Tren and T3

[Rhinobolt10]

Just wondering if it's recomended to run a small dose of T3 with Tren as I've heard that it can lower your thyroid values while on it.

[hyperlite32]

where did you hear that...

[Rhinobolt10]

I can't completely remember, so I thought I'd throw a post up and see what some guys thought.

[bigdaddydrew123]

with trens fat burning effect,i doubt it lowers t4,i did here it increases igf in tne body

[natenator]

with trens fat burning effect,i doubt it lowers t4,i did here it increases igf in tne body
tren doesn't burn fat. No AAS burns fat.

[Benny62]

when your body is in an anabolic state it creates a fat burning environment so It may not directly burn fat but with the right diet while taking a drug that is more anabolic than androgenic the one sideside effect is fat loss and muscle retention or anti catabolism. Tren is definitely strong in its anabolic properties as is anavar and winstrol.

[natenator]

when your body is in an anabolic state it creates a fat burning environment so It may not directly burn fat but with the right diet while taking a drug that is more anabolic than androgenic the one sideside effect is fat loss and muscle retention or anti catabolism. Tren is definitely strong in its anabolic properties as is anavar and winstrol.
yes but the drug itself does not burn fat. AAS cannot oxidize FFA's

[JonnyO]

Tren and T3 is a great combo to get hard. Doesnt take much of either.

[gustavo77]

I have read many times that tren lowers t-3 but i have not seen any clinical data on it. As stated before, they are a great combo for cutting though...

[randysavage]

tren doesn't burn fat. No AAS burns fat.



LMFAO , Another asinine statement from the resident ass. I am convinced you never juiced or lifted in your life. You're the cell phone, dress show wearing crowd that loves to look at big bodies at the gym.

OF COURSE SOME AAS burn fat . Anavar is one example that has been scientifically proven to do so even though the mechanisms aren't fully understood.

Just plain wow at this clown. :moon


Abdominal and visceral fat were both reduced in one study when subjects in the low/normal natural testosterone range used anavar (4). In another study, appendicular, total, and trunk fat were all reduced with a relatively small dose of 20mgs/day (8), and no exercise. In addition, weight gained with ´var may be nearly permanent too. It might not be much, but you´ll stand a good chance of keeping most of it. In one study, subjects maintained their weight (re)gains from anavar for at least 6 months after cessation (2)! Concomitantly, in another study, Twelve weeks after discontinuing oxandrolone, 83% of the reductions in total, trunk, and extremity fat were also sustained (8)! If you´re regaining weight, Anavar will give you nearly permanent gains, and if you are trying to lose fat (and you keep your diet in check), the fat lost with Anavar is basically looks to be nearly permanent. Check this chart out:

Absolute change in total fat mass (A) and trunk fat (B) by dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry from baseline to study week 12 (solid bars) and from baseline to study week 24 (open bars) in the placebo (n = 12) and the oxandrolone (n = 20) study groups. Values are means ± SE. *Significant decrease from baseline, P < 0.001. Significant difference between study groups for change in fat mass from 0 to 12 wk, P < 0.001. (15)(8)

[natenator]

LMFAO , Another asinine statement from the resident ass. I am convinced you never juiced or lifted in your life. You're the cell phone, dress show wearing crowd that loves to look at big bodies at the gym.

OF COURSE SOME AAS burn fat . Anavar is one example that has been scientifically proven to do so even though the mechanisms aren't fully understood.

Just plain wow at this clown. :moon
source please?

[randysavage]

source please?



I just quoted a scientific study. There are literally 100's of studies done that shows Anavar is a potent fat burner and an APPETITE suppressant. It's mechanisms are not fully understood but it may stimulate the hypothalamus in ways an amphetamine can. They don't know how but it's clear anavr is much more than just a AAS. In fact the fat loss in studies with Anavar rival amphetamine. When you get out of grade school they will teach you how to use scientific journals. Until then you have to take my word son.

[natenator]

I just quoted a scientific study. There are literally 100's of studies done that shows Anavar is a potent fat burner and an APPETITE suppressant. It's mechanisms are not fully understood but it may stimulate the hypothalamus in ways an amphetamine can. They don't know how but it's clear anavr is much more than just a AAS. In fact the fat loss in studies with Anavar rival amphetamine. When you get out of grade school they will teach you how to use scientific journals. Until then you have to take my word son.
cite your source or shut up. Pubmed? NEJM? Cite your source.

[randysavage]

cite your source or shut up. Pubmed? NEJM? Cite your source.



No I won't shut up especially when wannabes like you give out advice that amounts to someone who never lifted (i.e- no such thing as overtraining, anavar doesn't burn fat). You expect to see this stuff on Elitefitness circa 1989 not 2009.

You don't need 100 studies to tell you Anavar burns fat more so than just being a mere testosterone boost. Any one who ever took Anavar knows (and I know you don't lift or take so you'll never understand) knows damn well that this drug burns fat.

Then again from a dude that states there is no such thing as over training I don't expect you to understand.

[natenator]

No I won't shut up especially when wannabes like you give out advice that amounts to someone who never lifted (i.e- no such thing as overtraining, anavar doesn't burn fat). You expect to see this stuff on Elitefitness circa 1989 not 2009.

You don't need 100 studies to tell you Anavar burns fat more so than just being a mere testosterone boost. Any one who ever took Anavar knows (and I know you don't lift or take so you'll never understand) knows damn well that this drug burns fat.

Then again from a dude that states there is no such thing as over training I don't expect you to understand.
cite your source

[randysavage]

cite your source

Here you go Natalie. I see you're in Toronto. We can meet at U of T and I'll show you how to use the big boy library after I teach you how to speak to grown ups:

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Oct;89(10):4863-72.

J Appl Physiol 96: 1055-1062, 2004. First published October 24, 2003; doi:10.1152/japplphysiol.00808.2003 8750-7587/04

Let me guess? You're actually going to read those studies? Lmao. What a poser.

[gustavo77]

LMFAO , Another asinine statement from the resident ass. I am convinced you never juiced or lifted in your life. You're the cell phone, dress show wearing crowd that loves to look at big bodies at the gym.

OF COURSE SOME AAS burn fat . Anavar is one example that has been scientifically proven to do so even though the mechanisms aren't fully understood.

Just plain wow at this clown. :moon

Haven't you already been warned about this shit?? There is nothing wrong with stating your option and having an intelligent discussion but your are constantly being a dick to members of this board. Take two weeks to think whether you can actually be a mature member of this board...

[champcar99]

Haven't you already been warned about this shit?? There is nothing wrong with stating your option and having an intelligent discussion but your constantly being a dick to members of this board. Take two weeks to think whether you can actually be a mature member of this board...


I am sure I am saying this on behalf of a few members here GUS
:tu:tu:tu

[natenator]

Here you go Natalie. I see you're in Toronto. We can meet at U of T and I'll show you how to use the big boy library after I teach you how to speak to grown ups:

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Oct;89(10):4863-72.

J Appl Physiol 96: 1055-1062, 2004. First published October 24, 2003; doi:10.1152/japplphysiol.00808.2003 8750-7587/04

Let me guess? You're actually going to read those studies? Lmao. What a poser.
So I read the studies and nothing that I could read (and feel free to correct me if I am wrong) indicates that var directly oxidizes free fatty acids but rather the increase in LMB leads to an decrease in overall bodyfat.

[#8]

So I read the studies and nothing that I could read (and feel free to correct me if I am wrong) indicates that var directly oxidizes free fatty acids but rather the increase in LMB leads to an decrease in overall bodyfat.

without getting in the middle of this....isnt that the same thing? semantics really....

[natenator]

without getting in the middle of this....isnt that the same thing? semantics really....
No. DNP is a drug that can directly oxidize fat cells. It does not require an increase in LBM to reduce bodyfat.

AAS (as far as I have always read and been aware) indirectly creates a mechanism for bodyfat reduction through the increase of LBM. We all know the more muscle mass you have the higher your metabolism will be.

[bigdaddydrew123]

tren doesn't burn fat. No AAS burns fat.

common knowledge test reduces belly fat,,when your sweatin your ass off at night with tren something is burning up,its not muscle

[bigdaddydrew123]

so gh doesnt burn fat?

[natenator]

so gh doesnt burn fat?
is GH androgenic or anabolic?

[natenator]

common knowledge test reduces belly fat,,when your sweatin your ass off at night with tren something is burning up,its not muscle
post your research please. Common knowledge around here is like bro'science.

[waderow]

tried to give some green for being a fonzy nate, but need to spread.... :(

[natenator]

fyi this has been discussed before. Maybe some of you will clue in that AAS does NOT burn fat.

http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?p=153765#post153765

[bigdaddydrew123]

post your research please. Common knowledge around here is like bro'science.
i read alot of studies and have for years ,im not gonna impress you by ssplitting hairs,aas reduces bf,whether by increase in lbm or by increase in igf as tren has been shown to,in reality it doesnt matter what some research study says ,because if they were all accurate we would be dead from high protein consumption and aas use,my kidneys should have failed years ago according to some studies.
i know when im laying in bed sweating from tren im burning up something and it aint muscle. i dont care what mechanism it is.

[bigdaddydrew123]

is GH androgenic or anabolic?
nether but you cant say that gh doesnt reduce bf,this is just an exercise in word play does it reduce bf or burn bf,most times your right it is areduction in bf due to increase lbm,but i do know even when i get too fat while on there is less fat on my belly,i will try and find that study.

[canadianmuscle0803]

yes Tren lowers your thyroid activity, running 25mcgs of T3 is not a bad idea if your on a long cycle.

[jsv22]

No. DNP is a drug that can directly oxidize fat cells. It does not require an increase in LBM to reduce bodyfat.

AAS (as far as I have always read and been aware) indirectly creates a mechanism for bodyfat reduction through the increase of LBM. We all know the more muscle mass you have the higher your metabolism will be.

DNP doesn't directly oxidize fat but it acts to 'uncouple oxidative phosphorylation' (dissipates the mitochondria proton gradient)...which essentially causes your body to increase energy consumption to maintain production...anyways,

I think your right regarding the increase in LBM causing increased fat loss. But who knows....there is a considerable lack of data in this area, we know more about supplementation of estrogen in males with regard to metabolic changes LOL
:confused:

[Gettin'r'round]

Spammed from LEF.org
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/jul2008_Optimizing-Testosterone-Levels-in-Aging-Men_01.htm

Testosterone and Body Composition

With the obesity epidemic raging and its tremendous impact on the overall health of our nation’s population, integrative physicians are particularly interested in the role testosterone plays in body composition. Testosterone appears to affect fat cell metabolism and fat loss in several ways through:

*

Inhibiting fat storage by blocking a key enzyme called lipoprotein lipase that is necessary for the uptake of fat into the body’s fat cells. When fat cells are exposed to testosterone in a test tube, the activity of lipoprotein lipase is dramatically reduced.
*

Stimulating fat burning by increasing the number of certain receptors on the fat-cell membrane that release stored fat.17
*

Increasing insulin sensitivity and improving lipid and insulin metabolism, while enhancing growth of muscle fibers and decreasing fat deposits.

All of these effects benefit body composition by promoting lean body mass and reducing fat mass.18,19
Testosterone and Body Composition

In a landmark study out of Sweden in 1991, researchers gave a group of overweight men supplemental testosterone for six weeks.20 After this time, they found the activity of the fat-storage enzyme lipoprotein lipase to be dramatically reduced in abdominal fat tissue. Waist and hip circumference also decreased in 9 of the 11 men.

Furthermore, a recent review highlights numerous placebo-controlled trials that have demonstrated both significant increases in lean body mass and decreases in fat mass after varying courses of testosterone supplementation in older men.21 In these studies, the greatest favorable changes in body composition were seen in participants with low baseline testosterone levels who received testosterone therapy for a period in excess of 12 months.

[natenator]

nether but you cant say that gh doesnt reduce bf,this is just an exercise in word play does it reduce bf or burn bf,most times your right it is areduction in bf due to increase lbm,but i do know even when i get too fat while on there is less fat on my belly,i will try and find that study.
my comment was that AAS does not burn fat. Thank you for confirming that GH is neither androgenic nor anabolic - as if I didn't already know this.

[natenator]

i read alot of studies and have for years ,im not gonna impress you by ssplitting hairs,aas reduces bf,whether by increase in lbm or by increase in igf as tren has been shown to,in reality it doesnt matter what some research study says ,because if they were all accurate we would be dead from high protein consumption and aas use,my kidneys should have failed years ago according to some studies.
i know when im laying in bed sweating from tren im burning up something and it aint muscle. i dont care what mechanism it is.
Well is does matter because the idea the AAS burns fat would imply a person could eat everything and anything they wanted above their daily caloric expenditure and still burn fat (get leaner) and we all know (or at least we SHOULD all know) that this just isn't true.

[cdnsoldier]

Well is does matter because the idea the AAS burns fat would imply a person could eat everything and anything they wanted above their daily caloric expenditure and still burn fat (get leaner) and we all know (or at least we SHOULD all know) that this just isn't true.

Gettin'r'round has posted a nice little bit about it. No one is wrong or right here because the research isn't conclusive.

You ask me? Yes it's true but who knows. Could be LBM increasing and making me a furnace.

[Praetorian]

An increase in androgens will create an environment that is conducive to fat oxidation if and only if certain other variables are at work. Just taking testosterone alone will not make you lean nor start burning excess BF in athletes. A study concerning geriatric men with very low test levels does not equate to BB or athletes. The body does and will hold on to stubborn fat stores when androgen levels drop this is quite well documented. So adding test to this equation leads to greater fat loss but as so many incorrectly interpret does not lead to fat oxidation directly. The same holds true for tren and other androgens. To make things as simple as possible aas build and/or maintain muscle mass, they raise androgen levels which (this harder look) is incorrectly interpreted as leaner or less BF, and they help create a fat burning environment. Drugs such as Clenbuterol, HGH, T3, etc have direct relation to fat oxidation. Thus the combination of aas and "fat burners" will yield dramatic results when coupled with a proper diet/training/cardio routine.
P

[bigdaddydrew123]

Well is does matter because the idea the AAS burns fat would imply a person could eat everything and anything they wanted above their daily caloric expenditure and still burn fat (get leaner) and we all know (or at least we SHOULD all know) that this just isn't true.
you are right there and those same [eople aply the same logic to clen t3 ephedrine etc when the fact is those drugs should be additive to a good diet and training regimen,drugs alone dont give you that or wed all be ripped and large

[bigdaddydrew123]

my comment was that AAS does not burn fat. Thank you for confirming that GH is neither androgenic nor anabolic - as if I didn't already know this.
iknow you would know that but you assumed from your reply i didnt know that.my point was ....ahhh who cares

[natenator]

iknow you would know that but you assumed from your reply i didnt know that.my point was ....ahhh who cares
lol just friendly debate dude.

[IronRobi]

OK, how about this.... Certain AAS (tren being a prime example) raise your body temperature. The higher your body temperature, the higher the activity of certain enzymes which causes more energy expendature. That all relates to a higher metabolic rate. And we all know the harder your metabolism works the more fat you can burn. So from this, you can say that certain AAS do indeed cause fat loss.

[bigdaddydrew123]

OK, how about this.... Certain AAS (tren being a prime example) raise your body temperature. The higher your body temperature, the higher the activity of certain enzymes which causes more energy expendature. That all relates to a higher metabolic rate. And we all know the harder your metabolism works the more fat you can burn. So from this, you can say that certain AAS do indeed cause fat loss.
nate?

[natenator]

nate?
Not sure I'd agree with that either. Sitting in a sauna raises body temp as does summer heat.

[bigdaddydrew123]

does ephedrine work by raising body temp,i guess technically food could be a fat burner,too little food loss of metabolism,a good cheat meal raises body temp like crazy,my question is there really a supplement that actually burns fat or is it thermogenesis

[Zeron]

How about Tren and T/4 100mcg same or is T/3 a better fit?? At what does 25/50 etc.

Thanks z..........

[Gettin'r'round]

why bother with T4? There were some thoughts that a proper ratio T4/T3 would not "surpress" endogenous thyroid production. Thoughts but no proof and how much supression is there really?