Unnatural weightloss log

[natenator]

I think it's fine. Only way to tell is to try it. You will rebound a bit by the very nature of putting carbs back into play but will likely mostly be water weight. Keep the cardio going as you have listed, pound the weights hard but quick (your coming off to volume should be reduced a bit) and get lots of rest.

[wolfman6328]

hi guys, I have been following this log for a while and I just have a quick question regarding some of the stuff mentioned. It seems that the use of test/eq seems pretty widespread here. I was just curious about how you guys deal with joint pain from a couple of long test cycles (upwards of 15 weeks) since high testosterone level is known to deownregulate collagen synthase and thereby 'mess' your cartillage/ligaments and dramatically increase the probablity of related injury while lifting. The only cure for the collagen synthase issue, as far as I know so far, is either including deca (even in small doses like 100mg/week it accomplishes this task) or hGH. I personally noticed pretty bad elbow pain around the end of my second cycle (I used test-blend only for my first two) and so I included deca in a 600mg/300mg test-deca ratio which did wonders for my elbows and joints in general. I mean, it was only after I added deca, and even then it took 8 weeks or so to really feel it, that I found I could utilize my "full" muscle strength on moves like bench and tricep pushdowns on a lat machine when doing 8-10 reps. yeah, so basically i am just wondering how you guys deal with joint pain from test cycling.

[daande]

hi guys, I have been following this log for a while and I just have a quick question regarding some of the stuff mentioned. It seems that the use of test/eq seems pretty widespread here. I was just curious about how you guys deal with joint pain from a couple of long test cycles (upwards of 15 weeks) since high testosterone level is known to deownregulate collagen synthase and thereby 'mess' your cartillage/ligaments and dramatically increase the probablity of related injury while lifting. The only cure for the collagen synthase issue, as far as I know so far, is either including deca (even in small doses like 100mg/week it accomplishes this task) or hGH. I personally noticed pretty bad elbow pain around the end of my second cycle (I used test-blend only for my first two) and so I included deca in a 600mg/300mg test-deca ratio which did wonders for my elbows and joints in general. I mean, it was only after I added deca, and even then it took 8 weeks or so to really feel it, that I found I could utilize my "full" muscle strength on moves like bench and tricep pushdowns on a lat machine when doing 8-10 reps. yeah, so basically i am just wondering how you guys deal with joint pain from test cycling.

Long warmups! I have heard people running 100mg of deca a week to help with join pain.

[trainharder]

hi guys, I have been following this log for a while and I just have a quick question regarding some of the stuff mentioned. It seems that the use of test/eq seems pretty widespread here. I was just curious about how you guys deal with joint pain from a couple of long test cycles (upwards of 15 weeks) since high testosterone level is known to deownregulate collagen synthase and thereby 'mess' your cartillage/ligaments and dramatically increase the probablity of related injury while lifting. The only cure for the collagen synthase issue, as far as I know so far, is either including deca (even in small doses like 100mg/week it accomplishes this task) or hGH. I personally noticed pretty bad elbow pain around the end of my second cycle (I used test-blend only for my first two) and so I included deca in a 600mg/300mg test-deca ratio which did wonders for my elbows and joints in general. I mean, it was only after I added deca, and even then it took 8 weeks or so to really feel it, that I found I could utilize my "full" muscle strength on moves like bench and tricep pushdowns on a lat machine when doing 8-10 reps. yeah, so basically i am just wondering how you guys deal with joint pain from test cycling.

EQ is actually more effective than Deca at increasing collagen synthesis.

Increase skeletal muscle & collagen synthesis with certain AAS

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(originally posted by AnimalMass)

While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle Clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.

[IndraArya]

Daande is like a giant baby. I mean this in a good way. He reminds of a dear friend of mine.
I get real kick out of all of the cutesy "haha's" he adds in when he does something wrong or bad!
I am just wondering about the long time this took for him to get cut and the stubborn gains in strength.

I am not on anything and squat 405 for 6 reps as my last set, Incline DB press 90lbs for last set of 8 reps, Shoulder press 2 big wheels a side on Smith Machine for 8 reps on last 2 sets of shoulders and sometime add a 25 a side for last set of 6 reps.

That is just a sample of my training for comparison with Daande (who is using a variety of stuff in his cycle plus the thyroxine, clen, and ECA, etc).

However the progress he made is positive no doubt!

Pity he did not go whole hog with the ketosis. First 2 weeks should have been a hell ride of as close to zero carbs as one can get.......this would bring on some headaches, nausea, light-headedness etc., but it passes and after the 2 weeks you can start to up your carbs to 20g-30g daily......and adjust to 40 if you wish.
With that process I am sure he would have lost the fat very quickly in the first 2-3 weeks......

First 2 weeks of near zero carbs then trying carbs makes one feel ill......it is a good motivator to not touch refined flour, sugar etc.

Just my two cents or so.......
I know you guys have made this your lifestyle big time.........I am not criticizing anyone.......just find it interesting in terms of individual variability. Neat stuff.