Gov't Bailout for Auto Industry

[spitfire]

I just read in the news that most people favor a gov't bailout for the auto industry. I thought it was actually the opposite. So I'll start a poll here to see if that news piece was reality or propaganda.

[SmallieBigs]

I don't know how to vote... I don't think they'll make good decisions with it.. but overall we need them to regain prosperity.... idk.... sorry... i'll work on it...

[champcar99]

I don't ****ing care about the auto industry , they decided to ****ing build big stupid suburban tanks gas guzzling pigs and the CEO payouts and shit they can **** themselfs right up the ass.I have always felt that there is no use for the suburban gas pigs and the hummers all those stupid show off my money automobiles....like they didnt know all this was going to happen one day ,it has been predicted for a couple years now and they did **** all now they want to play stupid ,get tax payer money and even try to pay ceo's biG money still...let the workers take less of everything while the top 1 % still get what they want...**** YOU ....GO TO HELL YOU ****ING PRICKS...

[Ongeau]

when we speak of sustainability and viability of a company it has to come from things such as EBITDA, Working Capital per Employee, ROCE. and most importantly Profitability. These Auto Industry companies had created such a huge hole for themselves that there is no way it is possible to bring them back to from the edge of destruction.
I'm sorry to say, but we have to let them sink, and it's even worse to say that it's should be at the cost of the current employee and the past retiree's. Now I realize that these people somehow wrangled themselves into a great job 20 years ago and they didn't even have to have finished grade 8, and to top it all off, the only thing they had to do was put 5 bolts ont he front and back tires of a car. And this warranted being paid $32 per hour plus 12% holiday pay, plus 8% vested into pension, plus paid bonus. I mean truly the list goes on and on. And so we gave these really high paying jobs to people who in my opinion a.) didn't deserve them. b.) didn't know how to handle $80,000 base pay c.) never gave a thought to what would happen when the ball stopped rolling and the 2000 people left working had to cover the pensions of the 200,000 retired.
So I said let them sink, yes I said it, but think about it. Toyota is not UAW and they will pick up the pace. Honda will consequently drop their price to become more competitive. Suzuki would make another model other than the ever economical "Swift" and so someone would pick up the slack and our society would have learned a great lesson.

Here's the problems as I see them.
1.) you can't over pay people for doing nothing
2.) people who make $80,000 a year should be educated, this is what I was taugth
3.) the people in charge who made these bad dessicions should not be responsible for investing the funds to sustain the company, they are idiots.
4.) there is no place a Unions anymore, They don't belong in todays society.
5.) giving a bailout only prolongs the pain.
6.) don't pay people $32 and charge $24,000 for a Chev. Cavalier lol what a joke
7.) If you make 32 p/hr and get four free cars during your retirement and worked for GM for 20 years why are you so destitute that you only have so much money in the bank and now you expect more money to solve your problems, Are you on Crack? do you have a $200 a day heroin habit? take your earned money and put it back into the system. your asking me to pay for your retirement, cause at the end of the day if the governement bails you out they are gonna come after my money to pay for it. and truly after 6 years in University, I managed to get myself into a good position for a Glodal Steel Manufacturer, I have a good job and i'm waiting for the turn around, but because nobody can afford to pay for that Cavalier my plant is Idle, and 6 months ago I had 3 other people sitting around in other offices, and now it's just me. they are all gone, I have to make my contribution to help them out with EI and I can't afford to help them and the auto industry guys.

anyway i'm done, I can and have gone on for a long time here.

[deleteduser0001]

Here's the problems as I see them.
1.) you can't over pay people for doing nothing
2.) people who make $80,000 a year should be educated, this is what I was taugth
3.) the people in charge who made these bad dessicions should not be responsible for investing the funds to sustain the company, they are idiots.
4.) there is no place a Unions anymore, They don't belong in todays society.
5.) giving a bailout only prolongs the pain.
6.) don't pay people $32 and charge $24,000 for a Chev. Cavalier lol what a joke
7.) If you make 32 p/hr and get four free cars during your retirement and worked for GM for 20 years why are you so destitute that you only have so much money in the bank and now you expect more money to solve your problems, Are you on Crack? do you have a $200 a day heroin habit? take your earned money and put it back into the system. your asking me to pay for your retirement, cause at the end of the day if the governement bails you out they are gonna come after my money to pay for it. and truly after 6 years in University, I managed to get myself into a good position for a Glodal Steel Manufacturer, I have a good job and i'm waiting for the turn around, but because nobody can afford to pay for that Cavalier my plant is Idle, and 6 months ago I had 3 other people sitting around in other offices, and now it's just me. they are all gone, I have to make my contribution to help them out with EI and I can't afford to help them and the auto industry guys.

anyway i'm done, I can and have gone on for a long time here.

I don't understand #6 at all.
I don't know why #1 can't be true.
I don't know who would teach you that stupid people can't have a good job.
I don't understand why you think that unions which defend and protect the workers of a sector are outdated...


Can you expand?

[Ongeau]

I don't understand #6 at all.
I don't know why #1 can't be true.
I don't know who would teach you that stupid people can't have a good job.
I don't understand why you think that unions which defend and protect the workers of a sector are outdated...


Can you expand?
I have to assume that your serious,

#6 talks to the whole subject of sustainability
#1 is what it is and I don't think needs explanation
Nobody teachs that stupid people shouldn't have a good job so please give this some thought. What I'm saying is that highly educated people aren't making this kind of money and equal work for equal pay. isn't that what a union is suppose to be for?

I will debate until i'm blue in the face, unions don't belong in todays society, show me one example where people are being forced to work 100hrs/week for $2.00 per hour($9.75 per hour it's the Law). show me where your not allowed to take a sick day.(It's the Law) show me where there are examples of abuse in the work place, sexual or otherwise, and I'll show you where one phone call to the proper authorities will solve that problem. So what does a Union do? you say defend the workers of a sector! I say protect the lazy, overpay the uneducated, protect the jobs the drunk and drug addicted A$$hole who takes for granted the fact that they have a great job. Anything that a Union is there for is BS, There are laws that protect people across our country. There was a time when they were needed, NOT ANYMORE I SAY! Not anymore...

[kawikaratekid]

They were at the top for years and years. Mismanagement definitely caused this and it will happen again....

[kawikaratekid]

The oil companies are to blame for this. Nobody says anything about them driving the economy into a recession. Everything that is moved around the world has been moved by a truck at some point. Drive up the fuel costs for them you drive up the costs of everything in the world.

[natenator]

They were at the top for years and years. Mismanagement definitely caused this and it will happen again....
mismanagement and greedy unions caused this.

[Ongeau]

mismanagement and greedy unions caused this.


Agreed

[spitfire]

Funny how the news reports that the majority favour a bailout while it's 10-0 against on the board. I wonder who they asked that question to? All the Chrysler employees and management maybe??

****ing media propaganda :mad:

[Gettin'r'round]

The oil companies are to blame for this. Nobody says anything about them driving the economy into a recession. Everything that is moved around the world has been moved by a truck at some point. Drive up the fuel costs for them you drive up the costs of everything in the world.

Where have you been for the past 30years? The big 3 have been losing market share for this length of time, no change, what did you think was going to happen? Even when the CAW gave in to Chrysler there was NO cuts to wages or pensions! Meaning all they lost were perks and the bitching and moaning oh my! To the CAW workers I bet it hurt but for those in the real economy were just left scratching their heads. If anyone wants to wonder about the future of GM/Chrysler take a look at the British auto industry.

[spitfire]

Chrysler files for bankruptcy!!!


Yaaaaaaaayyyyyy!!!

[UkrainianGuy]

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[Gettin'r'round]

Chrysler files for bankruptcy!!!


Yaaaaaaaayyyyyy!!!

It's bogus bankruptcy. The assets are not being liquidated and the unions are being given a 50% stake? The bond holders are being thrown under the bus, even though they lent billions to Chrysler. Obama's sick joke.
Oh and let's not forget your tax dollars are being thrown into this "bankruptcy"

[spitfire]

This shit is retarded. We need to oust the gov't from power cause corporations are really the gov't. We need a whole rebuilding of the gov't that works for the people, not for large corporations, banks and the rich. What a crock.

[buildinthaskinnys]

This shit is retarded. We need to oust the gov't from power cause corporations are really the gov't. We need a whole rebuilding of the gov't that works for the people, not for large corporations, banks and the rich. What a crock.

Im with you spitfire, this country went from good to absolute shit in about 50 years, people have become too comfortable in their lives to see the disaster ahead that will ultimately effect their children and grandchildren most. Its time for another revolution im afraid to say, and the government can see it happening, thats what gun control if for, DONT REGISTER YOUR FIREARMS BURY THEM IN SARAN WRAP UNTIL WE NEED THEM.

Wait until the next recession this is when the shit will really hit the fan, I forsee total anarchy, marshall law, dogs and cats as friends, real 1984 shit.

[spitfire]

Think about this. Compare your life to the 80's and early 90's. How much more tax do you pay? And what has happened to your quality of life?

I always thought if there is more money being pumped into the system (by taxes) then we should be getting more in return (i.e. better quality of life). In all seriousness, I find my quality of life has degraded over the last 20 years. Health care is in shambles, infrastructure is gone to hell. Gov't is spending money senselessly and putting is in worst debt. It seems like we keep paying more taxes to at least support the status quo instead of better stuff. It seems all the people that keep saying this shit is happening all because they want to get is more into debt to supply the big banks with more $$.

So it's all the middle class that has to maintain the economy that is falling apart (example Chrysler). We are still the slaves, just they've reworded everything and gave us a little more. But in essence, we are stuck in this rut the rest of our lives, and our kids will follow the same pattern but probably in a worst off situation.

This is why our gov't is wrong. They do not have OUR best interests in mind. It's all about large corporations, big banks and the rich. Only way to really get things fixed is to have a new gov't that works for the people and not for large corporations. I'm fed up.

[buildinthaskinnys]

You are preachin' to the choir my friend.

[Drummer]

as an autoworker who had no control over the utter mismanagement of the companies, i say yes. i dont think anyone realizes the full impact of allowing big 3 to just fail. the trickle effect would be enormous, and thats not just a biased view, thats fact. and of course i dont want for me and all my peers to be out on the street after 15 years on the line.

[Drummer]

Think about this. Compare your life to the 80's and early 90's. How much more tax do you pay? And what has happened to your quality of life?

I always thought if there is more money being pumped into the system (by taxes) then we should be getting more in return (i.e. better quality of life). In all seriousness, I find my quality of life has degraded over the last 20 years. Health care is in shambles, infrastructure is gone to hell. Gov't is spending money senselessly and putting is in worst debt. It seems like we keep paying more taxes to at least support the status quo instead of better stuff. It seems all the people that keep saying this shit is happening all because they want to get is more into debt to supply the big banks with more $$.

So it's all the middle class that has to maintain the economy that is falling apart (example Chrysler). We are still the slaves, just they've reworded everything and gave us a little more. But in essence, we are stuck in this rut the rest of our lives, and our kids will follow the same pattern but probably in a worst off situation.

This is why our gov't is wrong. They do not have OUR best interests in mind. It's all about large corporations, big banks and the rich. Only way to really get things fixed is to have a new gov't that works for the people and not for large corporations. I'm fed up.


I hate to say it bud... but you have "entitlement itis". You believe you are entitled to a great life becasue you pay taxes, albiet you already have one of the best in the world being in Canada (im assuming). In no way is our gov't perfect, or free from corruption. However, drop you in 9 out of 10 other places in the world and youd be beggin to come home... ill take an imperfect Canada any day than most of the world.

We are getting "rights" confused with "priviledges". Watch George Carlin "its bad for ya", more truth than jest there.

No offence intended... just MHO.

~D~

PS : im all over the zeitgeist type of attitude... i just live among the elite and carve out my happy way like most of us... let them argue over the power they percieve to be so important.

[spitfire]

No disrespect intended Drummer but in March, Canada lost 287,000 jobs. No gov't bailout for them. Those people have to scramble and work their way back up.

When Chrysler was doing great, did the company give me anything? So now that it is doing bad and going down the drain, you want money from me, the taxpayer to save your job and pension? How does that work cause it doesn't make sense to me. Of course being in your position I would react and say exactly as you would. I'm not in front of the firing squad. But I am not, and the other 33. something million of Canada is not either and that's where the problem is. Most of us don't want to give a single penny of our tax dollars. The ideal of capitalism is if something like this happens, you go bankrupt fast. You find a new job like the rest of us do. You rebuild and someone else will just start up a new company and the market continues or another company moves in, like fiat. That is capitalism.
Now after all this, what if the economy goes even worst and after restructuring, chrysler still fails. Then what? How much did that cost the rest of us? When and if I lose my job, will you donate part of your tax money to bail me out of my mortgage or my car payments? I'll pay you back if I make it out of this mess, I promise.

[St]

A shit GM just lost 6 billion in the last 3 month,guess its time to shell out more money for a Joke of a company.If you look at FORD they stopped making SUV,there going with Small cars now.

[Drummer]

No disrespect intended Drummer but in March, Canada lost 287,000 jobs. No gov't bailout for them. Those people have to scramble and work their way back up.

When Chrysler was doing great, did the company give me anything? So now that it is doing bad and going down the drain, you want money from me, the taxpayer to save your job and pension? How does that work cause it doesn't make sense to me. Of course being in your position I would react and say exactly as you would. I'm not in front of the firing squad. But I am not, and the other 33. something million of Canada is not either and that's where the problem is. Most of us don't want to give a single penny of our tax dollars. The ideal of capitalism is if something like this happens, you go bankrupt fast. You find a new job like the rest of us do. You rebuild and someone else will just start up a new company and the market continues or another company moves in, like fiat. That is capitalism.
Now after all this, what if the economy goes even worst and after restructuring, chrysler still fails. Then what? How much did that cost the rest of us? When and if I lose my job, will you donate part of your tax money to bail me out of my mortgage or my car payments? I'll pay you back if I make it out of this mess, I promise.


I believe others should be helped too...

[Drummer]

A shit GM just lost 6 billion in the last 3 month,guess its time to shell out more money for a Joke of a company.If you look at FORD they stopped making SUV,there going with Small cars now.

your going to see all these a-holes finally wake up and make a change. Trust me, im tired of watching these dinosaurs do the wrong thing!

[spitfire]

I believe others should be helped too...

It would be nice but unfortunately the gov't has no money. Once they start printing money, we are royally screwed.

[Drummer]

It would be nice but unfortunately the gov't has no money. Once they start printing money, we are royally screwed.

all of the developed nations of the world (save for Japan) has been inflating the money supply in tandem with the US. It will come to an end one day, but not soon.

~D~

[kelly17]

The reason the global economy has went to shit is not because of the auto industry. Its the auto industry that is taking all the blame for this problem. People are right in the sense the auto workers are over paid and they need to restructer. Now seeing as it was the banking system that failed us and sent all the other sectors spiraling down. why people working for the banks didnt have to take a pay cut? or why do they still get bonuses? I hate seeing your average worker take the blame when it should be all on wallstreet!

Cheers
farmer brown

[cdnsoldier]

Yeah but GM still lost 6 billion with a 10 billin infusion. Insane.

[champcar99]

Yeah but GM still lost 6 billion with a 10 billin infusion. Insane.

what a joke....sounds like investing 101.. As cdnsolder says "Insane"

[Drummer]

The reason the global economy has went to shit is not because of the auto industry. Its the auto industry that is taking all the blame for this problem. People are right in the sense the auto workers are over paid and they need to restructer. Now seeing as it was the banking system that failed us and sent all the other sectors spiraling down. why people working for the banks didnt have to take a pay cut? or why do they still get bonuses? I hate seeing your average worker take the blame when it should be all on wallstreet!

Cheers
farmer brown

amen

[Drummer]

big 3 are a vital part of the economy, albiet the greedy *&)%*)(&% up top have messed things up quite a bit. You wont find a CEO in toyota earning more that a million or 2 a year... ONE ceo here can pay all high management there...

-- the banks, the oil men, and speculators raped the world and cause this implosion. Yet you dont see them going to jail or even being prosecuted - yet.

~D~