concussions and fighting in the nhl

[muscle_dummy]

recently there's been alot of debate on whether or not fighting should be allowed in the nhl, and also alot of discussion on the increasing number of concussions. Well, in my opinion the game is faster, and the players stronger than ever before, which leaves alot of room for injury. But, keep yous heads up, and problem solved! like what're you gonna do, take out hitting ????? Same with fighting, fighting beeen a part of the game forever , to take it out would be ridiculous. I hate these suits that complain about fighting and the game in general being too rough. I mean **** if I wanted a passive aggressive game i'd watch soccer. Or basketball. What's your opinions on this subject? thanks for listening .

[#8]

Like you said, the guys are much bigger, stronger, and faster than ever before. The 180lb guys in the NHL would easily rival the 200+lb tough guys of the 70's or 80's in my opinion. The game is at such an elite level that landing punches and hits has become extremely dangerous at the current speed the game is being played at. I really have no good answer for you. The only thing I can think of is dialing back the protective equipment (except the helmet) substantially to inflict more pain and damage on the hitter so as to possibly reduce the all out recklessness of full speed charges intent on injuring another. If you knew it was gonna hurt you bad too, you might slow up a bit. Thats my logic behind that idea.

[cog]

No fighting= nasty stick work.

[Talo]

They should make the ice bigger so that there is more room for these guys to skate around.

The equipment has come along way too , it's like these guys are football players on skates.

[THL]

hockeywould be so boring without fighting. period.

[Hosehead]

Like you said, the guys are much bigger, stronger, and faster than ever before. The 180lb guys in the NHL would easily rival the 200+lb tough guys of the 70's or 80's in my opinion. The game is at such an elite level that landing punches and hits has become extremely dangerous at the current speed the game is being played at. I really have no good answer for you. The only thing I can think of is dialing back the protective equipment (except the helmet) substantially to inflict more pain and damage on the hitter so as to possibly reduce the all out recklessness of full speed charges intent on injuring another. If you knew it was gonna hurt you bad too, you might slow up a bit. Thats my logic behind that idea.

Exactly. Don Cherry has been saying this for years. The equipment is like armour. Give everyone those shitty elbow and shoulder pads that Mark Messier used and the head hunters would think twice about hurting their shoulders. I'd also take out the instigator penalty and touch icing. But yeah, the players are all 200+ lbs, weight train and can skate like the wind now. The human head hasn't made any progression in that time. Fighting has very little to do with head injuries. There are a few that have ended careers (Kyprios) and without question some enforcers have had numerous concussions that have affected their play and lives long term. But they get hundreds of thousands of dollars to take the risk , all the while nailing lingerie models and strippers. Tough life.

[razorsedge]

I won't get into my experience and background on this but I will offer some insight from the other side....the side of a participant and not the fan or parent.

First, there are very few injuried that result in man games lost as a result of fighting...I didn't say none...but very few comparatively with what is causing the concussions. Injuries in fights are usually shoulder injuries, hand injuries etc....but every now and then there are concussions and even worse but very rarely. Further, think back a few years when Probert "et al" were fighting. How many staged fights do you remember in 80s and 90s....the face off chat before the fight, back off and drop the gear and go....again...rare. The fight was one that occurred for one reason or another in the flow of the game and there was adrenalin making both guys go and struggle to survive. Nothing....nothing more humbling than get into your first exhibition game as a pro and trying to make an imprssion....setting up for the face off and saying, "Hey Probie, lets go" and he just looks at you and smiles and responds...skate around a bit first kid and I'll see you down the ice if I have time...what do you say or do then. Believe me, you don't really know what to do and you're headed for the bench first chance you get. Adrenalin prevented tons of injuries...now with the staged fight, especially in major junior, it is the challenge at the face off, back off. drop the gloves, unsnap your helmet as you can't take it off without extra penalty and fight...no emotion, no competitive juices flowing, no adrenalin...huge diff and if any of you have ever had the pleasure, let me hear it and I guarantee you this is your opinion as well.

Now, the other injuries...as stated above, no fighting, more stick work. The stick work is bad and it stems from several factors. First, if a pro played college hockey in the US he wore a full cage until probably 22 yrs old at every level except maybe Tier 2 junior...go to a US college hockey game and see where these caged up guys carry their sticks. It's stupid...see how many times you see a stick at shoulder ht or worse and there is no call..thats college hockey for you though. They get to pro and they have had the stick high their whole career...hard to break that habit. It isn't their fault...its what they have done for 20 yrs.

The hits from behind...when there was no helmets, there were few hits from behind and I know, the game is faster and bigger now....helmets arrived and people got a little more care free...and right after this the hard shell gear arrived....and then you further add the face shield on the helmet...everyone is feeling pretty secure and they take liberties which they expect others to take on them if they expose themselves...its a mental thing...a lack of respect thing. You spend any time in any major junior room after a dirty hit and everyone is trying to justify it...when they know it was bullshit as they know there is no accountability except now in pro you get the suspension happy guy slapping wrists. How do you stop or curb this...can't...its an attitude of arrogance....UNTIL....a tough guy is involved and then the prima donna minor hockey star who worked his way up and takes cheap shots or is yapping all the time really doesn't want to play the next period and it shows in his play...arrive a little late at the puck on the wall all the time or spin away rather than try to make the play...gutless chickens.

The fighting keeps these guys a little honest...

Now, the other major factor is this...5-6 years ago guys were getting concussions that were not diagnosed and playing with them...as lots could now but the baseline test is everywhere. A guy gets rocked and the first thing they want to do is give him a baseline test...you never even heard that word in the room 5 yrs ago and now its even in minor hockey dressing rooms...cmon...its a sign of the times. If you have a bit of dizziness after a hit...baseline est...oh..concussed...out for 3-4 games...its ****ed.

So...fighting is not to blame for the concussions and for those who stand on a soap box and say get it out of the game...you never played the game...at least passed your 16th birthday. And I don't mean the old timers hockey league..where guys who actually never played the game are playing and causing havoc with their stick as they look like a helicopter with it so high and all over the place...and you all know these guys.

[cog]

Good post Razor.Anybody else here remember the days when John Ferguson would come out to settle the matter for the Canadians?

[Hosehead]

Good post Razor.Anybody else here remember the days when John Ferguson would come out to settle the matter for the Canadians?

You must be ancient man lol. Generally regarded as the toughest man of his generation. Montreal needed him. Practically everyone on those teams were hall of famers.

[cog]

You must be ancient man lol. Generally regarded as the toughest man of his generation. Montreal needed him. Practically everyone on those teams were hall of famers.

I am ancient,I'm 55.It used to be good,two players,maybe somebody picking on your sniper.Back then,a guy like Ferguson could still come on to the ice during trouble,the camera would always catch him just as he was going through the door.Everybody knew what was coming,he would have such a serious look on his face,and skate slowly towards the troublemaker....