puking up my PWO shake.. why?

[canadianmuscle0803]

im not sure what's going on here but i just cant stomach my PWO shake.. it contains 50 grams whey, 100 grams dextrose, 10grams creatine and 5grams glutamine.. all i do is add water to it and i try to drink it slowly because of all the sugar but damn.. i always seem to puke it out.. anyone know whats up?

[baza]

im not sure what's going on here but i just cant stomach my PWO shake.. it contains 50 grams whey, 100 grams dextrose, 10grams creatine and 5grams glutamine.. all i do is add water to it and i try to drink it slowly because of all the sugar but damn.. i always seem to puke it out.. anyone know whats up?

Have you taken creatine a lot in the past?
If you haven't used it much, and not sure if your body can handle it, it is probably the creatine.

[proximo]

Maybe it's your brand of protein bro.
A buddy of mine gave me some chocolate flavoured NITROTECH, and I puked that out every time I drank it. I switched over to a different brand, and I had no more issues.

[baza]

Nitrotech also includes creatine.

[L3]

play around with taking out 1 of the ingredients at a time until you find out which one is the culprit...

[thecivilizedanimal]

you may just be dehydrated after your woprkout,

i hit most of my work outs had enough i'mgagging and just about puking after most, dehydration will make it worse,

[Durk]

That much creatine + that much dextrose = puke fest. When I tried to do a creatine load with cell tech it happened every time. I switched brands used less sugar and blamo no upset stomach

[Ron Partlow]

I think it's the dextrose. I think the practice of using dextrose is grossly overrated. I would recommend you just get a good carb powder, like a maltodextrin or waxy maize...whatever you like, and can stomach.

Pure sugar is crappy.

[L3]

if you dont mind me asking why do you take creatine post work out?

[cnelson09]

i had the same problem about a year ago and it was the dextrose so i switched to gatorade powder and i was fine. i know gatorade powder is still dextrose but i got a flavoured one and mixed it seperate from the whey and the problem went away.

[canadianmuscle0803]

if you dont mind me asking why do you take creatine post work out?

my trainer told me to.

[Ritch]

if you dont mind me asking why do you take creatine post work out?

I noticed in another thread you said not to take creatine post workout, why is that? It seems to me you deplete creatine stores during the workout and taking after is just a no brainer.

[JifeLacket]

Yea he said that on my thread too, im not going to stop taking it after, i will add it pre-workout though and see how that goes.

[L3]

what exactly are you going to do with your creatine stores after your workout? another workout?

try taking creatine pre workout for a week, then stop, and switch to taking it only post workout

i dont see a point for that extra 5 grams, unless you like to look bloated

[canadianmuscle0803]

im not sure what i said before.. but i just posted up my diet made by a IFBB pro.. check it out in the nutrition section.. im taking creatine pre and post workout.

[canadianmuscle0803]

what exactly are you going to do with your creatine stores after your workout? another workout?

try taking creatine pre workout for a week, then stop, and switch to taking it only post workout

i dont see a point for that extra 5 grams, unless you like to look bloated

like i said.. im just following a pros instructions.

[Ritch]

what exactly are you going to do with your creatine stores after your workout? another workout?

try taking creatine pre workout for a week, then stop, and switch to taking it only post workout

i dont see a point for that extra 5 grams, unless you like to look bloated

You take it after the workout to replenish creatine stores silly... And in between the next workout creatine stores are somewhat used, which is why we take it before. For mono, 90 minutes at least as that`s the time it peaks at.

If anything and had to choose one way of doing it, for sure it would be post workout as I feel max absorption happens then, plus creatine increases protein synthesis, another plus to use it post workout.

Who told you this method you seem to advocate of late?

[L3]

You take it after the workout to replenish creatine stores silly...


but the question is WHYYYYYYY do you need to replenish them AFTER your workout. oh, because a pro told me so? well, good thing i listen to everything my DOCTOR tells me, eh fellas?? eh???? ;)



Who told you this method you seem to advocate of late?

surprisingly enough i came to the conclusion on my own!

whatever works for you boys keep doing it :) i'm just stating my opinion on the internets is all

i eat a fair amount of red meat every day, and i rarely go off creatine... just thinking in the long run if i can limit the amoutn of at least one supplement i take i should try and do it, if the reason is logical and makes sense to me

[Ron Partlow]

I've always ONLY taken Creatine post-workout. I don't believe that taking it pre workout gives enough time to really do anything. Post workout is when it gets absorbed better and stored for the next session. it also have that hydrating effect which is very anabolic post workout. Like it best.....it's old school, but that's a good thing.

I've also never used any creatine other than mono. I still think it's the best.

Ron

[canadianmuscle0803]

I've always ONLY taken Creatine post-workout. I don't believe that taking it pre workout gives enough time to really do anything. Post workout is when it gets absorbed better and stored for the next session. it also have that hydrating effect which is very anabolic post workout. Like it best.....it's old school, but that's a good thing.

I've also never used any creatine other than mono. I still think it's the best.

Ron

hey Ron, you doing that nationals this year?

[jsv22]

I've always ONLY taken Creatine post-workout. I don't believe that taking it pre workout gives enough time to really do anything. Post workout is when it gets absorbed better and stored for the next session. it also have that hydrating effect which is very anabolic post workout. Like it best.....it's old school, but that's a good thing.

I've also never used any creatine other than mono. I still think it's the best.

Ron

It really doesn't matter when you take creatine since it doesn't work in an acute manner. when you start taking creatine your muscle total creatine increases (you can expedite this by loading) and once you get to that new higher (also your maximum creatine level), all you are doing is maintaining this new higher level with each daily dose.

Training doesn't dramatically decrease the amount of creatine in the muscle, your stores are usually replenished fully after about 2 minutes!

it works whenever you take it!

[O-Train]

It really doesn't matter when you take creatine since it doesn't work in an acute manner. when you start taking creatine your muscle total creatine increases (you can expedite this by loading) and once you get to that new higher (also your maximum creatine level), all you are doing is maintaining this new higher level with each daily dose.

Training doesn't dramatically decrease the amount of creatine in the muscle, your stores are usually replenished fully after about 2 minutes!

it works whenever you take it!

If you don't mind me asking what is it that you do (professionally) and what is your area of focus/expertise? I think you may have mentioned it but I forget.

[jsv22]

If you don't mind me asking what is it that you do (professionally) and what is your area of focus/expertise? I think you may have mentioned it but I forget.

i don't really do anything professionally lol. i'm currently doing a post graduate degree in nutrition, exercise, metabolism...specifically, my current focus is on the effects of varying carbohydrate quality on incretins response in type 2 diabetics...i'm also involved in some glycogen metabolism stuff...

[baza]

i don't really do anything professionally lol. i'm currently doing a post graduate degree in nutrition, exercise, metabolism...specifically, my current focus is on the effects of varying carbohydrate quality on incretins response in type 2 diabetics...i'm also involved in some glycogen metabolism stuff...

Very cool

[Ron Partlow]

It really doesn't matter when you take creatine since it doesn't work in an acute manner. when you start taking creatine your muscle total creatine increases (you can expedite this by loading) and once you get to that new higher (also your maximum creatine level), all you are doing is maintaining this new higher level with each daily dose.

Training doesn't dramatically decrease the amount of creatine in the muscle, your stores are usually replenished fully after about 2 minutes!

it works whenever you take it!

I essentially agree with you. You are right. However, I'm wondering if they have done studies on 300 pound hardcore bodybuilders taking in creatine after a brutal workout? They may have done studies on "athletes", or people "lifting weights", but I'm not sure that is good enough for me yet. You have to take it sometime, so why not post workout?

Ron

[Ron Partlow]

hey Ron, you doing that nationals this year?

Yes, i am doing Nationals. Things are going extremely well.

Ron

[O-Train]

i don't really do anything professionally lol. i'm currently doing a post graduate degree in nutrition, exercise, metabolism...specifically, my current focus is on the effects of varying carbohydrate quality on incretins response in type 2 diabetics...i'm also involved in some glycogen metabolism stuff...

Very interesting.

Ritch mentioned that creatine increases protein synthesis. I've never heard this before, any literature?

I was going to post my views but instead I'll let Wiki do the talking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphocreatine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatine_supplements

What I found interesting is that they have been doing research on creatine ingestion since 1912. The second wiki article mentions that CEE may actually be inferior to creatine monohydrate although they really havn't done much research on CEE.

[canadianmuscle0803]

Yes, i am doing Nationals. Things are going extremely well.

Ron

what are you currently weighing? post some pics bro.

[jsv22]

I essentially agree with you. You are right. However, I'm wondering if they have done studies on 300 pound hardcore bodybuilders taking in creatine after a brutal workout? They may have done studies on "athletes", or people "lifting weights", but I'm not sure that is good enough for me yet. You have to take it sometime, so why not post workout?

Ron

Hey Ron,
i don't think there has been research on this extreme (i'm no expert in this field). Someone who is at this level of training (i.e. has an much larger percent of glycolytic muscle fibers (type IIa and IIb/x) may respond differently...also when you factor in other supps there could be an additive or synergistic effect...again much of this i'm not sure of?

I agree 100% with you, post workout is a fine time to take it, however if you want to take advantage of this post workout time frame it may be prudent to consume it right before you start training since blood levels will peak around 1.5 hours and stay elevated for the next 5 hours (i also use this argument for consuming a protein shake before training)...so during and after your workout you will have elevated levels of creatine in your blood...

I still dont' think that timing with creatine is all that important however, as it doesn't increase the rate of phosphocreatine (PCr) resynthesis after exercise, it just increases the total amount of creatine and PCr in the muscle.....

[jsv22]

Very interesting.

Ritch mentioned that creatine increases protein synthesis. I've never heard this before, any literature?

I was going to post my views but instead I'll let Wiki do the talking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphocreatine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatine_supplements

What I found interesting is that they have been doing research on creatine ingestion since 1912. The second wiki article mentions that CEE may actually be inferior to creatine monohydrate although they really havn't done much research on CEE.


The fact that creatine increases the volume of muscle cells (ie. instantaneous wt gain when taking it) causes an increase in protein synthesis (or so it is thought). There isn't much proof of this really though! but many studies show an increase in strength almost immediately after supplementation has started....this coupled with weight training would be 2 different stimulus and has been shown to cause increases in body weight that is not associated with an increase in muscle water content.
body mass increases 0.5 to 2.5 kg (depending on the person) after supplementation. it is unclear how much of the weight is from 1) the anabolic effects of creatine on protein synthesis 2) osmolarity based retention of intracellular water from creatine stores or 3) satellite cell proliferation or increased nuclei, etc

all i really know is that it works lol

regarding CEE, i'm not surprised by what that article states...however it probably still works pretty well too...as long as some get's to the muscles it's going to work to some degree...and the fact remains that most guys take a lot of unneeded creatine so if a smaller portion of it reaches the muscle it will still have a similar effectiveness

for example, (this is from a study by Hultman et al. J Appl. Physiol 81: 232-237) the basal (or non supplemented) amount of creatine in the muscle is about 125mmol/kg dry mass (DM) (this can vary a lot tho) and the MAX amount of creatine in the muscle after creatine supplementation is about 145mmol/kg DM. now you can get to this limit within 4-6 days of 20g/day loading...if you discontinued creatine at this point (day 7 on), at day 21 your muscle creatine levels will still be at about 135mmol/kg...after 35 days you'll still be slightly elevated, but not statistically different from baseline (130 mmol/kg)!! so the effect seems to be prolonged even after discontinuation...

HOWEVER, if you do the same loading protocol and then continue with only 2g/day (day 7 to day 35) you can keep the highest level of creatine in the muscle (145mmol/kg DM) for the entire 35 days....which is pretty wild frankly...

so for those who take 20g of CEE a day, if even a small percent of this is absorbed and taken up by the muscle, you will probably still get a very similar effect...

[Ron Partlow]

Hey Ron,
i don't think there has been research on this extreme (i'm no expert in this field). Someone who is at this level of training (i.e. has an much larger percent of glycolytic muscle fibers (type IIa and IIb/x) may respond differently...also when you factor in other supps there could be an additive or synergistic effect...again much of this i'm not sure of?

I agree 100% with you, post workout is a fine time to take it, however if you want to take advantage of this post workout time frame it may be prudent to consume it right before you start training since blood levels will peak around 1.5 hours and stay elevated for the next 5 hours (i also use this argument for consuming a protein shake before training)...so during and after your workout you will have elevated levels of creatine in your blood...

I still dont' think that timing with creatine is all that important however, as it doesn't increase the rate of phosphocreatine (PCr) resynthesis after exercise, it just increases the total amount of creatine and PCr in the muscle.....

Ya, totally. I agree with the theory of having a shake right before training, but it doesn't work for me at all because I have a sensitive stomach.....I puke a lot, LOL.....Leg day, NO WAY. I need an empty stomach for legs, back and chest. So instead I eat a slower meal, like steak and rice about 60 minutes before training. Essentially, I think the post workout "window" is overhyped, usually by companies. I have had great success just being really consistent with meals and keeping protein and carbs spread out over the day.

I do eat/have a shake right after training. When dieting, it's because I'm hungry, and in the off season I do it so i don't fall behind on my meals.

As far as prep pics, I'll do one better.....I'm putting video up soon. I'll keep you posted.

Cheers
Ron

[L3]

As far as prep pics, I'll do one better.....I'm putting video up soon. I'll keep you posted.
Cheers
Ron

checked out your site bro... you're a serious customer, thats for sure. looking forward to the vid! :yeah