Ab Training!

Hey CB! Back with another training question. So, one of the first posts I ever put on this site was about training my obliques. Eventually the thread deviated off into abdominal training and you guys told me that training my abs bodyweight was the best way to really bring them up! Well I did this for a few months and now that I'm cutting I get to see the fruits of my labour! I'm really digging the look at the moment, my serratus branches off into my abs making that really cool longitudinal line across my stomach area which I think looks amazing! I find though that my abs are still quite small and weak looking compared to all my other muscles; not so badly that it throws off the proportions of my physique but enough that people are actually inquiring if I am a physique competitor. Besides the fact that these people have probably never seen a bodybuilder or physique competitor in real life, I can't help but agree that my abs do need much more work. I'm a bit surprised at how slow they are growing to be honest, I've improved my numbers in all the big lifts by so much (squats improved almost 100 lbs and deadlift 35 lbs added to my max) without any belts or assistance.

What I've been doing is 4 sets of leg raises for 20 reps on a bench. I do this for 4 out of the 5 days I go to the gym. I take 1 second to bring my legs up and 1 second to go down. Even though the contraction feels great I can't help but wonder if I did weighted dips if it would work better? I know I've only done this for a short period of time and it was nearing the end of my bulk, and hitting my abs with higher volume certainly helped but it seems like it got them 'shredded' and not thick, you know what I mean? The biggest uncertainty is I'm not sure if I should just keep improving my big lifts and my abs will eventually catch up (this is what I assume you guys would recommend me to do) or if I should try out weighted abdominal movements? I've heard of a few people who say they got their thick abs off years of doing weighted crunches and improving their lift numbers. My goal is to have abs so thick that if somebody decides to punch me in the stomach, they'd break their hand! :p Hahaha! Just kidding but I do long for very thick abdominals. Has anyone had success with weighted ab movements for thickness? Or do you all attribute your brick wall abs to bodyweight movements? Please let me know!

Thanks!

-Primal

The only things I do for my abs is beltless squats and deads PLUS weighted crunches with a rope. There is also a cool weighted ab machine at the gym where you kind of do a semi pullover from a seated position. I think these moves cover all my ab needs. Having said that , I carry enough body fat in my abdominal area that they are only visible when pumped or flexed. I think the only reason why I can see them at all with a higher body fat % is that they are very thick from the weighted exercises and aforementioned squats and deads. Having visible abs has never been a goal but I'm quite sure that they would look formidable if I would just lose the weight. I do recall that when I had bowel surgery years ago that the surgeon later told me he had to do a lot of cutting to get through my abdominal wall. I attribute that to the weighted ab moves and squats. The ****er left an awful scar and from that point on it looked like a ****ing mess anyhow. So IMO I'd take the opportunity to do weighted moves, but not for the obliques.

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Originally Posted by Primal

Hey CB! Back with another training question. So, one of the first posts I ever put on this site was about training my obliques. Eventually the thread deviated off into abdominal training and you guys told me that training my abs bodyweight was the best way to really bring them up! Well I did this for a few months and now that I'm cutting I get to see the fruits of my labour! I'm really digging the look at the moment, my serratus branches off into my abs making that really cool longitudinal line across my stomach area which I think looks amazing! I find though that my abs are still quite small and weak looking compared to all my other muscles; not so badly that it throws off the proportions of my physique but enough that people are actually inquiring if I am a physique competitor. Besides the fact that these people have probably never seen a bodybuilder or physique competitor in real life, I can't help but agree that my abs do need much more work. I'm a bit surprised at how slow they are growing to be honest, I've improved my numbers in all the big lifts by so much (squats improved almost 100 lbs and deadlift 35 lbs added to my max) without any belts or assistance.

What I've been doing is 4 sets of leg raises for 20 reps on a bench. I do this for 4 out of the 5 days I go to the gym. I take 1 second to bring my legs up and 1 second to go down. Even though the contraction feels great I can't help but wonder if I did weighted dips if it would work better? I know I've only done this for a short period of time and it was nearing the end of my bulk, and hitting my abs with higher volume certainly helped but it seems like it got them 'shredded' and not thick, you know what I mean? The biggest uncertainty is I'm not sure if I should just keep improving my big lifts and my abs will eventually catch up (this is what I assume you guys would recommend me to do) or if I should try out weighted abdominal movements? I've heard of a few people who say they got their thick abs off years of doing weighted crunches and improving their lift numbers. My goal is to have abs so thick that if somebody decides to punch me in the stomach, they'd break their hand! :p Hahaha! Just kidding but I do long for very thick abdominals. Has anyone had success with weighted ab movements for thickness? Or do you all attribute your brick wall abs to bodyweight movements? Please let me know!

Thanks!

-Primal

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You need to do something that involves rom.People that have a really flat abdominal wall with great abs from just deads and squats are fairly rare.

Check out Ben Pakulski Ab Training 101 on youtube.What he says about pulling in the abdominal wall is important.

I would think the ROM for leg raises would be pretty good though right? I even target my lower abs by putting my tailbone on the bench and like I said above the contraction is great! I'm just unsure over time if this will build overall thickness. Lots of articles and people say that bodyweight is enough, but there are also tons of other people on the spectrum with abs that look thicker than the wall of China who say that it was from years of weighted ab movements. I will check out the Ben Pakulski thing though, sounds cool!

-Primal

Weighted crunches on a machine are good.

Dragon flags. Hands down most amazing ab work out ever. Do these after dead lift day and after squat day.

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Originally Posted by Want2lift

Dragon flags. Hands down most amazing ab work out ever. Do these after dead lift day and after squat day.

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I have yet to find any one movement that upon regular use guarantees you won't get sore doing a different workout.

I like dragon flags and planks. I find the ab stuff where your core is engaged for a longer period of time are far more taxing and beneficial.

No hip action in that one.No true core strength without the hips.

Actually found a really good alternative ab movement now. Weighted GHD sit ups. You get the stretch of 180 degrees from the floor up and and weighted its perfect combination between stretching and contraction while overloading. The best ab exercise I have felt and done yet!

-Primal

GHD sit ups are another staple movement that really stretch the lower abdomen and hips.Not too sure about the added weight.The cross fit guys go higher reps,warlock said he knew some chiros that had encountered clients that had injured themselves with this movement,I kinda feel my way down to the bottom.

^^ Yes. The GHD is all I use for direct ab training.

Try doing a TVA during your rest periods while doing a lower back extension. I find ab training to most effective and efficient when the lower back is trained at the same time.

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Originally Posted by #8

^^ Yes. The GHD is all I use for direct ab training.

Try doing a TVA during your rest periods while doing a lower back extension. I find ab training to most effective and efficient when the lower back is trained at the same time.

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Interesting,don't believe I have ever tried seriously combining them.

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Originally Posted by #8

^^ Yes. The GHD is all I use for direct ab training.

Try doing a TVA during your rest periods while doing a lower back extension. I find ab training to most effective and efficient when the lower back is trained at the same time.

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Hmm what's a TVA? Yeah I'm doing that now! I put abs specifically on my back day so I do deadlifts, a few accessories and then straight to the GHD. I don't go all the way down to the floor when I have the weight. You lose tension when you get past horizontal so it is useless for the abs. I only go down to the floor when I just do bodyweight and that is just mostly at the beginning for the stretch. What I like about the GHD is that unlike a bench, your back doesn't make contact to anything as it lowers down, there is literally nothing there to support you. Whereas as on a bench, the lower you go the more the back makes contact with the bench thereby providing you with a surface to take the tension off and even rest on if you wanted too.

-Primal

a TVA is where you suck in your gut as hard as you can for as long as you can.

It targets the muscles underneath your visible abs and keeps your core tight.

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Originally Posted by #8

a TVA is where you suck in your gut as hard as you can for as long as you can.

It targets the muscles underneath your visible abs and keeps your core tight.

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Oh wow, sounds like something you would do to train for a vacuum pose! I'll give it a shot for sure!

I've got another question about abs and I hope it doesn't come off as stupid. So if you focus on your abs in a direct sit up motion all the time (whether that be sit ups, rollouts, GHD ie. any ab exercise not involving the twisting of the core) when you cut down, will your midsection look unproportional? I was just wondering because when I cut down this year, my abs and my serratus tied together really nicely but my abs weren't 'popping' yet you know what I mean? Like I don't have much thickness to them yet. I plan on really building up my abs this year but I'm just curious should I put movements like woodchoppers and Russian twists in to activate my serratus and obliques and keep maintain or build them up to where my abs will be at? What do you guys think?

Thanks!

-Primal

The large diameter ab wheels work upper abs a little harder.Leg raise in a station or on the rings hit lower.Side bends on your side where you bend in the middle.Or you can take one handle on a stack start straight and bend to the side while keeping your back straight.Lots of things to do,trx reverse pike ect....twisting motion suspended on the trx is a killer.Front flexion laying on your back with a padded bar on your forehead,your trunk usually curves a bit,got very sore abs top to bottom a few times in a row doing these.Paddling.

Awesome thanks cog!

-Primal