help with hcg

[Flex15]

i did my last shot 3 days ago and would like some advice on the best way to run my hcg. iv been on for 4 months my cycle was test c, eq, and drol. i have 10,00 iu of hcg and like i sayed before would just like to hear from you guys some of the methods you guys use i also have clomid to run once done my hcg. thanks for any advice you can give

[gustavo77]

This is what i recommend:

wk 1: 1500iu 2x per week (shot 3-4 days apart), Aroma 25mg/day or adex 1mg/day
wk 2: 1500iu 2x per week, aroma or adex daily
wk 3: 1000iu 2x per week, aroma or adex daily
wk 4: 1000iu 2x per week, aroma or adex daily
wk 5: clomid 50mg/day, aroma or adex daily
wk 6: clomid 50mg/day. aroma or adex daily
wk 7: clomid 50mg/day, aroma or adex daily
wk 8: aroma or adex daily

[kloan]

Do those doses reflect his body weight? They seem high.. for a lighter guy, such as myself, would those be lower?

Also, is that 1500iu 2x week = 3000iu/week?

[nisser]

This is what i recommend:

wk 1: 1500iu 2x per week (shot 3-4 days apart), Aroma 25mg/day or adex 1mg/day
wk 2: 1500iu 2x per week, aroma or adex daily
wk 3: 1000iu 2x per week, aroma or adex daily
wk 4: 1000iu 2x per week, aroma or adex daily
wk 5: clomid 50mg/day, aroma or adex daily
wk 6: clomid 50mg/day. aroma or adex daily
wk 7: clomid 50mg/day, aroma or adex daily
wk 8: aroma or adex daily

I'm confused as to why you wouldn't use nolva/clomid during the initial weeks as well. I certainly always do. There should be a pretty large rebound of estrogen as your test levels drop and the AI isn't always enough to deal with it.

Adding (clomid usually) has kept the man titties away from me.

[theboss]

if it were me i would go...

500iu...EOD until its gone......

then run your clomid.

[Flex15]

when would you guys start with the hcg about 2 weeks from my last shot?

[gustavo77]

Do those doses reflect his body weight? They seem high.. for a lighter guy, such as myself, would those be lower?

Also, is that 1500iu 2x week = 3000iu/week?

body weight does not matter...doses are within range of those prescribed for HRT. Do not forget, his balls have been shut down for a long time..

[gustavo77]

I'm confused as to why you wouldn't use nolva/clomid during the initial weeks as well. I certainly always do. There should be a pretty large rebound of estrogen as your test levels drop and the AI isn't always enough to deal with it.

Adding (clomid usually) has kept the man titties away from me.

Cause taking clomid or nolva with HCG is useless.. HCG mimics and SUPPRESSES LH...the hormone that you are trying to stimulate pituitary production of with the use clomid/nolva...this will not happen while using HCG, so you are wasting your money and putting drugs into your body for no reason...SERM use should start 3-4 days after HCG use has stopped...this will allow 72hrs for HCG to do it;s thing, then we can start stimulating the pituitary again.

[gustavo77]

if it were me i would go...

500iu...EOD until its gone......

then run your clomid.

HCG takes 72hrs to generate peak output of the testes. Taking shots any sooner than this can cause overstimulation and damage the leydig cells of the testes...every 3-4 days is the best way to dose HCG.

[gustavo77]

when would you guys start with the hcg about 2 weeks from my last shot?

Start the HCG immediately...HCG should actually be used on cycle from week one to prevent shut down of the testes...do not wait any longer..the longer you wait to get those boyz started the longer and harder it will be to bounce back.

[gustavo77]

Also, is that 1500iu 2x week = 3000iu/week?


forgot about this one....you are correct... You have to remember that if he was using HCG on cycle for maintainence then 500-1000iu of HCG total per week would be enough. But since the cells of the testes have been shut down and dormant for so long, 500-1000iu/wk would only be mildly effective..

[Flex15]

ok tha nks a ton gus im going to give your method a go. i agree with you that EOD is alot of stimulation. for now on when i cycle im going to run hcg 500iu once a week. i did not have access to up until a short while ago once again thanks for your help your the man lol

[nisser]

Cause taking clomid or nolva with HCG is useless.. HCG mimics and SUPPRESSES LH...the hormone that you are trying to stimulate pituitary production of with the use clomid/nolva...this will not happen while using HCG, so you are wasting your money and putting drugs into your body for no reason...SERM use should start 3-4 days after HCG use has stopped...this will allow 72hrs for HCG to do it;s thing, then we can start stimulating the pituitary again.


I am more worried about gyno, which could be an issue with estrogen rebound after you finish. That's what i've used it for anyway.

[Flex15]

shouldnt the high levels just help me bounce back faster?

[gustavo77]

ok tha nks a ton gus im going to give your method a go. i agree with you that EOD is alot of stimulation. for now on when i cycle im going to run hcg 500iu once a week. i did not have access to up until a short while ago once again thanks for your help your the man lol

No problem bro, anytime... on cycle you are going to want to use HCG a little more frequently....i use it twice per week, ie mon, thurs. 250-500iu each shot.

[gustavo77]

I am more worried about gyno, which could be an issue with estrogen rebound after you finish. That's what i've used it for anyway.

Estrogen and gyno will not be a problem if he is using aromasin or adex with the HCG.

[gustavo77]

shouldnt the high levels just help me bounce back faster?

Yes but high estrogen levels can shut you back down...got to keep estrogen in check during PCT. That's why i recommend aromasin while using HCG and for PCT.

[Flex15]

ya i have adex so ill use that with it.

[RagingRandy]

While we are on the subject of HCG....I have noticed while running it my ejaculations get much bigger. Which would seem in keeping with what it supposed to do. However, the thing I noticed is that the ejaculation is clear and not white. I thought that because it was increasing the sperm count would produce a greater volume of white fluid not clear. I am running 500iu e3d with 600mg\week Test E.

Any thoughts?

[gustavo77]

While we are on the subject of HCG....I have noticed while running it my ejaculations get much bigger. Which would seem in keeping with what it supposed to do. However, the thing I noticed is that the ejaculation is clear and not white. I thought that because it was increasing the sperm count would produce a greater volume of white fluid not clear. I am running 500iu e3d with 600mg\week Test E.

Any thoughts?

HCG mimics LH not FSH and FSH is what triggers sperm production...so even if your boyz are producing test on cycle with HCG, that does not mean they are producing sperm...there are differing opinions on this though, as i got my girl prego on cycle with HCG use...may or may not be related to the HCG use but i like to think that it helps.

[RagingRandy]

HCG mimics LH not FSH and FSH is what triggers sperm production...so even if your boyz are producing test on cycle with HCG, that does not mean they are producing sperm...there are differing opinions on this though, as i got my girl prego on cycle with HCG use...may or may not be related to the HCG use but i like to think that it helps.

Thanks Gus. I value your input. I know that HCG is used for HRT. Is that so natural test production does not get shut down or is it used to stimulate sperm production. Maybe GSXR will chime in.

[gustavo77]

Thanks Gus. I value your input. I know that HCG is used for HRT. Is that so natural test production does not get shut down or is it used to stimulate sperm production. Maybe GSXR will chime in.

Ya, i have also heard of HCG being used for HRT with test but i am not exactly sure why this is done...

[gsxr750]

Because I am young he said I should remain on 350iu 2x a week.. he said this was mainly for fertility.. in case I want kids some day.

[gustavo77]

Because I am young he said I should remain on 350iu 2x a week.. he said this was mainly for fertility.. in case I want kids some day.

Great, thanks for chiming in bro..

[RagingRandy]

Because I am young he said I should remain on 350iu 2x a week.. he said this was mainly for fertility.. in case I want kids some day.

Thanks GSXR....
But the question remains....Does HCG increase sperm production or just have the ability to raise test levels without shutting sperm production down?

[gsxr750]

I'm not sure, if this helps.. he started me on the HCG first, and saw me again 2 months later to see if my condition had improved due to low Test.

After that, I was prescribed Test and told to remain on the HCG. So I would think that by having me try HCG first he was seeing if it would raise my natural test? And then after adding synthetic test it is just to keep sperm production going?

[RagingRandy]

I'm not sure, if this helps.. he started me on the HCG first, and saw me again 2 months later to see if my condition had improved due to low Test.

After that, I was prescribed Test and told to remain on the HCG. So I would think that by having me try HCG first he was seeing if it would raise my natural test? And then after adding synthetic test it is just to keep sperm production going?

Makes sense..... Would you mind asking him on your next visit?

[gsxr750]

Definately. Mid Feb :)

[RagingRandy]

^^^^ You da man. Thanks

[gustavo77]

Makes sense..... Would you mind asking him on your next visit?

Bump. Please do GX...i really need to know.. Some people have been telling me that HCG will do nothing for sperm production...that would suck if this is true.. i want to have more children and have been using HCG religiously on cycle for exactly this purpose.

[RagingRandy]

Chronic human chorionic gonadotropin administration in normal men: evidence that follicle-stimulating hormone is necessary for the maintenance of quantitatively normal spermatogenesis in man
Matsumoto, AM; Karpas, AE; Bremner, WJ
University of Washington School of Medicine, 1986-06

The role of FSH in the maintenance of spermatogenesis in man is poorly understood. To determine whether normal serum levels of FSH are necessary for the maintenance of quantitatively normal spermatogenesis, we first studied the effect on sperm production of selective FSH deficiency induced by chronic administration of hCG in normal men. Then, we determined the effect of FSH replacement in some of these men. After a 3-month control period, eight normal men (aged 30-39 yr) received 5000 IU hCG, im, twice weekly for 7 months. Then while continuing the same dosage of hCG, subjects simultaneously received 200 mg testosterone enanthate (T), im, weekly for an additional 6 months. hCG administration alone resulted in partial suppression of the mean sperm concentration from 88 +/- 24 (+/-SEM) million/ml during the control period to 22 +/- 7 million/ml during the last 4 months of hCG treatment (P less than 0.001 compared to control values). With the addition of T to hCG, sperm counts remained suppressed to the same degree. Except for one man who became azoospermic while receiving hCG plus T, sperm motilities and morphologies remained normal in all subjects throughout the entire study. During both the hCG alone and hCG plus T periods, serum FSH levels were undetectable (less than 25 ng/ml), and urinary FSH levels were comparable to those in prepubertal children and hypogonadotropic hypogonadal adults. We replaced FSH activity in four of the eight men in whom prolonged selective FSH deficiency and partial suppression of sperm production were induced by hCG administration. Immediately after the period of hCG plus T administration, T was stopped in four men who continued to receive hCG alone (5000 IU, im, twice weekly) for 3 months. Then, while continuing the same dosage of hCG, these men received 100 IU human FSH, sc, daily (n = 2) or 75 IU human menopausal gonadotropin, sc, daily (n = 2) for 5-8 months. During the second period of hCG administration alone, serum FSH levels were undetectable (less than 25 ng/ml), and sperm concentrations were suppressed (34 +/- 13 million/ml) compared to the control values for these four men (125 +/- 39 million/ml; P less than 0.001). With the addition of FSH to hCG, FSH levels increased (213 +/- 72 ng/ml) and sperm concentrations rose significantly, reaching a mean of 103 +/- 30 million/ml (P less than 0.03 compared to hCG alone).