Contemplating HGH...

[BigDane]

Hey guys/ladies....

1st post here at CB. Some of you may remember me from back in the day at nexus. Been on a kinda long hiatus here :) I still post there periodically and maintain contact with a few bros. Notice a lot of the same people over here now so hope you're all doing well.

Anyways....Im contemplating starting a long overdue cycle. Its been over 4 years since ive touched anything other than creatine/protein. I've just been having really crappy workouts lately and feel like I need a boost. Everything hurts where it shouldn't, joints not muscles. Fighting through some nagging bicep tendonitis thats making every workout a chore, strength is down and my recovery rate is much slower than it used to be. Not having the greatest sleeps now either and Im feeling like my natural test is low. I think I need to get it tested before I start anything. Damn it sucks getting old. Anyways.....

Bit of history:
Im 32
6'2" 230lbs about 12-14% (probably much closer to 14% right now lol)

Done about 3 proper cycles in the past and a couple half assed ones before I knew any better but as mentioned earlier its been about 4 yrs since I've touched anything and Ive never done GH.

My goals are to shed some fat, become more vascular and harden up. Would also like to get my strength back up as its taken a bit of a hit due to the reasons I listed above. Im not looking to get huge but a bit more size would be nice. I guess that will probably go hand in hand with the strength. Hoping that the GH will also get rid of my aches, pains and injuries, help me recover faster and just make me feel better overall.

Im contemplating something along these lines:

2-4IU GH per day for 6 months (maybe longer if Im liking it) along with about 400mg test for the first 10-12 weeks.

Right now Im working out 4-5 times per week in the afternoons. Usually get up every weekday morning and do 45 mins cardio on an empty stomach.

Have a few questions:

Will I notice much of a difference between 2iu, 3iu, or 4iu? Obviously longer duration is better but just how dose sensitive is this stuff??

Is the test necessary and how much of a difference will it make? those that can chime in who've done GH on its own and also with test id love to hear the comparisons.

Considering my goals, what is the best sort of diet to follow when doing something like this? Im eating pretty healthily right now. Plenty of lean protein, fruit, veges and low glycemic carbs along with protein shakes 3x daily. Been following this now since the new year. over the holidays was a completely different story :)

Can GH cause gyno? Ive been kinda prone in the past. Already had to have one surgery and dont really want to go through another one. Obviously the test, if I choose to run it could be an issue. What anti e's if any would you recommend for this cycle? Arimidex with nolva and maybe some dostinex on hand in case I run into prolactin issues???

Would you say this would be a good time for me to try GH. Im not in the best shape i've ever been but I want to get back to it and Im having a real tough time getting there. Im hoping this will help.

Thanks in advance for any input. Im sure Ill have more questions as a few of these get answered.

[gustavo77]

First off, welcome to CBB. Good to have you here.

I think what you have planned is excellent with regards to your goals... At 32, your body will be still releasing some GH but it is definitely declining. For this reason, i think you benefit GH. It will definitely get you leaner, improve recovery and quality of sleep...which will equate to better more sustained muscle gains in the future. I suggest starting at 2iu, injected first thing in the morning, then increase it 1iu each month till you reach your targeted dose of 4iu. Run it for a minimum of 6 month, preferably 1 year. 4iu will be a very effective dose for your goals.

Regarding testosterone. I absolutely think it is essential.. GH and test work so well together, that i think that you really never need to use any other AAS.

Your diet should be loaded with lean protein, veg and carbs. Eating carbs only before your workouts and immediately PWO. 4-5 whole food meals and 2-4 low carb shakes is the way to go.

The only thing i would recommend is increasing the test a little bit...At your level of experience 500-600mg of test per week for 12-16 weeks would be much better.

I would not be too concerned about gyno on GH....prolactin levels have been shown to increase on GH, but prolactin gyno is very rare with GH use. That said i would have some dost and adex on hand for your cycle with the test..no need for nolva with adex use.

Good luck!

[BigDane]

Thanks Gustavo for the welcome and the input on my post.

I had a few more questions, maybe a few other could chime in...

Starting with 2iu/day is probably a good idea. That way I can see how my body responds to a lower dose and if side effects will be an issue.

The reason I was planning to go with 400mg/week test is because the most I have ever run in past cycles is 500mg/wk. This was also almost 5 years ago so I don't really want to hit the system too hard initially. And as I said, Im not really looking to get huge here.

At this dose of test, being gyno prone, should I automatically run adex maybe .5 eod or should I hold of and wait to see if i have any issues?

Any supplements I should take or avoid while doing this cycle? Right now Im using taking a yohimbe based burner before my morning cardio, noexplode, cellmass and l-arginine before lifting and waxy maize, arginine, creatine post workout, whey throughout the day and a bit of zinc before bed. The plan is to continue this, anything i should add or take out???

Im also taking proscar, quater tab a day. Can I continue this?

[drdnj]

First off, welcome to CBB. Good to have you here.

I think what you have planned is excellent with regards to your goals... At 32, your body will be still releasing some GH but it is definitely declining. For this reason, i think you benefit GH. It will definitely get you leaner, improve recovery and quality of sleep...which will equate to better more sustained muscle gains in the future. I suggest starting at 2iu, injected first thing in the morning, then increase it 1iu each month till you reach your targeted dose of 4iu. Run it for a minimum of 6 month, preferably 1 year. 4iu will be a very effective dose for your goals.

Regarding testosterone. I absolutely think it is essential.. GH and test work so well together, that i think that you really never need to use any other AAS.

Your diet should be loaded with lean protein, veg and carbs. Eating carbs only before your workouts and immediately PWO. 4-5 whole food meals and 2-4 low carb shakes is the way to go.

The only thing i would recommend is increasing the test a little bit...At your level of experience 500-600mg of test per week for 12-16 weeks would be much better.

I would not be too concerned about gyno on GH....prolactin levels have been shown to increase on GH, but prolactin gyno is very rare with GH use. That said i would have some dost and adex on hand for your cycle with the test..no need for nolva with adex use.

Good luck!

Well Put Gustavo!

[Praetorian]

Hi BD, first off you really need to define your goals. Looking to shed some fat and lean out as well as gaining some size are two completely different things. Either you decide to gain or you decide to lean out...its one or the other. The next thing is 2-4iu will not illicit muscle growth from GH. It will assist in keeping you somewhat lean if your diet is tight but is really unnecessary if you are trying to put on just a bit of size. To illicit growth youll need more in the range of 8-10 iu a day minimum. Thus gh is not an inexpensive proposition as it also need to be run for some time ...ie months not weeks for best results. The amount of test you suggested is too low for someone of your height and weight and cycle history. 400mg per is not i repeat not easier on your body or less side effect prone then 500mg per week or 750mg per week. It will still shut down your HPTA and thus you will beleft with less then optimal amounts for growth. If you are that concerend about it and as you say not looking for alot of size then there really is no reason to run aas at all. As I said you really need to specify what you want. As well gh is a very expensive compound to use for anti-inflammatory purposes. If you have these issues I would recommend adequan and pennsaid as they are designed exactly for those purposes and ar much cheaper. To answer your question no gh will not cause gyno and unless you are predisposed to it neither will 400-500 mg test. I would suggest you avoid arimidex as it willplay havoc with your lipid profile mainly HDL levels...not good. Nolvadex is good to have on hand and 10 mg daily can be used to keep lipid profiles in check. Dostinex is unnecessary.
Here is what I would suggest being that you want to lean out with a little added muscle.
First if you are going to run test than do it with the best possible risk to benefit ratio. 400 mg per week is not that...i would suggest 500-750mg weekly . At the same time run a clean but gaining diet approx 50g pro + 40g carbs + 15g fat per meal for six meals. Train the basics and heavy as you can for 5-8 reps on most exercises 2-3 sets max. Run this cycle for 8-10 weeks. Once you do that its time to lean out. Drop the carbs an up the fat slightly as in a keto diet and add 2-4iu gh per day. Start cardio once per day at 45 minutes adding time each week. Keep the test dosage the same. If your diet is tight and training intense along with the cardio and gh you will lean out dramatically and keep all your muscle as well as the few lbs you gained on the initial gaining phase. This will keep your gh usage short and be much more affordable as well as allow you to attain both your goals of muscle gain and leaning out.
I would suggest test prop for this situation because of the short half life.
A long ester test will take too long to raise androgen levels on this cycle.
P

[BigDane]

thanks for the input praetorian...

I guess my main goal here is to lean out and to get back that feeling of "well being" thats been missing for a while now. My view is that if I can get rid of my nagging injuries, joint pain and sleep better that in turn will lead to better workouts, strength gains and ultimately a bit more size. Won't a combo of test and GH work well synergistically to help me attain this? Ive been eating well for a while now and trying to work out hard but I've hit a wall.

Im getting the the age now where I don't just want to be running high doses of AAS. Ive done it in the past and although the gains are decent they aren't always quality and I also find that when I push up my dose of test that I don't feel all that great. 400-500mg/week is still a lot more than my body is producing now is it not? I have a feeling that my levels are lower than they should be so wouldn't 400-500 be a nice boost? As noted, I do plan on going to get them checked before I start anything here.

I've read up a lot about hgh, guys have been running low doses of it on its own and getting nice results with it. I realize its pricey, but Im willing to pay a bit more cash and commit to my training and diet to attain the quality gains I want over the long term.

I understand the point you're trying to make but I just don't think Im at the stage of my life where I want to be shooting 750 test a week. Yes, I understand that 2iu/day of GH will not illicit muscle growth but shouldn't it help with the problems that are preventing me from growing right now? This coupled with the test and a solid diet regime should give me some quality gains should it not?

Can you tell me a bit more about those anti inflamitory drugs you mentioned. Did a quick search. ones an arthritic drug for animals??? Ive never heard of either of them before. Thanks

[Praetorian]

thanks for the input praetorian...

...

I guess my main goal here is to lean out and to get back that feeling of "well being" thats been missing for a while now. My view is that if I can get rid of my nagging injuries, joint pain and sleep better that in turn will lead to better workouts, strength gains and ultimately a bit more size. Won't a combo of test and GH work well synergistically to help me attain this? Ive been eating well for a while now and trying to work out hard but I've hit a wall.

FYI CAPS ARE ONLY USED TO SEPARATE MY COMMENTS FROM YOURS...YOU ARE SAYING ONE THING BUT YOUR GOALS ARE NOT IN LINE WITH YOUR THINKING. YOU WAN TO LEAN OUT A BIT AND HEAL SOME INJURIES TO FEEL GOOD BUT YOU NEED TEST AND GH FOR THIS??? THAT MAKES NO SENSE. ALSO THE IDEA OF TAKING 400MG TEST AS OPPOSED TO 500-750 IS EASIER ON THE BODY OR WILL MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER ALSO IS FALSE. FOR YOUR GOALS YOU DONT NEED TEST OR GH JUST A DECENT DIET, TRAINING PROGRAM AN SOME ASSISTANCE WITH HEALING ANY INJURIES. AS I SAID BEFORE IF YOU WANT TO GO DOWN THE AAS ROAD THATS FINE...THEN DO IT CORRECTLY AND DO WHAT WILL BENEFIT YOU MOST WITH AS LITTLE SIDES AS POSSIBLE. WITH 500MG TEST AND 2IU GH COMBINED WITH A GOOD DIET, CARDIO AND TRAINING YOU WILL LEAN OUT, KEEP MOST OF YOUR MUSCLE AND SHOULD FEEL BETTER. BU THE EMPHASIS YOU ARE PUTTING ON THE DRUGS IS MISPLACED...IT SHOULD BE PUT ON THE DIET AND TRAINING AND CARDIO. AS I SAID ALL YOUR GOALS CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED WITHOUT USING TEST OR GH...YOU CAN USE THEM BUT THEY WONTWORK MIRACLES. ADEQUAN IS USED BE VETS FOR HORSES OR DOGS. IT WORKS WONDERFULLY ON HUMANS AND HAS BEEN USED BY ATHLETES FOR MANY YEARS NOW. IT BASICALLY REJUVENATES THE JOINT IN QUESTION. PENNSAID IS A TOPICAL AGENT DESIGNED FOR PEOPLE WITH ARTHRITIS IN THE KNEES BUT HAS BEEN USED SUCCESSFULLY BY ATHLETES ON ALL JOINTS WITH ANY TENDONITIS ISSUES ETC BOTH OF THESE COMBINED WILL WORK MUCH BETTER ON YOUR INJURIES THAN GH...IT WILL HELP SLIGHTLY BUT NOT TO THE EFFECT OF THESE. ADEQUAN CAN BE ORDERED FROM THE US WITHOUT A SCRIPT. ASK YOUR DR FOR PENNSAID.

Im getting the the age now where I don't just want to be running high doses of AAS. Ive done it in the past and although the gains are decent they aren't always quality and I also find that when I push up my dose of test that I don't feel all that great. 400-500mg/week is still a lot more than my body is producing now is it not? I have a feeling that my levels are lower than they should be so wouldn't 400-500 be a nice boost? As noted, I do plan on going to get them checked before I start anything here. 500 IS THE MINIMUM I WOULD USEFOR DIETING TO MAINTAIN...TO GROW IS ANOTHER STORY.

I've read up a lot about hgh, guys have been running low doses of it on its own and getting nice results with it. I realize its pricey, but Im willing to pay a bit more cash and commit to my training and diet to attain the quality gains I want over the long term. RUNNING GH ALONE IS LIKE PUTTING AVIATION FUEL INTO A SUZUKI SWIFT...WASTE OF MONEY. VERY EXPENSIVE WAY TO LEAN OUT A BIT. YOU DONT NEED TO PAY MORE CASH....WHY NOT JUST COMMIT TO TRAINING, DIET AND CARDIO ANYWAY AND SAVE YOUR MONEY.

I understand the point you're trying to make but I just don't think Im at the stage of my life where I want to be shooting 750 test a week. Yes, I understand that 2iu/day of GH will not illicit muscle growth but shouldn't it help with the problems that are preventing me from growing right now? This coupled with the test and a solid diet regime should give me some quality gains should it not? AS I SAID THERE ARE BETTER, LESS EXPENSIVE COMPUNDS TO DEAL WITH YOUR INJURIES, GH IS UNNECESSARY AND WONT HELP AS MUCH.

Can you tell me a bit more about those anti inflamitory drugs you mentioned. Did a quick search. ones an arthritic drug for animals??? Ive never heard of either of them before. Thanks


P

[Mr.Freeze]

Welcome aboard :)