I know people hate oral questions

[mickeysmith]

Here is the question: Why is taking 20mg dbol and 30mg Win worst than taking 50mg or dbol or 50 or win?

Wouldn't it cut down on the possibility of Gyno and keep water down without droping your test?

Or what would be wrong with one week 40dbol then one week 50 win and so on for 6 weeks (as far as health goes)? Why would this be worst than just 6 weeks of one or the other???

Courious...

[mickeysmith]

Sorry that should read
"Why is taking 20mg dbol and 30mg Win worst than taking 50mg of dbol or 50 of win?"

[hyperlite32]

I am curious for answers for this as well. D-bol and Winstrol are both "methylated" so, I would geuss that 50mg of a methyl is 50mg. Anyone else?

[tex]

honestly 20mg of both is nothing..............your liver is resilient but do you really wanna test it out........

[Kronis]

i didn't think it was

[buildinthaskinnys]

Heres a better question, why would you want to take 1 drug thats famous for water weight gains and bulking and another thats famous for drying you out and cutting at the same time? take the needle in tha ass like a real man and use a test base, if you are using a heavy ester like enathanate take
25 mg dbol a day for the first 2-3 weeks, you will explode with growth, take your winstrol towards the end of the cycle, there has been reports that winstol helps to lower estrogen but I dont think there is any factual evidence on this.


what are your goals? do you have pct lined up?

[Dk]

I dont see anyone saying there is a problem with it? haha.

did i miss something

the real problem comes up if your askng about this as a cycle by itself

[mickeysmith]

I have Nolva and Clomid for PCT

I am running an oral only. I'm not interested in getting huge. I just want to gain about 15 solid pounds after the water is dropped.

Dbol does add water wait but that's not the end result... you loose that anyway and keep only the muscle so why not take win intermittently?

The win will keep bloat down and keep test levels high at the same time
And the dbol will keep my joints from grinding.

I did M1T first (4 weeks) at 30mg a day. I gained 23 pounds did PCT and kept 18 after one month.

I have the dbol and the win and more PCT (but not enough to split them up and do two PCT's)

I'm not afraid of the pin but I'm not interested in that much size... just a few more solid pounds to keep.

Hope that helps.

[Dk]

I have Nolva and Clomid for PCT

I am running an oral only. I'm not interested in getting huge. I just want to gain about 15 solid pounds after the water is dropped.

Dbol does add water wait but that's not the end result... you loose that anyway and keep only the muscle so why not take win intermittently?

The win will keep bloat down and keep test levels high at the same time
And the dbol will keep my joints from grinding.

I did M1T first (4 weeks) at 30mg a day. I gained 23 pounds did PCT and kept 18 after one month.

I have the dbol and the win and more PCT (but not enough to split them up and do two PCT's)

I'm not afraid of the pin but I'm not interested in that much size... just a few more solid pounds to keep.

Hope that helps.

i can assure you adding 400-500mg of injectable test isnt gonna make you to big for your own liking, you dont just do one cycle and get "to huge"

[KINE]

dbol and an AI

[gustavo77]

I have Nolva and Clomid for PCT

I am running an oral only. I'm not interested in getting huge. I just want to gain about 15 solid pounds after the water is dropped.

Dbol does add water wait but that's not the end result... you loose that anyway and keep only the muscle so why not take win intermittently?

The win will keep bloat down and keep test levels high at the same time
And the dbol will keep my joints from grinding.

I did M1T first (4 weeks) at 30mg a day. I gained 23 pounds did PCT and kept 18 after one month.

I have the dbol and the win and more PCT (but not enough to split them up and do two PCT's)

I'm not afraid of the pin but I'm not interested in that much size... just a few more solid pounds to keep.

Hope that helps.

You gained 18lbs and now want to gain 15 more but you are not looking to get huge?? what do you weigh??

D-bol and winny together makes no sense...and is a terrible choice for a cycle..

[mickeysmith]

I'm 5'10
212
about 20% BF

The dbol and win is the last thing I'll buy. I'd like to gain a good amount and if I could keep 15 from these two then that would be great.

I'm pretty close to where I want to be so now I'm jsut wondering if they should be done seperately or if they could be done intermitantly which would save me on PCT - that's all.

I may do a clen and ephedra cycle later to trim but that would be the absolute end of it.

I used to be 210 15% BF and I got injured so I just wanted to get back to what I was before I got hurt. It seems now like I'm fairly close to that.

I'm no expert (at is clear I'm sure)... but I hear this "test is best" and "orals are crap" and "orals will kill your liver" stuff all the time. But I don't need test for what I want, and couldn't afford it anyway. I'm not interested in injections and I don't buy it that orals don't work (In fact I'm proof that my body at least responded extreamly well to them). I get that it's hard on you to do more than one oral at once (but that seems to be based soley on the idea that people continue to take the larger amount of both compounds.

So I'd just like to know from some more knowledgable pep's how it could possibly be more dangerous to do lower doses side by side (or one 1 week and one the next) than it would be to jsut do 50 of one until it's gone and then 50 of the other.

It seems silly at first but remember much of the dbol weight is just water but you still keep the actual muscle you gain. Doing the two together would be like adding an AI but with the added benifit that win wouldn't block estrogen but would limit the negative sides of dbol while still increaing testosterone.

So again I'm asking, how and why would it be more dangerous?

[buildinthaskinnys]

People always say that orals are so harsh and all that bullshit, but wheres the evidence? where are the guys that can say they got tested and their liver values were though the roof? where are the jaundice victims?

If a person does an adequate amount no more and no less than what you need they will have no problems unless they might be genetically disposed to this.

look back to the oldtimers, like zane , arnold, larry scott, d-bol was a staple of their diet back then and they are still healthy today and look great for their age. how do you guys think the whole "breakfast of champions" thing got started?

[ironwill]

I like oral questions a lot.....Like...
" excuse me ironwill would you like a blowjob" :flagC
Those questions make me warm and fuzzy....

[Big D]

I have Nolva and Clomid for PCT

I am running an oral only. I'm not interested in getting huge. I just want to gain about 15 solid pounds after the water is dropped.

Dbol does add water wait but that's not the end result... you loose that anyway and keep only the muscle so why not take win intermittently?

The win will keep bloat down and keep test levels high at the same time
And the dbol will keep my joints from grinding.

I did M1T first (4 weeks) at 30mg a day. I gained 23 pounds did PCT and kept 18 after one month.

I have the dbol and the win and more PCT (but not enough to split them up and do two PCT's)

I'm not afraid of the pin but I'm not interested in that much size... just a few more solid pounds to keep.

Hope that helps.

LOL what do you expect if you take 500mg of test/week your gonna look like a huge monster hahaha... if you want to gain 15 pounds of clean muscle ( wich will be hard to do with your dbol and winny cycle ) your better off taking test instead of orals all you need to do is take 2 shots a week. and your gains will be much better

[mickeysmith]

"test is best" I get it. But that still has nothing to do with the question.

I sounds like most people don't think it's any more dangerous so... I think I will try and do 20mg dbol for my morning workout and 20mg Win for my evening workout for a couple of days and see how I feel.

Thanks, -Mick

[tex]

no way in hell you are gonna gain 15 lbs of lbm from a dbol and winny cycle. and lose 5% bf.....you shouldnt even be thinking about a cycle with dbol in it with 20% bf........double up and do 50mg of each and make sure to take pics of your hot new tits and crippled tendons ;) test is not more expensive than either of those orals........





I'm 5'10
212
about 20% BF

The dbol and win is the last thing I'll buy. I'd like to gain a good amount and if I could keep 15 from these two then that would be great.

I'm pretty close to where I want to be so now I'm jsut wondering if they should be done seperately or if they could be done intermitantly which would save me on PCT - that's all.

I may do a clen and ephedra cycle later to trim but that would be the absolute end of it.

I used to be 210 15% BF and I got injured so I just wanted to get back to what I was before I got hurt. It seems now like I'm fairly close to that.

I'm no expert (at is clear I'm sure)... but I hear this "test is best" and "orals are crap" and "orals will kill your liver" stuff all the time. But I don't need test for what I want, and couldn't afford it anyway. I'm not interested in injections and I don't buy it that orals don't work (In fact I'm proof that my body at least responded extreamly well to them). I get that it's hard on you to do more than one oral at once (but that seems to be based soley on the idea that people continue to take the larger amount of both compounds.

So I'd just like to know from some more knowledgable pep's how it could possibly be more dangerous to do lower doses side by side (or one 1 week and one the next) than it would be to jsut do 50 of one until it's gone and then 50 of the other.

It seems silly at first but remember much of the dbol weight is just water but you still keep the actual muscle you gain. Doing the two together would be like adding an AI but with the added benifit that win wouldn't block estrogen but would limit the negative sides of dbol while still increaing testosterone.

So again I'm asking, how and why would it be more dangerous?

[mickeysmith]

This is just a follow up to my two posts for those rare people that were actually interested.

1) I did not run the dbol and win together (did oral only's, one PCT and then the other, then PCT and cut).

2) I did run the last 4 days of M1T on off days (huge strength gains on those days).

3) I also ran Clen during PCT (don't listen to those fools that wont use it on PCT. IT HELPS A LOT to help you keep it! And it puts you strength through the roof more than Dbol the first day you take it)

4) I started at 194 and a little over 20% body fat. I ended up at 198lb with 12% body fat (before cutting I was 217lbs and about 22-25% BF) This difference is unbelievable.

5) Bench is still up 45lbs, squat 30lbs (both leg extensions and leg curls nearly doubled!)

6) Just 10 more clean pounds to go and I am back to where I was before I got injured. And even though on these North American boards people are against oral only runs (very much M1T) the M1T was my greatest choice. (If they kill please find me the bodies because I only found 7 cases... out of HOW MANY OUT THERE?). Perhaps it was just my genetics and muscle memory (that is always possible) but it (M1T) ruled (I could do each muscle group 2X a week and never get sore)!

7) Liver is good (though it did take a beating from the D (not so much the M1T).

There you have it. Some people were right, some were wrong. I thank you all and I hope this info helps. (By the way from my research 20 or D and 30 of win is healthier than 50 of Dbol but not 50 of win - just an FYI - for those that disagreed FIND THE EVADENCE and NOT just what everyone else on this board thinks).

Just as an aside I should say that most people here just repeat what others here say but few seem to look for the research. Most don't even answer the question but just parrot the last guy. "Do test" "don't do orals"... bla...bla...bla but basically everywhere in Europe I got the opposite advise with the documents to go with it. I checked with so many other sites, medical journals and other people that it drove me nuts to hear some of the "experts" copy each others crap without reason, but in the end it turned out that some of the "experts" were right and some were dead wrong (at least for me).

Thanks again and good luck to all of you. I'm off to O'Natural from here on out. That last 10lbs should come in about a year or year and a half I think.

Blessings, don't get hurt, don't get caught, and read the medical info before listening to people rant.

-Mick

[spinalcolum]

This is just a follow up to my two posts for those rare people that were actually interested.

1) I did not run the dbol and win together (did oral only's, one PCT and then the other, then PCT and cut).

2) I did run the last 4 days of M1T on off days (huge strength gains on those days).

3) I also ran Clen during PCT (don't listen to those fools that wont use it on PCT. IT HELPS A LOT to help you keep it! And it puts you strength through the roof more than Dbol the first day you take it)

4) I started at 194 and a little over 20% body fat. I ended up at 198lb with 12% body fat (before cutting I was 217lbs and about 22-25% BF) This difference is unbelievable.

5) Bench is still up 45lbs, squat 30lbs (both leg extensions and leg curls nearly doubled!)

6) Just 10 more clean pounds to go and I am back to where I was before I got injured. And even though on these North American boards people are against oral only runs (very much M1T) the M1T was my greatest choice. (If they kill please find me the bodies because I only found 7 cases... out of HOW MANY OUT THERE?). Perhaps it was just my genetics and muscle memory (that is always possible) but it (M1T) ruled (I could do each muscle group 2X a week and never get sore)!

7) Liver is good (though it did take a beating from the D (not so much the M1T).

There you have it. Some people were right, some were wrong. I thank you all and I hope this info helps. (By the way from my research 20 or D and 30 of win is healthier than 50 of Dbol but not 50 of win - just an FYI - for those that disagreed FIND THE EVADENCE and NOT just what everyone else on this board thinks).

Just as an aside I should say that most people here just repeat what others here say but few seem to look for the research. Most don't even answer the question but just parrot the last guy. "Do test" "don't do orals"... bla...bla...bla but basically everywhere in Europe I got the opposite advise with the documents to go with it. I checked with so many other sites, medical journals and other people that it drove me nuts to hear some of the "experts" copy each others crap without reason, but in the end it turned out that some of the "experts" were right and some were dead wrong (at least for me).

Thanks again and good luck to all of you. I'm off to O'Natural from here on out. That last 10lbs should come in about a year or year and a half I think.

Blessings, don't get hurt, don't get caught, and read the medical info before listening to people rant.

-Mick

You should listen to people on this board ,,bud.. Something tells me you wont though.

[rufusrocks]

bud you got some bad advice. the people here are the real deal. dbol and winny like big macs and heart disease, no sense. best board on the globe here, better to listen before speaking up.

Gus thanks for stepping up on this.

[HeavyD]

bud you got some bad advice. the people here are the real deal. dbol and winny like big macs and heart disease, no sense. best board on the globe here, better to listen before speaking up.

Gus thanks for stepping up on this.

i second this.....maybe everyone is not an expert, but these guys are right dont do it!

and if you are worried about loseing the money, get 2 vials of test, with dbol at start, then winny at end


look i was like you i spent $3000 on pro-hormones, M1T&4AD, but i was so depressed on M and it made myback,sides hurt like shit. its a waste.

you are trying to use AAS like prohormones, one for bulk, then one for cut. this shit is way different.....dont do it

[Iwant2Grow]

i second this.....maybe everyone is not an expert, but these guys are right dont do it!

and if you are worried about loseing the money, get 2 vials of test, with dbol at start, then winny at end


look i was like you i spent $3000 on pro-hormones, M1T&4AD, but i was so depressed on M and it made myback,sides hurt like shit. its a waste.

you are trying to use AAS like prohormones, one for bulk, then one for cut. this shit is way different.....dont do it




right on - i couldn't have typed it better !