I envy Alberta

[RagingRandy]

Common sense rules http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2009/05/27/edmonton-bill-44-debate.html

Quote of the day...."It's up to the parents to raise the children, not the government, not the state," said Calgary Conservative MLA Jonathan Denis.

BRAVO


I guess hell will freeze over before I see this in Ontario.

[MuSuLPhReAk]

As it stated, the gov't is afraid to get a human rights violation.

Article 26 paragraph 3 states that Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

Forcing something on parents that don't want it thaught to their children is a violation. This can bite some gov'ts in the ass. Here in Quebec, some course in schools will be challenged in court. Quebec is a little more quick to do things that violate basic human rights of people and it would not be the first time the UN would rule against them if it goes that high.

But everyone should take a moment to read this page.
http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

Maybe it should be taught in schools too :)

[Bowlcut]

Here in Quebec there is a huge controversy because the government made a religion and ethics class mandatory for all schools. The Catholic private schools, let alone parents, are pissed off that their elementary kids have to learn about Hinduism, Islam, etc.

Parents apparently don't even have the right to withdraw their kids. Apparently the state is the final authority on how we should raise kids.

[SmallieBigs]

why not make it mandatory? I think it would be good to help everyone learn and be a bit more accepting of each other, not to mention it's at least as positive as having madatory art/music classes

[Seth]

Just whose fundamental rights are we talking about. The parents for not wanting their kid to make their own conclusions, or the children, for seeing the whole picture. The classes are not meant to indoctrinate kids into atheism or islam, it's made for them to know about other religions. It's about allowing the kid knowledge his parent would deny him. I think it can only be beneficial to kids. That being said, I can understand the view of the parents who have been indoctrinated since their birth into a single perspective and are afraid their children might see things differently, but its absurd to let the kids in the dark because their parents are afraid.

[waderow]

having the government decide how our children are raised is not alright.
Every hear of the Hitler Youth?

Parents should be able to raise their children however they want. The example in the news lately is extreme, yes...to say the least. We all cant have a big knee jerk reaction over this event and decide the state now owns our children.

If I had my children taken away by the state. My healthy, well cared for, and loved children. Government officials would die.

[Bowlcut]

Just whose fundamental rights are we talking about. The parents for not wanting their kid to make their own conclusions, or the children, for seeing the whole picture. The classes are not meant to indoctrinate kids into atheism or islam, it's made for them to know about other religions. It's about allowing the kid knowledge his parent would deny him. I think it can only be beneficial to kids. That being said, I can understand the view of the parents who have been indoctrinated since their birth into a single perspective and are afraid their children might see things differently, but its absurd to let the kids in the dark because their parents are afraid.

What if the class was a mandatory Catholic one that non-Catholic kids had to attend.
As soon as you accept that government has the right to educate kids in your philosophy then you also accept they could have the same right to indoctrinate them in something you disagree with.

[waderow]

a generic, but standardized curriculum on history and social studies, language, mathematics, physical education, diet and health, and sciences should be mandatory... as it is. Religion and personal views need to be left to the parents...period

[Seth]

What if the class was a mandatory Catholic one that non-Catholic kids had to attend.
As soon as you accept that government has the right to educate kids in your philosophy then you also accept they could have the same right to indoctrinate them in something you disagree with.

I don't agree. As a society we have a responsibility to give individuals the right to choose, and that includes giving them the tools and knowledge to make a sound decision. If we were to indoctrinate anyone we would go against that philosophy. In the current situation we're not raising the kids for anyone, we're just giving information to the young. I totally agree that we cannot take position in schools on such tricky topics, but educating people is a responsibility.

That not only applies to religion, but also to sexual education. Some parent's values will forbid them from speaking about contraception with their children, that's where the state has a societal obligation to fill in the blanks and allow the children to make life-altering decisions/mistakes soundly. While children are nearly a "possession" of their parents, we have to keep in mind those people will some day become full members of the society.

Basically, what I'm trying to say, is that the right of intellectual freedom and opinion making should always belong to the individuals, and no one, not even the parents, should have the right to forbid knowledge. Now about the question of preventing abuse from the state, I think that's a whole different topic, but in my honest opinion, we're not too far from neutrality right now.

[RagingRandy]

^^^^Politics and religion aside, the public school system does "indoctrinate" as you have accused others of. For instance in Ontario they have instituted a "no fail" policy. This doctrine is incredibly damaging to people and society in general. Some of the greatest achievements in our world came from people who failed several time in the process. I was told that Honda's R&D department has a mandate to fail. Only through failure do you test the limits and look into the unknown.

I will surely be teaching my children that failure is acceptable and required as we mature to becoming better people. This alone would be enough to keep my children from being indoctrinated by the public school system

[waderow]

Raging randy..good for you bro

[Danger]

When I was in school alot of kids sat out the Sex Ed courses in Jr High because their parents wouldnt sign the waiver allowing them that part of the course, so for like 2 weeks every year these kids got to go watch movies in the library while we learned about condoms and shit lol.

As far as I remember religon is pretty much avoided in public education our Social studies teacher even had to ask parents if it was ok to show us the movie Schindler's list in class.

Also completely agree, parents should always have the final say about what type of education their children get.

[RagingRandy]

When I was in school alot of kids sat out the Sex Ed courses in Jr High because their parents wouldnt sign the waiver allowing them that part of the course, so for like 2 weeks every year these kids got to go watch movies in the library while we learned about condoms and shit lol.

As far as I remember religon is pretty much avoided in public education our Social studies teacher even had to ask parents if it was ok to show us the movie Schindler's list in class.

Also completely agree, parents should always have the final say about what type of education their children get.

Schindler's list is a very disturbing movie and I would definitely want to know if my child was going to watch it. If for no other reason but to prepare them for it. A grade 12 student once told me they had watched A Clockwork Orange in class. That is messed.

[waderow]

schindlers list would be suitable for highschool kids... and I think is a valid description of the holocaust and should be part of the curriculum.

[Danger]

Honestly, we watched it in Grade 12 and seriously every girl in the class cried and alot of the guys we're trying not too myself included, I agree with asking parents about watching that movie and I do think its rated R anyway so I think you legally have to before showing it since alot of kids in grade 12 are only 17.

Off topic but I think every kid should have to watch Requim for a Dream as part of drug education, I cant imagine anyone who watches that movie could possibly end up doing hard drugs. Would do a way better job than that stupid ass D.A.R.E program.

[Bowlcut]

Honestly, we watched it in Grade 12 and seriously every girl in the class cried and alot of the guys we're trying not too myself included, I agree with asking parents about watching that movie and I do think its rated R anyway so I think you legally have to before showing it since alot of kids in grade 12 are only 17.

Off topic but I think every kid should have to watch Requim for a Dream as part of drug education, I cant imagine anyone who watches that movie could possibly end up doing hard drugs. Would do a way better job than that stupid ass D.A.R.E program.

Trainspoting is another good film too.

[RagingRandy]

Honestly, we watched it in Grade 12 and seriously every girl in the class cried and alot of the guys we're trying not too myself included, I agree with asking parents about watching that movie and I do think its rated R anyway so I think you legally have to before showing it since alot of kids in grade 12 are only 17.

Off topic but I think every kid should have to watch Requim for a Dream as part of drug education, I cant imagine anyone who watches that movie could possibly end up doing hard drugs. Would do a way better job than that stupid ass D.A.R.E program.

Requim is an awesome movie. As a former user myself I can relate to how far one can fall. However, some of the sex in it is over the top and may be too much for some at that age. This is why this should be left to the parents discretion. I do agree that the anti-drug programs are ineffective.

[Danger]

Are you suggesting 16-18 year olds arent ready for the "ass-to-ass" scene lol, prude!

[RagingRandy]

^^^^That was one of the most uncomfortable and disturbing scenes I have ever seen on screen.

[Bowlcut]

^^^^That was one of the most uncomfortable and disturbing scenes I have ever seen on screen.

Please elaborate or link me because I am curious now.

Here is a linkhttp://www.metacafe.com/watch/1275561/jennifer_connelly/

[deleteduser0001]

bill 44 impacts very little. permission slips for activities of this sort have always gone home and teachers are covered if it just "comes up" in class.