Tren and Diet Confusion

[tiramisu]

It seems like you can eat shit off of the back of a garbage truck and see results on this stuff. It also appears that for at least a short period it is possible to losing fat while gaining or at least maintaining muscle.

350 mg tren /
900 mg test / wk

This minor miracle would be great except its got me so darn confused about my diet I don't know whether I'm coming or going.

With a bulking diet it was pretty easy.

500 calories over stable and a basically a zone diet mix of macros add a quart of milk each time gains stop.

Hit 250 for Christmas.

At this point I'm just watching the scale and shaking my head:

1. lifting weight is going up.
2. body weight is stable (237)
3. body fat is decreasing

I don't know whether to eat more, less, change my macros, or just enjoy the ride.

I've got another 15 pounds of fat I'd be happy to offer up to the tren gods for the summer.

Thoughts, links, and diet tips would be appreciated.
I really don't know the best way to eat under these circumstances.

[evoke]

maybe list what your diet is like now. So we have a better idea where to help you. (Maybe it's perfect already :D)

[natenator]

strength is up, fat is coming off. I fail to understand what the problem is???

[methadone]

heh, he wants to know if he should up his calories, to possibly increase gains

[Praetorian]

It seems like you can eat shit off of the back of a garbage truck and see results on this stuff. It also appears that for at least a short period it is possible to losing fat while gaining or at least maintaining muscle.

350 mg tren /
900 mg test / wk

This minor miracle would be great except its got me so darn confused about my diet I don't know whether I'm coming or going.

With a bulking diet it was pretty easy.

500 calories over stable and a basically a zone diet mix of macros add a quart of milk each time gains stop.

Hit 250 for Christmas.

At this point I'm just watching the scale and shaking my head:

1. lifting weight is going up.
2. body weight is stable (237)
3. body fat is decreasing

I don't know whether to eat more, less, change my macros, or just enjoy the ride.

I've got another 15 pounds of fat I'd be happy to offer up to the tren gods for the summer.

Thoughts, links, and diet tips would be appreciated.
I really don't know the best way to eat under these circumstances.

First thing you need to do is decide what your goal is...gaining weight (muscle + small amount fat) or leaning out (losing fat + maintaining muscle). You cannot do both so make your choice. You may think you are doing both but it is only an illusion which stems from the inherent properties of tren. A non aromatizing androgen will make you appear harder in essence (leaner) but this is an appearance only. If you actually did hydrostatic testing your BF would be the same if not more. AAS do NOT i repeat do NOT burn fat. Winny, tren, primo etc all do NOT burn fat. They do help create a fat burnign environment ie high blood androgen levels, and they do illicit cosmetic changes to your appearance but as for fat oxidation its not happening.
Once you decide on your goal you can then easily create a plan to achieve that.
P

[juced_porkchop]

First thing you need to do is decide what your goal is...gaining weight (muscle + small amount fat) or leaning out (losing fat + maintaining muscle). You cannot do both so make your choice. You may think you are doing both but it is only an illusion which stems from the inherent properties of tren. A non aromatizing androgen will make you appear harder in essence (leaner) but this is an appearance only. If you actually did hydrostatic testing your BF would be the same if not more. AAS do NOT i repeat do NOT burn fat. Winny, tren, primo etc all do NOT burn fat. They do help create a fat burnign environment ie high blood androgen levels, and they do illicit cosmetic changes to your appearance but as for fat oxidation its not happening.
Once you decide on your goal you can then easily create a plan to achieve that.
P


some steroids do."some more some less" anavar, tren for eg DO burn fat"
beleave what you want.
I have seen it with out chaning diet from bulk to cut/leaning up.

[natenator]

some steroids do."some more some less" anavar, tren for eg DO burn fat"
beleave what you want.
I have seen it with out chaning diet from bulk to cut/leaning up.
steroids do not burn fat. Plain and simple.

Show one study that specifically shows steroids oxidize fatty acids. You can't. It doesn't exist.

[tiramisu]

See what I mean about confusion. I'm nut sure if I'm Culking or Butting. It sounds like I should pick one and get on with it.

While I'm not nearly big enough yet I would like to take off some more fat before I start bulking again (Going with Bread & Butter this winter)

So... I'll try a 12 week cutting diet starting March 1.

Thanks for the replies.

[evoke]

You should really decide whether you want to cut or bulk BEFORE you begin your cycle.
Anyway, good luck. Sounds like you're doing fine.

[juced_porkchop]

steroids do not burn fat. Plain and simple.

Show one study that specifically shows steroids oxidize fatty acids. You can't. It doesn't exist.

there is many here is a sample:


We have all heard about how Tren supposedly has magic fat burning capabilities, but have been with very little information as to how this supposedly takes place.
One of the biggest factors is the Androgen Receptor. Specifically, an Anabolic Steroids ability to bind to the AR plays a role in how much adipose tissue is reduced.

Most androgens interact with the AR and the GR (glucocortisoid receptor). The AR is present in not only muscle tissue, but in fat as well.

“In conclusion, this study clearly demonstrates the presence of AR in human preadipocytes and adipocytes and suggests that androgens may contribute, through regulation of their own receptors, to the control of adipose tissue development.”

Androgen receptors in human preadipocytes and adipocytes: regional specificities and regulation by sex steroids.
Am J Physiol. 1998 Jun;274(6 Pt 1):C1645-52.

This next study shows that the more AR’s , the more lipid uptake is inhibited:
Androgen hormone binding to adipose tissue in rats.
Biochim Biophys Acta. 1995 May 11;1244(1):117-20.


The first study shows that the more affinity and androgen has for the AR the more the AR in adipocytes upregulates. Theus the greater the AAS binds to the AR, the more upregulation of AR in adipcytes occurs (my leap). This would be a primary reason why tren seems to work so well in this regard, and would lead to a significant reduction in sub cutaneous adipose tissue.

Another reason that tren and other AAS that bind tightly to the AR could help with fat loss is that that decrease LPL lipoprotein lipasel) which is an enzyme that causes lipid accumulation

The effects of androgens on the regulation of lipolysis in adipose precursor cells.
Endocrinology. 1990 Feb;126(2):1229-34.

They may also decrease acetyl-CoA Carboxylase and Fatty Acid Sythetase
Effect of anabolic steroids on lipogenic and lipolytic enzymes in sheep tissues.
Horm Metab Res. 1982 Jan;14(1):52-3.

As for how the GR comes into play: The binding of cortisol to the GR can cause an increase in LPL. Thus, certain androgens may prevent lipid accumulation by binding to the GR.
Characterization of regional and gender differences in glucocorticoid receptors and lipoprotein lipase activity in human adipose tissue.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1994 Jun;78(6):1354-9.

The effects of cortisol on the regulation of lipoprotein lipase activity in human adipose tissue.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1994 Sep;79(3):820-5.

Effects of physiological hypercortisolemia on the regulation of lipolysis in subcutaneous adipose tissue.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1998 Feb;83(2):626-31.

Studies have shown that Tren binds to the AR even more tightly then test or nandrolone, so this is one reason why tren is good at fat loss. The thing that makes it unique is that it has been shown to bind avidly to the GR as well, which makes it even better.
Binding of glucocorticoid antagonists to androgen and glucocorticoid hormone receptors in rat skeletal muscle.
J Steroid Biochem. 1986 Feb;24(2):481-7

Evidence for sex-dependent anabolic response to androgenic steroids mediated by muscle glucocorticoid receptors in the rat.
J Steroid Biochem. 1988 Jun;29(6):575-81




there is much more but im busy. thow this dose not excuse a good diet.

[Praetorian]

some steroids do."some more some less" anavar, tren for eg DO burn fat"
beleave what you want.
I have seen it with out chaning diet from bulk to cut/leaning up.

Inexperience and ignorance to the facts do not help you here...neither does lousy anecdotal evidence. AAS DO NOT I repeat DO NOT, HAVE NOT, WILL NOT , EVER burn fat PERIOD! And for that matter I dont believe what i want, i believe what has been proven scientifically over time not what someone thinks from seeing a somewhat harder physique from non aromatizing androgens and mistakes it for fat loss.
P

[Praetorian]

there is many here is a sample:


We have all heard about how Tren supposedly has magic fat burning capabilities, but have been with very little information as to how this supposedly takes place.
One of the biggest factors is the Androgen Receptor. Specifically, an Anabolic Steroids ability to bind to the AR plays a role in how much adipose tissue is reduced.

Most androgens interact with the AR and the GR (glucocortisoid receptor). The AR is present in not only muscle tissue, but in fat as well.

“In conclusion, this study clearly demonstrates the presence of AR in human preadipocytes and adipocytes and suggests that androgens may contribute, through regulation of their own receptors, to the control of adipose tissue development.”

Androgen receptors in human preadipocytes and adipocytes: regional specificities and regulation by sex steroids.
Am J Physiol. 1998 Jun;274(6 Pt 1):C1645-52.

This next study shows that the more AR’s , the more lipid uptake is inhibited:
Androgen hormone binding to adipose tissue in rats.
Biochim Biophys Acta. 1995 May 11;1244(1):117-20.


The first study shows that the more affinity and androgen has for the AR the more the AR in adipocytes upregulates. Theus the greater the AAS binds to the AR, the more upregulation of AR in adipcytes occurs (my leap). This would be a primary reason why tren seems to work so well in this regard, and would lead to a significant reduction in sub cutaneous adipose tissue.

Another reason that tren and other AAS that bind tightly to the AR could help with fat loss is that that decrease LPL lipoprotein lipasel) which is an enzyme that causes lipid accumulation

The effects of androgens on the regulation of lipolysis in adipose precursor cells.
Endocrinology. 1990 Feb;126(2):1229-34.

They may also decrease acetyl-CoA Carboxylase and Fatty Acid Sythetase
Effect of anabolic steroids on lipogenic and lipolytic enzymes in sheep tissues.
Horm Metab Res. 1982 Jan;14(1):52-3.

As for how the GR comes into play: The binding of cortisol to the GR can cause an increase in LPL. Thus, certain androgens may prevent lipid accumulation by binding to the GR.
Characterization of regional and gender differences in glucocorticoid receptors and lipoprotein lipase activity in human adipose tissue.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1994 Jun;78(6):1354-9.

The effects of cortisol on the regulation of lipoprotein lipase activity in human adipose tissue.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1994 Sep;79(3):820-5.

Effects of physiological hypercortisolemia on the regulation of lipolysis in subcutaneous adipose tissue.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1998 Feb;83(2):626-31.

Studies have shown that Tren binds to the AR even more tightly then test or nandrolone, so this is one reason why tren is good at fat loss. The thing that makes it unique is that it has been shown to bind avidly to the GR as well, which makes it even better.
Binding of glucocorticoid antagonists to androgen and glucocorticoid hormone receptors in rat skeletal muscle.
J Steroid Biochem. 1986 Feb;24(2):481-7

Evidence for sex-dependent anabolic response to androgenic steroids mediated by muscle glucocorticoid receptors in the rat.
J Steroid Biochem. 1988 Jun;29(6):575-81




there is much more but im busy. thow this dose not excuse a good diet.

None of these actually prove that aas have any affect on fat oxidation. Yes they bind to the AR depending on the AS with different affinity. All this does is create a fat burning environment which allows fatty acid oxidation to occur.
P

[nitrous]

it sounds to me that the correct thing to say is that it indirectly causes fat loss


correct me if i am wrong

[Praetorian]

it sounds to me that the correct thing to say is that it indirectly causes fat loss


correct me if i am wrong

Close...aas do not cause fat loss....the help create an environment that illicits fat loss if certain other conditions apply...namely diet (ie caloric restriction, marco ratio manipulation etc) cardio, training etc
They do nt directly contribute to fatty acid oxidation...this is a newbie argument and has been hashed to death on almost every board many times. The end result is the same.
P

[nisser]

i think you're grasping at straws. Nowhere did he say that aas promote fatty acid oxidation.

[natenator]

i think you're grasping at straws. Nowhere did he say that aas promote fatty acid oxidation.
who are you referring to with this post?

[St]

You have great advice from Praetorian and natenator.The gear makes for the environment for oxidation,but it boils down to diet and cardio.