Bloods and crips made in america

[Seth]

Just watched the documentary and I'm thinking it'll be a serious nominee for the "most biased" award for 2009. I understand the circumstances for the birth of the movements, but aren't we facilitating violence and crime by throwing the blame away from individuals. There's only so much we can do to alleviate the pressure from poverty... individuals need to make some kind of effort and demonstrate some will to participate in society. Blacks have been discriminated against everywhere, yet on one side we have dangerous, violent, murderous "gangs", and on the other hand we have successful, intelligent and law abiding citizens who struggled to make it, but didn't give in to violence and drugs. Hell, one even made his way up to the presidency...

I'm probably very biased myself, but I had to vent

[#8]

I blame Hip Hop 100%. They try to emulate their favourite rappers who made it on their own terms, but fail to realize that for every rapper / drug dealer that has "made it", there are 500,000 dead or in jail or homeless.

Hip Hop needs to finally die off so young men at risk can start respecting women and getting an education.

[Seth]

check these stats out, they're ridiculous

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvict_v.htm

[kawikaratekid]

I blame Hip Hop 100%. They try to emulate their favourite rappers who made it on their own terms, but fail to realize that for every rapper / drug dealer that has "made it", there are 500,000 dead or in jail or homeless.

Hip Hop needs to finally die off so young men at risk can start respecting women and getting an education.

There were ghettos long before hip hop and there will always be ghettos. You're born into that lifestyle and it takes a lot to get away from it....All criminals don't listen to hip hop so what's the excuse for the rest of them?

[natenator]

I blame Hip Hop 100%. They try to emulate their favourite rappers who made it on their own terms, but fail to realize that for every rapper / drug dealer that has "made it", there are 500,000 dead or in jail or homeless.

Hip Hop needs to finally die off so young men at risk can start respecting women and getting an education.
wow. just wow.

[kawikaratekid]

Just watched the documentary and I'm thinking it'll be a serious nominee for the "most biased" award for 2009. I understand the circumstances for the birth of the movements, but aren't we facilitating violence and crime by throwing the blame away from individuals. There's only so much we can do to alleviate the pressure from poverty... individuals need to make some kind of effort and demonstrate some will to participate in society. Blacks have been discriminated against everywhere, yet on one side we have dangerous, violent, murderous "gangs", and on the other hand we have successful, intelligent and law abiding citizens who struggled to make it, but didn't give in to violence and drugs. Hell, one even made his way up to the presidency...

I'm probably very biased myself, but I had to vent

Do you have a link?

[Tiamat]

For schooling it'll be very hard to compare Canada stats with US stats. Our schooling after high school is generally free. In the US it's crazy expensive.

I don't know the stats but how many blacks get a degree in something compared to whites in Canada? Therein is where the problem may be. I am speculating, but my guess is a lot less blacks will get some form of professional degree compared to whites.

I'll be honest, if someone walked into my place of business with a bandana on their head and pants around their knees looking for a job, I'd never hire them no matter what degree or color they are.

Black communities need to be helped but at the same time they need to help themselves. It'll take everyone to get this problem fixed. It's not like we can just say it's up to the blacks to fix their problem. They are at a disadvantage, they need some help. But all the help should not come from the "white community". It should be a balanced effort on all parties.

Violent criminals should be put on a plane and dumped on a remote island in the North Pole. They don't belong in civilized society regardless of what color they are.

[buildinthaskinnys]

I blame Hip Hop 100%. They try to emulate their favourite rappers who made it on their own terms, but fail to realize that for every rapper / drug dealer that has "made it", there are 500,000 dead or in jail or homeless.

Hip Hop needs to finally die off so young men at risk can start respecting women and getting an education.

Its not hip-hops fault there is black gangs, there were gangs long before hip-hop. Essentially hip-hop formed due to the poverty that people were experiencing at the time and till present day, it goes quit away back. Now I believe what you are refering to are the poser wannabe gangstas that glorify the violence and drug dealing, or the guys that actually have a clue what it was like to be there and sing about the life they experienced such as 50 cent or 2-pac. When you live in a shit hole and there is no way out you have to find an outlet for the pain and anger you deal with day to day. Music that talks about your shittiest day is always going to be popular, because everyone can relate.

[AlbertaBeef]

It's all a lifestyle choice and nothing more. A person can blame micro-social or macro-social reason for them being "Victims" of there society but bottom line is we all have a choice. A criminal has a choice, an alcoholic has a choice even a cowboy has a choice as well as a gay person and they all chose the lifestyle they desire or see as filling their irrational or what they qualify as rational needs whatever they are. I choose to sit back and analyze everybody elses situations and pass my judgement, it beats paying attention to my boring accounting job which of course......I CHOSE

[4031]

It's all a lifestyle choice and nothing more. A person can blame micro-social or macro-social reason for them being "Victims" of there society but bottom line is we all have a choice. A criminal has a choice, an alcoholic has a choice even a cowboy has a choice as well as a gay person and they all chose the lifestyle they desire or see as filling their irrational or what they qualify as rational needs whatever they are. I choose to sit back and analyze everybody elses situations and pass my judgement, it beats paying attention to my boring accounting job which of course......I CHOSE

well said bro, we have no one to blame but ourselves

[Bowlcut]

Blame the socialists. Poverty and unemployment is higher among blacks than is used to be as a result of the minimum wage and job destroying government intervention.

Wanna know why Malcolm X doesn't get as much love as the socialist Martin Luther King Jr.? Because Malcolm X believed that black people had to help themselves and couldn't rely on the government, something that Bill Cosby has been saying for years.

[#8]

There were ghettos long before hip hop and there will always be ghettos. You're born into that lifestyle and it takes a lot to get away from it....All criminals don't listen to hip hop so what's the excuse for the rest of them?

Yes and that was a time in which gangs were only found in ghetto's. Now they are found all over north america, even in small towns. This is directly related to popular culture and media influence. I know many police officers in toronto and mississauga, and i have studied contemporary social problems, and law. I have never experienced poverty first hand, as I have been relatively lucky in terms of where I was born, but I can tell you that I do know that there are MANY young kids who get sucked into a gang lifestyle that are nowhere near the poverty line, and often come from upper middle class homes.

There is something to be said for domestic and sexual abuse in the home, but the media and gang promoting music plays a much bigger role.

[Ritch]

Sure there were gangsters before hip hop but I`m positive it`s not helping. It glorifies bad behavior. I`m about to make this my singnature phrase "**** those stupid hip hop assholes."

[Seth]

Do you have a link?

try on mininova

[kawikaratekid]

Yes and that was a time in which gangs were only found in ghetto's. Now they are found all over north america, even in small towns. This is directly related to popular culture and media influence. I know many police officers in toronto and mississauga, and i have studied contemporary social problems, and law. I have never experienced poverty first hand, as I have been relatively lucky in terms of where I was born, but I can tell you that I do know that there are MANY young kids who get sucked into a gang lifestyle that are nowhere near the poverty line, and often come from upper middle class homes.

There is something to be said for domestic and sexual abuse in the home, but the media and gang promoting music plays a much bigger role.


Gangs weren't found in the ghetto. For example the Mafia has been around since the early 1900's. The Hell's Angel's is another example of a gang that wasn't formed in the ghetto. This was done without the influence of media and pop culture. Done before any official gangs were formed in the ghettos across North America.
If their wasn't hip hop their would still be gangs and violence. If their wasn't heavy metal their would still be gangs and violence. If their were movies that didn't depict any violence their still would be violence. This is something that's never going to stop.
I'm just amazed that hip hop is the root of all this violence in the world. Hip hop is causing the youth to want to join gangs. Hip hop is causing young men to smack their women around. Hip hop is increasing drug use. You can't be serious? Their is a lot more that's wrong with the way things are today but to blame hip hop is absurd.
Well I think the Hell's Angel's are all vagabonds because they listened to heavy metal. That's the devils music! All that GWAR is causing them to do the insane things they do. Holy Fawk lol...I'm jk by the way.
Of all the people that I knew growing up the ones that were upper middle class never got into any gangs unless their families were involved already. I did notice a few plugs join that didn't really fit in with anyone...Most of the guys that got locked up were plugs also.

[kawikaratekid]

Its not hip-hops fault there is black gangs, there were gangs long before hip-hop. Essentially hip-hop formed due to the poverty that people were experiencing at the time and till present day, it goes quit away back. Now I believe what you are refering to are the poser wannabe gangstas that glorify the violence and drug dealing, or the guys that actually have a clue what it was like to be there and sing about the life they experienced such as 50 cent or 2-pac. When you live in a shit hole and there is no way out you have to find an outlet for the pain and anger you deal with day to day. Music that talks about your shittiest day is always going to be popular, because everyone can relate.

^

[#8]

Gangs weren't found in the ghetto. For example the Mafia has been around since the early 1900's. The Hell's Angel's is another example of a gang that wasn't formed in the ghetto. This was done without the influence of media and pop culture. Done before any official gangs were formed in the ghettos across North America.
If their wasn't hip hop their would still be gangs and violence. If their wasn't heavy metal their would still be gangs and violence. If their were movies that didn't depict any violence their still would be violence. This is something that's never going to stop.
I'm just amazed that hip hop is the root of all this violence in the world. Hip hop is causing the youth to want to join gangs. Hip hop is causing young men to smack their women around. Hip hop is increasing drug use. You can't be serious? Their is a lot more that's wrong with the way things are today but to blame hip hop is absurd.
Well I think the Hell's Angel's are all vagabonds because they listened to heavy metal. That's the devils music! All that GWAR is causing them to do the insane things they do. Holy Fawk lol...I'm jk by the way.
Of all the people that I knew growing up the ones that were upper middle class never got into any gangs unless their families were involved already. I did notice a few plugs join that didn't really fit in with anyone...Most of the guys that got locked up were plugs also.

comparing organized crime to gangs is lazy. i have seen it happen first hand and i know more than a few people who grew up in middle class homes with great families that have not only been killed, but also dismembered because they got caught up in gangs and gangland bullshit. you can preach all you want about crime existing for hundreds of years, nobody is disputing that. you are missing the point. the blood thirsty gangs that used to only exist in major urban areas now exist all throughout north america because hip hop music has glorified this type of violence to the point that it is being committed by young kids who have no business doing so. this is a proven fact. the crimes that were committed out of necessity are now committed by kids looking to "get rich or die trying".

[#8]

read about the kids in mississauga who grew up in "poverty" with their 4 bedroom house, satellite tv's, and two working parents. and you're telling me that media wasnt the major contributing factor towards their violent behaviour emulating what they see in pop culture (hip hop). give your head a shake.

[buildinthaskinnys]

It's all a lifestyle choice and nothing more. A person can blame micro-social or macro-social reason for them being "Victims" of there society but bottom line is we all have a choice. A criminal has a choice, an alcoholic has a choice even a cowboy has a choice as well as a gay person and they all chose the lifestyle they desire or see as filling their irrational or what they qualify as rational needs whatever they are. I choose to sit back and analyze everybody elses situations and pass my judgement, it beats paying attention to my boring accounting job which of course......I CHOSE

Not to make fun. but I like it when people use the word choice when describing peoples "lifestyles" gays especially, its like every guy walks around thinking, gee, should I suck some cock today or eat some pussy, choices we have to make, I think I will take the pussy today, but who knows what tomorrow might bring! Im faced with all these difficult choices!

So tell us everyone what did you choose today? COCK or PUSSY?

[natenator]

comparing organized crime to gangs is lazy. i have seen it happen first hand and i know more than a few people who grew up in middle class homes with great families that have not only been killed, but also dismembered because they got caught up in gangs and gangland bullshit. you can preach all you want about crime existing for hundreds of years, nobody is disputing that. you are missing the point. the blood thirsty gangs that used to only exist in major urban areas now exist all throughout north america because hip hop music has glorified this type of violence to the point that it is being committed by young kids who have no business doing so. this is a proven fact. the crimes that were committed out of necessity are now committed by kids looking to "get rich or die trying".
What about the chinese gangs and the russian gangs? Those are some of the most violent gangs going right now (and for about 20 years). You think hip hop is corrupting them?

You talk a lot about what you have seen and know from what you have seen and read but you don't speak about anything that you have EXPERIENCED. I grew up as a teen in a gang and I can assure you it was not hip hop that influenced us but hey what do I know?

[ironwill]

What about the chinese gangs and the russian gangs? Those are some of the most violent gangs going right now (and for about 20 years). You think hip hop is corrupting them?

You talk a lot about what you have seen and know from what you have seen and read but you don't speak about anything that you have EXPERIENCED. I grew up as a teen in a gang and I can assure you it was not hip hop that influenced us but hey what do I know?
lol, the new kids on the block wasnt a gang.......it was a group....:o

[#8]

What about the chinese gangs and the russian gangs? Those are some of the most violent gangs going right now (and for about 20 years). You think hip hop is corrupting them?

You talk a lot about what you have seen and know from what you have seen and read but you don't speak about anything that you have EXPERIENCED. I grew up as a teen in a gang and I can assure you it was not hip hop that influenced us but hey what do I know?

bloods and crips in america has nothing to do with chinese or russian gangs. lets stick to the topic in the thread.

but since you mentioned it.....did you join the gang out of necessity? did you need to put food on your table? did you need protection from the rival gangs in your area that wanted you dead just for being from a certain part of town? or did you join because you wanted some friends and to fit in?........media influence.....nah.....

[kawikaratekid]

comparing organized crime to gangs is lazy. i have seen it happen first hand and i know more than a few people who grew up in middle class homes with great families that have not only been killed, but also dismembered because they got caught up in gangs and gangland bullshit. you can preach all you want about crime existing for hundreds of years, nobody is disputing that. you are missing the point. the blood thirsty gangs that used to only exist in major urban areas now exist all throughout north america because hip hop music has glorified this type of violence to the point that it is being committed by young kids who have no business doing so. this is a proven fact. the crimes that were committed out of necessity are now committed by kids looking to "get rich or die trying".

How is that lazy? They're both gangs and that's what we're talking about. You say gangs and I make a pretty good example of gangs that existed before hip hop and you still try to make it look like all the gang violence is in direct correlation of hip hop music. This has nothing to do with making easy money? With having a crew so you're tough? With gaining the respect or fear of peers who thought you were weak? With carrying around a gun so no one will **** with you? Come on! Give your head a shake.

Let's really think about this. In the early 80's crack and cocaine caused a lot of this violence. Cocaine was often used by whites in there communities while crack was introduced into the ghettos by those who had the money to bring it in. I'm certain that the minorities in the ghettos didn't hop in their private jets or dc planes turn on their hip hop and head down south to get these drugs and bring them back. Instead these drugs were passed along to others to sell. Since articles in the 80's depicted coke as something that wasn't anymore addictive than peanut butter people began using. Apparently this wasn't true. People were getting addicted to these drugs and messing up their lives. The addiction helped the dealers to make some more money. Unfortunately for them Ronald Reagan thought a good way to combat this problem would be to create tougher crime laws. Possession of 500 grams of cocaine would get you at least three years in jail. At that time it was $50,000 worth of coke. Possession of approximately 5 grams of crack would get you at least three years in jail. Which was about $125 worth at that time. It was clear to this day that racism still existed then. A white dude could sell coke in the suburbs and not get locked up in jail for that long.

What does that have to deal with anything?

Well people were out on the street selling drugs and getting locked up for an extended period of time. Thus leaving single mothers at home with the children. Well the children didn't have a father figure to look up to so they looked to the streets. Looking for that dude that will help them out and take care of them. Unfortunately some of the mothers did some partying and got hooked on crack. This wasn't typical in the matrimonial home.

Again all the crimes and violence that occurred through out the existence of man weren't all committed because of necessity. Some people just commit crimes because they have a couple of screws loose. Some people just want to feel like they're apart of something. Some people just want to be bad ass and that has nothing to deal with hip hop music.

Everyone has their own opinion and I won't be able to change yours. Being a fan of hip hop for years and listening to the positive messages that most of the artists were trying to get across in the 80's me hooked. I know it's hard to believe but there is a lot of positive hip hop out there. Remember that most of the artists that have something negative to say are saying it from personal experience. Saying what they've done in their past to survive. Take away everything you have right now, your family, your job, your money, and put yourself into a place where the people around you don't have a lot of money. In a place where you don't know if you're going to get shot by "accident" one day. A place where you may not make it to see your 19th birthday. I guarantee this will harden you up a little.
As for the middle class kids that got into that lifestyle. I've seen kids like that. They went through every style there was when they were growing up trying to fit in.

[kawikaratekid]

read about the kids in mississauga who grew up in "poverty" with their 4 bedroom house, satellite tv's, and two working parents. and you're telling me that media wasnt the major contributing factor towards their violent behaviour emulating what they see in pop culture (hip hop). give your head a shake.

lol why are the only violent people on this earth hip hop artists? All the popular gang banger movies that I seen when I was younger didn't have hip hop in them. They didn't have any main characters that were black. Casino, Good Fellas, Carlito's Way, Scarface, the Godfather, and Reservoir Dogs to name a few....The only black movies that I can think of from back in the day were blacksploitation movies. Most of them depicting the main character as a super hero preventing violence...Up until recently we really have seen any gangster movies that had hip hop on their soundtracks.

Do you have friends that are in legit gangs? If so, did any of them join gangs other than the bloods and crips or any other gangs affiliated with them?

[Bowlcut]

lol why are the only violent people on this earth hip hop artists? All the popular gang banger movies that I seen when I was younger didn't have hip hop in them. They didn't have any main characters that were black. Casino, Good Fellas, Carlito's Way, Scarface, the Godfather, and Reservoir Dogs to name a few....The only black movies that I can think of from back in the day were blacksploitation movies. Most of them depicting the main character as a super hero preventing violence...Up until recently we really have seen any gangster movies that had hip hop on their soundtracks.

Do you have friends that are in legit gangs? If so, did any of them join gangs other than the bloods and crips or any other gangs affiliated with them?

We can include the WOPs too because they are practically from the Guinea coast :D

[natenator]

bloods and crips in america has nothing to do with chinese or russian gangs. lets stick to the topic in the thread.

but since you mentioned it.....did you join the gang out of necessity? did you need to put food on your table? did you need protection from the rival gangs in your area that wanted you dead just for being from a certain part of town? or did you join because you wanted some friends and to fit in?........media influence.....nah.....

Your argument is that hip hop music is to blame for the rise in gangs so since gangs are gangs it is absolutely relevant to bring ALL types of gangs into the debate. If you can't handle backing up your argument then maybe you ought not to make ignorant statements as if they were fact and then choose to flip off all who disagree with your point of view.

I joined a gang (although it didn't start out that way) because I was treated like I was part of their family.

There are many factors that influence why a person associates themselves with a gang and you choose to blame the media and hip hop music as the primary reason. Take away these 2 outside influences and we will STILL have gangs - black, white, chinese, italian, etc. We will ALWAYS have them.

[Ritch]

I`m a member of the get along gang. We always have such a swell time.

[#8]

Your argument is that hip hop music is to blame for the rise in gangs so since gangs are gangs it is absolutely relevant to bring ALL types of gangs into the debate. If you can't handle backing up your argument then maybe you ought not to make ignorant statements as if they were fact and then choose to flip off all who disagree with your point of view.

I joined a gang (although it didn't start out that way) because I was treated like I was part of their family.

There are many factors that influence why a person associates themselves with a gang and you choose to blame the media and hip hop music as the primary reason. Take away these 2 outside influences and we will STILL have gangs - black, white, chinese, italian, etc. We will ALWAYS have them.

LOL, they treated you like family. you must really have needed to get away from your horrible home life of poverty and domestic abuse. i stand by my theory, im probably the only person who has every actually studied these trends and researched them, so you can throw all you want my way but there is truth to what i am saying.

i have seen guys that i knew join gangs because they thought they could handle the lifestyle and make some money while looking cool and acting tough around a bunch of suburban drug users. they ended up dead and i cant say im surprised it happened. these guys did not need to join a gang, they chose to. thats the difference between todays kids. back then they needed to. nowadays, hip hop glorifies it, and a LOT of the time, they are choosing to because they dont want to work hard and earn a living. sorry. these are just facts.

[kawikaratekid]

Again all the crimes and violence that occurred through out the existence of man weren't all committed because of necessity. Some people just commit crimes because they have a couple of screws loose. Some people just want to feel like they're apart of something. Some people just want to be bad ass and that has nothing to deal with hip hop music.


So you just agreed with me?

[kawikaratekid]

LOL, they treated you like family. you must really have needed to get away from your horrible home life of poverty and domestic abuse. i stand by my theory, im probably the only person who has every actually studied these trends and researched them, so you can throw all you want my way but there is truth to what i am saying.

i have seen guys that i knew join gangs because they thought they could handle the lifestyle and make some money while looking cool and acting tough around a bunch of suburban drug users. they ended up dead and i cant say im surprised it happened. these guys did not need to join a gang, they chose to. thats the difference between todays kids. back then they needed to. nowadays, hip hop glorifies it, and a LOT of the time, they are choosing to because they dont want to work hard and earn a living. sorry. these are just facts.

I'm assuming you went to University and studied sociology or criminology. Or you just have this wealth of knowledge from that vast experiences in your life?
I said it before that all people don't join because they have to but they want the money, power and respect that comes along with it. Again you're basically saying other than the fact that hip hop is causing all of this.

[#8]

I'm assuming you went to University and studied sociology or criminology. Or you just have this wealth of knowledge from that vast experiences in your life?
I said it before that all people don't join because they have to but they want the money, power and respect that comes along with it. Again you're basically saying other than the fact that hip hop is causing all of this.

yes to your original statement. and i agree with what you are saying for the most part. But, there is a correlation between the growth and spread of gangs and gang-like behaviour across north america, and hip hop / pop culture influence. hip hop brought the culture mainstream. it never forced anybody's hand to do anything, but it outright glorifies this behaviour and lifestyle.

i can tell you are smart dude, and so is nate. i dont disagree with anything either of you have said. i have never experienced gang life firsthand, but i have witnessed it, and watched guys i knew die.

all im trying to say is that, if there wasnt a huge boom in the popularity and glorification of gang behaviour, i dont think we would have AS BIG of an issue as we do today. it has always existed, and will always exist, but it didnt have to accelerate to the point that it has.