Saudi judge refuses to annul 8-year-old's marriage

[Andre]

What a messed up culture... Honestly, these people are nuts!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/04/12/saudi.child.marriage/index.html

Saudi judge refuses to annul 8-year-old's marriage
Story Highlights
NEW: Judge said girl could petition "once she reaches puberty," relative tells CNN

Girl's father arranged her marriage to a 47-year-old to settle debts, lawyer says

Appeals court declined to certify original ruling, sent case back to judge

Girl's mother says she will continue to seek daughter's divorce

By Mohammed Jamjoom
CNN
(CNN) -- A Saudi judge has refused for a second time to annul a marriage between an 8-year-old girl and a 47-year-old man, a relative of the girl told CNN.

The most recent ruling, in which the judge upheld his original verdict, was handed down Saturday in the Saudi city of Onaiza, where late last year the same judge rejected a petition from the girl's mother, who was seeking a divorce for her daughter.

The relative said the judge, Sheikh Habib Al-Habib, "stuck by his earlier verdict and insisted that the girl could petition the court for a divorce once she reached puberty." The family member, who requested anonymity, added that the mother will continue to pursue a divorce for her daughter.

The case, which has drawn criticism from local and international rights groups, came to light in December when al-Habib declined to annul the marriage on a legal technicality. The judge ruled the girl's mother -- who is separated from the girl's father -- was not the girl's legal guardian and therefore could not represent her in court, according to Abdullah al-Jutaili, the mother's lawyer.

The girl's father, according to the attorney, arranged the marriage in order to settle his debts with the man, who is "a close friend" of his. At the time of the initial verdict, the judge required the girl's husband to sign a pledge that he would not have sex with her until she reaches puberty, al-Jutaili told CNN. The judge ruled that when the girl reaches puberty, she will have the right to request a divorce by filing a petition with the court, the lawyer said.

Last month, an appeals court in the Saudi capital of Riyadh declined to certify the original ruling, in essence rejecting al-Habib's verdict, and sent the case back to al-Habib for reconsideration.

Under the complicated Saudi legal process, the appeals court ruling meant that the marriage was still in effect, but that a challenge to the marriage was still ongoing. The appeals court in Riyadh will now take up the case again and a hearing is scheduled for next month, according to the relative.

The issue of child marriage has been a hot-button topic in the deeply conservative kingdom recently. While rights groups have been petitioning the government to enact laws that would protect children from this type of marriage, the kingdom's top cleric has said that it's OK for girls as young as 10 to wed.

"It is incorrect to say that it's not permitted to marry off girls who are 15 and younger," Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Sheikh, the kingdom's grand mufti, said in remarks last January quoted in the regional Al-Hayat newspaper. "A girl aged 10 or 12 can be married. Those who think she's too young are wrong and they are being unfair to her."

Al-Sheikh reportedly made the remarks when he was asked during a lecture about parents forcing their underage daughters to marry.

"We hear a lot in the media about the marriage of underage girls," he said, according to the newspaper. "We should know that Sharia law has not brought injustice to women."

Sharia law is Islamic law. Saudi Arabia follows a strict interpretation of Islam called Wahhabism.

CNN was unable to reach government officials for comment.

Christoph Wilcke, a Saudi Arabia researcher for Human Rights Watch, told CNN in December that his organization has heard of many other cases of child marriages.

"We've been hearing about these types of cases once every four or five months because

[Beachmuscle]

What a messed up culture... Honestly, these people are nuts!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/04/12/saudi.child.marriage/index.html

Saudi judge refuses to annul 8-year-old's marriage
Story Highlights
NEW: Judge said girl could petition "once she reaches puberty," relative tells CNN

Girl's father arranged her marriage to a 47-year-old to settle debts, lawyer says

What a sick bunch of mother fawkers! "Once she reaches puberty".

Send in more troops, take all their oil, and give them jobs at McDonalds and Liquor stores when we build them there over their ****ing Mosques.

Pedophiles using religion to disquise their ****ed up perversions.

Selling your kid to settle debts???!!! I'd sell BOTH my Kidneys first, if that wasn't enough, take out a life insurance policy and accidentally loose control of my car at 100mph and hit a tree for the money for my child.

****ing sickos. I feel for the injustice to the Palestinians, but this is just outright disgusting.

[waderow]

we used to marry young too not more then 100 years ago. It is the way that they are raised, and the way their culture is.
SO, I am not completely disgusted by it as much as I am by the way they treat these wives of theirs.

That being said, I am adamant that if they are going to have that uncivilized culture, that it stays there in the desert, and that if they want to come here, they adopt our ways, and leave that shit behind.

[Andre]

The title of Grand Mufti (Arabic: مفتي عام‎) refers to the highest official of religious law in a Sunni Muslim country. The Grand Mufti issues legal opinions and edicts, fatwa, on interpretations of Islamic law for private clients or to assist judges in deciding cases.

"It is incorrect to say that it's not permitted to marry off girls who are 15 and younger," Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Sheikh, the kingdom's grand mufti, said in remarks last January quoted in the regional Al-Hayat newspaper. "A girl aged 10 or 12 can be married. Those who think she's too young are wrong and they are being unfair to her."

[Gib]

*converts*

But seriously, Muslims are trying to over throw the world. Research what is/was happening in Denmark. Look at what is happening all through europe to be honest. They go to a country, breed like crazy for years until they are a voting force then start to insist on laws being instituted which make their new nations like the shit hole countries they found life so terrible in they had to emigrate out of.

Then, worrying about the survival of your own culture (as I am) gets you labeled as an intolerant, anti-muslim racist.

[waderow]

^^^ and they are succeeding, quite well actually

[swolegantor]

Its pretty unfair to say this is what muslims are like. Considering most muslims are not arabs in the first place, and most arabs muslims think this is just as ridicoulous. That entire region is a cluster**** on everysingle level every ethnicity of ever religious creed is doing pretty awful things.


Anyone who considers their daughter, or any women...hell person for that matter as good as a commodity is a ****ing scum bag.

[Born2Juice4Ever]

*converts*

But seriously, Muslims are trying to over throw the world. Research what is/was happening in Denmark. Look at what is happening all through europe to be honest. They go to a country, breed like crazy for years until they are a voting force then start to insist on laws being instituted which make their new nations like the shit hole countries they found life so terrible in they had to emigrate out of.

Then, worrying about the survival of your own culture (as I am) gets you labeled as an intolerant, anti-muslim racist.

I NO like the sound of that...but I can see it happening a little.

Take for example: We arrived to this wonderful country just under 25 years ago...the Muslim (blacks Somalians, Ethiopians...)were NON existent...now a days you cannot drive for more than a minute without seeing a turban, or a bus driver with the koran in one hand...you get my point.
Over in Quebec however, I almost NEVER see any Muslims :D :D true!

Within regards to this marriage though, I wonder who in the right state of mind would even marry a 10 year old, a 15 year old...I mean for ****s sakes, the kid still has the umbellical cord attached to them. They don't even know how to wipe the snot off of their faces, let alone be MARRIED.
What does marriage constitude? Sex? cleaning of the house? cooking? having children?


Anyhow, it is always interesting to read about the shit some of those submit themselves to. I mean are these people at medium social level mentally speaking? Or are these lower end and poor level of society? Lower class? middle class?




B2J

[HoliTheCat]

*converts*

But seriously, Muslims are trying to over throw the world. Research what is/was happening in Denmark. Look at what is happening all through europe to be honest. They go to a country, breed like crazy for years until they are a voting force then start to insist on laws being instituted which make their new nations like the shit hole countries they found life so terrible in they had to emigrate out of.

Then, worrying about the survival of your own culture (as I am) gets you labeled as an intolerant, anti-muslim racist.

I strongly disagree with this statement. Muslims are doing no such thing. Now the chinese....

[Bowlcut]

I strongly disagree with this statement. Muslims are doing no such thing. Now the chinese....

At least the Chinese don't complain about religion this and actually work.

We can thank Trudeau for this mess. He wanted multiculturalism and the masses went along with it.

I propose BC minus the coast, Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba form a new country. It would be rad.

[waderow]

Its pretty unfair to say this is what muslims are like. Considering most muslims are not arabs in the first place, and most arabs muslims think this is just as ridicoulous. That entire region is a cluster**** on everysingle level every ethnicity of ever religious creed is doing pretty awful things.


Anyone who considers their daughter, or any women...hell person for that matter as good as a commodity is a ****ing scum bag.

in my experience, with muslims and a know a few, their way is right, and some will put on a western front, but in their home things are very different.
I piss on the Koran

[Born2Juice4Ever]

I don't believe this is an issue relevant to religion per say, but more to towards those who are radicals.
We can take Pentecostals for example, this is one form of believe that I am very well inversed on because I know close friends that follow it.
From an outsider (such as myself) I see this to be very VERY illogical in some forms way of living. Practices such as going to church SEVERAL times per week, NOT owning a television, donating expensive items to the church, not wearing jewlery--donating it to the priest--WTF and so one.

The Muslim religion is not bad IMO, but the people that go to illogical lengths are.
Those who believe thtat by dying in a bomb act, and killing 100s is the way God (Allah) THEIR GOD, would want them to go---not it is not like that.
We see an Arab walking into a mall and we automatically racial profile his ass....well he probably has radical believes, who knows.
At the place where I work, there is this asshole who is a true Muslim. The guy is such an idiot, one of this days he is going to get punched out...not by me, but he has been pissing off a couple of other guys lately...... he is only in his mid 20s, but can barely walk straight from back problems----yeah karma is a bitch sometimes you cocksucker!!

I've heard of people saying that all Muslims should be transported to an island and be bombed...well again, another illogical destructive way of thinking, as those too are humans being. I am sure those ****ers look at us fromover there, and probably think the same thing.


Anyhow sorry for the name calling and other illegal behaviour and so sorry for the spelling mistakes:D :D



B2J

[waderow]

Islam is a religion of hatred, oppression, and violence. In order for it to be "peaceful" you have to INTERPRET it in a peaceful manner, as literally it is a book of filth.

[swolegantor]

How about all religions are pretty much full of hatred and ignorance. The fact that people who are completely rational in day to day processes but go home to believe in some imaginary man in the sky perpetually blows my mind.

Christians/Muslims/Jews/Hindus/Whites/Blacks/Asians/Purple people have all done terrible ****ing shit and will continue to do so until we all ****ing die. I dont know why anyone thinks that they are somehow above it whilst at the same time pointing the almighty finger. (For example. We complain about "forgieners" comming here and destroying our culture....guess what the **** we did in a much worse way about 200 years ago to the natives)

[HoliTheCat]

How about all religions are pretty much full of hatred and ignorance. The fact that people who are completely rational in day to day processes but go home to believe in some imaginary man in the sky perpetually blows my mind.

Christians/Muslims/Jews/Hindus/Whites/Blacks/Asians/Purple people have all done terrible ****ing shit and will continue to do so until we all ****ing die. I dont know why anyone thinks that they are somehow above it whilst at the same time pointing the almighty finger. (For example. We complain about "forgieners" comming here and destroying our culture....guess what the **** we did in a much worse way about 200 years ago to the natives)

Well said bro. I 100% aqree. It is a very elitest mentality to think that the 'american' way is the civilized way or even the correct way. And to further your point the 'white man' continues to to try and force our views and ways still to this day and probably in another 200 years we will still be doing it. At least now it is a 'black' church going man' leading the charge...

****ing brutal.

[waderow]

How about all religions are pretty much full of hatred and ignorance. The fact that people who are completely rational in day to day processes but go home to believe in some imaginary man in the sky perpetually blows my mind.

Christians/Muslims/Jews/Hindus/Whites/Blacks/Asians/Purple people have all done terrible ****ing shit and will continue to do so until we all ****ing die. I dont know why anyone thinks that they are somehow above it whilst at the same time pointing the almighty finger. (For example. We complain about "forgieners" comming here and destroying our culture....guess what the **** we did in a much worse way about 200 years ago to the natives)

yeah, and we pay them dearly now (which ruins them further). According to Islam, we will be taken over, and if we do not convert, we, the overtaken will be enslaved and pay them dearly LOL Its in their book and it is called the Jizya tax I believe?

[HoliTheCat]

Islam is a religion of hatred, oppression, and violence. In order for it to be "peaceful" you have to INTERPRET it in a peaceful manner, as literally it is a book of filth.

Have you read the Koran?

[AlladdinSane]

...but the people that go to illogical lengths are.

B2J

Belief in God is in itself illogical.

[waderow]

Have you read the Koran?

I own and have referenced it, but not read it fully. I have read books pertaining to the koran, and referred to the koran in context pertaining to the discussions

[HoliTheCat]

^^^ yeah, and we pay them dearly now (which ruins them further). According to Islam, we will be taken over, and if we do not convert, we, the overtaken will be enslaved and pay them dearly LOL Its in their book and it is called the Jizya tax I believe?

Same can be said for Catholics. If you aren't Catholic you will burn in hell forever. Sweet!

[AlladdinSane]

How about all religions are pretty much full of hatred and ignorance. The fact that people who are completely rational in day to day processes but go home to believe in some imaginary man in the sky perpetually blows my mind.


Ditto.

[HoliTheCat]

I own and have referenced it, but not read it fully. I have read books pertaining to the koran, and referred to the koran in context pertaining to the discussions

And you find through other peoples 'findings' that the Koran is what...a book of hate?

[waderow]

And you find through other peoples 'findings' that the Koran is what...a book of hate?

I am not ignorant, that is why I referred to the actual book to confirm this, and yes, it is a book of hate

[HoliTheCat]

I am not ignorant, that is why I referred to the actual book to confirm this, and yes, it is a book of hate

Please provide references to this hate...

What is funny is this conversation was one I had the other day with my girlfriends Grandfather and her Dad. (Her Dad has a PhD in religious studies and is the dean at his place of teaching - not a religious man at all) and her Grandfather is a devote christian who was reading some whack rightwing book talking about exactly this discussion (how Muslims want to take over the world). The discusion concluded with her Dad giving the Grandfather a copy of the Koran (or rather mailing it)...

Weird how things are...

[waderow]

i am at work and will post later tonight

[Bowlcut]

Christopher Hitchens says it best when he refers to Islam as a plagiarism of Christianity and Jewism.

[Beachmuscle]

we used to marry young too not more then 100 years ago. It is the way that they are raised, and the way their culture is.
SO, I am not completely disgusted by it as much as I am by the way they treat these wives of theirs.

That being said, I am adamant that if they are going to have that uncivilized culture, that it stays there in the desert, and that if they want to come here, they adopt our ways, and leave that shit behind.

Good point, but it still sickens me about the girl being 8. Keep it in there own sandbox.

"I piss on the Koran"... "It is a book of hate".. That's a little RADICAL dude. I find that offensive and I'm not even Muslim.

There are passages in the Talimud or whatever the Jewish people call it that can be interpreted in awful ways too.

For example.. "It's not ok to steal from a Jew, but it's ok to steal from a non jew, especially if you go to another city"... etc, etc.

All religious books have a little hate in them. It's up to US to be tolerant, filter out the HATE and live in PEACE.

Discussing these types of issues, Muslims, Jews, Christians only leads to animosity and HATE.

We all have to learn to AGREE to DISAGREE. There are radicals in ALL religions. These are the people that need to be silenced.

Lets face it, peace is just a dream as long as we can't just throw away those damn thousand year old books and learn to come to a middle ground between all and put all the radicals on an island with a bunch of guns and let them sort it out themselves.

[Andre]

I am not a racist... but today's fanatical muslims are pure evil...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7891955.stm
Pakistan has signed a peace deal with a Taleban group that will lead to the enforcement of the Islamic Sharia law in the restive Swat valley.
Regional officials urged the Taleban, who agreed a 10-day truce on Sunday, to lay down their arms permanently.

Once one of Pakistan's most popular holiday destinations, the Swat valley is now mostly under Taleban control.

Thousands of people have fled and hundreds of schools have been destroyed since the Taleban insurgency in 2007.

Chief Minister of North West Frontier Province Ameer Hussain Hoti announced a bill had been signed that would implement a new "order of justice" in the Malakand division, which includes Swat.

The bill will create a separate system of justice for the whole region.

The BBC's M Ilyas Khan, who was recently in Swat, says the Taleban had already set up their own system of Islamic justice, as they understand it.


Their campaign against female education has led to tens of thousands of children being denied an education, our correspondent says.

US envoy to Pakistan and Afghanistan Richard Holbrooke, who is in India, said he needed more information on the deal but that the situation in Swat had "deeply affected the people of Pakistan, not just in Peshawar but in Lahore and in Islamabad".

Mr Holbrooke said Swat "demonstrates a key point and that is that India, the United States and Pakistan have all a common threat now... [we] all face an enemy which possesses a direct threat to our leadership".

'Very positive'


The government of North West Frontier Province had been holding talks with local militant leader, Sufi Mohammad, on making amendments to the enforcement of Sharia in Swat.
Sufi Mohammad, a pro-Taleban cleric, is the father-in-law of Maulana Fazlullah, who has been waging a violent campaign to impose Sharia in the region.

Mr Hoti said: "An agreement has been reached with Sufi Mohammad's delegation and this is a great

"The recommendations and proposals have been finalised, but they can only be implemented after peace is achieved."

Mr Hoti said President Asif Ali Zardari had "in principle... approved this package".

Mr Hoti said the agreement had not been made "under pressure from anyone" and was not unconstitutional.

"It was reached after realisation that it was the demand of the people."

The chief minister said the government had done all it could and asked for the Taleban to now lay down their arms.

He said a grand jirga (council) led by Sufi Mohammad would now be going to Swat to get all the factions to comply.


The Taleban have said they will examine the document before ending hostilities permanently.

The Agence France-Presse news agency quoted Sufi Mohammad as saying: "We had been holding negotiations with the government on a 22-point charter of demands for quite some time. There were differences on five points, which were removed in a meeting on Sunday."


Sharia law has been in force in Malakand since 1994. But appeal cases are heard in the Peshawar high court, which operates under the civil code.
Our correspondent says there will be alterations to the appeals process - a point of contention often cited by the militants for their continued insurgency.

The agreement will bind the provincial government to implement Sharia law in the Malakand division, which comprises Swat and its adjoining areas.

The people of Swat have been caught in the crossfire between the army and the Taleban, our correspondent says.

More than 1,000 civilians have died in shelling by the army or from beheadings sanctioned by the Taleban. Thousands more have been displaced.

The Taleban now control the entire countryside of Swat, limiting army control to parts of the valley's capital, Mingora.

Many people in Swat now would favour an early exit by the army as they have failed to roll back the Taleban or protect the Taleban's opponents, says our correspondent.








Story from BBC NEWS:



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[RagingRandy]

Lets face it, peace is just a dream as long as we can't just throw away those damn thousand year old books

Funny thing. Once one of those 1000 year old book was thrown out of our schools and society in general violence, bullying, and hate are on the increase. As a person who is well acquainted with the message of the Bible, I will tell you that it teaches virtues such as "love your enemy" which are sadly lacking in today's world. People should not comment on things they no have knowledge of.

If I was to carry out horrific acts and blame it on my cat no one would believe me. Yet if I was to state that I did them in the name of some religion people are to quit to condemn that religion or belief system as a whole.

As for B2J comments, to liken it to bodybuilding, you put your time, money, and energy into this sport because it is something that you care about. It is something you believe in. People who are dedicated to a religious belief are no different.

In the end respect must be given to all. To be frank, there is no group of people that respect life more than true followers of Christ. If you can "love those that hate you" and "bless those that curse you" as Christ taught, you can then start preaching to me about tolerance.

[Beachmuscle]

Funny thing. Once one of those 1000 year old book was thrown out of our schools and society in general violence, bullying, and hate are on the increase.

So you're saying because they took the bible out of schools that is why we have more violence and bullying in school and society?

I would blame this more on the media and lack of parental guidance.

Murder and atrocities have been committed in the name of religion since the begginning of history. It's a pointless argument.. the Salem Witch Trials, Vaginal Mutilations, it's all bullshit in the name of ****ing thousand year old books and outdated religous radicals.

I'm leaving this thread, and threads like this should be banned from this site. They are pointless and lead in circles.

Nuke the whole world and lets start all over. That's the solution.

[swolegantor]

Funny thing. Once one of those 1000 year old book was thrown out of our schools and society in general violence, bullying, and hate are on the increase. As a person who is well acquainted with the message of the Bible, I will tell you that it teaches virtues such as "love your enemy" which are sadly lacking in today's world. People should not comment on things they no have knowledge of.

If I was to carry out horrific acts and blame it on my cat no one would believe me. Yet if I was to state that I did them in the name of some religion people are to quit to condemn that religion or belief system as a whole.

As for B2J comments, to liken it to bodybuilding, you put your time, money, and energy into this sport because it is something that you care about. It is something you believe in. People who are dedicated to a religious belief are no different.

In the end respect must be given to all. To be frank, there is no group of people that respect life more than true followers of Christ. If you can "love those that hate you" and "bless those that curse you" as Christ taught, you can then start preaching to me about tolerance.

The notion that seperating Church and State, or in essence the push towards religion being a private aspect of life will perpetuate the degredation of society is ridicoulous.

Im just going to leave it at that because trying to disolve whack-o statements like this is just an exercise in redundancey

[RagingRandy]

^^^^ I wish the separation you so desire was actually truth but it is not. The state continues to meddle in the affair of religion. As of right now this leaves a one way separation.

I completely agree with your second statement.