Shut Down Hard...

[giannos]

OK as stated, I'm shut down very hard right now. Need some advice and possible suggestions

5 weeks into PCT and my balls are still not 100% to size, I have ZERO desire for sex, porn, to jerk off, to even think about it. If I try to get wood, I can hold an erection for a bit, some days better than others.

Use to have sex 2-3 times a day with my girl now she has gotten it maybe twice in 5 weeks. Needless to say this is causing a problem.

Cycle was:

Test E 600 1-14
Tren E 400 1-12
Cabasar at 500mcg twice a week

*** During cycle had no issues and was hard at a slight breeze ***

No I did not use HCG ( long story )

Current PCT still running:

Clomid 100/100/50/50/50
Aromasin 25/25/25/25


Should I add HCG in now to help me and at what dose?
Is my estrogen too low from the aromasin causing me a loss of libido ?
Should I up the clomid dose to 100 again ?
Should I replace the clomid with Nolva ?

Any one with an aggressive PCT or re-PCT protocol would be great !!!


Thanks Bro's,

G

[gustavo77]

If your boys are not responding to clomid and nolva then they need serious stimulation, namely, HCG.

Drop the clomid and nolva, they are useless while running HCG. HCG will simulate LH and shutdown pituitary production, so nolva and clomid will have no effect. In essence you will be wasting your money...here is what i recommend:

HCG 1000iu e3rd day for three shots, then 500iu e3rd day for 4 shots...wait for 4 days and then start clomid only, 50mg/day for three weeks... continue to run the aromasin throughout, with the HCG and two week past the clomid...

[JonnyO]

Gus gave some good advice similar to what I'd suggest. Look into a product from Species called Testolyze, it helps too.

[St]

Ya run some HCG asap.I like 1 big shot of 5000iu all you will need is 2 shots enjoy the sex 3-5 times a day.Or you can take small dose but longer like GUS said.Back in the day i would vet APL 1500-2500iu per shot max for 2-3 weeks max until i did the whole vial.

[kloan]

From what I've read, Aromasin decreases estrogen by as much as 80%. I'd ditch the Aromasin and try getting some HCG to stimulate your testes back to size.

[BAM]

Sometimes it just takes time..

Did you use HG stuff for pct?

Some might scoff, but I'd say throw some trib in there.

[Felinecougar]

Talking from experiences here. Does the gf know you on? If so explain it.

Keep her happy. Women love to be held, oral sex. Make it all about her. She will wait to make you happy when your able.

Hide you lack of sexual desire reason and she'll leave you.

[giannos]

If your boys are not responding to clomid and nolva then they need serious stimulation, namely, HCG.

Drop the clomid and nolva, they are useless while running HCG. HCG will simulate LH and shutdown pituitary production, so nolva and clomid will have no effect. In essence you will be wasting your money...here is what i recommend:

HCG 1000iu e3rd day for three shots, then 500iu e3rd day for 4 shots...wait for 4 days and then start clomid only, 50mg/day for three weeks... continue to run the aromasin throughout, with the HCG and two week past the clomid...


Thanks Gus, I was hoping you would chime in. I have a bottle of Gaspari Novedex XT ( was given to me ). Should I throw it in ? From what I gather its a test booster and works by lowering estrogen and in turn freeing up some test. ( kinda like aromasin ) Or would that and the Aromasin be too much and lower my estrogen more than needed ?


Gus gave some good advice similar to what I'd suggest. Look into a product from Species called Testolyze, it helps too.

Thanks Jonny, will look into it

[giannos]

Ya run some HCG asap.I like 1 big shot of 5000iu all you will need is 2 shots enjoy the sex 3-5 times a day.Or you can take small dose but longer like GUS said.Back in the day i would vet APL 1500-2500iu per shot max for 2-3 weeks max until i did the whole vial.



Really the whole 5000 in one shot ? I was always under the impression that too large a dose would be suppressive in itself ? interesting....



From what I've read, Aromasin decreases estrogen by as much as 80%. I'd ditch the Aromasin and try getting some HCG to stimulate your testes back to size.

Definitely gonna get some HCG for sure. The Aromasin I am using cause it can raise test by 60 something percent. I don't have the study handy, but basically its from Visions PCT protocol.


Sometimes it just takes time..

Did you use HG stuff for pct?

Some might scoff, but I'd say throw some trib in there.

No Long story, I wanted to use it but some shit happened. Ya I always throw some Trib in my PCT even if its laughed upon. Its cheap and what the hell. the Bulgarian Trib gets some good raves

[giannos]

Talking from experiences here. Does the gf know you on? If so explain it.

Keep her happy. Women love to be held, oral sex. Make it all about her. She will wait to make you happy when your able.

Hide you lack of sexual desire reason and she'll leave you.

Hey thanks for the reply. Nice to have a woman's perspective. My girl knows I am on and helps me with injects and stuff. She is educated on AAS and knows what to expect while I am ON or off . I have been cuddling her like crazy and she loves it, says it brought us closer together. But every once in a while she questions if its her or her body ect.. Thanks for the tip, I will make more of an effort to please her

[gustavo77]

From what I've read, Aromasin decreases estrogen by as much as 80%. I'd ditch the Aromasin and try getting some HCG to stimulate your testes back to size.



Definitely gonna get some HCG for sure. The Aromasin I am using cause it can raise test by 60 something percent. I don't have the study handy, but basically its from Visions PCT protocol.


You will want to suppress estrogen levels during pct...when you use HCG or spike you LH dramatically with a the use of a serm it increases estrogen, and if estrogen gets to high, it can turn on what i believe is called the "negative feedback loop" and shut you down again...

Giannos is correct, not only will aromasin prevent increased estrogen post cycle from shutting the HPTA down again, it has been shown in clinical studies to increase testosterone in males by 60%.

Another thing...when ceasing any SERM or AI other than Aromasin, there will be an estrogen "backlash" of sorts...a distinctive increase in circulating estrodiol. With Aromasin this does not happen. It is a suicidal inhibitor of the Aromatase enzyme...which means to a degree, it actually destroys the enzyme that create estrogen....once you stop taking it, there is no immediate increase in estrogen cause the enzymes are not available to produce it. It will take time for the body to develop these aromatase enzymes again and by the enzymes are back to normal, the HPTA should be stable enough to signal normal estrogen production.

[big_luse]

I ****ing schmammered right now - so I dont know if anyone else has posted this yet. Your prolactin could be elevated from the tren bro ... ive read med lits that have shown Deca and Tren to yeild elevated prolactin for upwards of 6 months when nothings done about it. Keep in mind prolactin is what floods your system immediatley after you blow your load - which initally certainly isnt a time frame where your motivation to do much of anything is basically non existant. With prolactin present it can hinder HPTA recovery and adversly affect normal functon (with someone not on AAS) al the same.

Your best bet IMO is to get a blood workup done. Most important #s should be Total test, LH/FSH, and prolactin.

Self medicating when you know what your after is one thing ... blindly hoping something will work is another. Good luck bro, Im sure it will all be fine

[MoooBaby]

Talking from experiences here. Does the gf know you on? If so explain it.

Keep her happy. Women love to be held, oral sex. Make it all about her. She will wait to make you happy when your able.

Hide you lack of sexual desire reason and she'll leave you.

Unless she's a bitch like my ex who was too selfish to care.

[gustavo77]

I ****ing schmammered right now - so I dont know if anyone else has posted this yet. Your prolactin could be elevated from the tren bro ... ive read med lits that have shown Deca and Tren to yeild elevated prolactin for upwards of 6 months when nothings done about it. Keep in mind prolactin is what floods your system immediatley after you blow your load - which initally certainly isnt a time frame where your motivation to do much of anything is basically non existant. With prolactin present it can hinder HPTA recovery and adversly affect normal functon (with someone not on AAS) al the same.

Your best bet IMO is to get a blood workup done. Most important #s should be Total test, LH/FSH, and prolactin.

Self medicating when you know what your after is one thing ... blindly hoping something will work is another. Good luck bro, Im sure it will all be fine

Bro look at his cycle closely:

"Test E 600 1-14
Tren E 400 1-12
Cabasar at 500mcg twice a week'

Cabaser=dostinex=cabergoline= no prolactin problems...lol..

[kloan]

You will want to suppress estrogen levels during pct...when you use HCG or spike you LH dramatically with a the use of a serm it increases estrogen, and if estrogen gets to high, it can turn on what i believe is called the "negative feedback loop" and shut you down again...

Giannos is correct, not only will aromasin prevent increased estrogen post cycle from shutting the HPTA down again, it has been shown in clinical studies to increase testosterone in males by 60%.

Another thing...when ceasing any SERM or AI other than Aromasin, there will be an estrogen "backlash" of sorts...a distinctive increase in circulating estrodiol. With Aromasin this does not happen. It is a suicidal inhibitor of the Aromatase enzyme...which means to a degree, it actually destroys the enzyme that create estrogen....once you stop taking it, there is no immediate increase in estrogen cause the enzymes are not available to produce it. It will take time for the body to develop these aromatase enzymes again and by the enzymes are back to normal, the HPTA should be stable enough to signal normal estrogen production.
ahh, see I knew there was a reason I liked Aromasin.. but couldn't remember why.. thanks for the explanation.

It's a shame I'm stuck with Arimidex only............

[talon05]

Yes but dont forget tren E will stay around and still have an effect..I would do what was recomended run the HCG and stay on the cebaser/dostinex
that way you still have labido till you get all sorted out...

[trykillthis]

I would say to keep running the coarse you're on. Sometimes it can be a long time to recover completely. I tend to take a while to get libido back. Use that Gaspari stuff and get some trib too. Some cialis wouldn't hurt to keep the ol lady off your back.

[big_luse]

Bro look at his cycle closely:

"Test E 600 1-14
Tren E 400 1-12
Cabasar at 500mcg twice a week'

Cabaser=dostinex=cabergoline= no prolactin problems...lol..

Oh ... my bad. lol. Carry on

[natenator]

Bro look at his cycle closely:

"Test E 600 1-14
Tren E 400 1-12
Cabasar at 500mcg twice a week'

Cabaser=dostinex=cabergoline= no prolactin problems...lol..
he did forewarn being hammered ;)

[giannos]

Thanks for the replies .... Gonna use the HCG and see if that helps "jump" start the boys and use some Cialis in between to keep the old lady at bay...


Thank for the help,

G

[gustavo77]

Yes but dont forget tren E will stay around and still have an effect..I would do what was recomended run the HCG and stay on the cebaser/dostinex
that way you still have labido till you get all sorted out...

This is a good idea...but 15-20 days after the last shot of tren, prolactin show no longer be a problem.

[gustavo77]

he did forewarn being hammered ;)

Ya, he did...that's why i told him to look closely..lol..

[natenator]

its hard to see clearly with the goggles on lol

[gustavo77]

ahh, see I knew there was a reason I liked Aromasin.. but couldn't remember why.. thanks for the explanation.

It's a shame I'm stuck with Arimidex only............

Adex has also be shown in some studies to increase test by up to 50%..

Decreasing estrogen does assist in increasing test levels...high estrogen increases SHBG and lowers free testosterone in the body...this is why i do not understand why people think that taking AI's are bad.

Yes, estrogen is needed for muscle growth but not an excessive amount...infact the male body actually needs only a very moderate amount of estrogen to function normally.

Let's say a guy is taking 400mg of test per week, which is over 4x what a healthy male will produce in a week. How much higher than normal do you think his estrogen levels will be?? Now, if that guy takes a moderate dose of an AI, he should be able to lower the elevated estrogen levels down to about normal range with some tweaking of dosage... some people will need a higher dose and some will need a moderate to very low dose but there is no question that estrogen levels are a fact for males when using Aromatizing AAS and gyno is not the only side effect to worry about from high estrogen levels.

[gustavo77]

its hard to see clearly with the goggles on lol

No shit, i had the goggles on last nite to.. First time drinking since the 2 glasses of wine i had on New Years...5 beers and i was toast...gettin' too old for that shit..time to get back on a diet...

[kloan]

Adex has also be shown in some studies to increase test by up to 50%..

Decreasing estrogen does assist in increasing test levels...high estrogen increases SHBG and lowers free testosterone in the body...this is why i do not understand why people think that taking AI's are bad.

Yes, estrogen is needed for muscle growth but not an excessive amount...infact the male body actually needs only a very moderate amount of estrogen to function normally.

Let's say a guy is taking 400mg of test per week, which is over 4x what a healthy male will produce in a week. How much higher than normal do you think his estrogen levels will be?? Now, if that guy takes a moderate dose of an AI, he should be able to lower the elevated estrogen levels down to about normal range with some tweaking of dosage... some people will need a higher dose and some will need a moderate to very low dose but there is no question that estrogen levels are a fact for males when using Aromatizing AAS and gyno is not the only side effect to worry about from high estrogen levels.
Does that mean that if estrogen is higher than normal, that it can actually eat up some of the free test that's floating around (as in, what we're injecting)? Wouldn't that hinder gains in itself?

[bottleneckblooz]

One thing I'd like to point out is that don't assume that just because your sex drive is low that you are still shut down. After my pct last september, which was HCG and Nolva, my sex drive was low throughout pct and for a few weeks after I was finished my pct. So I got a blood test done to check my test levels. My free test levels came back way above normal! Which blew my mind because I was definately not expecting that. So obviously the pct worked and I'm guessing the low sex drive was because of the low estrogen levels.

[gustavo77]

Does that mean that if estrogen is higher than normal, that it can actually eat up some of the free test that's floating around (as in, what we're injecting)? Wouldn't that hinder gains in itself?

Yes..

[kloan]

It's a shame there isn't a hormone home testing kit... lol