Just putting this out there.

I would have to agree with Kloan, as I have to be extremely careful as to what supplements I can and can't take. I am, as some of you nkow a competitive bodybuilder (I am a wannabe in my opinion lol) I have congenital heart disease, and have competed in 3 shows now. Bodybuilding is the best thing that could ever happen to me. I consider myself natural, however I do use supplements. I have used Creatine, Arginine, and of course TONS of Whey protien. Would you consider myself un-natural? I respect the dedication of those who use Steroids. I may not agree with the use of them, but their hard work in the gym doesn't change anything. They can just throw more weight than I could even fathom. That's my 2 cents worth.

Mike

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Originally Posted by kloan

I agree most supplements are not food source, and are chemical by nature. Creatine, pre and post drink mixes, etc... but whey protein is not one of them. It is still derived from real dairy. It may be heavily refined and processed, but it still originates from natural food source ingredients.

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that's all I was referring to. Chemical processing to get a product that we consume today is not "natural". The ingredients may be natural but to get the end product requires a chemical altering of the original product. That's all I meant by it.

Of course I'm just being technical. Do I consider creatine, whey, etc natural means of bodybuilding? Sure I do but technically it is not "natural".

I think "all natural" just means you have to pass a drug test before a comp. If a competitor stops taking hormones for the 2 months before a comp he can technically call himself natural at that given moment.

You have guys who use steroids most of the year, pass a drug test and call themselves natural because thats what the test says...

And then you have guys that wont even drink protein powder...

And then you have everyone in between...

Depending on what you accept for yourself, everyone is a cheat. The only governance is the drug testing... if you pass the test, you are natural... at least thats how the governing body sees it.

"Natural" means whatever the heck you want it to mean.

The last time i checked IGF-1, insulin, testosterone, and human growth hormone were natural.

Natural means no exogenous hormones. For the sake of argument lets assume supplements do what they claim to do, so take some trib and your test production will climb as high as your body can produce... and no higher. Take test and your body will effectively stop producing its own testosterone and rely on the product that you are taking.

Also weight lifting isn't a natural endeavor so if you want a truly natural competition it should just be a bunch of untanned, unshaven normal people and whoever has the best genetics wins.

NATURALLY meaning they are natural if they were to be tested for that show that very day. ie they will stop their cycle way out or drop suspension a few days before the show etc or have been natural for a while.

if you look at some of the top naturals in the nation no way they did that without gear.

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Originally Posted by Vitamin S

NATURALLY meaning they are natural if they were to be tested for that show that very day. ie they will stop their cycle way out or drop suspension a few days before the show etc or have been natural for a while.

if you look at some of the top naturals in the nation no way they did that without gear.

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that or they took a steroid designed to still pass the test which is also possible... most likely with some of them its both

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Originally Posted by tiramisu

"Natural" means whatever the heck you want it to mean.

The last time i checked IGF-1, insulin, testosterone, and human growth hormone were natural.

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I agree...

I'm "natural" :)

you cant even go natural with all the crap that is in food ;)