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Eric I agree with Steve...enough dieting..there comes a point where the body has had enough and trying to push further will cause more harm then good. Concentrate on optimizing carb intake and get back to building some lean muscle. Drop cardio to maybe 5-6 walking session for 25-30 min only which will keep you lean and maximize recovery as well.
P
Thanks guys. You think I'm lean enough to gain until next spring ?
Eric
You don't need to be lean to gain. Otherwise how do guys who never stay lean continue to put on muscle year after year (ex. most strongmen, many powerlifters). Some people (men and women) have gained from their early twenties to their fourties without having ever seen an ab in their lives. Even some bodybuilders are only lean for about 1 week after their contests. There may be studies showing optimal levels of body fat to better utlize nutrients uptake, but in practice it's not really as important as they might make it seem. It's just like any other research study out their. In clinical practice, just because we see some things being statistically 'significant' doesn't mean so much for an individual.Quote:
Originally Posted by TT Eric
Just the same as you don't need to 'bulk' to obese levels to gain which some bodybuilders believe (or used to believe). All you need to be is consistent with your diet and training, and remain as injury free as possible.
If you find an example of people you might know that don't bulk and cut and who do not gain over time, the problem is not because of the lack of bulking and cutting. Even if their was an ounce of truth in the bulking and cutting, we're talking fractions and fractions of a pound of muscle difference in the long run - particularly for a natural bodybuilder. Just don't get fat by spring and you'll be fine. Aim for 1 pound every couple of weeks (perhaps more in the beginning as you regain some fluid and start to balance out). Once you are 190, certainly try not to gain more than a pound or so every couple weeks. If you get over 200, you've gone too far, or you consumed too much (at least from what I see as your goals). Staying under 15-16% is likely something you should aim for. This is also of importance from a health standpoint regardless of bodybuilding and particularly given your genetics. You shouldn't need to restrict too much to do so, and you should be able to gain as much as any other method doing so.
Hey guys! Perforated an eardrum (again) while doing free diving a few days ago, water is stuck into the middle ear (again) had to go to the clinic today because of pain building up instead of down, they took my weight, I was 178lbs on their scale with light clothing/sandals.
I do not have any bloating since the beginning of the vacation, I'm wondering if something in my regular eating habits make me bloat. I have 31'' shorts floating literally around my waist, it's held by the hips/legs.
I wanted to train but because of heavy pain I cannot so far (my heart is pounding in my ear). Maybe next week.
It really sucks to be in a paradise and cannot go into the water, I had planned to do at least 12-16 days of snorkeling/free diving, I did 4 and it will be it. It takes about 4-6 week to heal.
Eric
Ok I came back yesterday! I went on the scale this morning and I was at 170.8lbs so a loss of 10.2lbs since the last official day of the diet. As far as eating/exercising during the 3 weeks vacation, because of the tearing of my eardrum I did only ~6hrs of free diving instead of the 30-40hrs I had planned in the 3 weeks there, so a lot less exercise, I only hit the gym once last week and for the diet, I ate when I was hungry and stopped when I was feeling fed.
Typical day would be like this:
Meal 1: Protein shake
Meal 2: 3 eggs + 3 slices of bacon + 3 toasts + 1 cup of 2% Greek yogurt + fresh pineapple
Meal 3: Some carbs like a few cookies
Meal 4: 2 double meat hamburgers
Meal 5: 1 cup 2% Greek yogurt + pineapple + protein shake, sometime a few more cookies or similar treat
We had a great place for burgers made with Grass fed beef! And it was fairly easy to find grass fed beef and other organic meat.
I didn't loose fat, I do feel like a shrimp though, I'll hit the gym today. I will eat carbs peri workout and will keep fat a bit low for a week or 2 and see how it goes, I will start also another off season diet log soon.
Quick photo shoot, I look like sh!t, especially the back.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...ps62d83ef9.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...ps2042da97.jpg
Eric
Welcome back!
Your calories went up to about 2500-2800 per day (over 1000+ more than before). You've upped the carbs considerably and did far less exercise then previous (ie no gym, and no cardio). You must have done a LOT of walking while there. Otherwise the 10 pound loss is hard to explain! I wouldn't say you look like crap in the pics. You didn't gain fat, and perhaps look a little leaner, but hard to tell. You certainly don't look 10 pounds lighter. You have left the gym for a while, so maybe less of a pump to the muscle - although that wouldn't explain 10 pounds.
If you can eat like that and get to 170, I can't see how you ever got to 200+. Although if you asked me last month I would have said the opposite since you were eating half the calories just to stay in the 180s!
PS: are you the only one that goes on vacation and comes back with less of a tan! haha - maybe its just the pictures.
Thanks Steve!
Yes it's pretty hard to explain how I can double the calories and loose 10lbs. Plus I have move less then usual in vacation. The fact that we traveled with friends, made things much more slower, ie the girls were ready around 12h-13h and we we were back at 18h-19h because of the dark. Normally I would go free dive on my own all afternoon.
All I can see that affected my weight is partially due to the creatine that was out (but caffeine was out also) and like you said no pump at all, but it does not explain fully -10lbs. 2 years ago, after diet and vacation I was -2lbs and I moved a lot.
And LOL, it's a setting in the camera that is not the same, I have a good tan and a white butt, I never use sun screen.
Eric
I could see a few pounds for creatine.
I went on the scale this morning (Yesterday I was in Mtl so I could not). I am at 172.8lbs so a gain of 2.0lbs. Since I had lost 10lbs, I've pretty much jumped right away to the diet I have planned to do after a transition time, this week was ~250g/pro, 60g fat, carbs 250g per day, carbs are in the peri-workout area.
This is with 15g of creatine everyday.
My strength went down even more, now it's pathetic, on the bench press I used the SAME weight I was usually using for my deload/easy week, I even did less reps then I would do normally. Also, even with 40lbs less, I wasn't able to match my numbers on chin-ups and dips...
Lost another .5'' of arms, 1'' of legs and 1'' of calves... now I'm smaller then I was after my 2012 diet.
I've been welcomed at the gym with 'Oh man, you lost a lot of muscular mass' - 'Oh Eric, you're smaller'...
I'm not too discouraged, but it's not fun. I hope it'll come back soon.
The fact that I've lost so much strength prove that I've lost some muscle, anyway I did not have 40lbs of fat & water to loose at the beginning of the diet.
Is it possible that the conversion of T4 - T3 was not very good during the diet ? I mean I did push the diet while my body was resisting/adapting fast and when I began to eat twice as before, I've lost 10lbs, maybe when back to normal the T4 - T3 conversion went full throttle ?
Or simply my testo just went down the drain like my Biosginature guy says ? (Libido is good though).
Just shooting theories, trying to understand.
Eric
I highly doubt you lost the muscle mass you think you did. If you were eating adequate protein which i am sure you were it is actually quite difficult to lose muscle unless you are doing something highly catabolic ie running long distances. Also most people under estimate the amount of weight they need to lose to get lean...this is very common. Fat combined with water loss can easily add up to numbers that are a bit of a surprise.
Naturally as you diet your test levels may drop...this is normal as well thyroid levels may drop again normal...this doesnt mean drastic muscle loss...if it did humans as a species would have died off long ago.
I wouldnt over complicate things and I also wouldnt worry too much. What I would do is create an off season plan, stick to that plan and shoot for a higher leam body mass about 10-12lbs from where you are now.
Reduced cell volumization can appear as muscle loss very easily...creatine, glycogen, water all contribute to this.
Stick to a year round plan...as an example 4 months dieting, 4 months lean mass gaining. and 4 months maintenance...this does many things...such as keeps your metabolism optimal, keeps you lean, makes dieting easier, makes lean mass gain easier, keeps you motivated mentally.
P
Jeez Eric no offence but the people in your gym sound like straight up jerks! God, I would destroy workouts if I was in your gym just to prove the people there wrong! You look good in my opinion man and that's even after you came off from vacation! Couldn't help notice that it looks like we have similar arm genetics, your bicep head looks very long and the bone structure is very thin just like mine... Ah genetics suck sometimes. But seriously, you look good! Prove those guys wrong man!
-Primal
What do you think caused such a loss of strength ? I mean, it's quite a lot, hardly doing my deload weights on my hard week...Quote:
Originally Posted by Praetorian
I never loss that much strength on any of 8 times I've dieted! Also never loss as much muscle size, except for once where I lost some size in my legs due to poor choice of exercises.
You don't find it weird that I have went from straight hard diet to eat twice as much and loose 10lbs ?
Eric
Oh don't worry I'm very well respected in my gym, they said that out of concern, no one said it in a dis-respectful way! About destroying workouts, I seriously try to do so, but even though I set my mind to do something, it just doesn't work even with all the will power I put in. I mean even though I have done a lift with xyz weight 100 times in the last 2-3 years, it just doesn't go up anymore. Heck I was doing around 17-20 bodyweight dips at 210lbs and last time I did only 11 at 170lbs, I was supposed to do more reps, not less with -40lbs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primal
In my 13 years of training, I never experienced a loss of strength and volume as big as this, in fact for me strength is something pretty stable, I gain very slowly, my former experiences with dieting is that I usually don't gain much while dieting, I usually maintain, at worst I can loose a little on the bench, but not much, maybe a rep or 2 less with the same weights max.
The good thing is that I didn't seemed to have gain any fat yet.
Eric
You dieted very hard for a decent amount of time in my opinion. You lost a fair bit of weight quickly. I personally have a hard time keeping strength up in a slow diet losing only a small amount of water/fat over a longer period of time. You then went on vacation and what strength your body was trying so hard to hold onto simply couldn't anymore with a 3 week gym vacation. Strength goes down faster than size - and you lost size pretty quick.
I don't think I am surprised about the lack of the weight going up more than 2 pounds. Eating 2500 is not a big deal when you're already lean. The weight won't climb too quick. I mentioned this earlier - the weight won't skyrocket unless you completely get off the diet and eat until you feel sick, and do it over and over. You were at a point in your weight that it was hard to lose bodyfat without doing drastic things - but same could be said about the weight going up. A lean body wants to stay lean - a fat body wants to stay fat. Until you do something drastic, the body will likely stay near the same for a while.
If I stopped training for 3 weeks right now I would lose 25% of my numbers at the gym. It'll come back. give it a few weeks. You'll probably be really sore until your used to training again. Like P said, you haven't lost muscle, I wouldn't worry about anything either. Just continue to do what you do. Muscle loss is difficult - even in severe times, the body will not steal your muscle. Bodybuilders who say they lost muscle at the end of their diet simply are wrong. They lost water, they lost the ability for their muscle to show fullness, etc. the muscle is still there. You could diet off rice and peanut butter and still hold onto muscle for a long time. Strength loss is not an indicator of muscle loss either.
Good explanation, thanks Steve. Nevertheless it's the 1st time I've experienced such a loss of strength and volume, but on the other hand I never stopped 3 weeks after a diet, the longest break I took was 2 weeks and lost 2lbs but I was still able to lift pretty much the same weights, minus a few reps. And I also can say that in the first 2 weeks of vacation I didn't really saw a change, but the 3rd week was the one I really shrimped out and weirdly it occurred in the days right after I have train there (the only time I have train in vacation).
Eric
Totally agree with Steve. I was off the gym entirely for 3 months upper body wise and you would think I would have dropped tonnes of size...not true. Its wierd how we think if we even take 1 or two extra days off we will lose size. I was 240lbs when i had surgery and I was 238lbs when I started training upper body again 3 months later...i did cardio and kept my diet keto all week...weekends i ate what i wanted. I figure i lost maybe 5lbs of muscle if that but it shouldnt take me longer than two months to get it back.
Sometime we are just our own worst enemies.
P
Hey I'm glad you are back in the gym Ted! You must be pretty lean at 240lbs, I hope it's the last tearing you'll ever experience!Quote:
Originally Posted by Praetorian
Your example make my case even weirder! You loose 2lbs in 3 months off, I loose 10lbs in 3 weeks off while eating twice as before! You said yourself I would blow up like a balloon if I was not having a transition time.
I have no doubt I will gain back the strength and volume I lost, I was just finding it odd and was looking for answers, for me something seems not normal if you eat twice as much and loose 10lbs.
Eric
I'd consider 3 weeks of eating 2500 calories a transition period! it might be twice normal, but its still a low calorie consumption. You're better off looking it as eating about 1000 calories more than normal. In 7 days, thats only 70000 calories. You were losing 2 pounds a week, so now you are maintenance. The 10 pounds can purely be exlplained as glycogen, water, detrained muscles, etc. You probably didn't lose even 1 pound of body fat in that 10 pounds - and if you did, it was because you overestimated how much you were eating. You're typical day might have been what you said, but perhaps the day after you ate very little because you simply weren't that hungry. Being on vacation with so many other things on the mind, you could have quickly gone without food for longer than you imagined.Quote:
Originally Posted by TT Eric
I know the last time I was on the beach on vacation, we went practically all day without eating and then had a few drinks and light meal at dinner time without even much thought to food. PS: I need a vacation! it's been almost 8 years!
8 years is a pretty long time!! You are long overdue! With young kids it's not as easy though and less cheap, plus all the competitions... We only have one kid, 17 y/o, we bring him most of the time with us, but sometime we go as a couple. Have you seen the pictures I've posted on FB ?
Eric
I did see the pics! Last time we went was pre-kids. it was actually within our first year that we met. We went to florida in Venice/Sarasota. Since kids the closest to a vacation was Ange competing in Toronto at the pro show and having 3 days to ourselves, lol. We do take the kids sometimes with us - but more or less local (ex. crystal palace / moncton / etc) so not considered too relaxing of a vacation.Quote:
Originally Posted by TT Eric
Off the 5 weeks we have per year, we try to keep one for ourselves. You should take a week alone with Angela if you can have someone to watch the kids for you, you guys deserve it!
Eric
I am at 174.2lbs so gained 1.4lbs. Honestly it was a surprise again when I hopped on the scale I thought I was up 5-6lbs from the mirror, seemed to me I gained a little fat back over the abs and gained back some muscular volume, I measured .5'' more arms and legs. Strength went up from last week, still lags a lot on the bench. I dunno why it take so long to gain back those 10lbs if they came out from loss of cell volumization.
Eric
I don't think it was all cell volumization. I'm thinking you ate a bit less than you think and burned alot of it up throughout the day just walking etc. The fat loss may not necessarily show up in the mirror. Also, when you are coming off a diet, you're more likely to gain in different spots than when you were losing (ie doesn't come back on in reverse). You also more likely to hold some water in the skin that may look like fat but is not. Like you said, you thought you gained 6 from the mirror but was only 1.4. After a diet, I always notice that 180 pounds on the way up doesn't look as good as the 180 on the way down (if that makes sense). All in the way your body holds water and gains fat, etc.