So i hit the slin befor the gym yesterday for first time

[Jmany]

just hit like 8ius about 3 mins befor, than proceded to having a bit of no-explode (i had a long day and was tired)
....

SHIIIIIIITTT!
about 10 mins after i felt absolutely retarded, it was like i just ate the whole tub of pre workout shit, im not sure if my body just aborbed the explode that much better?

befor i even started training i had viens on viens. most crazy pump ive ever experienced in my life, although i was not strong at all it was just a quick workout that was quite nuts to say the least. Just rocked a gaterade with some glutamine while i trained kinda sipped throughout

No hypo at all, felt super good actually usually the slin makes me feel shitty (post workout i really dont like it)

weird thing about it is i didnt even crash afterwards at all, a bit of sluggishness but that is expected, my mind was still runnin crazy alert.

[natenator]

why before your workout????

[ironwill]

Milos promotes preworkout slin as well...he claims its good to have enough glycogen storage prior to working out....Ive had a few friends do this also prework, and they love it...Some say working out is like building a house...its better to do construction and have all matls on hand prior to bldg....Rayther than tear down half the bldg, just to rebld again with nutrients after workout....Its gaining popularity, but really needs to be researched prior to trng, it can go very bad if calculations are off, and you use more glycogen during the workout than you plan to....always have gaterade on hand when doing this style...I definitely do not reccommend for new guys to try, get good supervision if doing this style....

[Jmany]

Milos promotes preworkout slin as well...he claims its good to have enough glycogen storage prior to working out....Ive had a few friends do this also prework, and they love it...Some say working out is like building a house...its better to do construction and have all matls on hand prior to bldg....Rayther than tear down half the bldg, just to rebld again with nutrients after workout....Its gaining popularity, but really needs to be researched prior to trng, it can go very bad if calculations are off, and you use more glycogen during the workout than you plan to....always have gaterade on hand when doing this style...I definitely do not reccommend for new guys to try, get good supervision if doing this style....


Very good way of putting it, In alot of articles regarding insulin preworkout is probably looked at as the most effective, but also the most dangerous absolutely...

I will be messing around a bit just to get it down to exactly what works the best, but yesterday basically i ate a pretty good meal, and hit the slin about 2 hours later. im thinking maybe to eat closer to the workout..

[bigdaddydrew123]

so do you do it pwo too

[Praetorian]

If your eating correctly there is no need for slin pre workout..you would have plenty of glycogen stored.
P

[ironwill]

If your eating correctly there is no need for slin pre workout..you would have plenty of glycogen stored.
P

I cant debate the topic as i am not an expert, but it does seem logical to me to want to be full prior to working out....I believe if you are full and can keep your stores full, you avoid catabolism completely....If mass bldg is your goal....we know that slin halts fat burning, so definitely not good to do whilst dieting and trying to lose as much fat as possible...I definitely see this as a usefull tool during the bldg phase of ones cycle..

[Jmany]

No if im doing it pre workout than not post workout since ill already have the huge insulin spike anyways..
But yea, just keepin everyone updated on this kinda stuff (for anyone who cares) just trying out some new protocols.

[Jmany]

I cant debate the topic as i am not an expert, but it does seem logical to me to want to be full prior to working out....I believe if you are full and can keep your stores full, you avoid catabolism completely....If mass bldg is your goal....we know that slin halts fat burning, so definitely not good to do whilst dieting and trying to lose as much fat as possible...I definitely see this as a usefull tool during the bldg phase of ones cycle..

It was by far the fullest/biggest ive ever felt, training chest btw.
Very weak though it was embarrassing lifts (for myself) although i did look good doing the shitty weight.

[ironwill]

Maybe you were a bit hypo and didnt feel it, therefore lost strength???
seems weird to be more weak??

[ironwill]

for anyone interested, have a good listen, this man is an expert IMHO......scroll down to #16, its milos and a couple hours of good stuff....great stuff actually....check it out...

http://www.rxmuscle.com/off-topic.html?start=8

[Jmany]

Not sure what was up, i think i really should have ate more earlier... i guess i wasnt terribly weak just not normal strength.

And TBH, i probably was borderline hypo the entire time, i think its hard not to be. i felt great, but defenetly was a hell of alot different feeling than training without insulin.

When you are doing insulin preworkout the way to train is get in - get out you really dont wanna be sittin around bustin a nut going slow trying to get strength records on the flat bench

[Praetorian]

I cant debate the topic as i am not an expert, but it does seem logical to me to want to be full prior to working out....I believe if you are full and can keep your stores full, you avoid catabolism completely....If mass bldg is your goal....we know that slin halts fat burning, so definitely not good to do whilst dieting and trying to lose as much fat as possible...I definitely see this as a usefull tool during the bldg phase of ones cycle..

You have plenty of glycogen stored from eating proper meals. You are not going to be catabolic because of training for 1-2 hours...guys are becoming paranoid and every little thing makes them catabolic its rediculous. Eat properly and trainhard then us epost workout nutrition to refuel. Overthinking things sometimes does more harm than good.
P

[ironwill]

^^^^ agreed, but there a lot of opinions out there, i think it is beneficial to explore as much as possible.........Not saying i will do it, but interesting concept nonetheless....
Why do you feel this method does more harm...not debating, i am curious, as i want to make some great gains this yr, and im looking at all the tools in the cupboard for mass season....
thanks in advance...
Have you listened to milos broadcast and do you think he is a good guru type guy???

[Ritch]

Suscribed bro! Am looking to try insulin in the months to come, keep us posted!

[natenator]

Not to get on a soap box but I really don't understand why average gym rats dabble in such compounds like insulin?

[Ritch]

Not to get on a soap box but I really don't understand why average gym rats dabble in such compounds like insulin?

Cost is low, and now the verdict is out and turns out it`s not really dangerous if you follow protocol. I`m thinking it could be usefull pct with some ghrp-6 and dhea. But for a long time thought the same thing why would anyone take the risk.

[ironwill]

It has many uses once explored...it binds to shbg, it helps free up testosterone, it is a supplement that can be used to help aid in all the overcarbing a lot of guys are doing that wreaks hell on the pancreas, it has many good safe uses if one is intelligent enough to use it...many uses....
but i also agree it shouldnt be used for average gym rats, only if you are looking to breakthrough, and go to next level....some may find it very beneficial....others will get fat, and possibly sick and abuse the shit out of it like everything else, so it gets a bad wrap......
use and abuse, , big difference....

[ironwill]

Cost is low, and now the verdict is out and turns out it`s not really dangerous if you follow protocol. I`m thinking it could be usefull pct with some ghrp-6 and dhea. But for a long time thought the same thing why would anyone take the risk.
it looks promising for off season use with cjc, and ghrp etc....very promising.....:shock
sorry edited off season, from offcycle...

[natenator]

It has many uses once explored...it binds to shbg, it helps free up testosterone, it is a supplement that can be used to help aid in all the overcarbing a lot of guys are doing that wreaks hell on the pancreas, it has many good safe uses if one is intelligent enough to use it...many uses....
but i also agree it shouldnt be used for average gym rats, only if you are looking to breakthrough, and go to next level....some may find it very beneficial....others will get fat, and possibly sick and abuse the shit out of it like everything else, so it gets a bad wrap......
use and abuse, , big difference....
I don't disagree at all with the responsible use method of using ANYTHING but the reality is slin is not needed for 95% of gym rats and even amateur competitive bodybuilders. I still believe I can grow quite fine using standard AAS along with proper nutrition, training and rest practices. I have no illusions of going pro or even to Nationals and most don't have any illusions of doing a show period so the risk just does not seem to be justified for me.

Alas people always want it now instead of patience and working hard for it so I guess that's why people are willing to dabble. It's too bad.

[Praetorian]

it looks promising for off cycle use with cjc, and ghrp etc....very promising.....:shock

If you enjoy getting fat then yes...if not I would never use it offcycle or without gh.
P

[ironwill]

I don't disagree at all with the responsible use method of using ANYTHING but the reality is slin is not needed for 95% of gym rats and even amateur competitive bodybuilders. I still believe I can grow quite fine using standard AAS along with proper nutrition, training and rest practices. I have no illusions of going pro or even to Nationals and most don't have any illusions of doing a show period so the risk just does not seem to be justified for me.

Alas people always want it now instead of patience and working hard for it so I guess that's why people are willing to dabble. It's too bad.
agreed, i just like to learn as much as possible.....i will not go very high in this biz, as my genetics arent there, nor is my drive as my career is to busy, but it is nice to learn.....In case i want to train people one day...those that cant do.....teach....lol...

[ironwill]

If you enjoy getting fat then yes...if not I would never use it offcycle or without gh.
P

sorry i meant off season, not off cycle....i misread ritchs post and friggin wrote it out even......but these peptides are gaining ground...
Im still interested in what the reasoning to not use is....I read it from a lot of top trainers, and my trainers in past also really liked it, prework, im curious as to what your reasoning is...Because a lot of guys look at your posts, and i do as well, but i belong to a lot of boards, and i have had some very good guys tell me the opposite of what you say, im getting nothing from you here...lol...:)
i guess ill have to learn on myself....AGAIN...lol
i know you follow palumbo, and i have a direct link through to him via a pro we are friends with...he has some very intersting views also about slin....that are different than yours as well...
i guess im just looking for proof in the pudding....

[Jmany]

Obviously insulin is the most complicated drug/peptide you can do, but the potential with it is endless..
I've worked with Scott milne, Dan Dufresn, laura binnete, fouad to name a few, everyone has different ideas and protocols, all im doing is taking the best of all and fitting them together for what works best with me.


Anyways, back on topic i am running GH right now, in early morning and afternoon. Didnt get to use the slin today was too busy at work, but tomoro will go pre-workout for shoulders

[ironwill]

Obviously insulin is the most complicated drug/peptide you can do, but the potential with it is endless..
I've worked with Scott milne, Dan Dufresn, laura binnete, fouad to name a few, everyone has different ideas and protocols, all im doing is taking the best of all and fitting them together for what works best with me.


Anyways, back on topic i am running GH right now, in early morning and afternoon. Didnt get to use the slin today was too busy at work, but tomoro will go pre-workout for shoulders
good stuff bro, i know there are many uses as well, that a lot of hi level folks utilize.......keep us posted on your experiment...i may add to it also....

[jsv22]

it's do-able, but i don't see any huge benefit of it...i believe that there are more risks in this instance...

for example, if people have a sugary drink....it causes an increase in the disposal of glucose into the muscle, liver, etc...
however, if you add exercise (contraction) to this, which also causes a increase in glucose uptake in the muscles....it can actually cause hypoglycemia in some people because the muscles are actually uptaking more CHO then is arriving in the blood from the liver (mostly mediated by glucagon)...

now by taking insulin before working out your doing the same thing....glucose uptake is already increased because of exercise and coupling this with insulin your at a HUGE risk of going hypo IMO

if u do choose to do this i would take ALOT more carbs then you would normally post workout...

personally i doubt this is going to be anymore beneficial then taking it after a workout....at that point your muscles are fatigued and ready for uptake of glucose/aminos...furthermore after a workout your muscles are even more sensitive to insulin then they would be before...

[Praetorian]

sorry i meant off season, not off cycle....i misread ritchs post and friggin wrote it out even......but these peptides are gaining ground...
Im still interested in what the reasoning to not use is....I read it from a lot of top trainers, and my trainers in past also really liked it, prework, im curious as to what your reasoning is...Because a lot of guys look at your posts, and i do as well, but i belong to a lot of boards, and i have had some very good guys tell me the opposite of what you say, im getting nothing from you here...lol...:)
i guess ill have to learn on myself....AGAIN...lol
i know you follow palumbo, and i have a direct link through to him via a pro we are friends with...he has some very intersting views also about slin....that are different than yours as well...
i guess im just looking for proof in the pudding....

Ive used slin on and off for over 13 years...pre/post workout, once/twice daily, with every meal etc...you name it ive tried it.
Pre workout doesnt do much and there is a good chance youll go hypo becuase you cannot regulate the amount of glycogen your body uses while training etc...slin is best used in conjunction with GH and in the morning and post workout are optimal times. From there gains will dictate further usage.
Daves protocol works fine...very similar.
P

[ironwill]

Ive used slin on and off for over 13 years...pre/post workout, once/twice daily, with every meal etc...you name it ive tried it.
Pre workout doesnt do much and there is a good chance youll go hypo becuase you cannot regulate the amount of glycogen your body uses while training etc...slin is best used in conjunction with GH and in the morning and post workout are optimal times. From there gains will dictate further usage.
Daves protocol works fine...very similar.
P
I forgot to mention one thing...When im talking about hypothetically using slin, i am talking about 3-5 ius....Used as a supplement...I am assuming you use it in the am to halt catabolism and promote anabolism with breakfast....That is what i would use it for, except i also want the added benefit of the freeing up of test in my body by binding to shbg and allowing more test to be floating around in my body...I only need 3 ius to do this, and a relatively low carb meal as well, to not get fat...I use very small doses when on cycle per se....So it helps me as a supplement and really makes me feel better....
I also would use it possibly preworkout because i believe in prevention, in maintenance activities, and bring some of mechanical thoughts across to my body also ie preventive maintenance on equipment,.......I believe i could prevent catabolism from happening with a relatively fast acting slin that would repeat its benefits in a couple hours after its first peak....I believe if some carbs, and aminos by protein were taken preworkout with again, 3-5 ius of slin, not a huge amnt either, plus an amino acid,creatine and dextrose laden drink taken in during the workut the glycogen stores would remain hi, as opposed to dropping and allowing catabolism to start, then it would take me a half hour to get to the gym, i would workout for an hour, then 20 minutes to get home, my second peak would occur during post workout nutrition intake.....
then i feel i would have made the most of it, and not abuse it, and get more, even though slightly, more bang for the buck on cycle....All this during mass gaining, being utilized as a tool to help out, not abused with the large amnts we see, and not the carb abuse that is also prevalent...blah, im done...

[mersanary]

I forgot to mention one thing...When im talking about hypothetically using slin, i am talking about 3-5 ius....Used as a supplement...I am assuming you use it in the am to halt catabolism and promote anabolism with breakfast....That is what i would use it for, except i also want the added benefit of the freeing up of test in my body by binding to shbg and allowing more test to be floating around in my body...I only need 3 ius to do this, and a relatively low carb meal as well, to not get fat...I use very small doses when on cycle per se....So it helps me as a supplement and really makes me feel better....
I also would use it possibly preworkout because i believe in prevention, in maintenance activities, and bring some of mechanical thoughts across to my body also ie preventive maintenance on equipment,.......I believe i could prevent catabolism from happening with a relatively fast acting slin that would repeat its benefits in a couple hours after its first peak....I believe if some carbs, and aminos by protein were taken preworkout with again, 3-5 ius of slin, not a huge amnt either, plus an amino acid,creatine and dextrose laden drink taken in during the workut the glycogen stores would remain hi, as opposed to dropping and allowing catabolism to start, then it would take me a half hour to get to the gym, i would workout for an hour, then 20 minutes to get home, my second peak would occur during post workout nutrition intake.....
then i feel i would have made the most of it, and not abuse it, and get more, even though slightly, more bang for the buck on cycle....All this during mass gaining, being utilized as a tool to help out, not abused with the large amnts we see, and not the carb abuse that is also prevalent...blah, im done...

Very interesting schedule for a low dose slin intake. I am looking at something very similar as my sport is tested for all AAS. I haven't had time to listen to the radio links you put up earlier in this thread, but I bookmarked them and plan to do so later on this week. I would like to learn more about your results from this type of intake if you have enough time on your hands to shoot me a PM and go in depth with details.

[Praetorian]

I forgot to mention one thing...When im talking about hypothetically using slin, i am talking about 3-5 ius....Used as a supplement...I am assuming you use it in the am to halt catabolism and promote anabolism with breakfast....That is what i would use it for, except i also want the added benefit of the freeing up of test in my body by binding to shbg and allowing more test to be floating around in my body...I only need 3 ius to do this, and a relatively low carb meal as well, to not get fat...I use very small doses when on cycle per se....So it helps me as a supplement and really makes me feel better....
I also would use it possibly preworkout because i believe in prevention, in maintenance activities, and bring some of mechanical thoughts across to my body also ie preventive maintenance on equipment,.......I believe i could prevent catabolism from happening with a relatively fast acting slin that would repeat its benefits in a couple hours after its first peak....I believe if some carbs, and aminos by protein were taken preworkout with again, 3-5 ius of slin, not a huge amnt either, plus an amino acid,creatine and dextrose laden drink taken in during the workut the glycogen stores would remain hi, as opposed to dropping and allowing catabolism to start, then it would take me a half hour to get to the gym, i would workout for an hour, then 20 minutes to get home, my second peak would occur during post workout nutrition intake.....
then i feel i would have made the most of it, and not abuse it, and get more, even though slightly, more bang for the buck on cycle....All this during mass gaining, being utilized as a tool to help out, not abused with the large amnts we see, and not the carb abuse that is also prevalent...blah, im done...

You are making things much too complicated. Slin is not a complicated peptide...it is quite simple actually. It acts as a transport for macronutrients into the cell. Using slin to free up test is a waste of time if it actually does anything at all it would be quite negligible...not to mention if you are taking exogenous test what is the point? I really dont understand how guys think that the idea of training for 45min can put you in a catabolic state after eating throughout the day. Even on a low carb diet you arent catabolic and you are taking in maybe 20% of normal carb intake. Also the idea that you need exo insulin to improve uptake of creatine , dextrose etc is incorrect. Unless you are insulin resistant the amount of insulin produced naturally will do the job nicely.
Slin is not magic...it wont do magic things...it WILL make you fat if you use it incorrectly and most guys do NOT need slin...it is only necessary if gains while on GH and test etc have come to a halt...otherwise youll be know and pudgy the plow boy quite soon.
P

[JonnyO]

it's do-able, but i don't see any huge benefit of it...i believe that there are more risks in this instance...

for example, if people have a sugary drink....it causes an increase in the disposal of glucose into the muscle, liver, etc...
however, if you add exercise (contraction) to this, which also causes a increase in glucose uptake in the muscles....it can actually cause hypoglycemia in some people because the muscles are actually uptaking more CHO then is arriving in the blood from the liver (mostly mediated by glucagon)...

now by taking insulin before working out your doing the same thing....glucose uptake is already increased because of exercise and coupling this with insulin your at a HUGE risk of going hypo IMO

if u do choose to do this i would take ALOT more carbs then you would normally post workout...

personally i doubt this is going to be anymore beneficial then taking it after a workout....at that point your muscles are fatigued and ready for uptake of glucose/aminos...furthermore after a workout your muscles are even more sensitive to insulin then they would be before...


If your going to take it pre workout, and now from what I've been reading on may be a good way to use insulin to our advantage and not get fat, but make sure to utilize a during workout carb drink like something Milos advocates. People always talk about the pump they get from exo Slin, so working out we are doing just that, add to it the slin and constant uptake of aminos/creatines/carbs during the workout you could be looking at some decent gains.

So I think that taking slin pre w/o and the majority of our carbs during the workout, rather than after makes more sense.

[ironwill]

If your going to take it pre workout, and now from what I've been reading on may be a good way to use insulin to our advantage and not get fat, but make sure to utilize a during workout carb drink like something Milos advocates. People always talk about the pump they get from exo Slin, so working out we are doing just that, add to it the slin and constant uptake of aminos/creatines/carbs during the workout you could be looking at some decent gains.

So I think that taking slin pre w/o and the majority of our carbs during the workout, rather than after makes more sense.
i agree .......Im sorry prae, i have just been around way to many hi level guys that claim slin is way better than proviron at freeing up test, and i also am a bit of a believer in what milos is saying...i guess i will live and learn.....:)
if im fat ill admit it,,,if im huge and muscular, ill send ya pics...lolol..:flagC

[Praetorian]

i agree .......Im sorry prae, i have just been around way to many hi level guys that claim slin is way better than proviron at freeing up test, and i also am a bit of a believer in what milos is saying...i guess i will live and learn.....:)
if im fat ill admit it,,,if im huge and muscular, ill send ya pics...lolol..:flagC

Well everyone has to learn...the easy way or the hard way i guess. Trust me when i tell you BB is a simple endeavour...train like a machine albeit correctly, eat like a machine, get adequate rest, and run a decent cycle. Youll notice that i put cycle last...because it is the least important. Guys who make the cycle the most important thing always fail!! There is no magic in BB its called genetics and work ethic. Without these it really makes little difference what drugs you are using period! You have a decent physique and you can improve dramatically but its not going to be because you started slin pre workout LOL. A simple offseason cycle such as this will give you optimum growth:
1-8 test C 250mg EOD
1-8 deca 150mg EOD
9-16 test E 250mg EOD
9-16 tren ace 100mg EOD
1-16 GH 6-8 iu ED
1-16 Slin 8iu am, 8iu post workout (if needed)
PCT including GH, HCG, Aromasin, Clomid

Thats about as complicated as it gets.
Diet should be 7-8 meals daily 50g pro+50g carbs+20g fat
Training 5 days per week 1 bodypart per day
Constantly improve your strength...ie aim for triple 5's...500 bench, 500 deads, 500 squat all for reps...it will take some time but thats your goal.
P

[Praetorian]

Here it is in a nutshell..the complete and utter truth...yes it hurts but the truth always hurts...get used to it!
P

Tom Prince advice how to become a pro bodybuilderI'm going to cut right to it. Here's EXACTLY, word for word, what it takes for anyone to turn pro:

1. Genetics
2. Busting your ass in the gym
3. Knowing how to eat alot of good food
4. Knowing what it means to "rest"
5. 12-15 YEARS of being consistant, and never missing a scheduled workout (*note: you are allowed to miss 2-3 workouts in that 12-15 years for funerals, family tragedy, etc.)

NOW.. here's how 1-5 plays out: Your GENETICS, you are born with, and can do nothing about. Numbers 2,3,4, I could teach a retarded monkey with a brain amputation.

And №5.. is why 99.9% of the people fail.. and fall dead on their ass.

Notice is doesn't say "gear" or "steroids" in there at all. If you are one of those people that walks around saying "he's just big because he's on tons of shit!", then you will NEVER make it. NEVER!!

Steroids, GH, gear.. is the ultimate weak minded pussies excuse. Because, if it's GEAR, they never have to admit they aren't good enough. These people come up with an abstract excuse that no one can exacty pin point (how much, exactly is "tons of shit"?), and that way they don't have to admit they just ain't got it.

Notice the only thing you never hear someone say is: "I'm just not good enough?"

[ironwill]

Well everyone has to learn...the easy way or the hard way i guess. Trust me when i tell you BB is a simple endeavour...train like a machine albeit correctly, eat like a machine, get adequate rest, and run a decent cycle. Youll notice that i put cycle last...because it is the least important. Guys who make the cycle the most important thing always fail!! There is no magic in BB its called genetics and work ethic. Without these it really makes little difference what drugs you are using period! You have a decent physique and you can improve dramatically but its not going to be because you started slin pre workout LOL. A simple offseason cycle such as this will give you optimum growth:
1-8 test C 250mg EOD
1-8 deca 150mg EOD
9-16 test E 250mg EOD
9-16 tren ace 100mg EOD
1-16 GH 6-8 iu ED
1-16 Slin 8iu am, 8iu post workout (if needed)
PCT including GH, HCG, Aromasin, Clomid

Thats about as complicated as it gets.
Diet should be 7-8 meals daily 50g pro+50g carbs+20g fat
Training 5 days per week 1 bodypart per day
Constantly improve your strength...ie aim for triple 5's...500 bench, 500 deads, 500 squat all for reps...it will take some time but thats your goal.
P
Thanks Prae...I appreciate it....I will do pretty much the same cycle as you posted, minus the tren as i really dont handle it well, i break out like a mofo, and feel like garbage. I will add in the deca, i was going to do test only, when i do this cycle it will be by far my biggest to date, wanted to do my first show on fairly low dose to see if i could even hold my own before delving deeper, i did ok, so up a notch........
Im on pct now and then a few weeks of pcr, then back on....will be 12 weeks pcr, and pct collectively...The cycle always has been and will be last on my list as well, i didnt even start aas until a few yrs ago..
I do realize that it is simple, eat lift rest repeat...My biggest problem is my career...i am managing that much better this yr, so im hoping for the best..
the meal plan you made out is exactly what i am doing now and will do all off season, 50,50,20....
my lifts on squats are in the mid-hi 500s, deads the same, my chest will have a hard time getting in the 500s, i can do 400s, but jeebus, 500s??? I dont know if i can, but i will try...
1 question, how would dbol work about 5-6 weeks into my cycle for 5-6 weeks length of time??
Thanks again, i appreciate it...
I realize there is no magic bullets, but i need to do better, and im looking for all the tools i can, not meaning drugs either..
Ill be in touch when ive put on the mass, for help cutting...for sure..

[BAM]

I don't disagree at all with the responsible use method of using ANYTHING but the reality is slin is not needed for 95% of gym rats and even amateur competitive bodybuilders. I still believe I can grow quite fine using standard AAS along with proper nutrition, training and rest practices. I have no illusions of going pro or even to Nationals and most don't have any illusions of doing a show period so the risk just does not seem to be justified for me.

Alas people always want it now instead of patience and working hard for it so I guess that's why people are willing to dabble. It's too bad.

Perhaps they want to move to the next level ? Do you do slin?

[JonnyO]

I've chatted with Tom Prince on numerous occasions before he left the scene, he was by far one of the smartest guys out there. He wouldnt directly answer any type of question regarding aas or anything like that, but he'd explain things in an indirect way that made you go out and find the answer and be able to fully understand it.

[Jmany]

Yea i met Tom in 2001 at the north americas got my pic with him doin just a bicep shot, holy **** batman. he is a bad ass lookin dude, or was at least

edit. didnt really talk to him though, i was 11 years old at the time, maybe thats why he looked so badass haha

[natenator]

Perhaps they want to move to the next level ? Do you do slin?
I do not.

[Jmany]

just finished training shoulders a while ago after slin preworkout, had a meal replacement shake about an hour before pinning

workout was very good, was very intense and actually went pretty heavy today, crushed a gaterade with 15grams of glutamine during the workout. shoulders were/are so sore from the pump its absolutely retarded im going to be experiencing some pain tomoro..

[Ritch]

Can you run me through your protocol? So you had an mrp then an hour later you pin fast acting insuling. How many units? Was it 8 you do? How long after the shot do you train? How many grams of carbs in your gatorade bottle? Enlighten me brotha!

[Jmany]

Can you run me through your protocol? So you had an mrp then an hour later you pin fast acting insuling. How many units? Was it 8 you do? How long after the shot do you train? How many grams of carbs in your gatorade bottle? Enlighten me brotha!

Yea 4 scoops of cytogainer, i was mad ****in no actual good food made in fridge today :/
this was at about 1130am, oh and also had a tablespoon of PB.
1pm pinned about 8ius of humalog
1:15 blasted 2 scoops of preworkout bullshit, some creatine, anadrol haha

1:35 started training, had a sick workout. and the powerade with glutamine had about.. 55grams of carbs ish. (it was a big one) and i trained till about 3. than had my regular post workout shake

nowhere during my workout did i feel hypo today or even after when i was chillin out.

[Ritch]

Yea 4 scoops of cytogainer, i was mad ****in no actual good food made in fridge today :/
this was at about 1130am, oh and also had a tablespoon of PB.
1pm pinned about 8ius of humalog
1:15 blasted 2 scoops of preworkout bullshit, some creatine, anadrol haha

1:35 started training, had a sick workout. and the powerade with glutamine had about.. 55grams of carbs ish. (it was a big one) and i trained till about 3. than had my regular post workout shake

nowhere during my workout did i feel hypo today or even after when i was chillin out.

Awesome, I apreciate the response, a few questions... What is your post workout shake? I also wonder about the tbsp of peanut butter, any reason for including this?

[Jmany]

I always throw in some source of fat the meal befor i train, i dont know what it is but i can always lift more/stay focused better.... even when i was doing my contest prep diet, i always had my one red meat meal as the meal befor i trained.

The only actual shake i have during the hday (offseason) is after i train and its just two scoops ON whey, 1 Scoop ON serious mass.. with water.
about 75 grams protien, 800 cals. usually throw in some glutamine.

unless i have time to make it home, than 3 scoops of whey w/ 75 grams dextrose.

[Ritch]

So for you pre work out carbs are around 80-100grams with 50`ish grams of protein and around 10-15 grams fat, pin insuling 1.5 hours later, then 30 mins later start training, during training consume 55 grams of carbs, then post wokout shake consists of 75 grams dextrose and 75 grams protein.

That`s very close to what I had in mind for myself calorie wise. Just wasen`t sure of the acutal timing of the insulin itself. Although I am still months away from doing this I plan on having my preworkout breakfast which is 2 cups of oatmeal 1 apple which is 80 grams or so of carbs 50 grams of whey and 10 grams or so of fat. Then during workout 70 grams of gatorade with 20 grams of BCAA, after workout, 20 grams bcaa with 100grams of dextrose then 50 grams protein shake. Then about 2 hours later or sooner if feel the need. 2 cups of rice with 50 grams worth of meat protein.

[Jmany]

That sounds like a really solid schedule bro
And by all means its easy to pull off, cheap, and looking effective.

For me i will be slightly tweaking it here and there to get it down to perfection, but this is the base i will work off.

[bigdaddydrew123]

going to try pre workout today,taking my pwo shake during my workout,then pwo shake with no carbs after see how that works,if i dont post in about 2 hours....i died

[bigdaddydrew123]

did 5 iu,did 50/50 gram shake drank half before workout did other half during workout and sipped on 30 grams of carb plus 50 grams pt after no issues felt mildly hypo for a short while after workout,workout wqas great great pump lots of energy,gonna try this for abouit 3 weeks

[JonnyO]

I'd double the carbs at least for during workout drink as need going to replenish the glycogen lost during working out and then some.

[Ritch]

did 5 iu,did 50/50 gram shake drank half before workout did other half during workout and sipped on 30 grams of carb plus 50 grams pt after no issues felt mildly hypo for a short while after workout,workout wqas great great pump lots of energy,gonna try this for abouit 3 weeks

Are you on cycle?

[bigdaddydrew123]

ya im doing test at 750/week and tren 250/ week.

[bigdaddydrew123]

I'd double the carbs at least for during workout drink as need going to replenish the glycogen lost during working out and then some.
ya i was thinking trying 50/50 pre workout then 50 carbs during and 50/50 after,what do you think.

[JonnyO]

ya i was thinking trying 50/50 pre workout then 50 carbs during and 50/50 after,what do you think.

For during, I would double the amount of carbs you'd take per iu of Slin. Lets say you bang 10iu Huma, general rule of thumb is 10g carbs per iu, so 100g carbs right, I'd double that for your during workout drink of a mixture I would not go over 75g Dextrose keep it at 75g, add some other carb powder or waxy maize and mix with a few bottles of Gatorade.

[bigdaddydrew123]

ok sounds good, i like the pre workout slin idea because i get slin in me an hour earlier which means i get my nap an hour earlier,i only did 5 iu this time but im gonna work up to 10,pumps were really good and didnt lose any energy at all during workout.