Looking For BCAA/Leucine

[O-Train]

I'm looking for a good BCAA/L-Leucine product that I can order in Canada. I would get it from TP.com but the shipping/exchange kills it for me.

Preferably something that is relatively inexpensive, in powder form and pure. Any of the board sponsers can chime in with a recommendation. Or if you want to send me something I'll write up a great product review/log.

[JonnyO]

Dont waste your money, look for some PeptoPro. Free shipping if you buy a case of LBA's, lol.

[O-Train]

Dont waste your money, look for some PeptoPro. Free shipping if you buy a case of LBA's, lol.

Did some reading, PeptoPro looks interesting although I'm guessing it's expensive.

Thanks very much to Physique. Possibly a thread in the future.

[phatkid77]

a. i find even with shitty shipping... TP is petty damn cheap...an QUALITY
b. pepto pro is $$ i bout 1 or 2 lbs to try...taste like ass to be honest...

phats

[jsv22]

a. i find even with shitty shipping... TP is petty damn cheap...an QUALITY
b. pepto pro is $$ i bout 1 or 2 lbs to try...taste like ass to be honest...

phats

I"m going to order some from TP next week, i'll let you know how it goes for me

-jsv

[JonnyO]

I guy the flavored and mix with a bit of juice and tastes great and it mixes unlike every other bcaa type powder I've used.

[5151]

I believe Ajinomoto is carried in Canada. I would use either their products or something that buys their aminos from them. This is as close to pharmaceutical grade as you're going to get. It also alarms me that most companies won't disclose their sources.

[5151]

Dont waste your money, look for some PeptoPro. Free shipping if you buy a case of LBA's, lol.

I'm not sold on hydro anything.

[Ritch]

I believe Ajinomoto is carried in Canada. I would use either their products or something that buys their aminos from them. This is as close to pharmaceutical grade as you're going to get. It also alarms me that most companies won't disclose their sources.

They make a product called amino vital. Expensive shit. I would not be worried about buying bulk aminos from most well known places that sell them. They usually go for $40 u.s. a kilo. Good to see you back 5151!

[JonnyO]

I'm not sold on hydro anything.

It all goes as to personal preference and the difference may be slight, as for me so far I like them and as well do others and try not to knock a product until I've tried it. Even if slight diff, a little bit over time can add up.

Just like the LBA's I was a harsh skeptic on them as well as others I know. Now that I am on them I like them, and with the Pepto I can pretty much eliminate all whey from my diet. Will keep an Iso PWO with pepto/LBAs.

A guy I know posted that with the LBA's he may hold some intracellular H2O say 5lbs and add anothr 5lbs on top of that from his current cycle and drop the 5lbs of H20 when he comes off and retain that other 5lbs...as if he didnt add the LBA's he may retain maybe 3lbs. Each little bit adds up and this can go for all supps we feel work for ourselves. Not everyone agrees on what supps are the best, but we can agree on what supps work best for ones self. Hell I know one guy that still pounds back dessicated liver tablets because he believes in them and feels them work for him, even though with the many new supps that eliminate the use of them for convenience sake.

[NACanada]

I'm looking for a good BCAA/L-Leucine product that I can order in Canada. I would get it from TP.com but the shipping/exchange kills it for me.

Preferably something that is relatively inexpensive, in powder form and pure. Any of the board sponsers can chime in with a recommendation. Or if you want to send me something I'll write up a great product review/log.

Check out Revolution Nutrition's BCAA's. 45 bucks for 500G. Doesn't come close to the the $21/lb from TP but it's pretty competitive in the Canadian market.

[#8]

I believe Ajinomoto is carried in Canada. I would use either their products or something that buys their aminos from them. This is as close to pharmaceutical grade as you're going to get. It also alarms me that most companies won't disclose their sources.

my store carries ajinmoto, and if MP ever comes back I can throw my banner up. PM me if you have any questions regarding the Amino Vital, I carry this and the Endurance version as well.

[5151]

They make a product called amino vital. Expensive shit. I would not be worried about buying bulk aminos from most well known places that sell them. They usually go for $40 u.s. a kilo. Good to see you back 5151!

China scares me to be honest. I've really started to gravitate towards products produced by companies like NOW, AOR and the like. Let's be serious I've been far too busy chasing girls, getting fat and drinking to be buying anything really health oriented anyway. Things are starting to get back into a routine slowly. I just started my degree in human nutrition and is a bit heavier course load then i anticipated.


It all goes as to personal preference and the difference may be slight, as for me so far I like them and as well do others and try not to knock a product until I've tried it. Even if slight diff, a little bit over time can add up.

Just like the LBA's I was a harsh skeptic on them as well as others I know. Now that I am on them I like them, and with the Pepto I can pretty much eliminate all whey from my diet. Will keep an Iso PWO with pepto/LBAs.

A guy I know posted that with the LBA's he may hold some intracellular H2O say 5lbs and add anothr 5lbs on top of that from his current cycle and drop the 5lbs of H20 when he comes off and retain that other 5lbs...as if he didnt add the LBA's he may retain maybe 3lbs. Each little bit adds up and this can go for all supps we feel work for ourselves. Not everyone agrees on what supps are the best, but we can agree on what supps work best for ones self. Hell I know one guy that still pounds back dessicated liver tablets because he believes in them and feels them work for him, even though with the many new supps that eliminate the use of them for convenience sake.

For old times sake, abstract attack

Jose A. L. Calbet1, 2 Contact Information and Jens J. Holst3
(1) Copenhagen Muscle Research Center, Rigshospitalet, Copenhagen, Denmark
(2) Depto. de Educacion Fisica, Universidad de Las Palmas de Gran Canaria Campus Universitario de Tafira, 35017 Las Palmas de Gran Canaria Canary Islands, Spain
(3) Dept. of Medical Physiology, University of Copenhagen, The Panum Institute, Copenhagen, Denmark

Received: 30 December 2002 Accepted: 13 August 2003 Published online: 6 January 2004
Summary.
Background: The influence of protein fractionation on gastric emptying and rate of appearance of their constituent amino acids in peripheral blood remains unknown.
Aim of the study: To examine the influence of the degree of protein fractionation on gastric emptying, gastric secretion, amino acid absorption and enterogastrone response, after the intragastric administration of complete cow milk proteins or their respective peptide hydrolysates in man.
Methods: Six healthy males were randomized to receive one of the following four solutions: whey whole protein (W), casein whole protein (C), whey peptide hydrolysate (WHY) or casein hydrolysate (CAHY). All solutions were matched for volume (600 mL), nitrogen content (9.3 g/L), energy density (1069–1092 kJ/L), osmolality (288–306 mosmol/kg), pH (6.9–7.0) and temperature (37 °C).
Results: Solutions were emptied at similar rates, with mean half-times of (mean &#177; SEM) 21.4 &#177; 1.3, 19.3 &#177; 2.2, 18.0 &#177; 2.5 and 19.4 &#177; 2.8 min, for the WHY, CAHY, C and W, respectively. The rates of intestinal absorption of water and amino acids were similar with the exception of the casein protein solution, for which the speed of intestinal amino acid absorption was slower (p < 0.05). The peptide hydrolysates elicited about 50&#37; more gastric secretion than the whole protein solutions (p < 0.05),which was accompanied by higher glucosedependent insulinotropic polipeptide (GIP) plasma levels during the first 20 min of the gastric emptying process. Similar glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) and peptide YY (PYY) plasma responses were elicited by the four solutions.
Conclusions: The rate of gastric emptying and the plasma GLP-1 and PYY responses to feeding with cow milk protein solutions in humans are independent of the degree of protein fractionation and are not altered by small differences in the amino acid composition or protein solubility. In contrast, the GIP response is accentuated when milk proteins are delivered as peptide hydrolysates.

I don't see an advantage over whey. Perhaps if you wanted casein's amino profile in the time frame of whey there may be some merit but I can't think of a legitimate reason why you would want that.

[JonnyO]

5151, those are great advantages for me, as I have had some of my bowels and small intestine removed. :o I use immediately upon waking with WMS and my real breaky is 1/2hr to 45 min later to an hour maybe. Pre/during/pwo. It's gut friendly, faster rate of amino influx into the bloodstream all = greater nitrogen retention.

[5151]

5151, those are great advantages for me, as I have had some of my bowels and small intestine removed. :o I use immediately upon waking with WMS and my real breaky is 1/2hr to 45 min later to an hour maybe. Pre/during/pwo. It's gut friendly, faster rate of amino influx into the bloodstream all = greater nitrogen retention.

is peptopro hydro-casein? I just assumed it was hydro-whey. If you feel it is of benefit to spend the extra cash for hydro casein vs a high quality whey isolate that is surely your perogative. I don't have the two AA profiles off hand to compare anyway I seem to remember casein having a higher leucine content.

It's interesting you say it's gut friendly as the study did show a higher gastric secretion for the hydro's perhaps for a person with your condition the stomach may not produce enough enzymes on it's own or efficiently anyway. Or I could have just said some real retarded shit who knows.

[JonnyO]

Yes it is a hydrolyzed casein. Here are some very good studies you might enjoy.

http://www.nutribevscience.com/04_Evidence_Papers_11-22-06_fromStefan.pdf

[O-Train]

Abstract taken off of pubmed.

Branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs) are essential amino acids that can be oxidized in skeletal muscle. It is known that BCAA oxidation is promoted by exercise. The mechanism responsible for this phenomenon is attributed to activation of the branched-chain alpha-keto acid dehydrogenase (BCKDH) complex, which catalyzes the second-step reaction of the BCAA catabolic pathway and is the rate-limiting enzyme in the pathway. This enzyme complex is regulated by a phosphorylation-dephosphorylation cycle. The BCKDH kinase is responsible for inactivation of the complex by phosphorylation, and the activity of the kinase is inversely correlated with the activity state of the BCKDH complex, which suggests that the kinase is the primary regulator of the complex. We found recently that administration of ligands for peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-alpha (PPARalpha) in rats caused activation of the hepatic BCKDH complex in association with a decrease in the kinase activity, which suggests that promotion of fatty acid oxidation upregulates the BCAA catabolism. Long-chain fatty acids are ligands for PPARalpha, and the fatty acid oxidation is promoted by several physiological conditions including exercise. These findings suggest that fatty acids may be one of the regulators of BCAA catabolism and that the BCAA requirement is increased by exercise. Furthermore, BCAA supplementation before and after exercise has beneficial effects for decreasing exercise-induced muscle damage and promoting muscle-protein synthesis; this suggests the possibility that BCAAs are a useful supplement in relation to exercise and sports.

Based on this information can anyone think of another potentially important application for BCAA supplementation. Maybe specific to a particular diet HINT HINT...fatty acid oxidation.

[O-Train]

Here's another one, interesting.

Branched-chain amino acids (BCAA) or a placebo was given to seven subjects during 1 h of ergometer cycle exercise and a 2-h recovery period. Intake of BCAA did not influence the rate of exchange of the aromatic amino acids, tyrosine and phenylalanine, in the legs during exercise or the increase in their concentration in muscle. The increase was approximately 30&#37; in both conditions. On the other hand, in the recovery period after exercise, a faster decrease in the muscle concentration of aromatic amino acids was found in the BCAA experiment (46% compared with 25% in the placebo condition). There was also a tendency to a smaller release (an average of 32%) of these amino acids from the legs during the 2-h recovery. The results suggest that BCAA have a protein-sparing effect during the recovery after exercise, either that protein synthesis has been stimulated and/or protein degradation has decreased, but the data during exercise are too variable to make any conclusions about the effects during exercise. The effect in the recovery period does not seem to be mediated by insulin.

and another

Five male endurance-trained subjects performed exhaustive exercise on a cycle ergometer at a work rate corresponding to 75% of their VO2max after reduction of their muscle glycogen stores. During exercise the subjects were given in random order a 6% carbohydrate solution continuing 7 g L-1 of branched-chain amino acids (BCAA), a 6% CHO solution and flavoured water. The physical performance was lowered in four of the five subjects when they were given flavoured water during exercise as compared with the two conditions when CHO was supplied. No difference in performance was found when the subjects were given CHO + BCAA or only CHO during exercise. When CHO + BCAA was supplied the plasma and muscle (vastus lateralis) concentrations of BCAA increased during exercise by 120 and 35%, respectively. In the other conditions there was no change or a slight decrease in the plasma concentrations of BCAA, but the muscle concentrations of BCAA were decreased after exercise. The plasma concentration of glutamine over the whole exercise period and 5 min after exercise was higher when CHO + BCAA were supplied during exercise compared with a supply of CHO alone or water. However, exercise caused no change in the muscle concentration of glutamine, whereas that of glutamate decreased in all three conditions. A supply of CHO + BCAA or CHO alone did not affect the exercise-induced increase in the plasma and muscle concentration of aromatic amino acids, indicating that neither BCAA nor CHO influenced the net protein degradation during exercise.

What I get from this is that BCAA supplementation pre/during workout does not influence protein degredation during exercise. Probably because for lack of better terms, the body is focusing on doing a lot of other stuff. However, it does seem to positively effect protein synthesis post exercise. So BCAA supplementation post exercise seems to be the most beneficial however pre/during workout may be a way of "priming the pump" (muscle).

[natenator]

when bulking (don't deviate from a meal plan when dieting) I drink 25 grams pre-workout and 25 grams immediately post.

Once I get home (30 mins post training) I carry on with meals which if my training is on point with my meal flow my next meal should be a 75 gram isolate shake directly after. followed by a whole meal 60 mins after the shake.

I like BCAA's in a mega dosing situation.

[O-Train]

Anyone want to take a shot at translating this one? I kind of understand it but not fully.

Six amino acids are metabolized in resting muscle. They are leucine, isoleucine, valine, asparagine, aspartate, and glutamate. These amino acids provide the amino groups and probably the ammonia required for synthesis of glutamine and alanine, which are released in excessive amounts in the postabsorptive state and during ingestion of a protein-containing meal. Only leucine and part of the isolecine molecule can be oxidized in muscle as they are converted to acetyl-CoA. The other carbon skeletons are used solely for de novo synthesis of TCA-cycle intermediates and glutamine. The carbon atoms of the released alanine originate primarily from glycolysis of blood glucose and from muscle glycogen (about half each in resting conditions). After consumption of a protein-containing meal, BCAA and glutamate are taken up by muscle and their carbon skeletons are used for de novo synthesis of glutamine. About half of the glutamine released from muscle originates from glutamate taken up from the blood, both after overnight starvation, after prolonged starvation, and after consumption of a mixed meal. Glutamine produced by muscle is an important fuel and regulator of DNA and RNA synthesis in mucosal cells and immune system cells, and fulfils several other important functions in human metabolism. The alanine aminotransferase reaction functions to establish and maintain high concentrations of TCA-cycle intermediates in muscle during the first 10 min of exercise. The increase in concentration of TCA-cycle intermediates probably is needed to increase the flux of the TCA-cycle and meet the increased energy demand of exercise. A gradual increase in leucine oxidation subsequently leads to a carbon drain on the TCA-cycle in glycogen-depleted muscles, and may thus reduce the maximal flux in the TCA-cycle and lead to fatigue. Deamination of amino acids and glutamine synthesis present alternative anaplerotic mechanisms in glycogen-depleted muscles, but only allow exercise at 40-50&#37; of Wmax. One-leg exercise leads to the net breakdown of muscle protein. The liberated amino acids are used for synthesis of TCA-cycle intermediates and glutamine. Today, the importance of this process in endurance exercise in the field (running or cycling) in athletes who ingest carbohydrates is not clear. It is proposed that the maximal flux in the TCA-cycle is reduced in glycogen-depleted muscles due to insufficient TCA-cycle anaplerosis, and that this presents a limitation for the maximal rate of fatty acid oxidation. Interactions between the amino acid pool and the TCA-cycle are suggested to play a central role in the energy metabolism of the exercising muscle.

[O-Train]

PHYSIQUE, I HAVE FOUND THAT BCAA SUPPLEMENTATION POST EXERCISE HELPS SOMEWHAT WITH RECOVERY. I FIND I HAVE MORE ENERGY ABOUT AN HOUR AFTER TRAINING ALTHOUGH INITIALLY BECAUSE OF WHAT I PERCIEVE AS A DROP IN BLOOD SUGAR I FEEL LETHARGIC. I STILL AM NOT SURE IF IT EFFECTS RECOVERY OVER A LONGER PERIOD AND/OR EFFECTS PROTEIN SYNTHESIS IN AN APPRECIABLE WAY. I'LL KEEP YOU POSTED.

This article looks at BCAA supplemenation before exercise.

Link to free full text: http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/136/2/529S

Nutraceutical effects of branched-chain amino acids on skeletal muscle.Shimomura Y, Yamamoto Y, Bajotto G, Sato J, Murakami T, Shimomura N, Kobayashi H, Mawatari K.
Department of Materials Science and Engineering, Nagoya Institute of Technology, Nagoya, Japan. shimomura.yoshiharu@nitech.ac.jp

BCAA catabolism in skeletal muscle is regulated by the branched-chain alpha-keto acid dehydrogenase (BCKDH) complex, located at the second step in the BCAA catabolic pathway. The activity of the BCKDH complex is regulated by a phosphorylation/dephosphorylation cycle. Almost all of BCKDH complex in skeletal muscle under normal and resting conditions is in an inactive/phosphorylated state, which may contribute to muscle protein synthesis and muscle growth. Exercise activates the muscle BCKDH complex, resulting in enhanced BCAA catabolism. Therefore, exercise may increase the BCAA requirement. It has been reported that BCAA supplementation before exercise attenuates the breakdown of muscle proteins during exercise in humans and that leucine strongly promotes protein synthesis in skeletal muscle in humans and rats, suggesting that a BCAA supplement may attenuate muscle damage induced by exercise and promote recovery from the damage. We have examined the effects of BCAA supplementation on delayed-onset muscle soreness (DOMS) and muscle fatigue induced by squat exercise in humans. The results obtained showed that BCAA supplementation prior to squat exercise decreased DOMS and muscle fatigue occurring for a few days after exercise. These findings suggest that BCAAs may be useful for muscle recovery following exercise.

PMID: 16424141 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Related ArticlesReviewExercise promotes BCAA catabolism: effects of BCAA supplementation on skeletal muscle during exercise. [J Nutr. 2004] ReviewBranched-chain amino acid catabolism in exercise and liver disease. [J Nutr. 2006] Effects of liver failure on branched-chain alpha-keto acid dehydrogenase complex in rat liver and muscle: comparison between acute and chronic liver failure. [J Hepatol. 2004] Clofibric acid stimulates branched-chain amino acid catabolism by three mechanisms. [Arch Biochem Biophys. 2002] ReviewBranched-chain amino acid supplementation does not enhance athletic performance but affects muscle recovery and the immune system. [J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2008] &#187; See Reviews... | &#187; See All...

[Andre]

I use/sell a BCAA supplement from Allmax called Leutor...
http://www.leutor.com/

[Blue Hefner]

I believe Ajinomoto is carried in Canada. I would use either their products or something that buys their aminos from them. This is as close to pharmaceutical grade as you're going to get. It also alarms me that most companies won't disclose their sources.

Xtreme Formulations uses Ajinomoto amino's, that the product (ICE) I use myself.

[5151]

Here's another one, interesting.

Branched-chain amino acids (BCAA) or a placebo was given to seven subjects during 1 h of ergometer cycle exercise and a 2-h recovery period. Intake of BCAA did not influence the rate of exchange of the aromatic amino acids, tyrosine and phenylalanine, in the legs during exercise or the increase in their concentration in muscle. The increase was approximately 30% in both conditions. On the other hand, in the recovery period after exercise, a faster decrease in the muscle concentration of aromatic amino acids was found in the BCAA experiment (46% compared with 25% in the placebo condition). There was also a tendency to a smaller release (an average of 32%) of these amino acids from the legs during the 2-h recovery. The results suggest that BCAA have a protein-sparing effect during the recovery after exercise, either that protein synthesis has been stimulated and/or protein degradation has decreased, but the data during exercise are too variable to make any conclusions about the effects during exercise. The effect in the recovery period does not seem to be mediated by insulin.

and another

Five male endurance-trained subjects performed exhaustive exercise on a cycle ergometer at a work rate corresponding to 75% of their VO2max after reduction of their muscle glycogen stores. During exercise the subjects were given in random order a 6% carbohydrate solution continuing 7 g L-1 of branched-chain amino acids (BCAA), a 6% CHO solution and flavoured water. The physical performance was lowered in four of the five subjects when they were given flavoured water during exercise as compared with the two conditions when CHO was supplied. No difference in performance was found when the subjects were given CHO + BCAA or only CHO during exercise. When CHO + BCAA was supplied the plasma and muscle (vastus lateralis) concentrations of BCAA increased during exercise by 120 and 35%, respectively. In the other conditions there was no change or a slight decrease in the plasma concentrations of BCAA, but the muscle concentrations of BCAA were decreased after exercise. The plasma concentration of glutamine over the whole exercise period and 5 min after exercise was higher when CHO + BCAA were supplied during exercise compared with a supply of CHO alone or water. However, exercise caused no change in the muscle concentration of glutamine, whereas that of glutamate decreased in all three conditions. A supply of CHO + BCAA or CHO alone did not affect the exercise-induced increase in the plasma and muscle concentration of aromatic amino acids, indicating that neither BCAA nor CHO influenced the net protein degradation during exercise.

What I get from this is that BCAA supplementation pre/during workout does not influence protein degredation during exercise. Probably because for lack of better terms, the body is focusing on doing a lot of other stuff. However, it does seem to positively effect protein synthesis post exercise. So BCAA supplementation post exercise seems to be the most beneficial however pre/during workout may be a way of "priming the pump" (muscle).

do you happen to have the full texts of them? both abstracts given no indication to whether or not the subjects are fasted. if fasted both are essentially irrelevant to the average bber.

[5151]

I use/sell a BCAA supplement from Allmax called Leutor...
http://www.leutor.com/

any data on the reasoning of including KIC in the formulation and what exactly is so potent about it that you cannot exceed two servings daily?

[O-Train]

do you happen to have the full texts of them? both abstracts given no indication to whether or not the subjects are fasted. if fasted both are essentially irrelevant to the average bber.

I will look tomorrow if I get a change. I may have to log on through the University which should have access to the full texts.

[cnelson09]

supplementscanada.com FREE SHIPPING IF YOU SPEND OVER $100.00 AND IT SHIPS FROM CANADA SO THERE IS NO DUTIES OR HIDDEN COST, ive been ordering off this site for a while and never had a problem prices are better then GNC and other nutrition stores, also if spend more than $200.00 they give you free samples and such or other products