Wha you guys think of my cycle?

[methadone]

what up bros, this is what my next cycle is going to look like, im thinkin. this will be my third cycle. calorie intake will be at 4000. the goal here is to obviously bulk.....

stats are, 24 years old, 5'9 190lbs 11-12% bf

1-4 dianabol 40mg ed
1-12 Test e 500mg
1-11 Deca Durabolin 400mg
3-12 HCG 250UI 2x week
1-12 .5mg Arimidex ed

PCT
----
day 1 80mg
1 week 40mg nolvadex
3 weeks 20mg nolvadex

what does everyone think?

[pseclint]

I think calgary is a nice place to live......

cycle looks deece

[methadone]

yeah its not bad bro, i just moved here from toronto

it looks decent? what changes would you make? i have a bunch of trenbolone acetate i have still that my buddy flaked on that i was thinkin of going 8-12 on
but the dudes on elitefitness said to leave it for the next cycle

[pseclint]

wut the hell is in a recovery test stack? Trib?

[methadone]

wut the hell is in a recovery test stack? Trib?

nah man, its these 3 products that this company put out..do you ever go on elitefitness.com ?

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/new-post-cycle-therapy-2008-a-582357.html skip towards the bottom of the initial post

a lot of people are switching over to that instead of the traditional clomid and nolva. a lot of them like it alot, say it works really good, without the clomid side effects.

im willing to give it a try...

[Musclehead]

Didn't think people used clomid anymore......

[Kronis]

nah man, its these 3 products that this company put out..do you ever go on elitefitness.com ?

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/new-post-cycle-therapy-2008-a-582357.html skip towards the bottom of the initial post

a lot of people are switching over to that instead of the traditional clomid and nolva. a lot of them like it alot, say it works really good, without the clomid side effects.

im willing to give it a try...

let us know how it goes. I'm sure PP is good stuff but the only place I ever hear about them is on forums they sponsor.

[methadone]

**** bro, i know what you mean man...i was very skeptical but a bunch of the regulars there started doin it and liking it, i guess there's only one way to find out....

musclehead, was that sarcasmn...or what do you use?

[methadone]

****, ill just stick to my nolva pct

[waderow]

i take clomid. I did a 24 weeker and after the clomid, I was top notch.

[waderow]

nah man, its these 3 products that this company put out..do you ever go on elitefitness.com ?

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/new-post-cycle-therapy-2008-a-582357.html skip towards the bottom of the initial post

a lot of people are switching over to that instead of the traditional clomid and nolva. a lot of them like it alot, say it works really good, without the clomid side effects.

im willing to give it a try...


Elite members,

I’d like to present to you an all new protocol that will allow you to cycle your anabolic steroids, get clean, and maintain your gains and youthful sex life. This article will present the proper way to use HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - , as well as provide you with the perfect stack for PCT - post cycle therapy - . (just checkout the special offer at the end of the article)

If you’ve been studying PCT - post cycle therapy - protocols you’ve probably read about taking anti-estrogens to protect against and fat gain, while taking SERMS such as Clomid or Nolvadex to try and jump start your Testosterone production (while crossing your fingers and preparing for months of depression, deflating muscles and a pitiful sex life). But today, we’ve got something new for you, and if you read this article you can say goodbye to pitiful PCT - post cycle therapy - , and change PCT - post cycle therapy - into a time when you continue to make gains while maintaining the sexual power of a star.

The goal of PCT - post cycle therapy - is to get off steroids, while reclaiming your testosterone and libido without hurting your liver or cholesterol value – and this is exactly what I’m going to show you. But first, we are going to take a look at the major problems of the currently por PCT - post cycle therapy - regimens.

Current PCT - post cycle therapy - Problems

Mega-Dosing of SERMs –

There is no doubt that SERMs (Selective Estrogen Receptor modulators) such as Clomid and Nolvadex stimulate testosterone production. Unfortunately, the body can mistake these drugs as estrogens in certain bodily tissues. That’s right, these “recovery” drugs can actually rob you of your masculinity in a very devastating way. For instance, men on Clomid will spend days crying over old breakup’s, while becoming completely unable to perform sexually. This is because a high dose of Clomid acts like estrogen in the brain, and makes you feel like an emotionally distressed pregnant woman! People usually blame these symptoms on low testosterone from their cycle (not realizing that the very drugs they are taking to increase their Testosterone are also contributing to the symptoms they are trying to avoid!). What’s worse is that these selective estrogen receptor modulator’s can actually stress your liver (the last thing you want after a cycle), while hurting your eyesight due to their ocular toxicity. Besides, if these drugs actually worked that well you wouldn’t hear about guys complaining of a “low libido” or a “limp ” during PCT - post cycle therapy - .

Since these SERMs can help stimulate testosterone production, we will keep them in our PCT - post cycle therapy - , but at a much lower dose to avoid their possible side effects.

Over Use of Anti-Estrogens –

Aromatase inhibitors (aromatase inhibitor’s) such as Arimidex, Aromasin, and Formestane are powerful tools for reducing estrogen conversion from heavily aromatizing drugs such as Testosterone or Dianabol. While these drugs are sometimes useful during cycle, they are not necessary during PCT - post cycle therapy - . Remember, it is easy to overuse aromatase inhibitor’s and overuse has very serious side effects. Extremely low estrogen will give you joint pain, make your prone to heart disease, and make your sex drive plummet. This hurts your long and short term recovery and does not benefit you. Don’t forget, normal levels of estrogen are necessary to support libido, muscle recovery, and testicular function.

Improper use of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - –

When you’re on steroids, your body stops production of its own testosterone production. Essentially, your brain cuts off the signal from the brain to the testes, and your testes stop producing testosterone. Once this happens, your testes shutdown, start to shrink, and become unresponsive to stimulation from the brain (desensitized). This is the reason why some guys may never recovery from a steroid cycle -- because the testes became too desensitized. Think of it this way, if you ignored your girlfriend for 12 weeks, do you think she would still be around on week 13? She would be long gone, with a new dude, and you would be high and dry!

Right now you’re probably thinking “Well I can just shoot HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - at the end of the cycle to kick start my testosterone production…” Sorry, but once your testes are neglected, they don’t like to come back full strength no matter how much HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - you take. Do you think getting on your knees and crying for your girlfriend to come back after 12 weeks of neglect will work? Probably not, so why not just make a small effort to keep your testes active and in the game during cycle?

On-cycle-HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - is what you need. A small dose will keep “the boys” running as normal during cycle, so they can jump back on track when you come clean. Plus, when you use HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - during the cycle, you don’t need to use it for PCT - post cycle therapy - . This helps you recover faster than you ever thought possible. Just keep reading…

Getting down to business

So, if you shouldn’t use mega doses of SERMs, powerful aromatase inhibitor’s or HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - for PCT - post cycle therapy - then what should you use?

On cycle protocol –

The biggest component of a fast recovery is keeping the testes active during the cycle. This is accomplished by taking HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - during cycle, not after like many people think. On cycle HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - forces your testes to continue to produce testosterone as they normally would. The trick with on-cycle-HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - use is to avoid using too much, too frequently (which can desensitize your testes). It’s important to use just enough to stimulate the testes to produce the same amount of testosterone they normally would.

For on-cycle-HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - , I recommend 250 iu’s of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - taken twice a week from the start of your 3rd week of the cycle until two weeks before the steroids or pro-hormones clear your system (be sure to check the half lives and clearance time of the Steroids / Pro-Hormones you use as these widely vary).

During the cycle, take a moderate dose of an aromatase inhibitor (aromatase inhibitor) as needed, but remember, too much or too little are both detrimental. While using HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - on cycle I recommend 10mg/ED of Aromasin or 1mg/ED Arimidex to keep estrogen in control.

Transition Phase -

As the anabolic steroids’s begin to clear the system you enter the transition phase. During this time, you drop HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - , and begin tapering down the dose of your anti-estrogens. If you are using a drug with a long acting ester like enanthate then you would take your last shot of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - during your last shot of enanthate, since it has about a 2-3 week clearance time. If you’re ending the cycle with a fast acting oral steroid, then you would stop the HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - about 2 weeks before your last oral dose.

Remember, you must discontinue HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - before you start PCT - post cycle therapy - . HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - acts in place of lh - leutenizing hormone - which is the hormone sent from the brain to the testes to make the testes produce Testosterone. During the two week period after you discontinue HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - use, your testes are becoming re-sensitized to the body’s lh - leutenizing hormone - signal. This allows your testes to start producing testosterone naturally as soon as the steroids clear the system.

PCT - post cycle therapy - protocol -

The steroids, HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - and anti-estrogens are now completely out of your system. You don’t need powerful aromatase inhibitor's for PCT - post cycle therapy - , since you have almost nothing in your body that will convert to estrogen. Instead, you should choose compounds that can keep estrogen at a healthy level while encouraging your body’s natural testosterone production. What you need is something that will surge your natural lh - leutenizing hormone - levels without crushing estrogen to the ground. You also need something to reduce cortisol, which is a nasty hormone that can breakdown your muscle and reduce your testosterone levels.

http://www.primordialperformance.com/images/newsletter_graphics/Dec 08 TRS/EndoAmp.jpg

For suppressing cortisol I suggest supplementing with 800mg of phosphatidylserine (PS), found in EndoAmp. PS is a very important phospholipid found within your cells which helps reduce stress related catabolism and cortisol release. As you may know, cortisol levels rapidly increase after exercise, but phosphatidylserine has been shown to blunt this effect and reduce the breakdown of muscle following a workout. Even worse, is that cortisol can lower testosterone by reducing the testes ability to produce Testosterone! This is the last thing a recovering steroid users wants for PCT - post cycle therapy - .

For testosterone stimulation, Clomid and Nolvadex can get the job done, but they can have side effects at higher doses, so we have to keep the dose low to avoid these toxic effects. 10mg/day of Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - or 25mg/day of Clomid would be the most you would want to take, since any more than this has never been proven to work any better for increasing testosterone.

To enhance testosterone production as much as possible, while supporting your health and sexual function you should supplement your PCT - post cycle therapy - with the topical cream Sustain Alpha (formerly known as Dermacrine Sustain). Blood tests have proven Sustain Alpha to be just as effective for restoring testosterone, but without the side effects of Clomid or Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - (Sustain has even been used successfully by itself for PCT - post cycle therapy - ). Best of all, Sustain Alpha is completely legal and natural. What makes it so effective is that the active ingredients are delivered directly to the blood stream, with an advanced topical delivery cream that pulls the ingredients through the skin.

http://www.primordialperformance.com/images/newsletter_graphics/Dec%2008%20GABA%20Sustain%20forum%20post/Sustain-Alpha.jpg]

Here are the three active components that make Sustain Alpha so effective –

1. Resveratrol (99% pure extract)
2. Benzoflavone (99% pure extract)
3. Volatile plant oil complex (Diallyl-disulfide, Clary Sage, Sandalwood)

All the active constituents work together synergistically to create a powerful surge in testosterone by causing the body to increase its ‘testosterone production signal’. More specifically, the active ingredients increase the secretion of luteinizing hormone (lh - leutenizing hormone - ) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - ) from the brain. lh - leutenizing hormone - is the hormone secreted from the brain which stimulates testosterone production from the testes, while FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - stimulates the testes to produce sperm. Increasing both of these “signal hormones” is critical for increasing testicular size and function, while simultaneously boosting testosterone production.

Blood test results have revealed that resveratrol and benzoflavone have a powerful effect on increasing lh - leutenizing hormone - /FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - , testosterone and sperm production. Studies with animals have shown resveratrol and benzoflavone dramatically increase fertility and mating frequency, which coincides with the feedback received from hundreds of satisfied customers. Other research has shown resveratrol and benzoflavone to support cardiovascular and blood vessel function – two great benefits for the male interested in improving his heart-health and erectile-health.

Resveratrol and benzoflavone are act as mild ‘anti-estrogens’ by blocking estrogen at the receptor, while also reducing conversion to estrogen. By controlling estrogen, you eliminate the risk of gynecomastia, fat depositing and further testicular shrinkage. However, Sustain Alpha wont overly suppress estrogen like many PCT - post cycle therapy - drugs or supplements, therefore estrogen is kept in an ideal range for optimum recovery. Remember, maintaining normal levels of estrogen is important for muscle growth, libido, and cholesterol health.

Sustain Alpha also utilizes aromatic volatile plant oils to further amplify the massive surge of testosterone. These oils contain high amounts of sesquiterpenes and diterpenes which stimulate lh - leutenizing hormone - & FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - release by absorbing through the nose upon inhalation during product application. That’s right, the oils evaporate, enter the nasal cavity, and immediately enter the brain by passing the nasal mucosa (they also pass through the skin). Once in the brain, they oxygenate the hypothalamus and up-regulate cAMP for increased lh - leutenizing hormone - & FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - secretion -- and it gets even better.

Until recently, it was assumed Sustain Alpha couldn’t possibly be any more effective. However, there is one limiting factor that bottlenecks Sustain from being maximally effective, and it has to do with testicular sensitivity. Let me explain…

You see, testosterone production is initiated by the activation of lh - leutenizing hormone - & FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - receptors in the testes. Yet, if you lack testicular sensitivity, then the lh - leutenizing hormone - & FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - signal won’t initiate testosterone production no matter how high your lh - leutenizing hormone - or FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - levels are. Therefore, it’s critically important to maintain testicular sensitivity, and this is precisely what Toco-8 was designed for.

http://www.primordialperformance.com/images/newsletter_graphics/Dec%2008%20GABA%20Sustain%20forum%20post/toco-8.jpg

Toco-8 is a powdered tocotrienol supplement designed to increase testicular sensitivity. When taken with Sustain Alpha, a powerful synergy occurs. By increasing testicular sensitivity, Toco-8 makes Sustain Alpha 3-4x more effective, thus allowing the testes to produce more testosterone than they ever could before. Research has also proven that Toco-8 can increase the effectiveness of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - by the same mechanism. Consider Toco-8 the beginning of a great testicular awakening – critical for maximizing the testosterone response from lh - leutenizing hormone - & FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - stimulation.

Fortunately, the only “side-effects” associated with Sustain Alpha and Toco-8 are the ones that make your wife happy or give your girlfriend something to brag about. Make no mistake, you will be a new man while using this testosterone boosting combination. Get ready for harder erections, more stamina, and the biggest loads of your life. But don’t take my word for it. Jump on Google or any major bodybuilding forum and put in a search, and you will see Sustain Alpha and Toco-8 are “the real deal”, backed by thousands of positive reviews.

Recap –

For the fastest possible recovery, use 250iu of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - during the cycle. After the cycle, for PCT - post cycle therapy - , you block cortisol with EndoAmp. Then, to safely block & control estrogen you stack a low dose of Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - or Clomid (10mg or 25mg ED) with Sustain Alpha and Toco-8. This synergistic combo is absolutely the single most powerful protocol for a truly successful PCT - post cycle therapy - . Just follow the table below for the proper use of these supplements according to your cycle –

http://www.primordialperformancetemp.com/images/stacking_guidlines.jpg

As I mentioned in the beginning of the article, we are offering a special offer for this PCT - post cycle therapy - stack. We’ve put together a 30-day stack of Sustain Alpha, Toco-8 and EndoAmp into one package deal -- the Testosterone Recovery Stack for only $119.99. (This stack saves your $15 off the regular price!)

http://www.primordialperformance.com/images/newsletter_graphics/Dec 08 TRS/TRS.jpg

Plus, as an exclusive deal for forum members, Primordial Performance is extending another 10% off on this Testosterone Recovery Stack! (To take 10% off your order just enter SPONSOR10 into the promotional code field during the final checkout page.)

So again…

You save $15 with the Testosterone Recovery Stack

Plus…

An additional 10% off with the code SPONSOR10

To take advantage of this offer, head over to Testosterone Support Supplements for Men. Health, Libido, Masculinity

Still undecided? Feel free to post your questions and comments here…

Thank you for supporting your local forum sponsor Primordial Performance!

-Pp

Direct contact info -

Call us – 1-800-568-2924
Email us – info@primordialperformance.com
Visit us – Testosterone Support Supplements for Men. Health, Libido, Masculinity

BTW, for those who need proof that Sustain, Toco-8 or EndoAmp are wonder supplements, just take a look at these results from satisfied EF members –

[Praetorian]

what up bros, this is what my next cycle is going to look like, im thinkin. this will be my third cycle. calorie intake will be at 4000. the goal here is to obviously bulk.....

stats are, 24 years old, 5'9 190lbs 11-12% bf

1-4 dianabol 40mg ed
1-12 Test e 500mg
1-11 Deca Durabolin 400mg
3-12 HCG 250UI 2x week
1-12 .5mg Arimidex ed

PCT
----
day 1 80mg
1 week 40mg nolvadex
3 weeks 20mg nolvadex

what does everyone think?

Run the dbol starting week 5...youll get a much better synergistic effect with the test e kicking in. You dont need hcg twice per week on a 12 week cycle...once is fine. The arimidex will drop your HDL levels through the floor as well as halt most of your gains...unless you have an existing gyno condition you shouldnt use it. If you do have existing gyno try nolvadex instead as it will also keep blood lipid profiles in line. Nolvadex for PCT is quite limited and not as effective as hcg with clomid. For better recovery use aromasin through the PCT and start with HCG for two weeks then clomid for three weeks and you are good. Dosages will depend on your age and cycle history.
P

[Big D]

I have an existing gyno problem, so you think nolva would help me out instead of adex ? what dosage of nolva would you recommend?

[Praetorian]

Elite members,

I’d like to present to you an all new protocol that will allow you to cycle your anabolic steroids, get clean, and maintain your gains and youthful sex life. This article will present the proper way to use HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - , as well as provide you with the perfect stack for PCT - post cycle therapy - . (just checkout the special offer at the end of the article)

If you’ve been studying PCT - post cycle therapy - protocols you’ve probably read about taking anti-estrogens to protect against and fat gain, while taking SERMS such as Clomid or Nolvadex to try and jump start your Testosterone production (while crossing your fingers and preparing for months of depression, deflating muscles and a pitiful sex life). But today, we’ve got something new for you, and if you read this article you can say goodbye to pitiful PCT - post cycle therapy - , and change PCT - post cycle therapy - into a time when you continue to make gains while maintaining the sexual power of a star.

The goal of PCT - post cycle therapy - is to get off steroids, while reclaiming your testosterone and libido without hurting your liver or cholesterol value – and this is exactly what I’m going to show you. But first, we are going to take a look at the major problems of the currently por PCT - post cycle therapy - regimens.

Current PCT - post cycle therapy - Problems

Mega-Dosing of SERMs –

There is no doubt that SERMs (Selective Estrogen Receptor modulators) such as Clomid and Nolvadex stimulate testosterone production. Unfortunately, the body can mistake these drugs as estrogens in certain bodily tissues. That’s right, these “recovery” drugs can actually rob you of your masculinity in a very devastating way. For instance, men on Clomid will spend days crying over old breakup’s, while becoming completely unable to perform sexually. This is because a high dose of Clomid acts like estrogen in the brain, and makes you feel like an emotionally distressed pregnant woman! People usually blame these symptoms on low testosterone from their cycle (not realizing that the very drugs they are taking to increase their Testosterone are also contributing to the symptoms they are trying to avoid!). What’s worse is that these selective estrogen receptor modulator’s can actually stress your liver (the last thing you want after a cycle), while hurting your eyesight due to their ocular toxicity. Besides, if these drugs actually worked that well you wouldn’t hear about guys complaining of a “low libido” or a “limp ” during PCT - post cycle therapy - .

Since these SERMs can help stimulate testosterone production, we will keep them in our PCT - post cycle therapy - , but at a much lower dose to avoid their possible side effects.

Over Use of Anti-Estrogens –

Aromatase inhibitors (aromatase inhibitor’s) such as Arimidex, Aromasin, and Formestane are powerful tools for reducing estrogen conversion from heavily aromatizing drugs such as Testosterone or Dianabol. While these drugs are sometimes useful during cycle, they are not necessary during PCT - post cycle therapy - . Remember, it is easy to overuse aromatase inhibitor’s and overuse has very serious side effects. Extremely low estrogen will give you joint pain, make your prone to heart disease, and make your sex drive plummet. This hurts your long and short term recovery and does not benefit you. Don’t forget, normal levels of estrogen are necessary to support libido, muscle recovery, and testicular function.

Improper use of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - –

When you’re on steroids, your body stops production of its own testosterone production. Essentially, your brain cuts off the signal from the brain to the testes, and your testes stop producing testosterone. Once this happens, your testes shutdown, start to shrink, and become unresponsive to stimulation from the brain (desensitized). This is the reason why some guys may never recovery from a steroid cycle -- because the testes became too desensitized. Think of it this way, if you ignored your girlfriend for 12 weeks, do you think she would still be around on week 13? She would be long gone, with a new dude, and you would be high and dry!

Right now you’re probably thinking “Well I can just shoot HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - at the end of the cycle to kick start my testosterone production…” Sorry, but once your testes are neglected, they don’t like to come back full strength no matter how much HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - you take. Do you think getting on your knees and crying for your girlfriend to come back after 12 weeks of neglect will work? Probably not, so why not just make a small effort to keep your testes active and in the game during cycle?

On-cycle-HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - is what you need. A small dose will keep “the boys” running as normal during cycle, so they can jump back on track when you come clean. Plus, when you use HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - during the cycle, you don’t need to use it for PCT - post cycle therapy - . This helps you recover faster than you ever thought possible. Just keep reading…

Getting down to business

So, if you shouldn’t use mega doses of SERMs, powerful aromatase inhibitor’s or HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - for PCT - post cycle therapy - then what should you use?

On cycle protocol –

The biggest component of a fast recovery is keeping the testes active during the cycle. This is accomplished by taking HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - during cycle, not after like many people think. On cycle HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - forces your testes to continue to produce testosterone as they normally would. The trick with on-cycle-HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - use is to avoid using too much, too frequently (which can desensitize your testes). It’s important to use just enough to stimulate the testes to produce the same amount of testosterone they normally would.

For on-cycle-HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - , I recommend 250 iu’s of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - taken twice a week from the start of your 3rd week of the cycle until two weeks before the steroids or pro-hormones clear your system (be sure to check the half lives and clearance time of the Steroids / Pro-Hormones you use as these widely vary).

During the cycle, take a moderate dose of an aromatase inhibitor (aromatase inhibitor) as needed, but remember, too much or too little are both detrimental. While using HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - on cycle I recommend 10mg/ED of Aromasin or 1mg/ED Arimidex to keep estrogen in control.

Transition Phase -

As the anabolic steroids’s begin to clear the system you enter the transition phase. During this time, you drop HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - , and begin tapering down the dose of your anti-estrogens. If you are using a drug with a long acting ester like enanthate then you would take your last shot of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - during your last shot of enanthate, since it has about a 2-3 week clearance time. If you’re ending the cycle with a fast acting oral steroid, then you would stop the HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - about 2 weeks before your last oral dose.

Remember, you must discontinue HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - before you start PCT - post cycle therapy - . HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - acts in place of lh - leutenizing hormone - which is the hormone sent from the brain to the testes to make the testes produce Testosterone. During the two week period after you discontinue HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - use, your testes are becoming re-sensitized to the body’s lh - leutenizing hormone - signal. This allows your testes to start producing testosterone naturally as soon as the steroids clear the system.

PCT - post cycle therapy - protocol -

The steroids, HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - and anti-estrogens are now completely out of your system. You don’t need powerful aromatase inhibitor's for PCT - post cycle therapy - , since you have almost nothing in your body that will convert to estrogen. Instead, you should choose compounds that can keep estrogen at a healthy level while encouraging your body’s natural testosterone production. What you need is something that will surge your natural lh - leutenizing hormone - levels without crushing estrogen to the ground. You also need something to reduce cortisol, which is a nasty hormone that can breakdown your muscle and reduce your testosterone levels.

http://www.primordialperformance.com/images/newsletter_graphics/Dec 08 TRS/EndoAmp.jpg

For suppressing cortisol I suggest supplementing with 800mg of phosphatidylserine (PS), found in EndoAmp. PS is a very important phospholipid found within your cells which helps reduce stress related catabolism and cortisol release. As you may know, cortisol levels rapidly increase after exercise, but phosphatidylserine has been shown to blunt this effect and reduce the breakdown of muscle following a workout. Even worse, is that cortisol can lower testosterone by reducing the testes ability to produce Testosterone! This is the last thing a recovering steroid users wants for PCT - post cycle therapy - .

For testosterone stimulation, Clomid and Nolvadex can get the job done, but they can have side effects at higher doses, so we have to keep the dose low to avoid these toxic effects. 10mg/day of Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - or 25mg/day of Clomid would be the most you would want to take, since any more than this has never been proven to work any better for increasing testosterone.

To enhance testosterone production as much as possible, while supporting your health and sexual function you should supplement your PCT - post cycle therapy - with the topical cream Sustain Alpha (formerly known as Dermacrine Sustain). Blood tests have proven Sustain Alpha to be just as effective for restoring testosterone, but without the side effects of Clomid or Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - (Sustain has even been used successfully by itself for PCT - post cycle therapy - ). Best of all, Sustain Alpha is completely legal and natural. What makes it so effective is that the active ingredients are delivered directly to the blood stream, with an advanced topical delivery cream that pulls the ingredients through the skin.

http://www.primordialperformance.com/images/newsletter_graphics/Dec%2008%20GABA%20Sustain%20forum%20post/Sustain-Alpha.jpg]

Here are the three active components that make Sustain Alpha so effective –

1. Resveratrol (99% pure extract)
2. Benzoflavone (99% pure extract)
3. Volatile plant oil complex (Diallyl-disulfide, Clary Sage, Sandalwood)

All the active constituents work together synergistically to create a powerful surge in testosterone by causing the body to increase its ‘testosterone production signal’. More specifically, the active ingredients increase the secretion of luteinizing hormone (lh - leutenizing hormone - ) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - ) from the brain. lh - leutenizing hormone - is the hormone secreted from the brain which stimulates testosterone production from the testes, while FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - stimulates the testes to produce sperm. Increasing both of these “signal hormones” is critical for increasing testicular size and function, while simultaneously boosting testosterone production.

Blood test results have revealed that resveratrol and benzoflavone have a powerful effect on increasing lh - leutenizing hormone - /FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - , testosterone and sperm production. Studies with animals have shown resveratrol and benzoflavone dramatically increase fertility and mating frequency, which coincides with the feedback received from hundreds of satisfied customers. Other research has shown resveratrol and benzoflavone to support cardiovascular and blood vessel function – two great benefits for the male interested in improving his heart-health and erectile-health.

Resveratrol and benzoflavone are act as mild ‘anti-estrogens’ by blocking estrogen at the receptor, while also reducing conversion to estrogen. By controlling estrogen, you eliminate the risk of gynecomastia, fat depositing and further testicular shrinkage. However, Sustain Alpha wont overly suppress estrogen like many PCT - post cycle therapy - drugs or supplements, therefore estrogen is kept in an ideal range for optimum recovery. Remember, maintaining normal levels of estrogen is important for muscle growth, libido, and cholesterol health.

Sustain Alpha also utilizes aromatic volatile plant oils to further amplify the massive surge of testosterone. These oils contain high amounts of sesquiterpenes and diterpenes which stimulate lh - leutenizing hormone - & FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - release by absorbing through the nose upon inhalation during product application. That’s right, the oils evaporate, enter the nasal cavity, and immediately enter the brain by passing the nasal mucosa (they also pass through the skin). Once in the brain, they oxygenate the hypothalamus and up-regulate cAMP for increased lh - leutenizing hormone - & FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - secretion -- and it gets even better.

Until recently, it was assumed Sustain Alpha couldn’t possibly be any more effective. However, there is one limiting factor that bottlenecks Sustain from being maximally effective, and it has to do with testicular sensitivity. Let me explain…

You see, testosterone production is initiated by the activation of lh - leutenizing hormone - & FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - receptors in the testes. Yet, if you lack testicular sensitivity, then the lh - leutenizing hormone - & FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - signal won’t initiate testosterone production no matter how high your lh - leutenizing hormone - or FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - levels are. Therefore, it’s critically important to maintain testicular sensitivity, and this is precisely what Toco-8 was designed for.

http://www.primordialperformance.com/images/newsletter_graphics/Dec%2008%20GABA%20Sustain%20forum%20post/toco-8.jpg

Toco-8 is a powdered tocotrienol supplement designed to increase testicular sensitivity. When taken with Sustain Alpha, a powerful synergy occurs. By increasing testicular sensitivity, Toco-8 makes Sustain Alpha 3-4x more effective, thus allowing the testes to produce more testosterone than they ever could before. Research has also proven that Toco-8 can increase the effectiveness of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - by the same mechanism. Consider Toco-8 the beginning of a great testicular awakening – critical for maximizing the testosterone response from lh - leutenizing hormone - & FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - stimulation.

Fortunately, the only “side-effects” associated with Sustain Alpha and Toco-8 are the ones that make your wife happy or give your girlfriend something to brag about. Make no mistake, you will be a new man while using this testosterone boosting combination. Get ready for harder erections, more stamina, and the biggest loads of your life. But don’t take my word for it. Jump on Google or any major bodybuilding forum and put in a search, and you will see Sustain Alpha and Toco-8 are “the real deal”, backed by thousands of positive reviews.

Recap –

For the fastest possible recovery, use 250iu of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - during the cycle. After the cycle, for PCT - post cycle therapy - , you block cortisol with EndoAmp. Then, to safely block & control estrogen you stack a low dose of Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - or Clomid (10mg or 25mg ED) with Sustain Alpha and Toco-8. This synergistic combo is absolutely the single most powerful protocol for a truly successful PCT - post cycle therapy - . Just follow the table below for the proper use of these supplements according to your cycle –

http://www.primordialperformancetemp.com/images/stacking_guidlines.jpg

As I mentioned in the beginning of the article, we are offering a special offer for this PCT - post cycle therapy - stack. We’ve put together a 30-day stack of Sustain Alpha, Toco-8 and EndoAmp into one package deal -- the Testosterone Recovery Stack for only $119.99. (This stack saves your $15 off the regular price!)

http://www.primordialperformance.com/images/newsletter_graphics/Dec 08 TRS/TRS.jpg

Plus, as an exclusive deal for forum members, Primordial Performance is extending another 10% off on this Testosterone Recovery Stack! (To take 10% off your order just enter SPONSOR10 into the promotional code field during the final checkout page.)

So again…

You save $15 with the Testosterone Recovery Stack

Plus…

An additional 10% off with the code SPONSOR10

To take advantage of this offer, head over to Testosterone Support Supplements for Men. Health, Libido, Masculinity

Still undecided? Feel free to post your questions and comments here…

Thank you for supporting your local forum sponsor Primordial Performance!

-Pp

Direct contact info -

Call us – 1-800-568-2924
Email us – info@primordialperformance.com
Visit us – Testosterone Support Supplements for Men. Health, Libido, Masculinity

BTW, for those who need proof that Sustain, Toco-8 or EndoAmp are wonder supplements, just take a look at these results from satisfied EF members –

Very nice marketing propoganda...they might want to do a bit more research!!
P

[waderow]

Very nice marketing propoganda...they might want to do a bit more research!!
P

its a copy of the link posted earlier.

[Praetorian]

I have an existing gyno problem, so you think nolva would help me out instead of adex ? what dosage of nolva would you recommend?

Youll have to experiment and see...everyone is different. 20-40 mg per day should suffice. 12.5mg aromasin EOD may also be necessary just keep the dose low.
P

[tex]

an herbal replacement for pct......ummm....id like to keep my gains, not grow tits and have regular sized testicles......

[methadone]

Run the dbol starting week 5...youll get a much better synergistic effect with the test e kicking in. You dont need hcg twice per week on a 12 week cycle...once is fine. The arimidex will drop your HDL levels through the floor as well as halt most of your gains...unless you have an existing gyno condition you shouldnt use it. If you do have existing gyno try nolvadex instead as it will also keep blood lipid profiles in line. Nolvadex for PCT is quite limited and not as effective as hcg with clomid. For better recovery use aromasin through the PCT and start with HCG for two weeks then clomid for three weeks and you are good. Dosages will depend on your age and cycle history.
P

so you're suggesting i start dbol on week 5-12 instead of 1-4? I was always under the impression that orals like dbol and anadrol were used to kick off a cycle while the test was kickin in?

i currently don't have any gyno problems...so if i was to drop the arimidex at .5mg ed thru out the cycle for nolvadex, what would be my nolvadex dosage?

I thought that I shouldn't use HCG for PCT if I'm using it during my cycle anyways? i plan on using it from weeks 3-12?

I'm 24, this is my third cycle, first cycle was 8 weeks of test e, second was 10 weeks of test e and trenbolone a. im 190lbs.

In your opinion then, would be my dosages and duration of HCG and aromasin for my pct, keeping in mind that i'm going to be on PCT during the cycle

[quebecbulk]

Everyone on elite is hoping on the band wagon with these pct products.

"Needtogetas" is the guy profiting from all this in a ridiculous way.

This is the line of products is pushing:

Dermacrine
Sustain Alpha
Toco-8
EndoAmp
Phyto-Testosterone
DermaTherm
CLA
Tea-3
Primordial Performance
Lean Muscle Stack
Testosterone Recovery Stack
Fat Loss Stack


Enjoy!

[methadone]

also im a little confused, i was told that 2x of 250iu of hcg a week would be good, what does everyone suggest then for a 12 week cycle? just one of 250iu/week?

[JonnyO]

No Offense bro but cant you get to over 200lbs naturally? For someone thats done 3 cycles and still only 190 at 5'9" somethings not adding up here. I really dont mean to offend you but rather help you or maybe you have different goals other than getting big.

I agree with Praet, adding orals in once the oils kick in is smarter and more beneficial as they will work in synergy then. Getting the most out of what you have is important.

I also like the idea for the same reasons of using Aromasin or Nolva.

[Big D]

Youll have to experiment and see...everyone is different. 20-40 mg per day should suffice. 12.5mg aromasin EOD may also be necessary just keep the dose low.
P

I always have the mentality that if I use nolva on cycle it will hinder my gains. but I guess it wont hinder my gains as much as adex would ?

[Praetorian]

so you're suggesting i start dbol on week 5-12 instead of 1-4? I was always under the impression that orals like dbol and anadrol were used to kick off a cycle while the test was kickin in?
ORALS WORK MUCH BETTER DUE TO THEIR SHORT HALF IF WHEN COMBINED WITH A LONG ESTER. YOULL GET MORE BANG FOR YOUR BUCK RUNNING IT ONCE YOUR BLOOD ANDROGEN LEVELS ARE HIGH.

i currently don't have any gyno problems...so if i was to drop the arimidex at .5mg ed thru out the cycle for nolvadex, what would be my nolvadex dosage?
IF YOU DONT HAVE GYNO 500MG TEST PER WEEK SHOULDNT CAUSE ANY...KEEP NOLVADEX ON HAND JUST IN CASE. YOU CAN RUN 10MG DAILY JUST IN CASE AND TO HELP WITH HDL LEVELS.

I thought that I shouldn't use HCG for PCT if I'm using it during my cycle anyways? i plan on using it from weeks 3-12? HCG DURING CYCLE ONLY SLIGHLTY PREVENTS TESTICULAR ATROPHY...IT DOES NOT ACT AS PCT NOR WILL IT INCREASE ENDOGENOUS TEST WHEN YOU ARE FINISHED. YOUR CYCLE ISNT THAT LONG AND YOU REALLY SHOULDNT REQUIRE IT EXCEPT TO KICK START THINGS DURING PCT.

I'm 24, this is my third cycle, first cycle was 8 weeks of test e, second was 10 weeks of test e and trenbolone a. im 190lbs. YOU MAY WANT TO LOOK AT YOUR TRAINING AND DIET...AFTER MY THIRD CYCLE I WAS 270LBS. YOU DONT NEED TREN AT YOUR LEVEL.

In your opinion then, would be my dosages and duration of HCG and aromasin for my pct, keeping in mind that i'm going to be on PCT during the cycle


12.5 MG AROMASIN ED RIGHT THRU
500-1000 IU HCG ETD 2WEEKS
50MG CLOMID ED 3 WEEKS
GET BLOOD WORK DONE 2 WEEKS AFTER FINISHING CLOMID

P

[Praetorian]

I always have the mentality that if I use nolva on cycle it will hinder my gains. but I guess it wont hinder my gains as much as adex would ?

Nolvadex and adex are two completely different compounds and work in different ways. Nolva blocks existing estrogen from attaching to the receptor...adex prevents the conversion of test to estrogen. A small dose of nolva will keep blood lipid profiles normal and shouldnt affect gains much. Adex on the other hand at .5mg ED will drop estro levels significantly as well as HDL levels and hinder gains.
P

[Big D]

Nolvadex and adex are two completely different compounds and work in different ways. Nolva blocks existing estrogen from attaching to the receptor...adex prevents the conversion of test to estrogen. A small dose of nolva will keep blood lipid profiles normal and shouldnt affect gains much. Adex on the other hand at .5mg ED will drop estro levels significantly as well as HDL levels and hinder gains.
P

I appreciate the quick reply and the help thank you :)

[methadone]

Praetorian, thanks a lot for your help bro. I don't know if you were annoyed with me and thats why you used all caps, but if so, all apologies. Im new to this and have just been told a LOT of diferent information from a lot of diferent people. One last question, regarding this
12.5 MG AROMASIN ED RIGHT THRU
500-1000 IU HCG ETD 2WEEKS
50MG CLOMID ED 3 WEEKS
GET BLOOD WORK DONE 2 WEEKS AFTER FINISHING CLOMID

the HCG is to be done right after the cycle is over? what does ETD stand for? Im new to forums. Once I do the HCG for 2 weeks, i start the clomid correct?

thanks again bro.

As for why I'm not any bigger, i was cruisin at 240lbs and pretty lean. i wiped out on my bike pretty and was out for almost a full year. It's taken me a year to get to where i am now, natty that is. I'm 25 in a couple months. I should of mentioned that, all apologies.

thanks again for everyone's help.

[Praetorian]

Praetorian, thanks a lot for your help bro. I don't know if you were annoyed with me and thats why you used all caps, but if so, all apologies. Im new to this and have just been told a LOT of diferent information from a lot of diferent people. One last question, regarding this
12.5 MG AROMASIN ED RIGHT THRU
500-1000 IU HCG ETD 2WEEKS
50MG CLOMID ED 3 WEEKS
GET BLOOD WORK DONE 2 WEEKS AFTER FINISHING CLOMID

the HCG is to be done right after the cycle is over? what does ETD stand for? Im new to forums. Once I do the HCG for 2 weeks, i start the clomid correct?

thanks again bro.

As for why I'm not any bigger, i was cruisin at 240lbs and pretty lean. i wiped out on my bike pretty and was out for almost a full year. It's taken me a year to get to where i am now, natty that is. I'm 25 in a couple months. I should of mentioned that, all apologies.

thanks again for everyone's help.

No not annoyed lol just used caps to separate my comments from yours. ETD is every third day. Yes once you finish the HCG start the clomid. Just remeber aas are not magic you need to train heavy and hard and eat seriously...make sure you get enough protein...not guessing you need to measure it.
P

[methadone]

alright sweet, im good to go then. greatly appreciated

[JonnyO]

alright sweet, im good to go then. greatly appreciated

Good luck bro now that you got some solid information.

[methadone]

thanks bro, i dont think ill go back to elitefitness now...ill just chill here

[Kilburn]

also im a little confused, i was told that 2x of 250iu of hcg a week would be good, what does everyone suggest then for a 12 week cycle? just one of 250iu/week?

sounds fine, only problem i see is i thought hcg was only good in the fridge for like a month or so. youre planning to use it for 2.5 months so if it's the same vial the hcg might not be as effective at the end. id prob just start it up more towards the end of the cycle and use it up faster/higher dose.

[Kilburn]

No Offense bro but cant you get to over 200lbs naturally? For someone thats done 3 cycles and still only 190 at 5'9" somethings not adding up here. I really dont mean to offend you but rather help you or maybe you have different goals other than getting big.

I agree with Praet, adding orals in once the oils kick in is smarter and more beneficial as they will work in synergy then. Getting the most out of what you have is important.

I also like the idea for the same reasons of using Aromasin or Nolva.

judgin by your avatar u shouldnt be talking shit.

in this pic i'm only 200 pounds @ 5'11. not everyone has a big frame.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/2572/nofacesv8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/nofacesv8.jpg/1/w224.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img134/nofacesv8.jpg/1/)

[methadone]

killburn, according to what i've read somewhere, hcg that's been mixed is good for 60 days when refrigerated. I'm getting it still in powder, so, i'll mix it when i need it.

i may be wrong tho, ive been wrong lotsa times before.

[Cartwright Cartwright]

judgin by your avatar u shouldnt be talking shit.

in this pic i'm only 200 pounds @ 5'11. not everyone has a big frame.

Good point bro. Some of the best physiques in Canada are well under 200 pounds and I`m pretty sure they are not all natural:)

[93civicgone]

deca is best ran for little longer in my thoughts try running 16wks and deca for 14 up to u bro

[methadone]

so bring my cycle to 16 weeks, and stop deca at 14?

i read somewhere that aas aren't as effective past 12 weeks, any truth to this?

[JonnyO]

judgin by your avatar u shouldnt be talking shit.

in this pic i'm only 200 pounds @ 5'11. not everyone has a big frame.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/2572/nofacesv8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/nofacesv8.jpg/1/w224.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img134/nofacesv8.jpg/1/)

LOL, Excuse me? I was bigger than you when I graduated High School my friend.

And FYI, my avi I am over 220lbs contest shape. So when you get a decent base on you naturally then come here and try to talk shit to me you tiny runt...and nice tattoo, doesnt Pamela Anderson have the same one?

[JonnyO]

judgin by your avatar u shouldnt be talking shit.

in this pic i'm only 200 pounds @ 5'11. not everyone has a big frame.



http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4873

So what is it? 200lbs or 210lbs lol??? :ji

And from your posts in that thread you pretty much lost all of what credibility you might of had. Your the type of "godly" meatball that give bodybuilders bad raps.

Do or die bro, do or die...maybe if you go up to 2g per week you might be able to hold over 200lbs without being "on" or cruising. :ji

[natenator]

*giggles*

game
set
match

[Houstonbc]

i was waiting for that reply! lol

[JonnyO]

And I'm sure most will agree I wasnt being a dick to Meth and I stated in my post to him "no offense" and was being helpful and told to keep us updated..

It's punks like Killburn that make the boards shit with dumb ass posts like his.

[methadone]

can't we all just get along

[Kilburn]

http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4873

So what is it? 200lbs or 210lbs lol??? :ji

And from your posts in that thread you pretty much lost all of what credibility you might of had. Your the type of "godly" meatball that give bodybuilders bad raps.

Do or die bro, do or die...maybe if you go up to 2g per week you might be able to hold over 200lbs without being "on" or cruising. :ji


LOL, Excuse me? I was bigger than you when I graduated High School my friend.

And FYI, my avi I am over 220lbs contest shape. So when you get a decent base on you naturally then come here and try to talk shit to me you tiny runt...and nice tattoo, doesnt Pamela Anderson have the same one?

yaya whatever, youre taking shit way too personally. ya, scale said 210 but that was with clothes/shoes on and towards the end of the day. if i weighed myself in the morning it would probably be closer to 200, maybe even less.

im just so fuking sick of people saying that shit. i used to read that exact same fuking post over and over again on bodybuilding.com. 'cant you get over insert number here naturally'. if i had a nickle for everytime i read someone say that... u get the point. one of the main guys who said it on bb.com was bladen-a dude that turned out to be a 250 pound fatass with fukall muscle. he was exposed as a fraud. anyway, my point is your weight isnt the most important thing, what you look like is. flex wheeler competed at 210-220 u know. zane was probably like 190. stop acting like youre so fuking great and 'better' than other people just because you weigh alot.

[Redz]

Definitely do more pct than just the Nolva.

[natenator]

yaya whatever, youre taking shit way too personally. ya, scale said 210 but that was with clothes/shoes on and towards the end of the day. if i weighed myself in the morning it would probably be closer to 200, maybe even less.

im just so fuking sick of people saying that shit. i used to read that exact same fuking post over and over again on bodybuilding.com. 'cant you get over insert number here naturally'. if i had a nickle for everytime i read someone say that... u get the point. one of the main guys who said it on bb.com was bladen-a dude that turned out to be a 250 pound fatass with fukall muscle. he was exposed as a fraud. anyway, my point is your weight isnt the most important thing, what you look like is. flex wheeler competed at 210-220 u know. zane was probably like 190. stop acting like youre so fuking great and 'better' than other people just because you weigh alot.
from the looks of you, if you competed you'd be doing so in the 160 range. When you can weigh 190 SHREDDED come back and talk to us otherwise stick to bb.com. That's where the full retards like you belong.

[93civicgone]

its all up to you bro i personly find that running my cycles for say 16 weeks helps hold gains 16weeks test 14 deca is a very desent cycle deca needs time to be ran longer then 10 weeks in my thoughts. muscle takes time to build so why not give it a few more weeks

[quebecbulk]

from the looks of you, if you competed you'd be doing so in the 160 range. When you can weigh 190 SHREDDED come back and talk to us otherwise stick to bb.com. That's where the full retards like you belong.

BB.com LOL!

Just ignore the little guy and i'm sure he'll go away..

If he doesn't ill post a few pics to shut him up.

[JonnyO]

BB.com LOL!

Just ignore the little guy and i'm sure he'll go away..

If he doesn't ill post a few pics to shut him up.

LOL, ok, ok, ok. Now we know he hits BB.com we know he's still in high school so I'll give him credit, he's got a decent base for an 18 year old.

DOnt start something you cant finish.

[quebecbulk]

LOL, ok, ok, ok. Now we know he hits BB.com we know he's still in high school so I'll give him credit, he's got a decent base for an 18 year old.

DOnt start something you cant finish.

He does have a good base for an 18 year old, but on the other hand he acts like an 18 year old..

Trust me Jonny I can finish what I start..haha

If I couldn't I'd just be another loudmouth...lol

[AlladdinSane]

That's where the full retards like you belong.

"Never go full retard."

[quebecbulk]

"Never go full retard."

LMFAO!