oral HCG cycle only

I am a complete beginner, was lifting naturally for about 1.5 years now, good gains, solid progress, but I have been reading up on juices lately, just doing my research. From what I gather, any beginner cycle does require PCT, even with mild stuff like M1T and Superdrol. For my first cycle I was considering some sort of injectable test suspension with anavar, but that will for sure require PCT.

So, before trying a cycle, I wanted to see how my body responds to PCT, which would come after the cycle. I know some drugs may have side-effects, like clomid for example (read on some eyesight problems), and some products may not produce the desired effect - works differently for everyone.

The best alternative is injectable HCG, or so I think. Only 3-4 shots are required, spaced evenly 3-4 days apart. I also noticed availability of oral HCG.

So, my question is: if I am to do an oral cycle of HCG only, what would the dosages be and does it even make sense to do this? Other products anyone would recommend? Right now I am sticking to oral stuff, because of the lifestyle - I know, injectables are best.

Feel free to bash this any way you like - I always appreciate constructive criticism.

Well, oral only cycles are far from ideal and few here will recommend them for very valid reasons. That said, M1T and Superdrol are not "mild". They are quite strong and rife with side-effects (liver, kidneys, etc) that you do not want. Frankly, they are toxic as hell and I don't know why anyone would use them. I'm not going to get into an oral only cycle of other compounds b/c it's a waste of time IMO. Reconsider what you're planning, you're going to hurt yourself.

You need to do way more research before you jump on a cycle.

Yeah, anything oral is hard on liver and kidneys. My problem is: how do I inject HCG without anyone noticing? I live with some people and I don't feel like carrying syringes on me all day long. Any other ideas to getting this stuff into the blood? Spray? Sublingual? I just want to see the effect of HCG first. I know nolva and 6-oxo are oral, but without side-effects.

I agree bro read alot before you do anything. Oral only cycles is asking for trouble

Bro listen, all orals are going to mess with your kidneys liver etc and some more then others. Honestly if your thinking about drinking HCG you need to read more for sure . If your not ready to inject i think you should wait. Test is by far the best for your body IMO and all you got to do is 500mg a week its just two shots a week


looks like this :

1wk-12wk 500mg test e

two weeks after your last shot start PCT
1-2wk 40mg Novadex
3-4wk 20mg Novadex


read this thread twice
http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/fo...ead.php?t=4863

check this out
http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/fo...ght=post+cycle

I've never heard of someone doing an HCG only cycle. It's meant for keeping the testes working while doing a heavy cycle, or bringing them back when you've been shut down. I don't see how doing an HCG only cycle would be of any benefit to you whatsoever.

And as already mentioned, M1T and Superdrol are not mild. If you want to do an oral only cycle, try Havoc. It's relatively mild (still take liv52 and milk thistle for liver support) and can offer a boost in lifts for a little while (4-6 weeks).

Have you tried, or are you taking creatine? Even something as simple as taking creatine mono if you aren't already, is a good way to get a quick boost in strength.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prokyon

My problem is: how do I inject HCG without anyone noticing? I live with some people and I don't feel like carrying syringes on me all day long.

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Well that might be tricky especially since HCG needs to be kept cold...

As for injecting though, just do it in the bathroom! I assume your roommates don't accompany you in there?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kloan

Have you tried, or are you taking creatine? Even something as simple as taking creatine mono if you aren't already, is a good way to get a quick boost in strength.

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Yes, creatine does nothing for me. I got a little bit of volume with BCAA powder, but nothing noticeable. I was loading on creatine at 20g per day for 6 days, then took it for 3 weeks at 10g per day. Nothing. It was a regular monohydrate by Higher Power.

MSM and glucosamine works for me, as well as fish oil and regular multi every month for a month. Apart from that - nothing else out there, even stuff like Tribulus and Zeus (wasted some big $$$ there).

Thanks for the responses - keep em coming. I got a lot of reading to do I guess. Right now I have some things I still wanna try in my workouts, so no juice yet. But yes, I need to read a lot more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iwant2Grow

looks like this :

1wk-12wk 500mg test e

two weeks after your last shot start PCT
1-2wk 40mg Novadex
3-4wk 20mg Novadex

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Right, but I've never tried Novadex, so I don't even know how my body responds to the stuff. Wouldn't it make sense to just try
1-2wk 40mg Novadex
3-4wk 20mg Novadex
first, so PCT only? I know, no benefits, but I want to make sure that when the time comes for PCT, everything works like it should. Or am I completely wrong?

Thanks for the links btw, I found these too:
PCT:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...92#post6072892
Superdrol for dummies:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=519245

NOLVADEX is an anti estrogen thats why we are saying read bro.. it is used in PCT your nor doing anything that would need it

training for 1.5 years....wait on it for another 1.5.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prokyon

Right, but I've never tried Novadex, so I don't even know how my body responds to the stuff. Wouldn't it make sense to just try
1-2wk 40mg Novadex
3-4wk 20mg Novadex
first, so PCT only? I know, no benefits, but I want to make sure that when the time comes for PCT, everything works like it should. Or am I completely wrong?
Thanks for the links btw, I found these too:
PCT:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...92#post6072892
Superdrol for dummies:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=519245

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Your natural testosterone is not suppressed right now. What effects are you expecting to see by running it when it's of no benefit whatsoever? How can you measure usefulness when there is nothing to measure?

By the way, I looked at your SD link and I have to say that, apart from the Nolva, the PCT listed is just silly.

wk1: 40mg Nolva, 600 6oxo, 3 fenugreek caps, DHEA 200mg
wk2: 40mg Nolva, 600 6oxo, 4 fenugreek caps, DHEA 200mg
wk4: 20mg Nolva, 300 6oxo, 5 fenugreek caps, DHEA 100mg
wk3: 10mg Nolva, 300 6oxo, 6 fenugreek caps, DHEA 100mg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prokyon

Right, but I've never tried Novadex, so I don't even know how my body responds to the stuff. Wouldn't it make sense to just try
1-2wk 40mg Novadex
3-4wk 20mg Novadex
first, so PCT only? I know, no benefits, but I want to make sure that when the time comes for PCT, everything works like it should. Or am I completely wrong?

Thanks for the links btw, I found these too:
PCT:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...92#post6072892
Superdrol for dummies:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=519245

---

honestly bro , i have no experience with PH's i just won't put things like that in my body cause there not enough history to it for me
if you think you only can do a oral fine get some dbol, but you seem young to me bro ill try to help you cause i don't want you to hurt your self


I think you missing the point of PCT its POST CYCLE THERAPY its to restart you body's HTPA and lower estrogen till your natural test levels resume . no cycle, need to to do it an its not going to do anything good for you

Nova will block estrogen in your body the only thing you may feel if anything its going to give you sore joints cause you blocked all your body's esto and why the **** would you want to do that ? BTW nova is a breast cancer med bro so don't **** with this shit until you understand every drug fully, don't put it in your body till your a expert on it

see what reall worries me is

you are missing a big thing here you talking about taking drugs that stimulate your HTPA and suppress estrogen , why would you do that to your self if you hadn't done a cycle. it doesn't work like that. there is a science behind it bro. that why its called a cycle - like a chain of events you do to make a desired out come. if you don't know how a drug act on your HPTA then maybe you shouldn't do it .. think bro

you seem to know how to search on BB try that here and you will learn tons ;-) we all started some wheres bro just do more research and ask more questions and will try to help

KISS - TEST IS BEST AND DON"T DO PCT for Practice lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iwant2Grow

KISS - TEST IS BEST AND DON"T DO PCT for Practice lol

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Cool, thanks a lot! I also have plenty of things to improve in my training in the meantime, so I won't do anything. Like tex was saying, train for another 1.5 years.

Any over the counter supplements that you guys might recommend? At this point I completely lost faith in anything over the counter: nitric oxide, creatine, bcaa, test boosters, etc. Just does nothing for me, although some guys out there swear by it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PdH

By the way, I looked at your SD link and I have to say that, apart from the Nolva, the PCT listed is just silly.
wk1: 40mg Nolva, 600 6oxo, 3 fenugreek caps, DHEA 200mg
wk2: 40mg Nolva, 600 6oxo, 4 fenugreek caps, DHEA 200mg
wk4: 20mg Nolva, 300 6oxo, 5 fenugreek caps, DHEA 100mg
wk3: 10mg Nolva, 300 6oxo, 6 fenugreek caps, DHEA 100mg

---

Yeah, there's a lot of garbage on these forums, I find. CBB is by far the best forum with the most accurate info. And what does DHEA have to do with PCT? And fenugreek?

I got my hands on Anabolics 2006, so I have to read that as well at some point, right now I just browsed through the third part on different profiles.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prokyon

Cool, thanks a lot! I also have plenty of things to improve in my training in the meantime, so I won't do anything. Like tex was saying, train for another 1.5 years. Any over the counter supplements that you guys might recommend? At this point I completely lost faith in anything over the counter: nitric oxide, creatine, bcaa, test boosters, etc. Just does nothing for me, although some guys out there swear by it.

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Whey isolate and fish oil.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prokyon

Yeah, there's a lot of garbage on these forums, I find. CBB is by far the best forum with the most accurate info. And what does DHEA have to do with PCT? And fenugreek?


I got my hands on Anabolics 2006, so I have to read that as well at some point, right now I just browsed through the third part on different profiles.

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fenugreek supposedly boosts test but i wouldn't use it untill after the pct is done as the other drugs you will be on do the same thing

read anabolics 2006 its a good reference

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PdH

Whey isolate and fish oil.

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this and a mulit-vitamen and vitamin c are to ONLY supps i use the rest is marketing garbage i think

Think it would be good if you laid out your diet and training
i'm sure a lot of people could help you here with this , then when everything is
perfect you will be able to add some juice

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iwant2Grow

Think it would be good if you laid out your diet and training
i'm sure a lot of people could help you here with this , then when everything is
perfect you will be able to add some juice

---

Bump, let;s see what the diet and training look like.

For supps, a good whey protein, fish oils, glutamine is really all that's needed. Mabe a multi-vitamin and some extra vit. C too if your diet is lacking in fruits and veggies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gustavo77

Bump, let;s see what the diet and training look like.

For supps, a good whey protein, fish oils, glutamine is really all that's needed. Mabe a multi-vitamin and some extra vit. C too if your diet is lacking in fruits and veggies.

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I am actually in the middle of getting that tweaked by some guy, it won't change much, but I wanted to wait a few weeks until I get the new routine on the road.

Should I post in this thread or create a new thread in the diet and nutrition section?

Glutamine does nothing for me. Again: MSM, glucosamine, multi, fish oil (nutra) and whey isolate by Allmax work for me - nothing else out there, even tribulus.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prokyon

Should I post in this thread or create a new thread in the diet and nutrition section?

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I would post a new thread Bro.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prokyon

I am actually in the middle of getting that tweaked by some guy, it won't change much, but I wanted to wait a few weeks until I get the new routine on the road.

Should I post in this thread or create a new thread in the diet and nutrition section?

Glutamine does nothing for me. Again: MSM, glucosamine, multi, fish oil (nutra) and whey isolate by Allmax work for me - nothing else out there, even tribulus.

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Glutamine does nothing for you?? How do you know this?? So the other 1000's of people that take it for decreased recovery time and immune system support are full of shit??

Bro, how much glutamine were you taking, how often, at what time during the day did you take it?? With or without food??

Glutamine will not make you huge in a week but it will help you recover faster, boost your immune system and hydrate your muscles...in the short term you may not feel much but in the long term this will equal more muscle.

This is just my opinion but you are no where near ready to use any drugs for BB purposes...you need to eat, train and rest, that;s all...if all this is happening to slow for you, then you may need to find another hobby cause bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gustavo77

Glutamine does nothing for you?? How do you know this?? So the other 1000's of people that take it for decreased recovery time and immune system support are full of shit??

Bro, how much glutamine were you taking, how often, at what time during the day did you take it?? With or without food??

Glutamine will not make you huge in a week but it will help you recover faster, boost your immune system and hydrate your muscles...in the short term you may not feel much but in the long term this will equal more muscle.

This is just my opinion but you are no where near ready to use any drugs for BB purposes...you need to eat, train and rest, that;s all...if all this is happening to slow for you, then you may need to find another hobby cause bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint.

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Good points!
Glutamine: I took the one by Optimum Nutrition, 5g in the morning on the empty stomach, 5 g post-workout, or on off days 5 g in the evening, before bed, before my last meal. After a month I did not feel any different in terms of recovery, but I have a feeling someone will step in now and tell me that I should have waited for at least a year... d'oh!

Creatine: I did the same, except for I took 10g dosages for 6 days, at which point I started to notice more volume, but as soon as I reduced the dosage to 5g, the volume disappeared.

You are right - I am no-where near the use of any drugs. I'm okay with the marathon thing though. Just to clarify: creatine hydrates the muscle cells, which increases the rate of protein synthesis, based on what I understand. This does not translate into short-term strength increase, but because the muscles recover better between workouts, this does result in long-term strength gain as well as volume increase.

So, could someone please comment on my use of creatine and glutamine? I want to know:
At what time during the day to take the stuff?
How many grams per serving?
What is the cycle length, if any?
Loading? Is it just marketing hype?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prokyon

Good points!
Glutamine: I took the one by Optimum Nutrition, 5g in the morning on the empty stomach, 5 g post-workout, or on off days 5 g in the evening, before bed, before my last meal. After a month I did not feel any different in terms of recovery, but I have a feeling someone will step in now and tell me that I should have waited for at least a year... d'oh!

Creatine: I did the same, except for I took 10g dosages for 6 days, at which point I started to notice more volume, but as soon as I reduced the dosage to 5g, the volume disappeared.

You are right - I am no-where near the use of any drugs. I'm okay with the marathon thing though. Just to clarify: creatine hydrates the muscle cells, which increases the rate of protein synthesis, based on what I understand. This does not translate into short-term strength increase, but because the muscles recover better between workouts, this does result in long-term strength gain as well as volume increase.

So, could someone please comment on my use of creatine and glutamine? I want to know:
At what time during the day to take the stuff?
How many grams per serving?
What is the cycle length, if any?
Loading? Is it just marketing hype?

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Well, what are you looking for in terms of results??

Creatine does increase ATP (Adenosine triphosphate) so you should notice an increase in stamina during workouts...so you should have noticed something in terms of workout capacity, stamina and strength...if not, i would question the quality of the product you were using.

Glutamine is very subtle...but after 3-4 weeks, you should have noticed a little more fullness in your muscles and less soreness/faster recovery from workouts...

Personally i think you are looking for too much in supplements....at the end of the day, your training and diet are what will make you grow not supplements.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prokyon

How many grams per serving?
What is the cycle length, if any?
Loading? Is it just marketing hype?

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Take 10g of glutamine on an empty stomach first thing in the morning...wait 10-15 minutes before eating food or you can take a protein shake right away.

Take another 10g of glutamine with a postworkout drink listed below:

PWO drink:

50grams of dextrose, powdered gatorade or waxy maize
10 grams of glutamine
5 grams of creatine
5 grams of BCAA powder

20-30 min later drink 50grams of whey protein. 30-45 minutes later eat PWO meal.

You can take creatine Pre-workout also but i do not think it is necessary...

prokyon. Listen to gus i have learned alot form this guy ,
I agree 100% with everything he has said bro

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gustavo77

Take 10g of glutamine on an empty stomach first thing in the morning...wait 10-15 minutes before eating food or you can take a protein shake right away.

Take another 10g of glutamine with a postworkout drink listed below:

PWO drink:

50grams of dextrose, powdered gatorade or waxy maize
10 grams of glutamine
5 grams of creatine
5 grams of BCAA powder

20-30 min later drink 50grams of whey protein. 30-45 minutes later eat PWO meal.

You can take creatine Pre-workout also but i do not think it is necessary...

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Cool, thanks! I will add that into my diet, I would just increase the creatine to 10g per serving. 5g just does not cut it for me in terms of absorption, I know this much for a fact. I am also on a ketogenic diet, I respond to carbs badly, even stuff like waxy maize, so I would not add the carbs above. I get my energy from fish oil for now and any fats that are in meats that I eat, although they're as lean as possible, but still there are some fats present. I should probably add some MCTs as a fat/energy source at some point. After workout in PWO shake is a good idea.

You need some carbs post workout bro, it wont make you fat or bring you out of ketosis

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JifeLacket

You need some carbs post workout bro, it wont make you fat or bring you out of ketosis

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Okay, but how many g of carbs? I think 20g is ample, maybe 30g is enough. I think that 50g is too much. And what is wrong with replacing carbs with MCTs as a source of energy?
I'm not saying that anyone is wrong, I just want to understand this.

I just posted a log here with pics, diet and training:
http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/fo...ad.php?t=17003

...edit sorry about that