need help please

[laslo101]

so i just signed up to this forum and finding alot of insight on everyones posts but i think that alot are to intense for me or maybe i need a reality check.

i'm 17 187 lbs 6' . around 14.5 % bf work out 5 days a week . wondering if it is beneficial to cut i want to have the 6 pack and right now i have a starting 4 showing through. i do 30 min hiit cardio 4 days a week either stair, or eliptical. any help on a diet would be greatly appreciated because even after reading through other posts i am lost wiether i need to first bulk or cut.

thank you very much

[ubcpower]

At your age i would just try to maintain your current bf levels and add size slowly...have a read through some of diet sections on this site, when you decide on one, post it so we can help out.
You are at a prime age for putting on quality muscle and size. Your natural testosterone levels are peaking and as long as you lift with good form and eat your injuries will be minimal

[natenator]

^^^agree. Size does matter

[laslo101]

ok thank you very much i will look for a diet today... i have never taken a creatine or anything either should i ? just protein in the mourning. as for my work out i do

bi tri
pull downs 4 sets
incline skull crushers 4 sets
over head extensions 4 sets
one arm extensions pull downs 4 sets
decline skull crushers 4 sets

seated db curls 4 sets
preacher curl close grip 4 sets
preacher curl wide grip 4 sets
db across chest curl 4 sets
21's 3 sets


chest shoulder
7 sets decline bp
6 sets incline bp
4 sets flat
4 sets cable fly
4 sets close grip push outs

front db raises 3 sets
side db raises 3 sets
barbell raises to chin 4 sets
shoulderpress with bar 4 sets
shoulderpress with db 4 sets
shrugs with db 3 sets
shrugs with bar 3 sets

back legs
lat pull down 4 sets
behind head pull downs 4 sets
t bar 4 sets
close grip seated pull 4 sets
over bench raises 4 sets
lat cable pull 4 sets

leg press 4 sets
squats 3 sets
standing reverse curl 4 sets
calf raises 4 sets
seated calf raises 4 sets
abs all days
most excersises i aim for 8 - 10 reps

any help greatly appreciated thank you

[laslo101]

ok so i have been reading up on the keto diet. is this a good example of something i should do to cut down and is what i post here what i shouyld be eating on this diet. my main goal is to be around 8 % bf so i can begin a bulk after summer. all to start my road to natural body building aswell any supp suggestions or just eat ? anyways heres the meal plan


730 a.m 4 eggs, 50 gram protein shake banana

9 30 a.m handful almonds, yogurt 4 little cups

12:00 chicken breast ,brocoli 1 cup

2 p.m turkey , shrimp, handful almonds

4 30 p.m pre work out 2 cups oats and 50 gram protein shake

post workout 50 gram protein shake ,banana


8 00 p.m
2 cups brown rice orange ruffy

[LonelyBedouin]

Correct me if Im wrong, but Keto diets usually are very trace amounts of carbs (just pre/post workout). So the brown rice and yogurt cups could be placed in a better position, and simple carbs post workout and complex preworkout.

[laslo101]

ok so the rice only after workout or not at all ? and no yogurt ?

[gsxr750]

I'd say don't do the keto. You're already very lean man. Focus on adding some lean mass like UBC said, this will drop your BF percentage too as you're gaining muscle weight. Take advantage of being young and your growth potential.

Here is one of Dave P's 'lean bulker' diets, something to look at and maybe discuss. It's not expensive, and easy to follow...as an example:

MEAL 1:
6 whole eggs (buy the OMEGA-3 EGGS they sell in the supermarket) with 1 cup of Oatmeal (cooked)

MEAL 2: (pre-workout)
SHAKE: 55g Whey Protein** with 40g Waxy Maize*** (high molecular weight carbohydrate) with 1 tablespoon of Macadamia Nut Oil

GYM: WEIGHT TRAINING

MEAL 3: (post-workout)
SHAKE: 55g Whey Protein** with 50g Waxy Maize*** (high molecular weight carbohydrate).

MEAL 4:
LEAN PROTEIN MEAL- 8oz (cooked) of chicken (or turkey or lean fish or shrimp)-- with 1/4 cup cashew nuts (or almonds or walnuts) with 1 cup (cooked) RICE (brown)

MEAL 5:
FATTY PROTEIN MEAL 8oz (cooked) of red meat (or salmon or swordfish) with a salad with 2 tablespoon of olive oil (or macadamia nut oil) and vinegar with 1 baked potato and/or yam

MEAL 6: Repeat One of Above

MEAL 7: 5 whole eggs

[laslo101]

ok that sounds very good thank you for the advice i wasn't sure if that would work if i did a lean bulk or i had to cut first.. but i go to the gym around 5 so i can just switch the meal times around correct pending on my workout time as long as i stick with the pre and post workout meal

[jsv22]

are you an athlete? what are your goals?

[LonelyBedouin]

ok that sounds very good thank you for the advice i wasn't sure if that would work if i did a lean bulk or i had to cut first.. but i go to the gym around 5 so i can just switch the meal times around correct pending on my workout time as long as i stick with the pre and post workout meal

Yea you can switch em around, although just make sure you know your maintenance level and what you need to gain weight. Then adjust portion sizes for yourself

[laslo101]

i do play hockey and i used to to boxing but my goals are to get into training to do body building competitions by this time next year . and lonely aren't the diet portion set out already ? and so how much weight should i gain.. and will it be fat ?

[LonelyBedouin]

Those portions are generic, and were just randomly created. You would need to find your BMR and TDEE. From there add a couple hundred calories (100-300) for a lean bulk.

BMR: is the amount of energy expended while at rest in a neutrally temperate environment

BMR (men and women) = 370 + (21.6 X lean mass in kg)


Then, using the BMR, TDEE is calculated using the activity multiplier:

TDEE: total daily energy expenditure
Activity Multiplier:

Sedentary = BMR X 1.2 (little or no exercise, desk job)
Lightly active = BMR X 1.375 (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk)
Mod. active = BMR X 1.55 (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/wk)
Very active = BMR X 1.725 (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days/wk)
Extr. active = BMR X 1.9 (hard daily exercise/sports & physical job or 2X day training)

With 100-300 you should gain roughly 0.5-1lb a week hopefully keeping all gains lean

[laslo101]

ok so i do my bf % - my total body weight ? i am 187to 190 lbs so that is 95 klg
?
so is it just 95 x 21.6+ 370= or do i need to find my weight minus my bf ? sorry for not understanding

[LonelyBedouin]

Total weight x bf in decimel form = total bf weight

Total weight - total bf weight = total lean body mass

if your total lean body mass is in lbs, u can divide it by 2.2 to get it in kilograms..

[laslo101]

ok thank you so my calculations are 3387...

[LIVEHARD]

ok thank you very much i will look for a diet today... i have never taken a creatine or anything either should i ? just protein in the mourning. as for my work out i do

bi tri
pull downs 4 sets
incline skull crushers 4 sets
over head extensions 4 sets
one arm extensions pull downs 4 sets
decline skull crushers 4 sets

seated db curls 4 sets
preacher curl close grip 4 sets
preacher curl wide grip 4 sets
db across chest curl 4 sets
21's 3 sets


chest shoulder
7 sets decline bp
6 sets incline bp
4 sets flat
4 sets cable fly
4 sets close grip push outs

front db raises 3 sets
side db raises 3 sets
barbell raises to chin 4 sets
shoulderpress with bar 4 sets
shoulderpress with db 4 sets
shrugs with db 3 sets
shrugs with bar 3 sets

back legs
lat pull down 4 sets
behind head pull downs 4 sets
t bar 4 sets
close grip seated pull 4 sets
over bench raises 4 sets
lat cable pull 4 sets

leg press 4 sets
squats 3 sets
standing reverse curl 4 sets
calf raises 4 sets
seated calf raises 4 sets
abs all days
most excersises i aim for 8 - 10 reps

any help greatly appreciated thank you

First off Diet Diet !!

Your are way to young to ever explore the darks side so please wait.
You can try a four day split.

Something like this

Day 1 / chest & biceps
Day 2 / Legs
Day 3 / off ( or add cardio for that six pack )
Day 4 / shoulders & triceps
Day 5 / back
Day 6 off ( or add cardio )
Day 7 off or repeat day 1 It's your call Listen to your body at 17 your still growing so lots of rest will only benefit you.

Or another option is a five day split

Day 1 / back
Day 2 / shoulders
Day 3 / off (or you know )
Day 4 / legs
Day 6 / chest
Day 7 / arm's
Day 8/ off ( or ? )

Then repeat it all over again.

Remember its all about you what works for me might not work for you

It's life long!

Trial and error Ups and downs

Biggest thing is your Diet / getting to the gym and staying healthy both mentally and physically.

Best & good luck

[laslo101]

what is the darkside lol no rest days or ? because i do have them i go through the roation of all and then take one day off usually. but never go through 2 times before rest day. and yes lol im going to be starting diet on monday.

[LIVEHARD]

what is the dark side lol no rest days or ? because i do have them i go through the roation of all and then take one day off usually. but never go through 2 times before rest day. and yes lol I'm going to be starting diet on Monday.

Your from the Hammer !! Its dark enough in your town I have watched the downtown turn into a shit hole over the years.

Did a few films in the past at Coops

Well the dark side Gear in the rear! / juice / gas / aas /

The dark side will come !! Learn till then I would say 10 years at least

Later young man all you have is time Body Building is a life sentence

[laslo101]

lol oh ok nah i'm actually determined to do this naturally. but thanks for the advice it is definitely out there, but i'l stay away.

[LIVEHARD]

what is the dark side lol no rest days or ? because i do have them i go through the roation of all and then take one day off usually. but never go through 2 times before rest day. and yes lol I'm going to be starting diet on Monday.

i recomend a 4 or five day split

with a 3 day means your hitting everything twice a week unless you do

day 1 gym
day 2 off
day 3 gym
day 4 off
day 5 gym
day 6 off

then back to day 1

If your going to train like that ( twice a week )

you have to Up the food ( calorie intake )

Or decrees the volume of your work outs

Over training is just as bad as not training enough

so one day per body part every 6-7 days

[Danger]

So you are currently doing a 3 way split? That workout plan looks kinda crazy to me, unless you lift shit for weight thats WAY too many sets/exercies per day.

Just on Back/Leg day you are doing something like 32 sets with 8-10 reps...

You are also doing some just silly stuff, like doing sets with a bar and then sets with DB's, why not alternate every other workout instead. Ab's on Back/Leg day... that makes no sense at all since most back/leg exercises are already very demanding on your core.

Anyway your workout plan is a pretty big mess overall, you should put some time into a program like 5x5 or WSFSB, at your age anything will work but your wasting you time with what you wrote out above.

As for bulking or cutting, you weigh 187lbs... if the anwser isint clear just looking at that number I dunno what to say.

[laslo101]

well my overall goal is to train for body building competitions but i have been told i need to do a lean bulk first because i am at 14 - 15 % bf so i need to be down around the 8 ish for a more successful bulk according to my readings. and yes what you said about my workouts does make sense thank you. i am learning and thats why i am posting things on here to learn. i try to read and learn things but the people on here are very knowledgeable and are a great. i will post pics so people can tell me straight up what needs done. 9076

9077

9078

[Danger]

Huh, what did you read that says you cant add muscle unless you are at 8%... have you been reading Chris Shugarts crap on T-nation? be honest!

[LIVEHARD]

eat eat eat eat eat eat eat eat and eat again

food food food food food food food food and more F'King food

[LIVEHARD]

I almost forgot EEEAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTTT F'K

[laslo101]

it was more or less saying that if i bulk now my bf will be very high making it alot harder to cut down. and i was told to do a lean bulk but maybe that was before pics lol. like i said all help is definitely appreciated. and so a work out would be like

back/ legs
arms
chest
rest ?

[Danger]

A good 5 way split is:

Legs
Chest
Back
off
Shoulders
Arms
off

but there are a ton of options, I find that working the muscle groups that need the most work early in the week really helps.

[laslo101]

ok ya i like that split sounds good... ok and 5x5 that is 5 sets with 5 reps max and you up the weight until fifth set is maxd out at 5

[TheNaturalBodybuilder]

Why would you not do a clean bulk? What do you consider to not be a clean bulk? Eating slow digesting carbs ( wild rice, potatoes ), good sources of protein ( chicken, fish, turkey, lean cuts of beef, eggs ) and your greens. Of course their is much more but those are examples. You just eat more of them than you would in a cut. Especially the carb sources.

[laslo101]

MEAL 1:
6 whole eggs (buy the OMEGA-3 EGGS they sell in the supermarket) with 1 cup of Oatmeal (cooked)

MEAL 2: (pre-workout)
SHAKE: 55g Whey Protein** with 40g Waxy Maize*** (high molecular weight carbohydrate) with 1 tablespoon of Macadamia Nut Oil

GYM: WEIGHT TRAINING

MEAL 3: (post-workout)
SHAKE: 55g Whey Protein** with 50g Waxy Maize*** (high molecular weight carbohydrate).

MEAL 4:
LEAN PROTEIN MEAL- 8oz (cooked) of chicken (or turkey or lean fish or shrimp)-- with 1/4 cup cashew nuts (or almonds or walnuts) with 1 cup (cooked) RICE (brown)

MEAL 5:
FATTY PROTEIN MEAL 8oz (cooked) of red meat (or salmon or swordfish) with a salad with 2 tablespoon of olive oil (or macadamia nut oil) and vinegar with 1 baked potato and/or yam

MEAL 6: Repeat One of Above

MEAL 7: 5 whole eggs



so that work out with this diet a good place to start >?

[gsxr750]

It's good you're young and can take constructive critisicsm. Keep asking your questions here you will get honest answers from guys who have been where you are and made excellent progress.

PS nice lube and stuffed monkey in the first pic i'd F the shit out of that thing. If I see you around the Hammer i'm giving you hard time for that :P

[laslo101]

its warming ;) lol ya i have good gf. but no i am loving learning all of this so give whatever you got i have lots to learn and i want to do this right not half assd

[warlock]

Go to the nutrition section and read as much as possible, learn how to cook food from scratch and you will grow like a week and never get bored of what you eat and not have to eat junk and poison yourself.

In terms of training: lift heavy stuff and give time for your body to recover as well.
A good rule of thumb is to never lift heavy for more than 2 consecutive days and not rest for more than 2 consecutive days as well.

Plan what you will do.

Sit for a while and determine what you want to achieve (get big), in order to get big you need to lift heavy weight, therefore you have to get strong as well, pushing hard for a while may be hard in your body therefore you have to recover. This is the basics of periodization.

Learn about diet, them about training, them about your endocrine system, always lift with perfect for using a balanced program and you will be able to keep training and advancing non- stop.

Good luck

[LIVEHARD]

ok ya i like that split sounds good... ok and 5x5 that is 5 sets with 5 reps max and you up the weight until fifth set is maxed out at 5

Did you eat today ???

I'm on meal 2 going for meal 3 in a hour

Its my day off from the gym and Saturday's and Sundays so I enjoy restaurant food

DID YOU EAT TODAY

[LIVEHARD]

Go to the nutrition section and read as much as possible, learn how to cook food from scratch and you will grow like a week and never get bored of what you eat and not have to eat junk and poison yourself.

In terms of training: lift heavy stuff and give time for your body to recover as well.
A good rule of thumb is to never lift heavy for more than 2 consecutive days and not rest for more than 2 consecutive days as well.

Plan what you will do.

Sit for a while and determine what you want to achieve (get big), in order to get big you need to lift heavy weight, therefore you have to get strong as well, pushing hard for a while may be hard in your body therefore you have to recover. This is the basics of periodization.

Learn about diet, them about training, them about your endocrine system, always lift with perfect for using a balanced program and you will be able to keep training and advancing non- stop.

Good luck

When your ready Pm Drummer he has a bow flex for sale (JK) LOL

:flagC

[laslo101]

lol ok so that diet i reposted that someone gave me is good for what i want to do yes ? i want to do a clean bulk get big but minimize bf increase? i really just want to get this right. and i am going to follow the 5 split. thanks for everyones help. and yes i will eat eat eat livehard.... making sure it is clean foods like brown rice, greens, fish, banana, chicken , lean ground beef and much more but that is the jist aslong as i am around 3350 cals a day i shouldn't gain to much fatty weight. but one last question cardio ? 20 min low intensity a good way to go for my goals ?

[TheNaturalBodybuilder]

I would use a better carb source pre and post workout. Use real food not the stuff in a powder. Nothing beats real food. A protein shake is good post workout to get the protein immediately into your body but not in a carb source.

If your bulking you dont need much cardio at all. Maybe a couple times per week just for conditioning and keep it separate from your weight training.

[laslo101]

ok thank you very much natural helps alot so im going to go with that diet with a 5 day split of ; shoulder, back, legs,rest, chest , arms, rest and cardio on rest days and abs everyday. doing all workouts at 7 reps max lifting heavy, with 40 sec intervals between sets. and a better carb before could be like natural pb on w/w ?

[LonelyBedouin]

I would use a better carb source pre and post workout. Use real food not the stuff in a powder. Nothing beats real food. A protein shake is good post workout to get the protein immediately into your body but not in a carb source.

If your bulking you dont need much cardio at all. Maybe a couple times per week just for conditioning and keep it separate from your weight training.

I dont know his pre workout could be fine just depending on the timing of his first and second meal. If there closer together then that pre-workout shake is fine. If there spread apart then change it.


ok thank you very much natural helps alot so im going to go with that diet with a 5 day split of ; shoulder, back, legs,rest, chest , arms, rest and cardio on rest days and abs everyday. doing all workouts at 7 reps max lifting heavy, with 40 sec intervals between sets. and a better carb before could be like natural pb on w/w ?

Why dont you put arms with shoulders? Those two workouts shouldnt take you vary long if done seperately so why not take a extra day off or shorten your trainging split

Day 1: Shoulders/Arms
Day 2: Back
Day 3: Legs
Day 4: Rest/cardio
Day 5: Chest
Day 6: Rest/cardio
Day 7: Repeat cycle

And for your rest time 45 seconds is fine, but you might want to take a longer rest for larger body parts (ie. quads..) general rule 60-90 seconds rest is good

[hulkster]

wow this has been great reading, im also 17, 195lb 5'9 17in arms 48 in chest 32in waist im currently natural my last cycle was 3-4 months ago when im cycling im an easy 225-230 but anyways im really trying to cut down but also slowly build some more muscle..this has been a great thread to read keep the posts coming!

[hulkster]

oh the only thing i was gunna say you could try would to switch your cardio up.. you said you were doing 30 min of cardio a few times a week if im correct? im not gunna try tell you what to do cause im still just a rookey but if i keep my cardio under 20 min 2x a day (i heard over 20min burns muscle) and it works pretty good for me but i still cant seem to get some decent abs :(

[laslo101]

ok ya sounds good i did only shoulders td and felt really like bad for only doing that much i worked them hard but felt guilty because i only did just shoulders . but i was probably over training before so i like the arms shoulder combo and ya this foum is amazing for learning new things. i want to do it all natty so im starting with this. and as for cardio im going to keep it out for now to see how this diet goes and if to much bf gets put on il add some in and change up some things but thanks again everyone.

[LonelyBedouin]

ok ya sounds good i did only shoulders td and felt really like bad for only doing that much i worked them hard but felt guilty because i only did just shoulders . but i was probably over training before so i like the arms shoulder combo and ya this foum is amazing for learning new things. i want to do it all natty so im starting with this. and as for cardio im going to keep it out for now to see how this diet goes and if to much bf gets put on il add some in and change up some things but thanks again everyone.

Why not incorporate 20min of LISS cardio after each workout except legs?? I personally do it, I cant remember the reasons but Ive been doing it for so long now I have to do it lol

[JifeLacket]

Eat like a mother! Off season when i am trying to pick it up in the gym i am getting around 8K calories/day. However this is a fairly clean bulk for me because im a cyclist so all the sprint work on the bike (2 days gym for legs, 4 days bike/week) is enough to keep clean (i really have to make sure i eat all the cals back that i burn or else i feel like crap too)

Eat and work hard in the gym, make sure you push yourself all the time, a training buddy can really help.

[laslo101]

ok so started the diet this mourning ate 5 eggs and 1 cup of oats and will be eating every three hours next meal will be protein shake before and after gym, then cooken chicken breast w/ cucuumber and 1.5 cups brown rice. then after that will be baked potatoe, shrimp, almonds. repaeating the brown rice, chicken. finishing up with 4 eggs. thanks again everyone for your help.