WOW... tried 1RM today on bench and...

[Drummer]

....surprised myself! Threw 275 on bench and did 5 when i thought i might only get 1. For me (training natural and only back at the gym for lil less than a year) thats very good. The ALLMAX supps i take are working great i guess. Im hoping for 315 1RM within a couple weeks. Only problem... elbows dont hold up well to the extra work. Next : 1RM for legs. Thats gonna suck.

~DB~

[L3]

good job man, how much are you weighin now?

[Born2Juice4Ever]

Keep up the great work!! Sounds like you are being careful on your lifts :)


B2J

[Drummer]

im a chubby but pretty thick 190 at 5-8'. I think at 170 id look pretty good... but im not worried about cutting just yet. Ill keep my belly for now. The lil lady can rub it and make a wish. LOL

~DB~

[ironwill]

Good work bro...keep at it....

[L3]

**** bro 315 1rm at 190...natural.. thats pretty insane

[jsv22]

if you can get 275x5 you should be able to get at least 305 for a single!
-jsv

[Shortdave]

Good job man!

[WRJ]

yeah man, thats pretty respectful....specially considering your natural!

[Drummer]

im afraid of the big 315... i think my elbows will cry for a week... but im going to attempt it in a week or 2... creatine is my friend!

[MoooBaby]

im afraid of the big 315... i think my elbows will cry for a week... but im going to attempt it in a week or 2... creatine is my friend!

Not to knock ya, cause being strong is fun, but. Lifting a heavy weight for one rep, doesn't make you all that much bigger. And if you **** an elbow up you;'ll regret it, I promise.

[Shortdave]

Not to knock ya, cause being strong is fun, but. Lifting a heavy weight for one rep, doesn't make you all that much bigger. And if you **** an elbow up you;'ll regret it, I promise.


What about the wonderful effect it has on your CNS?

[MoooBaby]

What about the wonderful effect it has on your CNS?

What's that? (not being sarcastic)

[AlladdinSane]

Central Nervous System.

Side note: A girl in my gym benched 275 tonight to get her name on the members bench board and her boyfriend benched 545 tonight forcing me to add more columns to the board. It was super-fantastic. They're both bodybuilders, he at a top, national level.

[natenator]

What about the wonderful effect it has on your CNS?
If he is bodybuilding it serves no purpose to tax the CNS through reps <5 and most certainly not with 1 rep maxes.

If power/strength training then get'r'dun but by and large excessively taxing the CNS is not a wise idea.

[MoooBaby]

Sorry I meant what was the Benefit, not what is the Central Nervous System.

[O-Train]

I kinda agree. Doing 1RM isn't very beneficial for bodybuilding imo. Loading up the bar with more than your max, finding a good spotter (or two) and doing controlled negatives. That's another story.

[faller]

1RM may not be benificial to BB but it sure is fun to see where a guy is at. I don't think anyone actually works out with 1RM...

[Shortdave]

http://journal.shouxi.net/html/qikan/jcyxyswyxgc/yyslxzz/20048998/wzjh/20080831022557773_390382.html
This study shows that in shortening of muscles under maximal load much more muscle fibres are recruited than when lengthening (negative reps) under maximal load.

And quite seperatly, by training your central nervous system to recruit those extra muscle fibres into play on a semi regular basis your CNS will develop better, more effective muscle fibre recruitment patterns so that more fibres will be used more often.

[Drummer]

interesting...

(i dont train with 1rm, i just do it to see where im at.)

~DB~

[waderow]

i think i might disagree.
if you want to be big, I am a firm believer in lifting big.
Every third WO (or so) should take you to max lift (1rm).
This stimulates fast twitch and increases mass.

However, I think strengthening is accomplished by the 5-7 rep program, and this targets slow twitch,.


So my theory, is target both fast and slow, but fast can only be hit every so often to save tendons, ligaments, joints, and bones....

[waderow]

muscle fibre info:
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/anatomyandphysiology/a/MuscleFiberType.htm

[Drummer]

ive read that fast twitch are better activated +10 reps... but im not sure...


~DB~

[Born2Juice4Ever]

muscle fibre info:
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/anatomyandphysiology/a/MuscleFiberType.htm



I've been noticing that you post good info bro...thank you for doing that :)



B2J

[waderow]

ive read that fast twitch are better activated +10 reps... but im not sure...


~DB~

that doesnt make sense to me. but if its true, then heavy lifts should stimulate slow twitch.
I disagree....but the fibres have different purpose, and logically would be stimulated differently. Logically, stimulating both types would create more mass. and strength...versus just one type.
genetics play a part, but for argument sakes, say we have 50% slow and 50% fast. if youre only really stimulating one type, one owuld think your gains will suffer

[Ritch]

I think the key is finding which body part has which kind of muscle fibers or combination of them and train them in that rep range most the time.

[O-Train]

http://journal.shouxi.net/html/qikan/jcyxyswyxgc/yyslxzz/20048998/wzjh/20080831022557773_390382.html
This study shows that in shortening of muscles under maximal load much more muscle fibres are recruited than when lengthening (negative reps) under maximal load.

And quite seperatly, by training your central nervous system to recruit those extra muscle fibres into play on a semi regular basis your CNS will develop better, more effective muscle fibre recruitment patterns so that more fibres will be used more often.

Interesting read. I think 1RM (especially benchpress) has more risks than benefits for a bodybuilder. I've seen lots of guys attempt 1RM lifts and they are never pretty. Most guys end up either using momentum or other muscle groups to compensate. I know what you're saying about CNS and recruitment patterns. Heavy lifting definitely has it's place in bodybuilding although I don't attempt 1RM lifts.

Now to discuss the article you posted. I'm assuming the study subjects weren't highly trained athletes however that probably doesn't matter considering the variables they were investigating. I wonder though if the body adapts when exercise is more focused around eccentric loading. The other thing is I wonder if voluntary muscle fiber activation is necessary for muscle growth. Do they mean that during eccentric loading that muscle fibers are more involuntarily activated or just not activated at all? I'm not sure on that.

There are a vew ways muscles can "grow". Obviously muscle fiber hypertrophy is one. Another way is when muscle fibers get too big they can split into 2 muscle fibers, although I'm not sure if that happens very often. Also, I remember a discussion I had w/ my Neuromuscular Prof. and she told me that muscle fibers can actually re-model themselves. So a primarily oxidative muscle fiber could become more dependant on glycogen (glycolytic) and so take on more fast twitch characteristics. This is all very dependent on training and is one of the ways the body can adapt to activity.

I always assumed that because the muscles are stronger during eccentric (lengthening) loading that they must be more heavily recruited than during concentric loading. Would a muscle that is under greater load with less voluntary muscle activation sustain more damage? Could that possibly lead to more growth despite lower voluntary activation levels? I imagine the tendons are also recieving much greater loads. Especially considering the increased torque values mentioned in the article.

Does a muscle fiber have to be activated to be damaged and so modify itself through hypertrophy and hyperplasia? If you think of this arguement another way. A well developed CNS would better recruit muscle fibers and so tax them less because they would be working together optimally. This may result in less damage and so less growth. On the other hand better CNS recruitment leads to increased muscle force output and so more weight can be lifted producing more damage and greater hypertrophy. I guess there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Perhaps the isometric hold "extreme stretching" protocols used in DC are what make the program more effective.

[O-Train]

that doesnt make sense to me. but if its true, then heavy lifts should stimulate slow twitch.
I disagree....but the fibres have different purpose, and logically would be stimulated differently. Logically, stimulating both types would create more mass. and strength...versus just one type.
genetics play a part, but for argument sakes, say we have 50% slow and 50% fast. if youre only really stimulating one type, one owuld think your gains will suffer

Fast twitch are larger, much more powerful and more prone to hypertrophy. They are primarily glycolytic so fatigure quickly and are primarily engaged during short maximal contractions.

[faller]

I think the key is finding which body part has which kind of muscle fibers or combination of them and train them in that rep range most the time.


"Orderly Recruitment: All muscles rely on this, large or small, it's just the larger muscles tend to reach full recruitment at much higher effort levels. 85% or so.
Smaller muscles reach full recruitment at lower effort levels, 40-50% on average.

Practical use: The main 'good thing' to know about this, is that you do not have to worry if you 'used all your fibers' during a workout. If you reached 85% or more of maximum effort, (whether it be the first rep with 85% of 1RM or the 12th rep of a lighter set), you have indeed contracted all your fibers. Whether you used them enough for proper stimulation is another subject, BUT, you did recruit all your fibers"........Nwlifter

[AlladdinSane]

:rolleyes: whatever.

[faller]

:rolleyes: whatever.


Or that Lol ... Ya we do over think things don't we...

[O-Train]

Or that Lol ... Ya we do over think things don't we...

Maybe so but I'd rather discuss this than read another "What should my first cycle look like" thread.

Actually the more I think about it the more things make sense. I like knowing why what I do works because then I can improve upon it. You can't get big by accident. Well...at least I can't.

[Drummer]

I think the key is finding which body part has which kind of muscle fibers or combination of them and train them in that rep range most the time.


I try to do this, however i dont know my exact make up lol i just follow certain general guidelines. Like calves, i train high reps.

~DB~

[Drummer]

Maybe so but I'd rather discuss this than read another "What should my first cycle look like" thread.

Actually the more I think about it the more things make sense. I like knowing why what I do works because then I can improve upon it. You can't get big by accident. Well...at least I can't.

Theres nothing wrong with understanding things. Obviously your a thinker and have some education on the subject. The "shut up and train" guys dont think that way. They do however have merit - its mostly about hard work when lifting... however, id rather be the hard worker AND the brains. That way you get the most out of your efforts without wasting time. Time is your most valuable asset. Nobody from either side will argue that... Understanding nutrition, training and rest in depth can maximize your return on investment. I dont know about some of you guys... but i dont have time to be in the gym all the time... real life... work... woman... kids... etc.

Maybe ill get a thread started to chat specifically about this... its gotten off the scope of the threads title lol

~DB~