2012 IFBB Flex Pro Results

Date: February 18, 2012
Location: Santa Monica, California

Pro Men
1. Lionel Beyeke
2. Ben Pakulski
3. Fouad Abiad
4. Shawn Rhoden
5. Ed Correa
6. Grigori Atoyan
7. Mark Dugdale
8. Vladimir Sizov
9. Constantinos Demetriou
10. Omar Deckard
11. DeShaun Grimez
12. Stan Efferding
13. Lionel Brown
14. Oleg Emelyanov
15. Rusty Jeffers
16. JoJo Ntiforo
17. Mehmet Yildirim

Pro Fitness
1. Adela Garcia
2. Oksana Grishina
3. Myriam Capes
4. Tanji Johnson
5. Jodi Boam
6. Vanda Hadarean
7. Bethany Cisternino
8. Camala Rodriguez
9. Allison Ethier
10. Sheri Vucick
11. Michele Mayberry
12. Paula Gulman-Williams

Attachment 28952

Lot's of Canadians at this season opener, looking forward to seeing the results!

http://pic.twitter.com/7CFRZ8hV
The first call-out photo for the fitness ladies

And this from the first call-outs for the big boys:
http://t.co/wmE2wDma

‎1st Callout:

Fouad "Hoss" Abiad
Big Ben Pakulski
Lionel Beyeke
Shawn Rhoden


Second Callout:
Eduardo Correa
Mark Dugdale
Grigori Atoyan
Vladimir Sizov

Third Callout:
Deshaun Grimez
Omar Deckard
Constantinos Demetiou
Lionel Brown

Fourth Callout:
Stan Efferding
Jojo Nitforo
Rusty Jeffers
Mehmet Yildirim
Oleg the "Russian Predator" Emelianov

PRO FITNESS

1st call out

Adela Garcia, Bethany Cisternino, Tanji Johnson, Myriam Capes, Camala Rodriquez, Oksana Grishina

Adela in middle.

2nd call out

Allison Ethier, Jodi Boam, Michele Mayberry, Paula Gulman-Williams, Sheri Vucick, Vanda Hadarean

The Canadian boys are right in the mix of this one...

http://gallery.rxmuscle.com/newfulls...MAYRGWPEEK.jpg

For those that don't know yet, to qualify for the olympia, it isn't top 3 anymore. Only first place will qualify. Exception for the Arnold Classic which is top 3 and the New York Pro which is top 2. I have a feeling we will have an Canadian qualifying for the Olympia tonight.

From on-line pics that I've seen, I have Lionel in 1st, Fouad in 2nd, Shawn in 3rd, Ben in 4th and Eduardo in 5th. Having said that, I hope that our Cunucks prove me wrong and solidify 1st and 2nd spot respectively.

After confirmation round....Looks like Pakman has conquered some of the others as was super sharp..final callout had both Pak And Fouad...and there was only 3...put your dough on Pakman here as he came in peeled .....awesome if this comes about for Canadian BB...even better if 1-2

Pro Fitness
1. Adela Garcia
2. Oksana Grishina
3. Myriam Capes

Men Bodybuilding
1. Lionel Beyeke
2. Ben Pakulski
3. Fouad Abiad
4. Shawn Rhoden
5. Ed Correa

Fouad 3rd

Pak got second...piss off...smooth and bigger won this one...BEYEKE wins....Canadian robbed

Check out the pics on MD and Rx people...whats your opinion....Beyeke biiger for sure with nice lines but looks 2-3 weeks away. Maybe was trying to peak for AC but not the best here imo

how did Fouad get 3rd when he was first call out everytime but ben got 2nd when he was in second call out lol. Beyeke looked soft compared to Fouad, they were looking at size probably.

from the pics I am in 100% agreement with 1st all the way through 5th.

Ben in my opinion has been overlooked in the past, and this time when everyone was talking about Fouad, he finally pulled ahead. Lionel won because he dominated from the front with perfect symmetry top to bottom left and right, and great lines. For those who liked eduardo, I can totally see where you are coming from, but something about him I just couldn't wrap my head around until I looked at the pics again. He's got a wide waist, which is really apparent in a front biceps shot. That combined with a very good upper body makes the legs not pop as much as they should to be up in a top 3 spot. Will be tough to correct - because the waist is a genetic thing. It's too bad, because he looks SO good from the back and has the conditioning that people can only dream of getting.

I am a little surprised with fitness results. Myriam must have a wicked routine, because I am not into the physique so much. Again, the blocky waist is what I don't like, and I think its even a bigger flaw when on a women. But what do I know! I really liked Oksana. I think she would be up there for a top 3 at the figure olympia - or at least deserve it. Maybe we'll see her there if she gets an injury that prevents fitness...I think that she is the most impressive though of the bunch. Adela is getting up there...., out with the old, in with the new!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steve_d

from the pics I am in 100% agreement with 1st all the way through 5th.

Ben in my opinion has been overlooked in the past, and this time when everyone was talking about Fouad, he finally pulled ahead. Lionel won because he dominated from the front with perfect symmetry top to bottom left and right, and great lines. For those who liked eduardo, I can totally see where you are coming from, but something about him I just couldn't wrap my head around until I looked at the pics again. He's got a wide waist, which is really apparent in a front biceps shot. That combined with a very good upper body makes the legs not pop as much as they should to be up in a top 3 spot. Will be tough to correct - because the waist is a genetic thing. It's too bad, because he looks SO good from the back and has the conditioning that people can only dream of getting.

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You're high

Attachment 28958

Attachment 28960

Attachment 28961

Like I said, I totally see where everyone is coming from. He's awesome. I am just being picky. He came 5th because he was a bit smaller. But not only because he was smaller. Smaller guys need to be perfect to battle. His waist isn't big...I just said it's wide. The pics you posted all make him look a little better because of the side angle hiding what I am talking about. This is one of the pictures where it highlights a little of what I am trying to say...Again, not big...just wide. And I made a mistake...I meant to say apparent in the ab shot. The guy has massive lats, but you wouldn't know it from this shot.

Attachment 28962

Beyeke in my opinion looks great and symmetry is very very good. But a film of water took away from his shape and didn't look as good as Ben or Fouad. Ben brought some parts up his delts and back are much improved, but just a bit sharper. Fouad looked very sharp maybe some more separation and a bit more detail, but he was bigger all over. Chad did a great job with both Ben and Fouad.
Also, that Shawn Rhoden looked very good! Granted had to be much sharper, but a great physique!

Top three should have been in any order Ben, Fouad, Eduardo...but Beyeke was a very clear 4th...great from the front but way off from the back...he got smoked by those other three. Everyone on the panel agreed Beyeke was off and Eduardo was overlooked...its unfortunate but his time will come. Congrats to Ben and Fouad...either could have taken the title and most guys in the know had Ben winning because of the wow factor. Hes not perfect but he did make significant improvements in the back and arms...a bit more size there and the chest and hell be tough to beat. Fouad looked the best Ive ever seen him...made some huge improvements in the leg department and his symmetry and shape is killer.
P

Oksana, the perfect "figure" IMO. If she crossed over to figure she would place very well. Beautiful long lean muscle.

Attachment 28966

Congrats to Big Ben...i think his physique is awe inspiring.

I watched the video of the competition and Lionel Beyeke won the show. He has a Kai Greene physique. Ben needs to improve his back. His lower body is good, but his back is weak compared to his lower body.

Lionel was the biggest on stage but if BB was judged solely on size than Markus Ruhl would have been Mr Olympia the last ten years. Lionel was off and it showed he needs to tighten up especially from the back...you shouldnt win shows if you are off an not in top shape sorry...and if you want to go by that judging standard then Shawn Rhoden should have won because he has a much better physique then Lionel and anyone in the know felt that this was Shawns show to lose.
A quote from Chris Aceto "Lionel from the back looked like a marshmallow compared to the other guys."
P

All placings are up.

and thats why this is a subjective sport. Bodybuilding these days is starting to look more and more like figure. You have WAY too much variability between physiques, and its impossible to define an ideal when there is so many variables that come into the equation. Politics aside, all we can do is accept that with 7 (or is it 9 for pro shows?) judges combinced to come up with the decision. I don't always agree with the results I see, but this is 1 case where I actually do agree with the winner. For every negative someone can talk about Lionel, someone else can come up with a negative against any of the other competitors. None were without flaws at this show, and none stood out as MILES ahead of the rest. Therefore honestly, I wouldn't have been surprised if ANY of the top 5 had won this show. An argument could be made for all of them being the winner, and another argument could be made as to why they would have been 5th. The exception being Ben in my mind. Perhaps for this reason he should have been the winner...But again, its a judging system that we need to go by.

I'll say this again - its something I bring up often, so bare with me if you get tired of hearing it - but if they scored it totally different, you might have completely different results. If the system was: pick the winner and cast your vote - like an overall vot (and not rank) then perhaps Ben would have won, who knows. Its tough as a bodybuilder to be part of a sport that is like this, and that's why most of these guys QUICKLY learn that placings are only part of what makes competing fun. win some lose some...I think once the dust settles, guys like Ben will think - hey I looked the best I ever have, many people think I should have won, I am still improving, and that is just as important as the trophy (although I do realize olympia qualifications are at stake here, and prize money, so obviously it makes it a hell of a lot harder pill to swallow).

True! If you listen to the retired competitors like Oliva, Labrada, Flex Wheeler, Mentzer... lots of them feels they all have been robbed in their time. It can be political, arbitrary or simply the 'flavor of the day'.

Eric

[QUOTE=TT Eric;429332]True! If you listen to the retired competitors like Oliva, Labrada, Flex Wheeler, Mentzer... lots of them feels they all have been robbed in their time. It can be political, arbitrary or simply the 'flavor of the day'.
When you enter a bodybuilding competition, you are submitting yourself to be judged by a panel of judges. If you cannot accept their decision, then you should not be competing. You have to accept the decision of the panel of judges. People never complain when they win and say they do not deserve it. They only complain when they lose. I hate the cry babies.

When you get to a pro level that judging criteria is about who has the LEAST amount of flaws. The goal is to compare all to determine who has the least amount of flaws.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steve_d

and thats why this is a subjective sport. Bodybuilding these days is starting to look more and more like figure. You have WAY too much variability between physiques, and its impossible to define an ideal when there is so many variables that come into the equation. Politics aside, all we can do is accept that with 7 (or is it 9 for pro shows?) judges combinced to come up with the decision. I don't always agree with the results I see, but this is 1 case where I actually do agree with the winner. For every negative someone can talk about Lionel, someone else can come up with a negative against any of the other competitors. None were without flaws at this show, and none stood out as MILES ahead of the rest. Therefore honestly, I wouldn't have been surprised if ANY of the top 5 had won this show. An argument could be made for all of them being the winner, and another argument could be made as to why they would have been 5th. The exception being Ben in my mind. Perhaps for this reason he should have been the winner...But again, its a judging system that we need to go by.

I'll say this again - its something I bring up often, so bare with me if you get tired of hearing it - but if they scored it totally different, you might have completely different results. If the system was: pick the winner and cast your vote - like an overall vot (and not rank) then perhaps Ben would have won, who knows. Its tough as a bodybuilder to be part of a sport that is like this, and that's why most of these guys QUICKLY learn that placings are only part of what makes competing fun. win some lose some...I think once the dust settles, guys like Ben will think - hey I looked the best I ever have, many people think I should have won, I am still improving, and that is just as important as the trophy (although I do realize olympia qualifications are at stake here, and prize money, so obviously it makes it a hell of a lot harder pill to swallow).

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I'll partly agree to that...but there is still a subjective measure to how much a flaw is a flaw. 1 guy could have perfect symmetry, perfect conditioning, and just not big enough...but you still have to put a subjective value to how "not big enough" he was. So perhaps the judge says "he's 20 pounds too small". Next guy is perfect size, perfect symmetry, and just a bit off in the conditioning. So is that 20 pounds of size equivalent to that 'slightly off' conditioning from the other guy.

Now just think, that is probably the easiest obstacle for a judge to overcome. Throw in: well, he's missing size on this part, but this other part is a little soft, but his symmetry is great otherwise, etc etc. So many variables, and it simply is impossible to even count it as # of flaws. Each flaw needs to be rated on their own subjective scale. At the end of the day, there is not really any judge that does any kind of mathematical subjective calculation in the brain...it all comes down to overall impression. A very difficult thing to do. I can't imagine being a judge at that level - I'd hate it actually! I've said in the past its easier to judge higher level shows...but I think when you get to the HIGHEST level shows, it then becomes more difficult again.

If we look at each criteria...symmetry(shape and balance), size(overall mass), conditioning(definition, muscular separation) and give them equal weighting then Eduardo wins hands down. However when you add subjectability which can weight one criteria higher this throws the judging off...does mass outweigh conditioning? does symmetry outweigh mass? As Nate said it comes down to the athlete with the least flaws.
P

Well you can't compare an IN shape guy to an OUT of shape guy and say the out of shape one was bigger.

The problem here is we had 3 people in the top 5 who had WAY better OVERALL package than the other two and those two are who got rewarded.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steve_d

I'll partly agree to that...but there is still a subjective measure to how much a flaw is a flaw. 1 guy could have perfect symmetry, perfect conditioning, and just not big enough...but you still have to put a subjective value to how "not big enough" he was. So perhaps the judge says "he's 20 pounds too small". Next guy is perfect size, perfect symmetry, and just a bit off in the conditioning. So is that 20 pounds of size equivalent to that 'slightly off' conditioning from the other guy.

Now just think, that is probably the easiest obstacle for a judge to overcome. Throw in: well, he's missing size on this part, but this other part is a little soft, but his symmetry is great otherwise, etc etc. So many variables, and it simply is impossible to even count it as # of flaws. Each flaw needs to be rated on their own subjective scale. At the end of the day, there is not really any judge that does any kind of mathematical subjective calculation in the brain...it all comes down to overall impression. A very difficult thing to do. I can't imagine being a judge at that level - I'd hate it actually! I've said in the past its easier to judge higher level shows...but I think when you get to the HIGHEST level shows, it then becomes more difficult again.

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Awesome placing for the Canuks :)

Conditioning has to be a big key no matter what level we speak about.

Last year AC...Branch...did he have best overall symmetry and flowing lines...really...next to Victor and Wolf or even Evan....he had unthinkable conditioning and mass....he was rewarded with the victory. His physique does not flow...in any direction. I don't think anyone has any question that Heath was better all round than Cutler at the O....conditioned and the whole package with lines, flow, size, symmetry...a clear winner.
Look at Nationals here last year...lots of bigger physiques were defeated by a conditioned physique...look at our new Cdn pros, male and female ...all were extreme conditioned but were not always the biggest or had the best lines on stage....all great winners.

The Flex went off the chart a bit in my opinion as they went away from the best conditioned and overall physique....you watch in 2 weeks if a guy rolls into the AC huge but conditioned like the winner of the Flex...not getting a top 5 for sure because the guys will be superior conditioned. This is the part that must be so frustrating for these athletes...precedents are set one year and then abandoned the next (or so it seems)....you think all the guys for the AC are saying this week...the hell with the last 5 lbs, I wanna be big with some water as thats what the judges rewarded 2 weeks ago. I doubt it....all other top 5 finishers at Flex were better conditioned than winner....who was best conditioned (5th)...who had best lines and flow and good conditioning (4th)..who had best combo (2nd)...

I know from your experience as judge Steve that your insight is prob the best but really...the winner on Sat was set up to peak in 2 weeks by the look of his conditioning level and was handed a gift here...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by razorsedge

Conditioning has to be a big key no matter what level we speak about.

Last year AC...Branch...did he have best overall symmetry and flowing lines...really...next to Victor and Wolf or even Evan....he had unthinkable conditioning and mass....he was rewarded with the victory. His physique does not flow...in any direction. I don't think anyone has any question that Heath was better all round than Cutler at the O....conditioned and the whole package with lines, flow, size, symmetry...a clear winner.
Look at Nationals here last year...lots of bigger physiques were defeated by a conditioned physique...look at our new Cdn pros, male and female ...all were extreme conditioned but were not always the biggest or had the best lines on stage....all great winners.

The Flex went off the chart a bit in my opinion as they went away from the best conditioned and overall physique....you watch in 2 weeks if a guy rolls into the AC huge but conditioned like the winner of the Flex...not getting a top 5 for sure because the guys will be superior conditioned. This is the part that must be so frustrating for these athletes...precedents are set one year and then abandoned the next (or so it seems)....you think all the guys for the AC are saying this week...the hell with the last 5 lbs, I wanna be big with some water as thats what the judges rewarded 2 weeks ago. I doubt it....all other top 5 finishers at Flex were better conditioned than winner....who was best conditioned (5th)...who had best lines and flow and good conditioning (4th)..who had best combo (2nd)...

I know from your experience as judge Steve that your insight is prob the best but really...the winner on Sat was set up to peak in 2 weeks by the look of his conditioning level and was handed a gift here...

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Completely agree!
P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by razorsedge

I know from your experience as judge Steve that your insight is prob the best but really...the winner on Sat was set up to peak in 2 weeks by the look of his conditioning level and was handed a gift here...

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I am not saying I am right. I am just saying I agree with the placings is all...I have no doubt in my mind that Lionel was off compared to Eduardo. But my whole idea is that both of them at their best goes a little something like this:

Lionel at his best = 94
Eduardo at his best = 85

At this show, Eduardo was at his best, therfore 85.
Lionel wasn't, but even still, he was say 87.

87 beats 85.

That is my attempt at giving my own subjective opinion a number.

Am I right? Of course not. There is no right and wrong. That is why its subjective. you guys can all have different numbers to play around with. That's just the way I saw it. Not only that, I wasn't there. So maybe had I been there, I would flip my vote completely. I only saw pics, no vids. And especially no 1080p behind judges row videos.

^^^^^

That why we post buddy...to express our opinions and stimulate conversation and other opinions....and by the way, ur looking great in your own prep...been following along

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Praetorian

If we look at each criteria...symmetry(shape and balance), size(overall mass), conditioning(definition, muscular separation) and give them equal weighting then Eduardo wins hands down. However when you add subjectability which can weight one criteria higher this throws the judging off...does mass outweigh conditioning? does symmetry outweigh mass? As Nate said it comes down to the athlete with the least flaws.
P

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You fail to consider that subjectivity isn't just the fact that 1 judge can weight one criteria higher than the other. Subjectivity is inherent in each of those criteria. Even if both myself and yourself equally weighted each criteria, I still think we come up with a different winner. IE - let's assume neither of us is biased towards favoring mass, conditioning, or symmetry. The subjectivity will also really influence our thoughts on who has the correct amount of mass, symmetry, or conditioning.

Because in my mind Eduardo's symmetry isn't all that good, whereas you might. That is where the subjectivity really shows up. So even if we equally weigh each criteria, we still won't agree on the winner.

Like I said, no one is right on this. Its a matter of opinion, and given equal weighting, I still feel Eduardo deserved his 5th place finish.

I agree with you Steve D. Well said.