How is my cardio?

[kloan]

I was never a fan of cardio, so I never did it.. but I've been changing the way I think about things, and started doing cardio regularly. Without it, I'll never lose this stupid fat.

So, I'm on the treadmill EOD, for 20 mins after my workout. I set it to 3.5mph, with incline at 10.

Is this enough or should I be doing it longer (or faster)? I checked my pulse, and it was at 157bpm.

[JonnyO]

157 is pretty steep, aim for 120-30bpm.

[Iwant2Grow]

what ever machine your on aim to keep your bpm at 125-135 max

[O-Train]

Why do you guys recommend those ranges for heart rate?

[Iwant2Grow]

It really should depend on his age and weight -
there is a formula for it .
Hurley i´m sure you can correct on this

but the general principle is the body burns more fat at low intensity and spares more muscle then at high intensity

[O-Train]

The basic formula for max. heart rate is 220-age. There is a more detailed way of doing it that I can't remember.

The thing to think about in regards to level of intensity is that when you are sleeping you are burning the least amount of calories but the highest percentage of those calories come from fat. As the intensity of exercise increases you are burning more total calories but a smaller percentage of those calories will come from fat. However, because the total calories burned is greater you will still burn more fat at a higher intensity. A lot of it depends on the goals of the person, their diet and their body fat %. If a person's body has lots of glycogen and fat available than protein probably won't really be used as energy because it isn't a preferred source.

[kloan]

Hmm.. ok.

So is 20 mins EOD enough then?

[Iwant2Grow]

20 mins seems to be the min recommend time
i usually do it post work out although the best results come form doing it in the morning before eating

[kloan]

i wish i could do it in the morning... im just so frickin tired when i get up. i find doing it after my workout when im still feeling somewhat energetic is the only time i feel like it.

so, if my heart rate is too high, is that counterproductive? im still around 16-17% bf so i really want to make the most of the cardio..

[Iwant2Grow]

Im no pro
but your diet is going to play a huge role in this
try reducing your carbs to get into keto - do 30 mins of cardio 3 times a week keeping your heart rate at 125bpm the whole time -

i´m sure some more experience members will jump in here soon

[Doryphorus]

The basic formula for max. heart rate is 220-age. There is a more detailed way of doing it that I can't remember.


The more detailed way to calculate target heart rate that you're probably thinking of is Heart Rate Reserve.

HRR = ((220-age - Resting HR) x %Intensity) + Resting HR

So if you wanted to work at 60% of your maximum, you'd enter 0.6 for %Intensity.

The reasoning behind this method is that people can have different fitness levels and max heart rates regardless of age, and resting heart rate is correlated to the cardiovascular fitness level of an individual.

[declan]

The more detailed way to calculate target heart rate that you're probably thinking of is Heart Rate Reserve.

HRR = ((220-age - Resting HR) x %Intensity) + Resting HR

So if you wanted to work at 60% of your maximum, you'd enter 0.6 for %Intensity.

The reasoning behind this method is that people can have different fitness levels and max heart rates regardless of age, and resting heart rate is correlated to the cardiovascular fitness level of an individual.

Great info bud.

[kloan]

Im no pro
but your diet is going to play a huge role in this
try reducing your carbs to get into keto - do 30 mins of cardio 3 times a week keeping your heart rate at 125bpm the whole time -

i´m sure some more experience members will jump in here soon
I'm avoiding keto for now... I know it's really effective, and I liked it while I was on it for the short 3 weeks, but for now I have just reduced carbs.

I think my diet still needs some tweaking. I'm eating fruits and very little other carbs, basically a couple pieces of rice toast or a buckwheat waffle, veggies... some dairy such as kefir and cottage cheese.. that's about it. Not keto, but pretty low carbs.

Doryphorus, thanks for the math info... let's see if I get this right:

((220-29 - 68) x 60%) + 68 = 141.8?

If so, then I think I'm pretty close.. since I'm still relatively new with cardio (only been a couple weeks), my heart rate will probably go down a bit when I get used to it, right?

[Doryphorus]

((220-29 - 68) x 60%) + 68 = 141.8?

If so, then I think I'm pretty close.. since I'm still relatively new with cardio (only been a couple weeks), my heart rate will probably go down a bit when I get used to it, right?

Looks good to me bro. If I remember correctly, the "fat burning" zone is typically 60-70% HRmax, and 75-90% is considered to be more aerobic training. I believe at the lower intensity, literature has shown that ~85% of calories burned are from fat, and only ~50% are from fat at higher intensity.

However, like o_Hurley said, you'll burn more calories in total at the higher intensity. Also, due to the way your body recovers from higher intensity exercise, you'll continue burning calories even after you're done your cardio.

So in summary, imagine this: Hypothetically, you burned 200 Cal at 60% HRmax, so 170 are from fat (85%). OR, you burned 350 Cal at 80% HRmax, so 175 of them are from fat (50%), and you're still burning calories after everything is said and done while you recover.

And to answer your other question, yes, as you get used to doing cardio and your cardiovascular fitness improves, you should notice a decrease in your resting heart rate.

[O-Train]

Looks good to me bro. If I remember correctly, the "fat burning" zone is typically 60-70% HRmax, and 75-90% is considered to be more aerobic training. I believe at the lower intensity, literature has shown that ~85% of calories burned are from fat, and only ~50% are from fat at higher intensity.

However, like o_Hurley said, you'll burn more calories in total at the higher intensity. Also, due to the way your body recovers from higher intensity exercise, you'll continue burning calories even after you're done your cardio.

So in summary, imagine this: Hypothetically, you burned 200 Cal at 60% HRmax, so 170 are from fat (85%). OR, you burned 350 Cal at 80% HRmax, so 175 of them are from fat (50%), and you're still burning calories after everything is said and done while you recover.

And to answer your other question, yes, as you get used to doing cardio and your cardiovascular fitness improves, you should notice a decrease in your resting heart rate.

Agreed. Although I don't like the term "fat burning zone" but you explained things well.

[kloan]

Cool, thanks guys.

I think I'm ok then. Perhaps the next time I shift my routine, maybe I'll switch it up a bit so that I'm doing a couple 30-40 min cardio sessions, away from workouts.

The machine I use says I've burned roughly 330 calories at the settings I use, but I guess that is just an estimate. I'm going to get a replacement heart monitor for it so I can get accurate readings.

I have noticed I keep sweating up to an hour after my cardio.. so maybe I am in the upper range. I just don't want to affect my workout/muscles, so that's why I've been keeping it at 20 mins.

[O-Train]

Cool, thanks guys.

I think I'm ok then. Perhaps the next time I shift my routine, maybe I'll switch it up a bit so that I'm doing a couple 30-40 min cardio sessions, away from workouts.

The machine I use says I've burned roughly 330 calories at the settings I use, but I guess that is just an estimate. I'm going to get a replacement heart monitor for it so I can get accurate readings.

I have noticed I keep sweating up to an hour after my cardio.. so maybe I am in the upper range. I just don't want to affect my workout/muscles, so that's why I've been keeping it at 20 mins.

You could try incorporating cardio into your weightlifting routine, just a thought. My experience with cardio equipment is that they are not very accurate (heart rate, calories burned, etc...)

[kloan]

You could try incorporating cardio into your weightlifting routine, just a thought. My experience with cardio equipment is that they are not very accurate (heart rate, calories burned, etc...)

Yeah that's what I'm doing right now.. at the end of my workout I jump on the treadmill for 20 mins. I find it' easier to go from one to the other, rather than trying to find the motivation on my off days to do cardio.

[O-Train]

Yeah that's what I'm doing right now.. at the end of my workout I jump on the treadmill for 20 mins. I find it' easier to go from one to the other, rather than trying to find the motivation on my off days to do cardio.

What I meant is combine the two. So instead of resting in between sets you do a cardio activity. Basically circuit training. It will keep your heartrate up the entire time while you are weightlifting. Should burn a ton of calories and save you some time, although it would also effect your lifting somewhat. Probably not suitable for all strength training routines, but its an option.

[kloan]

ah, i see... that's an interesting approach. i think it would affect my lifting though... i do sorta dance around between sets to keep my heartrate up.. but full on jumping jacks or rope, might tire me out too much.

[Doryphorus]

Agreed. Although I don't like the term "fat burning zone"

Haha me either bro, I just wrote that because it's what that intensity level is typically called on cardio equipment.

[Doryphorus]

Cool, thanks guys.

I think I'm ok then. Perhaps the next time I shift my routine, maybe I'll switch it up a bit so that I'm doing a couple 30-40 min cardio sessions, away from workouts.

The machine I use says I've burned roughly 330 calories at the settings I use, but I guess that is just an estimate. I'm going to get a replacement heart monitor for it so I can get accurate readings.

I have noticed I keep sweating up to an hour after my cardio.. so maybe I am in the upper range. I just don't want to affect my workout/muscles, so that's why I've been keeping it at 20 mins.

Have you ever considered High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT)? From everything I've read, it seems like an excellent way to lose fat while still keeping your cardio to 20min sessions EOD (not including warm up/cool down) and personally I've had great results from it.

"After a 5 week conditioning period on a recumbent cycle, The High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) group perform sprints while the Endurance Training (ET) group performed a more traditional aerobic protocol, throughout the remaining 15 weeks. Both groups progressed in intensity. At the conclusion of the study, the HIIT group lost over 3 times as much subcutaneous fat as the ET group despite expending less than half as many calories. For every calorie expended during HIIT, there was a nine fold loss of subcutaneous body fat, as compared to the ET group."

http://www.exrx.net/FatLoss/HIITvsET.html

[O-Train]

Have you ever considered High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT)? From everything I've read, it seems like an excellent way to lose fat while still keeping your cardio to 20min sessions EOD (not including warm up/cool down) and personally I've had great results from it.

"After a 5 week conditioning period on a recumbent cycle, The High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) group perform sprints while the Endurance Training (ET) group performed a more traditional aerobic protocol, throughout the remaining 15 weeks. Both groups progressed in intensity. At the conclusion of the study, the HIIT group lost over 3 times as much subcutaneous fat as the ET group despite expending less than half as many calories. For every calorie expended during HIIT, there was a nine fold loss of subcutaneous body fat, as compared to the ET group."

http://www.exrx.net/FatLoss/HIITvsET.html

Very similar to fartlek training or "speed play" right? This kind of training has been used for a long time and it works very well.

[Doryphorus]

Yes, very similar except if I remember correctly, Fartlek training is more unstructured in that athletes sprint/recover as they see fit whereas HIIT training has more formal "sets", "reps" and "rest times".

[kloan]

So what would that mean then on the treadmill? Having short bursts of jogging or running? I tried that out when I first started and I damn well nearly passed out.. there are settings on the treadmill that sort of simulate it, but really don't work very well.. I'd be better off doing it manually.

Maybe when I start getting a better cardiovascular system going I can introduce the HIIT...

[Doryphorus]

So what would that mean then on the treadmill? Having short bursts of jogging or running? I tried that out when I first started and I damn well nearly passed out.. there are settings on the treadmill that sort of simulate it, but really don't work very well.. I'd be better off doing it manually.

Maybe when I start getting a better cardiovascular system going I can introduce the HIIT...

Haha I hear ya bro, I personally only do HIIT on a stationary upright bike or outside on the track/road. I found that first of all, changing settings on the treadmill is a pain in the ass, and second of all I've come close to passing out too, and I'd rather fall off a stationary bike than a moving treadmill lol.

Another option is not going balls to the wall right away, but gauging your intensity/set length via your heart rate. For example, aim to reach 175BPM during the sprint and slow it to 140BPM during recovery before you start your next set (instead of using time as a regulator) or something like that - those numbers are just arbitrary examples, you'll find out pretty quick how hard you can work so you're able to finish.

It's just a thought though, good luck with whatever you choose!

[kloan]

Cool, thanks for the tips.. It's appreciated.

I finally found a replacement clip on heart rate monitor, so that'll help. I hear ya on the stationary bike.. it would be way easier to do it on there, changing the settings on the treadmill is a pain in the ass.. it's frickin slow adjusting speeds... then when I'm running, I have to keep my balance and slow the damn thing down again before I trip and fly into the wall behind me.... :D

So far, I think what I'm doing is good... when I start to plateau, I'll introduce the HIIT.

[TheNaturalBodybuilder]

I am a trainer. The quickest way to decrease body fat is interval training. Do not set it at one speed and stay at that speed for the duration of you cardio. You have to do intervals. Steady state cardio is old and not effective. The people doing the steady state are the people who have been in the gym for years and still look the same as when they joined. Mix your cardio up everytime. Go low, medium high, medium, low, medium, high etc etc. I could give up lots of ideas but I would be here for a while.

[gsxr750]

^^ This really depends on the diet too though no?

Low/No carbs is low intensity steady state cardio 120BPM unless you want to burn muscle along with your blubber..

Diets with carbs in them yes, HIIT works excellent. I would never do HIIT in the AM no matter what the diet.

I see the leanest guy in my gym who is lean year round doing HIIT all the time on a treadmill. He'll pretty much run full tilt for 30 seconds and then jog for a minute and repeat. Does this about 10 times and hes drenched and done.

[TheNaturalBodybuilder]

^^ This really depends on the diet too though no?

Low/No carbs is low intensity steady state cardio 120BPM unless you want to burn muscle along with your blubber..

Diets with carbs in them yes, HIIT works excellent. I would never do HIIT in the AM no matter what the diet.

I see the leanest guy in my gym who is lean year round doing HIIT all the time on a treadmill. He'll pretty much run full tilt for 30 seconds and then jog for a minute and repeat. Does this about 10 times and hes drenched and done.

If your competing we are talking a whole other ball game. To be a healthy individual and just look good you should not go low carb. You should be just eating carbs throughout the day but eating smaller amounts throughout the day. Breakfast being the most and dinner being very little. Why put yourself through diet hell if your not competing? I have the competition bug so I put myself through this hell but I would never EVER give my clients a diet like mine. All my clients are given a healthy diet. When my clients take my bootcamp 3 or 5 days a week on average they lose 30lbs in 3 months. Interval training burns fat.

[fourarms]

^^ This really depends on the diet too though no?

Diets with carbs in them yes, HIIT works excellent. I would never do HIIT in the AM no matter what the diet.


No HIIT isn't a good idea in the morning on an empty stomach, especially if you are carb depleted. However, I've had good results with HIIT first thing in morning when I take 5g Leucine, 4g BCAA, and 5g Glutamine about 15 min before hand, 200mg caffeine as well. Yields excellent improvement in cardio, good fat loss, and I haven't lost lean weight.

[kloan]

Hmm, well I'm not making as much progress as I'd like to. I think I've lost a bit of fat, but nothing substantial. I really don't want to go on the keto diet again. I thought I'd be ok with reducing carbs, I really only get them from fruits and veggies now... maybe it's the fruit? I also drink my protein in OJ because it's plain whey. I rarely eat any complex carbs, if at all it's usually with breakfast.. 1 waffle or 1 piece of rice toast. Otherwise it's just proteins, healthy fats and fruits/veggies.

I dunno.. I'm just not happy with the lack of results. I wanna lose the fat quicker!

I mean shit, it's a month later and my weight has stayed the same... but I'm also putting on muscle, so I must be burning some fat... dunno where it's coming from, I can still squeeze my gut and still have fat on my chest I REALLY REALLY REALLY want to get rid of already. :(

[JonnyO]

I am a trainer. The quickest way to decrease body fat is interval training. Do not set it at one speed and stay at that speed for the duration of you cardio. You have to do intervals. Steady state cardio is old and not effective. The people doing the steady state are the people who have been in the gym for years and still look the same as when they joined. Mix your cardio up everytime. Go low, medium high, medium, low, medium, high etc etc. I could give up lots of ideas but I would be here for a while.

Great advice!!! I am a big fan of interval cardio now, unless you are really heavy and have a lot to lose, then at first straight cardio for longer duration would be best to start off with. But 30-40mins on an empty stomach, 2-4mins high intensity to the point you cant hold a conversation, then 2-3 mins lower intensity.

[JonnyO]

Hmm, well I'm not making as much progress as I'd like to. I think I've lost a bit of fat, but nothing substantial. I really don't want to go on the keto diet again. I thought I'd be ok with reducing carbs, I really only get them from fruits and veggies now... maybe it's the fruit? I also drink my protein in OJ because it's plain whey. I rarely eat any complex carbs, if at all it's usually with breakfast.. 1 waffle or 1 piece of rice toast. Otherwise it's just proteins, healthy fats and fruits/veggies.

I dunno.. I'm just not happy with the lack of results. I wanna lose the fat quicker!

I mean shit, it's a month later and my weight has stayed the same... but I'm also putting on muscle, so I must be burning some fat... dunno where it's coming from, I can still squeeze my gut and still have fat on my chest I REALLY REALLY REALLY want to get rid of already. :(

Post your diet and we can make some suggestions...I mean telling us your eating fruit/vegg/prot is pretty vague and cant make suggestions other than fruits a poor choice.

[mooseman]

hey gents..just another question for ya, i starting cardio recntly,, 15 mins, then, 25 mins, the about 40 mins and want to get to an hour a day in the morning before breakfast,i am 210 wnat to get to 190ish or so and going to start a cycle of not too sure what yet actually,,origiannaly though clen and winstrol but??? so what do u think of the cardio and what should i see from that in what time frame roughly ofcourse?? thanks