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Just curious as to everyones thoughts on cortisol blockers when cutting?? I have read reviews saying they are good and they are bad. Naturally I am a stressed person so I was thinking they would benefit me. I am not looking to block cortisol completely, just lower it at its peak times like in the morning.
What an amazing coincidence, I was reading a flex mag article today written by Jim Stoppani and Shawn Perine. Great article and they mention that because cortisol levels are highest in the morning, a great way to lower them is to drink a whey protein shake right after you get up. :yeahQuote:
Originally Posted by SteveMan
I take a scoop of whey and 5g of glutamine upon rising. I also take vitamin C and a B complex vitamin that is suppose to control cortisol.
Since cortisol is at its peak when you wake, then doing cardio on an empty stomach first thing in the morning seems pretty foolish.
freebsd: insulin inhibits cortisol the best, therefore,what you actually want is not the protein, but the insulin spike through sugar. add 2-4 tbspn of sugar to your wake up shake, along with your protein.
don't worry about messing with your calorie intake, its 1st thing in the morning so you'll have burned it off by the evening
you should also do the same for your post-workout shake
Grapes+ is another great antioxidant (and cheap too)
All your vitamins (e,c)
ecaneicea
steveman: youre supposed to do the morning cardio AFTER you take your morning shake. empty stomach just means no bacon eggs and cheese. you can get low carb whey if it is an issue.
just stick with the sugar in the morning, thats quite enough to control the initial spike.
ps. cortisol levesl peak ~20 mins after you wake up.
Read somewhere the whole cortisol thing is BS bb'er marketing. Sure stress will kill muscle, but you seriously think these cortisol supp's will prevent muscle loss under a divorce, death etc?
Hey legaliz3, why didn't you write that article? :lickQuote:
Originally Posted by legaliz3
Thanks for the update, I'll give it a try.
K, I'm definately not an expert here, but I have a somewhat high stress job and store fat mainly in my stomach, so I've looked into cortisol as much as I can. I try to read whatever stuff I can find from Poliquins biosignature, and for those that haven't heard of it, it's basically just taking a body fat test with calipers, and from the readings he can tell your hormonal balance. IE, high belly fat readings cortisol. OR, regular belly fat, but high back fat means... I can't remember. From there he'll put them on a supplement plan to normalize those hormones, and apparently fat drops right off.
I'm not sure if I buy this yet, but from the reviews I've managed to find, it seems fairly legit.
Anyhew, from what I've read on cortisol... and I'm still damn confused, it's supposed to be high in the morning (helps you wake up and get out of bed) and low at night (lets you fall asleep).
Now, when you're uber stressed out, it will just be high all the time, until your body gets pissed.
Then, it will be low in the mornings, (can't get out of bed, morning fog) and high at night (can't fall asleep). This is pretty much me to a T, as since I've been a kid I've had to drag my ass out of bed, and have never had that POP I hear most people have in the mornings.
So, as far as a cortisol blocker... I'm not really sure how they work, but I'd say take it at night before bed... but that is definately not expert advice.
Also, I've heard another way to help lower cortisol and restore the correct balance is an ass load of fish oil.
Hope this helps dude, and if anyone else has anything to add, I'm all ears.
That's me to a T....i feel like shit every morning and it takes a long ass time for the mental fog to clear. Been like this since i was a child.Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry10
I think it's not actually as simple as cortisol being out of whack, I think it's also adrenal fatigue.Quote:
Originally Posted by gustavo77
I'm experimenting with fish oil, zinc and magnesium right now, seeing if I can pull out of it, but I've heard it takes a long time to reverse this.
Since it really pisses me off that I have to have 3 alarm clocks just to get out of bed, I'd really like to fix this problem.
1. Glutamine
2. Vitamin C
3. Stay away from Caffine (Coffee, Pop ect..)
4. Sleep
This is a pretty old thread, just wondering if anyone has come up with anything since they noticed has worked at controlling cortisol diet / supplement wise? Any research to back it? I will even accept bro science if the results are clear enough.
To be honest it's not something I've consciously given any worry to. And I work long hours and an somewhat sleep deprived, maybe I should look more into the subject.
Phosphatidylserine would be the supplement to take! 200mg up to 800mg post workout is usually recommended.
I heard taking about 5-10g of L-Glycine before bedtime would help too.
Eric
Here is a text about it :
Phosphatidylserine: The Remarkable Brain Cell Nutrient
Phosphatidylserine (PS) is a naturally-occurring phospholipid that is found in all cells of the body, with particularly high concentrations in the brain. PS is an essential cell membrane building-block for nerve cells. Of all the body's organs, the brain, without question, performs the most complex and most energy-demanding functions. Healthy nerve cell membranes are essential to generate optimum energy and to produce, package and release numerous chemical neurotransmitters in their proper amount and balance. Cell membranes are also the sites where nerve cells react to these neurotransmitters and where neurotransmitters are then recycled for later use for clearance from the brain.
The site where nerve cells perform most of their specialized functions is on or within their membranes. These membranes are composed mainly of phospholipids and proteins (Fig. 1). Among the causes of memory decline and other cognitive impairment are: (1) the death of nerve cells, or (2) the decreased density of their interconnected networks due to loss of dendrites, the tiny filaments which connect one nerve cell to another (Fig. 2). These changes may be due to aging or damage to the brain from such insults as alcohol consumption, cigarette smoking, toxic chemicals, chronic emotional stress, stroke, trauma or hypoglycemia.
Supplementation of the diet with PS has been proven to slow, halt, or in many cases, even reverse cognitive degeneration due to age-related cognitive decline (ARCD) 2, 3, 9 and dementing illnesses like Alzheimer's disease.1,4, 6, 7, 8, 10 PS has been scientifically established to be among the most effective substances to consistently result in dramatic cognitive improvements and enhancements of other higher brain functions. Until recently, however, PS was available in the U.S. only as a very minor constituent of lecithin. Now, new technology has made it possible to greatly enhance the PS content of lecithin, making phosphatidylserine readily available in effective amounts for the first time.
Structure and Biochemistry of PS
The PS molecule has a "head," a middle piece, and two tail groups (Fig. 3). The head piece consists of serine and phosphate, the middle piece is derived from glycerol, and the tails are fatty acids. PS is extremely bioavailable and crosses the blood-brain barrier with ease. Once in the brain, the PS molecule as a unit merges smoothly into the nerve cell membrane where it is available to facilitate cell-level energetics and homeostasis, as well as enhance neurotransmitter production, release, and action. PS also serves as a precursor reservoir for the related phospholipids, phosphatidylethanolamine (PE) and phosphatidylcholine (PC).
As a unique phospholipid constituent of all known cell membranes, PS helps to ensure membrane integrity (in conjunction with the other phospholipids: PE, PC and phosphatidylinositol [PI]). This demarcates the "living" cell interior from the "nonliving" outer environment. This demarcation is absolutely necessary for life to exist. PS also helps support the functions of a number of membrane proteins. A list of these membrane proteins reads like a "Who's Who" of important proteins for the cell: Na/K ATPase; Ca ATPase; Mg ATPase (for ion transport); protein kinase C; adenylate cyclase (for processing signals that reach the cell from the environment); NADPH-cytochrome C reductase (for mitochondrial energy production); proteins that mediate the release of transmitters via secretory vesicles; and receptors for NMDA and other transmitters. PS also serves as a reservoir for fatty acids which are the sources of messenger molecules which carry signals from the cell membrane to the surroundings (the prostanoids or "prostaglandins").
PS occurs in all tissues of the body. In addition to its many nerve cell functions, it is also known to be involved in red cell recycling, bone matrix formation, testicular function, generation and regulation of the heartbeat, and hormone secretion by the adrenal glands.
Clinical Findings of Memory Improvement
Findings from many controlled clinical trials indicate that PS consistently ameliorates memory loss and other cognitive decline related to aging (many of these findings have been cited and described in Smart Drugs IIThe Next Gen-eration).5 In 14 double-blind clinical trials1-4, 6-11, 14-16,18 conducted with subjects aged 50 and older, PS benefited all degrees of cognitive impairment. In one U.S. trial by Crook, et al (1991) on subjects with age-related cognitive decline (ARCD),3 PS reversed the decline of name-face acquisition skills by a statistical 12 years, i.e., from average scores attained by 64 year-old subjects, to average scores attained by 52 year-olds. This is a reduction in "cognitive biological age" of 12 years!
In double-blind trials conducted with more severely afflicted subjects, PS brought about statistically and clinically significant improvements in measures of recall, learning, concentration, adaptability, mood and sociability. In other double-blind trials, PS improved neuro-physiological measures such as EEG (electroencephalogram) and reflexes (as judged by flicker-fusion response time).17
In another human trial conducted with young male volunters, PS significantly improved EEG alpha rhythm (which often declines with aging and memory loss).17 In older subjects with severe cognitive impairment, PS dramatically enhanced brain glucose consumption (assessed via positron emission tomographic [PET] imaging) and partially restored the 24-hour rhythm of TSH (thyroid-stimulating hormone) secretion in aged men.19 Also, in elderly subjects, PS enhanced the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) stress-coping axis, as assessed by the dexamethasone suppression test.13
PS as a Cortisol Blocker
PS also ameliorated elevations of stress hormones (ACTH and cortisol) associated with strenuous exercise in young men.12,13 This is an extremely important finding, as age-related increases in the cortisol/DHEA ratio (due to both prolonged elevated cortisol levels due to stress and/or aging and decreased DHEA levels due to aging) are a significant biomarker of aging. This changing ratio reflects the toxic effects on the body of prolonged relative "hypercortisolemia" (elevated blood levels of cortisol). These effects can ultimately manifest as the "Cushingoid" appearance of many people over the age of 50 (Table I). Consequently, the cortisol-blocking effects of phosphatidylserine may have profound effects on delaying many adverse effects of aging.
Double-Blind Studies Determine the Right Dose
The dosing strategy for PS has been elucidated from more than 40 clinical studies (many of them double-blind) with over 2,000 subjects in Europe and the USA during the past two decades. Clinically effective oral intakes ranged from 200 to 800 mg per day, taken in divided doses with meals. Most of the trials were conducted at 300 mg per day but for subjects with motor impairment, higher doses may be necessary.
A Proven Track Record of Safety
The incidence of side effects from PS is very low. This is best illustrated by the largest double-blind trial (Cenacchi and others, 1993),2 in which one subject (of 494) dropped out because of an adverse PS effect, as compared with seven drop-outs from the placebo group.
After some 20 years of clinical use, PS has exhibited no known negative interactions with drug therapies. In the Cenacchi, et al. trial cited above,2 the subjects were elderly (65-93 years) and were allowed to continue on their prescribed drug regimens for the full six months of the trial. Of the 494 subjects who began the trial, 425 completed it. Other drop-outs were due to deaths or other reasons not related to PS. Over the full six months, no adverse interactions were noted between
PS and the assortment of drugs that were being taken by this typically elderly population (diuretics, anti-thrombotics, anti-diabetogenics, anti-arrhythmics, anti-hypertensives, anti-inflammatories, anti-acids, anti-ulcers, mucolytics, insulin, calcitonin, and calcium channel blockers).
PS has an extremely favorable benefit-to-risk profile which stands to reason since it is a major intrinsic constituent of all human cells. Lecithin, the plant extract source of PS, is rated GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe). Human subjects have safely tolerated up to 800 mg of PS per day. PS has safely been administered to dogs at 70 gm per day for one year, without any toxicity or adverse effects. Furthermore, no clinical blood abnormalities have ever been seen after long-term intake. Toxicological assessments indicate that PS is neither mutagenic nor carcinogenic; it is not teratogenic in animals, and there are no indications it would be unsafe during human pregnancy.
Contraindications for the use of PS include soy allergy, known intolerance to lecithin preparations, and rare cases of antiphospholipid autoimmune syndromes. PS has infrequently caused gastro-intestinal upset and can cause insomnia if taken in a large dose (600 mg) just before going to bed.
Over Two Decades of Studies Validate the Efficacy of PS
PS has been studied exhaustively for over twenty years. During this time, it has demonstrated in study after study that it has a significant effect on enhancing memory and other brain functions in both normal and cognitively impaired individuals. These studies confirm that PS is a highly effective agent for enhancing brain function, with a remarkable safety profile. Whether the impaired mental function is linked to aging, toxic or traumatic damage, cerebral insufficiency, or nonspecific causes; diverse measures of brain performance indicate that PS is rarely, if ever, surpassed for its clinical benefits to the brain as a whole.
Highly recommended source of nutrients and supplements.
How did we qualify VRP?
References:
1 Amaducci, L and the SMID Group. "Phosphatidylserine in the treatment of Alzheimer's disease: results of a multicenter study." Psychopharmacol. Bulletin, 1988, 24: 130-4.
2 Cenacchi, B, Bertoldin T, Farina C, Fiori M.G., Crepaldi G. "Cognitive decline in the elderly: a double-blind, placebo-controlled multicenter study on efficacy of phosphatidylserine administration." Aging (Clin. Exp. Res.), 1993, 5: 123-33.
3 Crook, T.H., Tinklenburg, J, Yesavage J, Petrie W, Nunzie M.G., and Massari, D.C. "Effects of phosphatidylserine in age-associated memory impairment." Neurol, 1991. 41: 644-9.
4 Crook, T.H., Petrie W, Wells C, Massari, D.C. "Effects of phosphatidylserine in Alzheimer's disease." Psychopharmacol. Bulletin,, 1992. 28: 61-6.
5 Dean, W., Morgenthaler, J. Fowkes, S. 1993 "Phosphatidylserine" Smart Drugs II, The Next Generation, Health Freedom Publications. Menlo Park, CA. pp. 75 * 80.
6 Delwaide, P.J., Gyselynk-Mambourg A.M., Hurlet A. and Ylieff M. "Double-blind randomized controlled study of phosphatidylserine in demented patients." Acta Neurol. Scand, 1986. 73:136-40.
7 Engel, R.R., Satzger W, Gunther W, Kathmann N, Bove D, Gerkes, Munch U and Hippius H. "Double-blind cross-over study of phosphatidylserine vs. placebo in subjects with early cognitive deterioration of the Alzheimer type." Eur. Neuropsychopharmacol, 1992. 2: 149-55.
8 Funfgeld, E.W., Baggen, M, Nedwidek,P, et al. "Double-blind study with phosphatidylserine (PS) in Parkinsonian patients with senile dementia of Alzheimer's type (SDAT)." Progr. Clin. Biol. Res, 1989. 317: 1235-46.
9 Gindin, J, et al., 1995. The Effect of Plant Phosphatidylserine on Age-Associated Memory Impairment and Mood in the Functioning Elderly. Rehovot, Israel: Geriatric Institute for Education and Research, and Department of Geriatrics, Kaplan Hospital.
10 Hershowitz M, et al. "Long-term treatment of dementia Alzheimer type with phosphatidylserine: effect on cognitive functioning and performance in daily life." In, Bazan NG, et al (eds) Phospholipids in the Nervous System: Biochemical and Molecular Pathology, 1989. Padua, Italy: Liviana Press.
11 Maggioni, M, Picotti, G.B., Bondiolotti ,G.P., Panerai, A. Cenacchi, T. Nobil, P. and Brambilla, F. "Effects of phosphatidylserine therapy in geriatric patients with depressive disorders." Acta Psychiatr. Scand. 1990. 81: 265-70.
12 Monteleone, P, Beinat, L, Tanzillo,C, Maj, M, and Kemali, D. "Effects of phosphatidylserine on the neuroendocrine response to physical stress in humans." Neuroendocrinol, 1990. 52: 243-8.
13 Monteleone, P, Maj,M, Beinat,L, Natale,M, and Kemali,D. "Blunting by chronic phosphatidylserine administration of the stress-induced activation of the hypothalamos-pituitary-adrenal axis in healthy men." Eur. J. Clin.Pharmacol ,1992. 41: 385-8.
14 Nerozzi, D., et al. "Phosphatidylserine and impaired memory in the elderly." La Clinica Terapeutica, 1989. 120: 399-404. [Translated from the Italian]
15 Palmieri, G, Palmieri, R, Inzoli, M.R., et al. "Double-blind controlled trial of phosphatidylserine in patients with senile mental deterioration." Clin. Trials J., 1987. 24: 73-83.
16 Ransmayr, G, Plorer, S, Gerstenbrand,F, and Bauer,G. "Double-blind placebo-controlled trial of phosphatidylserine in elderly patients with arteriosclerotic encephalopathy." Clin. Trials J., 1987. 24: 62-72.
17 Rosadini, G, Sannita ,W.G., Nobili, F, and Cenacchi, T. "Phosphatidylserine: quantitative EEG effects in healthy volunteers." Neuropsychobiol, 1991. 24: 42-8.
18 Villardita, C, Griolis, S, Salmeri, G,et al."Multicentre clinical trial of brain phosphatidylserine in elderly patients with intellectual deterioration." Clin. Trials J., 1987. 24: 84-93.
19 Kidd, P., 1995. Phosphatidylserine (PS), A Remarkable Brain Cell Nutrient. Lucas Meyer, Inc, Decator, Il.
Glutamine, bcaas, vitamin c, and e, and zinc....
Cortisol is controlled and lowered fairly well with this protocal.....
One question I have since quite some time : cortisol, beside being a fat storage hormone, is also used in injection to ease the pain in the joints. Do taking cortisol suppressor could have a negative effect on joints then ?
Eric
Thats cortisone. Its an NSAID used to reduce pain.
Ah ok thanks!
Eric
Cortisol is necessary in the body to reduce inflammation and handle stress...reducing cortisol below what is a normal amount will result in negative health issues. People hear that cortisol breaks down muscle and they then want to eliminate it altogether because they do not understand how it works in the body...they only know one aspect...this is the case of a little information is a dangerous thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by TT Eric
The body operates optimally in homeostasis which mean with optimal levels of cortisol and other hormones ie estrogen, testosterone etc
The answer to your question is yes it will cause health issues if suppressed below what is optimal.
P
Just a clarification...NSAIDs are used to reduce inflammation they are not pain medication. The reduction in inflammation may reduce pain indirectly as in the case of tendonitis etc. NSAIDs cause a lot of stress on our digestive system so you should supplement with a probiotic if taking them.Quote:
Originally Posted by #8
P
Glad you are here!Quote:
Originally Posted by Praetorian
Does the cortisol produced through an intense training is a good thing ? In other word does that mean I should stop taking PS after workout ?
Maybe the 75g of WM is enough to suppress it ?
(I found nothing related to cortisol and L-Glycine before bed, though Glycine may help sleep better).
Thanks
Eric
A good post workout shake consisting of whey isolate protein and a higher GI carbs source such as malto/waxy maize/dextrose is enough to circumvent any negative cortisol issues.
P
Great advice for normal postwork stresses....BUT, if one is having interrupted sleeps, and extra outside stressors emotionally etc that is causing higher stress, extras are required throughout the day....such as vit c, glutamine, etc....Assists in cortisol control outside of gym stresses...Quote:
Originally Posted by Praetorian
Yes agreed extras may necessary if stress is over the top and causing issues...you could also alleviate stress and cortisol via physical methods...ie deep breathing, meditation, massage etc.
P
and Making whoopee!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Praetorian