Q&A with Praetorian - National Level Competitor

[Praetorian]

Just wanted to share a good article...in contrast to all the BS training crap going on these days.
P

11 Myths of Warrior (MMA) training.
by Martin Rooney and Bryan Krahn

Martin Rooney wants to change how you think about mixed martial arts (MMA) training.

Considered to be the pioneer of physical training for MMA, Martin has 13 years' experience getting fighters ready for action. He's trained and cornered hundreds of fighters, including several UFC champions.

He's knowledgeable and opinionated, but he isn't above admitting when he's made a mistake. Fact is, Rooney says it's his mistakes — and learning from them — that's had the biggest impact on his development as one of the most sought after coaches in the sport.

Rooney's indoctrination into MMA began in the late 90's in the decidedly non-Brazilian city of Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Rooney was a member of the US Bobsled team and his roommate was Olympic silver medalist Todd Hays, who also happened to be a pro fighter.

Hays started teaching Rooney a few things on the side and soon Rooney was hooked. Upon returning to the U.S., he quickly joined a nearby Gracie school. Rooney eventually began training the fighters he rubbed shoulders with and the rest as they say, is history.

But not a long history. Although the various fighting disciplines of MMA have been around for centuries, the actual sport of MMA is just a kid; even worse, it's a teenager.

"At 16 or 17 years old, MMA and its training is in adolescence," says Rooney, "and like adolescent teenagers, they think they know everything, they don't listen, and they make a lot of mistakes."

Rooney says that one of the biggest mistakes is the "evolution" of MMA training. Trainers and coaches are continually looking for the latest and greatest ways to improve their fighters, but Rooney says it's bordering on ridiculous.

"I've travelled the world, to places where the martial arts began, and none of the trainers are doing any of this nonsense," says Rooney.

"It's like sushi: You go to Japan and sushi is beautiful simplicity, fish and rice. And it's incredible.

Head down to the local sushi shop in the US and you can get the Hackensack roll, which has 10 ingredients and 15 sauces. It's more complicated, but it sure isn't better.

With MMA training, I see the same thing, and the same myths being put out there..."


Myth #1: Training for MMA should be all circuit-style high-volume training.

If you're going to train to be an MMA fighter, you have to perform a bunch of high volume circuits as they test your will, not to mention leave you crazy sore, right?

Not so, says Rooney.

"I was circuit crazy for years. I'd destroy my athletes with them," says Rooney. "And guess what? My guys would still get gassed in the ring. Circuit training does not build a better fighter; training like an athlete does.

I get guys telling me all the time that they love circuits cause they get so crazy sore. Great, but what's the result? You do these circuits enough and you'll get better at them and won't be as sore, but you're still weak.

You're now a weak fighter who's good at circuits."

Rooney says that the circuit craze in MMA is a byproduct of the whole macho tough guy attitude that surrounds MMA training. It may look cool and sell magazines, but it isn't effective.

"It's pursuing fatigue and not improvement, all part of the idea that you're not a man unless you're getting your ass kicked in the gym as well as in the ring."

So what's the right way?

"Squats, deadlifts, bench presses, power cleans; the basics, combined with some sprinting and some stretching. It may not be glamorous, but it makes you stronger and faster."

For Regular Dudes: If you want to burn fat and improve your conditioning, use circuits sparingly. Think one, maybe two sessions a week, with the remaining time spent on basic heavy lifting.

"You have to think of longevity," says Rooney. "Performing five days of circuits a week doesn't make you tough, it just makes you injured. You can lift weights forever, but good luck hitting those circuits in 20 years."


Myth #2: Fighters need a minimum of 8 weeks to get ready for a fight.

"Nonsense," says Rooney. "If you're a fighter, you should be ready to fight all the time. This whole 8-week camp standard just gives guys an excuse to get out of shape."

Rooney says the "8-weeks out" thing all started with boxing, where old school boxers used to go to training camps 2 or 3 months before a fight to get into shape. But Rooney says MMA is not boxing, and current MMA fighters are fighting all the time, sometimes 7 or 8 times a year. Getting out of shape just isn't an option.

"If you get out of shape, you have to kill yourself for 8 weeks and will show up wiped out," says Rooney. "But if you stay in shape year round, you show up fresh.

Frankie Edgar is known for his incredible motor and he stays in shape and trains hard year-round. For him, a fight is just another day at the office."

For Regular Dudes: Don't take unnecessary breaks. Do something, anything, to keep you in the game. Sure, life gets busy and priorities sometimes need to change ("I can't change Junior's diaper honey, I gotta train legs tonight."), but you should never have to quit training completely. Have periods where you train less and periods where you train more. But never just do nothing.


Myth #3: If I follow fighter X's program, I will be fit like him.

Here's the pitch: Follow Georges St. Pierre's (circuit based) workout for three months and you'll be mistaken for GSP at your favorite nightclub.

Fiction.

"It's like the Schwarzenegger arm routines we all used to follow. Five sets of barbell curls, 4 sets of preacher curls, a couple sets of 21's. It's lunacy; why do we expect it to work with fighters?"

It's a good segue to one of Rooney's biggest peeves, and biggest sources of amusement.

"I don't watch the Ultimate Fighter but I always know when it airs — the next day at the gym, there will be guys doing stuff like running backwards on a treadmill with a snorkel on.

The training programs have all been sensationalized to get ratings. I know the top trainers and what they really do, and it's what you'd expect — basic, smart training. But that doesn't get ratings."

Rooney says the goofball training also plays an important psychological role.

"Think about it — if I'm training Jim Miller for a fight in two months, when the cameras arrive do I show how we really train, or do I try to psyche out my opponent's camp by having Jim swim in shark infested waters while I shoot flaming arrows at him?"

For Regular Dudes: Try new things: basic, intelligent training that's tailored to your specific needs — not some celebrity's. That's the smartest option. "I give seminars all over the world, and I always ask the room who has flexibility issues," says Rooney. "Virtually everyone will raise their hand. Next, I ask whoever's working on it (flexibility) to keep your hands up. Maybe one or two are."

Only you know what you need. Do that, not the latest thing.


Myth #4: MMA is tough, so the training needs to be even more strenuous.

This one frustrates the hell out of Rooney.

"We destroy guys with these grueling camps and endless death circuits to 'mimic' what supposedly happens in a fight, and then we wonder why they show up absolutely bagged."

Rooney says the logic behind it is simple: if a fight is 15 minutes and the fighter gets his or her heart rate up to 160 BPM, why not push the fighter to 30 minutes and 200 BPM?

"It's a neat theory, but physiologically, all that's accomplished is the nervous system and the adrenals get cooked. No wonder the poor athlete shows up wiped!"

As for mimicking the conditions of a fight?

"Look at how NFL players train: they lift, sprint, and stretch. They don't run into walls, train for three hours, or have guys smash them in the legs with bats because it 'mimics' a game situation.

When I train a fighter, he's never gassed on the mat. I train them to feel the opposite, and after every round of training or circuit work I tell them to raise their hands in victory.

Not only does this send a signal to the opponent, it conditions them to be champions. Lying on your back in the middle of the gym is not champion behavior."

For Regular Dudes: We're not saying never perform hard work, but don't make training an ego-driven process. Destroying yourself day after day makes you weak, not strong.


Myth # 5: MMA fighters are supposed to be injured and beat up all the time.

"More macho nonsense," says Rooney. "All athletes must compete through aches and pains and a certain amount of discomfort, but if an NFL player is legitimately injured, he's not playing — he's on the treatment table.

But I forgot, MMA fighters are supposed to be too tough for that."

Rooney says a fighter should feel amazing coming into a fight, not smashed, injured, and looking like he's on death's door.

"Inexperienced trainers smash athletes, plain and simple. It's that adolescence thing rearing its ugly head again, the whole I'm bulletproof and will live forever attitude.

I bought into it too, and trust me, my hindsight is your foresight."

For Regular Dudes: Recoveryis the most underappreciated variable in training, whether among professional athletes or weekend warriors juggling 60-hour workweeks with family and hitting the gym four days a week.

If you feel run down when you show up at the gym, don't train! If your shoulder aches when benching, don't bench! Regular guys need rehab too — rest, ice, nutrition, and sleep.


Myth #6: Throwing up during a workout means the trainer is tough.

This is the epitome of macho meathead training, says Rooney.

"Throwing up is a nervous system defense mechanism that something very wrong has happened — why you would want to associate that with training is beyond me."

For Regular Dudes: It all boils down to pursuing positive indicators of training, not fatigue.


Myth #7: Strength work shouldn't be done too often, especially for fighters trying to cut weight.

This stems form the old school myth that lifting weights and building strength will make you gain significant amounts of bodyweight. Rooney blames that on muscle-head marketing and small-minded folks who confuse getting fat with building muscle.

"People forget that lifting weights helps you burn fat," says Rooney.

"Jim Miller is 7 & 1 in the UFC, and two years ago he never used to lift weights. He also never used to knock anyone down. Now he has a 455-pound deadlift at 155 pounds and is knocking guys down left and right. And he still makes weight."

For Regular Dudes: Kettlebells, battling ropes, and sledgehammers are effective tools, but they should be used accordingly. The point is, getting stronger in the basics is the foundation of any smart program.


Myth #8: Fighters can eat what they want since they train so much.

Often the fighters with the best genetics eat the worst, something Martin finds frustrating. He also knows just who to blame:

"I blame Michael Phelps for this myth. When that stupid article came out showing all the crap he supposedly ate every day, I was inundated with fighters thinking this somehow validates their junk food habit.

Look, a guy like that is the exception, not the rule. If you truly believe that you're a genetic superfreak and can reach the top eating garbage, good luck to you.

My experience suggests guys like that are few and far between."

Rooney says that to have a superior body, you have to feed it the best possible fuel. "I'm huge on whole foods, lots of fresh produce, and plenty of water," he says. "Supplement wise, I'm big on protein powders, vitamin D, fish oil, vitamin C, glutamine, and Biotest Superfood."

For Regular Dudes: Although it's as outdated as your dad's 8-Track cassette player, a lot of guys still think you can out train a lame diet. 'I did a grueling circuit today and threw up all over the floor so I can have this Big Mac on the way to work.'

Nonsense. "Elite athletes can't do that, and you can't do that," says Rooney.


Myth #9: Wrestlers make the best MMA fighters.

"Surprise, this one isn't a myth," says Rooney. "If you could only learn one discipline before stepping into the octagon, wrestling should be your discipline of choice.

Just look at the top guys. Brock Lesnar, Shane Carwin, Frankie Edgar, GSP, Josh Koscheck; they all had outstanding wrestling careers before MMA."

Rooney says that wrestlers are not only very strong, they can also decide where the fight goes. "If I'm good at striking and I know it's a weakness for you, I can use my wrestling takedown defence to keep the match off the ground to where I can use my striking advantage. Obviously, the opposite is true as well."

Rooney describes the process of coming up the wrestling ranks as a giant meat grinder. "Ten thousand guys in various programs competing week after week, until a handful of men emerge as champions."

"These champions are basically unbreakable. You can't injure them, can't break them, can't defeat them."

Rooney adds that wrestlers are also the best weight cutters of them all. "For a wrestler, dropping 25 pounds in a few days is just par for the course. Other fighters can find that really challenging."

For Regular Dudes: Not much to say here, other than if you're thinking of being a great MMA fighter, conjure up the spirit of Albert Einstein, build a time machine, and persuade your folks to enroll you in wrestling as a kid.


Myth #10: The best way to train for endurance is with endurance work.

This is a popular myth that's desperate for debunking.

Rooney says everyone assumes that fighters and wrestlers have outstanding V02 max scores, but they really don't, at least not in comparison to cross country skiers or the like.

"What they do have is incredible strength and as we all know, maximal strength work will also work the aerobic energy system.

Between rounds, I've never had a fighter say, 'Wow, he's got really good endurance.' But I do hear, 'Man he's so much stronger than me' all the time," says Rooney.

Overwhelming strength can wear you out fast. If two fighters clinch in an isometric hold but one fighter is three times stronger than the other, obviously the weaker fighter will tire first, because at 100% exertion his opponent would only need to be exerting 30%.

"Circuits won't develop significant maximal strength," says Rooney, "so you get guys who gas in the middle of a guillotine lock.

Frankie Edgar is known for his incredible motor. His secret — tons of strength work."

For Regular Dudes: At the risk of sounding like a broken record, heavy basic lifting combined with some sprinting and stretching is a near perfect combination for the average guy looking for an above average physique.


Myth #11: You can train MMA and still have your high powerlifting numbers.

"I hear this all the time," says Rooney. "Coach, my bench is going down! Look, you can't ride two horses with one ass. Although I know some strong MMA fighters, none of them are watching their bench or deadlift go up as a fight approaches."

Rooney says it boils down to deciding what you want. If you want to have an elite total, great! Go for it. If you want to have veins and abs and bring up your brachialis, more power to you. Just don't think you can excel at those things and excel at fighting.

"No boxer has ever been famous for his bench press," says Rooney.

"Deciding to be an MMA fighter could and should be one of the most serious, life-changing decisions you ever make. Respect it as such."

For Regular Dudes: As the old saying goes, pick a goal and work backwards. It's highly unlikely that if your goal is, "Compete in bodybuilding in 3 years" that, "Submit Ricky from accounting" is one of the targets along the way.

Pick a goal, own it, and become it.


So enough myths, how about some tips? Here are some tips for aspiring MMA fighters and regular guys trying to look like an ass-kicking man:

• Schedule recovery first. Recovery is priority number one. Always build your schedule around it, not training.

• Clean up the diet. Everyone thinks they eat better than they really do. Peri-workout nutrition is top priority.

• Get 8 hours of sleep a night. Humans are the only species that get up when they aren't supposed to and go to bed when they aren't supposed to. You can't perform if you're tired.

• Drink a gallon of water a day. You hear this a hundred times a day, but how many actually do it? Double your water intake and you'll feel better, perform better, and get leaner.

• Add strength training into the program. Circuit training is useless if you're weak. You must develop strength first.

• Sprint three to four days a week. Sprints not only lean you out, they build significant hamstring mass and power. Plus, look at sprinters — who wouldn't want to look like those guys?

• Fit circuits in only around the other MMA training. With circuits, a little goes a long way. As the technical demands of MMA training go up, things like circuits need to be scaled back.


The Heavy Stuff — Weight training exercises every MMA fighter and average dude should be doing and why.

• Deadlifts: "These could be the best exercise going, and definitely the most misunderstood. For fighters and weekend warriors alike, it's extremely functional. What's more functional than picking up a heavy object — like a gassed opponent?"

• Single-arm farmer's walks: "Most sports are unilateral. This exercise transfers well to the kicks and takedowns exhibited in MMA."

• One-arm dumbbell row: "Vertical pulls like chin-ups are important, but for MMA, the horizontal pull is crucial. You need to pull your opponent towards you to control him."

• Floor press: "This is an exercise that's crucial for MMA. If you're on your back, you need good pushing power to get an opponent off you and pass guard."

• Jump squats: "Great exercise for developing lower body power. Sets of six reps are ideal."

• Hamstring curl or glute-ham raise: "To control an opponent, you have to be able to recruit the hamstring by flexing at the knee. Hip extension movements like deadlift variations are not sufficient."

• Sit ups: "Trading spinal flexion for anti-rotation and plank variations is the trendy thing to do, but most submissions in MMA require some degree of spinal flexion. It's a mistake for fighters to leave them out completely."

• Neck harness: "The neck is the pillar of the body, but nobody trains the neck at all these days. The top guys all have extremely strong necks; to compete with the big boys, neck training is essential."

[fathead]

3 questions:

1) what is your general take on proscar or avodart?


2) whats the deal with site enhancing oils? they are huge talk on lots of american boards as if they are a regular thing but never on canadian boards. how many bbers really use this stuff and does it work? is there any permanence to the gains that may be attributed to them if they do in fact work?

3) similarly, on these american boards there is A LOT of talk of peptides ive never seen mentioned on canadian boards let alone heard of. can you shed some light on these? are they effective?

thanks

[Praetorian]

3 questions:

1) what is your general take on proscar or avodart?

**works in preventing hairloss while using DHT converting aas...ie testosterone..if you are prone to male pattern baldness


2) whats the deal with site enhancing oils? they are huge talk on lots of american boards as if they are a regular thing but never on canadian boards. how many bbers really use this stuff and does it work? is there any permanence to the gains that may be attributed to them if they do in fact work?

**many BB use them...many Pros use them...more than you might think...if done correctly they do what they are supposed to do "enhance" if done incorrectly they will destroy the shape of your muscles and you will look like an idiot. No the gains are not permanent as the oil eventually dissipates. There is talk about stretching the fascia but I have yet to see any real evidence of this. If you notice its use...then its being used incorrectly. Its like a bad hair piece...if you notice it...whats the point?

3) similarly, on these american boards there is A LOT of talk of peptides ive never seen mentioned on canadian boards let alone heard of. can you shed some light on these? are they effective?

**Americans go gaga over supplements and newly marketed muscle building items...whether its peptides, prohormones etc...they still like to believe all their heroes are natural and that if you eat your vitamins you too can be Mr Olympia. Canadians are a bit more level headed and tend not to fall for the marketing BS...theres alot of talk of these items but very little real proof that they actually produce any significant gains. I would suggest spending your hard earned money on things that are proven...ie HGH, aas etc

thanks


P

[fathead]

P

sorry, as far as proscar and avodart are concerned... im aware what the purpose of using them is (i use them myself)

my question was more geared towards what you think of them in terms of possible negative side effects? there seems to be a lot of guys on these boards who swear it ruins their libido among other hormone related issues but literature and studies suggest there should only be issues in a minute percentage of users...

on the same topic do you believe in the effectiveness of nizoral?

[Praetorian]

sorry, as far as proscar and avodart are concerned... im aware what the purpose of using them is (i use them myself)

my question was more geared towards what you think of them in terms of possible negative side effects? there seems to be a lot of guys on these boards who swear it ruins their libido among other hormone related issues but literature and studies suggest there should only be issues in a minute percentage of users...

on the same topic do you believe in the effectiveness of nizoral?

As for side effects....

Proscar has been thoroughly studied in clinical trials, with many people having been evaluated. In these studies, side effects occurring in the group of people taking the drug are always documented and compared to the side effects that occur in a similar group of people not taking the medicine.

Based on these studies, the most common side effects seen with finasteride 1 mg tablets include:

Decreased libido (sex drive) -- in up to 1.8 percent of people
Erectile dysfunction (impotence or ED) -- up to 1.3 percent
Decreased ejaculate amount -- up to 1.2 percent.


The combination of nizoral and propecia appears to prevent hair associated with dht conversion and mpb...i dont have personal experience so im only reporting what i have heard. I do have a friend who lost most of his hair over the years cycling aas but when he started finastride i would say 75% grew back. He experienced no sides.
P

[kg2105]

nice article P , some good advice .. funny guy 2. this quote had me dying.


"Look at how NFL players train: they lift, sprint, and stretch. They don't run into walls, train for three hours, or have guys smash them in the legs with bats because it 'mimics' a game situation."

[Praetorian]

Howdy Prae!

just wondering what your thoughts were on Walden Farm products such as calorie free, sugar and carb free dressings, sauces etc..? (in terms of keto) Good ones and bad?

How about balsamic vinegar in general?

thanks!

Off season i think they are fine but not for use on keto...its just too easy to overdo things...when you diet you diet get used to it...you have to make some sacrifices in life if you want to excel at something.
P

[Praetorian]

nice article P , some good advice .. funny guy 2. this quote had me dying.


"Look at how NFL players train: they lift, sprint, and stretch. They don't run into walls, train for three hours, or have guys smash them in the legs with bats because it 'mimics' a game situation."

Exactly yet every day I see these guys doing stupid sh*t in the gym that doesnt remotely translate into improving performance...they just think it looks cool so it must be good. Squats off a half ball, hanging from ropes doing pushups, kettle bell BS...but nobody wants to squat, deadlift or bench heavy, or do sprints, but they will run backwards on a treadmill...just dumb.
P

[IronMan]

Hey Prae, I've recently come across this article. I don't really agree with it myself, as "enhanced" athletes have a much greater ability to create protein synthesis in their bodies, and I'm sure everyone is not the same when it comes to their ability to digest protein. But here is the article and I'd be interested to see how you would dissect it lol.

QUESTION: How much protein can a bodybuilder or athlete absorb in one meal?

ANSWER: The amount of protein an athlete (or non-athlete) can absorb/metabolize is referred to as the protein threshold and is very specific. The storage capacity of proteins, also called the protein threshold, relates to the maximum amount of protein the human body can process without negative consequences. The protein threshold in humans has been well established in the scientific literature and in current research. One of the most interesting aspects of protein research is that, no matter how much a human weighs, the protein threshold is still the same: 30 grams of elemental protein. For example, in world class powerlifters (who weigh up to 400 pounds) the protein threshold does not exceed 30 grams within a 2-3 hour period. During the time I worked with Mr. Universe Ron Coleman (Editor’s Note: Just for clarification there are two champion bodybuilders named Ron Coleman – one is Mr. Universe and the other is eight-time Mr. Olympia) and the World Powerlifting Federation, my research team experimented with different forms of protein and varying levels of protein intake. Women powerlifters were squatting 650 pounds, and the men were lifting 1000 pounds! This gave us the perfect test subjects to determine the maximum amount of protein a human could metabolize at one time.

Additionally, the Glycemic Research Institute just completed a two million dollar research project on protein thresholding, which reflects the same findings as the study published in the February 2010 issue of the journal of Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise, in which researchers concluded that there is “Significantly reduced loss of lean body mass with increased protein compared with a normal protein diet in healthy lean athletes.”

The bottom line in protein research reflects the following guidelines:

• In world class bodybuilders, such as Mr. Olympia, who hold huge amounts of muscle mass and low amounts of body fat, regardless of weight or size or calories burned, the 30-gram protein rule does not change. The same holds true with other elite athletes.

• The average non-athlete does not require an intake of 30 grams of protein at one time and can achieve protein homeostasis by ingesting specific forms and amounts of protein throughout the day.

• Based on my research, using proteins at the 30-gram dose in an inappropriate ketogenic formula or product (proteins without carbohydrates) can cause serious problems, including ketosis, elevated liver enzymes, and liver strain.

• Some research suggests that humans ingesting ketogenic proteins (i.e., those without any carbs) and low carb meal replacement products may result in increased body fat levels via elevation of insulin and LPL fat storage in fat cells. Ketogenic protein drinks and meal replacements are contraindicated.

• Protein drinks and protein products that contain only sugar alcohols, certain synthetic sweeteners, and other non-carbohydrate ingredients may hinder healthy protein storage capacity and push the body into ketosis.

• For maximum growth hormone (GH) release, protein drinks should not be consumed near bedtime, as this causes lowered delta-stimulated GH and testosterone production.

• Proteins that contain high glycemic ingredients result in increased body fat levels via elevation of insulin, lipoprotein (LPL), and fat storage in adipose tissue fat cells.

The Doctor’s Prescription

Bodybuilders cannot metabolize more than 30 grams of protein at one time, regardless of athletic ability, energy output, weight or size. In terms of maximum muscle mass, the optimum protocol for an anabolic state is:

• Ingest 30 grams of protein combined with low glycemic carbohydrates, taken every 4 waking hours (not during or near sleep cycles).

• Do not ingest proteins 2 hours prior to sleep (avoids blunting GH).

• Do not ingest ketogenic proteins (protein without carbohydrates).

• Low glycemic carbohydrates are superior in protein drinks (as compared to high glycemic carbohydrates) for increasing lean muscle mass and decreasing body fat.

To read more of Dr. Ann de Wees' work, please visit his website at: www.anndeweesallen.com. If you have a bodybuilding question you want answered, email us at: questions@muscle-insider.com

[Praetorian]

Hey Prae, I've recently come across this article. I don't really agree with it myself, as "enhanced" athletes have a much greater ability to create protein synthesis in their bodies, and I'm sure everyone is not the same when it comes to their ability to digest protein. But here is the article and I'd be interested to see how you would dissect it lol.

QUESTION: How much protein can a bodybuilder or athlete absorb in one meal?

ANSWER: The amount of protein an athlete (or non-athlete) can absorb/metabolize is referred to as the protein threshold and is very specific. The storage capacity of proteins, also called the protein threshold, relates to the maximum amount of protein the human body can process without negative consequences. The protein threshold in humans has been well established in the scientific literature and in current research. One of the most interesting aspects of protein research is that, no matter how much a human weighs, the protein threshold is still the same: 30 grams of elemental protein. For example, in world class powerlifters (who weigh up to 400 pounds) the protein threshold does not exceed 30 grams within a 2-3 hour period. During the time I worked with Mr. Universe Ron Coleman (Editor’s Note: Just for clarification there are two champion bodybuilders named Ron Coleman – one is Mr. Universe and the other is eight-time Mr. Olympia) and the World Powerlifting Federation, my research team experimented with different forms of protein and varying levels of protein intake. Women powerlifters were squatting 650 pounds, and the men were lifting 1000 pounds! This gave us the perfect test subjects to determine the maximum amount of protein a human could metabolize at one time.

Additionally, the Glycemic Research Institute just completed a two million dollar research project on protein thresholding, which reflects the same findings as the study published in the February 2010 issue of the journal of Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise, in which researchers concluded that there is “Significantly reduced loss of lean body mass with increased protein compared with a normal protein diet in healthy lean athletes.”

The bottom line in protein research reflects the following guidelines:

• In world class bodybuilders, such as Mr. Olympia, who hold huge amounts of muscle mass and low amounts of body fat, regardless of weight or size or calories burned, the 30-gram protein rule does not change. The same holds true with other elite athletes.

• The average non-athlete does not require an intake of 30 grams of protein at one time and can achieve protein homeostasis by ingesting specific forms and amounts of protein throughout the day.

• Based on my research, using proteins at the 30-gram dose in an inappropriate ketogenic formula or product (proteins without carbohydrates) can cause serious problems, including ketosis, elevated liver enzymes, and liver strain.

• Some research suggests that humans ingesting ketogenic proteins (i.e., those without any carbs) and low carb meal replacement products may result in increased body fat levels via elevation of insulin and LPL fat storage in fat cells. Ketogenic protein drinks and meal replacements are contraindicated.

• Protein drinks and protein products that contain only sugar alcohols, certain synthetic sweeteners, and other non-carbohydrate ingredients may hinder healthy protein storage capacity and push the body into ketosis.

• For maximum growth hormone (GH) release, protein drinks should not be consumed near bedtime, as this causes lowered delta-stimulated GH and testosterone production.

• Proteins that contain high glycemic ingredients result in increased body fat levels via elevation of insulin, lipoprotein (LPL), and fat storage in adipose tissue fat cells.

The Doctor’s Prescription

Bodybuilders cannot metabolize more than 30 grams of protein at one time, regardless of athletic ability, energy output, weight or size. In terms of maximum muscle mass, the optimum protocol for an anabolic state is:

• Ingest 30 grams of protein combined with low glycemic carbohydrates, taken every 4 waking hours (not during or near sleep cycles).

• Do not ingest proteins 2 hours prior to sleep (avoids blunting GH).

• Do not ingest ketogenic proteins (protein without carbohydrates).

• Low glycemic carbohydrates are superior in protein drinks (as compared to high glycemic carbohydrates) for increasing lean muscle mass and decreasing body fat.

To read more of Dr. Ann de Wees' work, please visit his website at: www.anndeweesallen.com. If you have a bodybuilding question you want answered, email us at: questions@muscle-insider.com



Complete and utter BS...people are still spewing this garbage after it has been debunked many many times. This antiquated information is based on outdated, inaccurate, and incomplete studies and information.
The human body adapts very easily to many things...protein consumption being one of them. Think about this...in the last 20,000 years the human body has not evolved at all...thus the diet that is still most efficient is the paleolithic diet. No ask yourself how did humans eat back then...oh by killing an animal and gorging on it...did they cut it up and put 30g chunks of meat into the fridge to eat later...WTF...what fridge? They ate as much as they could because food was scarce and who knows when they would feed again.
And to think a 300lb BB cannot digest more protein then a 200lb BB...it quite simple isnt it.
P

[IronMan]

Complete and utter BS...people are still spewing this garbage after it has been debunked many many times. This antiquated information is based on outdated, inaccurate, and incomplete studies and information.
The human body adapts very easily to many things...protein consumption being one of them. Think about this...in the last 20,000 years the human body has not evolved at all...thus the diet that is still most efficient is the paleolithic diet. No ask yourself how did humans eat back then...oh by killing an animal and gorging on it...did they cut it up and put 30g chunks of meat into the fridge to eat later...WTF...what fridge? They ate as much as they could because food was scarce and who knows when they would feed again.
And to think a 300lb BB cannot digest more protein then a 200lb BB...it quite simple isnt it.
P

I TOTALLY agree with you P!! I just finished reading the book Paleolithic Diet and it made a lot of sense. I can't believe Scott posted this article on his website. I don't under stand why he did so, maybe he was wanting to stir up some conversation on it. If so, it worked. It was total outdated bullsh!t like you said. Thanks for the reply Prae, much appreciated! :)

[japh]

All the big and strong guys say eat 300 to 400 grams of protein a day. All the skinny and weak guys say you only need 100 grams of protein a day. No studies are needed :)

[#8]

For someone who is extremely sensitive to stimulants (ie. anxiety symptoms from 200mg of caffeine in a serving) would you recommend clenbuterol or albuterol over an ephedrine or synephrine alternative?

Or would you recommend nothing at all to be on the safe side?

[Praetorian]

For someone who is extremely sensitive to stimulants (ie. anxiety symptoms from 200mg of caffeine in a serving) would you recommend clenbuterol or albuterol over an ephedrine or synephrine alternative?

Or would you recommend nothing at all to be on the safe side?

Clenbuterol because it is a beta 2 specific agonist...this means it does not stimulate beta 1-3 receptors. Ephedrine and caffeine are non specific beta agonists which means they can affect all beta receptors....ie specifically heart and CNS which leads to the stimulant effect. Albuterol is useless and does not promote fat loss.
P

[#8]

so try using 10mcg of clen and work my way up from there?

[Vitamin S]

hi p,

i have this pain in my upper right bicep where it kinda meets the armpit. like it feels as if there some a bad not or nerve entrapment. i feel it when i am benching like when lowering it, and on also on dumbells and aswell i notice the right arm gives up faster when pushing with dumbells. i am not sure what stretch to do it feels painfull when i press down on the inside of the bicep next to armpit with my thumb.

thanks.

[Vitamin S]

p,

what should be taken as for supplements are concerned to protect prostate on cycle? when should this be started and run for how long? and what are possible or most common signs that prostate is being effected such as enlargement from aas use while on, i heard once u stop shortly after that the prostate drops down to its normal size and symptoms subside is this true?

thx pal

[Praetorian]

so try using 10mcg of clen and work my way up from there?

That should be fine. Remember the shakes you feel from clen is not a stimulant effect.
P

[Praetorian]

hi p,

i have this pain in my upper right bicep where it kinda meets the armpit. like it feels as if there some a bad not or nerve entrapment. i feel it when i am benching like when lowering it, and on also on dumbells and aswell i notice the right arm gives up faster when pushing with dumbells. i am not sure what stretch to do it feels painfull when i press down on the inside of the bicep next to armpit with my thumb.

thanks.

Sounds like a nerve issue...you may want to check with a chiro who has alot of experience with athletes...maybe some ART would help.
P

[Praetorian]

p,

what should be taken as for supplements are concerned to protect prostate on cycle? when should this be started and run for how long? and what are possible or most common signs that prostate is being effected such as enlargement from aas use while on, i heard once u stop shortly after that the prostate drops down to its normal size and symptoms subside is this true?

thx pal

If you had enlarged prostate you would mos likely experience some or all of these sides:

Problems urinating.
An inability to urinate at all.
Difficulty controlling urine flow.
Frequent urination.
Frequent visits to the bathroom at night.
A weak flow of urine.
An intermittent flow of urine.
Pain or a burning sensation when urinating.
Problems achieving or maintaining an erection.
The presence of blood in the urine or semen.
Pain in the lower back, upper thigh or hips


I have yet to see any literature proving that BPH is caused by aas. Many aging men experience BPH at one time or another....and their test levels have dropped significantly. There are many theories to the causes of BPH including:

1. HORMONIC THEORY: As age advances , male hormones diminish, while estrogen does not. Tissues are enlarged due to predominance of estrogenic hormone. This is involuntary hyperplasia like fibro adenoma of breast.

2. NEOPLASTIC THEORY: Benign neoplasm. It is composed of fibrous tissues, granular tissues and muscles and is known as fibro-myo-adenoma.

PATHOLOGY:

Prostate enlargement is strongly related to normal aging. Some of the factors involved are quite well understood. Nevertheless, there also is substantial disagreement about other issues. BPH can be called an aspect of male menopause because an increased ratio of estrogen to testosterone is active in BPH just as, conversely, in women passing through menopause the ratio of testosterone to estrogen increases. It is generally accepted that hormone ratios and hormone clearance are involved in BPH, but the exact ways in which these lead to the enlargement has yet to be definitively explained. Testosterone, the "male" hormone, is at its peak during adolescence. It decreases thereafter, and the rate of decrease sharpens by about age 50. The decline in testosterone production typically calls into play the compensatory release of other hormones which are stimulants to testosterone production. These cannot prevent the decline in testosterone levels, but they can lead to an elevated rate of transformation of testosterone into 5-alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and/or to the increased binding and/or to the decreased clearance of DHT from prostate cells. Testosterone is converted to DHT by the enzyme 5-alpha-reductase. Ultimately, it is DHT's actions which cause the enlargement of the prostate. DHT binds to specific receptors on the prostate cells usually referred to as androgen receptors. It then is transported into the nucleus of these cells where it attaches to the DNA and ultimately turns on prostate growth. As will be explored in more detail below, current research indicates that DHT is a necessary, but not a sufficient cause in the etiology of BPH.


Whether or not these prove true is another story.

Items that may help:

SAW PALMETTO BERRY EXTRACT (STANDARDIZED TO CONTAIN 85-95% FATTY ACIDS)

Saw Palmetto is a palm tree native to Florida. Numerous double-blind studies have shown an extract of the berries to significantly improve the signs and symptoms of benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) - a condition that affects approximately 5 to 10% of males at age 30 and increases in incidence to eventually affect more than 90% of men over 85 years of age. Roughly 90% of men with mild to moderate BPH experience some improvement in symptoms during the first 4 to 6 weeks of therapy. All major symptoms of BPH are improved, especially nighttime urination (nocturia). The mechanism of action is related to improving the hormonal metabolism within the prostate gland. The overwhelming majority of the studies have utilized fat-soluble saw palmetto extracts standardized to contain 85-95% fatty acids and sterols.

BETA-SITOSTEROL

Beta-sitosterol is a plant sterol similar in structure to cholesterol. Bet-sitosterol has been found to be a powerful nutritional supplement for prostate health. Most of the recent interest and use of beta-sitosterol has been in its ability to improve benign prostatic hyperplasia. In one of the better double-blind studies, 200 men with BPH were given either beta-sitosterol (20 mg) or placebo three times daily. The beta-sitosterol group demonstrated significant improvements in maximum urine flow rate and the amount of urine left in the bladder after urination, both good indicators of bladder obstruction due to BPH.

NETTLE ROOT EXTRACT

The modern use of stinging nettles has focused on its effects in benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH). Several double-blind studies have shown stinging nettle root extracts to exert significant benefits in improving BPH symptoms as well as objective measurement such as urinary outflow. Its mechanism of action in BPH appears to be the result of its ability to modulate the stimulant effect on prostate cells by male sex hormones as well as a mild anti-inflammatory effect. One double-blind, placebo-controlled study of 50 men showed a statistically highly significant decrease of the sex hormone binding globulin in the group treated with the nettle extract and well as a significant improvement of micturition (voiding of urine) volume and maximum urinary flow.

RED CLOVER EXTRACT

Red clover contains high amounts of "phytoestrogens" - naturally occurring plant compounds that bind to estrogen receptor sites in humans. Red clover has been shown to limit the development of benign prostate hyperplasia.

TURMERIC EXTRACT (Curcuma longa) (95% CURCUMIN)

The anti-cancer effects of turmeric and curcumin have been demonstrated at all steps of cancer formation: initiation, promotion and progression. In addition to inhibiting the development of cancer, data obtained from several studies suggest that curcumin can also promote cancer regression when cancer is present. The protective effects of curcumin are only partially explained by its direct antioxidant effect. Other anti-cancer effects noted include the ability to: inhibit the formation of cancer-causing nitrosamines; enhance the body's levels of anti-cancer compounds such as glutathione; and promote the proper detoxification of cancer-causing compounds by the liver. Animal studies have shown that curcumin causes a marked decrease in the extent of prostate cell proliferation and a significant increase in prostate cancer cell apoptosis (death). The authors suggest that curcumin could be a potentially therapeutic anti-cancer agent, as it significantly inhibits prostate cancer growth.

FLOWER POLLEN EXTRACT

Studies show that standardized flower pollen extract is well tolerated and improves overall urological symptoms, including nocturia. Sixty patients with BPH were given either Cernilton (a standardized flower pollen extract) or placebo. This double-blind, placebo-controlled study showed that there was a significant subjective improvement in 69% of the patients compared with placebo. Authors concluded that this flower pollen extract "has a beneficial effect in BPH and may have a place in the treatment of patients with mild or moderate symptoms of outflow obstruction."

PYGEUM AFRICANUM 913% STEROLS)

Pygeum africanum is an evergreen tree native to Africa that can grow to a height of 120-150 feet. An extract made from the dark-brown to gray bark of the trunk has been well-studied in the treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH). Over 30 clinical studies including a dozen double-blind studies have shown pygeum extract to be effective in improving the major symptoms of BPH (nighttime urinary frequency, difficulty in starting urination, and incomplete emptying of the bladder.)

LYCOPENE

Lycopene is a red-coloured carotene found primarily in tomatoes that has potent antioxidant and anti-cancer properties. In one study conducted by Harvard researchers of all of the carotenoids, only lycopene was clearly linked to protection against prostate cancer. The men who had the greatest amounts of lycopene (6.5 mg per day) in their diet showed a 21% decreased risk of prostate cancer compared with those eating the least. When the researchers looked at only advanced prostate cancer, the high lycopene eaters had an 86% decreased risk (although this did not reach statistical significance due to the small number of cases).

Lyco-O-Mato Powder contains lycopene plus other beneficial tomato phytonutrients including other carotenoids and tocopherols. These antioxidant phytonutrients, acting in synergy with lycopene, transform an ordinary food into a functional food with numerous health benefits, including the support of cardiovascular and prostate health and prevention of DNA damage.

Ultimate Prostate Support by Natural Factors brings together the best-studied herbs and plant extracts for prostate health throughout life. Ideally, this formula should be part of an overall health approach that includes exercise, and a diet rich in zinc and essential fatty acids and low in alcohol. However, there is a proviso: any man who is experiencing prostate problems should not self-medicate but always see his physician first to obtain a proper diagnosis.

References:
1. Berges, R.R., R.D., et al, "Randomized placebo-controlled, double-blind clinical trial of beta-stiosterol in patients with benign prostatic hyperplasia." Beta-sitosterol Study Group. Lancet. 1995; Jun 17; 345 (8964): 1529-32.
2. Vontobel, H.P., Herzog, R., et al., "Results of a double-blind study on the effectiveness of ERU capsules in conservative treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia." Urologe A. 1985; Jan 24(1):49-51.
3. Dorai, T., Ccao, Y.C., et al., "Curcumin inhibits proliferation, induces apoptosis, and inhibits angiogenesis of LNCaP prostate cancer cells in vivo." Prostate 2001; 47: 293-303.
4. Buck, A.C., Cox, R., et al., "Treatment of outflow tract obstruction due to benign prostatic hyperplasia with the pollen extract, cernilton. A double-blind, placebo-controlled study;" Br J Urol 1990; October; 66(4):398-404.
5. Gann, P.H., Giovannucci, E, Willett, W. et al., "Lower prostate cancer risk in men with elevated plasma lycopene levels: results of a prospective analysis." Cancer Res 1999; 59:1225-30.


P

[#8]

That should be fine. Remember the shakes you feel from clen is not a stimulant effect.
P

so the shakes is not like ephedrine shakes? my heart wont be racing?

[z83]

mostly hands shaking
have something for cramps

[Praetorian]

so the shakes is not like ephedrine shakes? my heart wont be racing?

No it's not...clenbuterol can lower blood pressure hence the heart will increase slightly to compensate...many incorrectly attribute this to a stimulant effect. At such a low dosage you shouldn't experience much in the way of cramping.
P

[#8]

So dose 10mcg a for a week or so then bump it up to 20, then 30, then take 2-3 weeks off? Is that how clen is cycled? 2/3 on 2/3 off?

[Praetorian]

So dose 10mcg a for a week or so then bump it up to 20, then 30, then take 2-3 weeks off? Is that how clen is cycled? 2/3 on 2/3 off?

Start at 10mcg per day for a week, then bump to 20mcg per day for a week then increase by 20mcg every two weeks until you hit 120mcg max. There is no need to go off for 2-3 weeks the body will not attenuate that fast as long as you slowly but steadily increase the dosage over time. You can run clen for 16 weeks without issues and with maximum effect.
P

[#8]

The thing is, Im not looking to compete or anything like that, I just want a boost when it comes to energy levels this spring and some fat loss aid when Im dieting.

[nisser]

I have this problem almost every time I bulk. I hit a period where the weight isn't going up, strength is steady but I'm gaining visible fat around the waist. For the past month, my weight has gone up by barely 1lb but I've noticed quite a bit of more fat around the waist.

haven't really changed the diet much - 6 roughly equal 500 cal meals + about 600cals in nuts/fruit throughout the day in snacks.

what can I do to avoid this/break it?

[Praetorian]

The thing is, Im not looking to compete or anything like that, I just want a boost when it comes to energy levels this spring and some fat loss aid when Im dieting.

Competing or not makes no difference...you either run clen correctly or you dont. Clen does NOT provide extra energy.
P

[Praetorian]

I have this problem almost every time I bulk. I hit a period where the weight isn't going up, strength is steady but I'm gaining visible fat around the waist. For the past month, my weight has gone up by barely 1lb but I've noticed quite a bit of more fat around the waist.

haven't really changed the diet much - 6 roughly equal 500 cal meals + about 600cals in nuts/fruit throughout the day in snacks.

what can I do to avoid this/break it?

If your carb levels are too high you'll gain fat...you can also start to incorporate cardio 3-4 times weekly. Are you on aas?
P

[#8]

Competing or not makes no difference...you either run clen correctly or you dont. Clen does NOT provide extra energy.
P

I just meant my goals are not to get below 5-6% BF. I wanna get to a healthy weight this summer and try to maintain it with a clean diet.


Another question though:

What would a typical bicep tricep workout look like if my goals are size and strength while on a massive calorie intake?

I currently do 3-4 heavy working sets of close grip bench, then follow it with weighted dips with roughly 40lbs for as many as I can do for 4 sets, then finish with cables.

Biceps is 3-4 heavy working sets conc curl with a dumbell, then preacher curls for 3-4 heavy working sets, then finish with a reverse grip cable curl for a few higher rep sets, not maxing out.

Is that too much? Not enough?

[Praetorian]

I just meant my goals are not to get below 5-6% BF. I wanna get to a healthy weight this summer and try to maintain it with a clean diet.


Another question though:

What would a typical bicep tricep workout look like if my goals are size and strength while on a massive calorie intake?

I currently do 3-4 heavy working sets of close grip bench, then follow it with weighted dips with roughly 40lbs for as many as I can do for 4 sets, then finish with cables.

Biceps is 3-4 heavy working sets conc curl with a dumbell, then preacher curls for 3-4 heavy working sets, then finish with a reverse grip cable curl for a few higher rep sets, not maxing out.

Is that too much? Not enough?


You arent going to get to 5-6% just because you do some clen....that would be nice but its not reality. In order to get to 5-6% you will need to be on a pre-contest type diet, as well as be doing significant cardio and running the clen correctly..even then it may be tough. The only difference between competing or not would be aas usage and type, as well as duration of the diet. You need to use a minimum amount of clen etc to get any effect at all...if your diet is not strict enough you will see little if any results.
Biceps and triceps should be trained the saem whether you are dieting or gaining....3 exercises each with 3-4 sets per exercise. Warm up and start with a heavy compound exercise...ie barbell curls, then move on to dumbell curls, and finally a more isolation exercise like preacher dumbells or cables. Triceps you could start with close grip benches or weights dips...add a 100lb dumbell to your waist with a belt, then move on to over head extensions, and finally reverse grip cable pull downs.
P

[Praetorian]

I just meant my goals are not to get below 5-6% BF. I wanna get to a healthy weight this summer and try to maintain it with a clean diet.


Another question though:

What would a typical bicep tricep workout look like if my goals are size and strength while on a massive calorie intake?

I currently do 3-4 heavy working sets of close grip bench, then follow it with weighted dips with roughly 40lbs for as many as I can do for 4 sets, then finish with cables.

Biceps is 3-4 heavy working sets conc curl with a dumbell, then preacher curls for 3-4 heavy working sets, then finish with a reverse grip cable curl for a few higher rep sets, not maxing out.

Is that too much? Not enough?


...

[#8]

You arent going to get to 5-6% just because you do some clen....that would be nice but its not reality. In order to get to 5-6% you will need to be on a pre-contest type diet, as well as be doing significant cardio and running the clen correctly..even then it may be tough. The only difference between competing or not would be aas usage and type, as well as duration of the diet. You need to use a minimum amount of clen etc to get any effect at all...if your diet is not strict enough you will see little if any results.
Biceps and triceps should be trained the saem whether you are dieting or gaining....3 exercises each with 3-4 sets per exercise. Warm up and start with a heavy compound exercise...ie barbell curls, then move on to dumbell curls, and finally a more isolation exercise like preacher dumbells or cables. Triceps you could start with close grip benches or weights dips...add a 100lb dumbell to your waist with a belt, then move on to over head extensions, and finally reverse grip cable pull downs.
P

Ya I didnt mean to infer the clen was going to make me lean, I am going to start a very strict diet in several months time and just a burner for a little help if my progress gets stale or slows. Thanks though.

[nisser]

If your carb levels are too high you'll gain fat...you can also start to incorporate cardio 3-4 times weekly. Are you on aas?
P

Yes but it happens off aas as well. I'm just confused why my weight is not moving but I'm gaining fat. Also carbs tend to be the last thing I up when I'm adding calories; its usually nuts or boiled eggs b/c its easy to quantify and add.

[Praetorian]

Yes but it happens off aas as well. I'm just confused why my weight is not moving but I'm gaining fat. Also carbs tend to be the last thing I up when I'm adding calories; its usually nuts or boiled eggs b/c its easy to quantify and add.

Then you need to look at either training or cycle. Is your strength increasing over time? What is your weight and what are your best lifts in the basics? What does your cycle look like? Are you doing any cardio?
P

[nisser]

Then you need to look at either training or cycle. Is your strength increasing over time? What is your weight and what are your best lifts in the basics? What does your cycle look like? Are you doing any cardio?
P

Everything goes up until I hit a point where weight and strength stalls but I seem to gain fat, particularly around the waist but also some around the pecs. I'm ok with fat but I wish the weight would go up also because right now it just seems like I'm changing the composition for the worse.

I guess the weight stalled on week 10 of eq/test. so from week 10-13, the fat has gone up with no weight/strength increase.

[Praetorian]

Everything goes up until I hit a point where weight and strength stalls but I seem to gain fat, particularly around the waist but also some around the pecs. I'm ok with fat but I wish the weight would go up also because right now it just seems like I'm changing the composition for the worse.

I guess the weight stalled on week 10 of eq/test. so from week 10-13, the fat has gone up with no weight/strength increase.

If your strength has also stalled along with weight gain then your body has basically adapted to your training and aas cycle. Which means your intensity has remained at the same level instead of increasing. You also may have attenuated to the aas you are using which is quite common at the 10 week point. Its a good idea to change compounds at the 8 week point because of this reason.
P

[nisser]

Ive switched to NPP now for a few weeks but then I will come off. What's a good way to break this plateua? I'm leary about eating more and my training has been pretty heavy and to failure; usually 2-4 sets per exercise and 3-4 excerises per bodypart.

[Praetorian]

Ive switched to NPP now for a few weeks but then I will come off. What's a good way to break this plateua? I'm leary about eating more and my training has been pretty heavy and to failure; usually 2-4 sets per exercise and 3-4 excerises per bodypart.

I would suggest going off...running PCT...getting blood work done than planning a new cycle using test and an anabolic switching compounds midway. Also you need to look at your training...training to failure does not mean your intensity level is as high as it could be. You might also want to start training with a partner to help push your limits.
P

[massabsamurai]

would u be able to help me out with finding fiberlyze locally P?

[Praetorian]

would u be able to help me out with finding fiberlyze locally P?

I dont believe anyone in Ontario carries it anymore....you may have to purchase from the US.
P

[nisser]

I would suggest going off...running PCT...getting blood work done than planning a new cycle using test and an anabolic switching compounds midway. Also you need to look at your training...training to failure does not mean your intensity level is as high as it could be. You might also want to start training with a partner to help push your limits.
P

Is there anything I can do food wise to help with this? Or would cardio after a workout help at all?

I plan to get off in 2 weeks for sure but I just don't see that helping much with it. I plan to take a week or so off after I get off as well, since I haven't taken a break since sept.

[Praetorian]

Is there anything I can do food wise to help with this? Or would cardio after a workout help at all?

I plan to get off in 2 weeks for sure but I just don't see that helping much with it. I plan to take a week or so off after I get off as well, since I haven't taken a break since sept.

When you go off and run PCT you are not trying to gain weight just maintain so you will need to adjust your calorie levels so you dont put on fat. Cardio 3 times per week is fine as long as its not high intensity while on PCT. A break will do you good...your receptors are most likely down regulated anyways and need time to rejuvenate.
P

[natenator]

would u be able to help me out with finding fiberlyze locally P?
I purchase mine from the us and have it shipped to a us addy. I buy about 10 containers at a time.

[Shaun73]

quick question

What would put less stress on my liver; 75mg proviron oral ed or 50-75mg winstril depot injected every other day

I want to add one to my cycle for a hardening effect.

800mg test/week
600mg deca/week

[Shaun73]

quick question

What would put less stress on my liver; 75mg proviron oral ed or 50-75mg winstril depot injected every other day

I want to add one to my cycle for a hardening effect.

800mg test/week
600mg deca/week

[Shaun73]

sorry for posting 2x i had a connection error

[Praetorian]

quick question

What would put less stress on my liver; 75mg proviron oral ed or 50-75mg winstril depot injected every other day

I want to add one to my cycle for a hardening effect.

800mg test/week
600mg deca/week

If you are not on a pre-contest type diet and less then 7-8% BF than using a cosmetic hardener is a waste of money. You wont see much effect if you arent lean. Proviron is useless for hardening...its an outdated redundant drug nowadays with the third generation AI's available. Masteron and/or winstrol are ideal hardeners but require very low BF to see dramatic results. If you are offseason tren would be a better idea because at least it helps with muscle growth and strength.
P

[nisser]

What do you think is the best diet to follow for growth that also minimizes fat gain. I've been following this diet of 6 meals of 15fat/50carb/40pro and have really stuck to it well.

I'd like to continue for another year with no shedding breaks. Is this diet optimal or is there a better split?

[fathead]

2 questions:

1) what are your thoughts as beans as a carb source (assume when dieting)... say a mix of 1/2 beans 1/2 rice for some variety

2) are there any convenience foods that you use or dont have issues with? for example pre cooked chicken strips, rice pouches, canned foods, etc. Obviously they are not 100% ideal but in a pinch?

[Praetorian]

What do you think is the best diet to follow for growth that also minimizes fat gain. I've been following this diet of 6 meals of 15fat/50carb/40pro and have really stuck to it well.

I'd like to continue for another year with no shedding breaks. Is this diet optimal or is there a better split?

Diet is fine...could use a bit more fat. I would suggest a lean out diet at least once per year....youll get a nice rebound and gaining too long will deposit too much fat....its inevitable.
P

[Praetorian]

2 questions:

1) what are your thoughts as beans as a carb source (assume when dieting)... say a mix of 1/2 beans 1/2 rice for some variety

2) are there any convenience foods that you use or dont have issues with? for example pre cooked chicken strips, rice pouches, canned foods, etc. Obviously they are not 100% ideal but in a pinch?



1) fine

2) NONE...make a shake

P

[O-Train]

Read this on another site. Curious what you think: "The TRUTH about Pro Bodybuilding and Hormones from an ex national competitor

I was a top 3 placing national competitor in my twenties. I placed second in my weight class (super heavyweight) a number of times at the national level, effectively just missing an IFBB pro card. I stopped competing because I wanted to raise a family in good health. I am still well immersed in the bodybuilding industry, and while I stopped a couple years ago, I spent nearly a decade giving hormone advice to competitors as a "guru."

What do the pros really use?
Despite what some would like to believe, not many guys go over 2-2.5 grams of test per week. The typical hormone amount of a mid-level IFBB pro is about 5-6 grams of injectable hormones per week. In addition add in various cycles of orals (usually just dianabol and anadrol - used both offseason and precontest to 'fill out'). 20+ iu's of gh is common, especially as the insulin usage increases as well. Insulin is the #1 factor in creating the biggest bodybuilders. Most successful pros are scared to eat food without using slin. Most pros are on a shitload of random peptides, not because they do a whole lot but because they want every single miniscule edge that may be possible. That means add in IGF-1, MGF and PGF into the mix. Also, they never came off. "off cycle" means being on test, eq, gh and slin.

How common is synthol?
everyone uses site enhancement oils, almost always in the biceps, calves and delts. I dont know any IFBB pro who hasnt used synthol. the whole fst-7 training protocol that is so popular today is entirely based around the usage of synthol.

What causes the 'GH GUT?'
too much insulin over a short period of time. its not intestinal enlargement pushing out the stomach walls. While there are a host of IGF-1 receptors in the intestines, the localized growth that occurs isnt enough to permanentally stretch the abdominal muscle walls, that is absurd. Excessive insulin usage over a short period of time (usually to put on 20-30lbs 6 months or a year) leads to visceral fat buildup. In addition, the constant contest yo-yo dieting combined with the massive over-eating of "bulking" leads to visceral fat buildup that is never lost because the diets dont last long enough to effect it. Add in carb loading, you will see huge guts with distention.

Is anyone really natural?
very few natural bodybuilders are actually natural. To be a high placing natural bodybuilder (in the natural leagues) you need to be at least using a fair amount of otc prohormones/designer steroids. Superdrol and pheraplex are two favorites among the natural crowd. A fair amount of naturals take 400-500mg's/week of test. These are usually the top, top guys. Anavar is also popular. Of course the guys that have been doing it for a while and still compete/market their natural physique are on 5-10 iu's of gh."

[Praetorian]

I would say the article is pretty close to the truth on most things. The only subject I would have to disagree with are the pros dosages etc...I know many pros and not one uses 5-6 grams of aas per week. To generalize like that is misleading to say the least. Im not saying there arent guys using that much but it varies by individual. Some use alot less some use alot more....it usually comes down to what is available and how much they can afford. Also some guys do come off and some guys dont...it varies by the individual. The top guys are there because of genetics not gear...if everyone used the same exact stuff and dosage the top guys would still be on top.
P

[fathead]

Prae- could you touch a bit on the role the CNS plays in bodybuilding?

How does it work?
what does it do exactly?
how do you burn it out?

Also, this may sound dumb, but is the cns a single system that operates as a whole or can it be looked at more specifically say by body part... basically if you taxed the shit out of it training legs for example would it still be fried if you were to train upper body before it recovered from the leg training.

thanks

[Praetorian]

Prae- could you touch a bit on the role the CNS plays in bodybuilding?

How does it work?
what does it do exactly?
how do you burn it out?

Also, this may sound dumb, but is the cns a single system that operates as a whole or can it be looked at more specifically say by body part... basically if you taxed the shit out of it training legs for example would it still be fried if you were to train upper body before it recovered from the leg training.

thanks

The CNS "central nervous system" operates as an overall body system...you cannot separate it by body part etc. If the CNS is fatigued you need to rest it in order to allow it to fully recover. Lets say every week a person tries to increase his lifting poundages…which means training to 100% failure...this means CNS has to increase its neurotransmitter release every week but the rate of re synthesis remains the same…no more strength gains occur mainly due to deficiency of neurotransmitters by the CNS and the limited ability to fully utilize the muscle contraction...generally no more strength gains = no more muscle gains...this is where the deload phase comes into play or by alternating the level of intensity in the workout.
P

[fathead]

The CNS "central nervous system" operates as an overall body system...you cannot separate it by body part etc. If the CNS is fatigued you need to rest it in order to allow it to fully recover. Lets say every week a person tries to increase his lifting poundages…which means training to 100% failure...this means CNS has to increase its neurotransmitter release every week but the rate of re synthesis remains the same…no more strength gains occur mainly due to deficiency of neurotransmitters by the CNS and the limited ability to fully utilize the muscle contraction...generally no more strength gains = no more muscle gains...this is where the deload phase comes into play or by alternating the level of intensity in the workout.
P

so how does one maximize efficiency of the cns? tax it and then rest it and then re tax it?

would you say that training 5 days straight with 2 off would be harder on the cns than a break mid week and one on weekends instead?

[Praetorian]

so how does one maximize efficiency of the cns? tax it and then rest it and then re tax it?

would you say that training 5 days straight with 2 off would be harder on the cns than a break mid week and one on weekends instead?

The idea is not how to tax the CNS maximally but to train with the highest level of intensity for the maximum amount of time before running into CNS issues. That is where training periodization, conjugate method, de-loading all come into play. You can only push yourself at the peak level of performance for so long....before needing a break.
Never train more than 3 days in a row without a break.
P

[z83]

Hi P,

Do you like potatoes for carbs ??? I've had boiled potatoes 3 times last few weeks and I felt very good during and after my workout. Felt full, not bloated. My only carb sources are 30g : oats, ezekiel bread and brown rice (I can't eat rice every days)

Thanks

z83

[Praetorian]

Hi P,

Do you like potatoes for carbs ??? I've had boiled potatoes 3 times last few weeks and I felt very good during and after my workout. Felt full, not bloated. My only carb sources are 30g : oats, ezekiel bread and brown rice (I can't eat rice every days)

Thanks

z83

Potato's are fine.
P

[japh]

Hey P,

I was wondering if you had any knowledge on how to fast track the healing process with regards to bicep tendons. They burn up and down both arms while training and stability is severely inhibited with heavy weight.

I have just recently gone back on cycle after being off for over a year and a half. In the first month strength gains have been silly. Even holding back a bit I still managed to strain them moving up in weight to fast.

This seems to happen to me half the time I cycle and makes stabilizing and lifting heavy weight for more than a few sets in a chest routine very difficult. They are slow to heal and a real nagging injury.

Other than time off and lighter weight is there a medication that can help?

Is there an additional "super supplement" that may help?

I was thinking deca to mask the injury perhaps combined with a prescription inti-inflammatory? I'm not sure if deca would even mask a tendon strain?

I know the real answer is just to take time off and rest them to heal. I want to train through it though. I only have so much time to build before I start my cut. I enjoy strength training during the building phase.

Thank-you for any insight you might have

[natenator]

Hey P,

I was wondering if you had any knowledge on how to fast track the healing process with regards to bicep tendons. They burn up and down both arms while training and stability is severely inhibited with heavy weight.

I have just recently gone back on cycle after being off for over a year and a half. In the first month strength gains have been silly. Even holding back a bit I still managed to strain them moving up in weight to fast.

This seems to happen to me half the time I cycle and makes stabilizing and lifting heavy weight for more than a few sets in a chest routine very difficult. They are slow to heal and a real nagging injury.

Other than time off and lighter weight is there a medication that can help?

Is there an additional "super supplement" that may help?

I was thinking deca to mask the injury perhaps combined with a prescription inti-inflammatory? I'm not sure if deca would even mask a tendon strain?

I know the real answer is just to take time off and rest them to heal. I want to train through it though. I only have so much time to build before I start my cut. I enjoy strength training during the building phase.

Thank-you for any insight you might have

Take it from someone who has tried to work through his injuries for the past year+. That's not the right way to do it. Heal your injuries.

You aren't and won't be a pro bodybuilder and you probably won't ever make a living from your body. Its more important to be healthy than to be in pain.

[Praetorian]

Nate is correct...you really need to rest the tendons or you risk rupturing them. I ruptured both bicep tendons and trust me you dont want to go there.
First off you need to rest them....also icing them thru the day is very helpful, an oral anti-inflammatory will also help such as advil or aleve. Go to your Dr and get Pennsaid which is a topical anti-inflammatory used by arthritis patients...rub ten drops onto the area 4-5 times daily. Once the inflammation is reduced you can go back to training but I would suggest pre-exhaust techniques to avoid using very heavy weights on exercise such as barbell curls etc. Start with concentration curls and do your heavier exercises at the end of the arm workout so you dont need heavy weights.
You must also answer the question why is this happening...you may need to correct your technique as well.
P

[bigtavi8]

Hey Prae. I follow your thread and have been for a long time. I apologize if the question has been covered before. I also wanted to say congrats on the nationals your condition was something I strive for.

A few questions for an upcoming offseason bulking cycle.
1)What would you say is the optimal dose per week to be running NPP.(Nandrolone Phenylpropinate)

info: I will be doing ED shots because for more stable blood levels/less sides (especially with fast esters like phenlprop).

Stats- 5'11' 240lb 11-13% bf.
Cycle Expierence- 3 past cycles (including test,tren,eq,masteron,most orals, clen)

Cycle outline
NPP- dose? duration?
750mg Sustanon 250 per week (shot ED).
Aromasin 25mg EOD

2) What length of time should NPP be run for for full benefits of the compound to be noticed.

Thank you very much for your time bro.
Tav.

[Praetorian]

Hey Prae. I follow your thread and have been for a long time. I apologize if the question has been covered before. I also wanted to say congrats on the nationals your condition was something I strive for.

A few questions for an upcoming offseason bulking cycle.
1)What would you say is the optimal dose per week to be running NPP.(Nandrolone Phenylpropinate)

info: I will be doing ED shots because for more stable blood levels/less sides (especially with fast esters like phenlprop).

Stats- 5'11' 240lb 11-13% bf.
Cycle Expierence- 3 past cycles (including test,tren,eq,masteron,most orals, clen)

Cycle outline
NPP- dose? duration?
750mg Sustanon 250 per week (shot ED).
Aromasin 25mg EOD

2) What length of time should NPP be run for for full benefits of the compound to be noticed.

Thank you very much for your time bro.
Tav.

I don't like NPP at all...if you are going to use a nandrolone why not use deca...youll get much more our of it for off season...especially for joint support...which equates to heavier weights and more size. It is a much better match with a long ester test as well. I'm not that keen on sustanon either....its ok but i get alot more out of either enanthate or cypionate. If possible I would suggest the following:
test cyp 750mg weekly
deca 400mg weekly
aromasin-only if necessary

P

[japh]

OK, thanks guys for the good advice. I appreciate it.

I just want to say P I think its admirable that you volunteer your time like this and give back to the community anonymously.

[ubcpower]

Hey Prae,
Do you have your clients who are doing a 12 or 16 week cut change up their training program every now and then as they would in the offseason or do you like to keep it as is for the entire diet and try and hold on to strength. I ask this because I would assume the Kcal expenditures will vary greatly with a change in the program/exercises?

[Praetorian]

Hey Prae,
Do you have your clients who are doing a 12 or 16 week cut change up their training program every now and then as they would in the offseason or do you like to keep it as is for the entire diet and try and hold on to strength. I ask this because I would assume the Kcal expenditures will vary greatly with a change in the program/exercises?

Generally the training doesnt change for the entire 12-16 week diet. We may change up a few exercises if the the client is having specific trouble with some but the energy expenditure change is really insignificant.
P

[nisser]

If I didn't take HCG throughout the cycle, what's the best way to incorporate it at the end of the cycle in the PCT? Some are saying shoot ED and some are saying that's dumb and should keep it E3D? What's the ideal way to do it and at what dosages?

[Praetorian]

If I didn't take HCG throughout the cycle, what's the best way to incorporate it at the end of the cycle in the PCT? Some are saying shoot ED and some are saying that's dumb and should keep it E3D? What's the ideal way to do it and at what dosages?

HCG is unnecessary during the cycle.
Post cycle ETD is best...as for dosage that varies by individual, age, length and type of cycle etc...generally 2000iu ETD for a total of 10,000iu should be sufficient for recovery. Also remember to use an AI concurrently otherwise recovery will be delayed significantly.
P

[nisser]

ETD = every third day?

So, is the claim that anything more than 1000ui per shot is damaging to the leydig cells is bogus? The entire knowledge base around HCG administration seems to be bogus and all over the place depending on who you ask lol

[Praetorian]

ETD = every third day?

So, is the claim that anything more than 1000ui per shot is damaging to the leydig cells is bogus? The entire knowledge base around HCG administration seems to be bogus and all over the place depending on who you ask lol

ETD is every third day yes. Totally bogus!!!
Read the package insert of Canadian Pharmaceutical HCG for the recommended dosage...4000-6000iu three times weekly for 6 weeks.
P

[TopHatPlus]

hey, so here is my first of what will be a ton of questions over the next several years =D

so i find my chest is not proportionate to the rest of my upper body, my chest started to grow much faster but i feel like it is now falling behind.

chest workouts

i alternate every other day so i get a 4 day break between workouts and i have lowered my reps and focused a lot more on my max weights and working those up.

day 1
incline bench barbell - 45 lbx5 135 lbx5 185 lbx3 165 lb x7
flat bench bar bell - same as incline
i usually end up doing 30-50 push ups with my feet on an excursive ball scattered through out my workout in sets of 10

day 2
incline bench dumbbell - 45 lbsx10 75 lbsx5 65 lbsx10 i do sets till i fail then try for another set of five i can usually get 3-4 sets in
flat bench dumbbell - 90 lbsx3 80 lbsx8 70x5, this one i do a little different i hold my elbows as tight as i can with the dumbbells horizontal and push them straight up and do a 1/4 turn at the top.
the same thing applies for the push ups

so is this sufficient and i'm being paranoid? i will be post a new picture up on february 10th if it helps any.

[massabsamurai]

Hey P, I got a question for ya. I'm first week into the dp's cutting diet for 200lbs person and already lost 4lbs (mostly water). I'm following the exact diet. However I'm 193lbs now and sitting at abt 15% bf. Should i be tweaking with the oz for the beef/ chicken or don't touch it. Currently taking in 8 oz beef & chicken everyday.

[natenator]

Hey P, I got a question for ya. I'm first week into the dp's cutting diet for 200lbs person and already lost 4lbs (mostly water). I'm following the exact diet. However I'm 193lbs now and sitting at abt 15% bf. Should i be tweaking with the oz for the beef/ chicken or don't touch it. Currently taking in 8 oz beef & chicken everyday.

I won't speak for P but with everyone I've ever worked with including P diet it one of the last things that gets tweaked.

Cardio and/or fat burning supplements are what get adjusted weekly or bi-weekly.

If you start adjusting diet first then you run out of options later on in the diet. I'd rather do more cardio and be able to eat more.

[Praetorian]

hey, so here is my first of what will be a ton of questions over the next several years =D

so i find my chest is not proportionate to the rest of my upper body, my chest started to grow much faster but i feel like it is now falling behind.

chest workouts

i alternate every other day so i get a 4 day break between workouts and i have lowered my reps and focused a lot more on my max weights and working those up.

day 1
incline bench barbell - 45 lbx5 135 lbx5 185 lbx3 165 lb x7
flat bench bar bell - same as incline
i usually end up doing 30-50 push ups with my feet on an excursive ball scattered through out my workout in sets of 10

day 2
incline bench dumbbell - 45 lbsx10 75 lbsx5 65 lbsx10 i do sets till i fail then try for another set of five i can usually get 3-4 sets in
flat bench dumbbell - 90 lbsx3 80 lbsx8 70x5, this one i do a little different i hold my elbows as tight as i can with the dumbbells horizontal and push them straight up and do a 1/4 turn at the top.
the same thing applies for the push ups

so is this sufficient and i'm being paranoid? i will be post a new picture up on february 10th if it helps any.


I would suggest the following.

Train each muscle group once per week.
Always start with a heavy compound exercise...ie barbell bench, incline barbell bench
Use dumbbells AFTER you done your heavy compound movement
Choose four exercises for chest, 1 compound, 1 machine, 1 dumbbell, and 1 isolation
ie barbell bench press followed by hammer strength incline bench press machine followed by incline dumbbell flyes followed by cable crossovers or pec deck machine
Do three working sets on each exercise except isolation...on that just one is fine...warm ups dont count
Keep reps in the following range 1st set 4-6, second set 6-8, third et 8-10
Warm up to prepare the body and mind for the first set of 4-6 but dont exhaust yourself...on warmups keep your reps low 3-6 never to failure
Never train more then 3 days in a row without a rest day.
One body part per day is ideal...ie chest,back,delts,arms,legs
Learn proper technique before moving the weights higher...
Strive to become stronger with strength size will come.
P

[Praetorian]

Hey P, I got a question for ya. I'm first week into the dp's cutting diet for 200lbs person and already lost 4lbs (mostly water). I'm following the exact diet. However I'm 193lbs now and sitting at abt 15% bf. Should i be tweaking with the oz for the beef/ chicken or don't touch it. Currently taking in 8 oz beef & chicken everyday.

Nate is correct in that diet is usually the last adjustment i make. Unfortunately in your case you have started out incorrectly to begin with. Dave had made adjustments to his diet in the last few years and the 200lb diet no longer uses 8oz of protein. Drop yoru chicken, steak, fish etc to 7oz.
P

[TopHatPlus]

Thnks, i will se what i can do once i get healthy, the gym i go to the YMCA waterdown just got a 4500 sqf expansion and they got all new machines and they kind of suck. They are extremely awkward to use, and they are just a weird size i find they are either way to big or way to small for me and i i consider an "average" size (i average that between genders to help my pride) the cable machines we have are less then ideal as well, but i can probably make them work.

[Praetorian]

Thnks, i will se what i can do once i get healthy, the gym i go to the YMCA waterdown just got a 4500 sqf expansion and they got all new machines and they kind of suck. They are extremely awkward to use, and they are just a weird size i find they are either way to big or way to small for me and i i consider an "average" size (i average that between genders to help my pride) the cable machines we have are less then ideal as well, but i can probably make them work.

Sticking to all free weights is perfectly fine...barbell bench-incline barbell -incline dumbbell flyes-cable crossovers, the following week do incline barbell bench first then flat bench, then flat dumbbell flyes, and peck deck.
P

[massabsamurai]

Thanks Nate and P. The reason y i asked is in another thread P mentioning using 7oz instead of using 8 and was wondering if I maybe started off on the wrong foot but thanks :)

[Kaly11]

what are your thoughts on D-aspartic acid? Seems to be coming up more often these days

[Praetorian]

what are your thoughts on D-aspartic acid? Seems to be coming up more often these days

There are some studies showing it increases testosterone by 42% and LH by 33% in men ages 27-37...however this does not always translate into the ability to increase muscle mass...that has yet to be seen.
P

[BMac]

Hey P,
what's your opinion on upright rows?

[Praetorian]

Hey P,
what's your opinion on upright rows?

I don't think its a very good exercise...causes many shoulder issues and doesn't really target any specific muscle group all that well...I would avoid them.
P

[klimt]

HI
First i'd like to say this site is great and you give great advice. It's great you accept to share your experience. Thanks so much !
I'm a new member. i've been advised this site and you, praetorian on another forum.( I can PM more info if you need). I try to find some advise concerning a good timing to stack slin ( humalog : I only take this one ) and Gh for contest prep. i've used them many times but always separately aling with AAS but nevre together for contest prep. i'm competing in international comp in Europe but i've only been prepping on my own and I'm self educated when it comes to AAS. IIn my last internaional comp I talk with a guy from the top 3 and he said he used both to stay fuller when prepping. we were about the same weight in the same class but he actually looked a lot bigger than me. So I guess it was the reason why.
It would be great if you could advise.
Thanks so very much

[Praetorian]

HI
First i'd like to say this site is great and you give great advice. It's great you accept to share your experience. Thanks so much !
I'm a new member. i've been advised this site and you, praetorian on another forum.( I can PM more info if you need). I try to find some advise concerning a good timing to stack slin ( humalog : I only take this one ) and Gh for contest prep. i've used them many times but always separately aling with AAS but nevre together for contest prep. i'm competing in international comp in Europe but i've only been prepping on my own and I'm self educated when it comes to AAS. IIn my last internaional comp I talk with a guy from the top 3 and he said he used both to stay fuller when prepping. we were about the same weight in the same class but he actually looked a lot bigger than me. So I guess it was the reason why.
It would be great if you could advise.
Thanks so very much


Ok a few things you need to know...

1)
When using insulin you need to use the correct type...Humalog is not it...you want Humulin R...Humalog works great for Type I Diabetics who need to rapidly lower blood sugar at each food meal they consume. They do this by calculating how much protein and carbs they ingested; then they dose how much Humalog to inject.
A non-diabetic who injects exogenous insulin doesn't proceed from this same thought process. The reason is that their bodies already naturally release insulin which quickly begins to lower blood sugar by driving the glucose and amino acids into the muscle cells. Therefore, when a non-diabetic takes insulin, they're merely supplementing what they already naturally produce. With this understanding, it's then understandable why a slightly longer acting insulin should be employed. Humulin-R has a 5 hour half-life (as opposed to a 1-3 hour half-life of Humalog) and that gives you approximately 2 insulin peaks (enough to cover 2 meals spaced 2-3 hours apart).

2) When dieting you want to control insulin levels and keep them low and stable....this allows the counter hormone glucagon to be higher and thus illicit more fat mobilization. When insulin is low....glucagon is high and vice versa. When you have a higher insulin environment fat loss comes to a screeching halt...not good! Thus you don't want to be using insulin regularly when dieting for a contest. The only time you may want to use insulin when dieting is when having a refeed meal or during the carb up process. The only issue with the refeed meal is because carbs are limited during the dieting process the body is already very carb sensitive and using insulin is almost redundant and could drive you into severe hypoglycemia. During the carb up process you need to know exactly what you are doing because insulin will make you retain water and you could destroy your physique very easily.

3) When BB are backstage every other guy in their class appears to be bigger and more ripped then themselves...this is a common phenomena because even though the guy may be 10lbs lighter you think he is bigger...more guys end up psyching themselves out doing this and end up losing placings because of it. The only way to truly tell is to be in the audience and to view the two guys side by side.

My suggestion to you is simple...dont mess with insulin when dieting, find someone who is very experienced to work with when competing, and dont worry about anyone but yourself...if you do your homework youll be fine.
P

[fathead]

what would you suggest to focus on building size/mass on the insides of the thighs?

specific exercises or foot positions?

all my quad size comes on the outside... inside lacking

thanks

[Praetorian]

what would you suggest to focus on building size/mass on the insides of the thighs?

specific exercises or foot positions?

all my quad size comes on the outside... inside lacking

thanks

I dont do any specific inner thigh exercises but you could do the adductor machine. If you perform the regular basic movements your inner thighs should get maximum development. ie squats, leg presses, hacks, curls, stiff legs, glute ham raises, dead lifts etc...your legs need to have significant size to have well developed inner thighs...its the same principle with the upper chest...without significant mass it doesnt really matter if you do inclines all day long....you wont see the upper development.
Well developed hams also give the impression of larger inner thighs.
Add the adductor machine at the end of your leg workout for added priority on that area.
P

[klimt]

Ok a few things you need to know...

1)
When using insulin you need to use the correct type...Humalog is not it...you want Humulin R...Humalog works great for Type I Diabetics who need to rapidly lower blood sugar at each food meal they consume. They do this by calculating how much protein and carbs they ingested; then they dose how much Humalog to inject.
A non-diabetic who injects exogenous insulin doesn't proceed from this same thought process. The reason is that their bodies already naturally release insulin which quickly begins to lower blood sugar by driving the glucose and amino acids into the muscle cells. Therefore, when a non-diabetic takes insulin, they're merely supplementing what they already naturally produce. With this understanding, it's then understandable why a slightly longer acting insulin should be employed. Humulin-R has a 5 hour half-life (as opposed to a 1-3 hour half-life of Humalog) and that gives you approximately 2 insulin peaks (enough to cover 2 meals spaced 2-3 hours apart).

2) When dieting you want to control insulin levels and keep them low and stable....this allows the counter hormone glucagon to be higher and thus illicit more fat mobilization. When insulin is low....glucagon is high and vice versa. When you have a higher insulin environment fat loss comes to a screeching halt...not good! Thus you don't want to be using insulin regularly when dieting for a contest. The only time you may want to use insulin when dieting is when having a refeed meal or during the carb up process. The only issue with the refeed meal is because carbs are limited during the dieting process the body is already very carb sensitive and using insulin is almost redundant and could drive you into severe hypoglycemia. During the carb up process you need to know exactly what you are doing because insulin will make you retain water and you could destroy your physique very easily.

3) When BB are backstage every other guy in their class appears to be bigger and more ripped then themselves...this is a common phenomena because even though the guy may be 10lbs lighter you think he is bigger...more guys end up psyching themselves out doing this and end up losing placings because of it. The only way to truly tell is to be in the audience and to view the two guys side by side.

My suggestion to you is simple...dont mess with insulin when dieting, find someone who is very experienced to work with when competing, and dont worry about anyone but yourself...if you do your homework youll be fine.
P

Thanks so very much I really appreciate your answer. It helps a lot. Just one more question. For HGH I usually inject sub Q first thing in the morning on an empty stomach then have breakfast 30 min later and after training. I've been up to 8 IU / day total pre contest ED.
What's best timing for HGH pre contest.For fat loss.
Also, would you think It could be a good idea for the first 2 months of dieting ( I love long diets so mine is 20 weeks ) while my calories are still high enough to go into the 3 times a week gavin kane protocol: high HGH doses+ slin. What timing for this ? If it is any good? or would you stay lower doses ED?

Thanks so very much I really appreciate your help !

[Praetorian]

Thanks so very much I really appreciate your answer. It helps a lot. Just one more question. For HGH I usually inject sub Q first thing in the morning on an empty stomach then have breakfast 30 min later and after training. I've been up to 8 IU / day total pre contest ED.
What's best timing for HGH pre contest.For fat loss.
Also, would you think It could be a good idea for the first 2 months of dieting ( I love long diets so mine is 20 weeks ) while my calories are still high enough to go into the 3 times a week gavin kane protocol: high HGH doses+ slin. What timing for this ? If it is any good? or would you stay lower doses ED?

Thanks so very much I really appreciate your help !

For precontest hgh dosage doesnt have to be very high...4-6iu per day is more than enough. Take the hgh in the morning right before eating...do not wait 30 min. Then take your second shot post workout and have your shake or meal right after. Even if your diet is 20 weeks long your are still dieting...which means you are in a calorie deficit...which means you are NOT building muscle...so taking slin is a waste...one it will slow fat loss and two you arent building anything without calories. Keep the hgh at a lower dose 4-6iu and run it right through 20 weeks. For the best synergistic fat burning effect you should also be running clen and T3 ramping correctly.
P

[LIVEHARD]

Hey P I have a few questions.

I was given the book "THE FOUR HOUR BODY" by auther Tim Ferris

I read it it was an interestung read to say the least.
I have been on the Dave P. diet for three week great results even though my training has been lacking because of time.

My only complaint around the Dave P. diet is ! I'm hungry all the time.

Have you read the book by Tim Ferris " ?

What do you think about the FOUR HOUR BODY diet for fat loss ??

Can it work ?? or is it just another fad ??

LH

[Praetorian]

Hey P I have a few questions.

I was given the book "THE FOUR HOUR BODY" by auther Tim Ferris

I read it it was an interestung read to say the least.
I have been on the Dave P. diet for three week great results even though my training has been lacking because of time.

My only complaint around the Dave P. diet is ! I'm hungry all the time.

Have you read the book by Tim Ferris " ?

What do you think about the FOUR HOUR BODY diet for fat loss ??

Can it work ?? or is it just another fad ??

LH

Dieting correctly to lose fat means you will be hungry...you are running a calorie deficit...its not the end of the world.
As for the book I haven t read it but after looking at the ads it sure sounds like complete BS to me.
P

[LIVEHARD]

Dieting correctly to lose fat means you will be hungry...you are running a calorie deficit...its not the end of the world.
As for the book I haven t read it but after looking at the ads it sure sounds like complete BS to me.
P

Thanks P

Have a read its quite amusing

[klimt]

5IU ED is usually what I take. I take T3 as well but I don't react well to clen at all. Thanks so very much for your answer ! I really appreciate your advice !

[Vitamin S]

p,

1. what should be the ideal body fat level for a male that lets say worksout but not to comepete just just for health?

2. does test always have to be in every cycle? like if i do tren and winny is that not as strong as test/tren/winny, is test even needed at all like can you run testless cycles, if so what are some good ones for a male?

[z83]

Hi P,

Whats the difference between moderate carbs/moderate fats and higher carbs/low fats in term of gains or body composition ? Lets say the goal is mass. I hear people saying higher carbs/low fats a lot, i've heard carb cycling work great. Not a lot of people adding fats. Is it personal experience and what work best for you ? I'm confused with carbs/fats and total calories count.

Thanks

z83

[Praetorian]

p,

1. what should be the ideal body fat level for a male that lets say worksout but not to comepete just just for health?

2. does test always have to be in every cycle? like if i do tren and winny is that not as strong as test/tren/winny, is test even needed at all like can you run testless cycles, if so what are some good ones for a male?

1. IMO 10-12% max
2. Test should be the base of every cycle...without test you will see alot more sides...ie total loss of libido, depression, anxiety etc It is not about the strength of the compounds it is about the efficiency of the cycle and minimizing sides while maximizing gains...speaking in BB terms.

P

[Praetorian]

Hi P,

Whats the difference between moderate carbs/moderate fats and higher carbs/low fats in term of gains or body composition ? Lets say the goal is mass. I hear people saying higher carbs/low fats a lot, i've heard carb cycling work great. Not a lot of people adding fats. Is it personal experience and what work best for you ? I'm confused with carbs/fats and total calories count.

Thanks

z83

The difference is carb sensitivity. Nobody is sensitive to fat, nobody is sensitive to protein, however many are sensitive to carbohydrates. Thus to allow muscle gains with minimal fat gains the individual has to determine how much carbs they can handle without putting on too much fat. Carbs provide an energy source and spare protein they do NOT build muscle...therefore some individuals who are not carb sensitive can go on a higher carb lower fat diet and still remain relatively lean while those who are carb sensitive will need to lower carb intake and raise fat intake to do the same thing.
P

[Vitamin S]

hey p,

this is what im doing right now since i can only go to gym once a day due to hectic business schedule.

i wake up and right away take 100mg caffeine gets me fired up, shower grab my stuff and go to gym.

during my workout which is always 45-60 mins weights i sip on gatorade g2 with 5g of bcaa and 5g of glutamine to prevent muscle breakdown as i am not having any meals before. then i do my cardio after while drinking only water. i keep heart rate at 120-130bpm. i do this because i feel i still have enough liver glycogen from day before and with the gatorade which as 12g and then added glutamine and bcaa should be enough to fuel my workout and at the end of the workout i beleive i should have used all liver glycogen and any extra carbs such as the gatorade to be in fat burning mode for my cardio, is this true?

after cardio i wait 30 mins and have 50g whey isolate with 5g glutamine and 5g bcaa, no carbs since i don't wanna spike insulin and slow down fat loss.

1 hour after that shake, i follow this eating every 2.5 to 3 hours.


meal 1 30-50g protein 30-50g carbs no fats

meal 2 30-50g protein 15-20g fats

meal 3 30-50g protein 30-50g carbs no fats

meal 4 30-50g protein 15-20g fats

meal 5 30-50g protein 30-50g carbs no fats

meal 6 30-50g protein 15-20g fats

* i have veggies with every other meal , like 1 cup of anything green.

any thing i should change? i know best way is cardio empty stomach and weights in evening etc. but schedue don't permit this for 3-4 months. i wanna lean out while keeping muscle.

thanks pal

[JacktheThriller]

Vitamin S, you know this is one way P makes money right? How much more free advice should he give were on pg 262 of P advice. Im sure he has a template or diet recommendation centering around you dietary concerns.

[Praetorian]

hey p,

this is what im doing right now since i can only go to gym once a day due to hectic business schedule.

I wake up and right away take 100mg caffeine gets me fired up, shower grab my stuff and go to gym.

During my workout which is always 45-60 mins weights i sip on gatorade g2 with 5g of bcaa and 5g of glutamine to prevent muscle breakdown as i am not having any meals before. Then i do my cardio after while drinking only water. I keep heart rate at 120-130bpm. I do this because i feel i still have enough liver glycogen from day before and with the gatorade which as 12g and then added glutamine and bcaa should be enough to fuel my workout and at the end of the workout i beleive i should have used all liver glycogen and any extra carbs such as the gatorade to be in fat burning mode for my cardio, is this true?

***always eat before training no matter what...cardio is done morning before eating or post workout on empty stomach

after cardio i wait 30 mins and have 50g whey isolate with 5g glutamine and 5g bcaa, no carbs since i don't wanna spike insulin and slow down fat loss.

***bcaa's and glutamine are unnecessary and redundant if you are taking whey isolate you are already getting more than 10g bcaa's and glutamine does nothing except help with gut health

1 hour after that shake, i follow this eating every 2.5 to 3 hours.
***3 hours ...2.5 is too close togather



meal 1 30-50g protein 30-50g carbs no fats

meal 2 30-50g protein 15-20g fats

meal 3 30-50g protein 30-50g carbs no fats

meal 4 30-50g protein 15-20g fats

meal 5 30-50g protein 30-50g carbs no fats

meal 6 30-50g protein 15-20g fats

* i have veggies with every other meal , like 1 cup of anything green.

Any thing i should change? I know best way is cardio empty stomach and weights in evening etc. But schedue don't permit this for 3-4 months. I wanna lean out while keeping muscle.

Thanks pal

*** i prefer the palumbo diet than the one u posted


p

[Vitamin S]

1. do i still need fats with meal before gym, or just protein/carbs is fine.

2. ill scrap the bcaas, keep the glutamine for gut health etc, but for my post workout shake do i still need dextrose, or can i use straight whey isolate only?

3. i did palumbo before, i am just doing this for general health and to be lean, not looking to compete and i still want fullness and go at my own pace, i went flat fast with palumbo, wanting to keep it a lifestyle that i will be able to follow, not rock it for 12 weeks and then never again. i agree palumbo is better due to no insulin going up and down, but wanted to try something different this time.

thanks p.

[Praetorian]

1. do i still need fats with meal before gym, or just protein/carbs is fine.

***all three

2. ill scrap the bcaas, keep the glutamine for gut health etc, but for my post workout shake do i still need dextrose, or can i use straight whey isolate only?

***protein and fat or protein and carbs your choice

3. i did palumbo before, i am just doing this for general health and to be lean, not looking to compete and i still want fullness and go at my own pace, i went flat fast with palumbo, wanting to keep it a lifestyle that i will be able to follow, not rock it for 12 weeks and then never again. i agree palumbo is better due to no insulin going up and down, but wanted to try something different this time.

***you wont be much fuller just because you have a bit of carbs...youll still feel flat....which as on a keto diet is in your head...all my clients on keto get tremendous pumps when training...i you want to have some carbs have them meals 1-3-5 about 30g each.

thanks p.


P

[natenator]

***you wont be much fuller just because you have a bit of carbs...youll still feel flat....which as on a keto diet is in your head...all my clients on keto get tremendous pumps when training...i you want to have some carbs have them meals 1-3-5 about 30g each.

Agreed. With enough sodium and water in your diet you will still maintain pumps on keto.

[IronMan]

What do you think of this informative article Prae?

Quite some time ago, I wrote a book on Anabolics, and since then, I’ve received quite a bit of feedback on it. Some of the information contained in the book is based on the 50-60 profiles I completed for Steroid.com’s main page. As a result, I get feedback on certain portions of the book from people who have read them online.

When someone takes the time to send an e-mail to Steroid.com or AnabolicBooks LLC, they’re screened, and eventually some of them make their way to my e-mail account. AnabolicBooks LLC is publisher- a little known fact is that my book is actually wasn’t edited by me, nor do I own the rights to any of it. When they forward an e-mail to me, I typically consider it very carefully, and reply to the original sender. If amendments or additions are useful for anything I’ve previously written (readers frequently send me recently published studies), I typically reply and thank the person for their help.

This time, something odd happened. I was forwarded an e-mail from AnabolicBooks, and the reader seemed to know what he was talking about, but (I thought) mistaken about interactions between Growth Hormone and Thyroid medication. I took a look at the e-mail, and knew that I could quickly find a study that I had saved previously, to send to the reader, to verify that the claims in my work on GH were sound.

In this particular case- James Daemon, PhD- was the reader, and was correct in his assessment of the interaction between thyroid hormone and Growth Hormone. And, in direct contradiction, so was I. Thyroid medication decreases the anabolic effect of Growth Hormone. And it increases it.

Huh?

There’re some leaps here, because research in some of the necessary areas is sketchy (or not done yet), but if you read the entirety of this article, you’ll learn how to get a significantly more gains from Growth Hormone, for pennies a day, by the addition of a readily available (and cheap) addition to it. And yeah, it’s a drug you can get anywhere on the ‘net, very easily. And no, it’s not a steroid.

In fact, I’ll go so far as to say you’re throwing away a substantial portion of your gains from growth hormone if you are not using this drug with it.

Ok…I’ll explain things a bit further. First, a brief explanation of Thyroid Hormone as well as Growth Hormone may be necessary.

Your thyroid gland secretes two hormones that are going to be of primary importance in understanding Thyroid/GH interaction. The first is thyroxine (T4) and the second is triiodothyronine (T3). T3 is frequently considered the physiologically active hormone, and consequently the one on which most athletes and bodybuilders focus their energies on. T4, on the other hand, is converted in peripheral tissue into T3 by the enzymes in the deiodinase group, of which there are three types- the three iodothyronine deiodinase either catalyze the initiation (D1, D2) or termination (D3) of thyroid hormone effects. The majority of the body's T3 (about 80%) comes from this conversion via the first two types of deiodinase, while conversion to an inactive state is accomplished by the third type.

It’s important to note that not all of the body’s T4 is converted to T3, however- some remains unconverted. The secretion of T4 is under the control of Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) which is produced by the pituitary gland. TSH secretion is in turn controlled through release of Thyrotropin Releasing Hormone which is produced in your hypothalamus. So, when T3 levels go up, TSH secretion is suppressed, due to the body’s self regulatory system known as the "negative feedback loop" . This is also the mechanism whereby exogenous thyroid hormone suppresses natural thyroid hormone production. However, it should be noted that thyroid stimulating hormone (like all other hormones) can not work in a vacuum. TSH also requires the presence of Insulin or Insulin-like Growth Factor to stimulate thyroid function (1) When thyroid hormone is present without either insulin or IGF-1, it has no physiological effect (ibid).

Most people think that T3 is just a physiologically active hormone that regulates bodyfat setpoint and has some minor anabolic effects, but in actuality, in some cases of delayed growth in children, T3 is actually too low, while GH levels are normal, and this has a growth limiting effect on several tissues (2) This could be due to T3’s ability to stimulate the proliferation of IGF-1 mRNA in many tissues (which would, of course, be anabolic), or it could be due to the synergistic effect T3 has on GH, specifically on regulation of the growth hormone gene. Although it is largely overlooked in the world of performance enhancement, regulation of the growth hormone response is predominantly determined by positive control of growth hormone gene transcription which is proportional to the concentration of thyroid hormone-receptor complexes, which are influenced by T3 levels. (3)

At this point, just to give you a better understanding of what’s going on, I think it’s prudent to also give a brief explanation of Growth Hormone (GH) as well.

Your body’s GH is regulated by many internal factors, such as hormones and enzymes. hormones. A change in the level of your body’s GH output begins in the hypothalamus with somatostatin (SS) and growth hormone-releasing hormone (GHRH). Somatostatin exerts its effect at the pituitary to decrease GH output, while GHRH acts at the pituitary to increase GH output. Together these hormones regulate the level of GH you have in your body. In many cases, GH deficiency presents with a low level of T3, and normal T4(4). This is of course because conversion of T4-T3 is partially dependant on GH (and to some degree GH stimulated IGF-1), and it’s ability to stimulate that conversion process of T4 into T3.

Interestingly, the hypothalamus isn’t the only place where SS is contained; the thyroid gland also contains Somatostatin-producing cells. This is of interest to us, because in the case of the thyroid, it’s been noted that certain hormones which were previously thought only to govern GH secretion can also influence thyroid hormone output as well. SS can directly act to inhibit TSH secretion or it may act on the hypothalamus to inhibit TRH secretion. So when you add GH into your body from an outside source, you are triggering the body into releasing SS, because your body no longer needs to produce its own supply of GH…and unfortunately, the release of SS can also inhibit TSH, and therefore limit the amount of T4 your body produces.

But that’s not the only interaction we see between the thyroid and Growth Hormone.

As we learned in high-school Biology class, the body likes to maintain homeostasis, or "normal" operating conditions. This is the body’s version of the status quo, and it fights like hell to maintain the comfort of the status quo (much like moderators on most steroid discussion boards). What we see with thyroid/GH interplay is that physiological levels of circulating thyroid hormones are necessary to maintain normal pituitary GH secretion, due to their directly stimulatory actions. However, when serum concentrations of thyroid hormone increase above the normal range we see an increase in hypothalamic somatostatin action, which suppresses pituitary GH secretion and overrides any stimulatory effects that the thyroid hormone may have had on GH. The suppression of GH secretion by thyroid hormones is probably mediated at the hypothalamic level by a decrease in GHRH release(5).

In addition, as IGF-I production is increased in the hypothalamus after T3 administration and T3 may participate in IGF-1 mediated negative feedback of GH by triggering either increased somatostatin tone and/or decreased GHRH production (6). IGF, interestingly, has the ability to mediate some of T3’s effects independent of GH, but not to the same degree GH can (7.) In fact, IGF-I production is increased in the hypothalamus after T3, administration it may plausibly participate in negative feedback by triggering either increased somatostatin tone and/or decreased GHRH production. So we know that GH lowers T4 (more about this in a sec), but an increase in T3 upregulates GH receptors (8) as well as IGF-1 receptors (9,10).

As can be previously stated, and due to the ability of GH to convert inactive T4 into active T3, GH administration in healthy athletes shows us an entirely predicatble increase in mean free T3 (fT3), and a decrease in mean free T4 (fT4) levels.(11)

Interaction between GH, IGF-I, T3, and GC. GH stimulates hepatic IGF-I secretion and local production of growth plate IGF-I, and exerts direct actions in the growth plate. Circulating T3 is derived from the thyroid gland and by enzymatic deiodination of T4 in liver and kidne.. The regulatory 5'-DI and 11ßHSD type 2 enzymes may also be expressed in chondrocytes to control local supplies of intracellular T3 and GC. Receptors for each hormone (GHR, IGF-IR, TR, GR) are expressed in growth plate chondrocytes.

So, with the use of GH, what we see is an increased conversion of T4-T3, and possible inhibition of Thyroid Releasing Hormone by Somatostatin, and therefore even though T3 levels may rise, there is no increase in T4 (logically, we see a decrease). Now, as we’ve seen, GH is HIGHLY synergistic with T3 in the body, and as a mater of fact, if you’ve been paying any attention up until this point, you’ll note that the limiting factor on GH’s ability to exert many of it’s effects, is mediated by the amount of T3 in the body.

As noted before, T3 enhances many effects of GH by several mechanisms, including (but not limited to): increasing IGF-1 levels, IGF-1 mRNA levels, and finally by actually mediating the control of the growth hormone gene transcription process as seen below:

Comparison of the kinetics of L-T3-receptor binding abundance to changes in the rate of transcription of the GH gene.(3)

As you can see, T3 levels are directly correlative to GH gene transcription. The scientists who conducted the study which provided the graph above concluded that the amount of T3 present is a regulatory factor on how much GH gene transcription actually occurs. And gene transcription is what actually gives us the effects from GH. This last fact really seems to shed some light on why we need T3 levels to be supraphysiological if we’re going to be using supraphysiological levels of GH, right? Otherwise, the GH we’re using is going to be limited by the amount of T3 our body produces. However, since we’re taking GH, and it is converting more T4 into T3, T4 levels are lowered substantially, and this is the problem with GH. and may actually be THE limiting factor on GH…if we assume that at least some of GH’s effects are enhanced by thyroid hormone, and specifically T3, then what we are looking at is the GH that has been injected is being limited by a lack of T3. But that doesn’t make sense, because if we use T3 + GH, we get a decrease in the anabolic effect of GH.

This is where Mr. Daemon, who had contacted me via an e-mail to my publisher, about Thyroid + GH interaction, was able to shed some light on things. You see, I knew that it couldn’t just be the actual presence of enough T3 along with the GH that was limiting GH’s anabolic effect, because, simply adding T3 to a GH cycle will reduce the anabolic effect of the GH (12.).

Originally, he had said to me that T3 was synergistic with GH, wheras I said that T3 actually reduced the anabolic effects of GH- now I realize we were both correct. Logically this presents a bit of a problem, which I believe can be solved. This came from reading several studies provided to me by Dr.Daemon. the trend I was seeing was that even when Growth Hormone therapy was used, T3 levels needed to be elevated in order to treat several conditions caused by a lack of natural growth hormone. And even if the patient was on GH, T3 levels still needed to be elevated. And what I noticed was that those levels were elevated successfully by using supplemental T4 but not T3.

Here’s why I think this is:

Additional T3 is not all that’s needed here. What’s needed is the actual conversion process of T4-T3, and the deiodinase presence and activity that it involves. This is because Local 5'-deiodination of l-thyroxine (T4) to active the thyroid hormone 3,3',5-tri-iodothyronine (T3) is catalyzed by the two 5'-deiodinase enzymes (D1 and D2). These enzymes not only "create" T3 out of T4, but actually regulates various T(3)-dependent functions in many tissues including the anterior pituitary and liver. So when there is an excess of T3 in the body, but normal levels of T4, the body’s thyroid axis sends a negative feedback signal., and produces less (D1 and D2) deiodinase, but more of the D3 type, which signals the cessation of the T4-T3 conversion process, and is inhibitory of many of the synergistic effects that T3 has! Remember, Type 3 iodothyronine deiodinase (D3) is the physiologic INACTIVATOR of thyroid hormones and their effects (13) and is well known to have independent interaction with growth factors (which is what GH and IGF-1 are).(14) This is because with adequate T4 and excess T3, (D1 and D2) deiodinase is no longer needed for conversion of T4 into T3, but levels of D3 deiodinase will be elevated. When there is less of the first two types of deidinase, it would seem that the T3 which has been converted to T4 can not exert it’s protein sparing (anabolic effects), as those first two types are responsible for mediation of many of the effects T3 has on the body. This seems to be one of the ways deiodinase contributes to anabolism in the presence of other hormones.

All of this would explain why anecdotally we see bodybuilders who use T3 lose a lot of muscle if they aren’t using anabolics along with it- they’re not utilizing the enzyme that would regulate some of T3’s ability to stimulate protein synthesis, while they are simultaneously signaling the body to produce an inhibitory enzyme (D3). And remember, for decades bodybuilders who were dieting for a contest have been convinced that you lose less muscle with T4 use, but that it’s less effective for losing fat when compared with T3? Well, as we’ve seen, without something (GH in this case) to aid in the conversion process, it would clearly be less effective! Since the deiodinase enzyme is also located in the liver, and we see decreased hepatic nitrogen clearance with GH + T3, it would seem that the D3 enzyme is exerting it’s inhibitory effects, but in the absence of the effects of the first two deiodinase enzymes, it remains unchecked and therefore not only limits the GH’s nitrogen retention capability.

In other words, if we have enough to GH in our body aid in supraphysiological conversion of T4 into T3, but we already have the too much (exogenous) T3, the GH is not going to be converting any excess T4 into T3 after a certain point- which would be a limiting factor in GH’s anabolic effects, when coupled with the act that we’ve allowed the D3 enzyme to inhibit the T3/GH synergy that is necessary.

As further evidence, when we look at certain types of cellular growth (the cartilage cell in this case) we see that GH induced rises in IGF-I stimulates proliferation, whereas T3 is responsible for hypertrophic differentiation. So it would seem that in some tissues, IGF-1 stimulates the synthesis of new cells, while T3 makes them larger. In this particular case, The fact that T4 and (D1) deiodinase is am active component in this system is noted by the authors. They clearly state (paraphrasing) that: "T4 is is converted to T3 by deiodinase (5'-DI type 1) in peripheral tissues…[furthermore]GH stimulates conversion of T4 to T3 , suggesting that some effects of GH may involve this pathway." The thing I want you to notice is that the authors of this paper state that the that the conversion PATHWAY is probably involved, and not the simple presence of T3. (15 )

Also, that same study notes that T3 has the ability to stimulates IGF-I and expression in tissues that whereas GH has no such effect (ibid).

So what are we doing when we add T3 to GH? We’re effectively shutting down the conversion pathway that is responsible for some of GH’s effects! And what would we be doing if we added in T4 instead of T3? You got it- we’d be enhancing the pathway by allowing the GH we’re using to have more T4 to convert to T3, thus giving us more of an effect from the GH we’re taking. Adding T4 into our GH cycles will actually allow more of the GH to be used effectively!

Remember, the thing that catalyzes the conversion process is the deiodinase enzyme. This is also why using low amounts of T3 would seem (again, anecdotally in bodybuilders) to be able to slightly increase protein synthesis and have an anabolic effect – they aren’t using enough to tell the body to stop or slow down production of the deiodinase enzyme, and hence .Although this analogy isn’t perfect, think of GH as a supercharger you have attached to your car…if you don’t provide enough fuel for it to burn at it’s increased output level, you aren’t going to derive the full effects. Thyroid status also may influence IGF-I expression in tissues other than the liver.So what we have here is a problem. When we take GH, it lowers T3 levels…but we need T3 to keep our GH receptor levels optimally upregulated. In addition, it’s suspected that many of GH’s anabolic effects are engendered as a result of production of IGF-1, so keeping our IGF receptors upregulated by maintaining adequate levels of T3 seems prudent. But as we’ve just seen, supplementing T3 with our GH will abolish Growth Hormone’s functional hepatic nitrogen clearance, possibly through the effect of reducing the bioavailability of insulin-like growth factor-I (12.)

So we want elevated T3 levels when we take GH, or we won’t be getting ANYWHERE NEAR the full anabolic effect of our injectable GH without enough T3. And now we know that not only do we need the additional T3, but we actually want the CONVERSION process of T4 into T3 to take place, because it’s the presence of those mediator enzymes that will allow the T3 to be synergistic with GH, instead of being inhibitory as is seen when T3 is simply added to a GH cycle. And remember, we don’t only want T3 levels high, but we want types 1 and 2 deiodinase to get us there- and when we take supplemental T3, that just doesn’t happen…all that happens is the type 3 deiodinase enzyme shows up and negates the beneficial effects of the T3 when we combine it with GH.

And that’s where myself and Dr. Daemon ended up, after a week of e-mails, researching studies, and gathering clues.

If you’ve been using GH without T4, you’ve been wasting half your money – and if you’ve been using it with T3, you’ve been wasting your time. Start using T4 with your GH, and you’ll finally be getting the full results from your investment.

References:

Growth Factors. 1990;2(2-3):99-109.Interaction of TSH, insulin and insulin-like growth factors in regulating thyroid growth and function. Eggo MC, Bachrach LK, Burrow GN.

F, Rumpler M, Klaushofer K 1994 Thyroid hormones increase insulin-like growth factor mRNA levels in the clonal osteoblastic cell line MC3T3- E1. FEBS Lett 345: 67–70

Relationship of the rate of transcription to the level of nuclear thyroid hormone-receptor complexes.J Biol Chem. 1984 May 25;259(10):6284-91. Yaffe BM, Samuels HH.

Thyroid morphology and function in adults with untreated isolated growth hormone deficiency. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Mar;91(3):860-4. Epub 2006 Jan 4.

Eur J Endocrinol.1995 Dec;133(6):646-53.Influence of thyroid hormones on the regulation of growth hormone secretion. Giustina A, Wehrenberg WB.

Binoux M, Faivre-Bauman A, Lassarre C, Tixier-Vidal A 1985 Triiodothyronine stimulates the production of insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) by fetal hypothalamus cells cultured in serum free medium. Dev Brain Res 21:319–323

Eur J Endocrinol. 1996 May;134(5):563-7.Insulin-like growth factor I alters peripheral thyroid hormone metabolism in humans: comparison with growth hormone.Hussain MA, Schmitz O, Jorgensen JO, Christiansen JS, Weeke J, Schmid C, Froesch ER

Harakawa S, Yamashita S, Tobinaga T, Matsuo K, Hirayu H, Izumi M, Nagataki S, Melmed S. In vivo regulation of hepatic insulin-like growth factor-1 messenger ribonucleic acids with thyroid hormone. Endocrinol Jpn 37(2):205-11, 1990

Hochberg Z, Bick T, Harel Z Alterations of human growth hormone binding by rat liver membranes during hypo- and hyperthyroidism. Endocrinology 126(1):325-9, 1990

Matsuo K, Yamashita S, Niwa M, Kurihara M, Harakawa S, Izumi M, Nagataki S, Melmed S Thyroid hormone regulates rat pituitary insulin-like growth factor-I receptors. Endocrinology 126(1):550-4, 1990

The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 88, No. 11 5221-5226, 2003. High Dose Growth Hormone Exerts an Anabolic Effect at Rest and during Exercise in Endurance-Trained Athletes M. L. Healy, J. Gibney, D. L. Russell-Jones, C. Pentecost, P. Croos, P. H. Sönksen and A. M. Umpleby

J Hepatol. 1996 Mar;24(3):313-9. Effects of long-term growth hormone (GH) and triiodothyronine (T3) administration on functional hepatic nitrogen clearance in normal man.Wolthers T, Grofte T, Moller N, Vilstrup H, Jorgensen JO

Huang, SA. Physiology and pathophysiology of type 3 deiodinase in humans. Thyroid. 2005 Aug;15(8):875-81. Review.

Hernandez. A. Structure and function of the type 3 deiodinase gene.Thyroid. 2005 Aug;15(8):865-74. Review.

F, Rumpler M, Klaushofer K 1994 Thyroid hormones increase insulin-like growth factor mRNA levels in the clonal osteoblastic cell line MC3T3- E1. FEBS Lett 345: 67–70

Read more from this MESO-Rx article at: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/anthony-roberts/thyroid-and-growth-hormone.htm#ixzz1DbMaH4nl

[Praetorian]

What do you think of this informative article Prae?

Quite some time ago, I wrote a book on Anabolics, and since then, I’ve received quite a bit of feedback on it. Some of the information contained in the book is based on the 50-60 profiles I completed for Steroid.com’s main page. As a result, I get feedback on certain portions of the book from people who have read them online.

When someone takes the time to send an e-mail to Steroid.com or AnabolicBooks LLC, they’re screened, and eventually some of them make their way to my e-mail account. AnabolicBooks LLC is publisher- a little known fact is that my book is actually wasn’t edited by me, nor do I own the rights to any of it. When they forward an e-mail to me, I typically consider it very carefully, and reply to the original sender. If amendments or additions are useful for anything I’ve previously written (readers frequently send me recently published studies), I typically reply and thank the person for their help.

This time, something odd happened. I was forwarded an e-mail from AnabolicBooks, and the reader seemed to know what he was talking about, but (I thought) mistaken about interactions between Growth Hormone and Thyroid medication. I took a look at the e-mail, and knew that I could quickly find a study that I had saved previously, to send to the reader, to verify that the claims in my work on GH were sound.

In this particular case- James Daemon, PhD- was the reader, and was correct in his assessment of the interaction between thyroid hormone and Growth Hormone. And, in direct contradiction, so was I. Thyroid medication decreases the anabolic effect of Growth Hormone. And it increases it.

Huh?

There’re some leaps here, because research in some of the necessary areas is sketchy (or not done yet), but if you read the entirety of this article, you’ll learn how to get a significantly more gains from Growth Hormone, for pennies a day, by the addition of a readily available (and cheap) addition to it. And yeah, it’s a drug you can get anywhere on the ‘net, very easily. And no, it’s not a steroid.

In fact, I’ll go so far as to say you’re throwing away a substantial portion of your gains from growth hormone if you are not using this drug with it.

Ok…I’ll explain things a bit further. First, a brief explanation of Thyroid Hormone as well as Growth Hormone may be necessary.

Your thyroid gland secretes two hormones that are going to be of primary importance in understanding Thyroid/GH interaction. The first is thyroxine (T4) and the second is triiodothyronine (T3). T3 is frequently considered the physiologically active hormone, and consequently the one on which most athletes and bodybuilders focus their energies on. T4, on the other hand, is converted in peripheral tissue into T3 by the enzymes in the deiodinase group, of which there are three types- the three iodothyronine deiodinase either catalyze the initiation (D1, D2) or termination (D3) of thyroid hormone effects. The majority of the body's T3 (about 80%) comes from this conversion via the first two types of deiodinase, while conversion to an inactive state is accomplished by the third type.

It’s important to note that not all of the body’s T4 is converted to T3, however- some remains unconverted. The secretion of T4 is under the control of Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) which is produced by the pituitary gland. TSH secretion is in turn controlled through release of Thyrotropin Releasing Hormone which is produced in your hypothalamus. So, when T3 levels go up, TSH secretion is suppressed, due to the body’s self regulatory system known as the "negative feedback loop" . This is also the mechanism whereby exogenous thyroid hormone suppresses natural thyroid hormone production. However, it should be noted that thyroid stimulating hormone (like all other hormones) can not work in a vacuum. TSH also requires the presence of Insulin or Insulin-like Growth Factor to stimulate thyroid function (1) When thyroid hormone is present without either insulin or IGF-1, it has no physiological effect (ibid).

Most people think that T3 is just a physiologically active hormone that regulates bodyfat setpoint and has some minor anabolic effects, but in actuality, in some cases of delayed growth in children, T3 is actually too low, while GH levels are normal, and this has a growth limiting effect on several tissues (2) This could be due to T3’s ability to stimulate the proliferation of IGF-1 mRNA in many tissues (which would, of course, be anabolic), or it could be due to the synergistic effect T3 has on GH, specifically on regulation of the growth hormone gene. Although it is largely overlooked in the world of performance enhancement, regulation of the growth hormone response is predominantly determined by positive control of growth hormone gene transcription which is proportional to the concentration of thyroid hormone-receptor complexes, which are influenced by T3 levels. (3)

At this point, just to give you a better understanding of what’s going on, I think it’s prudent to also give a brief explanation of Growth Hormone (GH) as well.

Your body’s GH is regulated by many internal factors, such as hormones and enzymes. hormones. A change in the level of your body’s GH output begins in the hypothalamus with somatostatin (SS) and growth hormone-releasing hormone (GHRH). Somatostatin exerts its effect at the pituitary to decrease GH output, while GHRH acts at the pituitary to increase GH output. Together these hormones regulate the level of GH you have in your body. In many cases, GH deficiency presents with a low level of T3, and normal T4(4). This is of course because conversion of T4-T3 is partially dependant on GH (and to some degree GH stimulated IGF-1), and it’s ability to stimulate that conversion process of T4 into T3.

Interestingly, the hypothalamus isn’t the only place where SS is contained; the thyroid gland also contains Somatostatin-producing cells. This is of interest to us, because in the case of the thyroid, it’s been noted that certain hormones which were previously thought only to govern GH secretion can also influence thyroid hormone output as well. SS can directly act to inhibit TSH secretion or it may act on the hypothalamus to inhibit TRH secretion. So when you add GH into your body from an outside source, you are triggering the body into releasing SS, because your body no longer needs to produce its own supply of GH…and unfortunately, the release of SS can also inhibit TSH, and therefore limit the amount of T4 your body produces.

But that’s not the only interaction we see between the thyroid and Growth Hormone.

As we learned in high-school Biology class, the body likes to maintain homeostasis, or "normal" operating conditions. This is the body’s version of the status quo, and it fights like hell to maintain the comfort of the status quo (much like moderators on most steroid discussion boards). What we see with thyroid/GH interplay is that physiological levels of circulating thyroid hormones are necessary to maintain normal pituitary GH secretion, due to their directly stimulatory actions. However, when serum concentrations of thyroid hormone increase above the normal range we see an increase in hypothalamic somatostatin action, which suppresses pituitary GH secretion and overrides any stimulatory effects that the thyroid hormone may have had on GH. The suppression of GH secretion by thyroid hormones is probably mediated at the hypothalamic level by a decrease in GHRH release(5).

In addition, as IGF-I production is increased in the hypothalamus after T3 administration and T3 may participate in IGF-1 mediated negative feedback of GH by triggering either increased somatostatin tone and/or decreased GHRH production (6). IGF, interestingly, has the ability to mediate some of T3’s effects independent of GH, but not to the same degree GH can (7.) In fact, IGF-I production is increased in the hypothalamus after T3, administration it may plausibly participate in negative feedback by triggering either increased somatostatin tone and/or decreased GHRH production. So we know that GH lowers T4 (more about this in a sec), but an increase in T3 upregulates GH receptors (8) as well as IGF-1 receptors (9,10).

As can be previously stated, and due to the ability of GH to convert inactive T4 into active T3, GH administration in healthy athletes shows us an entirely predicatble increase in mean free T3 (fT3), and a decrease in mean free T4 (fT4) levels.(11)

Interaction between GH, IGF-I, T3, and GC. GH stimulates hepatic IGF-I secretion and local production of growth plate IGF-I, and exerts direct actions in the growth plate. Circulating T3 is derived from the thyroid gland and by enzymatic deiodination of T4 in liver and kidne.. The regulatory 5'-DI and 11ßHSD type 2 enzymes may also be expressed in chondrocytes to control local supplies of intracellular T3 and GC. Receptors for each hormone (GHR, IGF-IR, TR, GR) are expressed in growth plate chondrocytes.

So, with the use of GH, what we see is an increased conversion of T4-T3, and possible inhibition of Thyroid Releasing Hormone by Somatostatin, and therefore even though T3 levels may rise, there is no increase in T4 (logically, we see a decrease). Now, as we’ve seen, GH is HIGHLY synergistic with T3 in the body, and as a mater of fact, if you’ve been paying any attention up until this point, you’ll note that the limiting factor on GH’s ability to exert many of it’s effects, is mediated by the amount of T3 in the body.

As noted before, T3 enhances many effects of GH by several mechanisms, including (but not limited to): increasing IGF-1 levels, IGF-1 mRNA levels, and finally by actually mediating the control of the growth hormone gene transcription process as seen below:

Comparison of the kinetics of L-T3-receptor binding abundance to changes in the rate of transcription of the GH gene.(3)

As you can see, T3 levels are directly correlative to GH gene transcription. The scientists who conducted the study which provided the graph above concluded that the amount of T3 present is a regulatory factor on how much GH gene transcription actually occurs. And gene transcription is what actually gives us the effects from GH. This last fact really seems to shed some light on why we need T3 levels to be supraphysiological if we’re going to be using supraphysiological levels of GH, right? Otherwise, the GH we’re using is going to be limited by the amount of T3 our body produces. However, since we’re taking GH, and it is converting more T4 into T3, T4 levels are lowered substantially, and this is the problem with GH. and may actually be THE limiting factor on GH…if we assume that at least some of GH’s effects are enhanced by thyroid hormone, and specifically T3, then what we are looking at is the GH that has been injected is being limited by a lack of T3. But that doesn’t make sense, because if we use T3 + GH, we get a decrease in the anabolic effect of GH.

This is where Mr. Daemon, who had contacted me via an e-mail to my publisher, about Thyroid + GH interaction, was able to shed some light on things. You see, I knew that it couldn’t just be the actual presence of enough T3 along with the GH that was limiting GH’s anabolic effect, because, simply adding T3 to a GH cycle will reduce the anabolic effect of the GH (12.).

Originally, he had said to me that T3 was synergistic with GH, wheras I said that T3 actually reduced the anabolic effects of GH- now I realize we were both correct. Logically this presents a bit of a problem, which I believe can be solved. This came from reading several studies provided to me by Dr.Daemon. the trend I was seeing was that even when Growth Hormone therapy was used, T3 levels needed to be elevated in order to treat several conditions caused by a lack of natural growth hormone. And even if the patient was on GH, T3 levels still needed to be elevated. And what I noticed was that those levels were elevated successfully by using supplemental T4 but not T3.

Here’s why I think this is:

Additional T3 is not all that’s needed here. What’s needed is the actual conversion process of T4-T3, and the deiodinase presence and activity that it involves. This is because Local 5'-deiodination of l-thyroxine (T4) to active the thyroid hormone 3,3',5-tri-iodothyronine (T3) is catalyzed by the two 5'-deiodinase enzymes (D1 and D2). These enzymes not only "create" T3 out of T4, but actually regulates various T(3)-dependent functions in many tissues including the anterior pituitary and liver. So when there is an excess of T3 in the body, but normal levels of T4, the body’s thyroid axis sends a negative feedback signal., and produces less (D1 and D2) deiodinase, but more of the D3 type, which signals the cessation of the T4-T3 conversion process, and is inhibitory of many of the synergistic effects that T3 has! Remember, Type 3 iodothyronine deiodinase (D3) is the physiologic INACTIVATOR of thyroid hormones and their effects (13) and is well known to have independent interaction with growth factors (which is what GH and IGF-1 are).(14) This is because with adequate T4 and excess T3, (D1 and D2) deiodinase is no longer needed for conversion of T4 into T3, but levels of D3 deiodinase will be elevated. When there is less of the first two types of deidinase, it would seem that the T3 which has been converted to T4 can not exert it’s protein sparing (anabolic effects), as those first two types are responsible for mediation of many of the effects T3 has on the body. This seems to be one of the ways deiodinase contributes to anabolism in the presence of other hormones.

All of this would explain why anecdotally we see bodybuilders who use T3 lose a lot of muscle if they aren’t using anabolics along with it- they’re not utilizing the enzyme that would regulate some of T3’s ability to stimulate protein synthesis, while they are simultaneously signaling the body to produce an inhibitory enzyme (D3). And remember, for decades bodybuilders who were dieting for a contest have been convinced that you lose less muscle with T4 use, but that it’s less effective for losing fat when compared with T3? Well, as we’ve seen, without something (GH in this case) to aid in the conversion process, it would clearly be less effective! Since the deiodinase enzyme is also located in the liver, and we see decreased hepatic nitrogen clearance with GH + T3, it would seem that the D3 enzyme is exerting it’s inhibitory effects, but in the absence of the effects of the first two deiodinase enzymes, it remains unchecked and therefore not only limits the GH’s nitrogen retention capability.

In other words, if we have enough to GH in our body aid in supraphysiological conversion of T4 into T3, but we already have the too much (exogenous) T3, the GH is not going to be converting any excess T4 into T3 after a certain point- which would be a limiting factor in GH’s anabolic effects, when coupled with the act that we’ve allowed the D3 enzyme to inhibit the T3/GH synergy that is necessary.

As further evidence, when we look at certain types of cellular growth (the cartilage cell in this case) we see that GH induced rises in IGF-I stimulates proliferation, whereas T3 is responsible for hypertrophic differentiation. So it would seem that in some tissues, IGF-1 stimulates the synthesis of new cells, while T3 makes them larger. In this particular case, The fact that T4 and (D1) deiodinase is am active component in this system is noted by the authors. They clearly state (paraphrasing) that: "T4 is is converted to T3 by deiodinase (5'-DI type 1) in peripheral tissues…[furthermore]GH stimulates conversion of T4 to T3 , suggesting that some effects of GH may involve this pathway." The thing I want you to notice is that the authors of this paper state that the that the conversion PATHWAY is probably involved, and not the simple presence of T3. (15 )

Also, that same study notes that T3 has the ability to stimulates IGF-I and expression in tissues that whereas GH has no such effect (ibid).

So what are we doing when we add T3 to GH? We’re effectively shutting down the conversion pathway that is responsible for some of GH’s effects! And what would we be doing if we added in T4 instead of T3? You got it- we’d be enhancing the pathway by allowing the GH we’re using to have more T4 to convert to T3, thus giving us more of an effect from the GH we’re taking. Adding T4 into our GH cycles will actually allow more of the GH to be used effectively!

Remember, the thing that catalyzes the conversion process is the deiodinase enzyme. This is also why using low amounts of T3 would seem (again, anecdotally in bodybuilders) to be able to slightly increase protein synthesis and have an anabolic effect – they aren’t using enough to tell the body to stop or slow down production of the deiodinase enzyme, and hence .Although this analogy isn’t perfect, think of GH as a supercharger you have attached to your car…if you don’t provide enough fuel for it to burn at it’s increased output level, you aren’t going to derive the full effects. Thyroid status also may influence IGF-I expression in tissues other than the liver.So what we have here is a problem. When we take GH, it lowers T3 levels…but we need T3 to keep our GH receptor levels optimally upregulated. In addition, it’s suspected that many of GH’s anabolic effects are engendered as a result of production of IGF-1, so keeping our IGF receptors upregulated by maintaining adequate levels of T3 seems prudent. But as we’ve just seen, supplementing T3 with our GH will abolish Growth Hormone’s functional hepatic nitrogen clearance, possibly through the effect of reducing the bioavailability of insulin-like growth factor-I (12.)

So we want elevated T3 levels when we take GH, or we won’t be getting ANYWHERE NEAR the full anabolic effect of our injectable GH without enough T3. And now we know that not only do we need the additional T3, but we actually want the CONVERSION process of T4 into T3 to take place, because it’s the presence of those mediator enzymes that will allow the T3 to be synergistic with GH, instead of being inhibitory as is seen when T3 is simply added to a GH cycle. And remember, we don’t only want T3 levels high, but we want types 1 and 2 deiodinase to get us there- and when we take supplemental T3, that just doesn’t happen…all that happens is the type 3 deiodinase enzyme shows up and negates the beneficial effects of the T3 when we combine it with GH.

And that’s where myself and Dr. Daemon ended up, after a week of e-mails, researching studies, and gathering clues.

If you’ve been using GH without T4, you’ve been wasting half your money – and if you’ve been using it with T3, you’ve been wasting your time. Start using T4 with your GH, and you’ll finally be getting the full results from your investment.

References:

Growth Factors. 1990;2(2-3):99-109.Interaction of TSH, insulin and insulin-like growth factors in regulating thyroid growth and function. Eggo MC, Bachrach LK, Burrow GN.

F, Rumpler M, Klaushofer K 1994 Thyroid hormones increase insulin-like growth factor mRNA levels in the clonal osteoblastic cell line MC3T3- E1. FEBS Lett 345: 67–70

Relationship of the rate of transcription to the level of nuclear thyroid hormone-receptor complexes.J Biol Chem. 1984 May 25;259(10):6284-91. Yaffe BM, Samuels HH.

Thyroid morphology and function in adults with untreated isolated growth hormone deficiency. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Mar;91(3):860-4. Epub 2006 Jan 4.

Eur J Endocrinol.1995 Dec;133(6):646-53.Influence of thyroid hormones on the regulation of growth hormone secretion. Giustina A, Wehrenberg WB.

Binoux M, Faivre-Bauman A, Lassarre C, Tixier-Vidal A 1985 Triiodothyronine stimulates the production of insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) by fetal hypothalamus cells cultured in serum free medium. Dev Brain Res 21:319–323

Eur J Endocrinol. 1996 May;134(5):563-7.Insulin-like growth factor I alters peripheral thyroid hormone metabolism in humans: comparison with growth hormone.Hussain MA, Schmitz O, Jorgensen JO, Christiansen JS, Weeke J, Schmid C, Froesch ER

Harakawa S, Yamashita S, Tobinaga T, Matsuo K, Hirayu H, Izumi M, Nagataki S, Melmed S. In vivo regulation of hepatic insulin-like growth factor-1 messenger ribonucleic acids with thyroid hormone. Endocrinol Jpn 37(2):205-11, 1990

Hochberg Z, Bick T, Harel Z Alterations of human growth hormone binding by rat liver membranes during hypo- and hyperthyroidism. Endocrinology 126(1):325-9, 1990

Matsuo K, Yamashita S, Niwa M, Kurihara M, Harakawa S, Izumi M, Nagataki S, Melmed S Thyroid hormone regulates rat pituitary insulin-like growth factor-I receptors. Endocrinology 126(1):550-4, 1990

The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 88, No. 11 5221-5226, 2003. High Dose Growth Hormone Exerts an Anabolic Effect at Rest and during Exercise in Endurance-Trained Athletes M. L. Healy, J. Gibney, D. L. Russell-Jones, C. Pentecost, P. Croos, P. H. Sönksen and A. M. Umpleby

J Hepatol. 1996 Mar;24(3):313-9. Effects of long-term growth hormone (GH) and triiodothyronine (T3) administration on functional hepatic nitrogen clearance in normal man.Wolthers T, Grofte T, Moller N, Vilstrup H, Jorgensen JO

Huang, SA. Physiology and pathophysiology of type 3 deiodinase in humans. Thyroid. 2005 Aug;15(8):875-81. Review.

Hernandez. A. Structure and function of the type 3 deiodinase gene.Thyroid. 2005 Aug;15(8):865-74. Review.

F, Rumpler M, Klaushofer K 1994 Thyroid hormones increase insulin-like growth factor mRNA levels in the clonal osteoblastic cell line MC3T3- E1. FEBS Lett 345: 67–70

Read more from this MESO-Rx article at: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/anthony-roberts/thyroid-and-growth-hormone.htm#ixzz1DbMaH4nl


Ive read it a few years ago...nothing new...what seems great in theory doesnt always work out in reality...as in this case.
P

[Vitamin S]

p,

1. can u nuke liquid pasterized egg whites in microwave to save time?

2. can you also heat up tuna in a frying pan when making stir fry or does it kill the protien in tuna?

3. what about heating up protein powder in microwave to make like a hot coca type of latte, like skim milk with cappucino flavored protien blended then nuked to warm it up, will that kill or spoil the protein in whey?

thanks

[IronMan]

p,

1. can u nuke liquid pasterized egg whites in microwave to save time?

2. can you also heat up tuna in a frying pan when making stir fry or does it kill the protien in tuna?

3. what about heating up protein powder in microwave to make like a hot coca type of latte, like skim milk with cappucino flavored protien blended then nuked to warm it up, will that kill or spoil the protein in whey?

thanks


I know I'm not P, but I might be able to answer it as I'm studying to be a nutritionist.

Heat denatures protein's period. I could go into the biochemistry specifics if you want. Whey protein is especially sensitive to heat denaturing. That's why "good" whey protein manufacturers cold temperature process their proteins. Processes like Ion Exchange, and non cold temperature processing makes the protein less bio-available.

So your best bet is to lightly grill, pan fry, or lightly steam your meats, and just drink your protein shakes cold. Don't heat them! I even go as far as eating my salmon raw sushi style, its called Sashimi.

Even when it comes to veggies, ALWAYS raw. They are a select few like yellow onions and a few others that are best lightly sauteed. But the rest of the veggies are always best eaten raw. Many studies have shown even lightly steaming them kills live enzymes and nutrients in them.

[IronMan]

I would also like to know what Prae thinks about this! He has years of experience and is a bottomless pit of knowledge!

[Praetorian]

p,

1. can u nuke liquid pasterized egg whites in microwave to save time?

***sure

2. can you also heat up tuna in a frying pan when making stir fry or does it kill the protien in tuna?

***definitely not

3. what about heating up protein powder in microwave to make like a hot coca type of latte, like skim milk with cappucino flavored protien blended then nuked to warm it up, will that kill or spoil the protein in whey?

***no
.
thanks



P

[BMac]

Hey P, my Hams are lacking big time, for ham work do you prefer stiff leg deads or good mornings?

[Praetorian]

Hey P, my Hams are lacking big time, for ham work do you prefer stiff leg deads or good mornings?

Both work well but glute ham raises are number one for hamstring development.
P

[fathead]

what would be the shortest amount of time between meals you would allow while dieting?

is 2 hours too close together?

i shoot for 2.5-3 hours but if you are running behind at all you have almost no window for error

[Praetorian]

what would be the shortest amount of time between meals you would allow while dieting?

is 2 hours too close together?

i shoot for 2.5-3 hours but if you are running behind at all you have almost no window for error

3 hours is best...i never run behind because im up at 6am...everything is according to a plan.
P

[Vitamin S]

has anyone ever won the mr. olympia while being on a keto diet such as dave palumbos?

[fathead]

any suggestions for how to perform a glute ham raise without a glute ham bench?

ive tried to kneel backwards on a lat pull down but the seat isnt wide enough

[Praetorian]

has anyone ever won the mr. olympia while being on a keto diet such as dave palumbos?

Frank Zane 3 times.
P

[Praetorian]

any suggestions for how to perform a glute ham raise without a glute ham bench?

ive tried to kneel backwards on a lat pull down but the seat isnt wide enough

Kneel on a mat, have someone hold your legs or hook them under a bar and fall forward and pull yourself back up.
P

[White T]

I highly doubt your hormones would be screwed up from finastride..i think its more of an internet scare than anything. If it was actually causing serious issues it would have been taken off the market long ago. If in doubt get another blood test to be sure...its free and easy.
As for the next cycle I would recommend test enanthate or cypionate with an anabolic such as EQ or deca.
P

P,

Took your recommendation and started my cycle 1 week ago. Are there any changes or additions that should be made?

1-12 Test E 500mg/week (Every 3.5 days)
1-8 NPP 437.5mg/week (EOD. 125mg/ml NPP shot every 48 hours)

I have HCG, Aromasin, Nolvadex for PCT.

Goal is to put on mass. Currently 6'5" 250lbs.

Should a semi-strict diet be followed or is it better to be liberal with food and try to eat as much as possible while keeping the food as healthy as possible? I'm confused on how I should be eating on the cycle.

Thank you

[Praetorian]

P,

Took your recommendation and started my cycle 1 week ago. Are there any changes or additions that should be made?

1-12 Test E 500mg/week (Every 3.5 days)***for a 250lb guy thats somewhat low but you can see how it goes

1-8 NPP 437.5mg/week (EOD. 125mg/ml NPP shot every 48 hours) ***I would prefer deca but your choice

I have HCG, Aromasin, Nolvadex for PCT.

Goal is to put on mass. Currently 6'5" 250lbs.

Should a semi-strict diet be followed or is it better to be liberal with food and try to eat as much as possible while keeping the food as healthy as possible? I'm confused on how I should be eating on the cycle.

***at 6'5 250 you are going to need to eat alot of calories and protein 6-7 meals per day

Thank you


P

[kawikaratekid]

Hey P,

What dose would you recommend for him?

[Praetorian]

Hey P,

What dose would you recommend for him?

750mg test +400 deca
P

[White T]

Thank you P.

I started day 8 today. I am changing the Test E to 250mg every 2.5 days, which will bring the dosage to 700mg/week.

NPP will remain EOD @ 125mg = 437.5mg/week.

This will fall close to your recommendation aside from using NPP in lieu of Deca.

Thank you for your help once again, much appreciated.

[Praetorian]

Thank you P.

I started day 8 today. I am changing the Test E to 250mg every 2.5 days, which will bring the dosage to 700mg/week.

NPP will remain EOD @ 125mg = 437.5mg/week.

This will fall close to your recommendation aside from using NPP in lieu of Deca.

Thank you for your help once again, much appreciated.

Let us know how it goes.
P

[Vitamin S]

for someone who weighs 245, but has a lean body mass of 210, what numbers would i use for the dave palumbo diet in terms of protein, carbs, fats per each of the six meals?

[JacktheThriller]

dp diet is based on lean mass, start with the 200pd template and if your losing too fast add an oz of meat somewhere

[Praetorian]

for someone who weighs 245, but has a lean body mass of 210, what numbers would i use for the dave palumbo diet in terms of protein, carbs, fats per each of the six meals?

You would use the DP diet for a 200lb male...dont worry about the macros per meal...just follow the diet.
P

[Praetorian]

dp diet is based on lean mass, start with the 200pd template and if your losing too fast add an oz of meat somewhere

Ive never seen anyone lose too fast...especially if they arent doing cardio...(remember weight loss during the first two weeks is mostly water and doesnt count as fast) there really is no reason to add meat to the diet...unless your lean mass is close to 250lbs the diet is fine.
P

[solectronlondon]

P,
what are your thoughts on DNP?

[Praetorian]

P,
what are your thoughts on DNP?

There is simply no good reason to use it. The risk to benefit ratio is extremely high and there are much safer more effective products available.
P

[Vitamin S]

p,

i got some t3 cytomel brand name tiromel from europe. they are 25mcg pills not sure how to take them. what is the usual protocal like, and any side effects i should be aware of or conditions before starting. i am not taking any other fat burners with it, just test 500mg a week and 300mg of npp with 75mg of winny.

do i take it empty stomach, what is max dose, what is min dose for effectiveness. also i smoke weed reguarly will that effect it, does it effect heart rate or sleep patterns. thx pal

[massabsamurai]

hey p, would you recommend clen or winny? I'm on dp's cutting diet, 4th week in. I'll also be using lipolyze. Thanks

[gicantor]

Hey P,

I started a keto diet last tuesday(first time running it) following the dave p template and have a few questions:

1. I just realized my whey protein has 2g carbs per serving. With the amount of servings I'm taking it will give me 15g of carbs a day. Is this enough to keep me from going into ketosis? Should I find a different protein?

2. What rep range should I be training in? Heavier between 6-8 or 8-12?

3. Should I be training to failure still?

4. Is one hour of cardio a day enough?

Also fyi I'm not competing just want to lean out a bit. Thanks.

[Praetorian]

p,

i got some t3 cytomel brand name tiromel from europe. they are 25mcg pills not sure how to take them. what is the usual protocal like, and any side effects i should be aware of or conditions before starting. i am not taking any other fat burners with it, just test 500mg a week and 300mg of npp with 75mg of winny.

do i take it empty stomach, what is max dose, what is min dose for effectiveness. also i smoke weed reguarly will that effect it, does it effect heart rate or sleep patterns. thx pal

25mcg twice daily to start and ramp up by 12.5mcg every two weeks until you hit 75mcg...then run it there until diet is over and ramp down. You can run T3 for 16 weeks without issue...but as with any drug there are always potential risks and sides. No issues with test, Npp or winny. Split the dose thru the day...with meals is fine. Dont take before bed as it can affect sleep.
P

[Praetorian]

hey p, would you recommend clen or winny? I'm on dp's cutting diet, 4th week in. I'll also be using lipolyze. Thanks

Well clen and winny are two completely different compounds used for completely different purposes...clen is a fat burner...Winstrol is NOT. Winstrol is a cosmetic hardener so it all depends on what outcome you are looking for.
P

[Praetorian]

Hey P,

I started a keto diet last tuesday(first time running it) following the dave p template and have a few questions:

1. I just realized my whey protein has 2g carbs per serving. With the amount of servings I'm taking it will give me 15g of carbs a day. Is this enough to keep me from going into ketosis? Should I find a different protein?

***no issue with that protein...youll be fine

2. What rep range should I be training in? Heavier between 6-8 or 8-12?

***6-8 reps...max 10 on legs

3. Should I be training to failure still?

**up to failure...never beyond, no forced reps etc, no supersets either

4. Is one hour of cardio a day enough?

**starting cardio should be 30min once per day and work up from there...by the end of the diet u could be doing 2 hours daily...depends on your metabolism...some do more...some less

Also fyi I'm not competing just want to lean out a bit. Thanks.

***makes no difference...the diet, cardio etc is the same...you can just stop when you are at the level of BF you are happy with


P

[Praetorian]

Love these quotes by Mark Ripptoe.
P


"I don't go to titty bars much anymore. They have never really appealed to me. Like going into an expensive restaurant, reading the menu for 2 hours, drinking a little, then getting up and leaving without having had anything to eat but paying the bill anyway."
We knew the chickenshit mother****ers were going to pirate us no matter how cheap we made the DVD, and that there would be chickenshit mother****ers who would steal it. Can't be helped without a massive eugenics program.
"Yes, if you squat wrong it ****s things up. If you squat correctly, those same ****ed-up things will un**** themselves."
"And the book is not any more expensive in Australia than it is here except for the shipping, which is what you get for living in Australia."
"Thanks for the kind words, but if SS is the most interesting book you've ever read, you must have just started reading a couple of weeks ago."
Poor form in the gym is caused by insufficient yelling.
I can teach idiots to squat in ten minutes.
There are many levels of understanding [of trainees] and you should be in command of most of them..
"Natural athletes are visual learners".
"Mediocre athletes that tried like hell to get good are the best coaches".
People at the Division One and pro level rarely know what the hell they are doing, their athletes are pre-sorted".
"Joe Jurrasic"
"They are already strong or they would not be on the Dallas Cowboys" (On the relative lack of importance of proper training by pro football players,etc.).
"He does not know that Hammer Strength machines are pieces of shit" (On coaches lack of insight into the importance of genetics among pro athletes).
"The spine is best at bearing a load in an arch".
"The Olympic Snatch is gymnastics with a bar".
"Perfect is the enemy of good".
You are right to be wary. There is much bullshit. Be wary of me too, because I may be wrong. Make up your own mind after you evaluate all the evidence and the logic.
On response to a guy who had some life problems lately and afraid of sounding like a "pussy": You don't sound like a pussy at all. You sound like a normal human being, just like me, who thankfully has a barbell to keep him sane when things get shitty...and realize that one workout out of thousands does not affect your overall progress. Training is a process, not the events of one day
There is simply no other exercise, and certainly no machine, that produces the level of central nervous system activity, improved balance and coordination, skeletal loading and bone density enhancement, muscular stimulation and growth, connective tissue stress and strength, psychological demand and toughness, and overall systemic conditioning than the correctly performed full squat.
Ask Old Santa for a squat rack. Preferably one that won't fit down the chimney. You can't do the program without it, and that would leave you forever an elf.
Responding to someone who wanted the book spoon fed to them:
Steve, buddy, the plan is in the ****ing book. That's what the book is about. That's why I wrote the book. This is a Q&A for people who are already using the plan IN THE ****ING BOOK. Get it, read it, and use it. Really, the book is too long to post here. Get the ****ing book.

Anyone who says that full squats are "bad for the knees" has, with that statement, demonstrated conclusively that they are not entitled to an opinion about the matter. People who know nothing about a topic, especially a very technical one that requires specific training, knowledge, and experience, are not due an opinion about that topic and are better served by being quiet when it is asked about or discussed. For example, when brain surgery, or string theory, or the NFL draft, or women's dress sizes, or white wine is being discussed, I remain quiet, odd though that may seem. But seldom is this the case when orthopedic surgeons, athletic trainers, physical therapists, or nurses are asked about full squats.
"If you had to choose between wearing no shoes or running shoes to lift in which would you pick?"
Rip's response: "That is like asking me to choose between stabbing myself in the eye with a fork or burning the roof of my mouth with extremely hot pizza. Can't we just avoid both?"

One does not assemble a book of one's own witty aphorisms without being thought such a fool that any value the book might have would be rather thoroughly compromised.
Absolutely not. Never -- and I mean NEVER -- try anything that someone in authority, like Me, has not specifically approved in advance. This is not allowed, and is specifically prohibited, because if you do this irresponsible thing -- this Trying Things For Yourself -- you might learn on your own, and again, this is PROHIBITED.
Let me ask you a question: Are you from North Korea?

Speaking of kettlebells snatches shoulder position and the Russian: I am a child of the Cold War. I don't like them.
If every day of your life you are told by authority figures that the Earth is flat, you will be scared of falling off the edge whether you want to be or not.
My opinion about barbell rows is as follows: **** barbell rows. Really. **** them. Stop wasting time worrying about barbell rows and get your deadlift up to 500. By then you'll have your own opinion and you won't have to worry about mine.
My program is 3x/week barbell training until the strength gains produced by linear progression are exhausted. That's it, the whole program. Adding a bunch of other stuff in, or even adding a little other stuff in makes it NOT MY PROGRAM, because it fundamentally alters your response to the stress. Do what you want, of course, but it won't be my program if you do it your way.
Q: This is as SERIOUS, question... life and death. Are you a trekkie Rip? Be honest.
A: I watch the show, yes. Okay, **** you. I am one of the proud folks who, at the age of 9, 10, and 11 were privileged to watch the first series in its entirety every week without missing a single episode. Mr. Spock raised me, Captain Kirk taught me about women, and Mr. Scott is responsible for my malt whisky habit. I have not watched TV hardly at all since about 1980, but I did see all of the Next Generation shows. I have no use for Deep Space Nine, Voyager, or Enterprise. Once again, **** you.

Opinions are like phasers -- everybody ought to have one.
(A thread from someone worried about learning/doing power cleans by himself)
Usually, people just feel intimidated by anything that resembles a technical exercise and just would rather not do them. This is just being a pussy, and sets a bad precedent for the management of both training and life. I think the Starting Strength includes an understandable method for learning to power clean, and just in case it's not simple enough I rewrote it for the new book so that it is even simpler. You don't really need bumper plates to do them if you don't have access, so that doesn't wash either. They are in the program because an explosive movement is a valuable contribution to power production, and they make deadlifts get stronger faster.

Okay, you don't need a coach to learn power cleans, because we fixed things up so that you can learn them out of the book. And what exactly is the downside of trying to learn them and failing? Firing squad? The ****ing bodybuilders making fun of you from the safety of the dumbbell rack? Loss of wages? Just try them before you decide you can't learn them without a coach.

"...what should my ideal body weight be for this program? Have you made a table for this, or what do you recommend?" - trainee
"Your ideal bodyweight as an ectomorph at 6' 0" will be 214.378 lbs. There. Happy? And if you lose or gain a pound, I will have you killed. It is important to be ideal.." - Rip

(A guy gives a very detail problem of bowel trouble while squatting and ask if Rip or his trainees had similar problems)
Jesus, Andrew, I could have gone a long time without having to hear about this. The obvious fix is to take a newspaper into the bathroom and not to come out until the whole thing is read. Just before you train. Works for me every time.

(A guy asks if hack squat is useful since his college does not have any squat racks only squat machines)
I recommend that you change colleges.

I don't even like Greg Glassman. I don't have a cult like allegiance to the guy. I really don't like him. He's too hard to get on the phone and he doesn't drink my kind of scotch.
If nothing is wrong with your shoulders, benches are fine. But when someone asks me about rotator cuff injuries, I assume they're not asking for their cat.
And folks, for weight-gaining purposes, "eating clean" is not a useful concept. Big Macs are.
I have bought 4-6 double cheeseburgers and thrown away the bread many times. But I think they just raised the price from $1 to $1.25. Rapists.
The bulk/cut approach holds that you can either add muscle or lose bodyfat, and that all training should be concerned with one or the other. This assumes that aesthetics is the criterion by which progress is measured, that pictures therefore tell the story, and that picture magazines can be the arbiters of success. This type of thinking completely ignores the performance aspects of training, and performance is much more easily and rapidly influenced. Rapid, quantifiable progress keeps motivation high, much higher than waiting for a six-pack that may or may not show up.
You guys that worry about eating clean are actually merely bodybuilders looking for justification for your obsession with abs. You cannot get big and strong on 3000 kcal/day. And you cannot eat 7000/day and eat perfectly "clean".
On resting in between reps: It varies with the length of the set. 5s or fewer get a breath to reset. Longer sets might take 2 breaths. During the last few reps of a true 20RM squat, just do what Jesus tells you.
Trust me, if you do an honest 20 rep program, at some point Jesus will talk to you. On the last day of the program, he asked if he could work in.
If you can't train and work in a warehouse at the same time, you probably have ovarian cancer. Consult your gynecologist.
Your muscles cannot get “longer” without some rather radical orthopedic surgery.
Muscles don’t get leaner—you do.
There is no such thing as “firming and toning.” There is only stronger and weaker.
The vast majority of women cannot get large, masculine muscles from barbell training. If it were that easy, I would have them.
Women who do look like men have taken some rather drastic steps in that direction that have little to do with their exercise program.
Women who claim to be afraid to train hard because they “always bulk up too much” are often already pretty bulky, or “skinny fat” (thin but weak and deconditioned) and have found another excuse to continue life sitting on their butts.
Only people willing to work to the point of discomfort on a regular basis using effective means to produce that discomfort will actually look like they have been other-than-comfortable most of the time. You can thank the muscle magazines for these persistent misconceptions, along with the natural tendency of all normal humans to seek reasons to avoid hard physical exertion.
I don't read around the web much, because I'm old and busy, and just haven't got time. If I'm on the Internet, I'd rather be looking at porn.
On the ethics of meat eating:
Okay, have you ever been around chickens? They are stupid, uncooperative, inconvenient, ill-tempered creatures. They get what they deserve. **** chickens.

Testosterone levels peak in our mid-twenties, hold relatively steady for another decade, and then begin to fall like women’s clothes at the kinds of parties we don’t get invited to any more.
We don't wear singlets because A...one...they're gay.
Baby mammals drink milk, and you sir, are a baby mammal.
Rip: "You would look better if you gained about 10 lbs of muscle" Woman responds with look of utter horror. Rip: "Trust me, I've been looking at women a long time, and I'm really good at it."
your DNA is smarter then the people at IDEA
Here in Texas, the Highway Patrol has a slogan "Click it or Ticket" to help motorist remember to wear their seat belt.
As Rip is driving off on his new motorcycle he says, "this is my response to 'click it or ticket'. Typical Rip reasoning.

Girls don't like big pecs! they like money and "this"!(as he indicates with his hand mid thigh on the leg)
I just don't miss [having big pecs] that much, and I don't care what my pecs look like anymore. It is now sufficient that I am merely hung well.
You must wear socks or workout pants on the Dead Lifts. We don't want your DNA on the barbell.
Rip whispered this into a woman's ear (who had severe kyphosis and had a very difficult time pulling her shoulders back/pushing her chest out) while coaching her bench press:
"Now, push your tits toward me."

She immediately corrected her kyphosis and had AMAZING bench press form -- despite the fact that she and Rip were laughing so hard, the rest of us couldn't WAIT to know what the coaching cue was that worked so well.

What we're trying to do is get things fixed, not allow them to stay broke.
Does a bigger motor slow the car down? No. But a bunch of junk in the trunk does.
I'm not interested in what's been done in the past. I'm interested in what should be done.
Yes, you're absolutely right, the books are so disorganized as to be all but unusable, especially in the absence of the ability to exercise one's own judgment and apply a bit of common sense. Please e-mail me your mailing address and I shall refund all of your money, including shipping, you ****ing idiot.
The interesting thing is that everybody really already knows this, because there are few examples in life that don’t follow the basic rules of the universe, the ones that dictate the behavior of everything. One of the most basic of those rules is that, with the exception of the occasional lottery winner, you pretty much get out of an effort what you put into it. We’re all quite familiar with this reality, although we are often willing to believe people who tell us otherwise, about exercise and about life. The sooner everybody—both halves of the population—accepts the fact that effective exercise is more like training for athletics and less like lying around on the floor, more about performance and less about appearance, the sooner it will be understood that women really don’t need their own figure salon.
Any idiot can get on a treadmill and watch TV and then take great pride in the fact they've 'exercized.
Well, Rip knows that a 135-pound, 5’ 9”, 18-year-old kid doesn’t look like either Ronnie or Rip, even if he has a twelve-pack, and that if he seriously wants to head in that direction the first thing to do is to gain about 60 pounds. Ole Rip also knows that women don’t really care about abs. They care about Other Things. And after all, you asked Rip; he didn’t ask you. So put down your Muscle and Fiction, do your squats, drink your milk, and pay better attention to the answers when you ask the questions.
When a guy (Alex) asked what to do about his balls hurting after squats...
Alex, buddy, you're on your own here. Unless we get some other input. My balls haven't hurt since 1973, when I learned how to finish what I started.

If you want to look like a bodybuilder, that's fine with me. That is a matter for you to discuss with your God and your psychologist. But even a bodybuilder is a novice strength trainee until he's an intermediate. The fastest way to gain muscular bodyweight -- the supposed goal of a bodybuilder -- is with a linear progression on the basic barbell exercises. And 5s are the way this progression works best.
And no, you don't excrete excess calories, because evolution didn't see fit to exterminate the species in this way. If that happened, fat people would be in zoos where they belong since they'd be quite rare.
There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a pussy.
I was driving home the other night, listening to the radio, and the guy filling in for Art Bell on Coast to Coast AM was talking to some other guy about Nazis, UFOs, the Kennedy Assassination, time travel, and George Bush, and how it all relates to OneWorldGovernment. This, of course, made me think about barbell training...
(in reference to a bicyclist who seemed to be saying that riding was similar to squats since they both made your legs hurt):
Yes they both hurt, but so do burning your hand and burying your bulldog. The differences are actually quite significant.

The trouble with cyclists is that their training establishment keeps reinforcing the silly bullshit that all recreational athletes want to believe: at some point, all serious athletes go outside their sport-specific work to improve, and recreational athletes just want to play their sport and wear the clothes.

Milk is quite literally better than steroids for a novice lifter to grow on, and no supplement produces the same effect.
It is because over thirty years of direct observation has demonstrated to me that when trainees drink one gallon of milk added to their regular diet and train in a progressive linear fashion, they gain significant muscular bodyweight, and those that do not drink their milk, even in the presence of progressive linear training, fail to do this. They also fail to continue progressive linear training for the same length of time, because this is facilitated by the steady weight gain. I understand that you're asking me if I have controlled for other factors such as failure to do the program correctly, and the answer is yes, of course I have, because I am not a complete idiot. Those that will not do the program are not being considered when I make these remarks, because that would be too ****ing obvious a hole in my analysis. The difference in the milk drinkers is that THEY GET BIGGER THAN THE ONES WHO WON'T DRINK THE ****ING MILK. Please tell me that you understand this now.
Soy milk is essentially Coffee-Mate laced with estrogen, and is best left to vegans and other socialist vegetarian types that can't bring themselves to eat the completely natural-for-humans flesh of our friends the Animals but who have no trouble with slaughtering trillions of our other friends the Plants and processing -- in gigantic factories run by multinational corporations with shareholders that eat meat themselves -- very selectively chosen components of their poor little bodies into gooey shit that humans have never had an opportunity to adapt to digesting. Why, eating such material, with its high levels of isoflavones, touted by gynecologists as tantamount to Estrogen Replacement Therapy (ERT), will make you grow boobs, and this will screw up the clean lines of this fine young man's Under Armor. I recommend against it.
There is no substitute for milk. Sorry.
CrossFit has the potential to change the popular cultural perception of what exercise actually means over the next decade, and I will watch with delight as selectorized leg machines are melted down into more useful items like re-bar and manhole covers.
My own opinion of Greg [Glassman] is that he has done more to legitimize actual training in the minds of the public than any other person since Arthur Jones destroyed it in the mid-70s.
But nobody lives in Canada. It's a frozen wasteland with an inefficient postal system, probably suffering from a shortage of sled dogs.
Pierre, if you are eating 5500 calories a day, then I am a female kangaroo with a Sonic Drive-In franchise and a heroin habit.
The only legitimate use for a glove is to cover an injury... A desire to prevent callus formation (possibly so as to not snag one's pantyhose) does not constitute a legitimate use.
Rip: "Leg Pressing is masturbation."
Tuesday: "Oh, come on. Masturbation isn't that bad."

Rip: "Oh, I didn't say it was bad. But at least when I masturbate, I am not under the impression that I'm making anybody else cum but me."

On steroids:
There are no shortcuts. The fact that a shortcut is important to you means that you are a pussy.

...and since we all want big chesticles, we have to put some pec in it, ok? Chesticles are why we bench press, afterall
In response to a guy complaining that his leg curl weight hasn't increased since he started dead lifting:
"That's like bitching about masturbation not being fun anymore since you started dating a porn star"

On the possibility of a failure to deadlift resulting in stroke:
Deadlifts that are too heavy to pull generally don't take very long; the bar just kinda lays there. So if trying to move immovable objects was dangerous from the standpoint of stroke, the history of the human race would be littered with stupid people's corpses.

Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general.
On not calling "The Press", "The Shoulder Press:"
We just call it the press, because how could you press without the shoulders? You can leg press... but that's gay.

On adding bike riding and leg extensions to the program:
The program in [Starting Strength] is not designed to be supplemented with anything. Neither of you -- old guy or young kid -- are in a position to recover optimally, as would be a 21 year-old genetic freak. Just stick with the program and let it work for you unsullied by the trappings of muscle magazine silliness or a desire to gild the lily. If you want to ride your bikes, don't be gone too long. In fact, be back before supper.

On drinking not 1, but 2 gallons of milk/day:
But you would be shitting primarily cheese. Are you ready for this?

A Rip Anecdote:
My favorite happens to be the tale on supplementary equipment. A man insisted on wearing straps for exercises he probably could have gotten away without having worn them. Rip, in classic Rip fashion, decided to start wearing straps to do all sorts of things, including opening doors and going to the bathroom (he would wear one on his "holding" hand, gotta have wrist support for that) until the guy stopped wearing straps completely.

But then again, those who argue against squatting and deadlifting on the same day may just be pussies.
Now I also know that you're supposed to 'listen to your body', but my brain says 'don't be a pussy, and just lift the ****ing weights', and that's just what I do.
On a respectable number of pull-ups:
Well, I can do 16, and I'm 51 and I weigh 210. So you have to beat me or you're a pussy. And if you do beat me, you're probably using drugs.

On bending the arms in the deadlift:
Bent elbows just absolutely suck.

I didn't lock that last [bench press] out in a safe position over my fairly sturdy sternum, here. I came up off the bench and put that thing right over the most valuable structures that I possess; teeth, eyeballs... all precious voice... [Rip then looks off camera at someone and shakes his head.] I'm 51, they aren't as valuable anymore as they used to be.
Newb: Got any good ab exercises?
Rip: Got any better questions?

Cindy [Crossfit WOD] is a vicious wretched bitch.
It would depend on your recovery ability, i.e. how old you are, how much you eat, how well you sleep, and how big your balls are. Some guys can recover from lots more work than other guys, so this just depends on you.
The only time LSD (long slow distance) is necessary is if your going to compete in a sport that requires it. It is far inferior to CrossFit-type metcon for producing an increase in VO2 max, it interferes with power and strength production, it can be quite catabolic and immune-suppressive in high doses, it destroys muscle mass, and the people that do it usually wear silly clothes. Read the stuff on the CrossFit website regarding this, and you will learn many good, important things.
Never ask a question that you may not be prepared to have answered.
If you want to look like some Abercrombie model, then find another program and enjoy your nice, easy training style. If you are serious about adding muscle to your frame, then get under the damn bar and make it happen.
Go home and tell Mom that you're a man now.
The deadlift is more functional in that it’s very hard to imagine a more useful application of strength than picking heavy shit up off the ground.
…we have not spent the last 65 million or so years finely honing our physiology to watch Oprah. Like it or not, we are the product of a very long process of adaptation to a harsh physical existence, and the past couple centuries of comparative ease and plenty are not enough time to change our genome. We humans are at our best when our existence mirrors, or at least simulates, the one we are still genetically adapted to live. And that is the purpose of exercise.
Accumulating injuries are the price we pay for the thrill of not having sat around on our asses.
[Bill] Starr was damned strong, primarily because he worked as hard as any human being ever has. He was not a genetic freak, but his balls were huge, and he applied himself to his training like few people have ever done.
There are no shortcuts. The fact that a shortcut is important to you means that you are a pussy. Let me be clear here: if you'd rather take steroids than do your squats heavy and drink enough milk, then you are a ****ing Pussy. I have no time or patience for ****ing Pussies. Please tell everyone you know that I said this.
The Olympic Snatch is gymnastics with a bar.
On a missed squat:
Yes, 350 was pretty good. Now, why do you think you missed 360, besides the fact that it was so ****ing heavy?

on U2:
I don't like Bono. He needs to train more.

A common problem in analysis is the confusion of correlation with causation. Baker illustrates this nicely for us. Lots of people, all of whom are crazy as hell, train early in the morning without problems. Coffee becomes more important than testosterone in this situation.
I recommend against a wooden squat rack, for much the same reason that I recommend against a wooden car.
As for the definitions of butt wink and butt-wink Nazi, the first is obscene and scatological, and the second is not discussable due to European Union restrictions.
We never consciously squeeze our asscheeks in the weight room. It's not a valuable biomechanical cue, and it might get misinterpreted by the guys on the next platform.
...the rather inescapable conclusion that the older men get, the more like older women we become, hormonally speaking.
It is important to always stay within your comfort zone. This prevents having to subject oneself to the inconvenience of learning something new and potentially useful.
If you insist on wearing gloves, make sure they match your purse.
Critiqueing a power clean:
...it shows a problem known as a Donkey Kick. As the jump occurs, the heels come up in the back and then stomp back down into place. This is a terrible waste of time and energy, and contributes nothing to making the bar go up. Stop doing this immediately or I will have you killed.

...bodybuilding is men on a stage in their underwear wearing brown paint showing other men their muscles. It is training for appearance only, and at the contest level requires a degree of vanity, narcissism, and self-absorption that I find distasteful and odd.
I like musicianship, and it's quite lacking in most modern popular music. You're always safe with old Chicago, the Allman Brothers, Gov't Mule, or Tower of Power.
You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
The full squat is a perfectly natural position for the leg to occupy. That's why there's a joint in the middle of it, and why humans have been occupying this position, both unloaded and loaded, for millions of years. Much longer, in fact, than quasi-intellectual morons have been telling us that it's "bad" for the knees.
Guy 1: I was just wondering, are all the copies of [Starting Strength] missing pages 206-207, or is it just my copy?
Rip: Page numbers 206-207 were offensive to us, for numerological reasons we'd not care to discuss, so we omitted them and indexed around them. No material is missing, just the 2 most horrible, sickening, disgusting, revolting, baby-killing, maggot-infested, sorry, rotten, substandard numbers in all of mathematics. And good riddance, I say. **** 206 and 207, both of them.

Guy 2: Thank God someone has taken a stand on this.

Rip: Courage will always be the watchword of The Aasgaard Company.

If lifting heavy weights for partial [squats] were of any benefit for sports, Gold's Gym would be fielding the majority of the 2008 Olympic team.
Shitting yourself when you deadlift was omitted from [Starting Strength]. The best way to avoid this is to not deadlift when you need to shit, and vice versa. Planning is the key here.
When asked if masturbation or sex hinders strength:
Yes, it does. Never do either. Ever. Not if you want to be strong like bull.

An anecdote:
I was shooting photos for CrossFit Central's Fittest Games Challenge #2, which was a CrossFit Total event. (both links wfs) Rip was judging the event, of course. The squat and press were done in a rack facing towards the back of the venue, and I'd set up a remote camera in front of the platform so that I could shoot pictures from that position without danger of moving or disturbing someone (really wasn't an issue in the end, but... anyway...).

So, they decide to remove the rack and turn the lifter around for the deadlift. I quickly move to start relocating my remote camera, so that I can get it ready before the event starts - I try to be as unobtrusive as possible at these sorts of things, so I was just trying to hurry, etc... Well, one of the folks with CrossFit Central (who was trying to be helpful) says to Coach "Hang on a minute, Dave has to move his camera...". Oh, how I cringed at those words

Coach looks over and says "Has to move a camera? You GOD DAMNED paparazzi, you killed Princess Diana! You're the reason she's dead!"

Rip: You need to drink one gallon of full fat milk everyday. It's almost mandatory.
Somebody from audience: I'm lactose intolerant, could I substitute yogurt for milk?

Rip: Gallon of yogurt.

It is not necessary to bump the shins with the bar, or dig a ditch in the shins on the way up. Good control of the weight is necessary to avoid this, and it should be avoided or sores get established on the shins that will be a problem for a long time - every time the trainee deadlifts he will break the sore open and make a big mess on his socks or worse, the bar.
I strongly advise against intentionally farting whilst moving heavy weights. Sometimes -- especially under those circumstances -- farts have a solid center.
Most of the problems with the bodies and minds of the folks occupying the current culture involve an unwillingness to do anything hard, or anything that they'd rather not do. I applaud your resolve, and I welcome you to the community of people who have decided that EASY will no longer suffice.
If you are so inflamed that you can't train, and ibuprofen and fish oil help with inflammation, maybe you'd better take the ****ing ibuprofen and fish oil.
There is never an absolute answer to everything, except of course that you have to do your squats.
JLascek: I just wanted to throw in the fact that you cannot "pull yourself down" in any kind of squat unless you are moving faster than gravity will allow, and this is never the case in the presence of a significant load.
TPrewittMD: Actually, you can't "pull yourself down" unless your feet are literally fixed to the floor. Simply dropping the bar to the floor is faster than any squat and is the effect of gravity.

Tuesday: I wonder why CrossFitters haven't used this fact to improve their Fran time by fixing themselves to the floor.

Rip: Because it slows down the pullups, you fool.

On Andy Bolton's 1008 deadlift: "The video has been pulled from youtube (I guess because Andy's strength was obscene)."
A 2 pound weight gain doesn't count, since it is the size of an average turd.
But a hot gym is where most of us have trained before. Learn to deal with it: more water, more minerals, bigger balls..
In response to someone who hit himself in the testicles when deadlifting: "You either have very short arms or very long nuts."

[Vitamin S]

p,

i am not sure if cytomel increases or decreases heart rate, i would assume increases since it speeds metabolism and makes you sweat etc, but i smoke weed occasionaly and i know weed relaxes me and has a calming effect, but on the internet it said weed increases heart rate was wondering if there would be any interactions with taking t3 with weed. i only smoke here and there but wanted to be safe, i was told it was no big deal.

also since its not a stimulant can i take like a fat burner with it for an etra kick before morning cardio, and is it allwed to have ephedrine in the formula?
thx

[Praetorian]

p,

i am not sure if cytomel increases or decreases heart rate, i would assume increases since it speeds metabolism and makes you sweat etc, but i smoke weed occasionaly and i know weed relaxes me and has a calming effect, but on the internet it said weed increases heart rate was wondering if there would be any interactions with taking t3 with weed. i only smoke here and there but wanted to be safe, i was told it was no big deal.

also since its not a stimulant can i take like a fat burner with it for an etra kick before morning cardio, and is it allwed to have ephedrine in the formula?
thx

Weed can increase heart rate not because it is a stimulant but because it lowers blood pressure...but i dont see any major complications using T3 concurrently. I would avoid ephedrine and just use a cup of coffee or a caffeine tab instead.
P

[O-Train]

That took a long time to read. Ripptoe is a funny guy. According to him there are a whole lot of narcissistic homosexuals around here...

[Not2Big]

P...
What kind of condiment options do I have for the Palumbo diet? Aside from herbs, seasonings, mustard and hot sauce?
Is table salt okay? I know that chicken is my friend but I'm running out of creative genius in the kitchen.
Thanks and kudos for an amazing forum!

[Praetorian]

That took a long time to read. Ripptoe is a funny guy. According to him there are a whole lot of narcissistic homosexuals around here...

LOL well he can be a bit obtuse but most comments are to the point and he pulls no punches...alot of wisdom from years of experience.
P

[Praetorian]

P...
What kind of condiment options do I have for the Palumbo diet? Aside from herbs, seasonings, mustard and hot sauce?
Is table salt okay? I know that chicken is my friend but I'm running out of creative genius in the kitchen.
Thanks and kudos for an amazing forum!

Table salt is ok but you should use Sea salt its much better for you. Otherwise you can you almost any spices or herbs. hot sauce, mustard, Dijon, mayo, Brags Soya, etc....just check the labels and make sure there is no sugar/fructose/glucose etc.
P

[klimt]

Just wondering : when taking my second dose of HGH after training on a pre comp diet, is it best to take it after my cardio or between my workout session and cardio with my shake. I usually do 20-30 minutes cardio HIT after my training session?
thanks for your help have been reading the whole thread from the very beginning and you'e such a great help for all of us. thanks to share your experience.

[Praetorian]

Just wondering : when taking my second dose of HGH after training on a pre comp diet, is it best to take it after my cardio or between my workout session and cardio with my shake. I usually do 20-30 minutes cardio HIT after my training session?
thanks for your help have been reading the whole thread from the very beginning and you'e such a great help for all of us. thanks to share your experience.

The best times to take hgh irregardless of whether you are dieting or not are in the morning with your breakfast and post workout with your shake. If you are dieting then you do NOT have a shake between workout and cardio...you do your workout...then immediately you do cardio (glycogen depleted state) then after you are finished cardio you have your shake and take the hgh. If you are having a shake between training and before cardo you are drastically slowing fat loss.
P

[klimt]

Thanks so very much P. I've been recently reading a lot about post workout nutrition especially some things by layne Norton that i amdire a lot. he was discussion fasted cardio for fat loss and thermogenesis and evidence have been found that actually haing food before cardio was actually inceasing thermogenesis because the body has also to deal with digestion as well. This is what got me confused.
i'll do as you say.
Any best spot to ,inject HGH post workout, i ,know there is no side-related growth So i usually go Sub Q in the stomac... what's your opinion?

Thanks again for your precious help !

[Praetorian]

Thanks so very much P. I've been recently reading a lot about post workout nutrition especially some things by layne Norton that i amdire a lot. he was discussion fasted cardio for fat loss and thermogenesis and evidence have been found that actually haing food before cardio was actually inceasing thermogenesis because the body has also to deal with digestion as well. This is what got me confused.
i'll do as you say.
Any best spot to ,inject HGH post workout, i ,know there is no side-related growth So i usually go Sub Q in the stomac... what's your opinion?

Thanks again for your precious help !

Generally IM injections are better because they are more efficiently absorbed...however subq in the stomach area is fine.

P

[japh]

I need your advice for my girlfriend please. She has just recently began her weightloss journey. She is 22 .....5'8" and 165 pounds is my best guess. She won't step on a scale just yet.


Diet will be 1500 calories to start

100 carbs

150 protein

50 fat


Shes a gamer so cardio has started at a half hour a day moderate intensity 5 days a week but will eventually go as high as 2hrs a day at a moderate intensity with a goal of burning the days intake of calories. This will be 1500 calories burned in 2hrs split into 2 separate 1 hr sessions of 750 calories each approximately. This will be ramped up depending on fat loss each week. I would like to average 2lbs a week over a span of 20 weeks.



***I know you prefer the palumbo diet but do these macro's seem acceptable to you otherwise? If they are, should they ever be adjusted (lowered by 250 cal) or should cardio just slowly be increased to stay on target?****

I would like to switch her over to palumbo at approximately the 3 month mark. I don't want to take away carbs for that long and she likes them of course.

******Is burning the same amount of calories in cardio as are ingested over the course of the day over the top in your opinion? Would that be unhealthy even with proper nutrition?******

**Is a 2 lb a week goal on average acceptable?***

**What would be the protocol for clen spread over this period of time in your opinion?***

**What would be the protocol for t3 spread over this period of time in your opinion?**


I do appreciate your advice. You're the only person I feel comfortable asking advice with regards to my grlfriend.

[Shaun73]

P i usually take my HGH in the morning at 6iu when i wake up. I eat breakfast within this hour. My breakfast consists oatmeal, egg whites, and 10oz pure grapefruit juice. I was told that eating lots of carbs after you take HGH is a bad idea because HGH makes you insulin resistant.

I would like to know your thoughts on this.

Thanks

[Praetorian]

I need your advice for my girlfriend please. She has just recently began her weightloss journey. She is 22 .....5'8" and 165 pounds is my best guess. She won't step on a scale just yet.


Diet will be 1500 calories to start

100 carbs

150 protein

50 fat

***For 165lb women seems a bit low...id up protein to 175-180g


Shes a gamer so cardio has started at a half hour a day moderate intensity 5 days a week but will eventually go as high as 2hrs a day at a moderate intensity with a goal of burning the days intake of calories. This will be 1500 calories burned in 2hrs split into 2 separate 1 hr sessions of 750 calories each approximately. This will be ramped up depending on fat loss each week. I would like to average 2lbs a week over a span of 20 weeks.

***30min per day is fine to start...increase as per fat loss...2lbs per week for a woman is high...1lb is more consistent with most females



I know you prefer the palumbo diet
***we use different diets depending on the client...the keto diet is just one tool



but do these macro's seem acceptable to you otherwise? If they are, should they ever be adjusted (lowered by 250 cal) or should cardio just slowly be increased to stay on target?****

***diet is the last thing to adjust

I would like to switch her over to palumbo at approximately the 3 month mark. I don't want to take away carbs for that long and she likes them of course.

***depends on progress...and how she reacts

******Is burning the same amount of calories in cardio as are ingested over the course of the day over the top in your opinion? Would that be unhealthy even with proper nutrition?******

i dont worry about calories in or calories out..it is impossible to be very accurate doing this...i just go by fat loss over the course of the week



Is a 2 lb a week goal on average acceptable?***

***a bit high...more likely 1lb

**What would be the protocol for clen spread over this period of time in your opinion?***

***start st 20mcg twice daily and raise by 20mcg every two weeks until you hit 80mcg daily then leave it there until the diet is over...then ramp down

**What would be the protocol for t3 spread over this period of time in your opinion?**

***start at 25mcg daily and raise by 12.5mcg every two weeks until you hit 50mcg daily...leave it there until finished the diet then ramp down


I do appreciate your advice. You're the only person I feel comfortable asking advice with regards to my grlfriend.



P

[Praetorian]

P i usually take my HGH in the morning at 6iu when i wake up. I eat breakfast within this hour. My breakfast consists oatmeal, egg whites, and 10oz pure grapefruit juice. I was told that eating lots of carbs after you take HGH is a bad idea because HGH makes you insulin resistant.

I would like to know your thoughts on this.




Thanks


With breakfast is fine....including carbs. What you were told has been taken out of context and really makes little sense.
P
,,,

[japh]

Thank-you very much for your time P.

I feel responsible for her and don't want to make any mistakes.

Grateful for your help :)

Jonathan

[massabsamurai]

P any insight on this:

"this one is a Milos Sarcev Supplement Protocol that i have had great success with in the offseason... It was published in the dec. 2006 issue of flex magazine. Gain 10 pounds in 1 month (he says it can actually be upwards of 20lbs for beginners, 15 for intermediates, and 10 for advanced).

Pre workout shake
3-5g creatine
3-10g glutamine
15-20g essential amino acids
15g BCAA's
30-50g vitagro
1tsp electrolyte

During workout ( finish this 3/4 way through your workout )
3-5g creatine
3-10g glutamine
15-20g essential amino acids
15g BCAA's
50g vitagro
1tsp electrolyte drink powder

Post workout
3-5g creatine
3-10g glutamine
40-50g whey protein isolate or hydrolysates
50-75g vitagro
1tsp electrolyte drink powder

Make sure to start off at the lower end of the aminos and creatine and up them every couple of days... it may be to much for your body to take in if your not used to it."

Milos words from the article:

"You're playing with the potency of the strongest anabolic hormone--insulin," Sarcev says. "Using Vitargo [a] is going to spike insulin; it creates hyperinsulin levels in the body. I say that insulin is your best friend, not your worst enemy--if you know how to use it to your advantage.

"Blood flow [and] increases during training," Sarcev continues. "We have about five liters of blood circulating normally each minute. During training, we have about 25 liters of blood circulating per minute [due]. That's an increase of five times. While resting, approximately 20% of those five liters goes to muscle tissue, but when training, about 80% of the 25 liters goes into muscle tissue. Nutrient uptake is not just enhanced five times as much, but 20 times as much.

"So, if you have all the essential amino acids and glucose available, and insulin in the blood, the blood is 20 times more effective in delivering all these nutrients into the trained muscle fibers. With the presence of creatine, a miracle can happen, and a miracle always does happen with all the athletes I train."

SIMPLE AND EFFECTIVE For those of you who wonder how three drinks a day along with your current diet are going to help you pack on 10 pounds of muscle in four weeks, think of it this way: you're adding considerable amounts of protein and carbohydrates to an already established diet--and that's without altering your food intake.

"Some guys don't like carbohydrates and would much rather eat fats," Sarcev says. "Some guys would much rather eat carbohydrates and don't like fats. I say whatever source you choose, that's fine, as long as you know how many calories you're spending during the day to maintain your current size."

That maintenance level, combined with the extra shake, will push your intake over the growth threshold. "You're going to have a higher energy intake than expenditure, but you're also going to make sure that the carbohydrates and protein you're ingesting will be stored in your muscle fibers rather than possibly stored as bodyfat," Sarcev says. "Insulin during and immediately after the workout in the presence of amino acids, along with creatine and glutamine, is going to shove nutrients only into your muscle fibers, and they won't convert to fat."


Thank you

[natenator]

^^ LOL

[Praetorian]

P any insight on this:

"this one is a Milos Sarcev Supplement Protocol that i have had great success with in the offseason... It was published in the dec. 2006 issue of flex magazine. Gain 10 pounds in 1 month (he says it can actually be upwards of 20lbs for beginners, 15 for intermediates, and 10 for advanced).

Pre workout shake
3-5g creatine
3-10g glutamine
15-20g essential amino acids
15g BCAA's
30-50g vitagro
1tsp electrolyte

During workout ( finish this 3/4 way through your workout )
3-5g creatine
3-10g glutamine
15-20g essential amino acids
15g BCAA's
50g vitagro
1tsp electrolyte drink powder

Post workout
3-5g creatine
3-10g glutamine
40-50g whey protein isolate or hydrolysates
50-75g vitagro
1tsp electrolyte drink powder

Make sure to start off at the lower end of the aminos and creatine and up them every couple of days... it may be to much for your body to take in if your not used to it."

Milos words from the article:

"You're playing with the potency of the strongest anabolic hormone--insulin," Sarcev says. "Using Vitargo [a] is going to spike insulin; it creates hyperinsulin levels in the body. I say that insulin is your best friend, not your worst enemy--if you know how to use it to your advantage.

"Blood flow [and] increases during training," Sarcev continues. "We have about five liters of blood circulating normally each minute. During training, we have about 25 liters of blood circulating per minute [due]. That's an increase of five times. While resting, approximately 20% of those five liters goes to muscle tissue, but when training, about 80% of the 25 liters goes into muscle tissue. Nutrient uptake is not just enhanced five times as much, but 20 times as much.

"So, if you have all the essential amino acids and glucose available, and insulin in the blood, the blood is 20 times more effective in delivering all these nutrients into the trained muscle fibers. With the presence of creatine, a miracle can happen, and a miracle always does happen with all the athletes I train."

SIMPLE AND EFFECTIVE For those of you who wonder how three drinks a day along with your current diet are going to help you pack on 10 pounds of muscle in four weeks, think of it this way: you're adding considerable amounts of protein and carbohydrates to an already established diet--and that's without altering your food intake.

"Some guys don't like carbohydrates and would much rather eat fats," Sarcev says. "Some guys would much rather eat carbohydrates and don't like fats. I say whatever source you choose, that's fine, as long as you know how many calories you're spending during the day to maintain your current size."

That maintenance level, combined with the extra shake, will push your intake over the growth threshold. "You're going to have a higher energy intake than expenditure, but you're also going to make sure that the carbohydrates and protein you're ingesting will be stored in your muscle fibers rather than possibly stored as bodyfat," Sarcev says. "Insulin during and immediately after the workout in the presence of amino acids, along with creatine and glutamine, is going to shove nutrients only into your muscle fibers, and they won't convert to fat."


Thank you


When you say you have had great success with this in the offseason...you need to put that into context:
1. you have been training consistently for a few years
2. you kept your diet exactly the same before and during this protocol
3. you did not use any aas before as well as during this protocol or your use was identical before and during
3. you did not change your training before or during the protocol use
4. you assume no placebo effect which is highly doubtful
5. define "great success"

You can get a great anabolic effect by using a pre-workout shake with a carb source such as waxy maize and protein isolate...as well as a post workout shake with the same with the addition of creatine. The glutamine is unnecessary as well as the BCAA since you are already getting over 10g with the isolate. Creatine you should take in the morning and with your post workout shake. I dont see the need for the intra workout drink...why so many carbs? is the person not eating carbs thru the day? thats over kill...not to mention the blood as he explains wont be going to the muscle if you are ingesting food...some will be redirected for digestion.
IMO that is alot of supplements and will cost you a fortune...as for the supposed gains...good luck...someone just starting creatine can gain 10lbs...that has nothing to do with new muscle. Beginners also gain quickly due to the bodies adaptive motor response to training...again this is not due to supplementation. If you want to actually see the true response to this protocol run a double blind placebo test on advanced bodybuilders..I am sure the results would not be even close to those numbers.
P

PS. i will make it even easier...drink a gallon of milk daily along with your meals, train like a demon, get adequate rest...youll grow like a weed.

[natenator]

When you say you have had great success with this in the offseason...you need to put that into context:
1. you have been training consistently for a few years
2. you kept your diet exactly the same before and during this protocol
3. you did not use any aas before as well as during this protocol or your use was identical before and during
3. you did not change your training before or during the protocol use
4. you assume no placebo effect which is highly doubtful
5. define "great success"

You can get a great anabolic effect by using a pre-workout shake with a carb source such as waxy maize and protein isolate...as well as a post workout shake with the same with the addition of creatine. The glutamine is unnecessary as well as the BCAA since you are already getting over 10g with the isolate. Creatine you should take in the morning and with your post workout shake. I dont see the need for the intra workout drink...why so many carbs? is the person not eating carbs thru the day? thats over kill...not to mention the blood as he explains wont be going to the muscle if you are ingesting food...some will be redirected for digestion.
IMO that is alot of supplements and will cost you a fortune...as for the supposed gains...good luck...someone just starting creatine can gain 10lbs...that has nothing to do with new muscle. Beginners also gain quickly due to the bodies adaptive motor response to training...again this is not due to supplementation. If you want to actually see the true response to this protocol run a double blind placebo test on advanced bodybuilders..I am sure the results would not be even close to those numbers.
P

PS. i will make it even easier...drink a gallon of milk daily along with your meals, train like a demon, get adequate rest...youll grow like a weed.
But NOT 10lbs in a week as the article suggests. 10lbs in a year even while enhanced is an AWESOME year growth wise

[Vitamin S]

p,

very well said, i mean i including others always for the most part wnat a short cut its the nature of the sport who doesn't wanna grow over night. but i like how u always keep it simple and thats the bottom line. i mean lets go back 20 plus years to arnolds days. how many bodies look like that without the exception of the people who are on the pro circuit.

with soo many new supplements and different methods in last 20 years it goes to show u train hard, eat big, sleep big u will grow everything else is a placebo etc, but even then if its a placebo as long as it gets u moving and training i guess thats not a bad thing.

[powerrack]

Do you ever believe in ramping doses up on cycle? Or always a constant dose throughout?

Say someone took 3-4 months off gear and were going to go on a test/eq (or deca or whatever) cycle, biggest dose would be 1000mg test 800mg anabolic.

If you haven't pumped anything in your systme for a while, would it be possible to grow on half the dose for a few weeks, then boost it up a quarter, then so on until hitting a peak?

I have always just done it the same dose all the way through, but did some reading around and this protocol makes sense on paper, but not sure if it works in the real world.

[Praetorian]

Do you ever believe in ramping doses up on cycle? Or always a constant dose throughout?

Say someone took 3-4 months off gear and were going to go on a test/eq (or deca or whatever) cycle, biggest dose would be 1000mg test 800mg anabolic.

If you haven't pumped anything in your systme for a while, would it be possible to grow on half the dose for a few weeks, then boost it up a quarter, then so on until hitting a peak?

I have always just done it the same dose all the way through, but did some reading around and this protocol makes sense on paper, but not sure if it works in the real world.

Well look at it this way...lets say the cycle is 12 weeks long...if you run 1800mg weekly you grow optimally lets say a rate of 100%...an arbitrary number....then lets say the cycle you propose the first 6 weeks you run 900mg weekly....and you grow less optimally lets say 50% rate...the you increase the dosage to 1800mg weekly and finish the last 6 weeks of the cycle at 100%. If you look at the big picture....what would you rather have:
1. 12 weeks at 100% growth rate
2. 12 weeks at a 75% growth rate (6 weeks at 50% growth rate + 6 weeks at 100% growth rate)

This is a simplified example that doesnt take other issue into account such as receptor saturation etc but you get the idea.
P

[powerrack]

Well look at it this way...lets say the cycle is 12 weeks long...if you run 1800mg weekly you grow optimally lets say a rate of 100%...an arbitrary number....then lets say the cycle you propose the first 6 weeks you run 900mg weekly....and you grow less optimally lets say 50% rate...the you increase the dosage to 1800mg weekly and finish the last 6 weeks of the cycle at 100%. If you look at the big picture....what would you rather have:
1. 12 weeks at 100% growth rate
2. 12 weeks at a 75% growth rate (6 weeks at 50% growth rate + 6 weeks at 100% growth rate)

This is a simplified example that doesnt take other issue into account such as receptor saturation etc but you get the idea.
P

Thanks for clearing that up. That's what I thought too, there's a guy well known on a few of the big forums that posts up the taper cycles, so it got me second guessing things. The logic made sense, but I can see in reality it might not work too well.

[Not2Big]

P,
I know that Palumbo recommends keeping the HR under 130 bpm when doing cardio. If in ketosis, would it matter what your heart rate was, seeing as you're burning fat all day long anyway?
The reason I ask.. For me to hit even 60% of my target HR (115 bpm), I have to jack the treadmill up to about 10% with a speed of about 3.6 mph. It feels like I'm busting my ass and sweating up a storm. Just wondering if this intensity is required and/or would a leisurely walk suffice? I can understand that the greater intensities would burn more calories.

[Praetorian]

P,
I know that Palumbo recommends keeping the HR under 130 bpm when doing cardio. If in ketosis, would it matter what your heart rate was, seeing as you're burning fat all day long anyway?
The reason I ask.. For me to hit even 60% of my target HR (115 bpm), I have to jack the treadmill up to about 10% with a speed of about 3.6 mph. It feels like I'm busting my ass and sweating up a storm. Just wondering if this intensity is required and/or would a leisurely walk suffice? I can understand that the greater intensities would burn more calories.

It does matter because as your heart rate goes over a certain point the body can no longer utilize ketone bodies for fuel....they become too slow as oxygen is now a part of the mix...the body thus has to resort to glucose as a fuel....and thus will start manufacturing glucose (via gluconeogenesis) from readily available amino acids (muscle tissue). All you need to do is a brisk walk...dont worry about your heart rate....some people have great cardio conditioning so the 130bpm is really tough to get to.
P

[cog]

Tren seems to accentuate the effects of caffeine in my body Prae,why is this so?

[Praetorian]

Tren seems to accentuate the effects of caffeine in my body Prae,why is this so?

Never heard of that...what evidence do you have besides feeling?
P

[cog]

One cup feels like three,or more.Get really hyper,BP seems to rise,I would usually switch to decaffeinated.I have seen others recommend to avoid any stimulants while using Tren.

[Praetorian]

One cup feels like three,or more.Get really hyper,BP seems to rise,I would usually switch to decaffeinated.I have seen others recommend to avoid any stimulants while using Tren.

Strange I have never experienced that myself or with any of my clients...i dont see any correlation between the two.
P

[CallmeB]

Pra, you are truly inspirational. An endless pit of knowledge
I have to say that you are very patient! I can not believe the amount of times you have had to repeat yourself this thread!
After reading all 270 pages, You have convinced me to switch from a low carb diet..and give Keto a shot.
Few quick questions. Would I be able to use dry curd cottage cheese on this diet? 22g Pro 4g Carb 0.5g Fat per 1/2cup? ( im pretty sure those were the stats )
Also I noticed in another post you said cream is ok? does that mean a morning coffee with cream and stevia is ok?
And lastly, you mentioned that this comming year you were going to change things a little with your routine and with your clients.. by adding 10min HIT cardio a few times a week. would you then be doing say 30min low intensity on the tredmill after on those days? ( i ask because I love the feeling of HIT cardio.. but as outlined numerous times its a no no on a keto diet )

Much Appreciated

B

[Praetorian]

Pra, you are truly inspirational. An endless pit of knowledge
I have to say that you are very patient! I can not believe the amount of times you have had to repeat yourself this thread!
After reading all 270 pages, You have convinced me to switch from a low carb diet..and give Keto a shot.
Few quick questions. Would I be able to use dry curd cottage cheese on this diet? 22g Pro 4g Carb 0.5g Fat per 1/2cup? ( im pretty sure those were the stats )
Also I noticed in another post you said cream is ok? does that mean a morning coffee with cream and stevia is ok?
And lastly, you mentioned that this comming year you were going to change things a little with your routine and with your clients.. by adding 10min HIT cardio a few times a week. would you then be doing say 30min low intensity on the tredmill after on those days? ( i ask because I love the feeling of HIT cardio.. but as outlined numerous times its a no no on a keto diet )

Much Appreciated

B

Thanks B...

Dairy has too many carbs for keto so better not to use cottage cheese. Cream in coffee is ok as long as its whole cream and just a table spoon...stevia is fine.
The 10min HIT cardio was for offseason only....to keep appetite up...regular cardio while dieting is not HIT or you will burn muscle.
P

[CallmeB]

P
Just wondering why the 2g of carbs in the dry curd cottage cheese would be a no no, butthe the few grams of carbs in shakes are alright. ( i think a post in another thread said he was consuming 14g of carbs in his shake througout the day ) Are they different kind of carbs? Or is it just that dairy has no place in dieting period?

[Shaun73]

P thanks for answering my previous question. I have another qeustion on the same subject of HGH

When using HGH for long term approx 1-2 year in duration, i was told its a good idea to take 1 day off the gh every week, so your body still produces its own HGH. This is supposed to make it easier to recover when you stop.
Is this true? is it a good idea?

[Praetorian]

P thanks for answering my previous question. I have another qeustion on the same subject of HGH

When using HGH for long term approx 1-2 year in duration, i was told its a good idea to take 1 day off the gh every week, so your body still produces its own HGH. This is supposed to make it easier to recover when you stop.
Is this true? is it a good idea?

Unfortunately you have been misinformed. The average user who runs GH will take it once or twice....maybe three times daily on the high end. Taking exogenous GH does produce a negative feedback loop in the body halting any endogenous gh from being secreted. However GH is pulsatile and is secreted multiple times daily...more than 2-3 times so you may stop a pulse or two of natural gh by injecting exogenous gh but you wont stop all gh or create a long enough negative feedback loop to cause endogenous GH secretion to stop. After injecting GH it is only active in the body for a very short time...its not like testosterone which remains in the blood for a long period...ie days, weeks.
So taking a day or two off will not make a difference...the only difference you may see is less positive results.
P

[#8]

Does GH powder have a taste? Is there any taste one should expect, or at least not expect when drinking a small amount of it to verify its potency / reliability?

(ie. sweet, bitter, sour, no taste at all, etc.)

[Praetorian]

Does GH powder have a taste? Is there any taste one should expect, or at least not expect when drinking a small amount of it to verify its potency / reliability?

(ie. sweet, bitter, sour, no taste at all, etc.)

Never tasted it...not a valid test anyways.
P

[#8]

Fair enough

[Hugheser]

Hey P,

Was wondering about stopping injectables and orals before a show.

I did a cycle of Sustanon for 10 weeks finishing in August. I held a ton of water because after 3 weeks I began PCT and looked really tight by the time I was done the protocol.

The reason I tell you this is, I do seem to hold a lot of water on aa's as I am sure a lot of people do. Something you oviously don't need come show time.

1. How long before the show would you stop the Prop?
2. If as much as a week before, would you start the pct and run it into the show?
3. Would you run orals like Winny or Anavar right to the day?

What I thought was the best idea was to stop the prop a week out run the winny to the day and start pct, 2 days later.

Let me know if that is a bone head schedule please.

Thanks

Hugheser

[Praetorian]

Hey P,

Was wondering about stopping injectables and orals before a show.

I did a cycle of Sustanon for 10 weeks finishing in August. I held a ton of water because after 3 weeks I began PCT and looked really tight by the time I was done the protocol.

The reason I tell you this is, I do seem to hold a lot of water on aa's as I am sure a lot of people do. Something you oviously don't need come show time.

1. How long before the show would you stop the Prop?
2. If as much as a week before, would you start the pct and run it into the show?
3. Would you run orals like Winny or Anavar right to the day?

What I thought was the best idea was to stop the prop a week out run the winny to the day and start pct, 2 days later.

Let me know if that is a bone head schedule please.

Thanks

Hugheser



Well not being mean or anything but you asked the question so yes it is a bonehead schedule. ;o)
One thing you never do is stop aas or clen/T3 etc before a show...thats asking for big trouble...rebound etc. Starting PCT is only going to make things worse. What you need to do is switch to a long ester test such as enanthate and run an AI such as aromasin through the contest prep. This will eliminate any water issues as well as make dropping some stubborn fat easier. Also you say you retain alot of water...in 99% of cases that I have been told this it isnt true...what you perceive as water is actually fat...you just arent lean enough. Oral such as winny or var or halo would be continued including the day of the show.
P

[Hugheser]

Well not being mean or anything but you asked the question so yes it is a bonehead schedule. ;o)
One thing you never do is stop aas or clen/T3 etc before a show...thats asking for big trouble...rebound etc. Starting PCT is only going to make things worse. What you need to do is switch to a long ester test such as enanthate and run an AI such as aromasin through the contest prep. This will eliminate any water issues as well as make dropping some stubborn fat easier. Also you say you retain alot of water...in 99% of cases that I have been told this it isnt true...what you perceive as water is actually fat...you just arent lean enough. Oral such as winny or var or halo would be continued including the day of the show.
P


Okay, sounds good. Thanks for clearing that up.

Too much mixed info out there. You tell it straight up. Gives me great confidence.

Thanks again.

- Hugheser

[fathead]

what exercises do you prescribe for ab work?

do you believe in doing any exercises such as side bends or twisting type movements or will these thicken up the mid section?

[Praetorian]

what exercises do you prescribe for ab work?

do you believe in doing any exercises such as side bends or twisting type movements or will these thicken up the mid section?

No twisting or side bends...crunches, crunches with a rope(standing or kneeling), leg raises(avoid using hip flexors as most people do), no ab machines they are useless. crunches on a stability ball, planks with a wheel.
P

[fathead]

No twisting or side bends...crunches, crunches with a rope(standing or kneeling), leg raises(avoid using hip flexors as most people do), no ab machines they are useless. crunches on a stability ball, planks with a wheel.
P

in your opinion will side bends and twisting movements thicken the waist area?

im finding my abs are getting developed moreso on my sides giving a thicker look to my waist. im not sure if this is real or an illusion or just something that comes with age... either way im not a fan

[Praetorian]

in your opinion will side bends and twisting movements thicken the waist area?

im finding my abs are getting developed moreso on my sides giving a thicker look to my waist. im not sure if this is real or an illusion or just something that comes with age... either way im not a fan

If you build up the muscle ie obliques etc then yes the waist will appear wider...higher reps with no weight probably wouldnt do that.
P

[massabsamurai]

at what point during the keto do u start cycling the pro/fat with pro/veg days and when you do tweak with the diet, what is the ideal thing you would drop (oz of meat or eggs or fats?). Thanks P.

[Praetorian]

at what point during the keto do u start cycling the pro/fat with pro/veg days and when you do tweak with the diet, what is the ideal thing you would drop (oz of meat or eggs or fats?). Thanks P.

There is no rule...it depends on the clients progress, how much time to the show, etc
P

[solectronlondon]

P,
do you believe in receptor downgrade like when gear becomes uneffective at building muscle? I have been on 250mg/week test and 200mg/week primo for 14 weeks and i have plateau in weight gain....is increasing the dosage pointless or should I just start pct? also i have increase my calories and taken aweek off every 6 weeks.

thanks again!

[Praetorian]

P,
do you believe in receptor downgrade like when gear becomes uneffective at building muscle? I have been on 250mg/week test and 200mg/week primo for 14 weeks and i have plateau in weight gain....is increasing the dosage pointless or should I just start pct? also i have increase my calories and taken aweek off every 6 weeks.

thanks again!


Receptor downgrade is a reality for everyone it is not up for discussion LOL it happens at the cellular level and not just with aas with all types of drugs. Here is an excerpt take from DP Q&A:

Steroidal receptors are found in the nucleus of cells. When stimulated, they signal the cell to increase protein synthesis and increase the amount of muscle volume. A good analogy to help you visualize what's going on is to imagine that steroidal compounds are specific "keys" that fit into various nuclear receptors (the "keyholes'). Once this steroidal molecule unlocks the receptor, protein synthesis is stimulated. What happens when high amounts of anabolic steroids are utilized for long periods of time is that the NUMBER of receptors (keyholes) diminishes because the body is preventing itself from being overstimulated, and even though you still have lot of anabolic substance present (keys), they can't "work" to maximize protein synthesis because of the lack of these receptors. When you go OFF cycle, the body doesn't know that you're now lacking anabolic hormones. It thinks there aren't enough receptors present and thus it starts to upregulate (increase) the number of steroidal receptors.

The other issue is your dosage is very low...and I am sure your actual lean muscle gains would be low as well. Since you have run the cycle for 14 weeks it is pointless to increase dosage at this time...I would suggest PCT then a off period and then a better planned cycle next time. Taking a week off every six weeks for a young BB is like tying a boat anchor to your leg...you might as well forget making any significant gains...a week off every six months would be a better idea. Primobolan depot is not the best idea for males either...it is very weak and generally considered a female type aas...for males to see any significant growth much higher dosages are required and that becomes quite costly...there are less expensive and much better aas to be utilized...ie EQ, Deca, and your test dosage should be minimum 500mg weekly.
P

[Praetorian]

Hey P,
sorry to ask about your pct protocol, i know you've written it out many times before... i've back tracked to page 166 of this thread and can't find it and tried using the forum search tools.

what i understand so far is to run HCG at 5 shots of 2000iu ETD (every third day), then start clomid/nolva the day after the last HCG shot.... Also run an AI (preferably aromasin) while doing the HCG shots and thru with the clomid/nolva.

So..... before I come off I will be on T400 @ between 500-600mg/week. The longest ester in this test blend is the decanoate one.

questions:
1. how long after my last shot of Test do I wait before starting my HCG shots?
2. what dose aromasin would you recommend? 12.5mg ED? 25mg ED?
3. once done the HCG part, what is your protocol for using clomid/nolva/AI?

Thanks


1. Two weeks
2. 25mg ED
3. Clomid 50mg twice daily

P

[Praetorian]

Thanks for the quick reply!!

The 2 week period between last test shot and first hcg shot.... am I running aromasin 25mg ED.... or starting the aromasin at 25mg ED when I start hcg?

How many weeks should I run clomid @ 50mg 2x/day ? I don't need to taper this down?

Do I run aromasin longer than clomid? if so, how much longer?

Do I taper off aromasin? (ie; from 25mg ED to 12.5mg ED)



1. start the aromasin with the hcg
2. run the clomid for three weeks
3. stop the aromasin when you stop the clomid
4. no need to taper clomid or aromasin

P

[ubcpower]

Hey Prae, What have you found to be an effective warm up before leg training.
I have had an ongoing hip/right knee issue for the last year. I find it very hard to get them loose and warmed up before training legs.

[Praetorian]

Hey Prae, What have you found to be an effective warm up before leg training.
I have had an ongoing hip/right knee issue for the last year. I find it very hard to get them loose and warmed up before training legs.

You can start with riding the bike for 10 min or so...low resistance...then move to light stretching only...then move to leg extensions...do a full warm up then three working sets of 10 reps to failure...on to leg curls...full warm up and three working sets of 10 reps to failure...then i start full squats.

P

[cog]

Prae,what is the diff between a reverse hyperextension and a regular hyperextension.Does this actually hit the involved muscles differently?

[Praetorian]

Prae,what is the diff between a reverse hyperextension and a regular hyperextension.Does this actually hit the involved muscles differently?

Two different machines...one you are moving the upper body the other you are moving the lower body.
P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIP-c1IUbR0

[Kaly11]

You can start with riding the bike for 10 min or so...low resistance...then move to light stretching only...then move to leg extensions...do a full warm up then three working sets of 10 reps to failure...on to leg curls...full warm up and three working sets of 10 reps to failure...then i start full squats.

P

Isolation before compound?

[Praetorian]

Isolation before compound?

I do this as a pre-exhaust...since I am not trying to push my squat weight any higher and I don't want to have to use really heavy weights (over 600lbs) I pre-exhaust my quads and this also gets them totally warmed up so by the time I squat I can use 500lbs for sets of 10 and get an intense workout. For beginners who are still trying to push their squat weight up (ie unable to squat 405lbs for 10 clean reps) I would suggest using the leg extension and curl just for a warmup and avoid going to failure.
P

[Praetorian]

Good Read..
P

Once you've declared getting bigger/stronger as your goal, how do you do it? Let's start with some practical strategies that we use.

Start the process by taking a picture of yourself without a shirt on and print out 4-5 copies. Place this picture all over the place (on your mirror, in your training log, in front of your computer, etc.) If you're serious about gaining muscle and size, this constant reminder will improve your focus and cement this goal in your brain.

Now it's time to get your mind right. If we hear one more person call himself a hardgainer, we're going to vomit. At the end of the day, lack of size/development comes down to a few basic themes:

You aren't training hard enough,
You aren't recovering well enough, or
You're not eating enough to grow.
Stop telling yourself you're a hardgainer – it's a cop out! Take a critical look at your training and evaluate it; which of the three themes aren't you doing well enough?

1 of them?

2 of them?

Possibly even all 3?

It's time to stop making excuses and start getting serious. Figure out what you're not doing well and address it. NOW. The most common issue with skinny guys, though, is food. We've heard it time and time again. We're sure you feel like you eat enough.

Reality check! If you're not putting on weight/size, you're not eating enough!

So if you're not eating enough, how do we get you there?

The following are some of the tools we use with our athletes to help them bulk up. We've had great success stories with them, including two young men who've already put on 20 pounds in less than 8 weeks! Not to mention the fact that if they can do it with school and other time constraints, you can do it as well!


Practical Steps and Elements to Gaining Weight
The following are practical, real-world strategies. Some of you may read these and think, "I already know all this." Look, if you're already huge, then this doesn't really apply to you. Okay? And if you're nothuge, but that's your goal, we don't care if you know it! The Internet is filled with people who "know" stuff.

The real question is, are you applyingthese real-world strategies?

Eat every 2-3 hours. Yes, this theory has been debunked to some extent in regards to fat burning and metabolism, but if you simply need to take in a lot of calories, this is the easiest way to do it. It's really hard to eat a surplus of calories over the course of just 2-4 meals per day.

Think calorie density! Sometimes people confuse eating a high volume of foods like veggies, legumes, etc. with FEELING full. Don't equate this with taking in a lot of calories, though! Protein, fats, and carbs are all good, just make sure you're eating calorie dense foods like nuts, some fatty cuts of meat, etc.

Use liquids to your advantage. One of our primary strategies to getting more calories in is to use liquids versus whole meals. People make fun of the old "squats and milk" program, but you know what? It worked. You trained hard, took in plenty of calories, and recovered. This stuff isn't rocket science!
(Below, we'll provide you with some of the shake recipes that we use with our clients and athletes. Not only are they extremely calorically dense, but they actually taste good and are good for you as well!)

Weigh yourself once, at most twice, weekly. If the scale isn't moving, it's time to adjust one of the three themes discussed above.

Get a membership to a wholesale or bulk foods store. Nobody said getting jacked is cheap! If you're serious about cranking up the calories and getting more protein, signing up at a wholesale outlet like Sam's Club or Costco can save you a small fortune. Below was one of Mike's monthly trips to stock the fridge and freezer!

Mike Robertson

[fathead]

hey prae 2 non related questions id like to hear your thoughts on:

1) what role does fiber play in fat loss? how much fiber should one aim for in their diet when trying to get lean? if one is on a diet eating decent amounts of carb sources such as oats, brown rice and broccoli is a fiber supplement necessary (as opposed to a keto style diet where dietary fiber may be very low)?

2) what are your thoughts on using creatine while trying to get very lean. will it cause a dieter to appear smoother? does it matter what type of creatine they use (mono vs fancy). how much creatine would you recommend and what protocol (if you recommend it at all that is)

thanks

[Praetorian]

Hi fathead...see answers below...

1. From DP....

It's been shown that the inclusion of soluble fiber from psyllium can dramatically reduce the risk of heart disease by suppressing cholesterol synthesis in the liver and reducing blood levels of LDL cholesterol and triglycerides. Less LDL cholesterol means less atherogenic plaques in the blood vessels.

What most people don't know is that soluble fiber is also instrumental in any successful weightloss program. What? Fiber burns fat? Well, the beneficial bacteria of the colon have the ability to ferment soluble fiber. When this occurs, short chain fatty acids are liberated. These short chain fats can then enter the portal blood circulation and travel to the liver where they decrease the liver's output of glucose. Less circulating glucose means that less insulin is released and lower insulin levels in the blood mean that less fat is stored.

Not to be forgotten, diets that include sources of insoluble fiber also have tremendous health and performance benefits. Insoluble fiber promotes regular bowel movements, removes toxic wastes from the colon, and prevents colon cancer by maintaining optimal pH's in the intestines. When the colon is healthy and toxins are being efficiently removed from the body, muscle can be synthesized and repaired at maximal rates

2. Creatine is essential while dieting mainly because while dieting we normally lower carbohydrate intake and thus intra-cellular water is also lowered...thus reducing cell volumization. Reducing the level of water inside the cell too much can put the cell into a state of catabolism. Thus adding creatine to the diet increases cell volumization by increasing water inside the cell...not to mention the added leverage and strength maintenance as well as increased ATP stores. The dieter woudl actually appear harder because the muscles would be much more full as opposed to being flat. Water retention with a good creatine (German Creapure brand) will only occur inside the cell...with inferior creatines (absorption much less than 100%) you get extra-cellular water retention, stomach upset, etc.
As for dosage 5g in the morning and 5g post workout is all you need...no loading phase either.

P

[ubcpower]

Hey Prae,
On the fibre note, would you allow clients , specifically ones doing keto to use Metamucil's Sugar Free Orange? I am always suspect that although claiming 'sugar free' there would be hidden carbs...it tastes very sweet and almost too good to be true. here is the ingredient list pulled off the website:
Maltodextrin, Citric Acid, Natural and Artificial orange flavouring, Aspartame , FD & C Yellow #6

THanks

[Praetorian]

Hey Prae,
On the fibre note, would you allow clients , specifically ones doing keto to use Metamucil's Sugar Free Orange? I am always suspect that although claiming 'sugar free' there would be hidden carbs...it tastes very sweet and almost too good to be true. here is the ingredient list pulled off the website:
Maltodextrin, Citric Acid, Natural and Artificial orange flavouring, Aspartame , FD & C Yellow #6

THanks

Maltodextrin is a cab source....plus all my clients (100%) who tried using Metamucil end up constipated within a few weeks and have to switch to a better source ie Fiberlyze or ground flax seed.
P

[Vitamin S]

hey p,

do u believe in detox / cleanse diets like for toxin removal that should be done every year or so? if so which ones are some good ones?

thx

[bigtavi8]

Hey P question for you. I was wondering of you had any suggestions on supplements to take to improve Liver health. After my last blood work i was showing elevated liver enzymes and wanted to try anything i can to get them into normal range.

I really dont know why they would be so elevated. I do not use orals (no dbol, drol, etc), dont take acetaminophen or other drugs, and take Vitamin C at 3-4grams per day. Ive dropped all my preworkouts, supplements (arginine, creatine, etc), and just running 750 test e. Is testosterone alone enough to cause a dramatic liver enzyme increase?

[natenator]

liv-52.

[Praetorian]

hey p,

do u believe in detox / cleanse diets like for toxin removal that should be done every year or so? if so which ones are some good ones?

thx

No not really...if you are using a good fibre supp you shouldnt need to do that...now if you are doing a detox for heavy metals thats different.
P

[Praetorian]

liv-52.

Bingo!
P

[Praetorian]

Hi guys...just wanted to say thanks for all the questions and comments etc...this thread is becoming too large to handle...and it would be easier for everyone looking for answers etc to find them if each question is posted as a separate thread. Mp has given me a forum and you all are welcome to post any questions you have there as individual threads.
I want to close this thread and move everything over to my forum.
P


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[obama5493]

QUESTION....should my foods stay relatively the same all off season, or should i switch up the carb sources, and protein sources etc????
use extra fats such as olive oils and fish oils etc, and how many shakes with protein are optimal to consume, or does it make a difference??

YES THE SAME FOOD CAN BE USED...JUST ADD IN MORE CARBS START WITH 30G PER MEAL AND WORK YOUR WAY UP TO ABOUT 50-60. I WOULD TRY FOR 3-4 MEAL AND 3-4 SHAKES GIVE OR TAKE. MAKE SURE TO GET YOUR ESENTIAL FATS...TRY TO KEEP FATS TO 20G PER MEAL OR SO.
p

I'm in my 4rth week of 8 of PCT.
How should I organize my macros and cardio to sustain gains and break 10% bf?

CARDIO SHOULD BE LIMITED DURING PCT...6 MEALS PER DAY JUST LIKE DIETING JUST INCREASE CARB INTAKE TO ABOUT 30G PER MEAL.
50G PRO-30G CARBS-20G FAT
_____________
link magnets (http://www.globolstaff.com/link-magnets.html)

[Praetorian]

Please read the thread above yours.
Thanks,
P

[Praetorian]

Hi guys...just wanted to say thanks for all the questions and comments etc...this thread is becoming too large to handle...and it would be easier for everyone looking for answers etc to find them if each question is posted as a separate thread. Mp has given me a forum and you all are welcome to post any questions you have there as individual threads.
I want to close this thread and move everything over to my forum.
P


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