Best PCT????

[canadianmuscle0803]

im going off my cycle, starting the first of this month I will be doing PCT, i need all the input possible from you guys on what the best PCT is.. i will be doing, HCG, clomid, nolvadex and aromasin.. any input on how much of each and how long I need to do this would be great, this is my first time off in close to 2 yrs..

[giannos]

Wow... first time off in 2 years.. I would think you need some heavy HCG in there to kickstart your boys..

HCG 1500-2000IU E3D ( I'd do 10,000 IU's total )
Aromasin at 25 mg ED Week 1-6
Clomid once HCG stops at 100mg ED for 3 weeks Then try another 2 weeks at 50mg.

Some people find the sides harsh on clomid. I'm use to it now, so 100 ED for 3-4 weeks is fine for me...

Gus is the man to chime in here....

[Rhinobolt10]

My buddy raves about the test taper, never tried it but if he ever comes off it's what he does.

I like hcg for 2 weeks with high doses 2 shots a week, and then 4 weeks of nolva... I notice. most important thing I find, and this is for me personally, is to wait like a month so start pct just to get the long estered stuff out of my system... I found this out the hard way the last time I came off.

Or I've always been a fan of 250mgs of test a week for pct.

[MARITIME STEEL]

You could also add in some HMG to get everything working the way it should,

[bottleneckblooz]

You could also add in some HMG to get everything working the way it should,

I imagine that stuff would be hard to get since it's fairly new, plus expensive.

[Praetorian]

Here is what I recommend for most clients(some may require more HCG and longer duration depending on age and length of cycle)...Dave P has some good insight have a read.

PCT by Dave Palumbo
"Whenever one considers stopping an anabolic steroid cycle, it is extremely important to wean yourself off of the drugs very slowly. For instance, if someone were taking 1000mg of sustanon per week, they would not want to just abruptly stop taking everything. The problem with just “stopping” a cycle, while taking such a high dosage of steroids, is that you may suffer the very unfortunate fate of “crashing”. In bodybuilding circles, when we talk of “crashing” we are referring to the situation whereby the user abruptly stops taking any exogenous anabolic steroids yet they also have no endogenous (natural) production of testosterone (due to the temporary shutdown
of their pituitary gland from all the aromatizing steroids the user is taking). Usually it takes approximately 2-3 weeks for natural testosterone to start being produced. It is during this 2-3 week period that the user is extremely vulnerable to viruses (caused by a suppressed immune system), low sex drive (caused by a low testosterone level), and worst of all, lean muscle losses (also caused
by low testosterone levels). How can we prevent this “crash” of the endogenous hormonal systems from occurring? First off, in the first week, it is a really smart idea to slowly lower the amounts of all injected anabolic steroids (bring injected testosterone levels immediately down to 500mg per week). Secondly (week 2), go off all oral compounds and stop all injected anabolics (with the exception of long-acting injected testosterones—keep them at 500mg per week). It is a good idea to
stay on long acting testosterones (such as testosterone cypionate or testosterone enanthate) as opposed to short acting ones (such as testosterone propionate or testosterone phenylpropionate) because the long duration esters will slowly leave the bloodstream over the course
of 3-4 weeks (therefore, there will always be some hormone present) during which time the user’s body will have a chance to start producing endogenous testosterone. Thirdly (around week 4), following the last dose of injected
testosterone, the user should start a 2 week course of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG). Every second day, the user should inject 2000 IU’s of HCG. HCG is a hormone that mimics the effects of the pituitary hormone Luteining Hormone (LH). LH, in men, stimulates
the leydig cells of the testicles to produce testosterone (this will effectively “kickstart” the inactive testes).
Lastly (around week 6), Clomid (clomiphene citrate) should be administered orally at a dose of 50mg two times per day (for 2 weeks). Clomid is a synthetic estrogen that, in men, can perform two functions: a) Clomid antagonizes estrogen receptors (somewhat
inhibiting the estrogenic side effects of aromatizing anabolic steroids).b) Clomid mimics the effects of the hypothalamic hormone Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GRH). In humans, GRH stimulates the pituitary gland to produce LH and Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH). This final role of Clomid, then, is to help awaken the pituitary gland that has been suppressed from the heavy anabolic steroid cycle
that was just recently ceased. Once the last Clomid pill has been swallowed, it is time to allow
the body to restore its natural endogenous hormonal system to normal. This restoration may take upwards of 2-4 weeks. I suggest staying off all synthetic anabolic steroids for at least 6-8 weeks following the ingestion of the last Clomid pill. This “break” should give your liver cells adequate time to detoxify themselves and your muscle cell receptors enough time to, once again, become receptive to anabolic stimuli."
'

SUMMARY:
- HCG: 2000mg every second day for two weeks
- Clomid: (start after conclusion of HCG cycle) 50mg two times per day for two weeks
- Aromatase Inhibitor: aromasin 12.5-25mg ED starting with HCG and running 4 more weeks after cessation of clomid at 12.5mg ED

Tips:
If running clomid nolva is not required...in acutality clomid is better at restarting the pituitary then nolva is. Aromasin is much better than Armididex in that it doesnt mess with blood lipid profiles and is more efficient at reducing estrogen. After stopping the clomid you need to get blood work done to check
endo test levels to see if your testes are responding to the HCG (LH) stimulation. If so then jusy continue the aromasin and you are good to go after that. If not youll need to run another course of HCG and do the test again.
HMG should not be required....you could test your sperm count once your test levels are back to within normal ranges and see...if your count is low you may want to try HMG. Normally this isnt necessary...its individualistic.
HMG is also not new...its been around for awhile most BB were just unaware of it.
P

[canadianmuscle0803]

my last shot was on the 15th, i was taking test E, Tren E, when should i start the HCG?

[Praetorian]

my last shot was on the 15th, i was taking test E, Tren E, when should i start the HCG?

Monday would be a week from your last shot so that would be ideal.
P

[canadianmuscle0803]

Today!
P

whatttttt? seriously?

[natenator]

lol

[canadianmuscle0803]

lol

its not funny :(

[Praetorian]

It takes 3-4 weeks for long esters to get out of the system. If you start say today or Monday not much of a difference and run HCG for two weeks then when your endo test is starting to work almost all exo test is now gone...you thus avoid the inevitable crash. I usually run HCG longer because of my age so 3-4 weeks.
P

[canadianmuscle0803]

i just pumped in 2,000iu of HCG, im going to run a total of 15,000iu over say 4 weeks or so.. thanks for the insight.

[natenator]

its not funny :(
sorry dude. Didn't mean to laugh at you. Just sort funny at P's reply.. NOW! that's all

[canadianmuscle0803]

sorry dude. Didn't mean to laugh at you. Just sort funny at P's reply.. NOW! that's all

this next month is going to be hell for me, im gonna try to go to my Doc and get more PCT stuff.

[Praetorian]

It shouldnt be hell. Run the HCG 2000iu three times per week or EOD along with the aromasin. You can also run 2iu GH ED and 50mcg clen ED as well. If you havent been taking creatine start monohydrate now at 10g twice daily for two weeks then drop to 5 g twice daily...morning and post workout. Drop the volume of your training to max two working sets per bodypart 4 exercises for large 3 for small...keep the rep range 8-10 and dont go to failure just before. Reduce training to four days per week. Avoid stimulants as much as possible. Dont worry about losing you wont on this protocol. Keep eating 6 clean meals per day with a cheat or two on the weekends. Try to relax and chill as much as possible.
P

[monkey]

Avoid stimulants as much as possible. Dont worry about losing you wont on this protocol. Keep eating 6 clean meals per day with a cheat or two on the weekends. Try to relax and chill as much as possible.
P[/QUOTE]

Hi.. just wondering why he should avoid stimulants a much as possible... Thx

[ezturbo]

It shouldnt be hell. Run the HCG 2000iu three times per week or EOD along with the aromasin. You can also run 2iu GH ED and 50mcg clen ED as well. If you havent been taking creatine start monohydrate now at 10g twice daily for two weeks then drop to 5 g twice daily...morning and post workout. Drop the volume of your training to max two working sets per bodypart 4 exercises for large 3 for small...keep the rep range 8-10 and dont go to failure just before. Reduce training to four days per week. Avoid stimulants as much as possible. Dont worry about losing you wont on this protocol. Keep eating 6 clean meals per day with a cheat or two on the weekends. Try to relax and chill as much as possible.
P

**** your the man P.

[natenator]

Avoid stimulants as much as possible. Dont worry about losing you wont on this protocol. Keep eating 6 clean meals per day with a cheat or two on the weekends. Try to relax and chill as much as possible.
P

Hi.. just wondering why he should avoid stimulants a much as possible... Thx[/QUOTE]
shoots up cortisol levels through adrenal fatigue. Last thing you want when in PCT.

[aky]

is PCT defendant on what AAS is being used, or is it standard protocol for all?

[natenator]

is PCT defendant on what AAS is being used, or is it standard protocol for all?
Generally, all.

Although a lot of old schoolers will taper down and then come off clean without ancillaries.

[ironwill]

What i do when coming off, is similar but a bit different to what Dave P has advised Praetorian, i got my pct from a great resource as well...I do a slightly longer taper, drop everything i am doing and do test only at 75 percent of what my total intake was when i decide to come off, so if doing a gram total i go to 750 mgs of test...run that for a couple few weeks, then i drop it down to 500 mgs for a couple of weeks, i then drop to 250 for a couple of weeks while adding in winny at 25mg per day...I then after a couple weeks stop all test then do winny eod for a week and shoot 500 ius eod of hcg i do this for a few weeks -4 weeks while using an aromatase inhibitor, or serm...I then add in chlomid if i feel i can handle it for 14 days 100 mgs for 7 days, and then 50 mgs for 7 days and then i add in creatine and tribulus in fairly high amounts, also high amts of glutamine like 20 grams per day...I take bllod work once i feel good and have good morning erections daily(sounds funny but true) and feel myself getting stabilized...Usually about 8 weeks after my first hcg shot...
I have consistently had good results back from blood work and dont feel to crappy whatso ever doing this style...It gives a good break for the receptors, and the mind...I take a week off the gym after my last hcg shot as well, clean my diet and stop all supplements for a few weeks prior to going back on...Great rebound, and great psycholgical benefit when you come back..

Good luck bro..

[Blitz-Test]

i just pumped in 2,000iu of HCG, im going to run a total of 15,000iu over say 4 weeks or so.. thanks for the insight.

Wow man, dont listen to so much broscience, people have permantly damaged their leydig cell because of hcg, I personally dont feel the need to go over 1000IU a week.. People think hcg is like nolva or something, you can do some permenant damage with it...

You could also think of megadosing vit C, and taking high amounts of Zinc to lower cortisol in your body...

IGF has also shown signs of helping the body recover...


personalyl for you I would say do something like this

1-25 Vitamin C 2000mg/ed
1-25 Zinc 25mg/ed
1-25 Copper 5mg/ed
1-4 hcg 500IU 2xweek (mon thurs)
5 Clomid 100mg/ed
6-12 Clomid 50mg/ed
10-25 Nolvadex 20mg/ed
10-25 Aromasin 12.5-25mg/ed

Optional
1-25 IGF 20mcg/ed (2weeks on 2 weeks off)

[ironwill]

yup 500 ius maximum eod works out to be a little over 1000ius/week...it has worked fine at that dose or even 250 ius eod.....always works great and broscience does say you can become desensitized to hcg after awhile and do permanent damage...be careful....i am not a scientist, and cant say it will or will not.

[giannos]

Allot of people just parrot what they read on other boards. 3000mg of HCG a week is NOT going to permanently damaged their leydig cell...

http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6097

Also, forget about taking Nolva and Clomid at the same time.. Save your money. Nolva is pretty much useless in PCT, as it has been shown to lower GH and IGF levels..

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/79/2/513?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&fulltext=+tamoxifen+testosterone&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

Stick with Clomid and take it at 100mg for at LEAST 2 weeks.. Finally, Aromasin should be run during the whole time your on HCG...


1-3 HCG.......... 1500IU E3D
4-7 Clomid........ 100mg ED for 2 weeks, then drop to 50mg
1-8 Aromasin..... 25mg ED

[Praetorian]

Wow man, dont listen to so much broscience, people have permantly damaged their leydig cell because of hcg, I personally dont feel the need to go over 1000IU a week.. People think hcg is like nolva or something, you can do some permenant damage with it...

You could also think of megadosing vit C, and taking high amounts of Zinc to lower cortisol in your body...

IGF has also shown signs of helping the body recover...


personalyl for you I would say do something like this

1-25 Vitamin C 2000mg/ed
1-25 Zinc 25mg/ed
1-25 Copper 5mg/ed
1-4 hcg 500IU 2xweek (mon thurs)
5 Clomid 100mg/ed
6-12 Clomid 50mg/ed
10-25 Nolvadex 20mg/ed
10-25 Aromasin 12.5-25mg/ed

Optional
1-25 IGF 20mcg/ed (2weeks on 2 weeks off)

This is complete non-sense. Have you ever read the insert in a box of Canadian Pharmaceutical Grade HCG? Please show me where people have permanently damaged their leydig cells with HCG. It is not bro-science...the information comes from the actual Pharmaceutical company as well as medical doctors. 500iu twice a week will do little for someone who has been on cycle for an extended period of time. Also it is not a good idea to run clomid for such extent. Lowering cortisol is fine but will do nothign to restart the HPTA. Taking clomid and nolvadex is redundant...clomid is much better at restarting the pituitary then nolvadex is. Aromasin should be used while endogenous test production is occuring thus preventing an environment where estrogen is dominant thereby killing any HPTA recovery.
Parroting what some say on other boards as giannos says is really counterproductive. Understanding the drug involved, knowing the reaction in the body and how it is recommended for use by its manufacturers and those who prescribe it is far superior. I have first hand knowledge (my doc is my client) who works exclusively with BB including IFBB pros and monitors their blood work. The case is most guys even running hcg at up to 1000iu EOD are not recovering and their endo test leves are in the floor. The problem is the leydig cells are so desensitized to LH that this amount does little to kickstart the testes. In a young guy say 25 HCG is probably not even necessary but anyone 30 or over who has been on a long cycle proper PCT will make or break you. FP

P

[NorthOf60]

Personally. I would use HCG the whole time on and the first couple of weeks of PCT, 250IU every 4 days. That way you keep you boys working the whole time while on and then you don't need to mega dose at the end which has been proven to do damage in some. Taking both Nolva and Clomid at the some time is better because you can take lower does of both which will give less side effects and get the same result as running one of them at a higher dose and getting worse side effects.

[JoeDiggX]

Where's Drummer on this?

[giannos]

Personally. I would use HCG the whole time on and the first couple of weeks of PCT, 250IU every 4 days.

Ideally yes.. But in this situation we are talking about someone who is coming off after 2 years straight



Taking both Nolva and Clomid at the some time is better because you can take lower does of both which will give less side effects and get the same result as running one of them at a higher dose and getting worse side effects.


Huh ???? :confused:

[canadianmuscle0803]

im doing this.. thanks to GUS

Wk 1: 150mg test on monday, 1500iu of HCG on monday/thurs, aromasin 25mg/day
Wk 2: 150mg of test on monday, 1500iu of HCG on monday/thurs, aromasin 25mg/day
Wk 3: 1000iu of HCG mon/thurs, 25mg aroma per day
Wk 4: 1000iu of HCG mon/thurs, 25mg aroma per day

Wk 5 100mg of clomid per day, 25mg of aromasin per day
wk 6 50mg of clomid per day, 25mg of aromasin per day
wk 7 50mg of clomid per day, 25mg of aromasin per day
wk 8-10 25mg of aromasin per day

[hyperlite32]

Looks good...

[natenator]

Personally. I would use HCG the whole time on and the first couple of weeks of PCT, 250IU every 4 days. That way you keep you boys working the whole time while on and then you don't need to mega dose at the end which has been proven to do damage in some. Taking both Nolva and Clomid at the some time is better because you can take lower does of both which will give less side effects and get the same result as running one of them at a higher dose and getting worse side effects.
I guess you are reading challenged in that you couldn't read the post above you?

[Praetorian]

Personally. I would use HCG the whole time on and the first couple of weeks of PCT, 250IU every 4 days. That way you keep you boys working the whole time while on and then you don't need to mega dose at the end which has been proven to do damage in some. Taking both Nolva and Clomid at the some time is better because you can take lower does of both which will give less side effects and get the same result as running one of them at a higher dose and getting worse side effects.

Using HCG a few times a week does help to keep the testes sensitive to LH and is a good idea for long cycles. However it does not negate the use of correct dosages once the cycle is completed. Please define "mega dose" as the the manufacturer of HCG in Canada quite clearly details the dosage instructions on the insert for men with hypogonadism as 4000-5000 iu three time per week for 6-8 weeks. Taking Nolva and Comid at the same time is NOT better..this is incorrect. Both Comid and Nolvadex are SERMS but act quite differently when it comes to HPTA normalization. 100mg daily of clomid will produce little to no sides and it is only used for 2-3 weeks max.
P

[Blitz-Test]

This is complete non-sense. Have you ever read the insert in a box of Canadian Pharmaceutical Grade HCG? Please show me where people have permanently damaged their leydig cells with HCG. It is not bro-science...the information comes from the actual Pharmaceutical company as well as medical doctors. 500iu twice a week will do little for someone who has been on cycle for an extended period of time. Also it is not a good idea to run clomid for such extent. Lowering cortisol is fine but will do nothign to restart the HPTA. Taking clomid and nolvadex is redundant...clomid is much better at restarting the pituitary then nolvadex is. Aromasin should be used while endogenous test production is occuring thus preventing an environment where estrogen is dominant thereby killing any HPTA recovery.
Parroting what some say on other boards as giannos says is really counterproductive. Understanding the drug involved, knowing the reaction in the body and how it is recommended for use by its manufacturers and those who prescribe it is far superior. I have first hand knowledge (my doc is my client) who works exclusively with BB including IFBB pros and monitors their blood work. The case is most guys even running hcg at up to 1000iu EOD are not recovering and their endo test leves are in the floor. The problem is the leydig cells are so desensitized to LH that this amount does little to kickstart the testes. In a young guy say 25 HCG is probably not even necessary but anyone 30 or over who has been on a long cycle proper PCT will make or break you. FP

P

Medical doctors also believe test levels of 300 are acceptable...

Can you show me the studies that show that 5000IU of hCG is 10x more effective than 500IU that you are basing you opinion on?

[Praetorian]

Medical doctors also believe test levels of 300 are acceptable...

Can you show me the studies that show that 5000IU of hCG is 10x more effective than 500IU that you are basing you opinion on?

Please read my post again...I am not saying 5000iu is ten times more effective then 500iu. I said that depending on the individual, length of cycle etc 500iu may not be sufficient and that more then 500iu does not damage the leydig cells. The post originator pointed out that he was on cycle for over two years straight thus a higher dose of HCG is strongly recommended. I have posted on here many times the study showing the results of five aas induced hypogonadal males all recovering using 2500 or more iu HCG EOD with no negative sides ie. leydig cell issues. Not to mention PPC (Pharmaceutical Partners Canada) of Richmond Hill manufacturers of HCG in Ontario recommend a dose of 4000-5000iu three times per week for 6-8 weeks for sexually mature hypogonadal males. This is not my opinion this is fact according to PPC and according to the study I have posted previously.
My opinion is that someone who has been on cycle for two years or longer will recover much better using a higher dose than 500iu and will not experience leydig cell damage in doing so.
P

[ironwill]

ahh what the hell, heres another study....


Yes there may be some studies that show Tamoxifen Blocks hcg Induced Leydig Cell Desensitization, but who gives a .. Tamoxifen also lowers igf. It also causes estro rebound too.


If hcg is used right you should not have to worry about Desensitization.

Heres study: below


Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hcg) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (lh - leutenizing hormone - ). lh - leutenizing hormone - is the hormone that stimulates the testes to produce testosterone. (1) More specifically lh - leutenizing hormone - is the primary signal sent from the pituitary to the testes, which stimulates the leydig cells within the testes to produce testosterone.

When steroids are administered, lh - leutenizing hormone - levels rapidly decline. The absence of an lh - leutenizing hormone - signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone, which causes rapid onset of testicular degeneration. The testicular degeneration begins with a reduction of leydig cell volume, and is then followed by rapid reductions in intra-testicular testosterone (ITT), peroxisomes, and Insulin-like factor 3 (INSL3) – All important bio-markers and factors for proper testicular function and testosterone production. (2-6,19) However, this degeneration can be prevented by a small maintenance dose of hcg ran throughout the cycle. Unfortunately, most steroid users have been engrained to believe that hcg should be used after a cycle, during PCT - post cycle therapy - . Upon reviewing the science and basic endocrinology you will see that a faster and more complete recovery is possible if hcg is ran during a cycle.

Firstly, we must understand the clinical history of hcg to understand its purpose and its most efficient application. Many por “steroid profiles” advocate using hcg at a dose of 2500-5000iu once or twice a week. These were the kind of dosages used in the historical (1960’s) hcg studies for hypogonadal men who had reduced testicular sensitivity due to prolonged lh - leutenizing hormone - deficiency. (21,22) A prolonged lh - leutenizing hormone - deficiency causes the testes to desensitize, requiring a higher hcg dose for ample stimulation. In men with normal lh - leutenizing hormone - levels and normal testicular sensitivity, the maximum increase of testosterone is seen from a dose of only 250iu, with minimal increases obtained from 500iu or even 5000iu. (2,11) (It appears the testes maximum secretion of testosterone is about 140% above their normal capacity.) (12-18) If you have allowed your testes to desensitize over the length of a typical steroid cycle, (8-16 weeks) then you would require a higher dose to elicit a response in an attempt to restore normal testicular size and function – but there is cost to this, and a high probability that you won’t regain full testicular function.

One term that is critical to understand is testosterone secretion capacity which is synonymous to testicular sensitivity. This is the amount of testosterone your testes can produce from any given lh - leutenizing hormone - or hcg stimulation. Therefore, if you have reduced testosterone secretion capacity (reduced testicular sensitivity), it will take more lh - leutenizing hormone - or hcg stimulation to produce the same result as if you had normal testosterone secretion capacity. If you reduce your testosterone secretion capacity too much, then no amount of lh - leutenizing hormone - or hcg stimulation will trigger normal testosterone production – and this leads to permanently reduced testosterone production.

To get an idea of how quickly you can reduce your testosterone secretion capacity from your average steroid cycle, consider this: lh - leutenizing hormone - levels are rapidly decreased by the 2nd day of steroid administration. (2,9,10) By shutting down the lh - leutenizing hormone - signal and allowing the testis to be non-functional over a 12-16 week period, leydig cell volume decreases 90%, ITT decreases 94%, INSL3 decreases 95%, while the capacity to secrete testosterone decreases as much as 98%. (2-6)

Note: visually analyzing testes size is a poor method of judging your actual testicular function, since testicular size is not directly related to the ability to secrete testosterone. (4) This is because the leydig cells, which are the primary sites of testosterone secretion, only make up about 10% of the total testicular volume. Therefore, when the testes may only appear 5-10% smaller, the testes ability to secrete testosterone upon lh - leutenizing hormone - or hcg stimulation can actually be significantly reduced to 98% of their normal production. (3-5) The point here is to not judge testosterone secretion capacity by testicular size.

The decreased testosterone secretion capacity caused by steroid use was well demonstrated in a study on power athletes who used steroids for 16 weeks, and were then administered 4500iu hcg post cycle. It was found that the steroid users were about 20 times less responsive to hcg, when compared to normal men who did not use steroids. (8) In other words, their testosterone secretion capacity was dramatically reduced because they did not receive an lh - leutenizing hormone - signal for 16 weeks. The testes essentially became desensitized and crippled. Case studies with steroid using patients show that aggressive long-term treatment with hcg at dosages as high as 10,000iu E3D for 12 weeks were unable to return full testicular size. (7) Another study with men using low dose steroids for 6 weeks showed unsuccessful return of Insulin-like factor-3 (INSL3) concentration in the testes upon 5000iu/wk of hcg treatment for 12 weeks (6) (INSL3 is an important biomarker for testosterone production potential and sperm production. 20)

These studies show that postponing hcg usage until the end of a steroid cycle increases your need for a higher dose of hcg, and decreases your odds of a full recovery. As a consequence to using a higher dose of hcg at the end of a cycle, estrogen will be increased disproportionately to testosterone, which then causes further hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - suppression (from high estrogen) while increasing the risk of gynecomastia. (11) For example, high doses of hcg have been found to raise estradiol up to 165%, while only raising testosterone 140%. (11) Higher doses of hcg are also known to reduce lh - leutenizing hormone - receptor concentration and degrade the enzymes responsible for testosterone synthesis within the testes (12,13,19 ) -- the last thing someone wants during recovery. While these negative effects of hcg can be partly mitigated by the use of a selective estrogen receptor modulator such as Tamoxifen, it will create further problems associated with using a toxic selective estrogen receptor modulator (covered in another article).

In light of the above evidence, it becomes obvious that we must take preventative measures to avoid this testicular degeneration. We must protect our testicular sensitivity. Besides, with hcg being so readily available, and such a painless shot, it makes you wonder why anyone wouldn’t use it on cycle.

Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu hcg administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hcg. (2) It is important that low-dose hcg is started before testicular sensitivity is reduced, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use. Also, it’s important to discontinue the hcg before you start PCT - post cycle therapy - so your leydig cells are given a chance to re-sensitize to your body’s own lh - leutenizing hormone - production. (To help further enhance testicular sensitivity, the dietary supplement Toco-8 may be used)

A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a twice a week shot of 200iu hcg, or possibly a once a week shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hcg to mimic the body’s natural lh - leutenizing hormone - release and minimize estrogen conversion. If you are starting hcg late in the cycle, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hcg ‘kick starting’ dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of lh - leutenizing hormone - absence, since the testes will be desensitized, thus requiring a higher dose. (ie. 40iu x 60 days = 2400iu hcg dose)

Note: If following the on cycle hcg protocol, hcg should NOT be used for PCT - post cycle therapy - .

Recap –

For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 100iu hcg ED starting 7 days after your first anabolic steroids dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hcg two weeks before the anabolic steroids clear the system. For example, you would drop hcg about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hcg about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels, while initiating lh - leutenizing hormone - and FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - production from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Remember, recovery doesn’t begin until you are off hcg since your body will not release its own lh - leutenizing hormone - until the hcg has cleared the system.

In conclusion, we have learned that utilizing hcg during a steroid cycle will significantly prevent testicular degeneration. This helps create a seamless transition from “on cycle” to “off cycle” thus avoiding the post cycle crash.

[Blitz-Test]

Please read my post again...I am not saying 5000iu is ten times more effective then 500iu. I said that depending on the individual, length of cycle etc 500iu may not be sufficient and that more then 500iu does not damage the leydig cells. The post originator pointed out that he was on cycle for over two years straight thus a higher dose of HCG is strongly recommended. I have posted on here many times the study showing the results of five aas induced hypogonadal males all recovering using 2500 or more iu HCG EOD with no negative sides ie. leydig cell issues. Not to mention PPC (Pharmaceutical Partners Canada) of Richmond Hill manufacturers of HCG in Ontario recommend a dose of 4000-5000iu three times per week for 6-8 weeks for sexually mature hypogonadal males. This is not my opinion this is fact according to PPC and according to the study I have posted previously.
My opinion is that someone who has been on cycle for two years or longer will recover much better using a higher dose than 500iu and will not experience leydig cell damage in doing so.
P

Lol if I was producing a drug I would suggest using a higher amount than a conservative amount that would work aswell...

The pharm industry is all about making money, why do you think Pfizer stopped making Deca and now produces anavar for AIDS patients, even though it costs 5x as much?

Ill agree to disagree... however I would never quote a pharm company..

[natenator]

Lol if I was producing a drug I would suggest using a higher amount than a conservative amount that would work aswell...

The pharm industry is all about making money, why do you think Pfizer stopped making Deca and now produces anavar for AIDS patients, even though it costs 5x as much?

Ill agree to disagree... however I would never quote a pharm company..
I guess you also failed to read (or comprehend) this part where he says: "I have posted on here many times the study showing the results of five aas induced hypogonadal males all recovering using 2500 or more iu HCG EOD with no negative sides ie. leydig cell issues."