Waxy Maize

[Drummer]

A lot of the advertising done on waxy maize seems to be misleading. Claiming that a higher molecular weight allows the carb to pass the stomach and absorb more quickly then just about any other carb, with no stomach discomfort.

The truth about it is that is absorbs slower then say, dextrose. That statement is backed by solid studies. Thats prolly why its easier on your stomach too. Apparently, it does NOT cause the insuline spike that is so pushed by some ads.

Without getting to long winded about it, from what ive been reading, waxy maize is a very good slow digesting carb, perfect for pre-workout or maybe even in-workout.

Feel free to add your input!

~D~

[JonnyO]

What it really boils down to is what works for you. Some can handle it some cant. Some cant stomach dextrose some can. If it aint broken dont fix it. Its not really going to make that huge of a difference anyways and people tend to over complicate things. Of course the supplements companies will make claims that arent all that true, they been doing this since day 1.

Waxy is a higher molecular weight carb, its been proven to be higher than dextrose many times over. It enters the gastrointestinal tract much much faster and is in and out very fast. I prefer it over dextrose because it doesnt make me nauseaus but for some dex is fine so why bother changing it.

This is a pissing match that has been going on for years bro, lol.

[baza]

I tried it, and in my opinion, dextrose works just fine, is dirt cheap, so no point on spending the extra money.

[ubcpower]

Jonny0, do you suggest using waxy maize primarily around workouts (pre and post) or would u suggest using it also in shakes throughout the day instead of say oats

[jsv22]

someone posted this before,

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/waxy_maize_starch_myth.htm

IMO the source of carbohydrate doesn't matter, as long as you ingest some! whatever floats your boat really

[natenator]

What it really boils down to is what works for you. Some can handle it some cant. Some cant stomach dextrose some can. If it aint broken dont fix it. Its not really going to make that huge of a difference anyways and people tend to over complicate things. Of course the supplements companies will make claims that arent all that true, they been doing this since day 1.

Waxy is a higher molecular weight carb, its been proven to be higher than dextrose many times over. It enters the gastrointestinal tract much much faster and is in and out very fast. I prefer it over dextrose because it doesnt make me nauseaus but for some dex is fine so why bother changing it.

This is a pissing match that has been going on for years bro, lol.
I preferred your original answer lol

[Drummer]

The source of carbohydrate absolutely matters. If you want an insuline spike, you take a carb that does that. If you dont, you dont. Thats about the extent of it from where im standing. I personally prefer the insuline spike right after a workout, and slow carbs all other time.

The thing about the waxy tho, its actually digested SLOWLY from the studies i came across. Doesnt matter how fast it passes the stomach. Its in the intestine, getting absorbed, that matters.

Anyway, im just digging into this now, as i have a bunch of free time and am mostly interested in the best pre and post workout nutrition and supps. Kinda why im poking around waxy.

~D~

[Drummer]

I preferred your original answer lol

i must have missed his original answer

~D

[baldsamson]

way to much sodium in it for me, especially while trying to cut. I`ve cut the maize to half of what the recommended dosage says.

[JonnyO]

Jonny0, do you suggest using waxy maize primarily around workouts (pre and post) or would u suggest using it also in shakes throughout the day instead of say oats

Nope, just pre if you want and post.

Drummer please post these studies that show that WMS is slow digesting because that is opposite everything I've seen about it. Also remember there are differing qualities of WMS, so you have to consider the source. Some WMS arent manufactured properly and I would guess those would have been sued in some studies making them unreliable.

[JonnyO]

If you really want to do a test get a glucometer and take sample pre and post waxy. I think I remember reading that it doesnt actually spike insulin levels, but it's osmolality (sp) is why you take it for its shuttling properties w/o the insulin spike.

[jsv22]

The source of carbohydrate absolutely matters. If you want an insuline spike, you take a carb that does that. If you dont, you dont. Thats about the extent of it from where im standing. I personally prefer the insuline spike right after a workout, and slow carbs all other time.

The thing about the waxy tho, its actually digested SLOWLY from the studies i came across. Doesnt matter how fast it passes the stomach. Its in the intestine, getting absorbed, that matters.


All carbohydrates will cause an insulin spike...simple sugars get into your system the fastest and cause the greatest increase in insulin. More complex carbs will be slower and cause a smaller increase in insulin but the insulin 'spike' will be more prolonged.

The main component of insulin release are hormones called incretins which are relased from the gut and act on the pancreas to stimulate insuln relase. these incretin hormones are responsible for 50-70% of insulin released in response to a meal.

If you want to slow simple carbs from being assimilated, you need to slow gastric emptying. the best way to do this would be to add some fiber (i use metamucil or ground oats) or fats...

[jsv22]

If you really want to do a test get a glucometer and take sample pre and post waxy. I think I remember reading that it doesnt actually spike insulin levels, but it's osmolality (sp) is why you take it for its shuttling properties w/o the insulin spike.

for people who are non diabetic your blood glucose should not fluctuate very much...athletes have an amazing ability to handle HUGE amounts of glucose without very large fluctuation in blood sugar levels...for example, typical blood glucose is around 5mmol/L, if an athlete drinks 100g of carbs, the blood glucose will only increase to about 8mmol/L MAX (assuming they aren't a diabetic)..

[Ritch]

Tried it, won`t be using it again.

[JonnyO]

Tried it, won`t be using it again.


Thats because you too cheap, lmao. Sorry buddy couldnt resist. ;)

[Drummer]

Nope, just pre if you want and post.

Drummer please post these studies that show that WMS is slow digesting because that is opposite everything I've seen about it. Also remember there are differing qualities of WMS, so you have to consider the source. Some WMS arent manufactured properly and I would guess those would have been sued in some studies making them unreliable.

Ok, i will dig up what i can.

~D~

[Drummer]

If you really want to do a test get a glucometer and take sample pre and post waxy. I think I remember reading that it doesnt actually spike insulin levels, but it's osmolality (sp) is why you take it for its shuttling properties w/o the insulin spike.

I read that too for sure... im wondering how exactly that works, and as for the shuttling properties, i believe i would use it for that alone. Whats with the sodium content mentioned above? It has sodium in it? Must have overlooked that :(

~D~

[Drummer]

Tried it, won`t be using it again.

If you dont mind me asking Ritch, why?

[Ritch]

Thats because you too cheap, lmao. Sorry buddy couldnt resist. ;)

You`re right about that...

[Ritch]

If you dont mind me asking Ritch, why?

I`m in a rush so will make this quick. The "super pumps" they talk about is bullshit. Didn`t notice any superior absorption from the creatine, was even using CEE at the time with big doses of arginine ethyl ester and bcaa. The water retention they talk of (being less) I can say is ture either. So at 20x`s the price of gatorade, this product is not worthy in my opinion. Plus it tastes like melted candles. Maybe you will see different results.

[Drummer]

Damn im having a hard time locating official studies... but i only had like 20 mins here. But i see a lot of article referring to studies, although anyone can say anything -

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=139

[JonnyO]

Dextrose is a higher GI carb than Waxy yes, but try taking in 100g Dextrose tell me how you feel, then try 100g Waxy and tell me the difference. Most guys when they go over 50g Dex will get stomach discomfort, with waxy its not too common with the exception of a few. I will say that I need to be careful and back off on WMS and kind of cycle it because sometimes if I keep taking in high amounts for long periods of time I will get gassy, but if I back off a bit for a week or two I am fine. And for the record I am not against dextrose, we all have our favorites, I just happen to prefer waxy.

[JonnyO]

I`m in a rush so will make this quick. The "super pumps" they talk about is bullshit. Didn`t notice any superior absorption from the creatine, was even using CEE at the time with big doses of arginine ethyl ester and bcaa. The water retention they talk of (being less) I can say is ture either. So at 20x`s the price of gatorade, this product is not worthy in my opinion. Plus it tastes like melted candles. Maybe you will see different results.

"They" are the ads bro and you have to take that with a grain of salt. It's not like Dbol or anadrol where your going to really notice it...its just a carbohydrate.

[Ritch]

Dextrose is a higher GI carb than Waxy yes, but try taking in 100g Dextrose tell me how you feel, then try 100g Waxy and tell me the difference. Most guys when they go over 50g Dex will get stomach discomfort, with waxy its not too common with the exception of a few. I will say that I need to be careful and back off on WMS and kind of cycle it because sometimes if I keep taking in high amounts for long periods of time I will get gassy, but if I back off a bit for a week or two I am fine. And for the record I am not against dextrose, we all have our favorites, I just happen to prefer waxy.

I understand what you say about the stomach discomfort with dextrose. Milos was saying for most people you will get the benefits of waxy maise if you use 75 grams or more. Because of the stomach problems with dextrose waxy comes a better option at the 75 gram plus doses. Personally I always consume 100 grams of dextrose post workout with creatine and taurine. I sip it over 20 minutes and rarely get stomach problems. Then drink the whey shake...

Well most people don`t even use more than 75 grams of dextrose or waxy so how are they even going to benefit of the supposed digestion properties of it? Say a guy had a bad tolerance to sugar and wanted to up his carb intake post workout, a combo of each would be a good choice. So if you dont`fall in that category of person I still say it`s a waste of money.

[Drummer]

I guess its safe to say that it has its place. I personally only use about 50 grams dex, 50 grams protein, 5 gram creapure, 5 grams glutamine post all in one shake and my stomach is fine. For the price, ill prolly stick to that unless i decide to go bigger.

~D~