Just finished planning

[Danger]

Im looking at doing an 8 week Test/D-bol cycle and I am looking for opinions.
I've done alot of reading uptil now and this will be my first time using AAS. My training/eating are both in order and im excited to get started.

I think I have everything down but Im a little confused about how often to inject the Test i've seen every 3 days alot but how do you end up with 500ml in a week like that? i've often seen A-dex at lower doses than what I have listed but dont really understand why you would want less. I also want to use more Test for my first injection to get levels up quicker is this common practice?

W1 - 750ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(ED) + 30mg D-Bol (ED)
W2 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(ED) + 30mg D-Bol (ED)
W3 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(ED) + 30mg D-Bol (ED)
W4 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(ED) + 30mg D-Bol (ED)
W5 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(ED)
W6 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(ED)
W7 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(ED)
W8 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(ED)


PCT
W11- 0.5mg A-dex(ED) + 40mg Nolva (ED)
w12- 0.5mg A-dex(ED) + 40mg Nolva (ED)
w13- 0.5mg A-dex(ED) + 20mg Nolva (ED)
w14- 0.5mg A-dex(ED) + 20mg Nolva (ED)

[Dk]

Run the Test E for a minimum of 10 weeks. preferably 12

start the dbol at the start of week 3 instead of day 1

hit 0.5mg Adex EOD not ED.

Dont use the adex in pct, just the nolva.

injections every monday/thursday, 250mg each injection, i wouldnt even bother with the 750mg frontload, just run 500 EW
those are all just my opinions, none are facts.

[buildinthaskinnys]

It looks pretty good to me, but I would run hcg during and post cycle also as I didnt have much luck using nolva. most people I have talked with that know what they are doing will agree that hcg is invaluable. I never used it and I shut down pretty good, although I was also using deca along with test.

[Dk]

It looks pretty good to me, but I would run hcg during and post cycle also as I didnt have much luck using nolva. most people I have talked with that know what they are doing will agree that hcg is invaluable. I never used it and I shut down pretty good, although I was also using deca along with test.

chances are the deca is what shut you down hard because its a 19-nor like tren and drol.

Test alone he could probably get away with a first cycle without the hCG.

Dont get me wrong, hcg will be nothing but a positive choice, but whether he needs it or not on a test E cycle only is debatable

i still say run the test for longer though, at 8 weeks your only gonna get a few weeks of peaked levels, you arent gonna wanna stop at week 8.

go 12 and you wont regret it.

[Iwant2Grow]

Run the Test E for a minimum of 10 weeks. preferably 12

start the dbol at the start of week 3 instead of day 1

hit 0.5mg Adex EOD not ED.

Dont use the adex in pct, just the nolva.

injections every monday/thursday, 250mg each injection, i wouldnt even bother with the 750mg frontload, just run 500 EW
those are all just my opinions, none are facts.

^^ good info . IMO you should skip the dbol and go 12 weeks test e

here a good page on why

bodybuildingpro.com/steroids1.html

and here some good info on test e

bodybuildingpro.com/enanthate.html

[Houstonbc]

8 weeks is not long enough unless you are using prop

[Dk]

all i can find on that page is dont do Dbol only cycles, nothing about dbol and test

Test and dbol is a pretty decent first cycle.

just steer away from the overhyped kickstart and use it when it will work best, when your test is kicking in.

[Iwant2Grow]

all i can find on that page is dont do Dbol only cycles, nothing about dbol and test

Test and dbol is a pretty decent first cycle.

just steer away from the overhyped kickstart and use it when it will work best, when your test is kicking in.

fyi
quoted form here ... bodybuildingpro.com/steroids1.html


The main reason a testosterone only cycle is recommended for the first time users is because it is the building block of all future cycles - if it isn't - it should be! By using testosterone initially you will get an idea of how your body will react to it. You will need to know if you are prone to gyno, how much fluid you will retain and how much your blood pressure will raise with the use of anabolic steroids as part of your training and nutrition program. These are very important things to be aware of.

Think about it like this - you're doing a stack of testosterone enanthate and dianabol - you feel the signs and symptoms of gyno coming along. So you fix the problem by taking by taking 20-30 mg of Nolvadex or 100 mg of Clomid (which you intelligently kept on hand) daily until the problem subsides and a few days after just to be safe. So the next time you cycle - you use only testosterone enanthate to avoid the aromotization problems brought upon by the addition of the dianabol tabs the first time out. But guess what? It wasn't the test that was aromatizing after all - it was the dianabol. Now with testosterone only, you are still getting the signs and symptoms of gyno and must once again control the substance with use of an anti estrogen. Had you known you were gyno prone with the testosterone you could have better planned this second cycle and worked out a stack to your advantage and possibly even eliminated or greatly reduced the risks of re-ocurring gyno. If you start cycling with a stack, you won't have any way of knowing which steroids are causing which side effect



....honestly Dk you probably are right but i would prefer to know how i respond to everything ...just my 2 cents

[Dk]

fyi
quoted form here ... bodybuildingpro.com/steroids1.html


The main reason a testosterone only cycle is recommended for the first time users is because it is the building block of all future cycles - if it isn't - it should be! By using testosterone initially you will get an idea of how your body will react to it. You will need to know if you are prone to gyno, how much fluid you will retain and how much your blood pressure will raise with the use of anabolic steroids as part of your training and nutrition program. These are very important things to be aware of.

Think about it like this - you're doing a stack of testosterone enanthate and dianabol - you feel the signs and symptoms of gyno coming along. So you fix the problem by taking by taking 20-30 mg of Nolvadex or 100 mg of Clomid (which you intelligently kept on hand) daily until the problem subsides and a few days after just to be safe. So the next time you cycle - you use only testosterone enanthate to avoid the aromotization problems brought upon by the addition of the dianabol tabs the first time out. But guess what? It wasn't the test that was aromatizing after all - it was the dianabol. Now with testosterone only, you are still getting the signs and symptoms of gyno and must once again control the substance with use of an anti estrogen. Had you known you were gyno prone with the testosterone you could have better planned this second cycle and worked out a stack to your advantage and possibly even eliminated or greatly reduced the risks of re-ocurring gyno. If you start cycling with a stack, you won't have any way of knowing which steroids are causing which side effect

musta missed that on there.

Either way makes sense, i still think dbol is fine for a first cycle, but it def makes sense.

Dbol clears your system in like a day anyway, once you go off youll have nothing but straight test for like 6 weeks to evaluate sides.

the dbol wont be toooo harmful if he decides to go with it. but im not exactly a patient person, which is a bad habit to have with this lifestyle.

If he has the willpower to drop the dbol and go with test only, by far it wouldnt be a bad choice

[Danger]

Hcg would be nice but I don't have access to any right now so I'm stuck with the adex and nolva for this cycle.

If I extend the cycle to 12 weeks should I consider extending the PCT to 6 weeks? also why no adex, just because the nolva reduces its effectiveness?

Why start d-bol at week 3, I wanted to use it as a kick start.

[Danger]

Also i've already had Gyno removed; I developed it during puberty, no fat deposits just gland enlargement. Actully has alot to do with why I started working out, sorta ironic now lol.

[Dk]

Hcg would be nice but I don't have access to any right now so I'm stuck with the adex and nolva for this cycle.

If I extend the cycle to 12 weeks should I consider extending the PCT to 6 weeks? also why no adex, just because the nolva reduces its effectiveness?

Why start d-bol at week 3, I wanted to use it as a kick start.

i did 6 weeks pct, doesnt hurt, if you have the nolva you might as well.

Run adex up until first day of nolva, then the nolva will be good enough for estrogen surpressant by itself with pct.

Generally its just a rule of thumb most go by, AI's on cycle, Serms off cycle(PCT)

Test E wont hit you for a few weeks, if you start dbol from day 1 it has a chance of shutting you down(loss of libido, just basic shut down sides)before the test E will get in.

If you start the dbol once the test is kicking in, youll be using it to a better advantage.

common sense says Dbol + Elevated test levels will give better gains then dbol + shutdown test levels.

If you wanna kickstart run prop for the first couple weeks.

[buildinthaskinnys]

Well, I ran testosterone two weeks after the nandrolone to combat the suppressiveness (SPELLING?) of that substance and that didn't help, if I was going to do it again i would run hcg, but then again thats not available.

[buildinthaskinnys]

wow you guys like to make things complicated, well if you are going to run propionate to kickstart the cycle and dbol though the middle then why not do all of that and then start using prop at the end of the cycle to control your test levels when coming off to allow for the start of a more accurate post cycle regiment?

heres some of the best pct info I have found, passed on to me and now unto you my friend...

anabolicfitness.net/library/recovery.htm

[Dk]

[QUOTE=buildinthaskinnys;150074]wow you guys like to make things complicated, well if you are going to run propionate to kickstart the cycle and dbol though the middle then why not do all of that and then start using prop at the end of the cycle to control your test levels when coming off to allow for the start of a more accurate post cycle regiment?

heres some of the best pct info I have found, passed on to me and now unto you my friend...

anabolicfitness.net/library/recovery.htm

i meant drop the dbol completely and use prop as a kickstart, because he gave the impression he wanted a kickstart before the enth kicked in.

[Danger]

Ok, useing D-bol later does make some sense. Why dose the adex eod instead of 0.25 ed, whats the thinking?

Im really not interested in using anything other than what I listed in my first post, I was mainly considering 8 weeks because a shorter duration seems safer but at the same time I really want to put my first cycle to good use.

[Dk]

Ok, useing D-bol later does make some sense. Why dose the adex eod instead of 0.25 ed, whats the thinking?

Im really not interested in using anything other than what I listed in my first post, I was mainly considering 8 weeks because a shorter duration seems safer but at the same time I really want to put my first cycle to good use.

0.25ed is fine, along with 0.5 eod.

0.5 ED is a little much though unless you really need it, which is what you said you were doing in the first post.

as far as safety, 12 weeks isnt gonna harm any more then 8, giver 12. if you dont decide to now, you will when your at the end of week 8 and your gear is just peaked:D

[Iwant2Grow]

Hcg would be nice but I don't have access to any right now so I'm stuck with the adex and nolva for this cycle.

If I extend the cycle to 12 weeks should I consider extending the PCT to 6 weeks? also why no adex, just because the nolva reduces its effectiveness?

Why start d-bol at week 3, I wanted to use it as a kick start.


adex on cycle because...

For the steroid using male athlete, Arimidex shows great potential. Up to this point, drugs like Nolvadex and Proviron have been our weapons against excess estrogen. These drugs, especially in combination, do prove quite effective. But Arimidex appears able to do the job much more efficiently, and with less hassle. A single tablet daily (1 mg), the same dose use clinically, seems to be all one needs for an exceptional effect (some even report excellent results with only 0.25 mg daily). When used with strong, readily aromatizing androgens such as Dianabol or testosterone, gynecomastia and water retention can be effectively blocked. In combination with Propecia (finasteride), we have a great advance. With the one drug halting estrogen conversion and the other blocking 5-alpha reduction , related side effects can be effectively minimized. Here the strong androgen testosterone could theoretically provide incredible muscular growth, while at the same time being as tolerable as nandrolone. Additionally the quality of the muscle should be greater, the athlete appearing harder and much more defined without holding excess water.

[buildinthaskinnys]

Every one argues about test only first cycles and this and that, but let me argue this.

The first cycle is the most productive if executed correctly, as your androgen receptors are "virgins" so to speak, and you have the most potential for growth if all of the criteria are met.

theres nothing wrong with starting off with dbol lots of people do it, its in and out of your system within 4 days or less so you will be able to determine if it is causing any sides, but at the doses you are running along with your ancillarys you are taking I highly doubt you will see much of anything besides good gains in size and strength slowly building though out the cycle.

whatever you decide to do goodluck and make sure you eat like a horse and train like a mutherF#%er, and try not to overtrain as it will be tempting while you are on thee old flintstones vitamins.

[Danger]

as far as safety, 12 weeks isnt gonna harm any more then 8, giver 12. if you dont decide to now, you will when your at the end of week 8 and your gear is just peaked:D

I totally get what your saying, the only problem is extending the cycle will having me waiting a little longer to start, which sucks but i'm thinking its worthwhile.

Here is a revised cycle:
W1 - 750ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD)
W2 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD)
W3 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD) + 30mg D-Bol (3xED)
W4 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD) + 30mg D-Bol (3xED)
W5 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD) + 30mg D-Bol (3xED)
W6 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD) + 30mg D-Bol (3xED)
W7 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD)
W8 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD)
W9 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD)
W10- 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD)
W11- 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD)
W12- 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD)

PCT
W15- 40mg Nolva (ED)
w16- 40mg Nolva (ED)
w17- 20mg Nolva (ED)
w18- 20mg Nolva (ED)
w19- 20mg Nolva (ED)
w20- 20mg Nolva (ED)

[tex]

a-dex kills your cholesterol...plus running an oral....askin for trouble with you lipids........skip the a-dex all together or use it only if you need to....i dont see a real need for it.......last cycle i did 560prop 350npp and i pulsed dbols on some workouts @ 20 mg...and i was pinning test no ester on occasion and i had no probs cept my clothes were gettin tight........i think ppl overuse anti-e's.......imo you dont need one below 1g a week..........and with nadrolone you should run test 3 weeks after before starting pct....id guess that would be the root of the prob with your deleayed recovery

[Dk]

I totally get what your saying, the only problem is extending the cycle will having me waiting a little longer to start, which sucks but i'm thinking its worthwhile.

Here is a revised cycle:
W1 - 750ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD)
W2 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD)
W3 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD) + 30mg D-Bol (3xED)
W4 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD) + 30mg D-Bol (3xED)
W5 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD) + 30mg D-Bol (3xED)
W6 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD) + 30mg D-Bol (3xED)
W7 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD)
W8 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD)
W9 - 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD)
W10- 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD)
W11- 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD)
W12- 500ml Test E + 0.5mg A-dex(EoD)

PCT
W15- 40mg Nolva (ED)
w16- 40mg Nolva (ED)
w17- 20mg Nolva (ED)
w18- 20mg Nolva (ED)
w19- 20mg Nolva (ED)
w20- 20mg Nolva (ED)

looks good. but whats that 3xED mean, do you mean your splitting them into 10mgx3 or do you mean 30mgx3,? i hope its the 10mgx3 haha

[Dk]

a-dex kills your cholesterol...plus running an oral....askin for trouble with you lipids........skip the a-dex all together or use it only if you need to....i dont see a real need for it.......last cycle i did 560prop 350npp and i pulsed dbols on some workouts @ 20 mg...and i was pinning test no ester on occasion and i had no probs cept my clothes were gettin tight........i think ppl overuse anti-e's.......imo you dont need one below 1g a week..........and with nadrolone you should run test 3 weeks after before starting pct....id guess that would be the root of the prob with your deleayed recovery

he has already had gyno surgery and issues in the past.

probably wouldnt hurt to use the AI.

if you decide not to though, if any nip sensitivity pops up, hop on asap

[Kronis]

1-12 Test 500mg/week
2-7 Dbol 30mg/day
AI if needed.

simple

[buildinthaskinnys]

and with nadrolone you should run test 3 weeks after before starting pct....id guess that would be the root of the prob with your deleayed recovery

Yeh I agree with you but I didnt have a choice as I was coming home from mexico. my last shot was 2 hours before I got on the plane. lol.

[Danger]

looks good. but whats that 3xED mean, do you mean your splitting them into 10mgx3 or do you mean 30mgx3,? i hope its the 10mgx3 haha

Yeah 10mgx3 I just copied and pasted without noticing should have deleted that part. The reason for the a-dex is the previous gyno I dont really think it can come back now since all the gland tissue was removed but I dont really want to find out.

[tex]

tis my understanding that once the gland tissue has been removed that it is no longer an issue.......if you are that worried about it use nolvadex......a-dex is gonna hurt your gains.......

[Danger]

Yeah all gland tissue was removed which is why I thought using the a-dex all through the cycle would be a good idea. I wont be able to feel anything in my nipples if my E is getting out of control and I don't really want to wait for 'worse' side effects to show up before acting if that makes any sense. I will have a little extra nolva around in case anything pops up.

[Chaps]

I agree drop the d-bol and even i wouldn't run a-dex i'd keep nolvadex on hand estrogen is important for glycogen replenishment and igf-1 conversion in the liver. I think you'd get more out of 250-340mg test without an ai just mho.

[ironwill]

im going to post my 2 ccs...I really dont understand the logic here....The best way to utilize aas is, use a bit, when gains stop, up it a bit more, gains stop up it more...Dont start at 750 mgs per week...do 250 mgs per week and go for a number of weeks, you are a virgin, my first cycle was 250 mgs for 14 weeks, i put on 25lbs of great gains, some water, not much...I should have upped it a bit...The biggest reasons gains stop are 2 imo...Your body holds muscle in correlation to how much test you have in system....And Sex hormone binding globulin is the biggest limiting factor, there are ways to maximize your test usage and lower SHBG ive typed out before, but you are a virgin, you dont even need to think of going there yet...So do 250 mgs per week, split up into 2 doses..mon/thurs, 125 each day, then when gains slow down, throw in 125, @ mon, wed, fri...Go with that for a few more weeks then up it a bit more to 500, split into 3 doses...Stay the hell away from d-bols, crappy for what you need right now....Stay away from a-dex, keep it or nolva on hand ONLY if you need it...ONLY...
Eat right, get in enough protein carbs and fats and you will be good to go try a 45 percent protein/35 percent carb, and 20 percent good fat diet, or something like that.....This sport should be about longevity....Get blood teasts done prior to ever poking yourself, you need a good baseline before you even get started, then halfway through cycle do it again, then a few weeks post-cycle do it again...
Ask for LH, FSH, creatinine, BUN(blood urea nitrogen), triglycerides, hdl, ldl ,
AST, ALT (liver enzymes)..i forget off top of my head what else i do
Be responsible...I can get to 270 plus ponds on 500 -750 mgs of test and a good program and not be to fat, so can many others...
I hope you heed some of this....I woukld not steer anyone wrong in this area...I see some decent advice here, and some real whacked advice as well..
Dont get fancy man, learn what works for you over time....
You do not need all of that stuff....

[ironwill]

I agree drop the d-bol and even i wouldn't run a-dex i'd keep nolvadex on hand estrogen is important for glycogen replenishment and igf-1 conversion in the liver. I think you'd get more out of 250-340mg test without an ai just mho.
i think i like you...:friday

[Chaps]

i think i like you...:friday

:beer

[Danger]

Ok why drop the D-bol and take less test? I get not taking the AI and just using Nolva if stuff pops up but I dont really understand why you would suggest less test and no d-bol, what is your reasoning?

[tex]

he is low dose advocate.......if its your 1st cycle you can use a lower dose and get great gains.....lower dose= less sides.....i wouldnt suggest lower than 400mg/week.....in fact that was my 1st cycle....if you really wanna use the dbol start it at week 4 or use it at the end of your cycle while you are waiting for the test to clear before pct......good luck

[Chaps]

Ok why drop the D-bol and take less test? I get not taking the AI and just using Nolva if stuff pops up but I dont really understand why you would suggest less test and no d-bol, what is your reasoning?

My reasoning is your a steroid virgin and will grow very well off of very little so you should milk the shit out of the lower doses and ever so slowly move your way up. I know myself looking back i could have grown off of less, it's not like your not going to get good gains it's just you don't NEED much to grow right now.

[ironwill]

Ok why drop the D-bol and take less test? I get not taking the AI and just using Nolva if stuff pops up but I dont really understand why you would suggest less test and no d-bol, what is your reasoning?
Please re-read my post it is all in there with my reasoning...I didnt say drop the test, i said start lower, etc...I wont try and change your mind, just extra food for thought and a different opinion...I think you would find the info useful once you get in the game a bit...Again, you are a virgin...
ahh what do i care, im digressing..have fun and good luck..

[nisser]

he has already had gyno surgery and issues in the past.

probably wouldnt hurt to use the AI.

if you decide not to though, if any nip sensitivity pops up, hop on asap

yeah it would hurt to use AI on cycle. You're just plain giving bad advice here...

don't use AI unless you have a NEED to.

[Danger]

Ok, I understand the reasons for lowering the test and it seems to be 50/50 with people saying start with a lot because you gain more at the start and don't waste it and people saying start low and build up because you can afford to use less. I don't mean to sound like a jerk asking why to everything but I really want to learn and I appreciate everyone's opinions.

The main reason I was looking to use more right now is because I don't really plan on using AAS more than once a year so when I do use I want to make it worth while.

How different would the gains from a lower dose test cycle (still 12 weeks) be from what I posted?

[JonnyO]

IMHO, would use nolva during the cycle instead of Arim. The reason to start Dbol later is so it kicks in as the test does and they work in synergy. No need for a kickstart. Looks like you did your homework so your off to a good start. And I think 8-10 weeks is perfect. I am not a fan of these longer cycles.

[Chaps]

No one has asked this but how long have you been training naturally? What are your stats? And how old are you? Also what is your diet? (macros)

[Danger]

24 years old, 5'10" tall and 205lbs
Training 5 years now, last 3 years have been serious and I have logs of every workout. I honestly dont track macros for diet right now since its way to much of a hassle but I eat min 250g of protein everyday and keep my carbs clean fruits/veggies/oats. Id saying im eating between 4000-5000cal just to stay at my current weight.

[Chaps]

No one has asked this yet but how many years have you been lifting naturally? Also what are your stats and diet?

[Gettin'r'round]

24 years old, 5'10" tall and 205lbs
Training 5 years now, last 3 years have been serious and I have logs of every workout. I honestly dont track macros for diet right now since its way to much of a hassle but I eat min 250g of protein everyday and keep my carbs clean fruits/veggies/oats. Id saying im eating between 4000-5000cal just to stay at my current weight.

I was a similar age when I went over to the dark side. Not your size but then i'm a few inches shorter.

[Chaps]

Sounds good, if you need that many calories as it is then your really going to have to eat your ass off, i would reallllllllllllly suggest keeping a food log, i know many ppl who say they eat X amount of calories when really they are eating far less.

[Danger]

Yeah I will log everything for my first cycle just so I have notes to look back at later, I cant tell how many times its helped me being able to look back in my workout logs and see what was working and what was not.