Thought on energy spent eating.

[JonnyO]

Our bodies burn more calories when we eat whole foods rather than shakes and all that right. Thats fine during the day, but how about after workouts when your energy stores are burnt out and low. I train in the evening and after my workouts I have time for 2-3 more meals other than my pwo shake. Wouldnt it make more sense to eat foods that are easily digested like egg whites/ oatmeal or cream of wheat and cottage cheese that our body can break down and digest quite easily rather than chicken and steak and potatoes where it can take a lot longer to digest and will use more energy to digest those foods? This way we would be able to refill our energy stores and load up on protein until the next morning and be nice and energized for the next days feeds without wasting energy on digestion.

Thoughts?

[natenator]

makes logical sense to me! wonder how it would work in theory?

PS: how do you manage to eat 2-3 more times after you workout at night? I do as well but eating 3 more times would have me up til midnight! no thanks!

[natenator]

makes logical sense to me! wonder how it would work in theory?

PS: how do you manage to eat 2-3 more times after you workout at night? I do as well but eating 3 more times would have me up til midnight! no thanks!

[JonnyO]

I have a 7 week old boy that keeps me up all damn night, lol.

[5151]

Our bodies burn more calories when we eat whole foods rather than shakes and all that right. Thats fine during the day, but how about after workouts when your energy stores are burnt out and low. I train in the evening and after my workouts I have time for 2-3 more meals other than my pwo shake. Wouldnt it make more sense to eat foods that are easily digested like egg whites/ oatmeal or cream of wheat and cottage cheese that our body can break down and digest quite easily rather than chicken and steak and potatoes where it can take a lot longer to digest and will use more energy to digest those foods? This way we would be able to refill our energy stores and load up on protein until the next morning and be nice and energized for the next days feeds without wasting energy on digestion.

Thoughts?

I haven't seen anything conclusive that whole food actually increases energy expenditure vs liquid food. Typically DIM is a constant and is reliant upon the macronutrient more than anything. While workout's are energy intensive they surely do not deplete you unless in a no carb situation and doing a specific depletion workout and exercise impacts nutrient partitioning positively for several hours post workout anyway.

[ironwill]

It makes sense...Wouldnt eating a steak prior to bed make sense so your body has a flow of protein for several hours while digesting, and doing body repairs...
So all day eat foods that are easily digested as you said, like fish etc, to keep you having a constant flow of proteins etc that get digested effectively, and efficiently and therefore you would probably get in more and better calories..But before bed i want something that "sticks to your ribs" for lack of a better term at the moment..
Also a digestive enzyme to help the whole process become even more efficient..Or some fruits that are also very effective for this..
Note i consider cottage cheese a longer digesting food type, i eat prior to bed often..

[JonnyO]

exercise impacts nutrient partitioning positively for several hours post workout anyway.

Exactly so would you rather eat a 3+ more meals after training like me or 2 meals of steak and chicken? I think eating foods that will be easier to digest would be better and you'd be able to get more food in.

[JonnyO]

It makes sense...Wouldnt eating a steak prior to bed make sense so your body has a flow of protein for several hours while digesting, and doing body repairs...
So all day eat foods that are easily digested as you said, like fish etc, to keep you having a constant flow of proteins etc that get digested effectively, and efficiently and therefore you would probably get in more and better calories..But before bed i want something that "sticks to your ribs" for lack of a better term at the moment..
Also a digestive enzyme to help the whole process become even more efficient..Or some fruits that are also very effective for this..
Note i consider cottage cheese a longer digesting food type, i eat prior to bed often..

I agree would be right before bed. I will usually have cottage cheese then as well. I train around 6pm, have my powo shake and can eat 3 more meals, these can be cod, eggs, cottage cheese or even another shake in there as well. These foods dont fill me up as much as beef and chicken do so I am able to get more foods in. Now precontest I would rather go for the chicken and steak of course, lol.

[Big D]

your theaory makes alot of sense to me, i've been eating alot more eggs whites during the day, i've been able to pack alot more protein during the day almost 100 grams more.

[5151]

It makes sense...Wouldnt eating a steak prior to bed make sense so your body has a flow of protein for several hours while digesting, and doing body repairs...
So all day eat foods that are easily digested as you said, like fish etc, to keep you having a constant flow of proteins etc that get digested effectively, and efficiently and therefore you would probably get in more and better calories..But before bed i want something that "sticks to your ribs" for lack of a better term at the moment..
Also a digestive enzyme to help the whole process become even more efficient..Or some fruits that are also very effective for this..
Note i consider cottage cheese a longer digesting food type, i eat prior to bed often..
Keep in mind we have no reliable numbers for how quickly meat protein actually digests. Saying it digests slowly or easier would be pure speculation.

Exactly so would you rather eat a 3+ more meals after training like me or 2 meals of steak and chicken? I think eating foods that will be easier to digest would be better and you'd be able to get more food in.

I think I may be confused when you say "easier to digest." Do you just mean it doesn't feel as heavy on your stomach or how quickly the food is actually being digested?

[Born2Juice4Ever]

your theaory makes alot of sense to me, i've been eating alot more eggs whites during the day, i've been able to pack alot more protein during the day almost 100 grams more.


I have posted very conclusive data on egg whites, how they work and so one.
I will quickly say that the eggs provide the friendliest proteins above all foods...also and this is crucial IMO, egg whites are consumed to 99%, where for example our bodies may only digest 40% of the proteins a steak may have to offer.
We also need to take into consideration when it is that your body utalizes all these foods. Our system is not designed to work hard at breaking aminos during the nights, we are not designed to break that steak, or that can of tuna.
If I recall correctly pasta takes HOURS to go through your system, and so does a steak and other meats.
I too train in the evenings, roughly 6- or 7 PM as a general. My last heavy meal is prior to my work out, right after my workout, I have a tremendous shake, then a meal before 9PM...usually carbs.---
what about insulin spike early in the morning fellas? I believe WE release and are at our peak....how is having that steak at 10PM going to benefit us?
---where a steak takes anywhere from 12 to 24 hours? this depends on various factors also.

I will vow to egg whites, as it is proven to me over and over, that I can attain the best and cleanest mass ever during my heavy intakes.
Last year when I achieved 247lbs, it was in part because of the 24 egg whites that I would intake daily---did this for the entire length of the 9 month cycle.

[5151]

I have posted very conclusive data on egg whites, how they work and so one.
I will quickly say that the eggs provide the friendliest proteins above all foods...also and this is crucial IMO, egg whites are consumed to 99%, where for example our bodies may only digest 40% of the proteins a steak may have to offer.
We also need to take into consideration when it is that your body utalizes all these foods. Our system is not designed to work hard at breaking aminos during the nights, we are not designed to break that steak, or that can of tuna.
If I recall correctly pasta takes HOURS to go through your system, and so does a steak and other meats.
I too train in the evenings, roughly 6- or 7 PM as a general. My last heavy meal is prior to my work out, right after my workout, I have a tremendous shake, then a meal before 9PM...usually carbs.---
what about insulin spike early in the morning fellas? I believe WE release and are at our peak....how is having that steak at 10PM going to benefit us?
---where a steak takes anywhere from 12 to 24 hours? this depends on various factors also.

I will vow to egg whites, as it is proven to me over and over, that I can attain the best and cleanest mass ever during my heavy intakes.
Last year when I achieved 247lbs, it was in part because of the 24 egg whites that I would intake daily---did this for the entire length of the 9 month cycle.

A steak 12-24 hours? There is no data to support this. Where did you pull the 40% digestion rate of steak from? Most common forms of protein are between 90-100. Egg whites won't make a shit of difference in that regard.

Protein on it's own actually causes quite high spikes in insulin without carbs. I have no idea what you are getting at there and still don't believe insulin manipulation should be a primary concern of a body recompositionist.

I also don't understand what you mean by our bodies not being designed to break down amino acids at night?

[JonnyO]

Protein on it's own actually causes quite high spikes in insulin without carbs. I have no idea what you are getting at there and still don't believe insulin manipulation should be a primary concern of a body recompositionist.

I also don't understand what you mean by our bodies not being designed to break down amino acids at night?

Manipulating insulin is a large part of being a bodybuilder as there are certain times that it is beneficial, ie, first thing in the morning and powo or even pwo.

Do you have any studies that break down the proteins and types of and their effects on Insulin levels?

[5151]

Manipulating insulin is a large part of being a bodybuilder as there are certain times that it is beneficial, ie, first thing in the morning and powo or even pwo.

Do you have any studies that break down the proteins and types of and their effects on Insulin levels?

This study:

An insulin index of foods: the insulin demand generated by 1000-kJ portions of common foods

SH Holt, JC Miller and P Petocz
Department of Biochemistry, University of Sydney, Australia.
was referenced in:

A Review of Issues of Dietary Protein
Intake in Humans
Shane Bilsborough and Neil Mann

I have the full text of the second paper and it states:

Recently an insulin index of foods has been established which unexpectedly
demonstrates that 1000 kJ of fish protein (~ 60 g) elicits a greater peak insulin level
than 1000 kJ of white pasta (~ 60 g).

Also the Bilsborough and Mann quote the only well documented numbers of egg absorption at 2.8g/hr for cooked and 1.3g/hr for uncooked. However I believe it is the entire egg protein being tested not just the white.

[4031]

I have posted very conclusive data on egg whites, how they work and so one.
I will quickly say that the eggs provide the friendliest proteins above all foods...also and this is crucial IMO, egg whites are consumed to 99%, where for example our bodies may only digest 40% of the proteins a steak may have to offer.
We also need to take into consideration when it is that your body utalizes all these foods. Our system is not designed to work hard at breaking aminos during the nights, we are not designed to break that steak, or that can of tuna.
If I recall correctly pasta takes HOURS to go through your system, and so does a steak and other meats.
I too train in the evenings, roughly 6- or 7 PM as a general. My last heavy meal is prior to my work out, right after my workout, I have a tremendous shake, then a meal before 9PM...usually carbs.---
what about insulin spike early in the morning fellas? I believe WE release and are at our peak....how is having that steak at 10PM going to benefit us?
---where a steak takes anywhere from 12 to 24 hours? this depends on various factors also.

I will vow to egg whites, as it is proven to me over and over, that I can attain the best and cleanest mass ever during my heavy intakes.
Last year when I achieved 247lbs, it was in part because of the 24 egg whites that I would intake daily---did this for the entire length of the 9 month cycle.


do you eat your egg white raw or cooked?

[nisser]

"Recently an insulin index of foods has been established which unexpectedly
demonstrates that 1000 kJ of fish protein (~ 60 g) elicits a greater peak insulin level
than 1000 kJ of white pasta (~ 60 g) "

There's a lot of bad literature out there; peer-reviewed or no.

That statement is so absurd I'd not even wipe my ass with his manuscript.

[JonnyO]

First article is a joke.

2nd one says most of its findings are 30 years old and carried out over a limited sample size = non conclusive! It also says protein intake of 300-400g/d will result in some degree of hyperaminoacidemia, and some other bs as well as some conversion to FAT? LOL ok explain why contest dieters consistently pound back 300-400g/d minimum and lose body fat, LOL. Protein absorbtion rate of 1-4g/h...what a joke! And fat is absorbed at 14-18g/h, then if thats so why does fat slow down protein absorption? According to this study it would speed it up.

I'm not even going to look at the 3rd study for christ sake.

Come back when you find something useful bro. You cannot deny anecdotal evidence with these BS studies your peeaching.

[ironwill]

I go by how i feel, if i eat say baked fish and brown rice with oliveoil and vinegar salad, im friggin starving in an hour or less...If i eat the same weight in steak and brown rice and oliveoil and vinegar dressing, i am good for double that time, so i am assuming the fish is being digested at a much quicker rate than the steak ....

[5151]

"Recently an insulin index of foods has been established which unexpectedly
demonstrates that 1000 kJ of fish protein (~ 60 g) elicits a greater peak insulin level
than 1000 kJ of white pasta (~ 60 g) "

There's a lot of bad literature out there; peer-reviewed or no.

That statement is so absurd I'd not even wipe my ass with his manuscript.

I'll accept the fact both would be on an empty stomach something that may play into effect and who eats fish in their postworkout shake anyway? However ignoring the fact that protein raises insulin sufficiently in the postworkout window or period is absurd it is well documented. If you want to argue how about at least an abstract, reference or something saying how protein does not provide an increase in insulin. Here are a few that are more specific to the situation as I admit the one above was sort of abstract however was sufficient for my point:


Amino Acids. 2008 Aug 5. [Epub ahead of print]Click here to read Links
Human insulinotropic response to oral ingestion of native and hydrolysed whey protein.
Power O, Hallihan A, Jakeman P.

Human Science Research Unit, Department of Physical Education and Sports Science, University of Limerick, Limerick, Ireland, orla.power@ul.ie.

The insulinotropic response to the ingestion of whey protein and whey protein hydrolysate, independent of carbohydrate, is not known. This study examined the effect of protein hydrolysis on the insulinotropic response to the ingestion of whey protein. Sixteen healthy males ingested a 500 mL solution containing either 45 g of whey protein (WPI) or whey protein hydrolysate (WPH). The estimated rate of gastric empting was not altered by hydrolysis of the protein [18 (3) vs. 23 (3) min, n = 16; P = 0.15]. Maximum plasma insulin concentration (C (max)) occurred later (40 vs. 60 min) and was 28% [234 (26) vs. 299 (31) mM, P = 0.018] greater following ingestion of the WPH compared to the WPI leading to a 43% increase [7.6 (0.9) vs. 10.8 (2.6) nM, P = 0.21] in the AUC of insulin for the WPH. Of the amino acids with known insulinotropic properties only Phe demonstrated a significantly greater maximal concentration [C (max); 65 (2) vs. 72 (3) muM, n = 16; P = 0.01] and increase (+22%) in AUC following ingestion of the WPH. In conclusion, ingestion of whey protein is an effective insulin secretagogue. Hydrolysis of whey protein prior to ingestion augments the maximal insulin concentration by a mechanism that is unrelated to gastric emptying of the peptide solution.
This is in type 2 diabetics however much of the research in the insulin domain comes from diabetes research:

Am J Clin Nutr. 2007 Apr;85(4):996-1004.Click here to read Links
Metabolic effects of amino acid mixtures and whey protein in healthy subjects: studies using glucose-equivalent drinks.
Nilsson M, Holst JJ, Björck IM.

Division of Applied Nutrition and Food Chemistry, Lund University, Lund, Sweden. mikael.nilsson@inl.lth.se

BACKGROUND: Milk protein, in particular the whey fraction, has been shown to display insulinotrophic properties in healthy persons and persons with type 2 diabetes. In parallel to the hyperinsulinemia, a pronounced postprandial rise of certain amino acids and of glucose-dependent insulinotrophic polypeptide (GIP) was observed in plasma. OBJECTIVE: The objective of the study was to determine to what extent the insulinotrophic properties of whey could be simulated by specific amino acid mixtures. DESIGN: Twelve healthy volunteers were served drinks consisting of pure glucose (reference drink) or glucose supplemented with free amino acids or whey proteins (test drinks). RESULTS: A test drink with the branched-chain amino acids isoleucine, leucine, and valine resulted in significantly higher insulin responses than did the glucose reference. A drink containing glucose and leucine, isoleucine, valine, lysine, and threonine mimicked the glycemic and insulinemic responses seen after whey ingestion. With consumption of this drink, the glucose area under the curve (AUC) was 44% smaller (P < 0.05) and the insulin AUC was 31% larger (NS) than with consumption of the reference drink. With consumption of the whey drink, the AUCs were 56% smaller (glucose; P < 0.05) and 60% larger (insulin; P < 0.05), respectively, than with the reference drink. The whey drink was accompanied by an 80% greater GIP response (P < 0.05), whereas the drinks containing free amino acids did not significantly affect GIP secretion. CONCLUSION: A mixture of leucine, isoleucine, valine, lysine, and threonine resulted in glycemic and insulinemic responses closely mimicking those seen after whey ingestion in the absence of an additional effect of GIP and glucagon-like peptide 1.

Regardless my point is that protein will have an impact on insulin. If you can find contrary evidence I'd love to take a look at it.

[5151]

First article is a joke.

2nd one says most of its findings are 30 years old and carried out over a limited sample size = non conclusive!
There are many confounds in that article including the retardedly high digestion rate of pork included. Most of these faults are mentioned in the article itself. Problem is you missed the entire point. I was challenging your stance that some proteins are more easily digestible(I took this to mean quicker) when in reality there is not much credible data on the g/hr digestion rate of whole foods. Literally what's in that article is all there is to go on. period. show me something else that has a reference for numbers.

It also says protein intake of 300-400g/d will result in some degree of hyperaminoacidemia, and some other bs as well as some conversion to FAT? LOL ok explain why contest dieters consistently pound back 300-400g/d minimum and lose body fat, LOL. Protein absorbtion rate of 1-4g/h...what a joke!
This couldn't be less relevant to the discussion at hand but okay. Keep in mind the people eating 300-400g/day in the studies are not bodybuilders on drugs. I don't see many naturals eating 400g a day. High protein intakes(300-400g for an average person) not accompanied by drugs is going to have some conversion to energy. In a calorie surplus how do we store excess energy?
Hyperaminoacidemia is bascially excess amino acids in the blood stream creating a positive nitrogen balance. Something athletes are interested because of their increased demand for protein. For the average couch potato(who the study is directed towards) no so much.
1-4g/hr protein absorption rates??? The study quotes from 1-10g/hr. Yeah you understand why eating every two to three hours to keep amino acid concentrations up is retarded now? No saying there isn't merit in eating 6 meals but this is not one of them.


And fat is absorbed at 14-18g/h, then if thats so why does fat slow down protein absorption? According to this study it would speed it up.
Again totally irrelevant to the subject at hand but okay. You are making quite a leap here saying that because something in the gut has quick absorption so will everything else in there with it. I don't know how you came to that conclusion unless I'm missing something. More food in the gut slows down digestion of everything. If you eat 1 meal a day of 4000kcal it is probably going to take about just as long to digest that same 4000kcal spread over 6 meals. Keep in mind the the papers are looking at these foods eaten on an empty stomach. Combining will have all sort of different impacts.

I'm not even going to look at the 3rd study for christ sake.
There are only two studies referenced in my original post.


Come back when you find something useful bro. You cannot deny anecdotal evidence with these BS studies your peeaching.
This is basically what I asked you to do originally. You presented a theory. I looked at your theory providing evidence as to why some of your premises are flawed. Usually when someone presents a theory it is on them to prove it true not to everyone else to prove it wrong.

[5151]

I go by how i feel, if i eat say baked fish and brown rice with oliveoil and vinegar salad, im friggin starving in an hour or less...If i eat the same weight in steak and brown rice and oliveoil and vinegar dressing, i am good for double that time, so i am assuming the fish is being digested at a much quicker rate than the steak ....

This makes sense. Beef is more calorie dense. I just threw cooked salmon(fattier fish) vs roasted eye of the round(leanest beef cut) into fitday and an ounce of beef still had 25% more calories than the fish.

I imagine the ease of digestion will rely on a few things mastication, any sort of tenderizer enzymes applied to the meat, cooking method, cut(where it is cut from will have a huge impact on the amount of connective tissue that has to be broken down.

If you are someone who training makes it difficult to eat for several hours after sure eating things that agree with you makes sense sure. I know many people who training makes as hungry as a horse. I'll say that making food selections post workout that make the diet possible to stick to is important. Foods that are easier to eat will differ from person to person. My main arguement here is that eating beef after a workout isn't going to be any different than eating eggs.

[JonnyO]

The study quotes from 1-10g/hr. Yeah you understand why eating every two to three hours to keep amino acid concentrations up is retarded now? No saying there isn't merit in eating 6 meals but this is not one of them.

What is your take on meal frequency and protein intake?

I am wondering why they would do a study of high protein in a sedentary person.


There are only two studies referenced in my original post.

Maybe I should have tried looking to see that, lol.

[JonnyO]

My main arguement here is that eating beef after a workout isn't going to be any different than eating eggs.

I would think that beef would take longer to break down than egg whites. This would be why I would prefer them. Plus beef will give you that full feeling longer than eggs.

[JonnyO]

Problem is you missed the entire point. I was challenging your stance that some proteins are more easily digestible(I took this to mean quicker) when in reality there is not much credible data on the g/hr digestion rate of whole foods.

I agree on whole foods there isnt much info out there on the rates of digestion (proteolysis), but are you saying there is no difference in say Casein and Whey? (sorry for my confusion)

I was guessing that because I can eat eggs, fish and even cottage cheese and not be as full for as long as I would be if I ate beef or chicken that it has been digested. These foods allow me to eat more in a shorter time frame where as beef/chicken I would be full for many hours. Which is great when dieting which is why on diets myself and guys I train usually rely on whole foods. But when aiming for mass I want to eat as much as I can really.

[nisser]

Regardless my point is that protein will have an impact on insulin. If you can find contrary evidence I'd love to take a look at it.

Real life experience and common sense.

Insulin is released as a function of blood sugar levels and there's simply no plausible way for protein to spiking sugar levels. You can cite references till the cows come home but show me the biochemical path that would induce an insulin response. I commented because the statement is absolutely absurd in any scenario.

I think it's great that you are reading literature but as someone that is currently in grad school (life sciences), you have to read things very critically as a lot of the research out there is entirely bogus or so methodologically convoluted that it isn't of any use.

[jsv22]

Real life experience and common sense.

Insulin is released as a function of blood sugar levels and there's simply no plausible way for protein to spiking sugar levels. You can cite references till the cows come home but show me the biochemical path that would induce an insulin response. I commented because the statement is absolutely absurd in any scenario.

I think it's great that you are reading literature but as someone that is currently in grad school (life sciences), you have to read things very critically as a lot of the research out there is entirely bogus or so methodologically convoluted that it isn't of any use.

if you think that glucose is the only thing that regulates insulin release your WAY off, even fat can have an effect on insulin release. I do agree that protein/aminos will not spike glucose levels when coingested with glucose . But because of an increase in insulin release or decreased gastric motility from coingestion, there is a concomitant decrease in blood glucose.

there's two ways for insulin levels to be augmented by proteins and amino acids (that i can recall). for one they act directly on the pancreas just as glucose will to increase or decrease insulin secretion. they can also influence the release of the incretin hormones (GLP-1 and GIP). for example oral glucose administration is assocaited with a greater increase in plasma insulin levels when compared with the same amount of glucose given intravenously, and is estimated to account for approximately 50-70% of the total insulin secreted. It is well known that protein/aminos can affect release from their respective cells in the intestine.

here's cool article...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17413098?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

[5151]

Sorry guys i have been really busy the past couple days.


I would think that beef would take longer to break down than egg whites. This would be why I would prefer them. Plus beef will give you that full feeling longer than eggs.
Can't argue with that

I agree on whole foods there isnt much info out there on the rates of digestion (proteolysis), but are you saying there is no difference in say Casein and Whey? (sorry for my confusion)

I was guessing that because I can eat eggs, fish and even cottage cheese and not be as full for as long as I would be if I ate beef or chicken that it has been digested. These foods allow me to eat more in a shorter time frame where as beef/chicken I would be full for many hours. Which is great when dieting which is why on diets myself and guys I train usually rely on whole foods. But when aiming for mass I want to eat as much as I can really.
Yeah I wasn't arguing that if you need to eat a lot more food after training what ever is easiest on the gut wouldn't be the best route. Just saying that training won't affect you so much that it will interfere with digestion of certain proteins. I think choosing a diet that you can stick to is the most important thing out there. If you can't eat what you require to grow you're ****ed.



Real life experience and common sense.

Insulin is released as a function of blood sugar levels and there's simply no plausible way for protein to spiking sugar levels. You can cite references till the cows come home but show me the biochemical path that would induce an insulin response. I commented because the statement is absolutely absurd in any scenario.

I think it's great that you are reading literature but as someone that is currently in grad school (life sciences), you have to read things very critically as a lot of the research out there is entirely bogus or so methodologically convoluted that it isn't of any use.

You understand insulin by real life experience and common sense? That is retarded. Most people have no idea what the **** insulin is or what it does.

Are you kidding me that protein doesn't affect insulin? This is NOT debatable. Milk proteins(you know them fancy whey and casein shakes) are insulinotropic. The BCAA's are also known to stimulate insulin. Whey is a secretagogue of GLP-1. I can post study after study but you don't like those so try wikipedia? I'm not going to post a bunch of links if you are going to just say that research is all bad without giving specific reasoning as to why the particular abstract or study is flawed. why don't you show me research saying that protein or the bcaas don't have any affect on insulin?

[nisser]

lol get your panties out of those knots.

Yeah...from real life experience I ****ing know that a serving of fish won't have the same ****ing insulin response as a serving of ****ing white ass pasta. If you doubt that, then I have nothing more to say.

[5151]

lol get your panties out of those knots.

Yeah...from real life experience I ****ing know that a serving of fish won't have the same ****ing insulin response as a serving of ****ing white ass pasta. If you doubt that, then I have nothing more to say.

it's amazing how easily you miss the point. my original contention was that you don't need a bunch of carbs to get a huge insulin response at any point and protein on it's own will impact insulin and you said it wouldn't. you disagreed with the first study so i said okay and showed you a few more and gave you the MOA, at this point you've gone back to arguing with the first study that was about 15 posts ago. you've provided no contrary evidence except for asking for more shit i provided you. id love for you to prove me wrong but saying the same shit over and over is a waste of your time and mine. show me something saying protein can't impact insulin.