first cycle help

[smukker]

Trying to put together a very first cycle, constructive criticism welcome.
I was thinking of runiing a 15 week cycle of Test E 600 mg/week kick started by a 4 week cycle of dbol 40 mg ed.

I was just wondering if anyone could give me advice for exactly i would need for PCT for this cycle. I know nolva, but some people say nolva and clomid. sorry very first time and dont wanna mess this up.

[smukker]

is 15 weeks too long?? my test comes in 5 weeks a vial, so 10 weeks is too short, so i thought 15 was a good length

[waderow]

sure, why not. most would recommend test only for 1st cycle, but i am not most LOL

what are you stats? age, lifting experience, weight, bf%

PCT is very simple, but you may want to consider having an ancillary on hand in case of estrogen related sides.

For PCT, I would hit HCG for 2 weeks after last jab at 2500iu per week, then clomid at 100mg per day ED for a week, then 50mg ED for 4-5 weeks.

[smukker]

Stats:
6"2
216 as of right now (cutting for mexico)
240 normally
bf not too sure pretty cut right now.

Eat very clean, 6-8 small meals a day, no junk at all

315 1rm bench
365 deadlift
Been lifting for most of my adult life, seriously now for 3 years.
I am ready to take things to the next level now.
sorry but i cant find info on HCG and i cant seem to find any around.

[Descimus]

hcg human cronic gonatropin (ball regrower) if you do 15 week might be usefull to invest in hcg, longer you run gear the more your system shut down, hcg will help reduce the time to fully recuperate from the cycle. This was taken from somewhere else :

HCG
(human chorionic gonadotropin)

Scientists first recognized a specific hormone now called Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) in the 1920´s (1). HCG is no doubt one of the most misused, misunderstood and underutilized tools in bodybuilding pharmacology we have available. HCG is not a steroid, but a naturally occurring peptide hormone, produced by the embryo in the early stages of pregnancy and later by the trophoblast (part of the placenta) to help control a pregnant woman´s hormones (1). This makes the uterine lining ready for implantation of the fertilized egg. HCG is a glycoprotein composed of 237 amino acids and has a mass of 36.7kDa. HCG basically "acts" as Leutenizing Hormone (LH) in your body. LH is a Gonadotropin. They were first extracted from the human in 1958; more precisely the pituitary glands. A gonadotropin is any substance that stimulates the gonads (ovary, testes). It is heterodimeric (initiates prophase of mitosis) with an alpha subunit identical to LH (luteinizing hormone), FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone). LH is as stated above is called a gonadotropin because it stimulates the gonads (testes). It is produced in the pituitary cells and is made up of a beta chain of 115 amino acids and an alpha chain of 89 amino acids. In the testes, the LH binds to receptors on the leydig cells which in turn stimulate the synthesis and secretion of testosterone. Like LH, FSH is also called a gonadotropin. It consists of a beta chain of 115 amino acids and an alpha chain of 89 amino acids, the same as LH. Production and release of FSH is controlled by GnRH (gonadotropin releasing hormone). FSH stimulates testicular growth and supports the function of sertoli cells, which are needed for sustaining maturing sperm cells. TSH is also known as a thyrotropin and is secreted by cells in the anterior pituitary glands. TSH is comprised of a beta chain of 112 amino acids and an alpha chain of 89 amino acids. The alpha chain is the same as that found in the two other pituitary hormones, LH and FSH, and HCG as well. TSH is produced when the hypothalamus releases TRH (thyrotropin releasing hormone). TRH then causes the pituitary gland to release.

TSH. TSH makes the thyroid gland produce triiodothyronin (T3) and thyroxine (T4), which controls the body´s metabolism.
HCG LEVELS & Pregnancy

HCG is clinically used to induce ovulation and treat ovarian disorders in women, as well stimulate the testes hypogonadal (underproduction of testosterone) men. It is also used in the treatment of undescended testicles in young males. HCG offers no potential performance enhancement in female athletes, but does prove to be very useful in male athletes especially those that use AAS. As stated above HCG in males is similar to LH, because they are similar and LH binds to receptors on leydig cells stimulating synthesis and secretion of testosterone, the use of HCG would be an added bonus to ASS users even if there is a lack of endogenous LH. Since HCG increases the body´s natural testosterone levels its use during long or extremely high dosed cycles can be most beneficial were the effects on the hypothalamus causes a depressed signal to the testicles. The result of the depressed signal leads to what is known as testicular atrophy (shrunken nuts). The use of HCG will send an artificial signal to the testes (again, as if it were actually LH), thus preventing (to some degree) atrophy. It not only helps to maintain testicular size and condition but it will also help in restoring testicles back to their original size. At a time when below normal androgen levels (due to ASS use) could become costly. Restarting natural testosterone production as quickly as possible is of a special concern in males at the end of a cycle of AAS. The price paid by bodybuilders for failing to raise natural test levels is the loss of most if not all the hard earned muscle you have gained, the main cause is cortisol. Cortisol sends a message to the muscles that is opposite to that of testosterone. If cortisol is not dealt with (because of an extremely low testosterone level) it will quickly strip away the new and hard earned muscle you have just gotten.

Some users find that they have better gains and quicker recovery while using HCG during a cycle of AAS. This first claim is more than likely due to the fact that the body has a high level of natural testosterone as well as that provided by the use of AAS, and the second may be somewhat justifiable, as stimulating the testes to secrete testosterone intermittently may aid recovery. Perhaps this is due to the maintenence of a higher level of Inter-Testicular-Testosterone (ITT) provided by the intermittent use of HCG, which should greatly aid recovery of the hypothalamic-testicular-pituitary-axis. An average dose of HCG during a cycle is between 500iu to 1000iu every week to every other week while on a cycle. In one study I looked at, a single injection of 6000IU of HCG elevated test levels for 6 days. That´s why a lot of people recommend taking it every 3-5 days. We´d have more stable blood levels, though if we shot it more frequently. Remember, it´s non-estrified and a water-based injectable, after all. In that same study I just spoke of, 1500IU of HCG shot test levels up between 250 and 300%. Taking it all at once however will cause an increase in estrogen levels caused by the aromatization of normal testosterone; the result may be a case of gynecomastia for the user (3).
HCG CYCLES

As regards HCG´s use of Post-Cycle-Therapy (PCT), smaller and more frequent doses after a cycle of AAS would give the best results with the least amount of side effects. A dose of 250iu to 500iu everyday (ed) for 2 to 3 weeks is plenty and should very little from person to person (3). The Physicians Desk Reference recommends 500iu/day, as did the late, great, Dan Duchaine. The smaller doses are sufficient enough to begin reversal of testicular atrophy and used in conjunction with nolvade, will help the already present problem of recovery without raising the levels of estrogen to high and increasing the risk of gynecomastia in the user. Lower doses of 250iu to 500iu also avoid the further risk of down regulating LH receptors in the testes. The old saying more is better definitely does not apply to the use of HCG. You don´t want to finish PCT after using too much HCG only to find out your back at the beginning again. Your best bet is to start at 250iu or 500iu ed for 5 or 6 days, and if you don´t notice anything happening (nuts dropping and getting bigger) up the dose slightly. Small doses like 500iu two days a week isn´t going to cut it like some people think. The only thing small doses of HCG ay be useful (sublingually) for is reducing symptoms of benign prostatic hyperplasia (7). Yeah, that´s right, you can probably reduce some symptoms of an enlarged prostate with the use of small doses of HCG.

As stated above the cycles of HCG should be in the 2 to 3 week range with a least one month off in between, you could stretch your cycle out to four weeks without any major concern if you are using lower doses. One should however take care when using HCG as prolonged use could repress the body´s natural production of gonadotropins permanently, but this is mostly just pure speculation as it does not have yet to be reported nor has there been a case of an overdose. To be on the safe side shorter cycles of HCG seem to be that of the norm. Most users cycle HCG near the end of a steroid cycle, you should start your HCG therapy on the last week of your cycle. For best results you should also run nolva while you run HCG as taking HCG by itself will do little to nothing and gyno even though rare may also flair up. Once the HCG cycle is finished you continue with your usual clomid or nolvadex (preferably the latter) for pct as it is more effective when used in conjunction HCG for pct. With an AAS cycle of 6 to 10 weeks HCG may not be necessary unless extreme doses of AAS were used or there is an existing problem of testicular atrophy or you are running a heavy oral only cycle. AAS cycles of 12 or more weeks should have HCG as a part of post cycle plan.
HCG SIDE EFFECTS

Since HCG is used to stimulate testosterone production, side effects can be the same as those associated with AAS, although gyno may be more common. Possible side effects of HCG use are water and sodium retention after higher doses are used. This is usually a result of higher androgen production. It may cause gyno (again if doses are too high). Any athletes worried about failing urine test because of low levels of epitestosterone may find that using a dose of 500iu of HCG will increase epitestosterone levels. However the problem with HCG is that it is also banned by the IOC and can also be detected in a urine test, the half life of HCG is approximately 4 to 5 days. Another possible downside to HCG is that it to can be suppressive to natural testosterone because it takes the place of LH. Since LH is manufactured in the pituitary because of the response of GnRH (gonadotropin releasing hormone) which in turn is secreted by the hypothalamus. Because the HCG mimics LH and is being supplied exogenously the hypothalamus will be given a signal to still stop producing GnRH, so no natural LH will be produced (5). This is why it should always be used with a compound such as nolvadex. So although HCG is essential after long or heavy cycles, it should not be used without an ancillary such as (specifically) nolv. Also HCG therapy should be discontinued at least 2 weeks prior to stopping the use of nolva, or it may suppress natural testosterone itself (5). This should not be a problem if you are running it towards the end of your cycle of AAS and before pct.

[NorthOf60]

I would throw in some Deca 400mg/week. Why, joints - test will dry out your joints and Deca will lube your joints. If I am going to lift heavy I want to make sure my joint and tendons are safe.

[waderow]

^ 600mg will be fine

[buffdaddy]

Too much gear for a first cycle.

You want to use as little amount of gear as possible to achieve gains. Otherwise you set yourself up for requiring large amounts of gear for gains down the road.

1-4 30mg Dbol ED
1-15 500mg Test enth/cyp

15 weeks is a good length, your gains should be solidified by then. You will lose the water when you come off, but if you keep up with training and diet you will keep most. Assuming you run a proper PCT.


I agree wuth T-rex. perfect 1st cycle in my opinion. You will make great gains off this amount if your diet is in check.

[Staffie111]

Too much gear for a first cycle.

You want to use as little amount of gear as possible to achieve gains. Otherwise you set yourself up for requiring large amounts of gear for gains down the road.

1-4 30mg Dbol ED
1-15 500mg Test enth/cyp

15 weeks is a good length, your gains should be solidified by then. You will lose the water when you come off, but if you keep up with training and diet you will keep most. Assuming you run a proper PCT.

This was my first cycle except I ran the D-bol at 50mg/day.

[gsxr750]

Do your injections twice a week to keep your levels as stable as possible, Sunday morning, Thursday night etc.

I got less sides off 125mg 2x a week compared to a lower dose of 125mg 1x a week if you can believe that..

Keep it simple, if your test is 250mg/ml then do 500mg/week.

[RagingRandy]

Test only is best for your first cycle. 500mg\week of TestE will be sufficient. No need to add anything else if this is all you need. You need to determine your sensitivity and sides to each substance used. That is why many will suggest Test only first cycles.

HCG should be used for about the last half of your cycle @ 500iu twice a week. This will bring the boys back to working order and have them ready for PCT. High doses of HCG can lead to gyno. A week following your last test shot take 20mg\day of Nolva for 4 weeks. You may even be able to get away with less. Some take no PCT at all if HCG is used throughout a cycle. This is an individual thing and I am not suggesting it. If you are 40+ adding in some Trib during your PCT will be a benefit. Some will suggest higher doses but if you keep the boys happy with HCG you will not need 40mg Nolva to kickstart them.

Plan to see the doc after your PCT is complete to check test levels.

[Big D]

Test only is best for your first cycle. 500mg\week of TestE will be sufficient. No need to add anything else if this is all you need. You need to determine your sensitivity and sides to each substance used. That is why many will suggest Test only first cycles.

HCG should be used for about the last half of your cycle @ 500iu twice a week. This will bring the boys back to working order and have them ready for PCT. High doses of HCG can lead to gyno. A week following your last test shot take 20mg\day of Nolva for 4 weeks. You may even be able to get away with less. Some take no PCT at all if HCG is used throughout a cycle. This is an individual thing and I am not suggesting it. If you are 40+ adding in some Trib during your PCT will be a benefit. Some will suggest higher doses but if you keep the boys happy with HCG you will not need 40mg Nolva to kickstart them.

Plan to see the doc after your PCT is complete to check test levels.


x2 great post :)

[smukker]

Well the reason i am taking 40 mg dbol is because they come in 20 mg capsules, not solid pills which i could split, same thing goes for the Test E.
Keeping a very detailed log, with pics and measurements to keep for the old record book and maybe to share with the guys here.

Did my very first shot of Test today, Wow did i ever just freak myself out thinking about it, went in quicker and smoother then i thought, got it in and i was like "is that it??" aspirated, saw one smaller bubble, and a medium sized one, and slowly injected. Smooth!! Had it numbed with an ice pack though. And used a 20g 1.5 pin, all i could get my hands on untill next week. dumb holiday pushed back my order till next week. cant wait to see how things go.

[gsxr750]

20 guage? Quiverrrr.. just heat up the oil a bit and it'l go smooth through a 25. Keep us updated..

So your test is 300mg/ML?

[smukker]

yea its 300mg/ml and i only had to use a 20g because my 23g order got pushed back longer then anticipated. feels sore this morning, ouch.

[fathead]

listen to trex- 500 test (or less) for 12-15 wks. i wouldnt use dbols but thats not the end of the world. just cause your test is 300/cc doesnt mean you cant take 450ish a week.

whoever is suggesting a guy add deca to his test/dbol cycle for a first run in order to "lube his joints" shouldnt be dishing out advice to newbies in my opinion.

[Monka]

I've known people who grew on 250mg weekly, sometimes i think 500mg is bit high for first time, but will grow for sure, but i've seen dude lol get one bottle test and that was a cycle...lol and worked!!! packed on good amount of weight (PROPER eating + and sleeping , no partying, and training ass off.. i guess depend how you react to the drug, or eating, god knows how many people back in day,say there not growing much and the diets in check.. after you REALY look at it it's far from "check" it just THERE version of check. If you start a cycle below, 160 6ft lol you far from check.

[grifter]

I think my first cycle was 1 250ml amp of sust/week. Which I gained off of and didn't require any PCT.