Next Cycle Options

[nitrous]

Okay guys.. i am thinking:

test e 1-12 at 500mg (inj twice a week)
dbol 2-7 35-50mg ED


what should i be doing for pct.. should i run an AI throughout the entire cycle? should i run HCG throughout the entire cycle? should i run something besides dbol, tbol? im just looking for the best gains possible with the least sides.. also thought about running proviron for the whole cycle?

for pct i was thinking a 6 week cycle taper
85, 75, 55, 45, 35, 25mg/wk
plus a serm plus an AI.. Recommendations guys?

[gustavo77]

What is your age, stats, lifting and cycle experience??

[nitrous]

24, 5'5-6 165-170, lifting for like 10 years, 2 previous cycles.. first was m1t 10mg for 4 weeks and the other was var for 40mg for 10 weeks.. first time growing a dick and injecting.. i can copy and paste my diet off of other sites if you need it too..

[hugh mungus]

I'm a huge fan of adding Eq with Test e.

[nitrous]

I'm a huge fan of adding Eq with Test e.

i know many are.. i think it is even exactly what i want.. nice lean gains.. increased appetite.. but everyone says just do test for first time injecting and add in eq on the next time..

[gustavo77]

Okay guys.. i am thinking:

test e 1-12 at 500mg (inj twice a week)
dbol 2-7 35-50mg ED


what should i be doing for pct.. should i run an AI throughout the entire cycle? should i run HCG throughout the entire cycle? should i run something besides dbol, tbol? im just looking for the best gains possible with the least sides.. also thought about running proviron for the whole cycle?

for pct i was thinking a 6 week cycle taper
85, 75, 55, 45, 35, 25mg/wk
plus a serm plus an AI.. Recommendations guys?


24, 5'5-6 165-170, lifting for like 10 years, 2 previous cycles.. first was m1t 10mg for 4 weeks and the other was var for 40mg for 10 weeks.. first time growing a dick and injecting.. i can copy and paste my diet off of other sites if you need it too..

Here is how i would run it:

1-12 test E 500mg/wk
3-7 t-bol 50mg/day or d-bol 30mg/day
1-(4 days before you start pct) HCG 500iu 2x per week, ie mon, thurs
1-(pct) adex 0.5-1mg eod

PCT (starts 14 days after your last shot of test)

1-3 Clomid 50mg/day
1-5 Aromasin 25mg/day

What do you mean 6 week cycle taper?? Tapering off the test? If so, there is no need, the test will taper off just fine on it's own...

[nitrous]

Here is how i would run it:

1-12 test E 500mg/wk
3-7 t-bol 50mg/day or d-bol 30mg/day
1-(4 days before you start pct) HCG 500iu 2x per week, ie mon, thurs
1-(pct) adex 0.5-1mg eod

PCT (starts 14 days after your last shot of test)

1-3 Clomid 50mg/day
1-5 Aromasin 25mg/day

What do you mean 6 week cycle taper?? Tapering off the test? If so, there is no need, the test will taper off just fine on it's own...

yeah i was talkin about tapering the test.. hmm okay

why not run the tbol or dbol for longer than 4 weeks though? not like the liver would be effected much for doing it longer when you are running it at such low dosages

[hugh mungus]

i know many are.. i think it is even exactly what i want.. nice lean gains.. increased appetite.. but everyone says just do test for first time injecting and add in eq on the next time..

I have the best gains on a 600ms/wk TestE and 600mg/wk Eq. Very minimal sides if any....crazy strong, crazy lean. I'm not a fan of orals to start, so you'll never see them in any of my recomendations.

[Kronis]

yeah i was talkin about tapering the test.. hmm okay

why not run the tbol or dbol for longer than 4 weeks though? not like the liver would be effected much for doing it longer when you are running it at such low dosages

tapering test is debatable, with long esters I don't think it's necessary at all.

I think he was just giving you a rough guide. If you wanted to do it for 6 weeks that's your call.

[gustavo77]

yeah i was talkin about tapering the test.. hmm okay

why not run the tbol or dbol for longer than 4 weeks though? not like the liver would be effected much for doing it longer when you are running it at such low dosages

Wks 3 through 7 is 5 weeks not 4...

[nitrous]

tapering test is debatable, with long esters I don't think it's necessary at all.

I think he was just giving you a rough guide. If you wanted to do it for 6 weeks that's your call.

i'll consider it.. have more than enough sittin around and from what i have researched dosages under 100mg/wk will not shut you down.. but with a longer ester i can see it being less necessary.. i'll consider even just doing it for 3 weeks instead of 6.. i'll look into it thanks for the reply man..


gustavo77 you dont think that adex throughout the cycle will be a joint issue? i have bad enough issues with the joints as it is when my strength goes up any cuz i lift quite a bit for my weight.. i know what to do about it but i just dont wanna add more flames to that fire

[nitrous]

Wks 3 through 7 is 5 weeks not 4...

hey its friday and i have had a long day :P but why not run it 6-8 instead of 5?

[St]

I would take t-bol anyday over dbol.

[nitrous]

I would take t-bol anyday over dbol.

i have never done either.. wanting to try dbol just cuz i have a bunch and its huge history and popularity.. but i'll consider switching to tbol instead

[gustavo77]

hey its friday and i have had a long day :P but why not run it 6-8 instead of 5?

Toxicity, effect on cholesterol etc... 6 weeks would not be that bad but IMO, 8 weeks of orals is pushing it. Others may say that the toxicity of orals is overstated but i believe that everyone is different. Some people may have an iron liver and platinum kidneys and can handle 10-12 weeks of d-bol and drol....others cannot..do you know which one you are??

Take it slow, listen to your body...no need to hit up 8 weeks of harsh orals on your first real cycle. Do a few weeks of orals and then simply enjoy the high levels of test in your body.

[nitrous]

good points gustavo, but nitrous why don't you just run the test on it's own or atleast with var since you've already have tried it.. whats the rush?

no rush.. just figured running tbol or dbol over var was a choice that woulda given me better results.. i mean i saw a big difference with the var but im sure the mass gains (which is what i am looking for) will be much greater with dbol or tbol.. maybe i will go with tbol since it is a bit weaker than dbol

[nitrous]

yea, but the test alone is going to be greater than the var or tbol.. so why not see what it's all about, pumps, hunger, strenght etc.. catch my drift? see how you feel on it and at what mg

i'll consider it.. i mean i understand it would make sense to add in var instead of the other orals because i have done it before but i really dont want to have the appetite supression i got from it... and m1t well im sure the test would help a lot with the lethargy but i dunno if i wanna go that route again

if i decide to add in an oral though i will stick with gustavo's recommendation of only 5 weeks on it so over half my cycle would be test only (and the adex and hcg)

[St]

i'll consider it.. i mean i understand it would make sense to add in var instead of the other orals because i have done it before but i really dont want to have the appetite supression i got from it... and m1t well im sure the test would help a lot with the lethargy but i dunno if i wanna go that route again

if i decide to add in an oral though i will stick with gustavo's recommendation of only 5 weeks on it so over half my cycle would be test only (and the adex and hcg)


With t-bol you will still eat,you will be full on T-bol,just like d-bol but no water,gyno,zits,high BP like so many people get when on d-bol.I see a few guy on t-bol in my gym and wow you will be happy 60mg ed if you do try it.

[gustavo77]

gustavo77 you dont think that adex throughout the cycle will be a joint issue? i have bad enough issues with the joints as it is when my strength goes up any cuz i lift quite a bit for my weight.. i know what to do about it but i just dont wanna add more flames to that fire

I hear you on this one bro, as i have issues with my joints also...you will simply have to go by how you feel. If your joints start to get a bit dry or sore then you can lower your adex dose...you may have to play with the dose a bit before you find your sweet spot.

[nitrous]

With t-bol you will still eat,you will be full on T-bol,just like d-bol but no water,gyno,zits,high BP like so many people get when on d-bol.I see a few guy on t-bol in my gym and wow you will be happy 60mg ed if you do try it.

im assuming the second t-bol should have been d-bol in that sentence?


either way i think i'll go with your recommendation and add in tbol if i add in an oral

[nitrous]

I hear you on this one bro, as i have issues with my joints also...you will simply have to go by how you feel. If your joints start to get a bit dry or sore then you can lower your adex dose...you may have to play with the dose a bit before you find your sweet spot.

how would i know if my dosage is too low though.. excessive water retention?

[gustavo77]

how would i know if my dosage is too low though.. excessive water retention?

Water retention, sore nips, lack of sex drive and or sexual performance are all symptoms of high estrodiol levels in males.

[nitrous]

Water retention, sore nips, lack of sex drive and or sexual performance are all symptoms of high estrodiol levels in males.

yeah i wouldnt think a lack of sex drive would be possible while on a test cycle but i guess high enough estrogen could set it off

[gustavo77]

yeah i wouldnt think a lack of sex drive would be possible while on a test cycle but i guess high enough estrogen could set it off

High estrogen increases SHBG...

[nitrous]

High estrogen increases SHBG...

is there any positive reason to have SHBG?

[Kronis]

is there any positive reason to have SHBG?

none.

As its name implies it binds to sex hormones and decreases their effectiveness.

[nitrous]

none.

As its name implies it binds to sex hormones and decreases their effectiveness.

cool thanks.. just wanted to be sure

[Ritch]

Before you do a the taper remember you`re supposed to do the statis period of 100mg a week for x amount of weeks. Anyway I have experience with neither and Gustavo knows his shit and has provided you with good info here. So many protocols out there, tough to make choices.

[nitrous]

when i was talking about the tapering i was simply refering to "P22 test tapering". I dont know if i can post links to other forums or not but if you simply google it then you will see what i am talking about.. but like you said i believe gustavo has suggested something really good and i believe i will go with that.

[Ritch]

when i was talking about the tapering i was simply refering to "P22 test tapering". I dont know if i can post links to other forums or not but if you simply google it then you will see what i am talking about.. but like you said i believe gustavo has suggested something really good and i believe i will go with that.

Yeah, I was refering to prisoner`s as well. Say you`re taking test and eqipoise for 12 weeks. You stop the equi at week 10 and keep taking the test t`il week 12. Then the statis period where you take 100mg of test for 4 weeks, this can be longer depending how aggressive the cycle was. Then the tapering as you mentioned. That is the tapering method.

[nitrous]

Yeah, I was refering to prisoner`s as well. Say you`re taking test and eqipoise for 12 weeks. You stop the equi at week 10 and keep taking the test t`il week 12. Then the statis period where you take 100mg of test for 4 weeks, this can be longer depending how aggressive the cycle was. Then the tapering as you mentioned. That is the tapering method.

yeah hmm sooo many pct protocol options... i would love to see a study of 25 men do both options with blood tests before and after and see what works best lol

i am not sure what is right but i think that gustavo's suggestion will be good enough..

[Ritch]

yeah hmm sooo many pct protocol options... i would love to see a study of 25 men do both options with blood tests before and after and see what works best lol

i am not sure what is right but i think that gustavo's suggestion will be good enough..

I most certainly agree with what you just said, but may give the tapering protocol a run when I start my test equi cycle this summer.

[nitrous]

I most certainly agree with what you just said, but may give the tapering protocol a run when I start my test equi cycle this summer.

makes sense.. then you gotta change the anti e to match the taper... only problem with that is from what i have heard eq should be run for a minimum of 12 weeks and most favor it for 15+.. so if you are going to stop it a couple weeks before the test then you should be doing like almost a 20 week cycle plus the taper ontop of that

[Ritch]

Most likely will do a 20 weeker, that`s why I like the idea of a taper, psychologically it seems favoralble. It will be a rather low dose cycle about 400mg test 300mg equipoise per week. So it will be a long cycle with a 6 week statis then 6 week taper. According to prisonner after the taper, you can go back on again. I`ll see, but picture myself being off after the taper for 6 weeks or so.

[nitrous]

Most likely will do a 20 weeker, that`s why I like the idea of a taper, psychologically it seems favoralble. It will be a rather low dose cycle about 400mg test 300mg equipoise per week. So it will be a long cycle with a 6 week statis then 6 week taper. According to prisonner after the taper, you can go back on again. I`ll see, but picture myself being off after the taper for 6 weeks or so.

yeah i think thats sorta what i wouldnt mind doin next time around.. wanna see how this goes though and go from there