Gyno prone + SERM / AI = Less gains

[#8]

If an AAS user cannot run highly androgenic drugs without the use of a serm or AI are they destined for less gains in stregth and size due to less water retention related to less floating estrogen? Does this really matter in the long term at all?

[waderow]

yes, gains suffer if running heavy AI. Not so much if running SERM though I believe.

Hopefully someone cane chime in with a more scientific answer, but estrogen is required to grow muscles too

[Gettin'r'round]

I'd like to see the studies showing estrogen is a necessity. It's an evil from what I've been led to believe. Water retention, fat gain, mood swings, acne (AI's have been shown to reduce acne), reducing endogenous test production, cancer... anymore?

[MoooBaby]

Run an AI and take more shit if your worried about it. Hows that for a technical answer? :P

[Descimus]

yup clarification on this would be appreciated, the other day some guy was saying to me that running nolva with a cycles would ruin it and that instead of nolva femara should be used. I tought that femara was cutting way more estrogen then nolvadex so i have trouble understanding the logic behind it.

[#8]

^^ya that makes no sense at all. i wish we had scientific data to back this up and not just anecdotal word of mouth.... :(

[Boulderer77]

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[Praetorian]

Nolva is a SERM, Femara, Arimidex,and Aromasn are AI's. Dropping estrogen too low will affect gains on cycle just like it will kill your sex drive...this is quite well known. Less water retention can reduce the amount of weight being used ie. less leverage and that indirectly can have an effect of the amount of size gained. Its doubtful one could achieve the same level of muscularity using weaker compounds as one woudl using test , tren etc. The muscle building effects of certain aas are much more pronounced than others. If gyno is an ongoing issue look into getting it removed.
P

[ManInTheBox]

Yeah, while technically it slows your gains down, I don't see how this is in any way measureable. I still feel like a beast even while running 1mg adex eod and I stil llift like one to boot. I can't imagine that just because I'm low on estrogen means I'm slashing my gains significantly. Hell, if it were true, while not running an AI I should be able to squat 800lbs!

Either way, I'd rather have slower gains than have a bloated body with bitch-tits.

My 2c.

[hyperlite32]

Run an AI and take more shit if your worried about it. Hows that for a technical answer? :P

LOL!