antagonist training

[Ritch]

This is just one of those things that look good on paper but just dosen`t work for me. I understand the advantages of training this way, but it just seems to work against me. I`m just curious who likes training antagonist bodyparts?

Training chest and back is hard, not that I`m against hard work, but my weights aren`t as heavy and that is enough for me not to train this way. I tried it for legs and again, overall couldn`t go as heavy. I`m just doing this during the holidays to keep me out of the gym a little more ( 3 days a week ) but man does a 4 day split ever work better for me ( 2 body parts per session, back trained on it`s own.) What are your thought on antagonist training?

[O-Train]

So you don't train hamstrings on the same day as quads?
My training is: Day 1 Legs, biceps, forearms. Day 2 Back, Chest, Triceps, Shoulders.

Although what I do would be considered unorthodox to a lot of people. I'm not going to discribe it here, it takes way too long.

[Ritch]

For now it`s like this:
Day 1 shoulders, arms, abs
Day 2 hams, quads,
Day 3 back, chest abs

The advantage is getting in and out quicker but that`s not a factor for me. The leg workout took 45 mins and did a little more volume than usual. Usually I`ll go for an hour and 15 mins or so on legs.

Your split seems a little DC style. How often do you hit the gym?

[O-Train]

It's practically DC. Same split style mon, wed, fri 3x/wk. A1/B1 etc... I like it a lot better than some other things I've tried. Probably only in the gym about 4hrs/wk.

I kept the same template as DC but then, like everything else. I modified it somewhat based on my logbook and just what I thought makes more sense. I don't think I'll ever go back to volume style training.

I think the way you train really depends on what your goals are. I work my triceps after shoulders and chest. They are already tired so I don't lift as much but my goals arn't focused around lifting heavy weight.

[Ritch]

Better not tell Dante you changed his routine... I train low volume as well, about 6 sets per bodypart. I figured thid out a long time ago with a book called P.O.F. Taught me to use 3 exercises and do 2 high intensity sets then move on... Only back gets 12 sets total 6 for each width and thickness. Recently just tried doing higher volume and it dosen`t take long that is just burns me out. I try to keep an open mind and try new things here and there but it never works as good as what I`ve come up with in my 20 years of experienting.

In the end I think this antagonist training is something trainers like to use because to an onlooker, it looks like the client is training hard and it suits the trainer because the client is out of the gym in the hour he paid for.

[gordi]

I've always felt that most training styles work... for a while. Some work better than others, and some people are more suited to one style than another... but I think the main thing is to stick to one thing as long as it's working, but be willing to switch up when the gains stop coming.

[O-Train]

Better not tell Dante you changed his routine... I train low volume as well, about 6 sets per bodypart. I figured thid out a long time ago with a book called P.O.F. Taught me to use 3 exercises and do 2 high intensity sets then move on... Only back gets 12 sets total 6 for each width and thickness. Recently just tried doing higher volume and it dosen`t take long that is just burns me out. I try to keep an open mind and try new things here and there but it never works as good as what I`ve come up with in my 20 years of experienting.

In the end I think this antagonist training is something trainers like to use because to an onlooker, it looks like the client is training hard and it suits the trainer because the client is out of the gym in the hour he paid for.

Lol, I actually started a thread on IntenseMuscle about it. Caused quite the shit storm. People on that forum treat DC like a religion, very closed minded. I actually want to further refine things and maybe write a book one day. I just need to figure out a good system of high intensity training for beginners.

[Bowlcut]

Better not tell Dante you changed his routine... I train low volume as well, about 6 sets per bodypart. I figured thid out a long time ago with a book called P.O.F. Taught me to use 3 exercises and do 2 high intensity sets then move on... Only back gets 12 sets total 6 for each width and thickness. Recently just tried doing higher volume and it dosen`t take long that is just burns me out. I try to keep an open mind and try new things here and there but it never works as good as what I`ve come up with in my 20 years of experienting.

In the end I think this antagonist training is something trainers like to use because to an onlooker, it looks like the client is training hard and it suits the trainer because the client is out of the gym in the hour he paid for.

The scientific basis rests on the belief that the central nervous system takes longer to recover than muscles not because it looks good. Things like "stability balls" or "dumbbell hang cleans" are fancy shit to impress the stupid.

Try working chest and bis and see how it goes.
If you are tired maybe your GPP needs to be raised?

[Ritch]

The scientific basis rests on the belief that the central nervous system takes longer to recover than muscles not because it looks good. Things like "stability balls" or "dumbbell hang cleans" are fancy shit to impress the stupid.

Try working chest and bis and see how it goes.
If you are tired maybe your GPP needs to be raised?

I`ve actually gone back to my old split, this was just for the holidays. I understand what you say about raising my GPP, but it is a big change going from just doing straight sets say of 10 reps to doing about 20 reps in a row. I just feel this type of training is rushing one through workouts, something I don`t need or like to do. I`d much rather spend a day doing only back as I do twice as many exercises for back than chest.

[Bowlcut]

I`ve actually gone back to my old split, this was just for the holidays. I understand what you say about raising my GPP, but it is a big change going from just doing straight sets say of 10 reps to doing about 20 reps in a row. I just feel this type of training is rushing one through workouts, something I don`t need or like to do. I`d much rather spend a day doing only back as I do twice as many exercises for back than chest.

If you want to raise GPP you can do it by doing short "extra" or restoration workouts.
If you have access to a sled then drag it a few times a week because it will restore he legs but also raise your fitness.

[Ritch]

If you want to raise GPP you can do it by doing short "extra" or restoration workouts.
If you have access to a sled then drag it a few times a week because it will restore he legs but also raise your fitness.

I haven`t tried sleg draggin and think it would be a fun thing to do, with tire flipping... I just don`t understand how this is supposed to increase recovery. To me it sounds like telling someone who is tired to get less sleep and he will feel more rested. And to be completely honest I don`t care about fitness, lol.

[Bowlcut]

I haven`t tried sleg draggin and think it would be a fun thing to do, with tire flipping... I just don`t understand how this is supposed to increase recovery. To me it sounds like telling someone who is tired to get less sleep and he will feel more rested. And to be completely honest I don`t care about fitness, lol.

If you want an accurate description for restoration work just read Louie Simmons March and April 2003 articles.

http://www.westside-barbell.com/articles.htm

[Ritch]

Well it`s hard to argue with the likes of Louie Simmons but I really think there is only so much one can do in a week. And although I have nothing against the use of gear, I think Louie advocates continuous use of gear making things like sled pulling possible without overtraining or people with systems that just recover very efficiently. The advice he gives is for absolute die hard powerlifters doing certain lifts 4 times a week leaving out other stuff I might do like direct bicep or calve work. I truely consider myself didicated but not on the level of these guys.

I am interested in reading the other articles posted posted in that link, and reminding me to read up more on Louie Simmons. I`m sure anyone has lots to learn by reading from this guy.