Carbing up for the big show

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Originally Posted by Delt King

Dude pretty sure hydrochlorothiazide is not a loop diuretic as its in the thiazide family of drugs rather than the loop family like...
* Furosemide (lasix)
* Bumetanide
* Ethacrynic acid
* Torsemide

examples of thiazides...
Hydrochlorothiazide • Bendroflumethiazide • Hydroflumethiazide • Chlorothiazide • Polythiazide • Trichlormethiazide • Cyclopenthiazide • Methyclothiazide • Cyclothiazide • Mebutizide


Anyway, if someone isn't careful they can certainly wreck 4 months of dieting in one day.

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Yah you are right, I was over generalizing.

The thiazide diuretcs have effects SIMMILAR to those of the loop duretics. Much like loop diuretics, thiazides increase renal excretion of sodium, chloride, potassium and water. In addition, thiazides elevate plasma levels of uric acid and glucose. The principal difference between the thiazides and the high-ceiling (loop) diuritics is that the maxium diuresis produced by the thiazides is considerably lower than the maximum diuresis produced by the high-ceiling agents. Additionally whereas loop diuretics can be effective even when urine flow is scant, (such as in patients with severe renal impairment)... the loop diuretics are usually effective even with low glomular filtration rates. The thiazides are not.

Mechanisms of action ... basically the thiazides work in the distal convoluted tubule (just past the ascending tubule of the loop) . The promote uring production by blocking reuptake of sodium and chloride... but they also increase renal excretion of potassium.


Basically the difference between a thiazide and a loop, is that the loop is more effective at doing its job.

The way I see it, taking a loop in lower dosages isn't any different than taking a thiazide in higher dossage, other than you can be sure the loop is going to make you pee.

So yah from a safety stand point, if you don't know what you are doing than taking a thiazide is a safer bet, as its got a built in safety mechanism.

That being said, I have give loads of lasix iv push to patients in the hospital. I have had patients who take lasix at 120 mg oral twice a day, every day.

Bottom line IMO is diuretics are much safer if you know what you are doing than the sodium depletion/ water loading methods.

the other rule of thumb is LESS diuretic is BEST.

The leaner you are though, the less you have to worry anyway about drying out, as there will be no place to hold water anyways.

As for loading Sodium, I'll say yah I load it with my carb load, but I definitely don't start loading sodium when i start increasing my carbs. It takes a few days for me to fully load, I go very slow and conservatively, as the last thing I want is to get a turtle gut... Sodium goes from being avoided, to not avoided, but at the same time not overly sought after, and then at a certain point it is sought after. Bellow are some morning pics from my latest show.

Yah, I was harder at night and even harder then next morning, however... These pics alone demostrate better conditioning and hardness then I have ever brought to the stage in previous years alone.... Finding the perfect timing can only be done this way...

I don't like being attacked bro. The beautiful thing about bodybuilding is there are many different ways to skin the cat... Thats why it is such a unique sport!

I don't think my morning condition in these shots really can be strongly critizized... but from my standpoint there is much room for improvement, and that is why I love the sport.

^ripped...Whatever you did, you did it right! This is why I think when your lean, it doesn't matter what you do...You can't "ruin" 4 months of dieting when your this ripped unless you really try to. Doing anything sensible, you'll get dry. I mean, unless you wake up during the night to consume fluids all night, you'll wake up dry saturday morning.


Although I didn't see you the day after, I always tell people they only "think" they look better the day after. In reality the way you look in the hotel room is not what you look on stage, and I think the more ripped you look, the better, even if that means you are 5 pounds lighter. How much did you weigh the day after? Did you drink lots of water after the show? If you did drink alot of water, that would account for "filling out" the day after, but not necessarily looking better. If for nationals you just eat earlier, but still wait till saturday night to drink, I really don't think there will be too much difference.

P22 if that was your conditioning that far out from nats then i'm sure you'll do very well. You were quite dry. I'm not trying to attack, that's not my style, i was just pointing out the obvious for the youngings on the board but i'll give it to you, you've got a plan that works for you so kill it man.
Give it everything you've got and take no prisoners (no pun intended).
See you in Saskatoon bro :).

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Originally Posted by Prisoner#22

As for loading Sodium, I'll say yah I load it with my carb load, but I definitely don't start loading sodium when i start increasing my carbs. It takes a few days for me to fully load, I go very slow and conservatively, as the last thing I want is to get a turtle gut... Sodium goes from being avoided, to not avoided, but at the same time not overly sought after, and then at a certain point it is sought after. Bellow are some morning pics from my latest show.

Yah, I was harder at night and even harder then next morning, however... These pics alone demostrate better conditioning and hardness then I have ever brought to the stage in previous years alone.... Finding the perfect timing can only be done this way...

I don't like being attacked bro. The beautiful thing about bodybuilding is there are many different ways to skin the cat... Thats why it is such a unique sport!

I don't think my morning condition in these shots really can be strongly critizized... but from my standpoint there is much room for improvement, and that is why I love the sport.

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Hey Prisoner did you win the overall and turn down the WBFF pro card at that show?

It's great hearing everyones input!
CRAZY how everyone does things so different and people clash ideas together. I don't think you can ever really criticize somebody's methods when they show up Diced, but like P22 said they is more than one way to skin a cat. But I think Steve said it the best, in the end it's your conditioning leading up that ultimately defines what will happen in the last week and I think you NEED to be shredded and not rely on too too much at the last minute.
Lookin Shredded btw P22

I Wish I could go to Nationals Soo Bad to see all you guys compete

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Originally Posted by Delt King

Hey Prisoner did you win the overall and turn down the WBFF pro card at that show?

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Yes I won the overall, However, Paul was aware of my competition plans, and did not issue a procard to me. Instead, the offer is on the table should I change my mind and choose to compete in the wbff.

I told him, I would rather attain pro status with the ifbb, then make a decision either way. Obviously his angle is that the deciding factor comes down to money, and where I have the best chance of making more.

For me it is competition... first off I don't want to sign with the wbff and have people say that I only did that because I could not attain a pro card with the ifbb..... that may change though if I don't get one soon lol, as I don't feel like being another bridesmaid like Big Ron. Competition to me means competing against the best in the world.

Secondly, As long as I continue to make yearly gains in the 6 lb plus lean muscle range, I feel I can be a very competitive pro in the ibff at a weight of 250 lbs on stage. That would take me about 3 years to achieve.

But... The current crop of wbff pros are becoming quite impressive, and Paul is adding a few more pro shows next year, so I can't say that I have made up my mind either way.... other than right now wait and see what happens this year, and hope I get a ifbb procard soon>>> I am doing North Americans also this year if I don't do well at canadians (as I qualified through the Emerald last year).

As for competition though... on has to ask yourself, what is the 'Ideal' bodybuilder look like? if it is x-frame, with conditioning and aesthetics without sacrificing abdomen distension for more size etc... I may just go WBFF in the end, as their judging is closer to what most people agree is the 'ideal' bodybuilding physique that most lifters want to achieve... i.e. flex wheeler, not Jay cuttler for example

double post, thought first one got erased :)

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Originally Posted by prisoner#22

also keep in mind bros that hydrochlorothiazide is also a loop diuretic as are many herbal supplements.
**No dyazide is not a loop diuretic...it does not act the same...it is also potassium sparing due to the triamterene

for myself, i don't like to mess with my electrolytes too much the last week prior to a show. I don't believe in water loading, because that flushes away too much electrolytes...and really your body needs sodium, potasium, magnesium, chloride, calcium etc. To function. What i do do is avoid eating excess sodium, so that means plain non processed chicken and rice for me mostly the last week of the prep.
** Dropping sodium too low will cause aldosterone increase leasing to water retention...sodium is not the problem

i believe in using herbal diuretics a little heading into the last few days, and a little diuretic as well to lower the set points. I will also use pressure stockings to help manually suck excess water out of the legs (yah i just gave up one of my trade secrets lol) however you can actually diuress this way too much as well so you gotta be carefull.

When the time comes to load, i do a clean load for the first few days and then dirty it up as time goes on... Adding in high glycemics the last day of the load.

If i use diuretics, i also supplement with potasium... And then there is the sodium load as well to top things off. I won't give away details as i am actually starting to prep people, and want to earn some cash doing it (i'm sure all can appreciate that)

** supplementing with potassium is a mistake many make...the problem being lack of sodium is usually the culprit when it comes to cramping and many mistake this for potassium loss and increase potassium intake which is very very dangerous...potassium controls cardiac output...not to be messed with...if you arent using loop diuretics there is no need for potasium....just add sodium back in the day of the show

however the one very important thing that i know that most lay people arent aware of, is that insulin shuttles blood potassium intracellularly. If you are diuressing at the same time you... Especially if using loop diuretics or herbals even, you will be excreting blood potassium out of your kidneys, and loosing blood potasium a;so as it is shuttled intramuscularly.
If you are not replacing it.. That can represent a problem, and is more likely the cause of your cramps.

**Agree...again the problem is loop diuretics....just stay away from them..they are so 80's anyway

its funny how the methods you learn while treating patients who are in severe diabetic ketoacidosis can be applicable to loading for a show :) lol.

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cheers,
p

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Originally Posted by steve_d

Well, my cramping started really bad friday morning (9am - 4 hours after waking), I didn't cut water till friday night, and I didn't cut sodium until basically friday morning. Funny how cutting sodium lead this to happen within hours of cutting it. (Well, I technically cut it thursday night at bedtime). However, it wasn't just cutting the sodium that caused it. sitting in car, or laying around would cause it to happen. If I was standing or walking it wouldn't...So the advice is to try not to sit still when you start cramping. Sleeping is a different story, its hard to sleep standing up!

I heard quinine helps, but I don't think it helped me - at all. Sodium helps for sure. so don't drop it too low ever - especially when drinking tuns since it will flush out regardless.

Another thing is that for me carbing up makes me cramp. On my weekly cheat meals, I would always cramp up (not as bad as show day, but quite a bit compared to normal). Again, I am sure this has to do with electrolytes, but you'll rarely find a reallllly dry competitor that doesn't complain of cramping. Happens to everyone! (well almost)

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**sodium was your problem...too low...you dont need to cut it just dont add additional sodium to foods...plus add it back in saturday...it will raise blood pressure and rid you of the cramping. Quinine sulfate will help but you need to take it days in advance....sugar free tonic water in a pinch....natural form of quinine.
P