SUST users...

[RagingRandy]

What is your pinning routine? I have only used Test E before e3d. I have read elsewhere that it should be pinned eod to take advantage of the Prop. Others say that large doses less frequent is best. What have you found as most effective? I will be running about 600mg\wk.

[St]

Most take it eod ,but i like once a week shots with sus,cyp,or test e.

[Big D]

EOD, is the best way tot go with sust.

I tried doing sust E3D and levels would fluctuate way to much.

[faller]

You're going to get a ton of different opinion's on this one... Have a read here, i've used this schedual and loved it!!

By ouchThatHurts

Sustanon. Every BBer in the world knows the name. Every “noob” has to try it. But is it a good choice for BBers? Not really. Unless you know what you’re doing and even then you would likely have better and more stable results with less expensive and easier to maintain compounds. Let’s take a look at Sustanon.

Sustanon was originally designed and formulated by Organon as a timed-release compound used for androgen replacement for hypogonadic males, HRT, and all the other uses where androgens are indicated. The difference being that Sustanon (sustained release) was designed to be administered once per month. By combining multiple esters in such a way, starting with shorter chain molecules (propionate) and progressing to longer ones (decanoate), you can design a formula that takes effect almost immediately and releases it’s payload (testosterone) over a length of time.

So let’s look at the esters in Sustanon. Would anyone consider stacking two forms of esterified test in a single cycle? For example, would you combine propionate and enanthate? If so, how would you do it? Would you take 30mg or propionate every other day or twice a week along with 100mg of enanthate at the same time? Of course not! Well not only are you doing that with sust, but with FOUR esters, not just two. Testosterone is testosterone whether your body cleaves it from a short molecule or a long molecule. Many people still think that these different esters of the same organic compound are somehow different or “synergistic”. That’s almost like saying the caffeine in coffee is different than the caffeine in Pepsi. And if you stack coffee and Pepsi you’ll have a more pronounced effect or synergistic effect. There IS a difference but in only one regard and that is that you will get MORE raw test mg/mg with shorter esters than longer ones. The reason for this is simple. The larger the molecule, the more carbons are added which increases the total weight of the molecule. In short, more of the molecule’s weight is taken up by carbon and not testosterone. The additional carbon and occasionally oxygen atoms also increase the compound’s solubility and half-life but that is beyond this article. So what esters are we dealing with in Sustanon?

propionate 30mg (2 days)
phenylpropionate 30mg (4 days)
isocaproate 60mg (9 days)
decanoate 100mg (15 days)

In parenthesis, you see their approximate half lives. It is no coincidence that each ester is roughly twice the quantity of the one before it nor is it coincidental that each half life is approx. double the length of the one before it. Still beyond this article. Moving on…

I decided to experiment with Sustanon after receiving a fairly large quantity. Even though I had plenty, I was still thinking greedily and wanted to get the most out of my testosterone dollar. I started with the twice-a-week approach. A month later, I had no gains, a bad flu, and had used almost 20 amps (1ml) at 250mg/ml. I wanted to know what had gone wrong. It didn’t take long to figure out. During the first week, all that had taken effect was the prop and phenylprop. And 120mg total (out of 500mg) is all that my system saw. That’s about enough to suppress the axis but that’s it. Throw two amps in the trash. The second week, probably not much different and had used 4 amps (1000mg). By the third week I had the flu. Not exactly a surprise with all the HPTA suppression and unstable test levels. Most people have heard of the “sust flu”? Well, there you go. I was beginning to plan a PCT regimen when it dawned on me… I’m not getting enough STABLE, high levels of testosterone! So not long after that I moved everything to the all to common every-other-day (EOD) approach. Don’t get me wrong, I started noticing results but then again, who wouldn’t? This is a shotgun approach! If you had propionate and enanthate would you just keep dosing until something worked? No. You wouldn’t. The idea there is to just keep shooting the stuff and “one of them esters” will eventually work. Personally, I don’t like this approach. I think we can do much better. After all, don’t we owe it to Organon to abuse their product properly? SO… how well did it work? I’d have 3 good days, followed by 3 bad days. I was emotional. I wanted to sleep all the time. I had a runny nose. Two different blood tests during this time proved that I had almost twice the free test in my system as the blood test a week later. By this point, my great buy was turning into a great waste. I took 2 months off, did a fairly aggressive PCT and started planning my next cycle.

Here is where it seemed to all come together. I decided to try taking Sustanon as Organon intended, but in BBer amounts. This meant using it less frequently but using larger doses. Using it as a SUSTained-release product. Again, being greedy like I am, I didn’t want to waste the propionate in the Sust so I scheduled the entire cycle dosage amounts based on what I would take if I was doing a propionate-only cycle. This meant 4 amps or 1000mgs. That gave me a starting dose of 120mg propionate (30mg x 4) and instead of taking the next dose of propionate, I knew I could just relax knowing that as the propionate fell off, the phenylpropionate would begin and as the phenylpropionate fell off, the isocaproate would begin, etc, etc. This worked phenomenal and I began the cycle figuring on every two weeks (one decanoate half life). In reality, I played with this until I found a sweet spot of 8 days (approx. half of a half life). This gave me testosterone levels that remained stable throughout the cycle and at levels that were good for the results I wanted. You may need to adjust this time period to suit your physiology.

Conclusion: If I were to ever use Sustanon in a cycle again, which I doubt since there are less expensive, more stable compounds available, I would use it as intended in BBer amounts. I would do 1000-1500mg once every 8 days. This would allow for it to take immediate effect and with a few additional amps of propionate, you could use it with predictable stability right up until a few days before starting PCT. This dosing regimen, in my opinion, combined with equipoise or nandrolone would be a very productive cycle. Given the choice, I would still stick with enanthate. The injections are usually painless, the stability is high, the half life is fairly long. If you don’t mind EOD injects then prop or phenylprop would also be better choices than Sustanon in my opinion. Especially phenylprop. You would likely have to compound this yourself though as I haven’t seen this ester alone very often except in the case of nandrolone phenylprop (fast-acting deca).

[RagingRandy]

^^^^ 1000-1500mg of sust plus prop. So the guy is running up to 2g of test\week. That is a little much, for me at least.

[gustavo77]

You're going to get a ton of different opinion's on this one... Have a read here, i've used this schedual and loved it!!

By ouchThatHurts

Sustanon. Every BBer in the world knows the name. Every “noob” has to try it. But is it a good choice for BBers? Not really. Unless you know what you’re doing and even then you would likely have better and more stable results with less expensive and easier to maintain compounds. Let’s take a look at Sustanon.

Sustanon was originally designed and formulated by Organon as a timed-release compound used for androgen replacement for hypogonadic males, HRT, and all the other uses where androgens are indicated. The difference being that Sustanon (sustained release) was designed to be administered once per month. By combining multiple esters in such a way, starting with shorter chain molecules (propionate) and progressing to longer ones (decanoate), you can design a formula that takes effect almost immediately and releases it’s payload (testosterone) over a length of time.

So let’s look at the esters in Sustanon. Would anyone consider stacking two forms of esterified test in a single cycle? For example, would you combine propionate and enanthate? If so, how would you do it? Would you take 30mg or propionate every other day or twice a week along with 100mg of enanthate at the same time? Of course not! Well not only are you doing that with sust, but with FOUR esters, not just two. Testosterone is testosterone whether your body cleaves it from a short molecule or a long molecule. Many people still think that these different esters of the same organic compound are somehow different or “synergistic”. That’s almost like saying the caffeine in coffee is different than the caffeine in Pepsi. And if you stack coffee and Pepsi you’ll have a more pronounced effect or synergistic effect. There IS a difference but in only one regard and that is that you will get MORE raw test mg/mg with shorter esters than longer ones. The reason for this is simple. The larger the molecule, the more carbons are added which increases the total weight of the molecule. In short, more of the molecule’s weight is taken up by carbon and not testosterone. The additional carbon and occasionally oxygen atoms also increase the compound’s solubility and half-life but that is beyond this article. So what esters are we dealing with in Sustanon?

propionate 30mg (2 days)
phenylpropionate 30mg (4 days)
isocaproate 60mg (9 days)
decanoate 100mg (15 days)

In parenthesis, you see their approximate half lives. It is no coincidence that each ester is roughly twice the quantity of the one before it nor is it coincidental that each half life is approx. double the length of the one before it. Still beyond this article. Moving on…

I decided to experiment with Sustanon after receiving a fairly large quantity. Even though I had plenty, I was still thinking greedily and wanted to get the most out of my testosterone dollar. I started with the twice-a-week approach. A month later, I had no gains, a bad flu, and had used almost 20 amps (1ml) at 250mg/ml. I wanted to know what had gone wrong. It didn’t take long to figure out. During the first week, all that had taken effect was the prop and phenylprop. And 120mg total (out of 500mg) is all that my system saw. That’s about enough to suppress the axis but that’s it. Throw two amps in the trash. The second week, probably not much different and had used 4 amps (1000mg). By the third week I had the flu. Not exactly a surprise with all the HPTA suppression and unstable test levels. Most people have heard of the “sust flu”? Well, there you go. I was beginning to plan a PCT regimen when it dawned on me… I’m not getting enough STABLE, high levels of testosterone! So not long after that I moved everything to the all to common every-other-day (EOD) approach. Don’t get me wrong, I started noticing results but then again, who wouldn’t? This is a shotgun approach! If you had propionate and enanthate would you just keep dosing until something worked? No. You wouldn’t. The idea there is to just keep shooting the stuff and “one of them esters” will eventually work. Personally, I don’t like this approach. I think we can do much better. After all, don’t we owe it to Organon to abuse their product properly? SO… how well did it work? I’d have 3 good days, followed by 3 bad days. I was emotional. I wanted to sleep all the time. I had a runny nose. Two different blood tests during this time proved that I had almost twice the free test in my system as the blood test a week later. By this point, my great buy was turning into a great waste. I took 2 months off, did a fairly aggressive PCT and started planning my next cycle.

Here is where it seemed to all come together. I decided to try taking Sustanon as Organon intended, but in BBer amounts. This meant using it less frequently but using larger doses. Using it as a SUSTained-release product. Again, being greedy like I am, I didn’t want to waste the propionate in the Sust so I scheduled the entire cycle dosage amounts based on what I would take if I was doing a propionate-only cycle. This meant 4 amps or 1000mgs. That gave me a starting dose of 120mg propionate (30mg x 4) and instead of taking the next dose of propionate, I knew I could just relax knowing that as the propionate fell off, the phenylpropionate would begin and as the phenylpropionate fell off, the isocaproate would begin, etc, etc. This worked phenomenal and I began the cycle figuring on every two weeks (one decanoate half life). In reality, I played with this until I found a sweet spot of 8 days (approx. half of a half life). This gave me testosterone levels that remained stable throughout the cycle and at levels that were good for the results I wanted. You may need to adjust this time period to suit your physiology.

Conclusion: If I were to ever use Sustanon in a cycle again, which I doubt since there are less expensive, more stable compounds available, I would use it as intended in BBer amounts. I would do 1000-1500mg once every 8 days. This would allow for it to take immediate effect and with a few additional amps of propionate, you could use it with predictable stability right up until a few days before starting PCT. This dosing regimen, in my opinion, combined with equipoise or nandrolone would be a very productive cycle. Given the choice, I would still stick with enanthate. The injections are usually painless, the stability is high, the half life is fairly long. If you don’t mind EOD injects then prop or phenylprop would also be better choices than Sustanon in my opinion. Especially phenylprop. You would likely have to compound this yourself though as I haven’t seen this ester alone very often except in the case of nandrolone phenylprop (fast-acting deca).

This is a very interesting read....not sure i have the balls to inject that much test at once though..lol..

Sust eod has worked great for me every time i have ran it....

[theboss]

i did it EOD a few times....

[AnabolicState]

I only ever used sust once, and I injected only once per week. Blood levels were very unstable and I could feel it. I would recommend EOD, or at least E3D. I prefer cyp or enan twice a week.

[faller]

^^^^ 1000-1500mg of sust plus prop. So the guy is running up to 2g of test\week. That is a little much, for me at least.

Lol, i did 4g. :shock............... Ya it was too much.... The volume is whatever you want it to be, the gist of the experiment is that eod pins are not writen in stone. "I played with this until I found a sweet spot of 8 days (approx. half of a half life). " My "sweet spot" was 10 days.

[IronRobi]

I did every Wednesday and Sunday and my levels were very stable throughout. But every person is different.

[RagingRandy]

Lol, i did 4g.

Now that is just crazy talk. I think my nuts would immediately turn to peas at that dose.

[Born2Juice4Ever]

Some very good stuff on here, and as I have said in the past: Articles are written by people like you and me, and are subjective to personal expriences and opinions :)
This was a good read nontheless fellas :)

I have used sustenons of all kinds in the past successfuly also. I will say that once the full life of the long acting compounds start to do their magic, the short acting prop really does not matter much any longer. At first yes, certainly time that kicking time appropiately in order to allow the blood levels consistencies ;)

Most I have ever done was 3k mgs weekly and it did include avalanches of sustenons (9 month cycle that took me from 202 to 247 raw powa!!!


B2J

[RagingRandy]

I only ever used sust once, and I injected only once per week. Blood levels were very unstable and I could feel it. I would recommend EOD, or at least E3D. I prefer cyp or enan twice a week.

I usually run Test E but my source could only come up with Sust at the time. I wanted to give it a try anyway to see how it compared. So let the experiment begin. I will run it eod.

[Old-Dog]

I am running Russian Blister pack Sus250.

I have run the other brands as well.

What I have done, in the past;

500mg on Wednesday- 250mg on Sat. =750mg per week.

I stack it with 300mg Wed- 300mg Sat.= 600mg per week.

I have never noticed unstable levels in the past, however, to each is own.

I found that 500mg per week just wasn't enough but 750 was perfect. I have done up to a 1000mg per week but it just gave me a fat face.

I also use winny 50mg EOD while using sus, to keep my shape and added hardness as well as sneaking some of it's anti-ester ability.

Once every 8 days seems a lil long between shots. The basic fundamental approach of 2 shots per week is usually a solid method which allow's the user to stack another product into the mix easier, plus, it works similar to cyp/enth.

I am slightly hesitant about proceeding with my cycle after this info but, twice a week always seems to be effective for most BB I know.

Good article though.

[purelife]

eod for me its perfect

i love sust :}

[Old-Dog]

I called all my Buddies.

The verdict.

EOD.

250mg.

So be it.

Does anyone know if I did week 1 Wed-Sat will affect me if I switch to week 2 EOD?

[RagingRandy]

^^^^ 250mg eod....I was planning on 150-200 eod. I usually run test e @ 250 e3d.

[ezturbo]

1500mg of sust at 250mg/ml. Yikes if the usual prop or enth crippled you 2 * 3cc shots would be handicapping. Wouldn't pinning eod 2cc probably would be more manageable, and maybe even better blood levels. Very interesting read bro, nicely done.

[grifter]

I have tried once/week, and every 3rd day (mon + fri) and I think way back eod (3amps/week)
I grew off each routine and never get the flu.
Best cycle ever was sust and parabolan.

[Monka]

ive tryed eod, 2x a week/ once a week, and really didnt notice much, but who knows, i notice more of the extreme changes, subtle not so much.. but with sust made no diffrent to me, but then again was ranging from 500g to 2g weekly.. depending on my point in cycle.

[Big D]

ive tryed eod, 2x a week/ once a week, and really didnt notice much, but who knows, i notice more of the extreme changes, subtle not so much.. but with sust made no diffrent to me, but then again was ranging from 500g to 2g weekly.. depending on my point in cycle.


500g thats alot of test ;)

[RagingRandy]

500g thats alot of test ;)

You would need a turkey baster to do those shots.

[Born2Juice4Ever]

Maybe he is wanting to become pro and needs such high amounts hu ? :D ;)