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  1. #21
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    If done correctly (not any keto) specific BB or athlete keto is much easier to stick to then carb cycling. Carb cycling is basically teasing the brain with glucose which is why you feel lethargic and have mood swings as well as insulin fluctuations which slow fat loss. Reducing carbs in the early stages of the diet will start fat loss up to a point where they are removed and keto is attained. Keto is inherently muscle sparing because the brain i snow running on predominantly ketone bodies and not glucose. This is the inherent problem with carb cycling...the constant requirement for glucose...if it is not available in adequate supply it can be created from protein (ie muscle). Keto is basically an extension of Paleo which humans have evolved eating for over thousands of years. It also improves health by eliminating inflammatory responses of most carbs people eat. You arent building any significant muscle while pre-contest dieting so adding high GI carbs post workout will slow fat loss in the majority of people due to the high incidence of insulin resistance....especially if you are over 10% bodyfat which is usually the case for most guys. As Charles Poliquin says you EARN your carbs...even off season. There are those that can diet carb cycling very effectively but they are the exception to the rule...one of these peopleis Milos Sarcev...who can diet with alot of carbs...most guys dieting that way would deposit fat not burn it.
    P
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TT Eric View Post
    You go for 1 tbsp each morning ? And you train at what time of the day ?

    Me I was going for 1 tbsp each morning and on training day I was taking one more 1 an hour before training.

    Eric
    You will have alot of energy from the fats you are currently eating without adding MCT's...they are also performing healthy functions in the body. How long do you think the Tbsp of MCT taken in the morning lasts in the body as an energy source after ingesting?
    P
    Last edited by Praetorian; 16-05-2012 at 10:41 PM.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Praetorian View Post
    You will have alot of energy from the fats you are currently eating without adding MCT's...they are also performing healthy functions in the body. How long do you think the Tbsp of MCT taken in the morning lasts in the body as an energy source after ingesting?
    P
    Not very long, I guess an hour ?

    My idea behind the MCT's were not toward health purpose, but toward increase fat burning (as they said) and preserving muscle from gluconegenesis. And the one TBSP before training was to add energy to the session on top of that.

    For the last 3-4 weeks I did not take MCTs as per your recommendation (you know how much I value your opinion/expertise), I must say that training has become harder and harder (now on the 5th week on keto), I get light headed at the gym and not only it's harder to push, but I need more time to finish my sessions, about 30-40% more time, this is not good (outside of the gym energy levels are great, even excellent I must say). So today I decided to take some MCT, because last workout was really not going well (mind is there, but the body cannot perform accordingly), I took one TBSP of MCTs 20 min before training along with my usual pre-workout mix (Beta-alanine, citruline, Arginine and a bit of EAA, BCAA, L-Carnitine & glutamine) and it was better. I have adjusted the intake of the fat according to that also of course, I took less fat on the meal 45-60 min before the pre-workout drink.

    Not saying I will do that all the time, again because I value your saying, but I wanted to test it. I have ordered some caffeine as you told me to take (note : I have drank only one coffee in my whole life and never took any caffeine pills in my whole 41 year old life). So I'm gonna go with that ASAP and hoping it will give as much energy MCTs do.

    Eric
    “Strong people make other people stronger. They don’t put them down.”
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  4. #24
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    Of course adding MCT before training will give you energy...its an energy source....you could also take macadamia nut oil, olive oil etc. The longer you diet and the leaner you get the tougher it becomes because you are using up the bodies energy source...ie body fat...also your appetite will increase as you get leaner...its a natural protective mechanism. Inherent to keto as i said before is the brain does not want glucose for energy thus gluconeogenesis is not an issue....if you were carb cycling than it would be an issue because there is a need for glucose but because you are cycling you arent providing it constantly. Remember the body can store fatty acids as well as glycogen but not protein...this is why for some to get extremely lean they need to drop fats as well for 1-5 days and eat basically protein and some veggies...yet they still do not lose muscle as long as you supply the necessary amino acids and dont go longer than 5-6 days without fatty acids.

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  5. #25
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    Ok I know the body and brain could use ketone very well, but my concern is when training hard and the energy demand is very high that the body would use gluconeogenesis as a quick source of energy, no ?

    Tomorrow it will be my 6th week, is it normal that I'm beginning to reduce my fat intake ?

    Eric
    “Strong people make other people stronger. They don’t put them down.”
    "If success makes you arrogant, you haven’t really succeeded. If failure makes you determined, you haven’t really failed...''

  6. #26
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    Your body will use glycogen from the trace carbs you are eating for training. This is why training is fairly short in duration and higher intensity...thus alot of glycogen is not required. If your keto diet is tuned correctly you will be having 50g carbs daily.
    There is no normal...its what is necessary for each individual. I cant really say but the 6 week mark is quite early to be dropping fat or calories. I usually only drop some fat the last 4 weeks. How much cardio are you doing?
    P
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  7. #27
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    I do slow cardio, walking, sometime with a bag of 10-25lbs for 1.5 to 2.5 hours, 3 to 4 times a week, usually afternoon, or I go hiking, biking, rollerblading... I like outdoor stuff.

    This morning I tried something new, after waking-up, with the mark of the pillow still embedded in my face, I went doing a bit of HIIT, I happen to live in a 24 floor story building. So I raced 2 flight of stairs, walked 2 slowly, raced 2...

    About training, I'm use to train to failure all the time, never leaving a rep undone, but now it's freakingly harder, I feel weaker, my normal training of 1hrs take me about 20 min more as I need longer break... so I should do less sets and keep intensity high ? Or go a bit less intense and keep the same # of sets ?

    Thanks

    Eric
    Last edited by TT Eric; 18-05-2012 at 01:33 PM.
    “Strong people make other people stronger. They don’t put them down.”
    "If success makes you arrogant, you haven’t really succeeded. If failure makes you determined, you haven’t really failed...''

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TT Eric View Post
    I do slow cardio, walking, sometime with a bag of 10-25lbs for 1.5 to 2.5 hours, 3 to 4 times a week, usually afternoon, or I go hiking, biking, rollerblading... I like outdoor stuff.

    This morning I tried something new, after waking-up, with the mark of the pillow still embedded in my face, I went doing a bit of HIIT, I happen to live in a 24 floor story building. So I raced 2 flight of stairs, walked 2 slowly, raced 2...

    About training, I'm use to train to failure all the time, never leaving a rep undone, but now it's freakingly harder, I feel weaker, my normal training of 1hrs take me about 20 min more as I need longer break... so I should do less sets and keep intensity high ? Or go a bit less intense and keep the same # of sets ?

    Thanks

    Eric
    do you periodize your training? I personally take an instinctive approach with structure when it comes to training, evaluate how i feel when training and make changes as i go. for instance, starting my year, season, prep etc. I begin with very high volume, lower intensity for a total of 30-40 sets total per bodypart and repping out at 12-15+ reps. I can usually do this and get the same great pump for about 8 weeks or so... when my body begins to feel like im just going through the motions and not really getting anything from it I drop the sets down by 5 or so total sets and decrease rep range to 8-12, thus increasing intensity per set. i usually switch these macrocycles every 4-8 weeks. Depending how i'm feeling, i may make changes in the same macrocycle yet using the same rep range (giant sets, drop sets, rest pause, fst-7 style sets). finally nearing the end of my prep, mesocycle etc, again drop the reps to 6-8 and increase intensity. my advice would be to try different things while still structuring a periodized workout plan like stated above.

  9. #29
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    Yes I do change often and try to be instinctive too. One thing is sensible for me is to be careful not to train too much or too hard while dieting, I always remember my first competition, I was 19, I had good looking 26.5'' legs, I was recommend to do supersets (it was squats and hack squat 20 reps each) and I lost 2'' in 2 weeks, they went down to 24.5''. I dunno what happened exactly, but it was very discouraging. Something similar happened to my arms, off season, on regular high volume training to failure. So I'm extremely sensible to overtraining and when on diet I'm very careful to watch any sign of loosing muscle.

    This might explain why I'm afraid to loose muscle when I feel I have no energy to train as hard as usual and looking for solution like MCTs to preserve muscle. I might be completely off, but this is how I feel instinctively. With that said, I thrust Prae's experience enough, so I only took MCT once for a try and did not repeated the experience.

    Also, this is why. this week, I changed my routine for a HST style. My last routine seemed too big now that I'm on diet. Training now the whole body 3 times a week.

    Leg curls 2x8-10
    Squats 2x10-12
    Standing calf raise 2x10-12
    Bench press 2x8-10
    Pulls-up (neutral grip) 2x8-10
    Overhead press 2x8-10
    Chin-ups (supinated) 2x8-10
    Dips 2x8-10
    One superset of hypersxtension, oblique work and crunch with focus on not involving the hip flexors
    Stretching (I'm very tight in the hip flexors area and rectus femoris)

    It make about 19 sets without the warm-ups and stretching. About 1h15 all this including. Normally I train for one hour with that kind of sets.

    That way every body parts are hit 3 times a week and not too much sets to avoid overtrainning. Every set to failure. Mostly with multijoints exercises. Results seems good with that. I would even say it run very good, my only doubt came when Prae said it was not enough days in the gym. But I need to mention that my body always seemed to respond well to HIT (Ellington Darden style). Which is similar, only with more exercises but only one set per exercises and beyond failure (forced reps, cheated, negatives...).

    Eric
    “Strong people make other people stronger. They don’t put them down.”
    "If success makes you arrogant, you haven’t really succeeded. If failure makes you determined, you haven’t really failed...''

  10. #30
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    I wouldn't worry about muscle loss... if your protein intake is high enough and of course getting your good fats in and running gear (not sure if your natural or not), the whole overtraining thing i think is bullshit. Prepping for nationals I averaged 2-3 hours a day, sometimes going 10-15 days straight training doing giant sets and up to 3 hours of cardio per day everyday, sleeping less than 4 hours a night, working (as a personal trainer conveniently enough) 14-16 hours 6x per week AND eating roughly 1000 calories in the final weeks and I have never been so ripped and full in my life. Basically if you have all your ducks in a row, keep training as intensly as possible on your working sets. If you feel an injury coming on, maybe its time to pick a different variation of the exercises your doing, sometimes thats all it takes to get things going again. I know I get bored with my routines very often and like to change them up and even make new exercises. I don't think theres a whole lot you can do wrong. In my experience, the body can take a shit load of a beating on very minimal fuel and you will be ripped to shit. keep atter dude, take the extra time between sets if you need it. unless you're doing timed sets dont worry. I use the rule of thumb for breaks: whenever my breathing comes back to normal i start my next set. (taken from Craig Bonnett)


 
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