diet or cardio

[logicborn]

I know nutrition is important in bodybuilding, but when dieting, which should a person manipulate first? Diet or cardio.

[purelife]

both :)

[gsxr750]

Cardio wont do anything if you're eating poorly.. get your diet in check.

[69challenger]

Diet makes all the difference

[natenator]

Cardio wont do anything if you're eating poorly.. get your diet in check.
I could be wrong but I took his question to read: assuming diet is in check... when you hit a stall in your progress should diet or more cardio be the first to change?

Depending on how a person is dieting, I would change cardio first before chaging diet. Doing both at the same time is a bad idea. You'll get progress going again but you want to have multiple tricks in your bag. Adjust cardio and ride that until you make some progress, adjust cardio again when progress stalls. The last item should be diet. Doing one at a time will ensure progress continues and doesn't stall out because using the both methodology means you will get to a point where both can't be manipulated.

[gsxr750]

Good post!

[fathead]

diet diet diet. you can get shredded with no cardio if your diet is right. you cant say the same about the reverse

[logicborn]

I could be wrong but I took his question to read: assuming diet is in check... when you hit a stall in your progress should diet or more cardio be the first to change?

Depending on how a person is dieting, I would change cardio first before chaging diet. Doing both at the same time is a bad idea. You'll get progress going again but you want to have multiple tricks in your bag. Adjust cardio and ride that until you make some progress, adjust cardio again when progress stalls. The last item should be diet. Doing one at a time will ensure progress continues and doesn't stall out because using the both methodology means you will get to a point where both can't be manipulated.

Natenater, this is exactlly what I was looking for. Thank you so much.
Thanks to everyone else for their feedback as well.
Cheers

[logicborn]

My bad... I guess I should have been more explicit in the way I posed that question.

[Ritch]

Natenator`s post is very well said. Keep some tricks in the bag for when you get stuck.

[natenator]

diet diet diet. you can get shredded with no cardio if your diet is right. you cant say the same about the reverse
incorect.

[Ritch]

I get can get very lean with no cardio, depends on your body type.

[natenator]

I get can get very lean with no cardio, depends on your body type.
shredded was the word being used. I know 2 IFBB pro and not even they can get into contest shape without cardio. Granted their dieting is 8-10 weeks long so I guess if given enough time anyone can get shredded without cardio.

Thoese who can do it to competition condition AND in a regular contest prep period (12-20 weeks( are few and far between.

[NorthOf60]

From what I have always been told and read. Diet is 70% for muscle gain and weight loss. Cardio is super important as well for weight loss. Also you can never go wrong with a stronger heart.

[Ritch]

shredded was the word being used. I know 2 IFBB pro and not even they can get into contest shape without cardio. Granted their dieting is 8-10 weeks long so I guess if given enough time anyone can get shredded without cardio.

Thoese who can do it to competition condition AND in a regular contest prep period (12-20 weeks( are few and far between.

Actually logicborn never used the word shredded.

[VINZI]

both :)

wrong..you should adjust or change one variable at a time ..not both

[natenator]

Actually logicborn never used the word shredded.
follow each thread in the post and you'll read that fathead used the word shredded.

Reading comprehension is a pretty neat skillset ;)

[Ritch]

follow each thread in the post and you'll read that fathead used the word shredded.

Reading comprehension is a pretty neat skillset ;)

Uh, since the thread is about logicborn I was refering to him, I did see the term shredded use by fathead. But would agree with you saying to get shredded, 98% of people would need to do cardio.

[69challenger]

I get can get very lean with no cardio, depends on your body type.

me too. I've competed (and won) in the past with NO cardio

[O-Train]

me too. I've competed (and won) in the past with NO cardio

me too.

[fathead]

most people implement cardio to get contest ready but not all. there are a few big name trainers out there now who use no cardio for their competitors prep.

personally, i use cardio, it can let you get away with more and eat some more calories, but you dont need it it get shredded if everything else is ideal.

[logicborn]

most people implement cardio to get contest ready but not all. there are a few big name trainers out there now who use no cardio for their competitors prep.

personally, i use cardio, it can let you get away with more and eat some more calories, but you dont need it it get shredded if everything else is ideal.

So are you guys implying that a person can drop around 12% BF without cardio and just manipulating diet??

[gsxr750]

Sure, turn your weight training into your cardio... working for me... super sets, high intensity weight training.

[natenator]

Sure, turn your weight training into your cardio... working for me... super sets, high intensity weight training.
and how long has it taken you to do it? As a woman 69C does not need to get as lean as men. OH has done it but I doubt he had to drop more than 8% BF to do it.

It can be done for the genetic freaks out there but I still contend that 99.5% of people cannot do it in a reasonable time frame without some form of cardio.

[gsxr750]

I don't know how it works but my thought process says.. HIIT on an olyptical for 30 mins works...

So why wouldn't doing the same thing with your heart rate on weights instead - do the same to your body?

I had some help w/ supplements, but with a strict Keto diet and NO cardio i've dropped 22% body fat in about 5 months

That said.. i'm sure I will implement some form of consistant cardio once my progress slows, but until then.. screw it! Cardio is boring!!! :

[O-Train]

and how long has it taken you to do it? As a woman 69C does not need to get as lean as men. OH has done it but I doubt he had to drop more than 8% BF to do it.

It can be done for the genetic freaks out there but I still contend that 99.5% of people cannot do it in a reasonable time frame without some form of cardio.

I did it very slowly. Less than 1lb/wk. I found that I maintain muscle better if I avoid cardio. Although I still walked a lot, it wouldn't work as well if you didn't do anything.

[logicborn]

I don't know how it works but my thought process says.. HIIT on an olyptical for 30 mins works...

So why wouldn't doing the same thing with your heart rate on weights instead - do the same to your body?

I had some help w/ supplements, but with a strict Keto diet and NO cardio i've dropped 22% body fat in about 5 months

That said.. i'm sure I will implement some form of consistant cardio once my progress slows, but until then.. screw it! Cardio is boring!!! :


22% BF change in 5 months?
What supps did u use? If u don't mind sharing, and how is the keto? I am wanting to start it in a wk.
Going from 320 to about 250

[gsxr750]

-Low dose test ( started at 125mg/week and currently at 250mg/week )
-HCG 350iu 2x a week
-24mg ephedrine + 200mg caffeine 3x a day
-Multivitamin, Vitamin C..

Keto is tough for the first few days, very tough. But after that it's much better.. cravings go away, Ephedrine helps with the appetite. Good luck!

[logicborn]

-Low dose test ( started at 125mg/week and currently at 250mg/week )
-HCG 350iu 2x a week
-24mg ephedrine + 200mg caffeine 3x a day
-Multivitamin, Vitamin C..

Keto is tough for the first few days, very tough. But after that it's much better.. cravings go away, Ephedrine helps with the appetite. Good luck!


How much did u weigh when you started?
Just test(what kind Leaning towards prop) don't want to waery bloaty look
Educate me on HCG

[logicborn]

-Low dose test ( started at 125mg/week and currently at 250mg/week )
-HCG 350iu 2x a week
-24mg ephedrine + 200mg caffeine 3x a day
-Multivitamin, Vitamin C..

Keto is tough for the first few days, very tough. But after that it's much better.. cravings go away, Ephedrine helps with the appetite. Good luck!


How did you cycle your ECA?

[gsxr750]

LOL we're kinda jacking this thread just PM me bud

[fathead]

i would argue the more fat you have to lose the less important cardio is in relation to diet. (this is assuming you arent trying to get lean as fast as possible). obviously adding cardio MAY help to speed up the process, but there are those out there who will tell you it will actually be detrimental (i dont agree with this but thats another thread all together).

getting from 10% to 6% is WAY harder than getting from 20% to 10%. 99.5% of the population doesnt NEED cardio to get to 10% bf.

[natenator]

i would argue the more fat you have to lose the less important cardio is in relation to diet. (this is assuming you arent trying to get lean as fast as possible). obviously adding cardio MAY help to speed up the process, but there are those out there who will tell you it will actually be detrimental (i dont agree with this but thats another thread all together).

getting from 10% to 6% is WAY harder than getting from 20% to 10%. 99.5% of the population doesnt NEED cardio to get to 10% bf.
and that's tyhe criteria I was going with when I suggest cardio was needed to get to that "shredded" competition condition. Majority of people do need cardio.

[fathead]

and that's tyhe criteria I was going with when I suggest cardio was needed to get to that "shredded" competition condition. Majority of people do need cardio.

i still dont agree. id say most people will have better luck using cardio, but if the diet is spot on i wouldnt say most people need it

[logicborn]

-Low dose test ( started at 125mg/week and currently at 250mg/week )
-HCG 350iu 2x a week
-24mg ephedrine + 200mg caffeine 3x a day
-Multivitamin, Vitamin C..

Keto is tough for the first few days, very tough. But after that it's much better.. cravings go away, Ephedrine helps with the appetite. Good luck!


How did u decide what dosage of T to run, and what kind did u take?
As I eluded to earlier, I was leaning towards prop but not completely sold on the frequency of shots.

[gsxr750]

Only reason i'd say prop is if it's your first time using test so you can see how you react to it.. and get it in and out of your system FAST if required.

Doc put me on 125mg Test E 1x a week. I am now taking 125mg Test E 2x a week with less sides on a higher dose just more stable blood levels.

125mg Test E Sun
125mg Test E Thurs

Good luck! Stay strict on your diet and training

[ironwill]

and that's tyhe criteria I was going with when I suggest cardio was needed to get to that "shredded" competition condition. Majority of people do need cardio.

Why do you say most people???I went from 278 to 245 with not 1 step of cardio, at 245 i had veins in my abs and not quite contest ready but only a few percent away, then we had to move and contest prep ceased....I will let you know how it goes as i just started prep again on monday, with no cardio at all...I am starting at a hard 255 this time and only have around 15 lbs to drop to be shredded wheat...I am being trained by a pro, who never uses cardio either...No-one can say what the majority or minority needs to get lean...Because no-one does the same stuff all the time, this can be debated for-ever....Try both and see what feels the best and keeps you most interested and primed...That is what works best....In other words , what works best is what you can do consistently for at least 3 months while seeing consistent results...

[natenator]

Why do you say most people???I went from 278 to 245 with not 1 step of cardio, at 245 i had veins in my abs and not quite contest ready but only a few percent away, then we had to move and contest prep ceased....I will let you know how it goes as i just started prep again on monday, with no cardio at all...I am starting at a hard 255 this time and only have around 15 lbs to drop to be shredded wheat...I am being trained by a pro, who never uses cardio either...No-one can say what the majority or minority needs to get lean...Because no-one does the same stuff all the time, this can be debated for-ever....Try both and see what feels the best and keeps you most interested and primed...That is what works best....In other words , what works best is what you can do consistently for at least 3 months while seeing consistent results...
what makes me say most? Experience having been in the game for 17 years. Know several high-level competitors, trainers and two IFBB pros.

You are 15lbs away from being contest ready? You are not the majority of competitors ;) And again, I will repeat a lot of it depends on the nutritional strategy that you employ. If you employ low cals (under 2K) with a refeed day then cardio won't be needed as much if at all.

I am taking the average person/competitor out there as the majority and who don't have 5+ months to get very lean.

Kudo's to you though if you can do it without cardio. I definitely cannot :(

[ironwill]

I am only that close to contest weight because i was just dieting to compete in November, then we had to move due to our jobs, and i am staying lean this time and started prep again this week..
I will definitley be tubbier when done..lol..
It is a very controversial subject and i personally know a couple pros, and top level national guys and 2 never do cardio, 1 even does his whole diet and prep while on D-bol and sust....and subway most days....Goes against everything that is SUPPOSED to be...
Peace,
good discussion, but i guarantee, the answer will not come out in this thread...
Happy new yr

[fathead]

what makes me say most? Experience having been in the game for 17 years. Know several high-level competitors, trainers and two IFBB pros.

You are 15lbs away from being contest ready? You are not the majority of competitors ;) And again, I will repeat a lot of it depends on the nutritional strategy that you employ. If you employ low cals (under 2K) with a refeed day then cardio won't be needed as much if at all.

I am taking the average person/competitor out there as the majority and who don't have 5+ months to get very lean.

Kudo's to you though if you can do it without cardio. I definitely cannot :(

your still comparing what strategy most USE and what most people NEED. you just mentioned if you used a certain strategy you wouldnt need much if any cardio. just because most people use cardio as part of their program to get lean doesnt mean they need to. again, im not against cardio, but the debate here has become "do you NEED cardio to get lean." not "do most people USE cardio to get lean"

[ironwill]

what makes me say most? Experience having been in the game for 17 years. Know several high-level competitors, trainers and two IFBB pros.

You are 15lbs away from being contest ready? You are not the majority of competitors ;) And again, I will repeat a lot of it depends on the nutritional strategy that you employ. If you employ low cals (under 2K) with a refeed day then cardio won't be needed as much if at all.

I am taking the average person/competitor out there as the majority and who don't have 5+ months to get very lean.

Kudo's to you though if you can do it without cardio. I definitely cannot :(
im quite a lot over 2000 calories per day when cutting fat.......

[natenator]

im quite a lot over 2000 calories per day when cutting fat.......
So am I. But I know guys who diet 6 days on 1500-2000 cals and on the 7th day will do a 7000-10000cal refeed.

Hence my comment on which nutritional strategy people employ. Lots of ways to skin the cat. I truly believe if cardio was not needed then people would not do it. Who really WANTS to do cardio? I sure as hell don't. I've competed many times and everytime has been with the addition of cardio and I use top-level pro trainers.

[ironwill]

Its all about learning what is best for the individuals requirements....
I still feel if there isnt excessive calories being ingested, then why would one need to do extra cardio, or calorie burning....
I believe it lies within what type of calories are being taken in....and at what time...
IE, fats only after 4pm, for example...Or very low carb days and medium fats and protein days etc....Why would one do cardio if already in a calorie deficit???
What would burn first after the energy storeds are depleted....It sure as heck isnt going to be fat first, if your body isnt accustomed to burning fat for fuel....It will become catabolic and hence begin catabolizing muscle tissue first....
By all means if the bodybuilder cant control his calories, or isnt sure of caloric partitioning, then yeah do cardio, it is better than nothing, i believe in preservation of what one has built in the offseason..

Nate, where have you competed??? I would like to see a couple of pics, out of my own curiousity.....Not trying to be challenging whatsoever, nor disrespectfull, i am curious as to how you turned out in your competitions and maybe ill change my mindset....I am openminded, so far some of the best muscled folks ive seen , had very little cardio if any....
Alas i am still learning...