Natural Vs ...

[Ritch]

Being natural is expensive, I know you all know that... I`d like to know your guys opinion on what would be better overall. My goal is to reduce shoulder and hip pain and feel more kick. So if you had the choice between these two stacks, which would you take.

Stack 1 is the natural route. What I wanted to use pre workout and some others during the day, just giving an idea of overall cost... I didn`t include stuff like vit. C, E magnesium, zinc and a B complex because I will always take these. I currently use all below exept l-leucine, piracetam, beta-alanine, choline, DMAE, and 1,3 dimethylamine. It`s the adding of these products that has me wondering if it`s worth spending this much and is the cost to benefit worth it. So new products and what I use now here`s what it would be:

-beta-alanine
-creatine
-l-leucine
-tyrosine
-taurine
-rhodiola
-piracetam
-choline
-DMAE
-1,3 dimethylamine ( haven`t used this yet but apparently gives one big kick.)
-caffeine
-ephedrine


Or just say **** it and use say 400-500mg of test and 300mg equipoise per week, arimidex when needed, and stay on this for a long time and be happy!

[Redz]

Natural is expensive? I dont think so. You still need supps and TONS of food while on. Also EQ at 300mg/week is a waste it is pretty weak stuff.

[waderow]

Natural is expensive? I dont think so. You still need supps and TONS of food while on. Also EQ at 300mg/week is a waste it is pretty weak stuff.

agreed. eq should be 600 min, and you should keep androgens higher as rule of thumb. so 750 test, 600 eq would makeyou shoulder feel better :)

[Seth]

^ I've heard that quite a couple of times. What the rational behind that?

[Redz]

Rational is it is a weak compound, most people report only small gains especailyl when not ran atleast 12-15 weeks. I love Test/Tren/and a DHT and will stick with it as the tempalte for all future cycles as the success I have had has been awesome. EQ is a mild steroid probably good for people afraid to go to deca or tren.

[waderow]

well, there was amad scientist named maxiter who explained it all to me in scientific mumbo jumbo, and the site containing the thread was elite sports training, the old gavin kane site. the site owner got roasted by the feds for selling hgh, and his site went down, along with it text books of info.
all i recall is that eq is best run around a gram or more actually. i have never gone higher then 900, and at 900, i felt like a million bucks. SHoulders were tight, vascularity was major, but had to watch blood pressure.

i will do a quick search and see if i can find any supporting logic.

so broken hearted that e.s.t. went down.

[tex]

both ways you posted are def not natural......nothing about bodybuilding is "natural".....you are talking steroid-free bodybuilding......

[Dk]

Lol natural is expensive?

Im still on every supplement i would be if i was on gear or not.

Gear doesnt give your body vitamins or glutamine or any of that stuff that is beneficial..

[gustavo77]

well, there was amad scientist named maxiter who explained it all to me in scientific mumbo jumbo, and the site containing the thread was elite sports training, the old gavin kane site. the site owner got roasted by the feds for selling hgh, and his site went down, along with it text books of info.
all i recall is that eq is best run around a gram or more actually. i have never gone higher then 900, and at 900, i felt like a million bucks. SHoulders were tight, vascularity was major, but had to watch blood pressure.

i will do a quick search and see if i can find any supporting logic.

so broken hearted that e.s.t. went down.

900-1000mg of EQ per week!! :eek: RBC count would be through the roof!!! Blood as thick as molasses.

[gustavo77]

Lol natural is expensive?

Im still on every supplement i would be if i was on gear or not.

Gear doesnt give your body vitamins or glutamine or any of that stuff that is beneficial..

Or food...that's what is so costly. Test is cheap, t-bone steak is not..lol..

[Led Hed]

Or food...that's what is so costly. Test is cheap, t-bone steak is not..lol..
Haha so true!

[trykillthis]

Yeah, Its the $250 a week on food that adds up fast.

[Kilburn]

as others have already said even on cycle i still take lots of sups:
creatine
beta alanine
multi
glucosamine
fish oil

etc etc etc

[Ritch]

Let`s just say I`m maxed out on what I can spend on supps and even food. There isn`t that much of a difference cash wise on what the gear would cost me vs the supply of everything listed supp wise providing something like 300mg of equipoise was effective with 400-500mg of test/week. What I`m asking myself now is which will make me look and feel better. The cycle or taking all these supps. May very well just do 600mg of test and ditch the equipoise if 300mg is not worth it. My joints aren`t that bad, just thought 300mg would help, if the consensus is that it`s not enough then I just won`t run it. Wouldn`t want to take more than 600-800mg gear total per week. If I need 600mg of equipoise for that to be effective then automatically there must over 600mg of test putting me way over a gram a week. For what little juice I`ve done this is way to advanced for me now.

[nisser]

300mg/ml definetely is worth it. I wouldn't even dream of going above 400 the first try.

People use way more gear than they really should nowadays.

[Ritch]

300mg/ml definetely is worth it. I wouldn't even dream of going above 400 the first try.

People use way more gear than they really should nowadays.

When you say 300mg/ml, do you mean 300mg of equi is worth it for joints or something else. It`s not my first try but it`s been 6 years since my last cycle which was 600mg test propionate with 100ml of winny every 2 days for 10 weeks. I just felt so great during that cycle, it`s how I`d like to feel now. Before that (3 years before) I`d done the 2-2 week on 4 week off approach as my first cycle ever doing a whopping 1000mg of propionate with 40mg of dbol per week. Even bridged for a few weeks with 40mg of dbol taken first thing in the morning. Not something I`d do again, my nuts didn`t shrink, just don`t think it`s a good idea.

I agree with what you say in regards to people dosing these days. I know alot of guys who if I were them I wouldn`t brag that I take over a gram of gear per week. But they`re my friends so I don`t want to insult them by downplaying their physiques. But if the fact remains that 300mg of equipoise dosen`t help with joint pain I`ll ditch it.

[Dk]

When you say 300mg/ml, do you mean 300mg of equi is worth it for joints or something else. It`s not my first try but it`s been 6 years since my last cycle which was 600mg test propionate with 100ml of winny every 2 days for 10 weeks. I just felt so great during that cycle, it`s how I`d like to feel now. Before that (3 years before) I`d done the 2-2 week on 4 week off approach as my first cycle ever doing a whopping 1000mg of propionate with 40mg of dbol per week. Even bridged for a few weeks with 40mg of dbol taken first thing in the morning. Not something I`d do again, my nuts didn`t shrink, just don`t think it`s a good idea.

I agree with what you say in regards to people dosing these days. I know alot of guys who if I were them I wouldn`t brag that I take over a gram of gear per week. But they`re my friends so I don`t want to insult them by downplaying their physiques. But if the fact remains that 300mg of equipoise dosen`t help with joint pain I`ll ditch it.

300mg of EQ would give you gains definatly.

but personally, if you said your budget allows you to pick either the gear OR the 'natural' stack.

i would take the best of both worlds and just run the 600mg of test and use the EQ money on other supplements like creatine, multis, glutamine, and all that business, whatever you want basically.

[Ritch]

300mg of EQ would give you gains definatly.

but personally, if you said your budget allows you to pick either the gear OR the 'natural' stack.

i would take the best of both worlds and just run the 600mg of test and use the EQ money on other supplements like creatine, multis, glutamine, and all that business, whatever you want basically.

Stull like creatine, B vitamines, C and E with magnesium and zinc will always be used. They`re just too inexpensive not to use. Will check what equi is going for, if it`s not too high, it could be 300mg of test and equi or just 600mg of test, with some M1T as a kickstart that I`ve had laying around for way to long.

[Dk]

Stull like creatine, B vitamines, C and E with magnesium and zinc will always be used. They`re just too inexpensive not to use. Will check what equi is going for, if it`s not too high, it could be 300mg of test and equi or just 600mg of test, with some M1T as a kickstart that I`ve had laying around for way to long.

well sh*t, as long as you have the basic supplements then, might as well buy the gear. It will be alot more beneficial then some nitric oxcide product that costs the same day for day as test does haha

[Ritch]

The natural stack was stuff I`m using now with a bunch of nootropics for enhanced mood and concentration, something I know test will enhance, with some new stuff like beta-alanine. Looked into cissus and adequan for joint health and it seems to be a no go, hence the equi which may or may not be included. Every year I do the same thing, bebate some big ass natural stack (which I agree with what another poster said about it not being natural) stroid free let`s say... The stack is always in the hundreds of dollars thinking this years supplements are the one`s that will make the big change on my physique. So this has to be the year to finally start cycling. Will do a nice long cycle to make up for lost time Ha ha, then think about coasting or pct many months later. Yeah I know, I seem to have the just **** it attitude now...

[nisser]

You're making shit too hard.

Most supplements are garbage and it's mostly in the head. Stick to whey after post-workout, creatine (if it works for you, it does jackshit for me) and pump the rest into meat and fish. Even fish oil is honestly sometimes a waste if your diet is rich in fish and nuts. You have 5-6 meals a day so no reason you can't eat fish 3-4 times a week. Many guys do boring shit like (chicken + rice 3x a day) and then they gorge on fish oils when they could just substitute one of their meals with salmon or trout fried in olive oil and be even better off.

The bodybuilders in the 60s and 70s had NONE of these shitty supplements that we get drowned in today and they looked ****ing fantastic.

[Houstonbc]

**** the eq and run test at 750 alone i dont think youd know you were on 300mg of eq i think it should be ran at 600+

[Ritch]

You're making shit too hard.

Most supplements are garbage and it's mostly in the head. Stick to whey after post-workout, creatine (if it works for you, it does jackshit for me) and pump the rest into meat and fish. Even fish oil is honestly sometimes a waste if your diet is rich in fish and nuts. You have 5-6 meals a day so no reason you can't eat fish 3-4 times a week. Many guys do boring shit like (chicken + rice 3x a day) and then they gorge on fish oils when they could just substitute one of their meals with salmon or trout fried in olive oil and be even better off.

The bodybuilders in the 60s and 70s had NONE of these shitty supplements that we get drowned in today and they looked ****ing fantastic.

That is so true. In pumping iron there`s lots of great physiques. And using everything I suggested supplement wise would be a major pain to dose and time on a daily baisis especially considering what would come of it vs just basic test.

[L3]

a major pain to dose and time on a daily baisis especially considering what would come of it vs just basic test.

+1 i used to make my own pre work out OTC vitamin and supp stack and it was quite tedious every morning separating all that shit into 5 baggies then i tried aas...

[kyle]

If it has been 6 years since you have done a cycle 400mg or 500mg of test per week will be enough for you to notice very nice gains. Doing more may be overkill. If you have joint problems gear will only make them worse because it will allow you to lift more. Deca and eq may help make your joints feel better on cycle but your still stressing your joints out and you may be even worse when your done.

[Ritch]

If it has been 6 years since you have done a cycle 400mg or 500mg of test per week will be enough for you to notice very nice gains. Doing more may be overkill. If you have joint problems gear will only make them worse because it will allow you to lift more. Deca and eq may help make your joints feel better on cycle but your still stressing your joints out and you may be even worse when your done.

The joint problems are from a shoulder that seems to be permantly slightly out of place, hip as well. Stretching and good warmups make for pain free workouts. It`s odd movements, I know which not to do I must avoid. 500-600mg of test is pretty much what I have in mind maybe some M1t to kickstart at 10mg a day for the first 3 weeks or so.

[physique]

man o man. good thing this isnt a rec drug board. should i use coke, or stick to pot?

if we use that same theme with your question everyone would tell ya to start using coke instead.

out of all the posts so far, everyone of them has pretty much said for u to use steroids.
sorry guys, but that isnt what these boards should be about.

I think he will feel better on gear yes, but at what cost? you have to take into account what sides he may or maynot get and if any of them might not be reversible. no one can say for sure what might happen if he starts using gear.

at least with the natural(i use that word loosely) way. He is using stuff that has science behind it (yes steroids do too), and he isnt risking his health. He might be improving it.

Ritch, i think you need to decide for yourself what YOU want to do. DEon't let anyone nudge you in the direction YOU Yourself is unsure of.

[Dk]

man o man. good thing this isnt a rec drug board. should i use coke, or stick to pot?

if we use that same theme with your question everyone would tell ya to start using coke instead.

out of all the posts so far, everyone of them has pretty much said for u to use steroids.
sorry guys, but that isnt what these boards should be about.

I think he will feel better on gear yes, but at what cost? you have to take into account what sides he may or maynot get and if any of them might not be reversible. no one can say for sure what might happen if he starts using gear.

at least with the natural(i use that word loosely) way. He is using stuff that has science behind it (yes steroids do too), and he isnt risking his health. He might be improving it.

Ritch, i think you need to decide for yourself what YOU want to do. DEon't let anyone nudge you in the direction YOU Yourself is unsure of.

i dont even know how to contradict this haha. Its a good post.

so ill just stick to this "nice tits"

[tex]

**** coke.....man up and shoot that shit!

[icey_boi]

well, there was amad scientist named maxiter who explained it all to me in scientific mumbo jumbo, and the site containing the thread was elite sports training, the old gavin kane site. the site owner got roasted by the feds for selling hgh, and his site went down, along with it text books of info.
all i recall is that eq is best run around a gram or more actually. i have never gone higher then 900, and at 900, i felt like a million bucks. SHoulders were tight, vascularity was major, but had to watch blood pressure.

i will do a quick search and see if i can find any supporting logic.

so broken hearted that e.s.t. went down.

maxiter deffo has some very new and exciting info all the time. a mad scientest he is!