When the Juice stops working...

[Old-Dog]

Has anyone been on a cycle, where all is going well with great size, pumps and hardness with no appearent sides and a clear path to success when suddenly...It silps? Like a bad dream.

Over the past 3 weeks, I have watched my body lose all the benefits of my very expensive and lengthy cycle.

Weight loss, strength loss, defintion, density are just a few clear signs.

I quickly jumped on PCT and now look as if I never have been on a cycle.

Almost as though I crashed....Weird thing is, I have been around a long time and know my stuff but, this is new to me.

Feedback please;

[Kronis]

Did you switch compounds/labs half way through?

[canadianmuscle0803]

you need to supply more information for us to be able to determine what is really going on, if you were still on the cycle it would be really odd to loose all the benefits you got from it in that short period of time..

like Kronis said, did you switch compounds? labs? dosages? when did you feel like you crashed? I dont quite get how you could just crash like that unless your diet and training went to shit.. even when i finish a cycle i hold on to most if not all of my mass but i get soft and watery.. supply more info and we can go from there.

[Born2Juice4Ever]

I understand what you say: That you have been around a long while...and this tells me you know your shit at your own level.


I have to first and above all question your diet on a serious tone, it sounds to me as though you went completely flat.
Have you been losing a lot of water real fast.??


B2J

[Born2Juice4Ever]

you need to supply more information for us to be able to determine what is really going on, if you were still on the cycle it would be really odd to loose all the benefits you got from it in that short period of time..

like Kronis said, did you switch compounds? labs? dosages? when did you feel like you crashed? I dont quite get how you could just crash like that unless your diet and training went to shit.. even when i finish a cycle i hold on to most if not all of my mass but i get soft and watery.. supply more info and we can go from there.

We posted seconds apart I think....but we are on the same wave length:


-DIET
-TRAINING CONSISTENCY

are both key elements when coming off of a cycle.



B2J

[Old-Dog]

Thanks for the quick replies.

You know, I did do something different. I did change labs. Plus test compounds and even products.

I went from SUS, DECA, DBOL- 8 weeks. to CYP, EQ, TBOL- weeks 8-16.

SUS-750mg per week stacked with 400mg DECA and 50mg daily DBOL. 8wks

CYP-750mg per week stacked with 600mg EQ and 40mg TBOL daily. 8-16wks

Two seperate labs weeks 1-8 through 8-16. While running 5iu per day GH.

Diet was 3500-4000 daily. Proper sup's and vit's.

Only factors were; Stress and sleep loss.

Thoughts?

[BAM]

Well, you do get diminshing returns after 10-12 weeks, but it sounds to me like your 2nd brand of gear wasnt up to snuff.

PM me with the name of both brands plz.

[canadianmuscle0803]

im curious as to why you switched labs.. and if its too personal to post openly, can you tell me which lab you went to after the first 8 weeks.. pm this if you want..

[BAM]

....

[Kronis]

My first guess would be that the second lab (8-16) was either severely underdosed or completely bunk, specifically the test.

It would take a few weeks for the 1-8 test to wear off, and that could be delayed if the 2nd test had SOME in it.

Still sounds like there's some other factors at work here. 5iu GH should have been enough to keep you from losing your gains completely.

Stress and sleep loss can have massive negative repercussions, especially if you're natural or using underdosed/bunk gear.

I also wouldn't mind a PM with the lab names.

Run your PCT, then try again using only products from the 1-8 lab.

[Born2Juice4Ever]

My first guess would be that the second lab (8-16) was either severely underdosed or completely bunk, specifically the test.

It would take a few weeks for the 1-8 test to wear off, and that could be delayed if the 2nd test had SOME in it.

Still sounds like there's some other factors at work here. 5iu GH should have been enough to keep you from losing your gains completely.

Stress and sleep loss can have massive negative repercussions, especially if you're natural or using underdosed/bunk gear.

I also wouldn't mind a PM with the lab names.

Run your PCT, then try again using only products from the 1-8 lab.

:yeah

[Monka]

sounds like lab B might be under or your diet totally changed? due to stress? Well, also, since your running all these compounds to see a crash is weird and to ME sounds not gear related, as you have to many different things in you, sust/deca/tbol, just to make and if all bunk that's totally weird, you said stress, i know stress has affected me, but to how much extent? just weird.
See, i could see you not growing anymore since lab A was working, but the tbol you'd think would rip you up.. after you get to any weight you stop, plain and simple, i've done cycles where you dont' grow anymore.. but to have an oral cutter, to me , i'd still have to say that maybe diet came to play or were you training as hard\?

[waderow]

stress is a big part of things, but sounds fishy with lab b

[Old-Dog]

I am not one to bash on a product line, so, let me think about it for a day or so.

But, you wouldn't believe it unless you saw me pre weight loss to now.

Like I went through Cemo-Therapy or something. I am beyond disapointed.

Next cycle- 100% Pharmaceutical regardless of cost. I will never run UG again.

Even if they make a product for short guys to grow taller!

Thank you for the feedback, so what you guys are basically saying; Take a month or two off with PCT and start again?

I figure I might add some clen and a tiny T3 cycle just to get rid of the fat I added during the cycle, with my HCG and arim of course.

[Old-Dog]

Stress eh.

But can stress destroy an entire cycle? 15 lbs weight drop? Loss of size, hardness and overall muscle density?

[waderow]

cortisol is the worst thing for muscles besides calorie deficiency

[Monka]

cortisol is the worst thing for muscles besides calorie deficiency Thats EXACTLY what i was thinking!!! and YES, you have to many compond for ALL to be bunk, i think the test already made you big and cant see growth, but the tbol imo should help you loss weigh and ripp up hard. just that stress depending on how hard you were stessed, sleep/food/traing/ all that's also affected, i dunno.. just wierd..

[Old-Dog]

Is there a cortisol blocker?

Calories? I averaged 4000 cal a day. Clean.

I spoke to my MD and I have a bunch of blood work to do plus an ultra sound on my internal organs, liver, kidney's and gall bladder.

He knows about my training methods and has been around awhile. He wants to check the Gall Bladder due to it's ability to process fat. If, it isn't working or is blocked by stones then it causes all the organs to slow down, maybe that's the cause.

Either way, most respect for all the quick feedback and mature reponses.

[wrought]

Thanks for the quick replies.

You know, I did do something different. I did change labs. Plus test compounds and even products.

I went from SUS, DECA, DBOL- 8 weeks. to CYP, EQ, TBOL- weeks 8-16.

SUS-750mg per week stacked with 400mg DECA and 50mg daily DBOL. 8wks

CYP-750mg per week stacked with 600mg EQ and 40mg TBOL daily. 8-16wks

Two seperate labs weeks 1-8 through 8-16. While running 5iu per day GH.

Diet was 3500-4000 daily. Proper sup's and vit's.

Only factors were; Stress and sleep loss.

Thoughts?

3 weeks? Ok, assuming the gear isn't bunk...dropping the Dbol will result in you losing some water weight and will reduce your pumps, switching from sus to cyp causes a similar loss in water for me (the short esters in the sus make me hold more water)....there will also be a lag between when the effects of the deca becomes reduced and when the effects of the EQ start to be noticable..... but you should know that already if you've been around the block a couple of times and know how your body reacts to changing compounds, which makes things look bad for Lab B.

But on top of that stress and sleep loss will **** your gains up worse than screwing your diet up.....so don't discount that either.

[Old-Dog]

Sleep loss was a major factor. Stress was second. You hear about their effects but unless you experience them, if this being the case, then one cannot prepare for the damage they cause.

I do agree with the weight loss from switching compounds.

[big_luse]

I remember reading that if you run high amounts of gear eventually your cortisol levels will outpace your elevated androgen levels and put your body into a catabolic state (or at least plateau). AAS + intense training is stressful to the CNS --> when the CNS is under stress it releases stress hormones, namely cortisol, which when overproduced can wreak havoc on alot of shit.

[St]

If you switch compounds you should still have your sex drive,and pumps,and no strenght loss.
So will say this, but your sus,t-bol,and eq are Bunk.If you shoot a e-mail to anyone,and the word will get out 100% this will open up a can of Worms.Is it that lab that taste like Wings haha.

[Led Hed]

It's gotta be the gear. A drop in THAT much weight while still on can, to mean, only be one thing.

[420]

Were you running Global labs man?

[Rhinobolt10]

I had a powerlifting meet that really burned me out one time, afterwards I lost 15 pounds but kept running the same dosages for a month after... Just lost everything, strength was still fine... but 15 lbs gone, and I was sick for like a month.

That was a one time thing so far, I've never had that happen again, and I've never lost that much even when I go into PCT. So... it's not always the gear being bunk... could just be one of those things...

Also... I lose 15 lbs in may and June without fail every year... on cycle, off cycle whatever... that's the most stressful time of the year for me... and the weight just comes off... that's been 4 years in a row now... so, watch out for the stress and lack of sleep... they'll getcha..

[Old-Dog]

1st half of my cycle was Global. No problems.

2nd half I won't mention. However, the 2nd UG lab is well respected and I don't think it was the issue.

After all the suggestions. I feel a severe lack of rest, stress and the high volume of training and juice just crashed me.

Not to mentioned I used T3 at the begining of my cycle.

So, too many variables to pin-point.

I also, will research the coritsol levels. That is very intersting.

[nisser]

Hold on now....where in this cycle are you at now? Past 16 weeks, ie . finished?

You should have definetely seen NOTICABLE difference at the moment you switched your cycle. EQ would be doing nothing probably even at the point you finished your cycle so it was a complete waste...so really you were running on just TEST c at that point and tbol and you should have lost quite a bit of water weight once you stopped dbol.

15lbs isn't very meaningful unless you tell us your size. 200lb and you lose 15lbs? Ok that's somewhat big but if you're rolling around 250lb, dropping dbol/deca and then running on test only could definetely account for the loss especially when you consider sleep/stress issues.

[St]

What this thread is all about is how this lab is the best haha.
List me please haha.

[St]

What this thread is all about how Global labs is the best haha.
List me please haha.

[Kronis]

Hold on now....where in this cycle are you at now? Past 16 weeks, ie . finished?

You should have definetely seen NOTICABLE difference at the moment you switched your cycle. EQ would be doing nothing probably even at the point you finished your cycle so it was a complete waste...so really you were running on just TEST c at that point and tbol and you should have lost quite a bit of water weight once you stopped dbol.

15lbs isn't very meaningful unless you tell us your size. 200lb and you lose 15lbs? Ok that's somewhat big but if you're rolling around 250lb, dropping dbol/deca and then running on test only could definetely account for the loss especially when you consider sleep/stress issues.

I disagree, it would take a couple weeks for the compounds from the first 8 weeks to go through enough half-life cycles to stop being effective. It is very likely that he could be taking the new stuff for up to 3-5 weeks before everything went to shit.

[Old-Dog]

No, by all means no.

I just was concerned about my lack of power, weight loss and size.

No giving props to no one. I claimed I am never using UG again.

So, this was an informative look to where I made my mistake in the cycle and how not to make that mistake again.

I wouldn't have felt the EQ (Agreed) but I had planned on a 24 week cycle. So, I just came off on 17 due to the crash.

Anyways, thanks again all for the feedback.

[Old-Dog]

I was 198lbs but in 12 days (Around week 16-17) I went to 184lbs.
BF stayed low, but, my size and water went bye bye.

Anyway, PCT is kicking in so, I have learned where I went wrong.

On another note, Cortisol levels are being checked 2moro.

[SiLvErBaK]

all of these replies and everyone says practically the same thing.

If I were u i'd go get some blood work done bro.....you said"long and expensive cycle "as well as having used for many years. If it's been a while scince your last check up i'd get my ass into the doc, tell him wuts up and get everything checked out.

[waderow]

i am still not a big fan of telling doctors whats up.

i think you can go get blood work done without spilling the beans.

unless life insurance isn't something you ever want to have

[Big D]

i am still not a big fan of telling doctors whats up.

i think you can go get blood work done without spilling the beans.

unless life insurance isn't something you ever want to have

ya same here, from my experiences right when doctors know your on AAS they will blame your problem on that.

[bigpapapump2016]

Hey man, when was the last time you got a physical from your family physican???? I dont want to be the guy who says it, but you should definately get checked out by the doctor. Get a complete check up because from just what youve been saying, it warrants at least a check up from the doc. Just to be safe. Good luck bro

[Old-Dog]

Mid cycle. I was 100%, except my Test level was 56. lol

I just went back to my MD on Monday. He thinks it's one of two things,

Gall Bladder or Kidney. Otherwise, I have a huge sheet of blood, urine and other tests. Plus, ultra sound on my organs.

I'll keep you posted.

[Kronis]

Hope everything is alright dude. I'm really hoping it's the gear and not something more serious.

[hyperlite32]

I am very curious what UGL you used. Lets go with the lab you used for the first 8 weeks. Then if you decide, fill us in on who the "questionable" gear is made by!

[Born2Juice4Ever]

ya same here, from my experiences right when doctors know your on AAS they will blame your problem on that.

Unfortunately truthful.

PLUS a Doctor is to reveal your medical records to Gov agencies, in cases where you may be seeking employment.
Unless your potential employer is receptive and understand about juice..then you are pretty much ****ed out of a job :D



B2J

[natenator]

Unfortunately truthful.

PLUS a Doctor is to reveal your medical records to Gov agencies, in cases where you may be seeking employment.
Unless your potential employer is receptive and understand about juice..then you are pretty much ****ed out of a job :D



B2J
My Doctor knows. He doesn't write anything down. He knows that he can't stop me from this lifestyle so he'll do whatever it takes to ensure I am healthy through it even if that means once a month blood work.

He's a good guy. Younger Doc and works out as well.

[Born2Juice4Ever]

My Doctor knows. He doesn't write anything down. He knows that he can't stop me from this lifestyle so he'll do whatever it takes to ensure I am healthy through it even if that means once a month blood work.

He's a good guy. Younger Doc and works out as well.


You are lucky....my family Doctor of 15 years told me that he would not disclose, but that if that IF he was asked directly (steroid relevant) he could not bypass the truth.


I told him thanks--that I would not ever want him to lie.



B2J

[Old-Dog]

My MD is awsome.

Helped me out with a tonne of shit.


Naw, no worries Bro.

I am feeling better everyday since I have been off. Maybe the body just shut down and said enough is enough, who knows.

[Drummer]

Thanks for the quick replies.

You know, I did do something different. I did change labs. Plus test compounds and even products.

I went from SUS, DECA, DBOL- 8 weeks. to CYP, EQ, TBOL- weeks 8-16.

SUS-750mg per week stacked with 400mg DECA and 50mg daily DBOL. 8wks

CYP-750mg per week stacked with 600mg EQ and 40mg TBOL daily. 8-16wks

Two seperate labs weeks 1-8 through 8-16. While running 5iu per day GH.

Diet was 3500-4000 daily. Proper sup's and vit's.

Only factors were; Stress and sleep loss.

Thoughts?


theres your change right there... sounds pretty obvious...
^^^^^^^^^
Needed to up the calories too if you platuead. Test/deca/dbol is a terrific mass builder. As for the labs...

~DB~

[hyperlite32]

as for the labs...

[Van Zan]

I was 198lbs but in 12 days (Around week 16-17) I went to 184lbs.
BF stayed low, but, my size and water went bye bye.

Anyway, PCT is kicking in so, I have learned where I went wrong.

On another note, Cortisol levels are being checked 2moro.

Sorry my friend, I dont mean any disrespect with my next question.

How tall are you?

I saw in a earlier post that your now 35 and been on As since your early 20s. One would think that you would be a house after all those years on cycling and shit.

I'm just asking since junior from an other post was asking what would be the cost of HRT

Sorry guys I'm kinda drunk but still alive baby!!

[Old-Dog]

Fair enough.

I'm 5'6 and 184lbs with 8% BF.

184lbs of solid muscle on a 5'6 frame looks much bigger than it sounds.