAKE: 35g Whey Protein + fiberlyze OR 10 Egg Whites

P

[Praetorian]

Hi P,

Is Palumbo 250lbs+ the best diet to keep muscle/loose bf ?
I'm sick of bulking and would like to see what's under the bloated look.
Gear assisted for the diet. (Test E and maybe very low dose of tren A...first time tren)

Thanks

z83

Yes IMO a keto diet like DP is the most efficient way of dieting to remove fat and preserve muscle mass. The 250lb+ diet may be too much for you depending on how much you weigh and how much muscle you carrry. AAS are not necessary on this diet but will work fine...500 test weekly is all that is needed.
P

[waderow]

P,
I often awake with numb arms. Usually my Ulnar nerve gets compressed when I sleep due to sleeping position. When I am lighter I sleep much better, but right now I am 255 and if I dont sleep on stomach, I will wake the neighborhood.
Anyways.... is this common with BBers? Anythign you can do? Can this hinder gains in arms?

[Praetorian]

P,
I often awake with numb arms. Usually my Ulnar nerve gets compressed when I sleep due to sleeping position. When I am lighter I sleep much better, but right now I am 255 and if I dont sleep on stomach, I will wake the neighborhood.
Anyways.... is this common with BBers? Anythign you can do? Can this hinder gains in arms?

I have the same issue...if i sleep on my back i snore like crazy plus I fnd it difficult to sleep soundly on my back. I prefer the fetal position...wiht a good pillow and stretch the arms out.
I think this is quite common with BB due to the size of their delts and arms. It wont hinder arm gains no.
P

[rickyboy36]

The liver is the last place to be replenished with glycogen when the cheat meal is eaten. As well the liver is not fast enough to refill blood glucose levels enough to avoid hypoglycemia.
From the cheat meal the carbs eaten go to replenish muscle glycogen first. Insulin will remove glucose from the blood but not muscle glycogen. Glucagon is necessary for the liver to release glucose back into the blood...glucagon will only be present when insulin is low. ketosis is depletion of glycogen otherwise the body would readily use glucose for fuel as it is much preferred. If would take two to three days to fully replenish glycogen stores...and that would keep you out of ketosis for much too long even with insulin. Using insulin also as mentioned above reduces glucagon and thus fat burning.
Again overdoing the cheat meal will slow fat loss. Running this diet time and time again the best results come from a max of 500g carbs....ive tried more, ive tried multiple meal, ive tried insulin, cheat days etc...from experience 500g works best.
P

Thank you sir!I will indeed try this method.The thing is though i started my keto diet saturday(took 12 days off for the holidays).Do you recommend 2 weeks before my first cheat meal?.And second..do you do full body workouts the next day to take advantage of the glycogen storage..or do you do the one/two muscle a day workout spread out through the week.

Thanks again!!

[z83]

Yes IMO a keto diet like DP is the most efficient way of dieting to remove fat and preserve muscle mass. The 250lb+ diet may be too much for you depending on how much you weigh and how much muscle you carrry. AAS are not necessary on this diet but will work fine...500 test weekly is all that is needed.
P

very close to 250...the 250lbs diet is already very little food isn't it ?

[Praetorian]

Thank you sir!I will indeed try this method.The thing is though i started my keto diet saturday(took 12 days off for the holidays).Do you recommend 2 weeks before my first cheat meal?.And second..do you do full body workouts the next day to take advantage of the glycogen storage..or do you do the one/two muscle a day workout spread out through the week.

Thanks again!!

Yes take two weeks prior to the cheat meal otherwise you will find it difficult to get back into ketosis. No I just do my regualr workout..one muscle group per day plus abs or calves.
P

[Praetorian]

very close to 250...the 250lbs diet is already very little food isn't it ?

The 250lb diet is enough food for a 300lb BB to diet on. It is meant for someone who is carrying plenty of lean muscle...if you are close to 250lbs it would be too much for you...drop the protein to 7oz and the PB to 1.5 Tbsp and muts 1/3 cup only.
P

[z83]

The 250lb diet is enough food for a 300lb BB to diet on. It is meant for someone who is carrying plenty of lean muscle...if you are close to 250lbs it would be too much for you...drop the protein to 7oz and the PB to 1.5 Tbsp and muts 1/3 cup only.
P

i'm modifying the 200lbs or 250lbs+ diet ?

Thanks for the help P, highly appreciated

[Praetorian]

i'm modifying the 200lbs or 250lbs+ diet ?

Thanks for the help P, highly appreciated

The 200lb diet.
P

[phatty]

hey p i am currently dieting for a provincial show at the end of april 2010. my trainer gave me the option of taking epo for then next 12 weeks. he said it wasnt necessary but can be beneficial especially for bigger guys. i would be taking accupril with it for blood pressure. what are your thoughts on it.

[rickyboy36]

While on a keto diet,you say we should continue to lift heavy.But as you know,its very hard to get the same poundages that were doing when bulking.Now say i was benching 300lbs for 8 when bulking..i should be aiming for what weight on a keto diet in order to not lose muscle??

Thanks!

[jamex]

Also interested in some clarity on training during keto.

Previously I would do a 3 day split M-F, which would mean some bodyparts got worked out twice a week and the following week only once etc. After losing some strength on keto I thought I would try to give more recovery time. Would a static schedule training bodyparts once per week on the same day each week be alright?

After hearing that its futile to try and grow while dieting it seems pointless to go overboard on training. I recall your advice is to go less heavy and for higher reps and\or sets? Is it a copout to reduce volume if you're not trying to grow?

Thanks.

[btufts]

While on a keto diet,you say we should continue to lift heavy.But as you know,its very hard to get the same poundages that were doing when bulking.Now say i was benching 300lbs for 8 when bulking..i should be aiming for what weight on a keto diet in order to not lose muscle??

Thanks!


do what ever you can so you can still get between 6-10 reps

[Praetorian]

hey p i am currently dieting for a provincial show at the end of april 2010. my trainer gave me the option of taking epo for then next 12 weeks. he said it wasnt necessary but can be beneficial especially for bigger guys. i would be taking accupril with it for blood pressure. what are your thoughts on it.

Definitely not...there is very little positive effects for a BB with EPO but there are some very nasty sides...blood clots, kidney damage etc...not something to mess with. If you are going to take anything that is not OTC then I would suggest a simple test cycle...much more effective and almost no risk.
The question you should ask your trainer is what is the purpose in a BB persepective to take EPO? and why would it help bigger guys? I dont see any logic in taking EPO as a BB as there are much safer and more effective compounds out there. EPO is/was exclusively used as a performance enhancing drug for aerobic sports...ie cycling, long distance running etc It is not an androgen thus will not spare muscle tissue and it is not anabolic to any significant degree.
P

[natenator]

I cannot believe a trainer would ever recommend EPO for bodybuilding purposes!

[Praetorian]

While on a keto diet,you say we should continue to lift heavy.But as you know,its very hard to get the same poundages that were doing when bulking.Now say i was benching 300lbs for 8 when bulking..i should be aiming for what weight on a keto diet in order to not lose muscle??

Thanks!

When dieting i continue to train heavy but some strength decreases are seen in the first few weeks due to leverage (water loss) then it tends to stabalize and sometimes increases a bit. I dont let reps fall below 5-6 range so if they are I will lighten the weight slightly....that would be on my first heavy set.
I try to do 3 sets first 5-6, second 7-8 third 9-10.
P

[Praetorian]

Also interested in some clarity on training during keto.

Previously I would do a 3 day split M-F, which would mean some bodyparts got worked out twice a week and the following week only once etc. After losing some strength on keto I thought I would try to give more recovery time. Would a static schedule training bodyparts once per week on the same day each week be alright?

After hearing that its futile to try and grow while dieting it seems pointless to go overboard on training. I recall your advice is to go less heavy and for higher reps and\or sets? Is it a copout to reduce volume if you're not trying to grow?

Thanks.

First off while on keto you have limited glycogen stores and you need to use them for training. That is why it is very difficult to train more then one muscle group daily. I would recommend a 5 day split with two days off and train each muscle group once per week. ie chest, back, off, delts, arms, legs off.
You want to keep the weight as heavy as possible without going lower then 5-6 reps on your first set. If you are only getting 3-4 reps the weight is too heavy...too much of a risk of injury. The idea is to maintain as much strength as possible while dieting...so dont lower the weights just because you start dieting...only lower them slightly when its absolutely necessary. Volume may need to be reduced depending on what it was offseason. I do three working sets per exercise on average.
P

[btufts]

P, as of now, on the keto diet i've been doing a 4 day split. chest/back, delts/traps, arms, legs then 2 days off. I do 3 sets of 3 exercises 6-10 reps for everything. each workout starts with one of the big 3 (bench,deads,squats) depending on the day, then 2 other exercises depending on what part of the muscle i'm trying to stress most. is this sounding good for doing the keto diet as i'm getting great results so far.

[Praetorian]

P, as of now, on the keto diet i've been doing a 4 day split. chest/back, delts/traps, arms, legs then 2 days off. I do 3 sets of 3 exercises 6-10 reps for everything. each workout starts with one of the big 3 (bench,deads,squats) depending on the day, then 2 other exercises depending on what part of the muscle i'm trying to stress most. is this sounding good for doing the keto diet as i'm getting great results so far.

Chest and back (two large bodyparts) on the same day while on a keto diet is not good. If you want to do a four day split then switch it to chest/tris, back/bis, delts/traps, and legs.
P

[tiramisu]

I'm still DC'ing and just started my keto diet, any problem in waiting till things get ugly before I modify my program?

Last season I found my stamina had dropped off pretty dramatically by about week 8 but I was able to keep pushing heavy with slightly decreased stamina till then. I struggled with finding a program that was productive I basically put in my time and tread water but it was very ad hoc between week 12 and 20 last year so the last couple of posts are pretty interesting to me.

[rickyboy36]

When dieting i continue to train heavy but some strength decreases are seen in the first few weeks due to leverage (water loss) then it tends to stabalize and sometimes increases a bit. I dont let reps fall below 5-6 range so if they are I will lighten the weight slightly....that would be on my first heavy set.
I try to do 3 sets first 5-6, second 7-8 third 9-10.
P

Ok,but seeing your body is vulnerable to injury during dieting,wouldnt it be safer by starting first set with 9-10reps..then so on?Or do you do warmup sets before getting doing the heavy work first??

And how many exercises do you do on average per muscle?

Thanks again Prae!!!

[btufts]

Chest and back (two large bodyparts) on the same day while on a keto diet is not good. If you want to do a four day split then switch it to chest/tris, back/bis, delts/traps, and legs.
P

Ahhh thats what i have been doing for so long i became bored of it lol what will happen if i train chest back together run out of fuel and begin using amino acids? also i've gained about 3 pounds since last week is this kind of fluctuation normal? i still see progress everyday

[Praetorian]

I'm still DC'ing and just started my keto diet, any problem in waiting till things get ugly before I modify my program?

Last season I found my stamina had dropped off pretty dramatically by about week 8 but I was able to keep pushing heavy with slightly decreased stamina till then. I struggled with finding a program that was productive I basically put in my time and tread water but it was very ad hoc between week 12 and 20 last year so the last couple of posts are pretty interesting to me.

DC on keto should be fine...you just have to watch total volume daily...if it is too high you may have to split the workout up into multiple days.
P

[Praetorian]

Ok,but seeing your body is vulnerable to injury during dieting,wouldnt it be safer by starting first set with 9-10reps..then so on?Or do you do warmup sets before getting doing the heavy work first??

And how many exercises do you do on average per muscle?

Thanks again Prae!!!

Definitely you need to warm up prior to any heavy sets...the sets i posted are working only...after warming up. Once you are warmed up your first set should be heavy in the rep range of 5-6. Large mucle groups 4 exercises and smaller muscle groups 3 exercises.
P

[Praetorian]

Ahhh thats what i have been doing for so long i became bored of it lol what will happen if i train chest back together run out of fuel and begin using amino acids? also i've gained about 3 pounds since last week is this kind of fluctuation normal? i still see progress everyday

I would advise against that...you need to separate large bodyparts to be able to utilize limited glycogen stores efficiently. Create a different workout if you liek but keep large body parts separate.
P

[Vitamin S]

P,

is it bad to have a banana post workout with a protein shake? iknow its not dextrose but fructose but is it that bad? will it slow gains make u fat?

[dremen]

Praetorian what is your take on a cycle that includes test/tren/deca?

I myself have trid in the past and LOVED it so i have first hand knowlege of it and no gyno, but others here seem to think im a total ****ing moron and they find it taboo.

I think there are WAY to many people on the bbing boards who just spit out information based on all the current trains of thought and don't really have any FIRSTHAND experiance with certian compounds so should'nt speak against em.

I would like to hear what u have to say about this.

Thank you.

[Praetorian]

P,

is it bad to have a banana post workout with a protein shake? iknow its not dextrose but fructose but is it that bad? will it slow gains make u fat?

Fruit does not illicit a significant insulin response like a high GI carbohydrate. It also goes directly to the liver and to fill liver glycogen stores first or is converted to triglycerides. Fruit does contain sucrose and glucose but very limited amounts. A high GI carb ie dextrose, malto, or waxy maize is preferred. I prefer waxy maize because the transit time is much faster then dextrose and it does not pull water into the gut like dextrose does. Also dextrose does have the ability to deposit fat on carb sensitive people very easily.
P

[Praetorian]

Praetorian what is your take on a cycle that includes test/tren/deca?

I myself have trid in the past and LOVED it so i have first hand knowlege of it and no gyno, but others here seem to think im a total ****ing moron and they find it taboo.

I think there are WAY to many people on the bbing boards who just spit out information based on all the current trains of thought and don't really have any FIRSTHAND experiance with certian compounds so should'nt speak against em.

I would like to hear what u have to say about this.

Thank you.

Its actually one of my favourite cycles. I have never experienced any negative sides with those compounds and I have run them multiple times together in the last ten years. If you are gyno prone then keep an AI on hand and possibly nolvadex. The fear of prolactin issues is very overblown and I have yet to experience any or have any client experience any as long as estrogen was kept in check. The only thing to keep in mind is PCT will need to be slightly more aggressive...ie HCG will definitely be required. You have to remember as well that sides are dose dependant...many guys run way too much gear and then run into issues and blame the cycle or the compounds...more is not always better.
P

[dremen]

Its actually one of my favourite cycles. I have never experienced any negative sides with those compounds and I have run them multiple times together in the last ten years. If you are gyno prone then keep an AI on hand and possibly nolvadex. The fear of prolactin issues is very overblown and I have yet to experience any or have any client experience any as long as estrogen was kept in check. The only thing to keep in mind is PCT will need to be slightly more aggressive...ie HCG will definitely be required. You have to remember as well that sides are dose dependant...many guys run way too much gear and then run into issues and blame the cycle or the compounds...more is not always better.
P

Damn bro thank you that's just what i wanted to hear. I admit i talk a lot about runing more gear then needed, but that's just me dreaming.....lol

In reality when i DO decide to run a test/tren/deca cycle it will look like this, 150mg/test-eod, 75mg/tren-eod, 75mg/npp-eod.

Like u said before aromasin and nolva should be on hand to control estrogen if needed AND if estrogen is kept in check chances are very good there will be no prolactin issues.

Very glad to have a guy here like you who gives advice based on first hand knowledge and not here say.

[Praetorian]

The issue with someone without a gallbladder is saturated fats. If you replace the saturated fats with essential fats she shoudl be fine. I have a client running a very similar diet who has also had her gallbladder removed and she has no issues. Also use a 2-2 method so two days use the above diet (no saturated fats) and then two day use a pro/veg diet. Essential fat scan be stored so that can also be an issue.
MEAL #1
10 Egg Whites

MEAL #2
SHAKE: 35g Whey Protein + fiberlyze

MEAL #3
“Lean Protein Meal”: 6oz chicken (or turkey, or tuna, or tilapia, flounder, sole or cod) +
1 cup green beans (or asparagus or cucumbers)

MEAL #4
“Lean Protein Meal”: 6oz whitefish (or chicken, or turkey, or tuna, or tilapia, flounder, sole or cod) + a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) or 1 cup green beans + lemon juice or vinegar

MEAL #5
SHAKE: 35g Whey Protein + fiberlyze OR 10 Egg Whites

P

Also it would beneficial to have her take a digestive enzyme with each meal.
P

[rickyboy36]

Fruit does not illicit a significant insulin response like a high GI carbohydrate. It also goes directly to the liver and to fill liver glycogen stores first or is converted to triglycerides. Fruit does contain sucrose and glucose but very limited amounts. A high GI carb ie dextrose, malto, or waxy maize is preferred. I prefer waxy maize because the transit time is much faster then dextrose and it does not pull water into the gut like dextrose does. Also dextrose does have the ability to deposit fat on carb sensitive people very easily.
P

Prae..someone who is carb sensetive..how may carbs a day do you recommend taking in.The reason why i ask is because i want to try something new with my diet the next time I start bulking.I want to "time" my carbs(using insulin) around my weight training and take advanatge of the strenght and glycogen replenshing along with protein synthesis it gives me.But at the same time,I seem to get water in my gut and bloat up a bit with carbs especially later on in my diet.Heres a layout of what i want to try:

Say on average i need 350 grams of carbs on weight training days and 250grams on non training days for an average of 300 a day for a total of 600 grams over the course of 2 days.Now what i would like to do is this:

Meal 1-100g(8ui's of Hum-R)(oatmeal(50carbs) and bread with some sugary spread for another 50 grams of carbs)
Meal 2-50g
Meal 3- 50g(4ui's of Hum-R)
Meal 4-50g
Meal 5-Preworkout 100grams of gatorade..but now i feel like trying waxi maze like you pointed out earlier(humalog 10uis.And yes,i am careful and have had incredible gains using it preworkout.But to switch things up I go with it PWO as well.So pre workout half is sipped 15 mins before training..and the other half is sipped slowly during training
TRAIN
Meal 5-75grams(solid meal)
meal 6-25 grams(slow burning carbs(veggies and a salad))

Next day:
Meal 1-75grams
meal 2- 75grams
Meal 3 to 6..NO carbs..just fat and protein

Days that i train i will eat very minimul amount of fat(the fats i do eat will be good fats lke omega 3 and 6) and save alot of it on the days that i dont train .I will do cardio on non weight days however but not very intense.Fast walking at the most for 30 mins..just to keep water retention off

First..do you think 300 grams of carbs on average is too much for a carb sensitive person?

Second,do you like the set up that i have with the carbs and insulin around my workouts?

Third,I would only use insulin 3 times a week for about 4 weeks total.But what i want to know is Once i get off insulin,will my normal production and sensitivity be back to normal?Or do I have to do alot of "low carb" days to get it back to where it was:).I ask because it always seems that after 4 weeks of bulking(with insulin or not) i tend to bloat alot more cause of my sensitivity to carbs

Thanks!!

[Praetorian]

Prae..someone who is carb sensetive..how may carbs a day do you recommend taking in.The reason why i ask is because i want to try something new with my diet the next time I start bulking.I want to "time" my carbs(using insulin) around my weight training and take advanatge of the strenght and glycogen replenshing along with protein synthesis it gives me.But at the same time,I seem to get water in my gut and bloat up a bit with carbs especially later on in my diet.Heres a layout of what i want to try:

Say on average i need 350 grams of carbs on weight training days and 250grams on non training days for an average of 300 a day for a total of 600 grams over the course of 2 days.Now what i would like to do is this:

Meal 1-100g(8ui's of Hum-R)(oatmeal(50carbs) and bread with some sugary spread for another 50 grams of carbs)
Meal 2-50g
Meal 3- 50g(4ui's of Hum-R)
Meal 4-50g
Meal 5-Preworkout 100grams of gatorade..but now i feel like trying waxi maze like you pointed out earlier(humalog 10uis.And yes,i am careful and have had incredible gains using it preworkout.But to switch things up I go with it PWO as well.So pre workout half is sipped 15 mins before training..and the other half is sipped slowly during training
TRAIN
Meal 5-75grams(solid meal)
meal 6-25 grams(slow burning carbs(veggies and a salad))

Next day:
Meal 1-75grams
meal 2- 75grams
Meal 3 to 6..NO carbs..just fat and protein

Days that i train i will eat very minimul amount of fat(the fats i do eat will be good fats lke omega 3 and 6) and save alot of it on the days that i dont train .I will do cardio on non weight days however but not very intense.Fast walking at the most for 30 mins..just to keep water retention off

First..do you think 300 grams of carbs on average is too much for a carb sensitive person?

Second,do you like the set up that i have with the carbs and insulin around my workouts?

Third,I would only use insulin 3 times a week for about 4 weeks total.But what i want to know is Once i get off insulin,will my normal production and sensitivity be back to normal?Or do I have to do alot of "low carb" days to get it back to where it was:).I ask because it always seems that after 4 weeks of bulking(with insulin or not) i tend to bloat alot more cause of my sensitivity to carbs

Thanks!!

In order for the body to be in the maximum anabolic state at all times it requires fat, protein, and carbs. If you have meals without carbs (which are protein sparing) you are leaving out an essential part of the formula. I prefer to keep things as simple as possible. Whether you are carb sensitive or not eating too many carbs will make you fat...with or without slin. The body only requires a certain amount of carbs which are used for energy...any more than that and they will be stored. What I would suggest is to try to balance each meal and have about 50g carbs per meal. So if you are eating 6 meals per day thats only 300g carbs...not a whole lot. This should be plenty to fuel you for the day and your workouts yet prevent excess fat deposition.
You can still use insulin with this plan...I would suggest humulin R 6iu in the morning with breakfast and 6iu post workout with your shake. You can up the carbs in the PWO shake to 75-80g if you like. Using insulin will tend to make you retain water...its very common...also it wont affect your sensitivity to carbs or your endogenous production of insulin either. If you feel you arent gaining fast enough on this plan you can increase the number of meals...but I prefer to keep the meals balanced so the body is never starved for any type of macro nutrient.
P

[buildinthaskinnys]

Hey praetorian, what are your thoughts on having stronger sets following the first? I seems to be seeing this all the time, where I am able to perform an additional rep when benching on my second set, then with something like squats sometimes it maybe up to three reps more. I noticed again today, I came into the gym feeling a little tired, and warmed up as per usual then did 9 reps to failure rested and then I was able to push out 10 to failure, Im wondering if I am suffering from adrenal fatigue problems.

[Praetorian]

Hey praetorian, what are your thoughts on having stronger sets following the first? I seems to be seeing this all the time, where I am able to perform an additional rep when benching on my second set, then with something like squats sometimes it maybe up to three reps more. I noticed again today, I came into the gym feeling a little tired, and warmed up as per usual then did 9 reps to failure rested and then I was able to push out 10 to failure, Im wondering if I am suffering from adrenal fatigue problems.

I would suggest going a bit heavier on your first set...use a weight where you fail somewhere around 5-6 reps. This way your next set can be failing around 7-8(slightly lower weight) and your third set 9-10(slightly lower again). I highly doubt its adrenal fatigue. To test for adrenal fatigue you can lie down take your blood pressure then stand up and take your blood pressure again...it should be higher second time...if not you may have slight adrenal fatigue.
P

[Ritch]

Interesting adrenal fatigue test there Praetorian.

[buildinthaskinnys]

I would suggest going a bit heavier on your first set...use a weight where you fail somewhere around 5-6 reps. This way your next set can be failing around 7-8(slightly lower weight) and your third set 9-10(slightly lower again). I highly doubt its adrenal fatigue. To test for adrenal fatigue you can lie down take your blood pressure then stand up and take your blood pressure again...it should be higher second time...if not you may have slight adrenal fatigue.
P

Ok, I took my blood pressure tonight, laying down it was 143/66 and standing it was 146/72 so this is high, but this shouldnt indicate an adrenal problem?

I have to say though, after some of my own research I do show symptoms of adrenal fatigue, non related to weight training, what would you recommend to help this?

I have problems with this entire list of symptoms from time to time, but many on a daily basis.

Signs and Symptoms of Adrenal Fatigue
Tendency to tremble when under pressure.
Reduced sex drive.
Lightheaded when rising from a laying down position.
Unable to remember things.
Lack of energy in the mornings and also in the afternoon between 3 to 5 pm.
Feel better suddenly for a brief period after a meal.
Often feel tired betweeen 9 - 10 pm, but resist going to bed.
Need coffee or stimulants to get going in the morning.
Crave for salty, fatty, and high protein food such as meat and cheese.
Pain in the upper back or neck with no apparent reasons.
Feels better when stress is relieved, such as on a vacation.
Difficulties in getting up in the morning
Lightheaded

[Praetorian]

Ok, I took my blood pressure tonight, laying down it was 143/66 and standing it was 146/72 so this is high, but this shouldnt indicate an adrenal problem?

I have to say though, after some of my own research I do show symptoms of adrenal fatigue, non related to weight training, what would you recommend to help this?

I have problems with this entire list of symptoms from time to time, but many on a daily basis.

Signs and Symptoms of Adrenal Fatigue
Tendency to tremble when under pressure.
Reduced sex drive.
Lightheaded when rising from a laying down position.
Unable to remember things.
Lack of energy in the mornings and also in the afternoon between 3 to 5 pm.
Feel better suddenly for a brief period after a meal.
Often feel tired betweeen 9 - 10 pm, but resist going to bed.
Need coffee or stimulants to get going in the morning.
Crave for salty, fatty, and high protein food such as meat and cheese.
Pain in the upper back or neck with no apparent reasons.
Feels better when stress is relieved, such as on a vacation.
Difficulties in getting up in the morning
Lightheaded

The numbers dont indicate adrenal fatigue...however you may have some slight issues with CNS...ir overtraining etc.
1. are you taking any stimulants ie ephedrine, caffeine, etc?
2. are you under alot of stress...ie school, exams, work, relationship issues?
3. do you get 8 hours of sleep each night?
4. are you training to failure constantly?
5. how many days per week do you train?

P

[buildinthaskinnys]

I had this dream last night where I had a huge headache, so I wake up in the middle of the night with a huge ass headache! I got problems.

1. 1 cup coffee usually only on workout days.

2. Yes I deal with a lot of stress, nuff said. Now though, not anymore than before.

3. I get between 9 and 10 hours every night.

4. I train to failure but I also only do a maximum of 3-4 working sets per muscle group.

5. I was training 3 days a week training the body parts twice every 8 days, in an upper/lower split.

I have just got back into it after the christmas break, there was a week or so where I was going into the gym but not hitting it hard like when I am trying to gain, I purposely did this as a de-load so to speak.

I appreciate you taking the time to read though my bs.

[jamex]

I had believed that training to failure was paramount to growth with regards to overload and whatnot. I'm aware this will lead to overtraining under certain circumstances like calorie deficit, but is it not mitigated by proper diet and recovery time?

[Praetorian]

I had this dream last night where I had a huge headache, so I wake up in the middle of the night with a huge ass headache! I got problems.

1. 1 cup coffee usually only on workout days. DONT SEE A PROBLEM WITH THAT

2. Yes I deal with a lot of stress, nuff said. Now though, not anymore than before. TRY SOME RELAXATION TECHNIQUES...JUST GOOGLE IT

3. I get between 9 and 10 hours every night. MORE THAN 8 CAN BE DETRIMENTAL AS WELL

4. I train to failure but I also only do a maximum of 3-4 working sets per muscle group. NORMALLY I WILL HAVE A HEAVY WEEK TO FAILURE FOLLOWED BY A MODERATE WEEK, DIFFERENT EXERCISE BUT NOT TO FAILURE...IE REGULAR BARBELL SQUATS HEAVY TO FAILURE FOLLOWED BY BOX SQUATS BUT LIMIT THE REPS

5. I was training 3 days a week training the body parts twice every 8 days, in an upper/lower split.YOU MAY WANT TO SWITCH TO 4 DAYS PER WEEK, EACH MUSLCE TRAINED ONCE ONLY

I have just got back into it after the christmas break, there was a week or so where I was going into the gym but not hitting it hard like when I am trying to gain, I purposely did this as a de-load so to speak.

I appreciate you taking the time to read though my bs.

You can also try Reset AD by Palo alto Labs...available at BB.com it does help immensely with adrenal stress.
P

[LonelyBedouin]

Hey P, when running a cycle of just a long ester test, is it absolutely necessary to use pct. As with the long ester it will taper off after your last shot and blood levels will slowly return to normal?

[Praetorian]

I had believed that training to failure was paramount to growth with regards to overload and whatnot. I'm aware this will lead to overtraining under certain circumstances like calorie deficit, but is it not mitigated by proper diet and recovery time?

Yes training to failure is paramount to growth...training to failure every workout is a recipe for disaster, injury, and complete CNS burnout. Every athlete in any sport peaks for competition...that is their training has some form of periodization schedule.
As an example a sprinter cannot go full out all the time in training without risking serious injury and reduced performance. The 100% effort times are carefully selected and alternated between times of lower intensity but increased volume or a deloading phase.
P

[Praetorian]

Hey P, when running a cycle of just a long ester test, is it absolutely necessary to use pct. As with the long ester it will taper off after your last shot and blood levels will slowly return to normal?

I guess the determining factor is your definition of "slowly". For some slowly is a few weeks for other months. Eventually they will return to normal but being in a testosterone depressed state for a few months may not be what some might want. The idea behind PCT is to return to normal quickly thus avoiding a crash and the ensuing muscle loss, libido loss, depression etc.
P

[Dragon1911]

Praetorian i was wondering which type of keto diet you prefer the CKD or TKD and for which purposes.

Im leaning towards the TKD through the winter for a clean bulk and then switching over to a CKD to cut before summer.

Does this sound ok?

[Praetorian]

Praetorian i was wondering which type of keto diet you prefer the CKD or TKD and for which purposes.

Im leaning towards the TKD through the winter for a clean bulk and then switching over to a CKD to cut before summer.

Does this sound ok?

The keto diet was never meant to be used to gain muscle and it is not efficient at doing so. To gain muscle you need carbs, for energy requirements, to spare protein for muscle building, to illicit an insulin response, etc I would suggest a balanced meal plan for muscle building and a strict keto diet for leaning out. I dont use the TKD or the CKD as I find them very inefficient when it comes to fat loss. On a regular keto diet just add in one cheat meal per week and you are good to go.
P

[btufts]

P, i was wondering what supplement i would be better off taking on my keto diet. Omega 3's or cla?

[Praetorian]

P, i was wondering what supplement i would be better off taking on my keto diet. Omega 3's or cla?

A good fish oil cap would be best.
P

[btufts]

Thanks p, would cla be beneficial aswell?

[natenator]

The issue with someone without a gallbladder is saturated fats. If you replace the saturated fats with essential fats she shoudl be fine. I have a client running a very similar diet who has also had her gallbladder removed and she has no issues. Also use a 2-2 method so two days use the above diet (no saturated fats) and then two day use a pro/veg diet. Essential fat scan be stored so that can also be an issue.
MEAL #1
10 Egg Whites

MEAL #2
SHAKE: 35g Whey Protein + fiberlyze

MEAL #3
“Lean Protein Meal”: 6oz chicken (or turkey, or tuna, or tilapia, flounder, sole or cod) +
1 cup green beans (or asparagus or cucumbers)

MEAL #4
“Lean Protein Meal”: 6oz whitefish (or chicken, or turkey, or tuna, or tilapia, flounder, sole or cod) + a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) or 1 cup green beans + lemon juice or vinegar

MEAL #5
SHAKE: 35g Whey Protein + fiberlyze OR 10 Egg Whites

P
ahh I missed this!

Thanks bud! Greatly appreciated. I'll pass it along to her.

[Praetorian]

Thanks p, would cla be beneficial aswell?

A few caps per day wouldnt hurt.
P

[rickyboy36]

Hey Prae,

Ive got a couple of questions regarding doses..and program lengths.Now because of timing and other circumstances,I will be ending my Keto diet in 3 weeks and i plan on going on a mini bulk for 4 weeks and then BACK into a keto diet for an undetermined period of time.Now for my 4 week bulk,I will add in 250mgs of test e to my current 250mgs of test e and 250 mgs of Tren E for a total of 500mgs Test E and 250mgs of Tren E.I will also use your insulin protocol to maximize gains

Now what I want to know is can 4 weeks give me enough time to gain a bit muscle .Like i said,im kind of obligated to do this cause of timing and was wondering if its worth it at all...

Second,once i finish my 4 week training,ill be diving back into a keto diet.Now the thing is,Im not sure what doses I should be using when going into a cut like this immediatley after a program like the one i plan on doing.As you know,the body needs to be accustomed somewhat to the new aquired muscle and many believe that without the aid of higher doses you can lose muscle when going into cutting mode right away.But like i said,it isnt an option for me so i have to do this.Now say i packed on 2-3lbs of muscle(if im lucky..but Im also taking advantage of the fact that i will be in a somewhat good reboung position) on my 4 week training period.Would you keep doses the same..or would you up your doses somewhat.Maybe add in an extra 250mgs of test E??I also have a lot of Tren E i can use as well so doses arent really an issue unless it starts getting dangerous health wise.

Thanks

[Praetorian]

Hey Prae,

Ive got a couple of questions regarding doses..and program lengths.Now because of timing and other circumstances,I will be ending my Keto diet in 3 weeks and i plan on going on a mini bulk for 4 weeks and then BACK into a keto diet for an undetermined period of time.Now for my 4 week bulk,I will add in 250mgs of test e to my current 250mgs of test e and 250 mgs of Tren E for a total of 500mgs Test E and 250mgs of Tren E.I will also use your insulin protocol to maximize gains

Now what I want to know is can 4 weeks give me enough time to gain a bit muscle .Like i said,im kind of obligated to do this cause of timing and was wondering if its worth it at all...

Second,once i finish my 4 week training,ill be diving back into a keto diet.Now the thing is,Im not sure what doses I should be using when going into a cut like this immediatley after a program like the one i plan on doing.As you know,the body needs to be accustomed somewhat to the new aquired muscle and many believe that without the aid of higher doses you can lose muscle when going into cutting mode right away.But like i said,it isnt an option for me so i have to do this.Now say i packed on 2-3lbs of muscle(if im lucky..but Im also taking advantage of the fact that i will be in a somewhat good reboung position) on my 4 week training period.Would you keep doses the same..or would you up your doses somewhat.Maybe add in an extra 250mgs of test E??I also have a lot of Tren E i can use as well so doses arent really an issue unless it starts getting dangerous health wise.

Thanks

While on a keto diet 500mg long ester test is a perfectly fine dosage to maximize muscle retention. Because your 4 week growth phase is so short you wont build substantial muscle but as you said you have to do this so I would maximize it the best I could. My suggestion is to leave the long ester test at 500mg weekly and add prop at 100mg EOD. This will get into your system fast and give you an added boost. You can also add an oral such as dbol at 25-30mg daily fo an additional boost for that 4 weeks. Adding in more long ester test or tren enanthate will not work effectively because by the time your blood levels rise you are back to cutting again. Save the tren for the second cutting phase to add to the long ester test.
P

[rickyboy36]

While on a keto diet 500mg long ester test is a perfectly fine dosage to maximize muscle retention. Because your 4 week growth phase is so short you wont build substantial muscle but as you said you have to do this so I would maximize it the best I could. My suggestion is to leave the long ester test at 500mg weekly and add prop at 100mg EOD. This will get into your system fast and give you an added boost. You can also add an oral such as dbol at 25-30mg daily fo an additional boost for that 4 weeks. Adding in more long ester test or tren enanthate will not work effectively because by the time your blood levels rise you are back to cutting again. Save the tren for the second cutting phase to add to the long ester test.
P

Prae,after putting in a bit more of thought,I might be able to get in 6 weeks instead of four.So if i read you correctly i would go into this bulker with the same compounds and doses as now(250 of test and 250 of tren) and ADD some d-bol or prop..right?And after,once i get back into my keto diet just drop the d-bol or prop and remain at 500mgs.

Now if YOU had only 6 weeks to train..would you go balls to the wall for 6 weeks..or would you do a 2 weeks hardcore,1 mianteance,then repeat?Or maybe 5 weeks hardcore and 1 maintainance?I imagine you would go very heavy with high volume here seeing you dont have very long on your cycle?

[Praetorian]

Prae,after putting in a bit more of thought,I might be able to get in 6 weeks instead of four.So if i read you correctly i would go into this bulker with the same compounds and doses as now(250 of test and 250 of tren) and ADD some d-bol or prop..right?And after,once i get back into my keto diet just drop the d-bol or prop and remain at 500mgs.

Now if YOU had only 6 weeks to train..would you go balls to the wall for 6 weeks..or would you do a 2 weeks hardcore,1 mianteance,then repeat?Or maybe 5 weeks hardcore and 1 maintainance?I imagine you would go very heavy with high volume here seeing you dont have very long on your cycle?

I think 250mg weekly of test is too low. IMO the best idea would be to use 500mg weekly Test....whether it be long ester only or a combo of long ester and prop. Leave the tren at 250mg weekly or you can drop it if you like and add it back in after the 6 weeeks is over. Then just add in the dbol in for the 6 weeks...keep it simple. After the 6 weeks I would still leave the test at 500mg preferably all long ester.
Training should be high intensity but not high volume. You cannot do both for very long with out running into serious CNS issues. 2-3 working sets to failure is more than enough..
P

[rockgym]

hey prae, can you give me your pct protocol?

i ran my 2nd cycle

600mg test c ew for 12 weeks
100mg of anadrol ed wk 7
50mg anadrol ed wk 8-12

can you tell me what you think i should run for pct for this?

you told me before but i think the post got deleted or something, i cant find it

i have hcg,clomid,nolva,aromasin,arimidex on hand

thank you

[friendh35]

Hi P
First, sorry for my English.

I want to cycle from 20 to 24 weeks. 10-12 weeks for bulking and 10-12 weeks on a Keto Diet.

I'll lose the muscle I gained during the bulk, if I make a Keto Diet immediately after the bulk cycle?

Suppose my cycle looks like this ...
Week 1 to 10-12
1500 mg / Test Enanthate
600 mg / Tren Enanthate
900 mg / Equipoise

Week 11 to 20
750 mg / Test Enanthate

Thanks !

[jamex]

Can fiber supplements interfere with digestion of vitamins (or anything else or that matter) taken around the same time? When I think of psyllium turning into that goo that I've washed out of glasses, I wondered if food\vitamins could get trapped inside and pass right through.

[Praetorian]

hey prae, can you give me your pct protocol?

i ran my 2nd cycle

600mg test c ew for 12 weeks
100mg of anadrol ed wk 7
50mg anadrol ed wk 8-12

can you tell me what you think i should run for pct for this?

you told me before but i think the post got deleted or something, i cant find it

i have hcg,clomid,nolva,aromasin,arimidex on hand

thank you


Stop everything except 500mg long ester test and run that for two weeks then stop. After your last shot of test wait one week then start HCG 2000iu every third day for a total of 5 shots (10,000 iu). Concurrently with the HCG run 12.5mg aromasin ED. After the HCG is finished start clomid at 50mg twice daily for three weeks and continue with the aromasin. When finished with the clomid you can stop the aromasin.
Things that help with PCT, 2iu HGH ED if affordable. Creatine monohydrate, lower volume and dont train to failure.
P

[Praetorian]

Hi P
First, sorry for my English.

I want to cycle from 20 to 24 weeks. 10-12 weeks for bulking and 10-12 weeks on a Keto Diet.

I'll lose the muscle I gained during the bulk, if I make a Keto Diet immediately after the bulk cycle?

Suppose my cycle looks like this ...
Week 1 to 10-12
1500 mg / Test Enanthate
600 mg / Tren Enanthate
900 mg / Equipoise

Week 11 to 20
750 mg / Test Enanthate

Thanks !

20-24 is a very long cycle and will require aggressive PCT. Immediately starting a diet after a lean gaining cycle will tend to drop a bit of non matured muscle yes. I would suggest a 12-16 weeks gaining cycle followed by PCT and then a 12-16 week diet about a month or two later.
Your dosages are a bit higher than what is necessary.
For the lean gaining cycle I woudl suggest:
test E 250mg EOD
EQ 200mg EOD
For the diet :
test E 750mg weekly
tren e 225mg weekly

P

[Praetorian]

Can fiber supplements interfere with digestion of vitamins (or anything else or that matter) taken around the same time? When I think of psyllium turning into that goo that I've washed out of glasses, I wondered if food\vitamins could get trapped inside and pass right through.

Yes they definitely can. Try to take your vitamins etc away from fibre supps if possible.
P

[Talo]

Yes they definitely can. Try to take your vitamins etc away from fibre supps if possible.
P


Go to know , thanks :)

[rockgym]

Stop everything except 500mg long ester test and run that for two weeks then stop. After your last shot of test wait one week then start HCG 2000iu every third day for a total of 5 shots (10,000 iu). Concurrently with the HCG run 12.5mg aromasin ED. After the HCG is finished start clomid at 50mg twice daily for three weeks and continue with the aromasin. When finished with the clomid you can stop the aromasin.
Things that help with PCT, 2iu HGH ED if affordable. Creatine monohydrate, lower volume and dont train to failure.
P

Hey brotha, why do you say run the test for 2 more weeks then stop????
because of the anadrol???

saturday i took my first shot of hcg 200ius
sunday i took 10mg aromasin and 50mg of clomid
monday(today) i just took 50mg of clomid before seeing this.

i already started my pct. but above is all i took. should i just stop the pct and hcg right now, and postpone it?? and continue my test c for 2 more weeks??? it would work out fine (i think) since i have been pinning monday and thursday. so i would pin today.

let me know what you think and hopefully starting my pct early wont hurt anything. i started the pct that i thought i remembered you giving me after my last injection. let me know how you think i should adjust it given the information i gave you.

thanks a lot prae

[Praetorian]

Hey brotha, why do you say run the test for 2 more weeks then stop????
because of the anadrol??? YES, YOU WILL CRASH IF YOU DONT

saturday i took my first shot of hcg 200ius
sunday i took 10mg aromasin and 50mg of clomid
monday(today) i just took 50mg of clomid before seeing this.

i already started my pct. but above is all i took. should i just stop the pct and hcg right now, and postpone it?? YES
and continue my test c for 2 more weeks? YES
it would work out fine (i think) since i have been pinning monday and thursday. so i would pin today. SOUNDS GOOD

let me know what you think and hopefully starting my pct early wont hurt anything. i started the pct that i thought i remembered you giving me after my last injection. let me know how you think i should adjust it given the information i gave you. WHAT YOUVE DONE SO FAR SHOULDNT AFFECT ANYTHING MUCH

thanks a lot prae

P

[rockgym]

P

thanks man. i should have asked this in that previous post, but can i run 600mg ew for these last 2 weeks? I only have test c 200mg/ml vials. Plus I was running 600mg ew throughout my cycle, so is this ok? thanks again

[Praetorian]

thanks man. i should have asked this in that previous post, but can i run 600mg ew for these last 2 weeks? I only have test c 200mg/ml vials. Plus I was running 600mg ew throughout my cycle, so is this ok? thanks again

Yes thats fine...
P

[z83]

Hi P,

Following the palumbo 200lbs diet with 1.5tbspn of PB.

Is that possible to eat veggies instead of a green salad ? Can't stomach olive oil / balsamic vinegar.

Stupid question...I don't have proper equipement to weight food yet...
How much oz is a big chicken breast ? Google say between 4-8oz.

Should I keep sodium low, moderate, high ?

Last thing. Could I add splenda to water or maybe drink a no sugar energy drink ?

Thanks

z83

[friendh35]

20-24 is a very long cycle and will require aggressive PCT. Immediately starting a diet after a lean gaining cycle will tend to drop a bit of non matured muscle yes. I would suggest a 12-16 weeks gaining cycle followed by PCT and then a 12-16 week diet about a month or two later.
Your dosages are a bit higher than what is necessary.
For the lean gaining cycle I woudl suggest:
test E 250mg EOD
EQ 200mg EOD
For the diet :
test E 750mg weekly
tren e 225mg weekly

P

Thanks ...

I thought having to use at least 1 gram of testosterone per week.
The addition of tren would be a better combination with test enanthate and equipoise for adding mass?

I thought that at some level, it was common to cycles 20-24 weeks or more?

Thank again.

[rickyboy36]

Prae..say someone only wants to diet 6 weeks and wants to lose fat very quickly.He has clen,t3,500mgs of Test E and is doing the keto diet along with cardio.In your opinion can he go up to 3lbs of fat loss a week without losing any muscle?

In your opinion and with what you have observed with your clients,whats the maximum one can lose a week without sacraficing muscle?I know they say 2lbs is safe,but can we go higher than that?

Thanks!

[Praetorian]

Hi P,

Following the palumbo 200lbs diet with 1.5tbspn of PB.

Is that possible to eat veggies instead of a green salad ? Can't stomach olive oil / balsamic vinegar.

Stupid question...I don't have proper equipement to weight food yet...
How much oz is a big chicken breast ? Google say between 4-8oz.

Should I keep sodium low, moderate, high ?

Last thing. Could I add splenda to water or maybe drink a no sugar energy drink ?

Thanks

z83

Yes you can have green beans or asparagus or broccoli...chop it into bits and measure out 1 cup.
You need to buy a food scale...go to Canadian Tire....guessing is not good.
Sodium should be moderate...just use condiments that are high in sodium...ie hot sauce, mustard etc.....never go low sodium while dieitng except 24 hours out from a contest. No splenda....use crystal light....a few diet sodas is ok...just dont go crazy.
P
P