Next Cycle : Bread and Butter

[Drummer]

Week 1-4 50mg Drol ED
Week 1-12 400 Test E E3D (bout 900/wk)
200 Deca E3D (bout 500/wk)
Week 4-14 500iu HCG E5D (bout 700iu/wk)

PCT
Week 14-18 Nolva 20mg ED
Aromasin or adex for AI ED

Just doin the bread and butter stack. Might use dbol instead of drol. I expect 10 lbs lean mass after shedding the water. Using HCG during cycle this time to prevent shrinkage and speed recovery. Will be on a 3 day split workout regimen. Heavy 6-8 rep ranges. On 4000 cal diet 40:30:30 clean. Weekends cheat. Have been clean for a long time. Should be fun!


~DB~

[St]

Week 1-4 50mg Drol ED
Week 1-12 400 Test E E3D (bout 900/wk)
200 Deca E3D (bout 500/wk)
Week 4-14 500iu HCG E5D (bout 700iu/wk)

PCT
Week 14-18 Nolva 20mg ED
Aromasin or adex for AI ED

Just doin the bread and butter stack. Might use dbol instead of drol. I expect 10 lbs lean mass after shedding the water. Using HCG during cycle this time to prevent shrinkage and speed recovery. Will be on a 3 day split workout regimen. Heavy 6-8 rep ranges. On 4000 cal diet 40:30:30 clean. Weekends cheat. Have been clean for a long time. Should be fun!


~DB~

Bread&butter is TNT.I would go with t-bol or var over d-bol it just water d-bol.

[Bowlcut]

4000 calories is nothing unless you are 5'2".
It could work if you carbed up every 4th day or so, or on the weekends.

[Drummer]

4000 calories is nothing unless you are 5'2".
It could work if you carbed up every 4th day or so, or on the weekends.

I carb up on the weekends. Im only 5-8 and gain pretty easy. im at 190 right now 15%bf. If i dont see proper gains, i can bump to 5000cal/day. Any higher than that for me and i put on a lot of fat no matter how much i train for some reason.

~DB~

[Drummer]

Bread&butter is TNT.I would go with t-bol or var over d-bol it just water d-bol.

TNT? Never heard bread and butter stack called TNT before... always test/deca/dbol. No matter tho, its all relative. Ive never tried t-bol but var gives me crazy headaches. It works but wow... headaches. I could check out the t-bol tho.

~DB~

[St]

TNT? Never heard bread and butter stack called TNT before... always test/deca/dbol. No matter tho, its all relative. Ive never tried t-bol but var gives me crazy headaches. It works but wow... headaches. I could check out the t-bol tho.

~DB~


Once you try TN out you won't mess with any other compounds,then it will become your bread&butter.T-bol is amazing stuff no water,and you get enough water from test.

[ironwill]

Week 1-4 50mg Drol ED
Week 1-12 400 Test E E3D (bout 900/wk)
200 Deca E3D (bout 500/wk)
Week 4-14 500iu HCG E5D (bout 700iu/wk)

PCT
Week 14-18 Nolva 20mg ED
Aromasin or adex for AI ED

Just doin the bread and butter stack. Might use dbol instead of drol. I expect 10 lbs lean mass after shedding the water. Using HCG during cycle this time to prevent shrinkage and speed recovery. Will be on a 3 day split workout regimen. Heavy 6-8 rep ranges. On 4000 cal diet 40:30:30 clean. Weekends cheat. Have been clean for a long time. Should be fun!


~DB~

Thats a lot of gear for a 190 lber IMO.....
Why not just straight good ol test???
IMO, all gains from a bombs, or dbol are very temporary and drop off to fast to be worthwhile to use...
I see you know your stuff from recent articles i have perused written by you...so im not questioning your Knowledge, just wondering why with all due respect..

[gustavo77]

Week 1-4 50mg Drol ED
Week 1-12 400 Test E E3D (bout 900/wk)
200 Deca E3D (bout 500/wk)
Week 4-14 500iu HCG E5D (bout 700iu/wk)

PCT
Week 14-18 Nolva 20mg ED
Aromasin or adex for AI ED

Just doin the bread and butter stack. Might use dbol instead of drol. I expect 10 lbs lean mass after shedding the water. Using HCG during cycle this time to prevent shrinkage and speed recovery. Will be on a 3 day split workout regimen. Heavy 6-8 rep ranges. On 4000 cal diet 40:30:30 clean. Weekends cheat. Have been clean for a long time. Should be fun!


~DB~

Cycle looks solid. The only thing i would change would be the HCG run it from the start, shut down begins from the very first shot/pill of gear that you take. Run the HCG 2x per week for the sake of simplicity, as HCG causes peak output of the testes in 72hrs.

[Drummer]

To answer the 2 previous posts...

I have done TNT, but the tren gives me crazy sides, anxiety, BP everything. I get shut down so hard that recovery is very long, even with all the right PCT stuff. I do like it tho, just really sensetive to it.

As for test? I love the test alone, but my joints have a hard time with the fast rise in strenght. Thats why i have the deca in there. I only use the aboms or dbols for a quick boost to get me rollin - more like a good jumpstart. I may however just get some prop and jump with that for first few. I could prolly get away with 600test 400deca/wk since ive been off for so long tho... your prolly right. I have a habbit of wanting to do more than i need lol

~DB~

[ironwill]

To answer the 2 previous posts...

I have done TNT, but the tren gives me crazy sides, anxiety, BP everything. I get shut down so hard that recovery is very long, even with all the right PCT stuff. I do like it tho, just really sensetive to it.

As for test? I love the test alone, but my joints have a hard time with the fast rise in strenght. Thats why i have the deca in there. I only use the aboms or dbols for a quick boost to get me rollin - more like a good jumpstart. I may however just get some prop and jump with that for first few. I could prolly get away with 600test 400deca/wk since ive been off for so long tho... your prolly right. I have a habbit of wanting to do more than i need lol

~DB~
ahhh i see, thanks for the reply...appreciated....I am a fan of the prop kickstart myself...I am a test is best fan....I do however like to throw some ggodies in there once my bf gets lower to have a more pronounced effect persay, like masteron for dryness....how do you feel on proviron for estrogen control, do you believe it is beneficial, as i dont like anti es, if i dont need them...??
IMO, the deca wont even be starting to give you the benefits you seek when the test is working its magic, have you tried NPP???Faster acting deca....?

[Drummer]

ahhh i see, thanks for the reply...appreciated....I am a fan of the prop kickstart myself...I am a test is best fan....I do however like to throw some ggodies in there once my bf gets lower to have a more pronounced effect persay, like masteron for dryness....how do you feel on proviron for estrogen control, do you believe it is beneficial, as i dont like anti es, if i dont need them...??
IMO, the deca wont even be starting to give you the benefits you seek when the test is working its magic, have you tried NPP???Faster acting deca....?

I know proviron (if you get good stuff) works well cause any anti-e for me makes my joints hurt. I need the estrogen to control inflamation. Proviron starts my joints aching in 3-4 days. Masteron is a great one because of its unique effects with very little sides. Some long time users i know love test/masteron for a perfect cycle. Ive used npp, but dont mix long/short esters anymore. I use npp/prop for great results, but its costly and i poke every day. It works tho! Deca should start to work at about week 4is, no? Im mostly looking at it for joint wellness... but it bulks me up good too. There are so many options, i dont even know where to begin!

And about the anti-e's. I dont use em while on, especially nolva, unless i absolutely need them. At these doses, i know i wont. Maybe a small dose of adex while on the keep off a little water. I dont want to reduce estro too much - it is an important hormone in the bulking process. I use an AI, SERM and HCG to control atrophy/recovery. Its what ive found works best for me.


~DB~

[ironwill]

I know proviron (if you get good stuff) works well cause any anti-e for me makes my joints hurt. I need the estrogen to control inflamation. Proviron starts my joints aching in 3-4 days. Masteron is a great one because of its unique effects with very little sides. Some long time users i know love test/masteron for a perfect cycle. Ive used npp, but dont mix long/short esters anymore. I use npp/prop for great results, but its costly and i poke every day. It works tho! Deca should start to work at about week 4is, no? Im mostly looking at it for joint wellness... but it bulks me up good too. There are so many options, i dont even know where to begin!

And about the anti-e's. I dont use em while on, especially nolva, unless i absolutely need them. At these doses, i know i wont. Maybe a small dose of adex while on the keep off a little water. I dont want to reduce estro too much - it is an important hormone in the bulking process. I use an AI, SERM and HCG to control atrophy/recovery. Its what ive found works best for me.


~DB~

I must say i really like the way you think...very refreshing, and i agree 100percent...
i use and love masteron and test, and dont like anti es for the exact same reasons as yopu mentioned..
Good stuff..
Im do use NPP for bulking and go 125 mgs of enanthate, and 100 mg of npp m/w/f...I know it isnt perfect but it works nice....they say 250 mgs of enanthate e3days keeps you nice and level without a frontload....Thats what i run if im well into my cycle and doing test only...I personally only go @ 250 per week until gains slow, then i bump up a tad, for offseason, then when i diet things change up a tad...
Good luck

[kloan]

And about the anti-e's. I dont use em while on, especially nolva, unless i absolutely need them. At these doses, i know i wont. Maybe a small dose of adex while on the keep off a little water. I dont want to reduce estro too much - it is an important hormone in the bulking process. I use an AI, SERM and HCG to control atrophy/recovery. Its what ive found works best for me.


~DB~
I've come to this realization myself. I just stopped taking the adex that I've been running since day 1 at .5mg eod. I found it was reducing my estro too much (joints sore, limited gains). I strongly feel I would have been much better off using .25mg eod like so many people suggested when I was researching, but no one offers it in those doses!

I have a feeling my gains are going to be a little better dropping the adex. Hopefully, it won't throw things out of whack (sides).

[ironwill]

I've come to this realization myself. I just stopped taking the adex that I've been running since day 1 at .5mg eod. I found it was reducing my estro too much (joints sore, limited gains). I strongly feel I would have been much better off using .25mg eod like so many people suggested when I was researching, but no one offers it in those doses!

I have a feeling my gains are going to be a little better dropping the adex. Hopefully, it won't throw things out of whack (sides).
your HDL/LDL ratios will thank-you as well bro....

[Drummer]

I've come to this realization myself. I just stopped taking the adex that I've been running since day 1 at .5mg eod. I found it was reducing my estro too much (joints sore, limited gains). I strongly feel I would have been much better off using .25mg eod like so many people suggested when I was researching, but no one offers it in those doses!

I have a feeling my gains are going to be a little better dropping the adex. Hopefully, it won't throw things out of whack (sides).


dont use any at all if you dont get itchy nips... watch to see what happens... keep the ai and serm on hand

~DB~

[Drummer]

I must say i really like the way you think...very refreshing, and i agree 100percent...
i use and love masteron and test, and dont like anti es for the exact same reasons as yopu mentioned..
Good stuff..
Im do use NPP for bulking and go 125 mgs of enanthate, and 100 mg of npp m/w/f...I know it isnt perfect but it works nice....they say 250 mgs of enanthate e3days keeps you nice and level without a frontload....Thats what i run if im well into my cycle and doing test only...I personally only go @ 250 per week until gains slow, then i bump up a tad, for offseason, then when i diet things change up a tad...
Good luck

i like how you use low dose... if thats u in the pic its oin prettty good...

id rather be the guy that knows a lot and uses little, than the guy who uses a lot and knows little,

~DB~

[Crankin'steiN]

And about the anti-e's. I dont use em while on, especially nolva, unless i absolutely need them. At these doses, i know i wont. Maybe a small dose of adex while on the keep off a little water. I dont want to reduce estro too much - it is an important hormone in the bulking process. I use an AI, SERM and HCG to control atrophy/recovery. Its what ive found works best for me.


~DB~

Thank the lord.... Someone gets it!! lol I have preached about not being afraid of the estro during a bulking cycle for as long as I have been on the boards and I started back in 1999 or so...... Water is also your friend although you may look bloated you will be heavier and stronger which ultimately results in more muscle gain....

Test/deca/dbol is a great stack and I have to whole heartidly disagree with smart-tony that dbol is all water gain as it definitely is not and didn't gain it's popularity as a mass builder for no reason.... tbol is a great drug as well but if you aren't scared of a bit of water then dbol is a better bang for your buck every time!

[ironwill]

i like how you use low dose... if thats u in the pic its oin prettty good...

id rather be the guy that knows a lot and uses little, than the guy who uses a lot and knows little,

~DB~
Yeah its me, and thanks..i appreciate that....I am still learning as we all are...We are science in progress...lol

[Drummer]

Thank the lord.... Someone gets it!! lol I have preached about not being afraid of the estro during a bulking cycle for as long as I have been on the boards and I started back in 1999 or so...... Water is also your friend although you may look bloated you will be heavier and stronger which ultimately results in more muscle gain....

Test/deca/dbol is a great stack and I have to whole heartidly disagree with smart-tony that dbol is all water gain as it definitely is not and didn't gain it's popularity as a mass builder for no reason.... tbol is a great drug as well but if you aren't scared of a bit of water then dbol is a better bang for your buck every time!

While its true that dbol adds lots of water, i also know it adds mass. I get where tony is coming from though, cause some guys dont respond well to it. They just get water, then its gone. For me, it works real well at low doses (30mg a day is often enought for me)

~DB~

[Solo59]

Hey Drummer, that sounds like a pretty intense bread&butter cycle. That's a lot of Test, but I guess you know what you're going for.

Hope you found all you were looking for.

Solo

[MoooBaby]

I would up calories bro, and I would expect more than 10lbs from that cycle. If time is a factor with the food, just throw in three or four 500cal shakes a day.

[Drummer]

I have an upper limit to the amount of calories i can take in shakes. If i go too high, ill get the runs. I have to add lots of fiber to get it to work, along with super high quality isolates. Its do-able, just expensive as all hell.

~DB~

[MoooBaby]

Yeah I'm the same way, I find if I use Isoflex, 20ish grams of fat from Natty PB or a 3-6-9 blend and a scoop of a fibre source, and eat it with a piece of fruit I'm good to go :D

The food is definately the expensive part of the process.