Genetic Potential

[O-Train]

I'm curious to see the different opinions on this. If you took a genetically gifted bodybuilder. What do you guys think is the maximum weight they could compete at without any drug use? For the sake of consistency we'll say they are 5' 11'' tall. Just write what you think without considering other responses.

When I say compete think overall winner (good conditioning).

[Praetorian]

Depending on bone structure etc....approx 200-215 lbs.
P

[O-Train]

My thoughts are around 220-230lbs. I think someone could get there but it would have to a number of things coming together.

[Adonis13]

yah id say 230ish at peak potential in prime

[steve_d]

at 5'11, I'd say around 215. 230 if he's the most gifted bodybuilder of all time. The only problem is that we'd likely never know the answer to the question, because if someone had that much potential, it is HIGHLY unlikely they would stay natural long enough to compete at that weight.

[ironwill]

I am not sure, and it would be very hard to judge that....I believe in perspective that flex wheeler was around 215 or 220 when he turned pro at 5,10, or 5'11.........and he was a big bugger....i would bet not natural either...
I had always thought i would be 230 on stage, i was wrong by about 15 lbs, after removing most of my fat, i woke up, and realized i needed to be a larger person than i currently am.....Contest condition is very tough to hold muscle when you dont really know whats going on for the first time at low doses....Being natural would really take a toll on the muscle for contest condition....it would also take a lot of expertise to do it well IMO
I would say 215 would be a big natural guy on stage at 5'11"....

[C-money]

Look at the pro true naturals, not too many of them compete at over 200 on stage... On stage i would say 210ish would be the max you would see... closer to 200 imho

[GYMBRAT]

I'd have to say 210-215ish , with everything right on par, diet etc..

[O-Train]

at 5'11, I'd say around 215. 230 if he's the most gifted bodybuilder of all time. The only problem is that we'd likely never know the answer to the question, because if someone had that much potential, it is HIGHLY unlikely they would stay natural long enough to compete at that weight.

I was thinking along the same lines. Kind of a "perfect storm" scenario. I also agree with what Praetorian is saying about bone structure. I know I have a fairly small bone structure so it makes a difference compared to guys with a bigger frame. Competing at 200+lbs would be awesome...

[LIVEHARD]

I'm curious to see the different opinions on this. If you took a genetically gifted bodybuilder. What do you guys think is the maximum weight they could compete at without any drug use? For the sake of consistency we'll say they are 5' 11'' tall. Just write what you think without considering other responses.

When I say compete think overall winner (good conditioning).

210-220 MAX Hence there are freaks so you never know

[Ritch]

210-220 MAX Hence there are freaks so you never know

That is my thought as well. Plus I believe the guys with the best genes don`t compete in the first place.

[Praetorian]

My thoughts are around 220-230lbs. I think someone could get there but it would have to a number of things coming together.

It sounds like a nice number but far too many people have absolutely no idea what 230lbs pealed is...its not 5-6%...we are talking striated glutes here...which means in the offseason you are lookign at a fairly hard 275lbs...not likely eveb with great genetics. 230lbs somewhat smooth yes....pealed not a chance.
P

[Praetorian]

at 5'11, I'd say around 215. 230 if he's the most gifted bodybuilder of all time. The only problem is that we'd likely never know the answer to the question, because if someone had that much potential, it is HIGHLY unlikely they would stay natural long enough to compete at that weight.

Very true...in fact Ronnie won his Pro card at the IFBB World Championships weighing 215lbs...and he was clean at the time....add aas and some peptides...look out.
P

[C-money]

Very true...in fact Ronnie won his Pro card at the IFBB World Championships weighing 215lbs...and he was clean at the time....add aas and some peptides...look out.
P

Not only that the guy learned how to eat!!;)

[bigdaddydrew123]

having competed clean and juiced i know how much muscle you lose dieting clean,you can be a big guy but by the time yiur stage ready youve lost alot,id be surprised to see a 215 lb ripped bber who is 100% clean

[GYMBRAT]

so is the old theory of being clean being of the juice for a few mths straight, before a comp just to squeak by the tests?...just a question Prae don't get upset with me bruh! ;) lol

[GYMBRAT]

Not only that the guy learned how to eat!!;)

yes, and ****in EAT!...............

[O-Train]

It sounds like a nice number but far too many people have absolutely no idea what 230lbs pealed is...its not 5-6%...we are talking striated glutes here...which means in the offseason you are lookign at a fairly hard 275lbs...not likely eveb with great genetics. 230lbs somewhat smooth yes....pealed not a chance.
P

Fair enough. I actually don't think I've seen anyone competing naturally with that kind of conditioning. One guy that was close but not peeled to the bone (and definitely not over 200lbs). I just figured someone who was really gifted and dedicated could get up there in weight. You mentioned Ronnie was clean weighing 215lbs on stage. So give him a few years and he could probably put on some more mass w/o AAS right?

[GYMBRAT]

It sounds like a nice number but far too many people have absolutely no idea what 230lbs pealed is...its not 5-6%...we are talking striated glutes here...which means in the offseason you are lookign at a fairly hard 275lbs...not likely eveb with great genetics. 230lbs somewhat smooth yes....pealed not a chance.
P

makes complete sense

[nisser]

I guess we're talking about genetics potential here of the BEST. Some people just are never able to reach those sizes in my opinion. We all have different genetics, respond differently to food and even gear.

[ironwill]

Mike lockett......:popc

[O-Train]

I guess we're talking about genetics potential here of the BEST. Some people just are never able to reach those sizes in my opinion. We all have different genetics, respond differently to food and even gear.

Yup "the best". We also respond differently to training, have slightly different hormone levels, myostatin levels, different bone structure etc etc. Some people could probably spend a lot of time training and look about the same as Ronnie Coleman did before he ever touched a weight. There are some freaks out there and most of them are probably fat and lazy.

[O-Train]

Mike lockett......:popc
.

[C-money]

Mike lockett......:popc

LMAO i think that guy believes his own bullshit!

[GYMBRAT]

Mike lockett......:popc

LOL!!

[steve_d]

It sounds like a nice number but far too many people have absolutely no idea what 230lbs pealed is...its not 5-6%...we are talking striated glutes here...which means in the offseason you are lookign at a fairly hard 275lbs...not likely eveb with great genetics. 230lbs somewhat smooth yes....pealed not a chance.
P

oh yeah...for sure! 230 in the kind of condition SOME of the top amateur or pros get in would be impossible. Come to think of it, someone 230 at 5'11 in THAT kind of condition would probably already be pro. But if were just talking a condition that a top natural would get in, enough to win an overall, then I think 215 is possible. 200 at the crazy condition.

Oh...and I doubt Ronnie was natural when he turned pro at the world amateurs.

[Praetorian]

so is the old theory of being clean being of the juice for a few mths straight, before a comp just to squeak by the tests?...just a question Prae don't get upset with me bruh! ;) lol

I guess that depends on who you ask...lol I would consider being clean as never having used aas or gh etc at all.
P

[Praetorian]

oh yeah...for sure! 230 in the kind of condition SOME of the top amateur or pros get in would be impossible. Come to think of it, someone 230 at 5'11 in THAT kind of condition would probably already be pro. But if were just talking a condition that a top natural would get in, enough to win an overall, then I think 215 is possible. 200 at the crazy condition.

Oh...and I doubt Ronnie was natural when he turned pro at the world amateurs.

If you talk to a few people who are and have always been close to Ronnie they will attest without a doubt he was natural when he won the IFBB Worlds...with his genetics its not that far fetched.
P

[O-Train]

A few people may enjoy reading this (Ronnie Coleman's Biography): http://ronniecoleman.com/biography.htm

[phatkid77]

im gunna say 206lb.....but would have to be really good genetics>>>

unfortunately OHURLEY, i think you are in an elite group...with me and physique./...poopy genentics......
have you ever had blood levels checked bro?

phats

[O-Train]

im gunna say 206lb.....but would have to be really good genetics>>>

unfortunately OHURLEY, i think you are in an elite group...with me and physique./...poopy genentics......
have you ever had blood levels checked bro?

phats

No, I never have. Thought about it but never went. I think my test levels should be ok, nothing that would make me think otherwise.

Why do you say I have bad genetics? My parents were both very good athletes. My mom in her 40's had better biceps than a lot of men I've seen in the gym (just something I remember). I don't think I have bad genetics, obviously not among the best though.

The thread wasn't inteded as "how big can I get" just was curious what people thought was possible for the most gifted and dedicated.

[Natty]

Kai Greene said he was 230 at his highest in competition as a natural and he is only 5ft 8

[kloan]

What about a 5' 6.5" guy.... what would be your guesses as to genetic potential?

[broken7]

http://www.weightrainer.net/potential.html

http://www.weightrainer.net/maximum_potential.html

Not saying I buy into these 100% but it's interesting and seems somewhat accurate

[O-Train]

http://www.weightrainer.net/potential.html

http://www.weightrainer.net/maximum_potential.html

Not saying I buy into these 100% but it's interesting and seems somewhat accurate

Very interesting, thanks for sharing! Based on the numbers at 5'11'' with my fairly small bone structure my weight at 3%bf would be (at maximum) 181.2lbs. True LBM would be 175.8lbs. So from this information a realistic stage weight for myself would be ~185lbs.

I think I can definitely exceed that. I have small wrists (7'') so I think that may underestimate some values such as arms and total weight more than what actually occurs.

These are the maximum values it calculated for myself (I'm assuming they are at a single digit bf%):
Forearm: 13.8''
Bicep 17.2''
Thigh 26.1''
Calves 17.5''
Chest 48.5''
Neck 16.8''

[dremen]

I'm curious to see the different opinions on this. If you took a genetically gifted bodybuilder. What do you guys think is the maximum weight they could compete at without any drug use? For the sake of consistency we'll say they are 5' 11'' tall. Just write what you think without considering other responses.

When I say compete think overall winner (good conditioning).

Well im 6'2'' and im at 210 right now up from 180 a few months ago and from what im told if i tried really REALLY hard i could get up to 240 or so in another 2-3 years of total hard core training, but who knows.

[Shortdave]

I am 5'6" and drug free I have been 220, with drugs I plan on being 250. Granted I have to be able to workout again before that ever happens.

[Drummer]

depending on how stocky they are, 200-240ish. Competition lean at 220ish. God I sound like a parrot. lol.

~D~

[alexander]

200 to 215 Max

[ianfxmen]

show me what a real natural bodybuilder can achieve.most of the pic i see of said natural bodybuilder are looking not so natural to me annyone knows someone that is truely natural and lifting for some years to see what a couple years of natural trainning can achieve really

[Jeff Vanco]

**** genetics.

There is only hard work, dedication, and patience.

You have to train, eat, repeat, for years.

[ianfxmen]

imagine it takes years to build a contest worthy physique using gear just imagine doing it natural from the start

[Andre Gregoire]

**** genetics.

There is only hard work, dedication, and patience.

You have to train, eat, repeat, for years.

100% agree. It's a sport of consistency and patience.

[tiramisu]

imagine it takes years to build a contest worthy physique using gear just imagine doing it natural from the start

It takes years to develop muscle. A contest worth physique is something you are born with. It sucks but it's true.

[gregdoucette]

I think I have good genetics maybe not amazing but very good for sure. I was a really strong kid out benching all the grade 12 kids when I was in grade 9. I started training at 10 naturally for years. At 5 foot 6 1/2 I was able to compete over 170 without anything. I dont think I could get any bigger then I was at last years tested nationals no matter what. I figure there a better guys out there that could have goten maybe to 185 at my heigh completely natural but as steve said those with the best genetics rarely stay natural for ery long. Not many guys have the will power to stay natural after say 10 years of competing. At 5 11 maybe add on 30 lbs tops to that so 215 I think tops at say 5% bodyfat. At 5 11 at 215 with 5% bodyfat u would absolyutely destroy the best natural bodybuilders in canada and likely do ok at the non tested nationals.
Kei green was in no way natural at 230, 198 sure 230 no way. if he was 230 clean hed be 300 by now on stage.

[tiramisu]

When I point to genetics I'm mostly talking about muscle bellies, attachments, shape and symmetry. While strength potential is certainly genetically limited the potential is generally significantly higher than most people ever achieve in their training. Greg as a competitive power lifter and a bodybuilder is likely closer to being the exception than the rule. BUT...

Muscle mass and strength both take 5 years to get to good (80%) with proper training and the last (20%) takes another 10 years. At 20 there's simply no way that you've got 15 years of effective training under your belt.

An uninjured undrugged strength athlete should hit his stride in his mid twenties and peak in his mid thirties. Drugs should push this into the early 40's.

[btufts]

I've been training for about 6 years now and I hope I havnt met my genetic potential yet as my training has only gotten really serious in the past 2 years and I'm just now startting to really know how to train and eat and be consistant. I hope I can still make some serious gains over the next few years but I'm only 19

[tiramisu]

At 19 you haven't even finished growing.

[btufts]

At 19 you haven't even finished growing.

Yeah I'm probably still considered a baby in bbing to most of you guys on here lol Im 5'11 at 195-198 right now and still have 4-5 abs showing. Last year at the same weight I was faat. Shows how much diet and training can bring you. Especially this time last year I was eating everything in sight to maintain my weight upwards of 6000 calories per day. Now I eat in the range of 3000 cals all from clean food with lots of veggies and look much better. Metabolism change?

[tiramisu]

Yeah I'm probably still considered a baby in bbing to most of you guys on here lol Im 5'11 at 195-198 right now and still have 4-5 abs showing. Last year at the same weight I was faat. Shows how much diet and training can bring you. Especially this time last year I was eating everything in sight to maintain my weight upwards of 6000 calories per day. Now I eat in the range of 3000 cals all from clean food with lots of veggies and look much better. Metabolism change?

Probably just reaching the point of grown. I wasn't kidding about still growing at 19. Keep up the good work. The muscle will go on a lot easier once your body is done growing. .... and I hate you. :)

[btufts]

Probably just reaching the point of grown. I wasn't kidding about still growing at 19. Keep up the good work. The muscle will go on a lot easier once your body is done growing. .... and I hate you. :)

Haha something definately changed in this time, maybe hit puberty ;) thanks t! I'm still just learning how to better my training and I got 99% of my information from everyone here on the board. I think consistency is key over everything though, diet and training. That's what will make you continue to grow. I'm really just trying to stay injury free for as long as possible. I have too many friends that are just gym goers that lift with their egoes and most of them have torn shoulders or knees or elbows... I try to tell them different lol