Dave Palumbo Diet

[InPursuitOfPerfection]

If you want to cut naturally and are looking for a fat burner with little to no stimulant effects, try SPECIES' Lipolyze and Somalyze products. Dave Palumbo uses these for pre contest with his natty competitors

thanks ubcpower, im gonna look into that.

cheers

[Ritch]

As much as I hear people (and smart one`s) say clen is not a stimulant, I disagree. Or can we just use another term? How about an energizer? The stuff gives me a boost in mental performance, therefore it`s a stimulant? No? Anyway, I don`t want to debate this to shits, but just don`t understand how it`s not a stimulant if it gives you energy.

Is it not categorized as a stimulant because it dosen`t raise blood pressure?

[InPursuitOfPerfection]

i beleive it is officially classified as a beta2 agonist and decongestant bronchio-dialator (i cant spell).... BUT it gets my heart pumpin like friggin crazy, and to me, that classifies as "stimulating" the body.

[kloan]

yeah ive wondered that myself... it has stimulating properties, can keep a person up at night if taken later in the day, some people feel pretty wired out from it... same as caffeine, ephedrine, etc.

[waderow]

clen makes me a jittery shaking mofo. as if i was on stimulants

[InPursuitOfPerfection]

i just have one more question.

Im an amateur boxer and i train for it 3x a week for an hour, it is pretty high intensity training. I then weight train 3x a week on top of that. Once i start the diet i will also be slowly adding in some low intensity long duration cardio in the am before breakfast.

Is the boxing going to cause me to lose a bunch of muscle on this diet? (i know dave says low intensity only)
Is this diet a good choice for me personally?

My goals right now are simply to drop bf and maintain lbm, not concerned with adding lbm at all at the moment.

[St]

i just have one more question.

Im an amateur boxer and i train for it 3x a week for an hour, it is pretty high intensity training. I then weight train 3x a week on top of that. Once i start the diet i will also be slowly adding in some low intensity long duration cardio in the am before breakfast.

Is the boxing going to cause me to lose a bunch of muscle on this diet? (i know dave says low intensity only)
Is this diet a good choice for me personally?

My goals right now are simply to drop bf and maintain lbm, not concerned with adding lbm at all at the moment.

You will be fine,just keep your protein high.

[ironwill]

i just have one more question.

Im an amateur boxer and i train for it 3x a week for an hour, it is pretty high intensity training. I then weight train 3x a week on top of that. Once i start the diet i will also be slowly adding in some low intensity long duration cardio in the am before breakfast.

Is the boxing going to cause me to lose a bunch of muscle on this diet? (i know dave says low intensity only)
Is this diet a good choice for me personally?

My goals right now are simply to drop bf and maintain lbm, not concerned with adding lbm at all at the moment.

I believe you will be losing some muscle.....The intensity for Boxing is pretty high trng...Personally i wouldnt be doing a keto diet if you are looking into endurance sports...It doesnt make sense...You need carbs for endurance, and i personally do not believe one can store enough glycogen for YOUR particular needs by trying to do it through glucogenesis.....Praetorian has some good knowledge, maybe ask him in his thread,....IMO, keto diet and trng for boxing, if you are trng the way i used to wont work out the best....
You need glycogen stores in muscle to be topped up, and liver glycogen stores high as well, and additional carbs takien in via Gatorade etc while trng that intensely, to keep going full tilt...

[Ritch]

^^^ Nods head...

[InPursuitOfPerfection]

yea, thats what i figured. Thanks for the quick responses BTW. I think i may give it a

shot anyways for a month or so and see how i fair. If strength is staying, ill keep

going, if the weights start to drop ill back off, and start to reintroduce some carbs.

Now, i was planning on staying natural for a while, but i think it may be benificial for

me to run a mild cycle while doing this diet. I personally dont advocate an oral only

cycle very often lol, but i think it may be suited well to my goals at the moment. I

have a bunch o var left over from a previous cycle, perhaps it would be alright to run 60

mg ED for the duration im on this diet, to help stave off any muscle wasting. What are your thoughts?

[St]

yea, thats what i figured. Thanks for the quick responses BTW. I think i may give it a

shot anyways for a month or so and see how i fair. If strength is staying, ill keep

going, if the weights start to drop ill back off, and start to reintroduce some carbs.

Now, i was planning on staying natural for a while, but i think it may be benificial for

me to run a mild cycle while doing this diet. I personally dont advocate an oral only

cycle very often lol, but i think it may be suited well to my goals at the moment. I

have a bunch o var left over from a previous cycle, perhaps it would be alright to run 60

mg ED for the duration im on this diet, to help stave off any muscle wasting. What are your thoughts?

If your on the Keto diet,then and lack energy,just up your Fat it worked for me.

[ironwill]

yea, thats what i figured. Thanks for the quick responses BTW. I think i may give it a

shot anyways for a month or so and see how i fair. If strength is staying, ill keep

going, if the weights start to drop ill back off, and start to reintroduce some carbs.

Now, i was planning on staying natural for a while, but i think it may be benificial for

me to run a mild cycle while doing this diet. I personally dont advocate an oral only

cycle very often lol, but i think it may be suited well to my goals at the moment. I

have a bunch o var left over from a previous cycle, perhaps it would be alright to run 60

mg ED for the duration im on this diet, to help stave off any muscle wasting. What are your thoughts?

Possibly, im not a fan of var alone personally........And if not running any super supplements, and no carbs, you will lose muscle for sure, going hi intensity as one needs to train in your sport....
Fat wont do much for your energy levels as far as the explosive and cardio endurance you require, thats all carb related energy IMO.....But will give you energy to do day to day tasks and short stimulating workouts....
let us know how it goes for you, as sometimes we stumble on to things that work, even when there are plenty of naysayers.....:D

[Praetorian]

i just have one more question.

Im an amateur boxer and i train for it 3x a week for an hour, it is pretty high intensity training. I then weight train 3x a week on top of that. Once i start the diet i will also be slowly adding in some low intensity long duration cardio in the am before breakfast.

Is the boxing going to cause me to lose a bunch of muscle on this diet? (i know dave says low intensity only)
Is this diet a good choice for me personally?

My goals right now are simply to drop bf and maintain lbm, not concerned with adding lbm at all at the moment.

HIT boxing training can definitely cause some muscle loss if your heart rate is going above 130bpm. Once you go above this the body cannot use ketones for fuel as they are too slow...oxygen is now needed and this changes the equation in favour of glucose as a fuel...in the abscence glycogen amino acids will be converted ...ie muscle loss.
If you are training HIT boxing etc then I would suggest some carb intake prior to that...thus you would not be in ketosis.
P

[InPursuitOfPerfection]

thanks for all the responses guys...im going to give a go and see what happens. Day 1 is

on january 1st, maybe ill start a log and just update weekly. Since i have the var i

think i am going to use it, and i am going to follow the diet at the beggining of the

article, with the addition of NO shotgun prior to any workouts. Hopefully i can stave off

any muscle wasting, but only time will tell. I am also going to incorporate the species

supplements lipolyze and somalyze as soon as i get the cash together for them. Once

again, thaks for all the help, now its time for me to put this into action.

IPOP

[Praetorian]

thanks for all the responses guys...im going to give a go and see what happens. Day 1 is

on january 1st, maybe ill start a log and just update weekly. Since i have the var i

think i am going to use it, and i am going to follow the diet at the beggining of the

article, with the addition of NO shotgun prior to any workouts. Hopefully i can stave off

any muscle wasting, but only time will tell. I am also going to incorporate the species

supplements lipolyze and somalyze as soon as i get the cash together for them. Once

again, thaks for all the help, now its time for me to put this into action.

IPOP

Just an FYI...the var will not help spare muscle if you continue to do high intensity boxing type training while on a keto diet...the body still requires fuel and it will get it from amino acids...ie muscle tissue.
P

[InPursuitOfPerfection]

Just an FYI...the var will not help spare muscle if you continue to do high intensity boxing type training while on a keto diet...the body still requires fuel and it will get it from amino acids...ie muscle tissue.
P

ic, well should i scrap the diet all together?

or could i possibly add a small amout of carbs to my no shotgun, prior to boxing

i do understand that it will alter the diet, but can i add 10 grams of carbs to my pre-boxing no shotgun? Would this completely negate the diet? Would it permanently keep me out of ketosis? Any info would be appreciated. I just wanna get the ball rolling
:)

Boxing is not something i want to give up, so i need to find a way to make it work lol... any help would be appreciated.

For now im going to stick with the plan thats laid out in the OP... but id like to know what i could do to weak it a bit if needed

[InPursuitOfPerfection]

Just though id poist up the diet im planning to use, a few small changes, but all in all pretty much the same as OP.

MEAL 1:
4 whole omegga 3 eggs
4 egg whites

MEAL 2:
1.5scoops protein
1 tblsp natural Peanut butter

MEAL 3:
8oz chicken breast
1/3 cup raw almonds

MEAL 4:
1.5 scoops protein
1 tblsp natural peanut butter

Meal 5:
8oz Salmon/Beef
Green salad
1 tblsp Olive Oil
1 tblp Balsamic vinegar

Meal 6:
1.5 scoops portein
1 tblsp natural peanut butter

Cals=2241
Pro=251g
Fat=95g
Carbs=33g


Starting tommorow

[warlock]

Just though id poist up the diet im planning to use, a few small changes, but all in all pretty much the same as OP.

MEAL 1:
4 whole omegga 3 eggs
4 egg whites

MEAL 2:
1.5scoops protein
1 tblsp natural Peanut butter

MEAL 3:
8oz chicken breast
1/3 cup raw almonds

MEAL 4:
1.5 scoops protein
1 tblsp natural peanut butter

Meal 5:
8oz Salmon/Beef
Green salad
1 tblsp Olive Oil
1 tblp Balsamic vinegar

Meal 6:
1.5 scoops portein
1 tblsp natural peanut butter

Cals=2241
Pro=251g
Fat=95g
Carbs=33g


Starting tommorow

A keto diet will make you loose muscle mass.

Have carbs before and after your training sessions and bcaas during and that will help you to spare muscle.

[natenator]

A keto diet will make you loose muscle mass.

Have carbs before and after your training sessions and bcaas during and that will help you to spare muscle.
Don't talk about what you don't know or have knowledge on.

[warlock]

Don't talk about what you don't know or have knowledge on.

Bla bla bla bla


Don't be boring and rude:fart

[natenator]

Bla bla bla bla


Don't be boring and rude:fart
No problem, I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter.

[warlock]

No problem, I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter.

Lier:beat

[kloan]

A keto diet will make you loose muscle mass.

Have carbs before and after your training sessions and bcaas during and that will help you to spare muscle.
you're saying this because of the other training he does right? cuz on it's own with low intensity cardio and weight training keto wont make you lose muscle.... but i think we're all in agreement with that. guess some people glaze over key points and go straight for the neck.

[warlock]

you're saying this because of the other training he does right? cuz on it's own with low intensity cardio and weight training keto wont make you lose muscle.... but i think we're all in agreement with that. guess some people glaze over key points and go straight for the neck.

Off course any person with a little common sense an dinteligence knows that boxing-carbs=muscle waste:puff

[InPursuitOfPerfection]

well i guess what i need to know, is how much carbs should i be intaking on days i box? and when should i take them in?

will i still drop bf on the diet if i rework it that way?

[InPursuitOfPerfection]

anyways, ill be back on the 15th and tell you guys how its going....

im going forwaed with the diet...

ill keep you posted

[btufts]

I think it would be too complicated trying to time everything perfectly to get into ketosis just to get out of it again. With such high intensity cardio you do in boxing and you want to lose bf i would do low carb

[Ritch]

And here`s the good news, and one I can almost guarantee will work... The Palumbo diet is not the only diet that works. As a matter of fact, if you`re not planning on doing a competition, it`s totally unecessary. As that`s what it`s designed to do. And if you`re not competiting, why the hell would you want to put yourself through such misery. Also if you`re natural, forget it bro! That statement has been backed up here as well.

Say you restricted all carbs from your last 3 meals in your day and they were just protein and fats, the first 3 protein and carbs, this will work wonders. If you can train in the morning, after breakfast it would be best. As you know post workout is an ideal time to jack up insulin with fast acting carbs and protein. It`s also very safe to say the next meal has a need for carbs and they won`t be stored as fat. Follow that up with the protein fat meals, you`ll be fine. Most easy way to get lean without suffering the madness of a keto diet.

If you train at night, simply have protein and fats all day, until your pre workout meal which will be protein carbs, then the post workout as I said. If there`s time for another meal it can be either protein and carbs or protein and fat, depending how easily you get lean, you`ll have to experiement to see which works best for you.

[btufts]

And here`s the good news, and one I can almost guarantee will work... The Palumbo diet is not the only diet that works. As a matter of fact, if you`re not planning on doing a competition, it`s totally unecessary. As that`s what it`s designed to do. And if you`re not competiting, why the hell would you want to put yourself through such misery. Also if you`re natural, forget it bro! That statement has been backed up here as well.

Say you restricted all carbs from your last 3 meals in your day and they were just protein and fats, the first 3 protein and carbs, this will work wonders. If you can train in the morning, after breakfast it would be best. As you know post workout is an ideal time to jack up insulin with fast acting carbs and protein. It`s also very safe to say the next meal has a need for carbs and they won`t be stored as fat. Follow that up with the protein fat meals, you`ll be fine. Most easy way to get lean without suffering the madness of a keto diet.

If you train at night, simply have protein and fats all day, until your pre workout meal which will be protein carbs, then the post workout as I said. If there`s time for another meal it can be either protein and carbs or protein and fat, depending how easily you get lean, you`ll have to experiement to see which works best for you.

I agree with you that you should centralize your carbs around workout time and protein and fats meals the rest of the time, I experimented with this for a while in the past and it was decent for fat loss, but not as good as the keto so far, and i've been doing it naturally. The protein and fat meals will increase testosterone for sure, and the carb meals are strictly for filling glycogen levels around your workout. I've read that carbs are only needed for about 6 hours after training. This style diet however that i used was for gaining mass. Alternating protein/fat meals with protein/carb meals were directed more so for cutting.


http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/masseating_1.htm


This site i found very helpful and he has some good theories. Hope it helps

[Ritch]

that`s where I read the info I live by as well!

[btufts]

lol john berardi has some great tips and theories, i read that in the summer time last year. i still eat and train the way i've read by him

[natenator]

And here`s the good news, and one I can almost guarantee will work... The Palumbo diet is not the only diet that works. As a matter of fact, if you`re not planning on doing a competition, it`s totally unecessary. As that`s what it`s designed to do. And if you`re not competiting, why the hell would you want to put yourself through such misery. Also if you`re natural, forget it bro! That statement has been backed up here as well.

Say you restricted all carbs from your last 3 meals in your day and they were just protein and fats, the first 3 protein and carbs, this will work wonders. If you can train in the morning, after breakfast it would be best. As you know post workout is an ideal time to jack up insulin with fast acting carbs and protein. It`s also very safe to say the next meal has a need for carbs and they won`t be stored as fat. Follow that up with the protein fat meals, you`ll be fine. Most easy way to get lean without suffering the madness of a keto diet.

If you train at night, simply have protein and fats all day, until your pre workout meal which will be protein carbs, then the post workout as I said. If there`s time for another meal it can be either protein and carbs or protein and fat, depending how easily you get lean, you`ll have to experiement to see which works best for you.
Misery of keto? You have no clue what you are talking about. Ask anyone whose run a proper keto style diet and they will tell you it was not misery.

When it gets difficult is in the last 4-6 weeks but every diet beco
es difficult in the last 4-6 weeks.

[btufts]

There really isn't any misery when on the keto diet, the first week maybe, just the first depletion of carbs, after that you feel great, my energy levels are just as they were the only difference is that i'm burning fat. I don't even crave my carb up meal now.

[kloan]

Misery of keto? You have no clue what you are talking about. Ask anyone whose run a proper keto style diet and they will tell you it was not misery.

When it gets difficult is in the last 4-6 weeks but every diet beco
es difficult in the last 4-6 weeks.

Hahah, here we go again. Like the diet is so difficult to follow?

Hey Ritch, guess you and I must have imagined things... or maybe our IQ level is just too low to eat chicken and almonds.

Anyway.. as much as I hate it, I'm gonna be doin the keto yet again. This time with the help of Test, Var, T3 and Clen.

[natenator]

Hahah, here we go again. Like the diet is so difficult to follow?

Hey Ritch, guess you and I must have imagined things... or maybe our IQ level is just too low to eat chicken and almonds.

Anyway.. as much as I hate it, I'm gonna be doin the keto yet again. This time with the help of Test, Var, T3 and Clen.
Ritch, no but you I have zero doubts are flying low in the IQ department.

If you want to get snide with comments I will as well and will do it in a manner so as not to confuse you as I know you often misconstrue a persons 'tone' on the Internet.

For the record no one ever said the diet was difficult to follow but perhaps the diet you were following was not one that was meant for your bodyweigjt, muscle mass, etc. The difference between a cookie cutting template you find online and one that's developed for you.

[natenator]

Hahah, here we go again. Like the diet is so difficult to follow?

Hey Ritch, guess you and I must have imagined things... or maybe our IQ level is just too low to eat chicken and almonds.

Anyway.. as much as I hate it, I'm gonna be doin the keto yet again. This time with the help of Test, Var, T3 and Clen.
Ritch, no but you I have zero doubts are flying low in the IQ department.

If you want to get snide with comments I will as well and will do it in a manner so as not to confuse you as I know you often misconstrue a persons 'tone' on the Internet.

For the record no one ever said the diet was difficult to follow but perhaps the diet you were following was not one that was meant for your bodyweigjt, muscle mass, etc. The difference between a cookie cutting template you find online and one that's developed for you.

[kloan]

Ritch, no but you I have zero doubts are flying low in the IQ department.

If you want to get snide with comments I will as well and will do it in a manner so as not to confuse you as I know you often misconstrue a persons 'tone' on the Internet.

For the record no one ever said the diet was difficult to follow but perhaps the diet you were following was not one that was meant for your bodyweigjt, muscle mass, etc. The difference between a cookie cutting template you find online and one that's developed for you.
You could be right. If I had professional guidance with the diet and had it tailored more for me, maybe I would might have had better results from it. It does seem though that a lot of people follow the 'cookie cutter' diet and get good results from it.

I think Ritch actually achieved results with his run on the keto, but he and I both experienced similar effects as far as feeling like crap on the diet.

How or what did either of us do wrong that we would feel like crap instead of feel great on the diet, as you seem to imply is only achieved by people who "know what they're talking about"?

Btw, my snide tone is coming from the fact that you have now told two people in this thread they don't know what they're talking about. Who's the one being an ass?

[natenator]

You could be right. If I had professional guidance with the diet and had it tailored more for me, maybe I would might have had better results from it. It does seem though that a lot of people follow the 'cookie cutter' diet and get good results from it.

I think Ritch actually achieved results with his run on the keto, but he and I both experienced similar effects as far as feeling like crap on the diet.

How or what did either of us do wrong that we would feel like crap instead of feel great on the diet, as you seem to imply is only achieved by people who "know what they're talking about"?

Btw, my snide tone is coming from the fact that you have now told two people in this thread they don't know what they're talking about. Who's the one being an ass?
I'm only an ass to ignorant comments. Warlock suggesting a keto diet leads to muscle loss more inherently than other types of diets was ignorant as he clearly has not read much about keto diets or the mechanisms of how they work in the body.

And while I agree there will be some who may feel miserable on a keto diet the truth as far as I've researched is those are fee and far between and this also included my own personal experience.

I can't say what you may have done or not done while on the diet. Maybe your fats were too low? Maybe you were training too long? Maybe you weren't getting enough rest? Too many variables for me to say but the only real misery I experienced on my diet was frequent inability to take a shit lol

[kloan]

I'm only an ass to ignorant comments. Warlock suggesting a keto diet leads to muscle loss more inherently than other types of diets was ignorant as he clearly has not read much about keto diets or the mechanisms of how they work in the body.

And while I agree there will be some who may feel miserable on a keto diet the truth as far as I've researched is those are fee and far between and this also included my own personal experience.

I can't say what you may have done or not done while on the diet. Maybe your fats were too low? Maybe you were training too long? Maybe you weren't getting enough rest? Too many variables for me to say but the only real misery I experienced on my diet was frequent inability to take a shit lol

Dude, warlock only said that because InPursuitofPerfection is boxing and asked if the keto diet would cause muscle loss because of the high intensity training and lack of glycogen.

Far as feeling like crap on the diet, you're right, too many variables to know for sure. Which is why I'm considering trying it again to see if I can do it without feeling like crap. Perhaps with the added help from the other stuff, things might feel a bit better. That is if I can get my sleep schedule fixed.

[btufts]

I'm only an ass to ignorant comments. Warlock suggesting a keto diet leads to muscle loss more inherently than other types of diets was ignorant as he clearly has not read much about keto diets or the mechanisms of how they work in the body.

And while I agree there will be some who may feel miserable on a keto diet the truth as far as I've researched is those are fee and far between and this also included my own personal experience.

I can't say what you may have done or not done while on the diet. Maybe your fats were too low? Maybe you were training too long? Maybe you weren't getting enough rest? Too many variables for me to say but the only real misery I experienced on my diet was frequent inability to take a shit lol



I couldn't poop for 3 days when i started... was not a happy camper lol. That has gone away since, probably too much peanut butter intake...



As far as whats been working for me kloan i get about 250g protein, 100g fats, 50g trace carbs. Try that kind of ratio, its been working for me so far.


And not too much peanut butter.... I think that shit clogs you up. Just sayin lol

[kloan]

I was somewhere around 200g protein, 120g fat, 30-40g carbs.

I replaced peanut butter with almond butter.

What about fiber supplements? Any of you guys use fiber? That's the only thing that was an unknown for me, because fiber is carbs, and I was taking a fiber supplement every day. I wasn't sure if that could somehow interfere with ketosis.

The way I can describe how I felt is that it felt like I was stuck in the preliminary stage of entering ketosis. After a few days I felt great, I was in ketosis.. but after a couple weeks it felt like I wasn't quite in keto anymore and couldn't seem to get into it.

Perhaps the carb/cheat meal once a week threw things off as well. If I do the diet again, I'm not going to bother with the cheat meal, or if I do I'll have to get some advice how to do it better so that I only get the carbs I need without going overboard.

[btufts]

So far i havn't had the need for a fiber supplement. As far as having a feeling of being in ketosis i don't think its a thing that you can feel. And for training basically just hit everything as hard as you can within 30-60min so you don't tap into glycogen storage. You want your refeed meal once a week to spike your insulin levels, it'll actually help speed up your metabolism and fills glycogen levels in your muscles. DONT SKIP IT. Just make it your last meal of the day and make it a HUGE protein + carbs with minimal fat. Mostly carbs that is. 400g i believe is what Praetorian recommended.

[kloan]

This is my personal experience with ketosis.

Ketosis for me feels like a slight head buzz energetic but slightly tweaked feeling. I can tell when I'm in ketosis, it has a different feel than when eating carbs. But I am also very sensitive to carbs, it affects my emotions and energy level significantly.. usually negatively.

I am hypoglycemic, so when I eat I normally get tired... when my blood sugar drops I get a frantic energy. With keto when I need to eat I get tired, and after I eat I get energy. The complete opposite to when I eat carbs.

Also when I'm in keto, I seem to have a get up and go energy, can't sit still. The lethargy is gone. Not quite full of zesty spunk, but feels like I want to keep moving, keep busy. My head also feels clearer, can think quicker.

[btufts]

well if you say you lost that feeling maybe your body has become used to the feeling and the "stimulating" effect has worn off, but you are probably still in ketosis if your diet stays the same. If you begin losing energy add a bit more fat to each meal

[kloan]

yeah it's worth another shot

[Ritch]

Surely Nate you believe there is more than one method to get built. Then why is it you seem to think keto is the only way to get cut? It dosen`t work for everybody. Deal with it, lol... Not all pro`s use it. Ronnie never used it, Rhul didn`t either. Plenty of ripped freaks who never used it as it made them look like shit. And don`t give me that "then they didn`t pay somebody thousands of dollars to tailor the diet for them crap." It`s a total joke today how everybody seems to need their own coach to get ripped. It`s beyond overrated...

But let me clarify again. I think the person who wants to compete is making a good choice doing keto. But let`s not forget the avarage forum member is not looking to get that cut ( cheeks sucked in look, ripped glutes...) therefore it is totally possible and way less suffering to do it the way I said.

[devo09]

Also if you`re natural, forget it bro! That statement has been backed up here as well.

this!

. Drugs change things

[jamex]

What exactly is the problem doing keto natural? I've been on it for almost 4 weeks now and have been seeing results past the initial 1 week dry up. I lost some size\strength but figured that was normal and would return quickly once the diet is discontinued.

What I'd like to know is does anyone else get the shitty headaches? They've mostly subsided but I still get that sensation like a headband is pulled too tightly. Not really painful but noticeable nonetheless.

[Ritch]

What exactly is the problem doing keto natural?

Recovery is the main problem, which kinda makes me question the whole "this diet is awesome as it increases test levels with all the healthy fats" Well if my test levels are so high, why is my recovery so bad? Anyway, in the end like anything else, not every plan out there can work for everybody.

[natenator]

Surely Nate you believe there is more than one method to get built. Then why is it you seem to think keto is the only way to get cut? It dosen`t work for everybody. Deal with it, lol... Not all pro`s use it. Ronnie never used it, Rhul didn`t either. Plenty of ripped freaks who never used it as it made them look like shit. And don`t give me that "then they didn`t pay somebody thousands of dollars to tailor the diet for them crap." It`s a total joke today how everybody seems to need their own coach to get ripped. It`s beyond overrated...

But let me clarify again. I think the person who wants to compete is making a good choice doing keto. But let`s not forget the avarage forum member is not looking to get that cut ( cheeks sucked in look, ripped glutes...) therefore it is totally possible and way less suffering to do it the way I said.
No where have I ever said keto was the only way to get cut but I will agree with what Praetorian has said before and that, logically (that is me speaking) keto is the most efficient means of dieting. If you can do with keto what you can with low carbs but only faster than why go a low carb approach?

As there are many ways to build it there are many ways to lose it and I've never said otherwise. I took exception to your statement that a keto diet was misery when that's been the exact opposite to those many who have run keto.

I've done all sorts of diet strategies out there to just lean out or get into contest shape and I felt way better on keto than I have any other type of diet. I held onto muscle and increased strength while keeping energy levels up and doing 2-2.5 hrs of cardio/day and was rarely hungry. The cardio was due to starting so out of shape to begin with :(

Digestion issues were really my only problem with the diet but I feel it had more to do with me than the diet.

[Praetorian]

What exactly is the problem doing keto natural? I've been on it for almost 4 weeks now and have been seeing results past the initial 1 week dry up. I lost some size\strength but figured that was normal and would return quickly once the diet is discontinued.

What I'd like to know is does anyone else get the shitty headaches? They've mostly subsided but I still get that sensation like a headband is pulled too tightly. Not really painful but noticeable nonetheless.

A keto diet works great on someone who is natural. The reason for this is inherent to ketosis. Once in ketosis the body does not want to use glucose for fuel so there is no tendency to convert amino acids into glucose for fuel as in the standard low carb low fat diet. AAS are not necessary to use on the keto diet at all...and you will spare muscle much more effectively then a low carb diet. Not to mention you will feel better because of the insulin control and lack of hunger. For the natural BB or the person just lookign to lose some weight the keto diet is much more effective as it doesnt have the limitations of a low carb diet..ie drop in hormones, mood swings, extreme hunger, lethargy, lack of energy to train or do cardio etc
P

[Praetorian]

Recovery is the main problem, which kinda makes me question the whole "this diet is awesome as it increases test levels with all the healthy fats" Well if my test levels are so high, why is my recovery so bad? Anyway, in the end like anything else, not every plan out there can work for everybody.

Recovery is not going to happen effectively without calories and carbs...on any type of diet...whether it be low carb or keto...even with aas recovery is limited...hence the reason you dont build muscle effectively while dieting.
P

[Ritch]

No where have I ever said keto was the only way to get cut but I will agree with what Praetorian has said before and that, logically (that is me speaking) keto is the most efficient means of dieting. If you can do with keto what you can with low carbs but only faster than why go a low carb approach?

As there are many ways to build it there are many ways to lose it and I've never said otherwise. I took exception to your statement that a keto diet was misery when that's been the exact opposite to those many who have run keto.

I've done all sorts of diet strategies out there to just lean out or get into contest shape and I felt way better on keto than I have any other type of diet. I held onto muscle and increased strength while keeping energy levels up and doing 2-2.5 hrs of cardio/day and was rarely hungry. The cardio was due to starting so out of shape to begin with :(

Digestion issues were really my only problem with the diet but I feel it had more to do with me than the diet.

I think the key phrase here is that keto will get you leaner faster than a low carb diet. But still low carb works very fast for me and is why I preach it so much. And as said earlier, gets me plenty lean, keto is not even close to being necessary, so no way would I go without my oatmeal, frozen berrie and protein powder breakfast in any diet phase, lol...

As far as feeling great on it, I have yet to talk to one person who says they feel good on it. Hunger is kept under control being the main benefit of the keto and that`s it. Guys feeling like shit and being totally unfunctional is what I always hear and see. It`s not uncommon to ask them a a question, just to have them look at you with a blank stare then say "what?". And guys who have higher ups following them, and on big amounts of gear.

But it`s my belief that if you wanna get that lean (competition), you will suffer and I just don`t buy into the " I keep my strength, size and mood all through my diet. I`m not calling you a liar Nate for saying that the diet does what yo say, I`m guessing you`re probably a guy who`s very driven to get through such a diet. If you had negative thoughts going through your mind, it`s doubtfull you could get through it.

[natenator]

I think the key phrase here is that keto will get you leaner faster than a low carb diet. But still low carb works very fast for me and is why I preach it so much. And as said earlier, gets me plenty lean, keto is not even close to being necessary, so no way would I go without my oatmeal, frozen berrie and protein powder breakfast in any diet phase, lol...

As far as feeling great on it, I have yet to talk to one person who says they feel good on it. Hunger is kept under control being the main benefit of the keto and that`s it. Guys feeling like shit and being totally unfunctional is what I always hear and see. It`s not uncommon to ask them a a question, just to have them look at you with a blank stare then say "what?". And guys who have higher ups following them, and on big amounts of gear.

But it`s my belief that if you wanna get that lean (competition), you will suffer and I just don`t buy into the " I keep my strength, size and mood all through my diet. I`m not calling you a liar Nate for saying that the diet does what yo say, I`m guessing you`re probably a guy who`s very driven to get through such a diet. If you had negative thoughts going through your mind, it`s doubtfull you could get through it.
I don';t have time to reply right now but I can assure you EVERYONE has negative thoughts during the contest prep period. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. We all have moments of self doubt which is why it's the journey and not the destination that matters the most.

[Ritch]

For the natural BB or the person just lookign to lose some weight the keto diet is much more effective as it doesnt have the limitations of a low carb diet..ie drop in hormones, mood swings, extreme hunger, lethargy, lack of energy to train or do cardio etc
P

All those sides you mention hardly affect me low carb. Just to clarify, I rarely go under 240 grams of carbs a day. Higher on training days. What`s your definition of low carb?

Limitations? What? The keto diet is the most limited diet I know of, lol! I guess we see things differently... I have yet to be able to convince one person to follow such a diet when I show it to them. Meat,fats and vege`s gets old fast! Effective no doubt, but in general only possible for someone who wants to compete. Average person will have nothing to do with this.

[Ritch]

Not to mention you will feel better because of the insulin control and lack of hunger.

If the person doing low carb goes with low glycemic carbs and has plenty of fiber in the meal, insulin control is kept in check, therefore helping with the hunger issue.

[Praetorian]

All those sides you mention hardly affect me low carb. Just to clarify, I rarely go under 240 grams of carbs a day. Higher on training days. What`s your definition of low carb?

Limitations? What? The keto diet is the most limited diet I know of, lol! I guess we see things differently... I have yet to be able to convince one person to follow such a diet when I show it to them. Meat,fats and vege`s gets old fast! Effective no doubt, but in general only possible for someone who wants to compete. Average person will have nothing to do with this.

Limitations= drop in testosterone, fluctuations of insulin, extreme hunger, mood swings, gluconoegenesis etc
I have many clients who follow the keto diet but have no wish to ever compete nor be a BB. Many are post natal women and some just looking to drop weight to get into shape for any number of reasons. The diet is as varied as you make it...it is the same as the low carb diet without starchy carbs and limited veggies...protein sources are the same...it doesnt have to be boring..only if you make it so. Showing them the diet is much different then explaining how it works and offering proof as in client before and after photos. A recent client recently dropped 40lbs and was able to overcome PCOS to become pregnant when Dr's said it wasnt possible...thanks to the keto diet.
P

[Praetorian]

If the person doing low carb goes with low glycemic carbs and has plenty of fiber in the meal, insulin control is kept in check, therefore helping with the hunger issue.

Even with low glycemic carbs insulin is not as stable as when in ketosis. Fat is also lower which increases hunger because of less satiety...insoluble fibre will decrease transit time as well.
P

[Ritch]

Limitations= drop in testosterone, fluctuations of insulin, extreme hunger, mood swings, gluconoegenesis etc
I have many clients who follow the keto diet but have no wish to ever compete nor be a BB. Many are post natal women and some just looking to drop weight to get into shape for any number of reasons. The diet is as varied as you make it...it is the same as the low carb diet without starchy carbs and limited veggies...protein sources are the same...it doesnt have to be boring..only if you make it so. Showing them the diet is much different then explaining how it works and offering proof as in client before and after photos. A recent client recently dropped 40lbs and was able to overcome PCOS to become pregnant when Dr's said it wasnt possible...thanks to the keto diet.
P

Not so sure I agree with those limitations you list as they don`t affect me much, but glad you are able to help out others with the keto diet.

[Praetorian]

Not so sure I agree with those limitations you list as they don`t affect me much, but glad you are able to help out others with the keto diet.

You can do blood work to measure test levels as you diet...youll be amazed...although you cant be on aas.
The keto diet has helped thousands of people and has been used by the medical community to control or eliminate specific conditions...namely epilepsy....it was used exclusively to almost eliminate epilepsy in children years ago prior to the drugs we now have available. Also it has been used to control or eliminat type 2 diabetes. Do a search on My big fat diet...its a documentary where an entire town goes on a keto diet.
Most people fail on the keto diet because they are not running it correctly...too many carbs, too much fat etc or they fail mentally because they panic in the first month.
P

[devo09]

lol
You guys are looking at fat burning as an ON/OFF switch, which it isn't
Even with insulin present, fat WILL be burned (if your in a deficit)

Why would you automatically completely drop all of your carbs?
Your metabolic rate will drop MUCH faster if you do this. Which might not be that big of a problem if your can introduce clen/T3/etc, but for a natural if your metabolic rate is in the shitter, and you still have fat to lose, you're ****ed

AND, when you deplete glycogen for so long, you lose the ability to synthesize glycogen, so when you introduce carbs back in the diet (unless you do it VERY slowly) your going to gain a LOT of fat. . I always see the guys that do keto diets get REALLY fat/bloated after a show lol


oh ya, and ketogenic diets offer no metabolic advantages over moderate/low carb diets

Johnston CS et. al. Ketogenic low-carbohydrate diets have no metabolic advantage over nonketogenic low-carbohydrate diets. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. (2006) 83: 1055-1061

Background:Low-carbohydrate diets may promote greater weight loss than does the conventional low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet. Objective:We compared weight loss and biomarker change in adults adhering to a ketogenic low-carbohydrate (KLC) diet or a nonketogenic low-carbohydrate (NLC) diet. Design:Twenty adults were randomly assigned to the KLC (60% of energy as fat, beginning with 5% of energy as carbohydrate) or NLC (30% of energy as fat; 40% of energy as carbohydrate) diet. During the 6-wk trial, participants were sedentary, and 24-h intakes were strictly controlled. Results:Mean (±SE) weight losses (6.3 ± 0.6 and 7.2 ± 0.8 kg in KLC and NLC dieters, respectively; P = 0.324) and fat losses (3.4 and 5.5 kg in KLC and NLC dieters, respectively; P = 0.111) did not differ significantly by group after 6 wk. Blood ß-hydroxybutyrate in the KLC dieters was 3.6 times that in the NLC dieters at week 2 (P = 0.018), and LDL cholesterol was directly correlated with blood ß-hydroxybutyrate (r = 0.297, P = 0.025). Overall, insulin sensitivity and resting energy expenditure increased and serum -glutamyltransferase concentrations decreased in both diet groups during the 6-wk trial (P < 0.05). However, inflammatory risk (arachidonic acid:eicosapentaenoic acid ratios in plasma phospholipids) and perceptions of vigor were more adversely affected by the KLC than by the NLC diet. [b] Conclusions:KLC and NLC diets were equally effective in reducing body weight and insulin resistance, but the KLC diet was associated with several adverse metabolic and emotional effects. The use of ketogenic diets for weight loss is not warranted.

[devo09]

You can do blood work to measure test levels as you diet...youll be amazed...although you cant be on aas.
The keto diet has helped thousands of people and has been used by the medical community to control or eliminate specific conditions...namely epilepsy....it was used exclusively to almost eliminate epilepsy in children years ago prior to the drugs we now have available. Also it has been used to control or eliminat type 2 diabetes. Do a search on My big fat diet...its a documentary where an entire town goes on a keto diet.
Most people fail on the keto diet because they are not running it correctly...too many carbs, too much fat etc or they fail mentally because they panic in the first month.
P
its not the carbs that have introduced metabolic derangements into most of society

its a lack of inactivity+food abundance leading to insulin resistance and obesity

look up a study on "thrifty genes"

Also, the idea that keto diets help with test levels in nonsense. If your deficient in dietary fat you may have lower test levels, but a high fat intake won't raise test levels anymore than a moderate fat diet

[Praetorian]

lol
You guys are looking at fat burning as an ON/OFF switch, which it isn't
Even with insulin present, fat WILL be burned (if your in a deficit)
AS INSULIN RISES GLUCAGON FALLS AND WITH SO DOES FAT BURNING...IT MAY NOT HALT ALTOGTHER BUT IT IS DRASTICALLY SLOWED

Why would you automatically completely drop all of your carbs?
YOU DONT DROP ALL CARBS ONLY ENOUGH TO GET INTO KETOSIS IF THAT IS THE DIET YOU ARE DOING...YOU STILL REQUIRE 50G DAILY
Your metabolic rate will drop MUCH faster if you do this. Which might not be that big of a problem if your can introduce clen/T3/etc, but for a natural if your metabolic rate is in the shitter, and you still have fat to lose, you're ****ed THIS IS THE PURPOSE OF THE WEEKLY CHEAT MEAL...THE METABOLISM SLOWS BECAUSE CONVERSION OF T4 TO T3 SLOWS....THE CHEAT MEAL INCREASES THIS AND EFFECTIVELY HALTS METABOLISM SLOW DOWN

AND, when you deplete glycogen for so long, you lose the ability to synthesize glycogen, so when you introduce carbs back in the diet (unless you do it VERY slowly) your going to gain a LOT of fat. . I always see the guys that do keto diets get REALLY fat/bloated after a show lol YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GAIN ALOT OF FAT UNLESS YOU OVEREAT...JUST THE SAME AS IN ANY DIET...ONCE A KETO DIET IS FINSHED YOU DO HAVE TO INTRODUCE CARBS SLOWLY...THE SAME AS A REGUALR DIET BECAUSE THE BODY BECOMES VERY CARB SENSISTIVE AND IS NOT AS EFFICIENT AT METABOLIZING CARBS....THIS OCCURS WITH A LOW CARB DIET AS WELL...IT TAKES ABOUT 6 WEEKS TO GET BACK TO NORMAL. ALSO YOU WONT BE ABLE TO OVEREAT CABRS AND GAIN FAT WITHOUT FIRST RUNNING INTO SEVER WATER RETENTION IE PERIPHERAL EDEMA...WHICH CAN LEAD TO CARDIAC ISSUE....DOESNT MATTER WHICH DIET IS USED





oh ya, and ketogenic diets offer no metabolic advantages over moderate/low carb diets

Johnston CS et. al. Ketogenic low-carbohydrate diets have no metabolic advantage over nonketogenic low-carbohydrate diets. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. (2006) 83: 1055-1061

Background:Low-carbohydrate diets may promote greater weight loss than does the conventional low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet. Objective:We compared weight loss and biomarker change in adults adhering to a ketogenic low-carbohydrate (KLC) diet or a nonketogenic low-carbohydrate (NLC) diet. Design:Twenty adults were randomly assigned to the KLC (60% of energy as fat, beginning with 5% of energy as carbohydrate) or NLC (30% of energy as fat; 40% of energy as carbohydrate) diet. During the 6-wk trial, participants were sedentary, and 24-h intakes were strictly controlled. Results:Mean (±SE) weight losses (6.3 ± 0.6 and 7.2 ± 0.8 kg in KLC and NLC dieters, respectively; P = 0.324) and fat losses (3.4 and 5.5 kg in KLC and NLC dieters, respectively; P = 0.111) did not differ significantly by group after 6 wk. Blood ß-hydroxybutyrate in the KLC dieters was 3.6 times that in the NLC dieters at week 2 (P = 0.018), and LDL cholesterol was directly correlated with blood ß-hydroxybutyrate (r = 0.297, P = 0.025). Overall, insulin sensitivity and resting energy expenditure increased and serum -glutamyltransferase concentrations decreased in both diet groups during the 6-wk trial (P < 0.05). However, inflammatory risk (arachidonic acid:eicosapentaenoic acid ratios in plasma phospholipids) and perceptions of vigor were more adversely affected by the KLC than by the NLC diet. [b] Conclusions:KLC and NLC diets were equally effective in reducing body weight and insulin resistance, but the KLC diet was associated with several adverse metabolic and emotional effects. The use of ketogenic diets for weight loss is not warranted.
A SIMPLE SEARCH WILL UNCOVER MANY STUDIES DISAGREEING WITH THE ABOVE, A FEW YEARS AGO THE AJCN SAID HIGH CARB LOW FAT DIETS WERE THE MOST EFFECTIVE...HMM.





Caps are not yelling just to differentiate my comments.
P

[Praetorian]

its not the carbs that have introduced metabolic derangements into most of society

its a lack of inactivity+food abundance leading to insulin resistance and obesity

look up a study on "thrifty genes"

Also, the idea that keto diets help with test levels in nonsense. If your deficient in dietary fat you may have lower test levels, but a high fat intake won't raise test levels anymore than a moderate fat diet

It definitely is lack of activity and food abundance yes...in the form of processed carbohydrate. In the last 30 years or so with the introduction of HFCS into the American diet....it is proliferant in 90% of all foods...obesity and type 2 diabetes has skyrocketed. The incidence of type 2 diabetes in children (which was unheard of 30 years ago) is not due to inactivity or abundance of food...it is processed carbohydrate....corn specifically...which by the way is subsidized by the top food corporations in America...which is why it is cheaper to buy breakfast cereal then broccoli.
The body thrives on protein, fat, nuts . legumes, fibrous carbs etc...its called the paleolithic diet...the human body has not been around long enough to evolve to process what the average person eats today.
P

[Ritch]

the human body has not been around long enough to evolve to process what the average person eats today.
P

That may be true, but they didn`t bodybuild back then, with bodybuilding things change and what was ideal then, may not be now...

Gotta head out, but this conversation is interesting, props to devo with his posts.

[Ritch]

Even with low glycemic carbs insulin is not as stable as when in ketosis. Fat is also lower which increases hunger because of less satiety...insoluble fibre will decrease transit time as well.
P

May not be as stable, but it`s not a problem, I don`t know why you`re so set out to make it seem that way... Especially when the carbs are taken pre post and second post workout meal.

[jamex]

Most people fail on the keto diet because they are not running it correctly...too many carbs, too much fat etc or they fail mentally because they panic in the first month.
P

just curious about too much fat...is the only effect that you end up storing more fat then you're burning off? I'm still not clear on how much is too much fat to consume. You want just enough to get into\stay in ketosis, but no more than that minimum so that you're burning fat stores and not dietary fat?

[Praetorian]

May not be as stable, but it`s not a problem, I don`t know why you`re so set out to make it seem that way... Especially when the carbs are taken pre post and second post workout meal.

Im just making a comparison...one is more stable than the other...the issue becomes a problem when you take a vary carb sensitive person and put them on a standard low carb type diet...they do not respond well and many of the issues I posted above become very apparent.
P

[Praetorian]

That may be true, but they didn`t bodybuild back then, with bodybuilding things change and what was ideal then, may not be now...

Gotta head out, but this conversation is interesting, props to devo with his posts.

The body still metabolizes certain types of foods much more effectively and efficiently...so no they did not BB back then but working with the body instead of against it will provide better performance in sedentary life as well as sport.
P

[Ritch]

Im just making a comparison...one is more stable than the other...the issue becomes a problem when you take a vary carb sensitive person and put them on a standard low carb type diet...they do not respond well and many of the issues I posted above become very apparent.
P

Most definitely it`s about how good or bad the person`s insulin sensitivity is. I`m guessing mine is rather high and is why I can do it the way I can. The endomorhps tend to do well on keto, I`m more of a natural ecto...

[Praetorian]

just curious about too much fat...is the only effect that you end up storing more fat then you're burning off? I'm still not clear on how much is too much fat to consume. You want just enough to get into\stay in ketosis, but no more than that minimum so that you're burning fat stores and not dietary fat?

On a keto diet too much fat per meal will slow fat loss..ie BF being used for fuel. On a competition diet to get extremely lean the fat will need to be removed on alternate days once you reach 4-6 weeks out. For a 200lb BB on a keto diet the average would be about 20-25g per meal and 6 meals.
P

[chiplin]

Is this the number 1 recommended diet for a 5'9 190lb male wanting to get down to 180ish and lean ? Seems pretty solid. Just eat as it says everyday, but for how long ? Until the cut is done ?

[Praetorian]

Is this the number 1 recommended diet for a 5'9 190lb male wanting to get down to 180ish and lean ? Seems pretty solid. Just eat as it says everyday, but for how long ? Until the cut is done ?

Its not the only diet but it is a good one. The thing about all cutting diets is they are not static, they change over time along with increases in cardio etc.
If you just eat whats on the diet from day one and make no other changes youll stagnate after awhile.
P

[07Zixsix]

I just started this diet... I have lots of energy in the gym which is great... However I feel like I'm having some problems choking down all the food in the day...

I can barely eat the 8oz of chicken and the morning meal of 5 eggs and 4 eggwhites is impossible for me to eat. (I sub a 5 oz can of tuna and 3 eggs)

Do you have to eat all of what is required in the diet?

[rickyboy36]

I just started this diet... I have lots of energy in the gym which is great... However I feel like I'm having some problems choking down all the food in the day...

I can barely eat the 8oz of chicken and the morning meal of 5 eggs and 4 eggwhites is impossible for me to eat. (I sub a 5 oz can of tuna and 3 eggs)

Do you have to eat all of what is required in the diet?

Its either you have too many clories from fat..or you're just not use to it yet.Give it time and you'll see you"ll be LICKING everything off your plate..loll

[Praetorian]

Exactly...your hunger will build over time...enjoy this while it lasts.
P

[Talo]

Let say doing this diet ( or any for that matter ) and your trying to get all 6 meals in , but you just ran out of time Next thing you know it's 5pm and have only had three meals ( 1 whole and 1 shakes ) is it ok to combine 2 meals together to get in the daily calories ? I've always been under the impression that try hard to get in the separate meals , but if needed combining 2 or more is ok .

Also I know some guys that will make up all their food the nigh before and put it ALL in one or two plastic tubs and just pick at it all day until it's done... WHat are your thought on that ?

[Praetorian]

Let say doing this diet ( or any for that matter ) and your trying to get all 6 meals in , but you just ran out of time Next thing you know it's 5pm and have only had three meals ( 1 whole and 1 shakes ) is it ok to combine 2 meals together to get in the daily calories ? I've always been under the impression that try hard to get in the separate meals , but if needed combining 2 or more is ok .

Also I know some guys that will make up all their food the nigh before and put it ALL in one or two plastic tubs and just pick at it all day until it's done... WHat are your thought on that ?

Doubling up meals is not good. You should be eating roughly every three hours. Dieting is all about being organized and having things prepared. With the addition of shakes as three of the meals there realy is no excuse for not getting in all six meals. Combining meals will mean doubling calories during that time and possibly trace carbs this will not work in your favour.
Meals NEED to be timed properly....not picked at half hazardly that will lead to failure on the diet.
P

[L3]

Give it time and you'll see you"ll be LICKING everything off your plate..loll

im carrying my cashews in a ziplock bag, i find myself turning it inside out and licking it to get all the crumbs out

[rickyboy36]

im carrying my cashews in a ziplock bag, i find myself turning it inside out and licking it to get all the crumbs out

hahah..you should see me when i make scrambled eggs.I literally lick the plate when im finished..lol

[chiplin]

For this diet, is this the meal plans for EVERY day, or just training days ? Also, I have some cheap protein Body Fortress or something and every 2 scoops in 52g or protein, but I'm unaware of the sugar/carb gram number. If the carbs are moderately high, does it count as a direct source of carbs ?

Also, for snacking, if necessary, dark green vegetables/low starch vegetables ?

[tiramisu]

no snacking and whey isolate.
same meals every day.

[chiplin]

For what time period ? Until your cutting goal is reached ? Then continue with something in major similarity to it ?

[rickyboy36]

For what time period ? Until your cutting goal is reached ? Then continue with something in major similarity to it ?

Its really not that hard..and if you would a search there is tons of info EVERYWHERE.You eat the damn same thing..day in and day out..on training and non training days.The foods you pick must not contain carbs...except for trace carbs(id say no more than 5-6 carbs a meal)..and in my opinion you should not go over 35 trace carbs spread over a 24 time period.You have one carb up meal every week where you eat it on your last meal of the day.It should contain 500 carbs plus your protein.

[warlock]

Dude, warlock only said that because InPursuitofPerfection is boxing and asked if the keto diet would cause muscle loss because of the high intensity training and lack of glycogen.


Great that you actually read what I said.

I have done a keto last summer and loved it, I only had cravings when I drank alcohol (1 drink only in 2 different occasions) and I felt great all the time.

NO Gi issues as long as drink enough water.

I still believe that keto diets are great but not for every person.

[warlock]

a person that knows basic cooking adn has a justa bit of imaghination can develop a meal plan and rotate his foods and not feel sick of eating precisely teh same thing over and over.

When summer comes I may go back to a keto

[chiplin]

I'm really excited to start this.
As long as I eat as it says, avoiding direct carbohydrates will probably be the hardest part. I'm a big fan of beans and it's sorts, but I believe I can make success out of it.

What's the deal with the cheat-carb day ? How does that work ?

[tiramisu]

not day, meal. and within moderation.

[07Zixsix]

I kinda figured that time would be a factor...

As for right now the hardest meal of the day for me is Meal 1...

I just can't eat all those eggs that early in the morning...
This morning I did ok though...
4 Egg Whites and 3 Whole Eggs... Other than that... I can eat everything else in my meals... Just not Meal 1...

But Damn I love this so far... I've lost a little over 7lbs in water weight. Started this on Sunday... I have been getting some mild head aches from not having any sugar and carbs, but they are subsiding.

And energy is certainly not a problem on this diet... I'm doing over 1 hr of 120-140bpm bike and I feel like i could keep on going...

I'm getting sick of Eggs, but really am enjoying the weight loss so I'll suck it up for the 4 months that I'm doing this.

[Talo]

I have been getting some mild head aches from not having any sugar and carbs, but they are subsiding.



A sign of addiction (Withdrawal), prob the sugar .

[07Zixsix]

Just for reference is anyone doing anything different with their workouts that is showing substancial gains...

I used to be a moderately big guy... never really had a great physique but lots of strenght... Since then I've let my self go a bit and jacked back up to 225 and around 22%bf...

I basically want to get back down to the 180 mark and just look cut and have a good physique...

My workout routine is as follows for at least the first couple weeks...
Cardio Every day for at least 40 mins

1 and 5: Back and Bis:
3 Exercises for each group of 3-4 sets
15-20 mins of Abs

2 and 6: Chest and Tricepts:
3 Exercises for each group of 3-4 sets
15-20 mins of Abs

3: Shoulders Legs
3 Exercises for each group of 3-4 sets

4 and 7: Day off: Cardio only (Soccer) on Day 4

[chiplin]

No indirect source of carbs means what ? No carb-based food ? It's okay if it's a small amount naturally ?

Also for the salmon meal, is it okay to fry up some ground beef instead ? I'm 17 with a shitty part time job, I can't afford to buy salmon all the time to eat once a day.

[Chaps]

Currently 230lbs @ 16% train dc style m-w-f, should i be following the outline for the 200lb or 250lb man? suggestions pleassssssssssse. Also currently on testE/mastE it will be run for the duration of that diet.

[rickyboy36]

No indirect source of carbs means what ? No carb-based food ? It's okay if it's a small amount naturally ?

Also for the salmon meal, is it okay to fry up some ground beef instead ? I'm 17 with a shitty part time job, I can't afford to buy salmon all the time to eat once a day.

Bro..did you read the post i wrote?Did you read anything in here?You are asking the same questions over and over.NO CARBS EXCEPT FROM LETTUCE WHICH HARDLY HAS ANY..JUST TRACE CARBS THAT ARE IN FOODS.EXAMPLE:AN EGG.IT HAS 1 CARB IN IT.NUTS HAVE TRACE CARBS .TRY NOT TO GO OVER 6-7GRAMS OF TRACE CARBS A MEAL.GROUND BEEF IS OK....

[sparrowm]

When it gets difficult is in the last 4-6 weeks but every diet beco
es difficult in the last 4-6 weeks.[/QUOTE]


Why does the diet get hard the last 4-6 weeks? I thought the Macro's stayed the same for the whole 16 weeks.

[rickyboy36]

When it gets difficult is in the last 4-6 weeks but every diet beco
es difficult in the last 4-6 weeks.


Why does the diet get hard the last 4-6 weeks? I thought the Macro's stayed the same for the whole 16 weeks.[/QUOTE]

I gets harder because your body is telling you "its enough"(a question of survival so to speak)..and therefore your hunger is more apparent..and the weight loss comes to a halt practically until you change things up again.At that stage it usually means dropping calories..

[sparrowm]

Why does the diet get hard the last 4-6 weeks? I thought the Macro's stayed the same for the whole 16 weeks.

I gets harder because your body is telling you "its enough"(a question of survival so to speak)..and therefore your hunger is more apparent..and the weight loss comes to a halt practically until you change things up again.At that stage it usually means dropping calories..[/QUOTE]

thanks rickyboy36

[tiramisu]

The easiest way to follow DP's template is to get it from the horse's mouth. Check out his thread on rxmuscle. Where this board is helpful is when it comes time to tweak the exercise, diet, clen or just generally be supportive. Diets are not static (rats).

[ubcpower]

I gets harder because your body is telling you "its enough"(a question of survival so to speak)..and therefore your hunger is more apparent..and the weight loss comes to a halt practically until you change things up again.At that stage it usually means dropping calories..

Have you ever worked with dave?

His diet gets harder in the less 4-6 weeks because he pulls fats and implements protein/veggie days only and at times has you doing 3 hrs of cardio/day + Posing

[natenator]

I gets harder because your body is telling you "its enough"(a question of survival so to speak)..and therefore your hunger is more apparent..and the weight loss comes to a halt practically until you change things up again.At that stage it usually means dropping calories..

Have you ever worked with dave?

His diet gets harder in the less 4-6 weeks because he pulls fats and implements protein/veggie days only and at times has you doing 3 hrs of cardio/day + Posing
thank you for saying it. My reply would have been less polite :D

[sparrowm]

Does anybody have a link to what the last 6 weeks might be like, as far as P/V days, a sample day for a 200lb man.

[natenator]

Does anybody have a link to what the last 6 weeks might be like, as far as P/V days, a sample day for a 200lb man.
no. A diet is not static.

I could tell you what it is but I will not.

[Praetorian]

There is no set schedule....it all depends on the clients condition...some need more p/v days some need less...the same can be said for cardio.
P

[btufts]

it definately depends on the day and conditioning, you get a feel for what needs to be done as you get more ripped up and closer to contest

[Talo]

no.

I could tell you what it is but I will not.

Your an ass!









J/k :)

[sparrowm]

no. A diet is not static.

I could tell you what it is but I will not.


Whats with the attitude bro?

[sparrowm]

Thanks for the other replies guys. I understand each individual may respond differently as the diet progresses. There is so much information on the internet about the core diet, that I thought there may be an example of what a p/v day might look like.

[PITVIPER]

Hey Guys Please don't pick me apart for being fat but I am ready for change. And I was hoping for some guidance I am 6 ft 280lbs BF% is around 35-36 (yah i know gross)I have been going to the YMCA here in London for 3 weeks now and have been really enjoying the change in life style. I want to know if you guys can help me tweak this diet to better suit me so I can get rid of the extra weight. Thanks in advance.

[L3]

no need to tweak the diet. go to the grocery store, buy the stuff, and follow it.
cardio 2ce a day, 45 mins to start, keep HR under 120BMP, bike works for me

[natenator]

no need to tweak the diet. go to the grocery store, buy the stuff, and follow it.
cardio 2ce a day, 45 mins to start, keep HR under 120BMP, bike works for me
120-130

[devo09]

120-130

HR is dependent on age/training status...giving number recommendations is stupid because it can't be applied to everyone..if your going to tell someone to stay in their "fat burning" :rolleyes: zone then they should just stay below 65ish% of Max heart rate.

[PITVIPER]

no need to tweak the diet. go to the grocery store, buy the stuff, and follow it.
cardio 2ce a day, 45 mins to start, keep HR under 120BMP, bike works for me

Cool I wasn't exactly sure if that diet should change depending on a person BF%.

now as far as the meal plan is concerned is the meal that is showing what I will eat everyday or are there variations? and if there are variations could somebody show me where to find them so I can print them off and stick em on my fridge ;) I have tried to find some and can't find anything very informative.
Thanks in advance guys looking forward to a lean mean new me

[Praetorian]

The diet varies as per lean body mass...there are variations from 250lbs, 230lbs, 200lbs, 180lbs...etc The amount of protein and fat change depending on what category you fall into. Cardio always starts at once per day...things are not static so you need to have room...you never lay all your cards on the table at once...tweaks happen on a weekly to bi weekly basis otherwise the body adapts and fat loss comes to a screeching halt.
P

[ubcpower]

The diet varies as per lean body mass...there are variations from 250lbs, 230lbs, 200lbs, 180lbs...etc The amount of protein and fat change depending on what category you fall into. Cardio always starts at once per day...things are not static so you need to have room...you never lay all your cards on the table at once...tweaks happen on a weekly to bi weekly basis otherwise the body adapts and fat loss comes to a screeching halt.
P

That being said the first week working with Dave the weight loss is absolutely astronomical, especially if you have been doing no cardio in the offseason. For the majority of clients, he transitions you right into his Keto diet and starts you doing 30 min cardio every day. When i worked with him i came into the diet at around 210 at about 9-10% and by weeks end i was down to 201. Not to be worried though as majority of it was water weight that really flushes out when you drop the carbs. Incorporate a new drug regime/thermo's(which i did not) on top of that and first week weight loss could even be more intense.

[PITVIPER]

As far as Cardio goes I think I'll get a heartmonitor I can wear on my wrist and do my Cardio outside. I can't seem to get Jiggy with Cardio at the gym but I love trail walking and walking hills etc etc with the dog you guys are great I didn't know what to expect joining this forum but so far its been good looking forward to many years.

[tiramisu]

heart monitor is fun but not really required a comfortable walk will put you where you want to be.

9 pounds in week one is pretty surprising @ 10% you must have been holding a fair bit of water.

I was about 6 pounds @ ~19%

[RayBee]

Hi Everyone,...:flagC I'm new to the forum and am in my second day of Keto (Ouch!). I wanted to begin logging my results as the next few weeks come and go since it seems real world experiences are appreciated here. I also wanted to get some advice on the training end of things. Here's my situation:

41 y/o male prepping for first Natural BB show in 5 weeks. Been dieting for 6 months now using Professionally coached (Not Dave) Carb Cycling plan. Been doing twice weekly HIIT and 8 times weekly steady state cardio performed during twice daily sessions. I've been training 4-5 times per week on an Upper/Lower functional lifting based plan repeated twice weekly. Strength has held firm with a couple PR's as I have come down from 240 lbs., 25% bf to 193 lbs., ~8% bf. Obviously I was a fat SOB, thus the long prep. Averaged 2 lbs. loss per week. Pics Attached.

Since I've got stubborn fat remaining in my gut, gluteals, and legs I am now switched over to Keto for the final push, exactly as outlined by Dave. I'm now doing twice daily steady state cardio spinbike at 45 mins each, 7 days a week.

Given my history over the last 6 months, would you guys suggest changing up my weekly workout approach to optimize muscle conservation these last 5 weeks on Keto. Here is a brief summary of how it looks now:

Mon - Lower Body w/ Squat focus

Free Squat - 4 sets, 6-10 reps
Bulgarian Split Squat - 3 sets, 8 reps
Cable Pull-Throughs - 3 sets, 12 reps
Seated Leg Curls - 3 sets, 14 reps
Tues - Upper Body w/ Bench focus

BB Bench Press - 4 sets, 6-8 reps
Weighted Dips - 3 sets, 8-10 reps
Pec Dec - 3 sets, 12-14 reps
Pullups - 5 sets, 6-10 reps
Bent BB Rows - 3 sets, 8-12 reps
Hammer Rows - 4 sets, 8-12 reps
Thurs - Lower Body w/ Deadlift focus

Sumo Deadlift - 4 sets, 5-12 reps
BB Stepups - 4 sets, 8 reps
Single Leg Romanian Deadlift - 3 sets, 10 reps
Leg Extensions - 3 sets, 12 reps
Fri - Upper Body w/ Hypertrophy focus

DB Press, 4 sets, 8 reps
Close Grip BB Press, 3 sets, 8-10 reps
Machine Press s/s DB Flyes, 3 sets, 8-12 reps
Pulldowns, 4 sets, 10 reps
Seated Pulley Rows, 3 sets, 10 reps
DB Rows, 3 sets, 10 reps
Sat - Upper Body w/ Shoulder/Arm focus

Military Press (Standing), 4 sets, 6-8 reps
Standing DB Laterals, 3 sets, 12 reps
Reverse PecDec, 3 sets, 10-12 reps
Skullcrushers, 4 sets, 12 reps
Pushdowns, 3 sets, 12 reps
EZ Curl Bar, 3 sets, 10 reps
DB Curls, 3 sets, 10 reps
Hammer Curls, 2 sets, 10 reps
Whew! Thanks for reading this far. Is the volume too high for Keto? Should I move to a once weekly bodypart scenario? Not sure what day of the week the cheat meal will fall on yet. Or is this a situation where it's not wise to muck with a proven track record....? Thanks for any input.

[tiramisu]

Hi Everyone,...:flagC I'm new to the forum and am in my second day of Keto (Ouch!). I wanted to begin logging my results as the next few weeks come and go since it seems real world experiences are appreciated here. I also wanted to get some advice on the training end of things. Here's my situation:

41 y/o male prepping for first Natural BB show in 5 weeks. Been dieting for 6 months now using Professionally coached (Not Dave) Carb Cycling plan. Been doing twice weekly HIIT and 8 times weekly steady state cardio performed during twice daily sessions. I've been training 4-5 times per week on an Upper/Lower functional lifting based plan repeated twice weekly. Strength has held firm with a couple PR's as I have come down from 240 lbs., 25% bf to 193 lbs., ~8% bf. Obviously I was a fat SOB, thus the long prep. Averaged 2 lbs. loss per week. Pics Attached.

Since I've got stubborn fat remaining in my gut, gluteals, and legs I am now switched over to Keto for the final push, exactly as outlined by Dave. I'm now doing twice daily steady state cardio spinbike at 45 mins each, 7 days a week.

Given my history over the last 6 months, would you guys suggest changing up my weekly workout approach to optimize muscle conservation these last 5 weeks on Keto. Here is a brief summary of how it looks now:



Is Shelby Starnes your trainer? Why the change to keto in the last 5 weeks?

[RayBee]

Is Shelby Starnes your trainer? Why the change to keto in the last 5 weeks?

Good guess,...and Yes. Though only for the diet portion. In the last couple weeks I began to plateau. With needed modifications I started to dump TOO much weight/muscle. Attempts to reset/refill my metabolism worked but with time running short and considerable pudge clinging for life he opted to throw the big Keto guns so there'd be no more guessing. At least that's my impression of the how/why...

[tiramisu]

I'm not sure how you will react to keto this late in the game. I started on dp's template initially and I was pretty low energy in the second week. Energy recovered in week 3. Generally I don't have a lot of stamina for volume but I've been able to maintain my strength, and improve on small lifts so far (week 7). I've been using a DC style 3 day a week program and haven't felt the need to go to a 4 day program so far (currently at ~12% so I'm not feeling the pain yet). I seem to be holding muscle quite well so far but the next few weeks start to get a little more interesting.

[Techmass]

I have be lazy and out of it, but I am getting sick of this gut...

This is my time to live real, I been around trying to pull it to the easy way, but finding out I am doing it all wrong.

Anyways I am 5'9
190LB

12BF% - MAYBE

I am hoping to do this dave guys diet plan.

For a 200lb man:

MEAL #1
5 whole eggs (make sure to buy omega-3 EGGS from the supermarket. They contain virtually NO saturated fat and tons of good omega-3 fats); add another 4 egg whites to this (they don?t need to be the omega-3 ones; you can use liquid egg whites)

MEAL #2
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoon of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar)

MEAL #3
"Lean Protein Meal": 8oz chicken with 1/2-cup cashew nuts (almonds, or walnuts)

MEAL #4
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoons of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar added)

MEAL #5
"Fatty Protein Meal": 8oz Salmon, Swordfish, or RED MEAT with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar

MEAL #6
SHAKE: 50g Whey with 1 ? tablespoon all natural peanut butter or 4 whole (omega-3) eggs and 4 extra whites

Anyways if I were to do this for the next 12 weeks.

Doing a 30min workout and a 45min ski machine

with taking clen each day

Would I lose some good pounds/

LOoKING TO LOSE MY GUT, Everything esle is pretty much bones and muscle just my gut and man boobs need the fat gone.

What you think?

[ubcpower]

if you follow the diet to a tee you will get results.
HOWEVER, the ski machine? is this a sled type machine? if so , it is way too high intensity.
His cardio protocol is once you start the diet begin with 30 mins cardio per day. HEart rate should be between 120bpm and 130bpm.
Do a search, there was a recent thread talking about exactly this issue

[Paully25]

I just read through all 38 pages of this thing :eek: and printed off the diet guidelines to follow.

Question - can you take a PWO on it? I am currently using Superpump250.

Cheers

[JacktheThriller]

learn how to read nutritional information. just checked site superpump has 8 carbs per scoop i wouldnt take it that is a lot of your allotted carb count and can take away from veggies and tasteboosters

[Paully25]

learn how to read nutritional information. just checked site superpump has 8 carbs per scoop i wouldnt take it that is a lot of your allotted carb count and can take away from veggies and tasteboosters

ya - I did read that...just was seeing if that was a no-no, which it sounds like it is, so I guess the SP250 will be collecting dust for a while!

Thanks

[JacktheThriller]

save it for carb up and run some agreeable creatine during the week.

If you look into TKD it mentions information on pre-workout carbs, the SP250 may be fine if you follow that diet. its keto based too

[RayBee]

It's been a week on the diet so here's an update:

In my first 7 days I've lost 7.8 lbs. This is after 5 months of hardcore carb cycling contest prep mind you. No doubt a good portion of it was fat, a majority was water, and it remains to be seen how much might have been muscle. I'm much more defined but quite a bit smaller it seems. This is the first time I can remember going without carbs and I know my body is freaking out.

This induction phase is killing me. The shift is playing havoc with my strength and stamina. Trips to the mailbox leave me winded, dizzy, and with a lactic acid type burn. I feel high all day; oddly serene and mellow, yet irritable all at the same time. A custom change from my diet coach is to have my first cheat meal this evening rather than wait another 7 days.

As for the workout question I have eliminated the fifth 'catch-all' day and merged it into the remaining four days of the week. All working sets are limited now to 2 sets per exercise and I've begun to take less rest between sets. Workouts last 45 mins to an hour instead of 1.5 hours.

I'm now a little over 4 weeks out and will post more pics as we get closer.

A quick note on this diet is how much easier it is to prep everything. Except for the fact that I visit the store more often for perishable fish and egg items, it's way easier to cook meals. Heat some chicken, pour out some nuts and boom I'm done. Though it is true that all the eggs are already wearing on me a bit.

So, if nothing else, hopefully my posts here will show whether or not switching to Keto mid prep is a good way to break fat loss plateau's or not.....

[N00bBT]

Is there anyway we can replace eggs on the 200lbs template? They are making me sick and ive tried different ways of eating them;

-Salt, pepper & paprika
-Hotsauce
-Savory herbs
-Plain

I have never been a fan of eggs and they make me gage everytime, i still eat them but can i replace some or all with something else... Like cheese for example or another meat...

[tiramisu]

Frank's hot sauce and scrambled eggs are quite tolerable. Of course you can replace the eggs with something else. Pick one of the other meals from the template and eat it instead. .... or you could just go for a pint of triple chocolate ice cream with marshmellows :)

[N00bBT]

Yes the frank's hot sauce does make it better, of course i won't go for ice cream! I have no complaints and don't want to modify the diet really, but could i eat 2 same meals instead of eggs?

[tiramisu]

Yes the frank's hot sauce does make it better, of course i won't go for ice cream! I have no complaints and don't want to modify the diet really, but could i eat 2 same meals instead of eggs?

Honestly I don't see any reason why you couldn't substitute a chicken meal or something similar with little or no impact.

The lack of flavour in the first few weeks is kind of painful but after 4 or 5 weeks I found I look forward to whatever variety there is in the diet.

[N00bBT]

I love meat and fish, i always have! I get a good variety cooked boiled bbq differantly ex; horse, beef, lamb, bisson(en-spl?) chicken, turkey, salmon etc... So i dont have a problem with repititive i actually love the diet except for the eggs... So if somebody would like to confirm i would like that. Thank you!

[RayBee]

My Keto experiment is drawing to a close. I'm 3 days out from contest currently. Again it's a natural event, 40 and over class. I had carb cycled my way down to about 9% bodyfat. And have now been on the Palumbo diet for 37 days. I weighed each day and recorded the results in the attached graph. You can see the impact of the weekly cheats and the overall downward trend. I currently weigh 181.4 lbs., down 12.8 over those 37 days. I have been on two cardio sessions at 55 minutes each for the past three weeks. I got hydrostatically weighed last week at 5.1%. Since then I have lost 2.5 lbs. so I suspect I may be in the high 4's. My skin is obviously shot and saggy however due to the large weight loss which totals close to 60 lbs. in 7 months now. The only change to the 200 lb. male Keto plan was the addition of 3 g. fish oil each day and 2 g. Evening Primrose Oil each day. In addition, I took the fatty meal before weight training and the shake meal afterwards. I used 'Nectar' protein which has 0 carbs/sugar whereas IsoPure had trace amounts. My proteins consisted of Tilapia, Cod, Ahi Tuna, Sockeye Salmon, 4% Ground Beef, Chicken Breast, Turkey Breast. Nuts were Almonds, Walnuts, and Cashews.

Conclusion - The hydrostatic weighing revealed that I only lost 3 lbs. lean tissue going from 12% down to 5.1% bodyfat. Considering the cardio load and all I think this is acceptable. Keto is definitely effective and somewhat muscle sparing if you train correctly. I settled on a 2 sets per exercise high intensity heavy loading protocol at 5-8 reps on compound movements and 8-10 on isolation moves. I actually hit a PR on Sumo Deadlift a couple weeks ago. Although I did finally adjust to the Ketones I always felt I had no stamina. Energy comes around but it's never the peaky, intense energy you get from carbs. Conversely, I didn't have as many ups and downs as with carb cycling. Instead it was very consistent and mellow. And, though I did get some euphoria and well being sensations I am looking forward to integrating my oatmeal and rice again post contest. I have to report that I am constantly dizzy while in Ketosis when I stand up. Trips to the mailbox result in extreme lactic muscle burns after climbing the stairs to get back in the house. All cardio sessions started with excruciating weakness and fatigue but usually leveled out after 20 minutes or so to such a point that it was actually enjoyable and I often accidentally went over time as a result.

In the end I can say for sure that switching from carb cycling to Keto mid prep can be an effective approach. Perhaps you're carb sensitive but need your carbs to power your training. Use it until you feel you're plateau'd and make the switch. Or if time is wearing thin and you need to get busy then you might make this switch. For me it was a welcome change of pace after dieting for so long and I'm sure the changeup put my system in a position to experience more gains/losses. Got to keep your body guessing, right?

Thanks for the opportunity to share my experiences. Please don't hesitate to ask any questions. I'm hoping this summary helps those who might be in the same boat as I was. And thanks to Dave for supplying so much available info on this great plan! And of course to Shelby for having me make the switch at just the right time.

Ray.

[tiramisu]

Nicely done. What's next after the contest?

[RayBee]

Nicely done. What's next after the contest?

Interesting you should ask. This being my first ever contest has severely strained my relationship with the wife and my 4 year old son. I've sacrificed and missed out on some potential friendships and many great opportunities, solely to focus on this goal. I'm not down on the whole bodybuilding thing as I see how it could become an addiction. I'm already thinking how I might tweak things and do better next time. But, life is short and there are other things to be accomplished.....Make money, climb mountains, get airplane instrument rating, travel, etc. I'll be transitioning my focus to triathlon training and bicycle racing. My new lighter weight means I won't be as gravity challenged anymore and it may help me hold off the rebound bloat. Initially I just want to taper out and get my metabolism up and running again. This has been an amazing experience, no matter how it turns out at the show. And I'll always be a gym rat, but an assault on the amateur circuit is just not in the cards for me at this point in my life and I've seen too many health complications in my parents to muck with auxillary enhancement so I'll continue to blast away at the gym, but only as a means of getting better at other activities.

On a side note, it's easy to become a little depressed simply because I really like being this lean, yet it is obviously unsustainable. I can't simply start eating willy nilly again because I've worked too hard. I think that's where some of the addiction comes from. Once you've tasted the gold you don't want silver. Not a great analogy but you know what I mean.

[gregdoucette]

the weakly cheats in the diet is why the palumbo diet makes no sense.

[Talo]

Really ? I think it makes sense and I've seen time and time again that it works.

[natenator]

the weakly cheats in the diet is why the palumbo diet makes no sense.
care to explain your thought process? That is, if you actually think.

[madvillain]

Hey guys! I'll be starting the Palumbo diet monday and I have a couple of questions I want to ask because I want to do it right so here it goes

1: Is salad and spinach the only green allowed or can I eat asparagus,brocoli and others?

2: My whey protein has 2g of carbs per scoop is it too much?

3: can I do my cardio workout between meal 1 and 2 or only first thing in the morning/post workout?

[Talo]

1. All Greens

2. That's fine

3. I think it would be ideal to do it first thing , but the important thing is to do it . So do it whenever you can.

[madvillain]

Thanks talo

[tiramisu]

the weakly cheats in the diet is why the palumbo diet makes no sense.

A weekly carb load is quite nice mentally and physically. I'm not sure where this is coming from either.

[tiramisu]

Interesting you should ask. This being my first ever contest has severely strained my relationship with the wife and my 4 year old son. I've sacrificed and missed out on some potential friendships and many great opportunities, solely to focus on this goal. I'm not down on the whole bodybuilding thing as I see how it could become an addiction. I'm already thinking how I might tweak things and do better next time. But, life is short and there are other things to be accomplished.....Make money, climb mountains, get airplane instrument rating, travel, etc. I'll be transitioning my focus to triathlon training and bicycle racing. My new lighter weight means I won't be as gravity challenged anymore and it may help me hold off the rebound bloat. Initially I just want to taper out and get my metabolism up and running again. This has been an amazing experience, no matter how it turns out at the show. And I'll always be a gym rat, but an assault on the amateur circuit is just not in the cards for me at this point in my life and I've seen too many health complications in my parents to muck with auxillary enhancement so I'll continue to blast away at the gym, but only as a means of getting better at other activities.

On a side note, it's easy to become a little depressed simply because I really like being this lean, yet it is obviously unsustainable. I can't simply start eating willy nilly again because I've worked too hard. I think that's where some of the addiction comes from. Once you've tasted the gold you don't want silver. Not a great analogy but you know what I mean.

Well, I'm working on the Bronze at the moment. I've almost leaned out to the point where most people start and I'm hoping to enjoy it for the summer. A nice 10-12% would be a wonderful place to be if one were to switch to a maintenance strength program and concentrate on the other things in life.

Enjoy the bike, mines been in the basement on a trainer for too many years.

[Talo]

I'm wondering Tiramisu are you going to stay on this diet while in a surplus ?

I was watching those video's of Palumbo and he said it is fine . He just adds in about 40-50g of Waxy pre and post workout. Other than that he keeps the food the same just increases the input of protein/fat .

Thoughts ?

[tiramisu]

I'm wondering Tiramisu are you going to stay on this diet while in a surplus ?

I was watching those video's of Palumbo and he said it is fine . He just adds in about 40-50g of Waxy pre and post workout. Other than that he keeps the food the same just increases the input of protein/fat .

Thoughts ?

I've been looking at his bulking version which is essentially the same diet with the addition of a reasonable amount of carbs. I really don't think carb cycling is for me. I need stable blood sugar or I lose it.

For the first couple of weeks I'm just going to try to find a maintenance level of calories. Then I might enjoy it for a month or two.

After that....

I'll probably add carbs in the morning, pre and post wo, and then as my caloric need increases with weight gain I'll probably increase by looking to fat. Adding olive oil or something similar to my diet. (protein base will already be 2 grams and carbs should be adequate to my needs).

I'm looking to shoot for a 250-500 calorie daily excess -> 1/2 - 1 pound weight gain a week and keep going till my abs disappear or it's Jan 1 again.

I'm pretty indifferent to waxy watchyamacallit. I prefer chocolate milk if I really want to snap my head back with carbs otherwise regular food works pretty good for me.

[Praetorian]

the weakly cheats in the diet is why the palumbo diet makes no sense.

It actually makes alot of sense and is one of the reasons why the diet works so well when people utilize it correctly. Anytime you diet even with the standard low fat low carb diet you lower carbohydrates in order to utilize bodyfat as fuel...this is standard for keto or low carb low fat diets....it doesnt make a difference. When you remove or lower carbs to a certain level the body will lower T4 inactive to T3 active thyroid conversion. The cheat meal...or as it really should be called "carb refeed meal" prevents this thryoid downgrade in essence keeping metabolism high. As well on a keto diet you have limited glycogen stores as your carb intake consists of basically trace carbs only. To be able to weight train requires glycogen (ketone bodies are too slow of a fuel source) thus refilling glycogen stores to a point each week helps with training along with the standard trace carbs in the diet. Also the mental aspect is huge while dieting and having a weekly treat allows many people to remain on the diet and stay focused. Eliminating the cheat meal too early will slow fat loss...eliminating it too late will prevent optimum conditioning.
P

[Delt King]

Well said P, now the million dollar question. At what point do the refeeds usually stop during the pre contest prep. Personally i've never gone more than 3 weeks but i've also done 1 week out.


It actually makes alot of sense and is one of the reasons why the diet works so well when people utilize it correctly. Anytime you diet even with the standard low fat low carb diet you lower carbohydrates in order to utilize bodyfat as fuel...this is standard for keto or low carb low fat diets....it doesnt make a difference. When you remove or lower carbs to a certain level the body will lower T4 inactive to T3 active thyroid conversion. The cheat meal...or as it really should be called "carb refeed meal" prevents this thryoid downgrade in essence keeping metabolism high. As well on a keto diet you have limited glycogen stores as your carb intake consists of basically trace carbs only. To be able to weight train requires glycogen (ketone bodies are too slow of a fuel source) thus refilling glycogen stores to a point each week helps with training along with the standard trace carbs in the diet. Also the mental aspect is huge while dieting and having a weekly treat allows many people to remain on the diet and stay focused. Eliminating the cheat meal too early will slow fat loss...eliminating it too late will prevent optimum conditioning.
P

[Adonis13]

well said P. for me its the looking forward to munchin on some bread each saturday that keeps my hopes up. without that cheat meal the diet would be so hard to maintain. ive found that some poeple respond better to loading carbs for 3 meals and some only need 1, where someone else may need a whole day of good carbs to get the mosrt out of the diet. the trick is finding where you fit in and how ur body reacts.

[Praetorian]

Well said P, now the million dollar question. At what point do the refeeds usually stop during the pre contest prep. Personally i've never gone more than 3 weeks but i've also done 1 week out.

On average the 4 week point...but it all depends on conditioning. Some stop at 6 weeks out...some with very fast metabolisms can go to the two week point.
P

[Praetorian]

well said P. for me its the looking forward to munchin on some bread each saturday that keeps my hopes up. without that cheat meal the diet would be so hard to maintain. ive found that some poeple respond better to loading carbs for 3 meals and some only need 1, where someone else may need a whole day of good carbs to get the mosrt out of the diet. the trick is finding where you fit in and how ur body reacts.

One meal is optimal...more than one delays the return to ketosis and slows fat loss...the idea is not to carb up fully...it is only to get some needed glycogen but mainly to avoid the thyroid from lowering conversion. A whole day of carbs would slow fat loss significantly.
P

[kawikaratekid]

Would you be able to space out the carb intake?

[z83]

What's an "intelligent" cheat meal ? Could it be 1 meal over a period of 2-3 hour ? ;) I had a busy/active day + cardio...i'm HUNGRY and only thinking about tomorow night

low fat chips
piece of lasagna
pancakes with fruits + maple syrup
home made cookie/cake
raisin bran (as a laxative)
0% milk + 50g prot.

is that correct ?

[madvillain]

is diet soda like coke zero ok on the diet

[z83]

What's an "intelligent" cheat meal ? Could it be 1 meal over a period of 2-3 hour ? ;) I had a busy/active day + cardio...i'm HUNGRY and only thinking about tomorow night

low fat chips
piece of lasagna
pancakes with fruits + maple syrup
home made cookie/cake
raisin bran (as a laxative)
0% milk + 50g prot.

is that correct ?

could not eat 1/4 of that :(

[madvillain]

whats the maximum amount of carb I can eat in a day? I was looking at my cashews and they have 15g of carb per 1/3 cup and I tought it was a lot.

[jamex]

whats the maximum amount of carb I can eat in a day? I was looking at my cashews and they have 15g of carb per 1/3 cup and I tought it was a lot.

typically between 40-60g daily total. try to keep it under 15-20g in any single meal to avoid exiting ketosis.

[z83]

In my 4th week of the diet. I feel like i'm dissapearing.
I'm down approx 16-17lbs but I lost size :( I hope it's mostly water

Shoulders are smaller and especially arms, 1" smaller

[nisser]

Can i put that "ReaLemon" on my salad (it's the real/fake lemon in a green squeeze bottle)? It says it has 0 calories per 5mL but I'm skeptical.

If not, anything else that people put? I've been eating mostly lettuce but should I switch it up and go for some spinach, brocolli?

[Talo]

If your not sure why not just buy real lemon and squeeze that on ?

[nisser]

If your not sure why not just buy real lemon and squeeze that on ?

It says its 'concentrated lemon juice'. So let me rephrase my question, is Lemon juice ok?

[Talo]

8g of carbs per 100g of juice . So I guess it depends on how much you want to use.

http://www.carb-counter.org/nutrition/09152

[nisser]

The Salad that dave suggests for his clients doesnt taste all that bad....Mix romaine w/spinach add diced cucumber and 1 tbsp extra v olive oil and 1 tbsp balsm vinegar

I'm probably overthinking this but is the salad quoted ok (ie. the cucumber)? Green leaf lettuce is ok as well?

[ubcpower]

supposed to be a green "leafy" salad. Just watch you dont have a serving the size of your bathtub. i believe he says 2 cups ....just keep it green and within moderation

[countrychic]

with the dressing you can also add a bit of mustard and a dash of splenda YUMMY!!

[FitnessModel45]

I was reading the posts made earlier about the cardio protocol on a keto diet (begin with 30 mins ED, and increase by 5 mins every week); and I was just wondering, when do you do this cardio? Immediately following the workout? First thing in the morning? Or in the Evening? Thanks!

[ubcpower]

ideally first thing in the a.m. in a fasted state. second best would be immediately post workout.

[Mastagon]

ran this diet for a while. I found post workout went well. And then I'd throw in a few in the evening every now and again.

[FitnessModel45]

Ah I see! Thanks for the reply guys! I appreciate it!

Just another question, I have a friend that thinks that keto diets aren't as efficient as assessing one's insulin/carb sensitivity and using a carb amount that bests suits them. What can you say to rebut this?

[ubcpower]

post this Q in Praetorian's thread, youll get an educated response backed with personal experience

[FitnessModel45]

Thanks I appreciate that. Where can I find Praetorian's thread?

[natenator]

we have a lovely search function on this forum. It's amazing what happens when you type some shit into it ;)

[MuSuLPhReAk]

Thanks I appreciate that. Where can I find Praetorian's thread?

http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=9496

[FitnessModel45]

natenator -> haha sorry bro, I know how to use the search function but I just didn't know the name of the thread itself

MuSuLPhReAk -> thank you so much! I'm just gonna read through the entire thread first to make sure no one has already asked my question! =)

[JacktheThriller]

i can tell you right now there is no ****ing way there is 35 grams of sugar in Palumbo's diet, on someone with no knowledge of ketogenic diets would post such nonsense

[Talo]

I would also find that very hard to believe .

Also I don't think there is over 50g of carbs.

[JacktheThriller]

maybe if 35 were fiber but 35 sugar sound ****ing nutballs to me

[Shafty]

Easy Jack....I'll ask the mod to remove it.

[NACanada]

I'll be starting this diet tomorrow. One perk so far. Grocery shopping was a breeze!

[natenator]

Let us know how it goes for ya.

[NACanada]

Let us know how it goes for ya.

I will. I have altered it a little. Adding in green vegetables with each meal.

[Big_Papa_B]

I have been doing this diet for the past 5 weeks or so and I am down 30lbs

[NACanada]

So first week almost over and I'm down 5 LBS. Energy has been good and I'm full all the time.

[Talo]

What's a good BBQ sause ?

[rated_rko]

started it yesterday, day 2 now

[Talo]

Get a headache or anything ?

[rated_rko]

nope just hungry all the time....better subside in the next few days

[z83]

nope just hungry all the time....better subside in the next few days

I solved this problem by replacing 2 shakes + pb for fish/chicken + nuts/pb

only shake was post workout

[Talo]

I will and does get much easier . Switching a shake for food is fine too if you have time to cook :)

Personally I find that by the time I get hungry its time to eat anyways. 6 meals isnt always easy to get in.

[rated_rko]

ill see how it goes day 3 now...got a mild headache this morning when i woke up to train...went away after a few hrs of extra sleep..

[Napiergen]

SUPER Interested in what I've read so far and gettin excited! Need a good start after getting back to training seriously again. How much cardio is too much on this diet? I like to do cardio first thing in the morning for 20 - 60mins. Moderate jog. Would doing a tougher cardio session like something from P90X or that insanity workout be too much. Just looking to cut fat at the mo to get back to 10% and then off we go back to where I want to be BF% and in muscle mass.

Oh disregard the cardio just reread it, DUH!

[rated_rko]

Day5:
Shoulders/traps/forearms/33min cardio....work out was alrite and cardio...headaches are gone and today i haven’t felt starved at all and i still got a few more meals left today....seems to be breaking that initial hump

[rated_rko]

Day 10 Jan 17:216.5lb
Weighed myself 3 times this morning because i was in disbelieve...but im assuming its a combination of water weight and initial shock....but seems to be working just got in from my back/cardio 40min day and strengths exactly where it was last week...so this seems promising guys

[Talo]

what was your starting weight ? Have you had a refeed yet or were you going 2 weeks before your first one ?

[rated_rko]

started off at 224.5....i havent yet waiting till friday that will be 14 days in or might hold off until day 16

[High-Intensity]

Hi Dave just wondering if the diet for the 250lb is applicable for the person thats doing steroids. thank you in advance for your response

[Praetorian]

Hi Dave just wondering if the diet for the 250lb is applicable for the person thats doing steroids. thank you in advance for your response

Dave is not responding to this thread he does not post on here...the answer to your question is yes.
P

[jonathandd23]

when he says cheat meal, what kind of cheat meal is a better choice? Is he just talking like have some fruit or eggs n toast, or is KFC a good choice because aint to many carbs in there.

[Praetorian]

High carbs, lower fat ..e pancakes with syrup, waffles, all u can eat sushi, pasta

P

[jonathandd23]

in a way, i couldn't be more happier that you said that P.

[jonathandd23]

day 2 , getting rough, I'm starved, dem protein shakes aint doing it, but got my mindset on getting ripped.

[massabsamurai]

day 2 , getting rough, I'm starved, dem protein shakes aint doing it, but got my mindset on getting ripped.

Once you get through the 1st week-10 days, its a smooth ride until you hit pro-veg days/weeks but that's for another day lol... keep pushing buddy!

[jonathandd23]

day 4, still hungry, but i feel the starvation has set aside, my light headedness has gone away to, at had times at work, i stumbled standing up lol.

as for the diet, is it ok, if i sub say the lean protein meal with say 5 eggs/4 egg whites and skip the cashews? i did that today, i felt fuller, and i thought it might help reducing the trace carbs??

[bmc21]

Hello everyone,
Are the shakes supposed to be with water? Or is it ok to have them with almond milk or is that too high in carbs?

[jonathandd23]

hey, I've found if you get the good protein it tastes muuuuuuuuuch better in water, i bought the cheap stuff, and it was horrible. i guess certain brands have better tastes. but I've been going with water. (less cals for cutting + no carbs)

[Praetorian]

Hello everyone,
Are the shakes supposed to be with water? Or is it ok to have them with almond milk or is that too high in carbs?

Water!
P

[bmc21]

Thanks Praetorian and Jonathan

[jonathandd23]

man, i just have to tell some people who can understand what i went through today, at my work it was the managers birthday, so i guess people decided to bring the following:

2 bite brownies
Costco Cookies
Carrot Cake (with icing)
4 Dozen tim hortons donuts

I didn't eat any, but my god was it ever tough lol, mouth was just watering.

[jonathandd23]

so I've been craving salsa, is salsa ok to use on chicken, eggs etc?

[Praetorian]

Beware the carb content.

P

[jonathandd23]

hi guys, so I'm 1 month and 2 days in, add today i woke up dry heaving n felt really lethargic. Ive been dry heaving all day, i even pulled the trigger a few times and nothing comes out, tried having a diet soda to see if that would bring it out. Im not sure if this is just the flu, or maybe the diet? the only fibre I've gotten is from 1/2 cup almonds a day, 1 cup of broccoli or aspparagus. I did by some fibre supplement but i haven't been doing it religiously. (makes my shakes taste and texture weird)

I feel like maybe its my bowel movements, flu but my family is saying its my diet, to many eggs, to much meat, not enough carbs/fiber??

[walruszord]

Hi guys, I started this diet 3 days ago and it's going pretty well.

Couple of questions...
To those know, is it worth buying Dave's video about diet on his site?
A lot of the information about this diet seems to come from about 2008, have there been any recent major tweaks? Following the thread on bb.com it seems the parameters of the cheat meal kept changing.
Thanks

[Praetorian]

Cheat meal should be high carb ie pancakes, pasta etc. if you follow the diet and do cardo on a slow increasing scale you will drop tonnes of fat. Its all about consistency and not letting the body adapt.
P

[walruszord]

Cheat meal should be high carb ie pancakes, pasta etc. if you follow the diet and do cardo on a slow increasing scale you will drop tonnes of fat. Its all about consistency and not letting the body adapt.
P

Thanks praetorian, diet is working great so far, lost 3lbs the first week (already carb depleted from a different keto diet when I weighed myself). End of second week and I'm doing my carb meal tonight so I'll keep your advice in mind.

[Dann]

I am trying to build myself a plumbo Diet plan for a male at 160 lbs with 13 % BF .I know someone had posted here before but I cant seem to find it anymore .any help would be appreciated
Thanks

[Praetorian]

MEAL #1
4 whole eggs (make sure to buy OMEGA-3 EGGS from the supermarket. They contain virtually NO saturated fat and tons of good OMEGA-3 fats); add another 4 egg whites to this (they don?t need to be the Omega-3 ones; you can use liquid egg whites)

MEAL #2
SHAKE: 45g Whey Protein with 1 level tablespoon of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar)

MEAL #3
"Lean Protein Meal": 7oz chicken with 1/3-cup cashew nuts (almonds, or walnuts)

MEAL #4
SHAKE: 45g Whey Protein with 1 level tablespoons of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar added)

MEAL #5
"Fatty Protein Meal": 7oz Salmon, Swordfish, or RED MEAT with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 teaspoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar

MEAL #6
SHAKE: 45g Whey with 1 level tablespoon all natural peanut butter

P

[TT Eric]

Hey guys! Since I'm allergic to PB & nuts, I was looking into the nutritional profile of avocados and they seems to fit very well into the keto diet as replacement for nuts/PB.

Value per 50 g for an avocado :

Protein g 1.00
Total Fat g 7.33
Carbs g 4.27 (total including fibers)
Fibers g 3.35


Value for 15ml of PB :

Protein g 3.73
Total Fat g 7.81
Carbs g 3.38 (total including fibers)
Fiber g 1.3

Sounds like a viable replacement ?

Eric

[Praetorian]

Definitely...just measure and dont go overboard.

P

[TT Eric]

Is it just me or I find it weird that the meal #6 in the DP diet, we have an option of either a shake + PB or 4 eggs+whites ?

I mean the PB is about 8G of fat and the eggs 24G... 3x the fat.

Eric

[Praetorian]

Dave's diet is actually 1.4 Tbsp vs 4 egg yolks (whites have no fat) so so that about 15g vs 20g...closer. I prefer the shake before bed because I like to add fiber.

P

[TT Eric]

Hey guys, what do you think about doing activities like skiing while doing the Keto diet ? Since BPM are not very high and it's not too demanding physically, I'm guessing ketones are used and no neoglucogenesis is made...

Eric

[Praetorian]

I dont see an issue as long as you arent doing competitive slalom or something like that.

P

[TT Eric]

On DP's diet on the re-feed meal, how much gr of carbs do you guys aim for ?

Is there a minimum (gr per lbs of body weight) to reach to fully benefit of T4-T3 conversion ?

I'm asking because if I don't take junk like cookies and sugary alike, I hardly can reach 200gr of clean carbs. Last meal I was aiming for 300gr and dropped at ~160-170gr.

Eric

[Praetorian]

Aim for about 500g for males and 100g for females.

P

[TT Eric]

Aim for about 500g for males and 100g for females.

P

Sh! t!!!! It'S 100% impossible for me in one sitting, can I take the whole day to feed this in ? Like today, I took in 4 sushi rolls and was more then full.

Eric

[dngerfield]

Sh! t!!!! It'S 100% impossible for me in one sitting, can I take the whole day to feed this in ? Like today, I took in 4 sushi rolls and was more then full.

Eric

ha....wish i could get full on 4 sushi rolls....i'm more like at 4 dozen!

[Praetorian]

Example cheat meal, medium pizza, 4 garlic bread with cheese, half dozen donuts, three sandwiches with fresh italian bread and genoa salami and mortadella, i full hagen daz ice cream, litre of milk, plus cake or pie with the ice cream. Feeling like im pregnant!!


If i do all you can eat sushi it usually 25 salmon plus 25 white tuna.

P

[TT Eric]

Example cheat meal, medium pizza, 4 garlic bread with cheese, half dozen donuts, three sandwiches with fresh italian bread and genoa salami and mortadella, i full hagen daz ice cream, litre of milk, plus cake or pie with the ice cream. Feeling like im pregnant!!


If i do all you can eat sushi it usually 25 salmon plus 25 white tuna.

P

OMG!!!! This is insane, I can't believe you are able to shove this in!!!!

And 50 sushi rolls!!! I thought dngfield was kidding!

It's also a lot more fatter then I thought I could go, I was aiming for carbs and relatively low fat.

Believe it or not, I ate 4 sushi rolls (~20 pieces) at 18h00, then later around 22h00 I had one orange and one smoothie (raw milk + whey + berries + 1/2 avocado) and I woke up in the night with stomach pain!!!

2 months ago I decided to give up the sugar for health reason, not sure anymore if it's a good idea to do a diet sugar free...

Eric

[Praetorian]

People dont realize to get big i mean 300lbs big you need to eat a lot of food...NO i mean alot think again!

A good read by Dave Tate!

There was a time at the Old Westside gym where I couldn't gain weight to save my ****ing life.

There was this dude who trained there who could just put on weight like ****ing magic. He'd go from 198 to 308 and then to 275 and back down to 198. And he was never fat. It was amazing.

I finally asked him one day how he did it.

"You mean I never told you the secret to gaining weight? Come outside and I'll fill you in."

Now remember, we're at Westside Barbell. And this guy wants to go outside to talk so no one else can hear. Think about that for a minute. What the hell is he going to tell me? This must be some serious shit if we have to go outside, I thought.

So we get outside and he starts talking.

"For breakfast you need to eat four of those breakfast sandwiches from McDonalds. I don't care which ones you get, but make sure to get four. Order four hash browns, too. Now grab two packs of mayonnaise and put them on the hash browns and then slip them into the sandwiches. Squish that shit down and eat. That's your breakfast."

At this point I'm thinking this guy is nuts. But he's completely serious.

"For lunch you're gonna eat Chinese food. Now I don't want you eating that crappy stuff. You wanna get the stuff with MSG. None of that non-MSG bullshit. I don't care what you eat but you have to sit down and eat for at least 45 minutes straight. You can't let go of the fork. Eat until your eyes swell up and become slits and you start to look like the woman behind the counter."

"For dinner you're gonna order an extra-large pizza with everything on it. Literally everything. If you don't like sardines, don't put 'em on, but anything else that you like you have to load it on there. After you pay the delivery guy, I want you to take the pie to your coffee table, open that ****er up, and grab a bottle of oil. It can be olive oil, canola oil, whatever. Anything but motor oil. And I want you to pour that shit over the pie until half of the bottle is gone. Just soak the shit out of it."

"Now before you lay into it, I want you to sit on your couch and just stare at that ****er. I want you to understand that that pizza right there is keeping you from your goals."

This guy is in a zen-like state when he's talking about this.

"Now you're on the clock," he continues. "After 20 minutes your brain is going to tell you you're full. Don't listen to that shit. You have to try and eat as much of the pizza as you can before that 20-minute mark. Double up pieces if you have to. I'm telling you now, you're going to get three or four pieces in and you're gonna want to quit. You ****ing can't quit. You have to sit on that couch until every piece is done.

And if you can't finish it, don't you ever come back to me and tell me you can't gain weight. 'Cause I'm gonna tell you that you don't give a **** about getting bigger and you don't care how much you lift!"

Did I do it? Hell yeah. Started the next day and did it for two months. Went from 260 pounds to 297 pounds. And I didn't get much fatter. One of the hardest things I've ever done in my life, though.

P

[Talo]

PRAE - Do you pass out right after a savage meal like that , lol ? I remember bounding back 50 pieces of sushi and heating up so bad then getting knocked out for the best sleep of my life - haha.

[Praetorian]

Pretty much! LOL

P

[ISuckAtMath]

I started the Keto diet today and I must say it seems to be exactly what I was looking for. I always had a problem choking down carbs. My one of two questions, is there a more cost efficient substitute for the almonds? Secondly, can I substitute a shake in lieu of the 6 eggs that is outlined in meal #6? I am beginning the diet for the 250+ male. I am 6'5 and 330 lbs. I'm happy with my routines(the poundage I'm lifting is s**t) but that is to be expected after a long layoff. I do 3 on and 1 off. 30 minutes of cardio post workout.
Cheers.

[ISuckAtMath]

Is there a 2 for 1 sale on gear or what? Awfully quiet in here....just sayin. Merely an observation.:peace

[TT Eric]

Personally I don't use almonds, so I'm having a cup of (low carbs) vegetable and 1T of fat like olive oil or butter to replace them.

As far as eggs, I find it really boring to eat them everyday, so what I do I put the eggs in a shaker, add so water and a scoop of whey (for taste and extra proteins) and drink it, it's really fast and easy to take. Plus the eggs I'm using are from free running chicken (local organic farmer) so it's really nutrient dense, much more then a regular shake.

Eric

[ISuckAtMath]

Cheers Eric. Thank you for your time and quick response. I like the almond substitute. Those little f*****s are more expensive than red meat per pound! I don't have the bank account of a kardashian so I will go that route.

[ISuckAtMath]

Curious, has anybody gained weight or felt and looked bloated? I am damn near certain I am gaining weight in the midsection. I am doing the diet for the 250 lb man. I do an hour of cardio a day 7 days a week and weights with a three on one off approach. Am I expecting too much of a drastic change? On a positive my strength is going up wicked fast. Anything I should change?
Cheers.

[Praetorian]

How much do you weigh? You probably should be doing the diet for a 200lb man. Also there are a few misprints in Daves diet which have been corrected over time.

Post the diet you are doing and I can suggest corrections.

P

[ISuckAtMath]

Meal 1: 6 whole omega 3 eggs
Meal 2: 8 oz chicken with 1/2 cup raw almonds
Meal 3: 50 grams whey protein with 2 tablespoons all natural peanut butter
Meal 4: 8 oz salmon with 1 cup asparagus and 1 tablespoon macadamia nut oil
Meal 5: same as meal 3
Meal 6: 6 whole omega 3 eggs

The only change I made was adding one scoop of whey to the eggs and water then blended.

I am 6'5 and currently 320 lbs. I know..the trials and tribulations of a fat man. The reason behind me choosing the diet for a 250 lb man is that prior to an auto accident that was my weight. I have been lifting for 20 years prior to the crash and was happy with my gains. Somewhat vascular but still maintained some size. That is my goal. I am grateful for any thoughts and ideas.
Cheers.

[ISuckAtMath]

Can anyone elaborate on the changes to the keto diet? Praetorian, should I adjust to the diet for the 200 lb man?
Cheers.

[Praetorian]

Yes i would suggest changing to the 200lb man diet. The amount of nuts are actually 1/3 cup not 1/2 and the amount of protein is 7oz.

P

[TT Eric]

Found this: http://generationiron.com/five-foods-you-probably-didnt-know-kill-your-testosterone/2

Is this a new info ?

Since many people who do DP's diet include flax, if it's true, maybe we should re-consider using flax, any thoughts ?

Eric

[Praetorian]

No Daves diet does not include flax seed or flax seed oil as it is not a great souce of Omega 3...it needs to be converted and that doesnt happen efficiently. Use a good fish oil instead.

P

[TT Eric]

No Daves diet does not include flax seed or flax seed oil as it is not a great souce of Omega 3...it needs to be converted and that doesnt happen efficiently. Use a good fish oil instead.

P

Yes I know it's not a good source of Omega-3, it's not the reason I take it, I take it for the fibers! Even you said you were adding them to your shake for that same reason. I don't know for you, but for me the estrogenic effect is a new info, I won't continue taking grounded flax seed anymore.

Eric

[ISuckAtMath]

So this is my dilemma. I was on the keto diet for about 6 weeks. The problem I had was that I work a very physical job and it was kicking my ass! So I added 1\2 cup of brown rice to two of my meals. I feel better. Did I just bone myself or is that an acceptable amount to still drop weight. Cheers.

[ISuckAtMath]

The part I forgot to ask, in regards to the almond's in the diet. Can you roast the almond's? Just trying to change it up. Cheers

[Praetorian]

The nuts should be raw to get all the nutrients especially the fats. If you add carbs you are no loner in ketosis so the diet is no longer keto. This does not mean you wont keep dropping fat...what it does mean is that with your current work a keto diet is probably not ideal and you should have some carbs during work to get your through that part of the day. It doesnt have to be a tonne of carbs and with a bit you will continue to lose fat.

Just use the same diet but add some carbs during work...measure the amounts so you can track it and make adjustments.

P

[ISuckAtMath]

Cheers Praetorian as always. I eat my last real food meal approximately 3 hours prior to bed. That meal consists of 8 to 10 oz of chicken, spinach and 1/2 cup of brown rice. I am curious if the carb timing is too close to bedtime or not. I had success on the full on keto diet if anyone is considering such a change. Cheers

[Praetorian]

If you are dieting and looking for fat loss and keto is tough because of work then yes take in some carbs. But the timing of the carbs is important ie taking in carbs as fuel to be used so eating for what you are about to do. Why eat carbs and then go to bed you dont need carbs before bed you need them before you are exerting yourself at work. If you are trying to lose fat time the carbs to be used up during physical exertion and then the rest of the time use fat as fuel.

The keto diet is very successful because it works with the body not against it. I have used it on myself and many hundreds of clients all with great success. However it is a tool in an arsenal of many to be used when it is optimal.

P

[ISuckAtMath]

Thanks for confirming what I thought. My thought process was to drop the weight and retain muscle...or even gain some.
Cheers