Printable View
Hi guys,
I was looking at making some changes to my pct. Im thinking of running nolva with aromasin instead of clomid, along with caber, hcg and hmg. But while doing some "google research" I came accross a forum where they were talking about this oral "ostarine" and how it's great for bridging cycles and keeping/gaining lean mass. Is this some bs marketing ploy being planted in forums? Is it a legal research drug? Is it a peptide? or something you buy at gnc?
What has proven much more effective is running nolvadex concurrently with clomid and HCG. HMG is used to improve sperm production and is not as effective at PCT as HCG because it is FSH dominant. Caber wont do much at all for PCT. Ostarine used to be the rage when it came out but I have seen no documented research showing any significant muscle gains...Ive also run it a few times with no results.
P
I was told cabergoline is proper pct after tren or even var, which is why I'll run it. Why is clomid more effective than aromasin? I have both. Also i picked up hcg this weekend to run with hmg. I'll skip the ostarine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Praetorian
Cabergoline is used to control progesterone from deca or tren in some individuals...it is not a pct product. Aromasin is a third generation anti aromatase which prevents the conversion of testosterone to estrogen thus keeping estrogen levels normal. Aromasin is used successfully during PCT for that reason as HCG does illicit a strong testosterone response and some can get elevated estrogen from that which results in a negative feedback loop shutting hpta down. Clomid is a SERM not an AI and its main purpose is to act on the pituitary to awaken it and illicit an LH response. HMG is primarily used to increase sperm production not testosterone as it is FSH dominant.
P
i know more then one top 5 national competitors that all use ostarine and swear by it.... may be no research currently but according to broscience and the top guys in canada that do it also from person experience i suggest it....
Anecdotal evidence and broscience is what allows the supplement industry to make billions.
P
your right, but unfortunately the old boys club is quickly finding out more and more that some of these new methods are more effective and thats why you have a younger generation of freaks...... blp just posted another great article on the benefits of ostarine..... i dont have all the facts but im sure prae you would have some good chats since he does beleive in it...annd beleives in many of the other peptides for that matter.
Thanks for the response guys. So I should include aromasin in my pct since it acts differently than nolva and clomid and can apparently potentially raise test levels back up 60% Peptides seem like a hit or miss situation, some guys swear by them once then find a genuine lab source. Other people get duds, fakes, and it ruins they're peptide experience. Personally i like gh all year around. But i spend the money on the real deal. I guess for now I'll stick to what I know works.
Prae, recent studies on both cabergoline and Mirapex have proven increase in sex drive as well as other sexual benefits on males. We all know libido is a large part of the recovery. I don't see harm in taking it. If you have time give this a glance.
http://www.tharc.com/articles/Cabergoline.php.html
Melatonan 2 and cialis also increase sex drive...that in no way has any relation to increasing LH, FSH or testosterone. Correlation is not causation. HGH however does assist and if you can afford it i would recommend it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bountyhunter
P
I've read thousands of pages of info including everything by DatBtrue, used most of them and monitored many users on them and saw no significant anabolic effects. There are many reasons various people "believe" in them...I'm sure you can figure out why. If peptides work so well and all the young guys are using them where are all these big guys? I don't know of one pro that consistently uses them, not saying they havent experimented but when you are spending your hard earned money are you going to buy guaranteed results from HGH or AAS or are you going to spend it on the possibility of maybe something happening with peptides.Quote:
Originally Posted by InkedSailor
P
I used Ostarine a few years back after doing a traditional PCT that Prae prescribed for me and I did like it. But I think any increase I had in sex drive was from the HCG , Nolva , Clomid and HMG that I had run just before the Ostarine. I am currently running Ostarine with 200mg test e, 300mg EQ and 2IU GH and have virtually zero sex drive . Everything else is good though.
That's the other issue...question...have you tried ostarine or any peptide for that matter Answer: "oh yes ostarine and xxx peptide worked wonders for me..i gained 15lbs" question: on just ostarine and xxx? Answer: oh no i was running 1000mg tst + 100tren EOD and 100mg anadrol weekly plus 6iu of gh ED but i could definitely see the difference because of the ostarine...ok!
Ostarine has gone through phase two trials for cancer patients and comparing any significant statistical increase in lean body mass of a cancer patient does not translate into pounds of muscle gained by a healthy bodybuilder.
P
If you have zero sex drive why don't you increase your test. You should be running more test than any other substance, or just run test alone with gh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hosehead
Quote:
Originally Posted by bountyhunter
Cuz I'm rehabbing a serious elbow injury. Anything over 300mg test buggers up collagen synthesis.
i run it for my pct, now i have friends that are pros that do the exact same, so this isnt just one exact product from one exact company, so there really is no invested interest, but the idea of staying anabolic and not losing on a pct and still maintaining to gain to me is very interesting since most people dont beleive u can gain let alone maintain everything u gained coming off cycle.... Im working with a friend right now that turned pro on peptides with his cycle,,,, this was no gh and no insulin..... to me this is fantastic and does offer a cheaper alternative because lets be real here today standards at Canadian nationals nobody is turning pro or doing very well without gh...... argue with me if you want but its a farce if you think they do without. Actually now that all the negativity is here against peps ill be starting a blog here of my off season "off cycle" that will consist of peps and ostarine. and like my trainer i guarantee i will gain....
Sounds interesting.GH and insulin use has not been exactly kind to the health of many.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InkedSailor
Most guys at the National level use HGH yes...in fact most guy at regional and provincial shows use HGH. That being said is it necessary for them to use it, no. Does it help yes (if its real, most is not) but it really depends on the level of genetic disposition the person has to it...in other words those with better genetics will gain more those with not so good will gain less. A recent athlete turned pro in 2013 whom I know and competed against did use peptides yes and I know the source and used the same exact ones. Did the peptide use allow him to turn pro, no. Was he using other things concurrently yes. Can you measure any effect from the peptides during this cycle, no because there were too many other variables. Another athlete whom I know well and competed against at the 2010 Nationals turned pro on less gear then most level one guys and most would laugh at the dosages not to mention absolutely no HGH. This was achievable because of the gifted genetics this person was born with. So to say you need HGH to compete at Nationals is not true. What you need to compete at any level will be due to your genetic capability and what you are able to do prior to using any ergogenics. Most guys prioritize their cycles as opposed to put any priority into nutrition or training. Are aas necessary to compete at the National level, yes. Is HGH necessary, no...does it help, yes...if its real.
You assume too much, there is no negativity here against peps...what their is is a lack of any credible evidence to prove otherwise. I would love for peptides to work as well as hgh or aas because one they are legal to obtain and two their are not that expensive. However until guys start seeing significant gains that is not going to happen. The other issue is most guys using HGH are not actually using HGH but some type of peptide due to the fact that most non pharmaceutical HGH is just relabeled peptides. Thus the limited gains are not due to bad hgh is just not hgh to begin with.
P
Some recent info on Ostarine I found...
Use tried 12.5mg Ostarine ED and nothing else for 7 weeks.
Blood work taken before and after...
Total test: 565 (348-1197)
Free test: 14.4 (8.7-25.1)
LH: 1.9 (1.7-8.6)
FSH: 1.6 (1.5-12.4)
Estradiol: 18.0 (7.6-42.6)
Cholesterol: 154
Trigs: 51
HDL: 67
LDL: 77
VLDL: 10
------------------
--------------------
(no free testosterone this draw)
Total test: 140 (Low)
LH: 1.5 (Low)
FSH: 1.0 (Low)
Estradiol: 11.8
Cholesterol: 140
Trigs: 85
HDL: 37 (Low)
LDL: 86
VLDL: 17
As you can see fairly substantial HPTA suppression.
A comment by Dr Michael Scally:
"Assuming no cycles were done between the baseline [565] and the SARM, there is no need for a PCT. The HPTA will restore quickly. The lower HDL indicates it was an androgen. So moch for those that advocate a SARM PCT!"
Thus not something I would recommend for PCT.
P
The EQ is most likely the culprit of your lost libido.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hosehead
P