MOntana Nelson 3-weeker

[ultrasafe]

Just putting this out there for discussion. What do you think?

NELSON MONTANA advocated, and still does advocate, cycles of 3 weeks in length. Modest doses are used of 1000mg per week TOTAL or less. Injectables and orals are used. Usually the injectable is in a long acting ester and not injected once per week but several times per week in smaller doses as he belives this is better for anabolism. Nelsons favorite steroid is PRIMO but he does like sust, d-bol, winny and anavar. He will not use or recommend vet steroids like EQ or tren. He does not recommend nandrolone.

Nelson believes three weeks will offers the best trade off between gains and sides. He thinks two weeks "on" is not quite enough time "on"
His favorite combo's are sust/d-bol or primo/anavar.

Here is an example of Nelsons three weeker.

WEEK ONE
DAY ONE sust 250mg, day 3 primo 100mg, day 5 primo 100mg, day 7 primo 100mg. 25 of d-bol in divided doses per day.

WEEK TWO
Test cyp or enanthate 100mg, day 10 primo 100mg and day 12 primo 100mg, day 14 primo 100mg. 25 of winny per day

WEEK THREE
day 16 primo 100, day 18 primo 100, day 20 primo 100 and day 22 primo 100 and also anavar 25 per day

Notice how the cycle uses weaker orals as the weeks go on and the non aromatizable and weker primo . This is to limit inhibition to some degree AND also to limit water gain for good post cycle lean tissue realization

WEEK FOUR ...OPTIONAL
25 of proviron for 5 days and only in the am. This is to help with sex drive, prevent estrogen back lash and act as a mild form of a taper. 25 mg only done in the am is not very inhibitory. I like its ability to ward off estrogen rebound post cycle.

Nelson does not believe that Clomid is necessary after his cycles and may actually cause harm in some men.

The above is a complicated cycle that is not cheap but Nelson thinks it is the ultimate short cycle. Similar but cheaper short cycle s can be based on the MONTANA METHOD.

[ultrasafe]

Ok OK! But at least try to keep an open mind here, especially for athletes and non BB.

Keeping with his layout I thought of this cycle. NPP and Test Prop could range from 50-100mg. Remember his theory is Trying to be SAFE by achieving gains slowly and safely. His does not like nandralone but i thought NPP would fit nice here. The test Prop would be used to offset the HPTA issues. Again just trying to run along side his theory.

WEEK ONE
DAY ONE (primo 100mg NPP 50mg TPROP 50mg), day 3 (primo 100mg NPP 50mg TPROP 50mg), day 5 (primo 100mg NPP 50mg TPROP 50mg), day 7 (primo 100mg NPP 50mg TPROP 50mg).

WEEK TWO
(primo 100mg NPP 50mg TPROP 50mg), day 10 (primo 100mg NPP 50mg TPROP 50mg), and day 12 (primo 100mg NPP 50mg TPROP 50mg), , day 14 (primo 100mg NPP 50mg TPROP 50mg),

WEEK THREE
day 16 (primo 100mg NPP 50mg TPROP 50mg), day 18 (primo 100mg NPP 50mg TPROP 50mg), day 20 (primo 100mg NPP 50mg TPROP 50mg), and day 22 (primo 100mg NPP 50mg TPROP 50mg), and also anavar 25 per day

To Keep with his philosophy add 30mg of var each day.

WEEK FOUR ...OPTIONAL
25 of proviron for 5 days and only in the am. This is to help with sex drive, prevent estrogen back lash and act as a mild form of a taper. 25 mg only done in the am is not very inhibitory. I like its ability to ward off estrogen rebound post cycle.

[theboss]

seems kinda dumb to me...

how about this... 1cc SUSTANON EOD for 1 month.

[JonnyO]

Doesnt look too complicated to me.

The doses of Primo are too low to notice much of anything.

The use of 3 different orals, for one week each makes no sense either.

This is not a good way to make good gains. How long does he advocate to stay off after these 3 week cycles?

I can see blasting with some higher doses for 3 weeks then cruising/maintenace doses after that, but this way montana suggests makes no sense to me.

Just my two cents.

[nitrous]

agreed that doesnt make much sense

[Ritch]

I can see blasting with some higher doses for 3 weeks then cruising/maintenace doses after that, but this way montana suggests makes no sense to me.

Just my two cents.

When that ariticle first came out (around 1998-99 or so) 1000mg WAS considered alot.

My first cycle though was the 2 weeks on 4 weeks off mehod by Bill Roberts using 1000 of prop and 40mg of dianabol a day. There was a brigde phase with low dose dianabol a.m only. People noticed the weight gain that occured on me. I did 2 weeks on 4 weeks off, then did anothe 2 weeks on 4 weeks off. I think Bill Roberts was saying you could even decrease the weeks off to 3 or even 2 with the proper ancillaries.

The way off seing it, is to ask yourself the following question: Who do you think will make the most progress in the following situation? The guy who does 12 weeks on 12 weeks off, or the multiple 2 weekers over 24 weeks. It`s an interesting question of which the answer was never really found out as not many guys fell into the whole 2 weeks cycles. But Dan Duchaine was preaching the benefits of such a cycle in his hay day, so the idea itself is not all that dumb I find.

I may actually try it again with shorter off cycles using hcg. Only if what I have planned in the new year dosen`t work going the natty route with some top notch supps I will be using. I`m not looking to gain 40lbs, so it could be a good option.

[bongd]

Unnecessary complication. If you really want to do a short blast that's effective, run test suspension twice a day with an oral of your choice - I'd recommend var or tbol. Just a few weeks, then come off.

You'll still marginal encounter suppression. After a few weeks your body is just beginning to ramp down it's natural test production, so it won't be brutal. If you're absolutely anal then you could run some HCG and clomid to really boost LH and FSH, but it's unnecessary. The body does a fantastic job reaching homeostasis and we often overlook that.

All this jibba jabba is just to divert peoples' attention and pique their interest. It's cliché but 9 times out of 10 the simple route is the best one.

[JifeLacket]

sprint/power athletes run these short cycles and they seem to work wonders.. The doses are lower too, athletes are not BBers though and AAS is not used to do what BBers are looking for generally.

[ultrasafe]

sprint/power athletes run these short cycles and they seem to work wonders.. The doses are lower too, athletes are not BBers though and AAS is not used to do what BBers are looking for generally.

Very true ^^^

[Ritch]

Ben Johnson`s coach in an interview said sprinters use about 2500mg of steroids.... In a whole year!

[daande]

Ben Johnson`s coach in an interview said sprinters use about 2500mg of steroids.... In a whole year!

Ya probably 2500mg of anavar or something like that. Plus probably 2500iu of hGH.

[Ritch]

Ya probably 2500mg of anavar or something like that. Plus probably 2500iu of hGH.

So what guys use 100mg of anavar a day. That`s a little over 3 weeks of what a bodybuilder typically uses. I doubt these guys use over 4-6 iu`s of gh a day. They`re the crème de la crème when it comes to genes and receptors to the drugs they use.

[JifeLacket]

I'll let the picture do all the talking folks

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_urSQl6wUA5g/SKRpeYXZd9I/AAAAAAAADC8/FTOx0_pvpLM/s1600-h/Robert+Forstemann.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0bzebeP0zufi7/610x.jpg

[Ritch]

^^^ Is that guy a cyclist? Or does he so some other sport. Dude is very built for a cyclist. I guess he is a cyclist in a sense that he "cycles!" Snarf, snarf...

[Chaps]

I don't like the cycles laid out if i was going to do short cycles i'd do them like author L. rea has laid out in building the perfect beast 4 weeks then onto a pure anabolic phase (think igf-1, insulin, gh) then cortisol/estrogen suppression phase (hcg, clomid, cytadren, aromasin) then back on. 4 week phases of each, sounds far more logical than what Montana has laid out.

[JifeLacket]

We are power lifters/100m sprinters on bikes... that guy is the lead out man for germany in the team sprint (you know the velodrome, the oval bike track).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skAaRP6UdiA

not tour de france steez but actually a few sprinters have made it to the pro road circuit but first they had to atrophy 50lb of muscle :p

edit: he is probably one of the biggest guys though, the germans just bread him for starts as he is no good for anything else really.. too much muscle for longer sprint events and you dont need to be that big to be as fast as him a few guys are faster and they are only 175lb

[Ritch]

I don't like the cycles laid out if i was going to do short cycles i'd do them like author L. rea has laid out in building the perfect beast 4 weeks then onto a pure anabolic phase (think igf-1, insulin, gh) then cortisol/estrogen suppression phase (hcg, clomid, cytadren, aromasin) then back on. 4 week phases of each, sounds far more logical than what Montana has laid out.

Yeah but it`s not very realistic for many to follow his cycles as lot`s the stuff he advocates to use is impossible to find. And using stuff like igf-1, insulin and gh is a whole other ball game. Not comparing chirstmas oranges with chirstmas oranges here at all...

[Chaps]

Look into Building The Perfect Beast, should be able to get it on isohunt, it's by Author L. Rea now HE has great ideas on 4 week phases, max androgen, anabolic, cortisol/estrogen suppression really interesting stuff

[Ritch]

Look into Building The Perfect Beast, should be able to get it on isohunt, it's by Author L. Rea now HE has great ideas on 4 week phases, max androgen, anabolic, cortisol/estrogen suppression really interesting stuff

I may look more into his stuff. The little info I know of him was what I read in MD.

[Chaps]

Yeah but it`s not very realistic for many to follow his cycles as lot`s the stuff he advocates to use is impossible to find. And using stuff like igf-1, insulin and gh is a whole other ball game. Not comparing chirstmas oranges with chirstmas oranges here at all...

Most of the stuff can be subbed out for somethign else, like cytadren could be replaced with say 7-hydroxy dhea which is over the counter in the states. You could just do the 4 week max androgen phase then go straight to a a 4 week pct with somethign to squash cortisol then back on.

[Rhinobolt10]

interesting stuff I think.

Something that I was actually thinking about lately, and something I would like to actually try and give an honest run with before I make any judgements.

[Ritch]

interesting stuff I think.

Something that I was actually thinking about lately, and something I would like to actually try and give an honest run with before I make any judgements.

Just curious which you find interesting as we now seem to be talking about Nelson Montana`s theory`s, Bill Roberts theory (the one I tried) and William`s theory.