HCG

[crackdawg]

I started a cycle almost 3 weeks ago
1000 mg test cyp
800 mg primobolan
and started 25 mg aromasin at week 3 ED
I have HCG and plan to do it during the cycle
should I start it week 4 at 500iu EW
well that's what I was thinking
what do you think?
thanks!
also running dbol's starting week 4 20 or 40 mg ED
not sure yet

[Skyblob]

Thats what im planning to do too, 500ui HCG a week! I bump this for info!

[jmonkey]

i have always ran it at the end of my cycle...its hard to say if it will keep everything "normal" while doing it during cycle...but then again what do i know...lets hear some more feedback:greet.

[gustavo77]

i have always ran it at the end of my cycle...its hard to say if it will keep everything "normal" while doing it during cycle...but then again what do i know...lets hear some more feedback:greet.

HCG will definitely keep the testes stimulated and functioning on cycle, there is no doubt about this....

I use 500iu 2x per week and it works very well...

[crackdawg]

can I get away with 250iu's EW?

[waderow]

250iu ew is low in my opinion. quit being so cheap

plus, it degrades over time, so if you mix up 5000iu. at 250 iu per week you are looking at having it around for 20 weeks (5 months)

Some say it degrades after one month

[Drummer]

I think 500iu a week may be too little. 500IU E3D should be effective. Have you thought about running a competative AI like arimidex instead of a suicide AI like aro? Just a thought, you may want some estro around to really help your gains, recovery and anti inflammatory action. Also, some guys like to run a little nolva with the HCG to help protect against leydig desensitization, however at those low doses it prolly wont be a problem. Id rather use less ancilliaries than more. The HCG will server to keep the boys from shrinkin and add a little natty test to the mix also. Ive never run it on cycle, but i WILL next time, i just couldnt get it this round in time. Then you can just straight to PCT (nolva, aro) as soon as the esters clear and bounce back quicker, awsome.

~D~

[Drummer]

250iu ew is low in my opinion. quit being so cheap

plus, it degrades over time, so if you mix up 5000iu. at 250 iu per week you are looking at having it around for 20 weeks (5 months)

Some say it degrades after one month

^^^agreed. Use it in the month you mix it. It degrades quick.

[Drummer]

i have always ran it at the end of my cycle...its hard to say if it will keep everything "normal" while doing it during cycle...but then again what do i know...lets hear some more feedback:greet.

It will serve to keep the testicles from atrophy for sure, its been well reviewed on this matter.

[Ritch]

I feel you in the confusion of this question myslelf. Just started my cycle last monday and don`t know which protocol I will be doing. Many say to do 250 iu twice a week, but as we know the value of the hcg decreases over time. This method it will last 10 weeks and 8 is the max said time of hcg being good when mixed in the bac water. The other way I was going to do it is skip the first 3 weeks being no hcg then doing 350iu twice a weeks for 7 weeks (which is good because it`s used up before the 8 week mark, then go off hcg for 3 weeks and back on for 7 weeks. This also allows me to use only 2 vials for a 20 week cycle. May have to flip a coin on this one.

[Solo59]

IMO, HCG in bac water might last 10 weeks, but since it's fairly cheap and has great effects on libido:D, why not use 500 iu 2x EW so it only has to last 5 weeks?

Solo

[crackdawg]

500iu's EW it is

I have 2 bottles (10 000iu's) on hand

[Drummer]

To give you a reference, i will be using 500iu every day for 20 days after my cycle as a part of my PCT protocol. This includes running nolva and aro and vit e during this time and for 6 more weeks after.

~D~

[crackdawg]

carefull not to over do it!

"When AAS are put into a male body, the body's natural negative-feedback loops cause the body to shut down its own production of testosterone via shutdown of the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis (HPGA). In males, hCG mimics luteinizing hormone and helps restore and maintain testosterone production in the testes. As such, hCG is commonly used during and after steroid cycles to maintain and restore testicular size as well as normal testosterone production. However, if hCG is used for too long and in too high of a dose, the resulting rise in natural testosterone will eventually inhibit its own production via negative feedback on the hypothalamus and pituitary.

It is a common misconception that estrogen will be elevated post cycle. Generally, estrogen is below a normal level after a cycle.[11] High levels of AASs that mimic the body's natural testosterone trigger the hypothalamus to shut down its production of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) from the hypothalamus. Without GnRH, the pituitary gland stops releasing LH. LH normally travels from the pituitary via the blood stream to the testes, where it triggers the production and release of testosterone. Without LH, the testes shut down their production of testosterone, causing testicular atrophy."

[Solo59]

Right, but how much is enough and how much is too much? It will vary with individuals and with age, sure, but I only know of two people who had pituitary problems that were likely caused by over-used of (prescribed) hCG. But each was running like 2000 iu ED for a while.

I and many others used to run 1000 iu ED for 10 days after last inject of a cycle before learning to use it steadily during cycle. Great 10 days and no known sides or after-affects appeared.

Solo


carefull not to over do it!

"When AAS are put into a male body, the body's natural negative-feedback loops cause the body to shut down its own production of testosterone via shutdown of the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis (HPGA). In males, hCG mimics luteinizing hormone and helps restore and maintain testosterone production in the testes. As such, hCG is commonly used during and after steroid cycles to maintain and restore testicular size as well as normal testosterone production. However, if hCG is used for too long and in too high of a dose, the resulting rise in natural testosterone will eventually inhibit its own production via negative feedback on the hypothalamus and pituitary.

It is a common misconception that estrogen will be elevated post cycle. Generally, estrogen is below a normal level after a cycle.[11] High levels of AASs that mimic the body's natural testosterone trigger the hypothalamus to shut down its production of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) from the hypothalamus. Without GnRH, the pituitary gland stops releasing LH. LH normally travels from the pituitary via the blood stream to the testes, where it triggers the production and release of testosterone. Without LH, the testes shut down their production of testosterone, causing testicular atrophy."

[Drummer]

HCG is used in fertility clinics for men at single doses in the tens of thousands of IU's per shot. Using nolva is also a defence against desensitization. Ive read somewhere that an endocrinologist speaking about HCG said that these 500iu doses are useless and too low to matter, however i dont see to many studies that are based on why we use it. So, im not worried about over doing it, id only be worred if i was taking much higher doses. Let us know how it goes at 500iu a week, even tho i would consider it low, the feedback is valuable.

~D~

[wan2lrn]

Tomorrow will begin the 4th week of my cycle and my first injection of HCG at 300iu. I will be using 600iu per week for 5 weeks. After that, 2000iu will go into the garbage. I know, what a waste, but 5 weeks is long enough even though I reconstituted it with BAC water. I will let you know how it goes.

[Drummer]

Tomorrow will begin the 4th week of my cycle and my first injection of HCG at 300iu. I will be using 600iu per week for 5 weeks. After that, 2000iu will go into the garbage. I know, what a waste, but 5 weeks is long enough even though I reconstituted it with BAC water. I will let you know how it goes.

You need to run the HCG for as long as it takes for the steroids to run out your body, or dont bother with it until the very end of the cycle. You can carefull reconstitute half of it now and half later if you like, if you have the right stuff to do it (an extra sterile sealed vial will do it). Be as careful as you can if you split it up to get it even. If your on test e, you would run the HCG 2-3 weeks longer than your last shot the finish the appropriate PCT. Its no use running it in the middle of the cycle and stopping, youll just be suppressed again in a few weeks.

~D~

[Solo59]

Tomorrow will begin the 4th week of my cycle and my first injection of HCG at 300iu. I will be using 600iu per week for 5 weeks. After that, 2000iu will go into the garbage. I know, what a waste, but 5 weeks is long enough even though I reconstituted it with BAC water. I will let you know how it goes.

Waste indeed. Will 600 iu EW really keep the boys fat or return them to being so? Not in my case, but I'm ancient.

Solo

[Drummer]

Waste indeed. Will 600 iu EW really keep the boys fat or return them to being so? Not in my case, but I'm ancient.

Solo

Solo, your input here would be good. What weekly dose of HCG worked for your boys to stay fat?

~D~

[wan2lrn]

You need to run the HCG for as long as it takes for the steroids to run out your body, or dont bother with it until the very end of the cycle. You can carefull reconstitute half of it now and half later if you like, if you have the right stuff to do it (an extra sterile sealed vial will do it). Be as careful as you can if you split it up to get it even. If your on test e, you would run the HCG 2-3 weeks longer than your last shot the finish the appropriate PCT. Its no use running it in the middle of the cycle and stopping, youll just be suppressed again in a few weeks.

~D~

My cycle is only 8 weeks long. (prop and tren ace) The HCG will end with the cycle. Then 2 days after the last shot, I will begin PCT(clomid 50mg weeks 9-11 and aromasin 12.5mg weeks 1-13).

[Drummer]

My cycle is only 8 weeks long. (prop and tren ace) The HCG will end with the cycle. Then 2 days after the last shot, I will begin PCT(clomid 50mg weeks 9-11 and aromasin 12.5mg weeks 1-13).

Ahhh your esters are short, so your ending the HCG in line with that. Good stuff. That should do the trick

~D~

[crackdawg]

I have 5ml of solvent that came with the powder
instructions says when reconstit = 1000iu per 1 ml
so half a cc is 500iu
if I use the 27 g pin with units is 5 units = to 500iu's?

[tiramisu]

Will hcg allow you to shoot live rounds while on cycle?

Wife is yammering about wanting a baby soon.

[Drummer]

Will hcg allow you to shoot live rounds while on cycle?

Wife is yammering about wanting a baby soon.
probably but id go clean for 6 months before conceiving. why take the chance?

~D~

[Drummer]

I have 5ml of solvent that came with the powder
instructions says when reconstit = 1000iu per 1 ml
so half a cc is 500iu
if I use the 27 g pin with units is 5 units = to 500iu's?

depends on the barrel. if your barrel is i 5's it may be .5ml total like mine. But i have had 1ml barrels with the 27 guage needle too. Is the highest value 50? its prolly a .5 ml barrel, which is 500iu.

~D~

[crackdawg]

ya I looked and its a

1 ml 27 g half inch pin

and 1 ml is 1000iu

so I did 5 iu yesterday and I should

do another in 2 more days?

or Is 500iu enough?

I take it, this should be shot every 3rd day?

[Benny62]

Here is a supporting article EF sent out today on HCG I hope this helps.


These studies show that postponing hCG usage until the end of a steroid cycle increases your need for a higher dose of hCG, and decreases your odds of a full recovery. As a consequence to using a higher dose of hCG at the end of a cycle, estrogen will be increased disproportionately to testosterone, which then causes further HPTA suppression (from high estrogen) while increasing the risk of gyno. (11) For example, high doses of hCG have been found to raise estradiol up to 165%, while only raising testosterone 140%. (11) Higher doses of hCG are also known to reduce LH receptor concentration and degrade the enzymes responsible for testosterone synthesis within the testes (12,13,19 ) -- the last thing someone wants during recovery. While these negative effects of hCG can be partly mitigated by the use of a SERM such as tamoxifen, it will create further problems associated with using a toxic SERM (covered in another article).

In light of the above evidence, it becomes obvious that we must take preventative measures to avoid this testicular degeneration. We must protect our testicular sensitivity. Besides, with hCG being so readily available, and such a painless shot, it makes you wonder why anyone wouldn’t use it on cycle.

Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG. (2) It is important that low-dose hCG is started before testicular sensitivity is reduced, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use. Also, it’s important to discontinue the hCG before you start PCT so your leydig cells are given a chance to re-sensitize to your body’s own LH production. (To help further enhance testicular sensitivity, the dietary supplement Toco-8 may be used)

A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a twice a week shot of 200iu hCG, or possibly a once a week shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hCG to mimic the body’s natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion. If you are starting hCG late in the cycle, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hCG ‘kick starting’ dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of LH absence, since the testes will be desensitized, thus requiring a higher dose. (ie. 40iu x 60 days = 2400iu HCG dose)

Recap:

For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 100iu hCG ED starting 7 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels, while initiating LH and FSH production from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Remember, recovery doesn’t begin until you are off hCG since your body will not release its own LH until the hCG has cleared the system.

In conclusion, we have learned that utilizing hCG during a steroid cycle will significantly prevent testicular degeneration. This helps create a seamless transition from “on cycle” to “off cycle” thus avoiding the post cycle crash

[Ritch]

^^^ I`m not saying I don`t beleive what you just posted but then if you use the hcg over a long period, I`m being told it`s no longer good. I have 2 5000iu bottles and am puzzled on how to use this stuff... The more you read the more confusing it gets sometimes.

[Drummer]

I plan on doing the low dose during cycle thing next time. As far as your shot frequency, go every 4 days, or 200iu every other day. This should work fine. Be sure to run the hcg until the esters have run out of your system. (2-3 weeks longer than your last test e shot, for example)

~D~

[Drummer]

Here is a supporting article EF sent out today on HCG I hope this helps.


These studies show that postponing hCG usage until the end of a steroid cycle increases your need for a higher dose of hCG, and decreases your odds of a full recovery. As a consequence to using a higher dose of hCG at the end of a cycle, estrogen will be increased disproportionately to testosterone, which then causes further HPTA suppression (from high estrogen) while increasing the risk of gyno. (11) For example, high doses of hCG have been found to raise estradiol up to 165%, while only raising testosterone 140%. (11) Higher doses of hCG are also known to reduce LH receptor concentration and degrade the enzymes responsible for testosterone synthesis within the testes (12,13,19 ) -- the last thing someone wants during recovery. While these negative effects of hCG can be partly mitigated by the use of a SERM such as tamoxifen, it will create further problems associated with using a toxic SERM (covered in another article).

In light of the above evidence, it becomes obvious that we must take preventative measures to avoid this testicular degeneration. We must protect our testicular sensitivity. Besides, with hCG being so readily available, and such a painless shot, it makes you wonder why anyone wouldn’t use it on cycle.

Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG. (2) It is important that low-dose hCG is started before testicular sensitivity is reduced, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use. Also, it’s important to discontinue the hCG before you start PCT so your leydig cells are given a chance to re-sensitize to your body’s own LH production. (To help further enhance testicular sensitivity, the dietary supplement Toco-8 may be used)

A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a twice a week shot of 200iu hCG, or possibly a once a week shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hCG to mimic the body’s natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion. If you are starting hCG late in the cycle, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hCG ‘kick starting’ dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of LH absence, since the testes will be desensitized, thus requiring a higher dose. (ie. 40iu x 60 days = 2400iu HCG dose)

Recap:

For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 100iu hCG ED starting 7 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels, while initiating LH and FSH production from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Remember, recovery doesn’t begin until you are off hCG since your body will not release its own LH until the hCG has cleared the system.

In conclusion, we have learned that utilizing hCG during a steroid cycle will significantly prevent testicular degeneration. This helps create a seamless transition from “on cycle” to “off cycle” thus avoiding the post cycle crash


this sounds about right... except to stop 2 weeks before the esters clear... i would time it perfect for both the ester and the hcg to clear at once, then go straight to PCT.

~D~

[Benny62]

this sounds about right... except to stop 2 weeks before the esters clear... i would time it perfect for both the ester and the hcg to clear at once, then go straight to PCT.

~D~

I thought that was wierd to until I looked at graphs showing your hormonal levels after last injections, and LH levels bounce back much faster than test levels especially if you are running it during a cycle, therefore what they are saying to do t ....stop the HCG so you are more sensitive to your own LH levels makes sense to me.

[Drummer]

I thought that was wierd to until I looked at graphs showing your hormonal levels after last injections, and LH levels bounce back much faster than test levels especially if you are running it during a cycle, therefore what they are saying to do t ....stop the HCG so you are more sensitive to your own LH levels makes sense to me.

...hmmm... sounds interesting for sure - ive decided to take my 20 shots (500iu) of HCG starting yesterday for EOD instead of 20 days ED. I only have about 2 weeks left of gear and will run the HCG at this rate for now, ramp it up for the last 10 days and end it a bit earlier than the ester runs out of my body. Lets see how this works. I will be running the 100iu/day protocol for my next cycle, cause i know my boys shrink quite a bit on a test/deca cycle.

~D~